This Weekend's Fixtures & Newcastle v West Ham (23/24/25 Nov.)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saturday, 23rd November 2024
Leicester City v Chelsea, 12:30 https://i.imgur.com/tM2pRxb.png
Arsenal v Nottingham Forest, 15:00
Aston Villa v Crystal Palace, 15:00
Bournemouth v Brighton & Hove Albion, 15:00
Everton v Brentford, 15:00
Fulham v Wolverhampton Wanderers, 15:00
Manchester City v Tottenham Hotspur, 17:30 https://i.imgur.com/htwHZ0c.jpg

Sunday, 24th November 2024
Southampton v Liverpool, 14:00 https://i.imgur.com/htwHZ0c.jpg
Ipswich Town v Manchester United, 16:30 https://i.imgur.com/htwHZ0c.jpg

Monday, 25th November 2024
Newcastle United v West Ham United, 20:00 https://i.imgur.com/htwHZ0c.jpg

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hopefully wins for Leicester, Palace, Bournemouth, Southampton, Ipswich and West Ham

And hopefully a score draw between City and Spurs

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Woeful strike from Joao Felix.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That was better but still over.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Leicester 0-1 Chelsea, Jackson

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What was Faes doing through that whole phase of play?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How was that not a red for Ndidi? Studs all over the ankle of Palmer.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a miss from Ndidi.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Briliant block by Madueke to deny Palmer!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bournemouth: Arrizabalaga, Kerkez, Cook, Senesi, Evanilson, Adams, Smith, Tavernier, Kluivert, Semenyo, Zabarnyi.
Subs: Travers, Huijsen, Brooks, Ouattara, Hill, Unal, Billing, Aarons, Kinsey.

Brighton: Verbruggen, Igor, Pedro, Rutter, Welbeck, Baleba, Mitoma, Ayari, Van Hecke, Estupinan, Veltman.
Subs: Steele, Gruda, Encisco, Adingra, Wieffer, Ferguson, O'Riley, McConville, Samuels.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Aston Villa: Martinez, Bogard, Diego Carlos, Pau Torres, Maatsen, McGinn, Tielemans, Barkley, Bailey, Rogers, Watkins.
Subs: Olsen, Cash, Mings, Digne, Nedeljkovic, Broggio, Buendia, Philogene, Duran.

Crystal Palace: Henderson, Munoz, Lacroix, Chalobah, Guehi, Mitchell, Hughes, Devenny, Doucoure, Mateta, Sarr.
Subs: Turner, Matthews, Ward, Lerma, Schlupp, Clyne, Richards, Kporha, Agbinone.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Everton: Pickford, Young, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, Gueye, Doucoure, Lindstrom, Ndiaye, McNeil, Calvert-Lewin.
Subs: Virginia, Patterson, Keane, Mangala, Harrison, Beto, O'Brien, Armstrong, Bates.

Brentford: Flekken, Van den Berg, Collins, Pinnock, Janelt, Norgaard, Jensen, Damsgaard, Lewis-Potter, Mbeumo, Wissa.
Subs: Valdimarsson, Schade, Thiago, Carvalho, Mee, Yarmoliuk, Konak, Roerslev, Maghoma.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-2 Chelsea, Enzo Fernandes.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Leicester 1-2 Chelsea, Ayew pelanty.

But it's so late on.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Leicester seem to recognise this, as making no effort to push for unlikely equaliser

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-2 FT.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bournemouth 0-1 Brighton, Joao Pedro.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Villa 0-1 Palace, Sarr.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fulham 1-0 Wolves, Iwobi.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fulham 1-1 Wolves, Cunha.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Villa 1-1 Palace, Watkins.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Norgaard sent off for Brentford.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Villa have a pel which is saved

Evanilson had a goal for Bournemouth chalked off for offside

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Henderson saves off Tielemans pelanty.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And palace go down the other end and score :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Villa 1-2 Palace, Devenny!

WTF. :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bournemouth 0-2 Brighton, Mitoma.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fulham 1-2 Wolves, Joao Gomes.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Baleba sent off for for Brighton!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Villa 2-2 Palace, Barkley.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fulham 1-3 Wolves, Cunha with his second!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bournemouth 1-2 Brighton, Brooks.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fulham 1-4 Wolves, Guedes. WTF.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fulham 1-4 Wolves, Guedes. WTF.

Fulham were basically down to ten men for the last 10-15 minutes because of injury and having used all their subs

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bissouma booked after 15 seconds

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a chance for Haaland.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Spurs take the lead, Maddison

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 Maddison!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Live stats around the hoardings. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Great effort from Son and Ederson saves.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-2 Maddison again, holy shit.

[Marc Overmars]

Fuck sake, City’s reign of terror is over isn’t it while we’ve left ourselves with a hell of a lot to do.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Could be on for three defeats in a row in the league and we still won't be above them. :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Fuck sake, City’s reign of terror is over isn’t it while we’ve left ourselves with a hell of a lot to do.

Winning 5 titles in a row was never going to happen....I mean this isn't the Scottish League or something.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Porro getting bored out there.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-2 HT.

[Letters]

Fuck sake, City’s reign of terror is over isn’t it while we’ve left ourselves with a hell of a lot to do.

It would be massively frustrating if City do finally drop off and Liverpool win it instead of us :doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool and City playing next week at Anfield, would be ironic if City win


As I’ve continually said too early in the season to be worrying too much about the league, we do absolutely need to go on a winning run, but I think we have fixtures that are amenable to that goal coming up.


We don’t travel outside of London in the league until January now

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Stones hauled off for Ake at HT.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-3 Porro. Holy shit.

[Marc Overmars]

Mad how Spurs can lose to Palace and Ipswich then do this.

[Letters]

:lol:

I doubt even Spurs can Spurs this up

[Letters]

Mad how Spurs can lose to Palace and Ipswich then do this.
They’re definitely a top 6 side, knocking on the door of Top 4.
Which means they’re going to win a fair number of games but have the odd brainfart where they get a hilarious result like vs Ipswich

[Marc Overmars]

They’re definitely a top 6 side, knocking on the door of Top 4.
Which means they’re going to win a fair number of games but have the odd brainfart where they get a hilarious result like vs Ipswich

I think they’re a very good team tbf but just lack a bit of needle. They’ve been decent in near enough every game they’ve played but have also been punished for momentary lapses of Spursiness.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-4 Johnson. :blink:

[Marc Overmars]

Pep. :haha:

Should have left.

[HCZ_Reborn]

4-0 Brennan Johnson

Whilst I didn’t expect so spectacular a collapse, I would like to point out that I did foresee that City would struggle massively without Rodri, that and the wins that they were getting before the five defeats in a row, belied how poorly they were playing

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man City 0-4 Tottenham, FT.

WTF. :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gary Neville stating that “it’s more than just Rodri”

Except it isn’t

He was the adhesive that kept that team together. Stones, Walker, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan…they all look past it, and because of financial sustainability rules it’s been near on impossible to replace them

[Niall_Quinn]

Well I have to say it, that was a very good performance by the spuds. As always, just play at pace and play directly and modern day defenders don't have a clue how to counter it. Of course the officials just letting the game play out was a huge factor. I suspect we'd have beaten them by a similar scoreline had the officials not decided the result.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gary Neville stating that “it’s more than just Rodri”

Except it isn’t

He was the adhesive that kept that team together. Stones, Walker, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan…they all look past it, and because of financial sustainability rules it’s been near on impossible to replace them

You mean if Rodri had played then the gypo defence would have been a yard quicker and wouldn't have collapsed every time the spuds hit them with direct play? I guess Rodri is so good he plays in 5 positions. They can keep making the Rodri excuse all they want to, and it's true he's a big miss in terms of their stunningly boring tippety tap bullshit that kills every game he plays in with his co-bullshitter De Brown. They are effective, no doubt, but surely one of the most boring pairs since Iniesta and Xavi sucked the joy out of the game. Two factors most influenced the result, true, Rodri and De Brown's BS, but also the ref just playing it down the line.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well I have to say it, that was a very good performance by the spuds. As always, just play at pace and play directly and modern day defenders don't have a clue how to counter it. Of course the officials just letting the game play out was a huge factor. I suspect we'd have beaten them by a similar scoreline had the officials not decided the result.

Don’t know if scoreline would have been similar, but think we would have won with 11 men for sure

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Difficult to see Citeh doing anything to prevent Liverpool on the transition next weekend.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Difficult to see Citeh doing anything to prevent Liverpool on the transition next weekend.

Maybe, I think most people wouldn’t have stuck much money on Spurs winning 4-0 tonight and Liverpool have already lost at home to Forest this season.

Dont get me wrong, Liverpool will be the favourites and city have a pretty ordinary record at Anfield, but stranger things have happened

[Mac76]

Citeh got junked by a team which wins well one week and gets trashed the next

Given what happened at the end of last season, there'd be a lovely irony if we pubbed the league now with Citeh just a point or two behind and Spuds fans knowing they made it happen ...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Maybe, I think most people wouldn’t have stuck much money on Spurs winning 4-0 tonight and Liverpool have already lost at home to Forest this season.

Dont get me wrong, Liverpool will be the favourites and city have a pretty ordinary record at Anfield, but stranger things have happened

0-4 sure, nobody predicted that but I didn't think Tottenham would lose. They attack in a way Man City can't handle right now and I see that from Liverpool too.

[HCZ_Reborn]

0-4 sure, nobody predicted that but I didn't think Tottenham would lose. They attack in a way Man City can't handle right now and I see that from Liverpool too.

Spurs lost to Ipswich. Sure I see what you’re saying about City being vulnerable, but Spurs had two of their first choice defenders out. Even without Rodri, if City were not through the floor in form and confidence they could have mauled Spurs

[HCZ_Reborn]

Armstrong goes down from challenge from Konate

No Pel given, could have been just outside the box

[HCZ_Reborn]

1-0 Liverpool

Hungarian copy and paste

Le sigh….

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That should be a pel.

[HCZ_Reborn]

1-1 Saints Pel

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pel is saved but 1-1 anyway!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-1 Fernandes!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why isn't that a foul against Kelleher?

[HCZ_Reborn]

2-2 Salah

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How has that gone over? :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

2-3 Salah pel

[Niall_Quinn]

Never a pen in a million years. Ball flies up from the chest and onto the arm, the defender would have to remove his arm to prevent that. That's a disgrace.

The diving bloke makes it 2-3 to the scousers from the resulting (non) pen.

[Niall_Quinn]

And that IS a pen for Soton, but not given. No attempt whatsoever to play the ball, instead he shoulders the opponent over in the box. What ever happened to, "Ooooh, there's definitely contact!"

[Letters]

2-3 Salah pel

:rolleyes:

If they beat City next week then that might be it done.
Balls.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:rolleyes:

If they beat City next week then that might be it done.
Balls.

Why?

Even after that they’d still have to spurs, Chelsea, Villa, city away, got to play us again etc.

The fact is if city are like how they were last night, Liverpool beating them would prove nothing

Their December fixtures are tough

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we are nine points behind them come January 1st fine I’ll say it will be difficult to catch them

Five ? Yeah I’d say that’s easily doable given the respective fixtures

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Steve Cooper sacked. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Steve Cooper sacked. :lol:

Yeah just saw that, ridiculously harsh (in my view). What exactly are they expecting. They’ve got a 37 year old Vardy leading the line…as well as a few other mediocres and ageing players because they simply don’t have the money to invest (well they do but not without getting done over by financial sustainability rules)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cooper been treated harshly by both Forest and Leicester

I don’t think he’s a top manager but he’s a reasonably decent one.

[Letters]

Why?
They'd be 9 points above us at worst, 11 above City. It's just starting to feel a long way back.
I take the point that it's still relatively early and Liverpool have to play some tough games - but City is one of those (well, in normal times - the run they've been on of late is both baffling and hilarious). If they win that one then you'd have to say it's another test past - they've already played us at our place and got a good point. It was during our wobble admittedly but still, they just keep passing these tests.
We both thought Mac had gone mad suggesting they'd be contenders but I don't think either of us would have predicted they'd be where they are right now. Maybe we were wrong.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They'd be 9 points above us at worst, 11 above City. It's just starting to feel a long way back.
I take the point that it's still relatively early and Liverpool have to play some tough games - but City is one of those (well, in normal times - the run they've been on of late is both baffling and hilarious). If they win that one then you'd have to say it's another test past - they've already played us at our place and got a good point. It was during our wobble admittedly but still, they just keep passing these tests.
We both thought Mac had gone mad suggesting they'd be contenders but I don't think either of us would have predicted they'd be where they are right now. Maybe we were wrong.


The reason they are nine points clear is because they’ve had by far the easiest fixtures. The only tough fixture they’ve had was us away. Southampton had to shoot themselves in the foot twice and have a harsh penalty awarded against them for them to win.

The only result that surprised me was them losing at home to Forest. When we’ve seen City lose three in a row (yes they are in a bit of a tail spin) I simply cannot see how anyone can look at a 9 point gap and also look at Liverpool who for me in terms of performance are less impressive than last season and think it’s insurmountable. I did not expect us to be 9 points behind them, because I didn’t expect us to lose to Bournemouth or Newcastle.


We have statistically the easiest run in to the new year, Liverpool one of the hardest. So as I say, we shall see where we are January 1st.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ipswich equalise through one of our ex academy players

[Mac76]

Cooper been treated harshly by both Forest and Leicester

I don’t think he’s a top manager but he’s a reasonably decent one.

He's just such a miserable sod, I'd be suicidal if he was the manager of my club

[Letters]

So as I say, we shall see where we are January 1st.
Which is pretty much my position.
But I don't believe that either of us thought Liverpool would have had a start to the season this good, easy run or not. You keep making excuses for why they keep getting results. You never seem to stop and consider you may have underestimated them.

[dazthegooner]

Ipswich equalise through one of our ex academy players

Wasn’t he the one who left us for Chelsea because he thought he’d get first team football there sooner? It so see it went well for him :unsure:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which is pretty much my position.
But I don't believe that either of us thought Liverpool would have had a start to the season this good, easy run or not. You keep making excuses for why they keep getting results. You never seem to stop and consider you may have underestimated them.

If I thought I’d underestimated them I’d have said so. I repeat I don’t think they’ve won any games that I wouldn’t have expected them too. If they don’t fall away when the truly hard games come fair enough, but at the moment them being where they are is a reflection on us and city more than anything. I think we should have beaten them, and at least seven times out of ten we would have done.


They’ve beaten Ipswich, United, Wolves, Palace and Southampton away from home. I really don’t know what there is to add other than that

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wasn’t he the one who left us for Chelsea because he thought he’d get first team football there sooner? It so see it went well for him :unsure:

Yep that’s him

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's just such a miserable sod, I'd be suicidal if he was the manager of my club

Is he? Not saying he’s not but can’t really say because don’t really watch post match interviews

I think he has one of those miserable faces, a bit like basset hounds look sad (although in my experience they are the most contented and laid back breed of dogs you could meet)

[Letters]

If I thought I’d underestimated them I’d have said so
Well obviously, I just wonder why you haven’t considered that.
Or maybe you have and rejected the notion.

I’m not disputing they’ve had a lot of games they “should” win, but pretty much all sides drop points in those sorts of games here and there. They just haven’t. Yet. They might start to, but I keep thinking that and they just keep winning. Which is starting to make me think I may have misjudged them and we should take them more seriously as contenders.

But I am also on board with the “let’s see where we are at the turn of the year” thesis.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ve watched a lot of their games this season and I think in a lot of them, they’ve been lucky.

They haven’t exactly been pummelling other teams, in their last five wins they’ve only won once by a margin of more than one goal. They’ve relied on the award of a penalty for three of those games.

The other thing i will concede that has surprised me is that they’ve only conceded 8 goals, and kept six clean sheets. That surprise is mainly because they aren’t actually that good defensively….they were all over the place against us.

Could it be that this a Leicester City type season where they make the most of all the other teams shooting themselves in the foot? Possibly

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway 1-1 full time

Amorim learning that you can’t polish a turd

[Mac76]

Amorim learning that you can’t polish a turd

one game in...

meanwhile apparently 12 games isn't enough to say Liverpool are genuine title contenders

[HCZ_Reborn]

one game in...

meanwhile apparently 12 games isn't enough to say Liverpool are genuine title contenders

It’s been more than one game that has showcased that United have a great many average players, and no matter how innovative a coach is or isn’t….Gold doesn’t come from base metal, and that if Amorim is to succeed there he will need to overhaul the team.

And no 12 games isn’t enough when you look at the games they have been played. But if they get through the December minefield and still have their lead mainly intact then yeah I expect we can call them contenders then, and of course it’s possible….many of us were waiting for the other shoe to drop with Leicester City and it didn’t happen.

And should they win the league that should spell the end for Arteta, losing to Man City is one thing….losing to an inferior Liverpool team which is relying heavily on ageing stars like Salah and Van Dijk is another thing

[WMUG]

many of us were waiting for the other shoe to drop with Leicester City

I still am, frankly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I still am, frankly.

They got relegated, what more do you want? :lol:

[Letters]

And no 12 games isn’t enough when you look at the games they have been played.
You keep saying stuff like this and that they're just being lucky. They've won 10 out of 12 games, the only games they've dropped points in are a baffling loss to Forest and a pretty creditable result against us. Even if most of the others are games they "should" win, most teams drop points here and there in games like that. They can't keep on being lucky, there does seem to be more about this team than I thought. I still think you're clinging on to your pre-season thesis longer than makes sense.


And should they win the league that should spell the end for Arteta, losing to Man City is one thing….losing to an inferior Liverpool team which is relying heavily on ageing stars like Salah and Van Dijk is another thing
If they end up as champions then they're not inferior, you don't just fluke a title. Although I'd agree that should be the end for Arteta, his job was to make us champions, he's been allowed to invest heavily to get us there. I don't blame him for last season but if it's Liverpool and not us who take advantage if City do have their worst season in years then I agree he should go.

[Letters]

Man Utd

P12 W4 D4 L4 F13 A13

:lol:

[WMUG]

They got relegated, what more do you want? :lol:

I just mean that part of my brain still can't compute the idea of them actually winning the league, even now.

Even though it happened, it still isn't going to happen.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You keep saying stuff like this and that they're just being lucky. They've won 10 out of 12 games, the only games they've dropped points in are a baffling loss to Forest and a pretty creditable result against us. Even if most of the others are games they "should" win, most teams drop points here and there in games like that. They can't keep on being lucky, there does seem to be more about this team than I thought. I still think you're clinging on to your pre-season thesis longer than makes sense.


If they end up as champions then they're not inferior, you don't just fluke a title. Although I'd agree that should be the end for Arteta, his job was to make us champions, he's been allowed to invest heavily to get us there. I don't blame him for last season but if it's Liverpool and not us who take advantage if City do have their worst season in years then I agree he should go.

The situation for me is analogous to us two seasons ago, I felt it was too early after 12 games then to call us contenders and guess what we had exactly the same points as Liverpool do now.


I’m still of the view that it’s just as likely that they will drop off and be battling for top four within a few months (but that depends as much on us and city as it does them) and I don’t just say that because “well they haven’t played anyone yet” it’s because they genuinely don’t look that good. They in fact looked a hell of a lot better last season at this point despite in terms of points being four points better off now.

It’s not always the case that the team with the best players win the league. Leicester had a tremendous season but it’s fair to say in terms of playing personnel that there were half a dozen teams better than them. With Liverpool this season it’s at least two teams

I really don’t get this need to browbeat on your part, if you go back far enough I even said that Liverpool might look like they were in contention because of how easy their fixtures were. But if we hadn’t dropped ten points in four games, we wouldn’t be having this debate now.

I can’t tell you something that I don’t feel, I don’t feel I’ve underestimated Liverpool….and I genuinely feel other people are jumping the gun out of panic.


December is an absolute ball breaker for them, if they still have the same advantage over us that they have now a month later, they will probably win the thing. If they are four-five points clear they are likely contenders (but with the caveat that I’m confident of overhauling them). Less than four-five points….even with City’s hemorrhaging…they could struggle for top four because…arguably even Chelsea are in the mix

[HCZ_Reborn]

I just mean that part of my brain still can't compute the idea of them actually winning the league, even now.

Even though it happened, it still isn't going to happen.

Yes I know what you meant, twas a joke

And yes it was a complete inversion of footballing gravity

[Marc Overmars]

I think there will be a bit of a course correction once Liverpool have had their really tricky away days however my main worry is that we’ve left ourselves too much to do. We need to win at least 21 of the remaining 26 fixtures to hit 85 points if we’re thinking the bar is lower this season.

So a couple more dud results and I think we’re finished. The run we went on from January last season pretty much has to start a month earlier now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think there will be a bit of a course correction once Liverpool have had their really tricky away days however my main worry is that we’ve left ourselves too much to do. We need to win at least 21 of the remaining 26 fixtures to hit 85 points if we’re thinking the bar is lower this season.

So a couple more dud results and I think we’re finished. The run we went on from January last season pretty much has to start a month earlier now.

If we won every game from now till the end of the season that would give us 100 points. And therefore it’s fair to say we do have a little bit of room if as you say we should finish with minimum of 85 points

[Letters]

The situation for me is analogous to us two seasons ago, I felt it was too early after 12 games then to call us contenders and guess what we had exactly the same points as Liverpool do now.
That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.


I really don’t get this need to browbeat on your part
I'm just interested how you seem to be sticking to your guns and don't seem to be re-evaluating your position as they just keep winning. You can't keep on dismissing it as luck.
And I think we would still be having this debate were we closer to them because I don't think either of us expected them to go off like a train like this.

But let's see where we all are at the turn of the year - that is something we agree on.

[WMUG]

That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.



To make the opposite point, that "dodgy patch" was the part of the season that contained all our hardest fixtures.

I made the point before the season even started that if we made top 4 that year, it'd look like we'd bottled a title race.

Now granted we did do better than anybody expected, but we were always in a bit of a false position for most of the campaign for that reason.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.


I'm just interested how you seem to be sticking to your guns and don't seem to be re-evaluating your position as they just keep winning. You can't keep on dismissing it as luck.
And I think we would still be having this debate were we closer to them because I don't think either of us expected them to go off like a train like this.

But let's see where we all are at the turn of the year - that is something we agree on.


Except I reject your characterisation, they haven’t gone off like a train. If they’d won six or seven games in a row in the league that’s one thing but they haven’t. Their biggest winning streak in the premier league is four games, and City won their first four games, and we are all straining our necks to view a giant car wreck at this moment in time

And I use that because you especially were at pains to tell me how it was City we would struggle catching up to because of their propensity to go into beast mode, and frankly I knew different….i didn’t predict that the calamity would be this spectacular but I could see they were headed for trouble.


Are Liverpool headed for trouble? I don’t know….certainly not in the same way City have been. But I think it’s fair to say when you’re not absolutely tanking your opponents and when decisions have gone for them that clearly haven’t gone for us, it’s fair to say there’s no small amount of luck involved. Even the best teams need a bit of luck so I’m not knocking them for that, but I’m sorry I’m not seeing what you are….they haven’t particularly surprised me because i was aware of what their fixtures were back in June, and I similarly saw City winning easy games even after they lost Rodri - Beating Fulham, Wolves and Southampton.

Them being nine points clear of us is far more reflective of the fact that we didn’t win a single game in four. The last time that happened was when the wheels fell of our title challenge in 2023. You be surprised if you want to, I keep telling you I’m not nor am I particularly impressed.

I’ll be impressed if they beat Newcastle, Everton, Spurs and West Ham away or even get eight points from those fixtures in December. Or if they lose Salah and Van Dijk and they don’t utterly implode.

I really don’t know what else to tell you, I’ve done my level best to fill in the gaps for you. There’s nothing I can say to you that will change your mind that I’m not just being stubborn.

[Letters]

To make the opposite point, that "dodgy patch" was the part of the season that contained all our hardest fixtures.

I made the point before the season even started that if we made top 4 that year, it'd look like we'd bottled a title race.

Now granted we did do better than anybody expected, but we were always in a bit of a false position for most of the campaign for that reason.

I remember at the time I was concerned about the tough run in. A mate said to me "everyone has to play everyone twice". Which is obviously true, but they don't all play them in the same order and that can have an effect.

[Marc Overmars]

To be honest apart from Spurs away I would expect them to win most of their December fixtures. Barcodes away is obviously tough on paper but it’s also an opponent Liverpool have got the better of for years. I don’t remember the last time Newcastle beat them that’s for sure and I think there’s been very few draws in that time too. As for Neverton, well they’re absolutely shit and that derby has been a joke for years. I’d wager the game at Goodison last season was an outlier more than anything.

Let’s see anyway, I don’t anticipate much of a drop off from them at least until new year. It’s more us I’m bothered with, we need to win and keep winning to keep the gap respectable at the very least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

To be honest apart from Spurs away I would expect them to win most of their December fixtures. Barcodes away is obviously tough on paper but it’s also an opponent Liverpool have got the better off for years. I don’t remember the last time Newcastle beat them that’s for sure and I think there’s been very few draws in that time too. As for Neverton, well they’re absolutely shit and that derby has been a joke for years. I’d wager the game at Goodison last season was an outlier more than anything.

Let’s see anyway, I don’t anticipate much of a drop off from them at least until new year. It’s more us I’m bothered with, we need to win pretty much every game and if we’re close enough come January then it’s game on.

I think previous form goes out the window. These records were Klopp’s achievements. And whilst I’m not knocking the bald Dutchman because he did inherit this team and they’ve lost a lot of their top players and replaced them with players that aren’t as good…..this Liverpool side is no where near as formidable as the Klopp team.


Liverpool could for sure do well in these fixtures, but they’d have to show a solidity and guile that hitherto I’ve not really seen. Spurs are all over the place but at their best they could absolutely destroy that Liverpool defence. Everton are shit but we’ve found derby days tough even when Spurs were flirting with relegation….going to Goodison park is never easy and Liverpool have won twice there in the last ten league encounters. West Ham can be a bit of a strange fixture for Liverpool

The point is though these fixtures are far tougher than anything they’ve previously had to deal with away from home. We could barely beat war torn Shaktah when we played Liverpool otherwise we’d have torn them to shreds, other than that who have they beaten away from home? United ? :lol: United is everyone’s bitch currently


We do need to win most if not all the games in that run, but these are games we should be winning. West Ham (a), United (h), Fulham (a), Everton (h), Palace (a), Ipswich (h).


Frankly if we aren’t getting as near to 18 points as possible, we have no business challenging to begin with and that’s got nothing to do with what Liverpool are or are not doing

[Letters]

Except I reject your characterisation, they haven’t gone off like a train.
31 points out of 36 :shrug:


And I use that because you especially were at pains to tell me how it was City we would struggle catching up to because of their propensity to go into beast mode, and frankly I knew different….i didn’t predict that the calamity would be this spectacular but I could see they were headed for trouble.
You didn't "know" anything :lol:
Behave yourself. You make wrong predictions all the time about football, as do I, as do we all. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard for your foresight when you get one right.


I’m sorry I’m not seeing what you are
I famously don't watch much football so I'm not really seeing anything, but you can't argue with their results. I don't buy it's just dumb luck by now. That said, I do accept their fixtures have been kind so far which does put them in a bit of a false position. But while you may have seen a fixture like Southampton vs Liverpool and expect Liverpool to win it, you expect teams to drop points here and there in games they "should" win, and they just haven't so far. And the fact they got a point at our place tells me there's something about them. I am starting to take the more seriously. But anyway, as we keep saying, let's see where we all are at the turn of the year.


Them being nine points clear of us is far more reflective of the fact that we didn’t win a single game in four.
This is certainly true - I was a little alarmed to note we've only won half our games so far, not ideal for a side with title pretentions.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know the Sun will come up tomorrow, experience tells me that more likely than not it will. Foreknowledge of any kind is an exercise in finite probability. If you see smoke rising from a dumpster, it’s possible there’s another explanation but 999 times out of a 1000 you’ve got yourself a bin fire.

I’m not patting myself on the back, I’m doing the opposite I’m saying City’s travails were rather all too easy to foresee.


I don’t know that Liverpool will come off the rails, and of course it’s certainly in my interest that they do so. But I don’t look at them and think “where are they going to drop points?”. I thought yesterday was conceivable that they’d drop points….not because I think Southampton are anything but terrible but as you’ve pointed out yourself there’s a difference between a fixture you should win on paper and how it plays out.

That’s why I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because the performances have been average. Honestly If you were to go away and watch Liverpool’s matches (not even all of them, just say the last four or five) don’t have to watch beginning to end…Match of the Day highlights will suffice and you come back and tell me this is a team that looks like likely league winners, who haven’t massively relied on luck….then I would actually take your view more seriously than I do now

[Marc Overmars]

Frankly if we aren’t getting as near to 18 points as possible, we have no business challenging to begin with and that’s got nothing to do with what Liverpool are or are not doing

Agreed, the trouble is I’ve seen some vulnerabilities in us that weren’t there last season, so I’m unsure if we will get those 18 points or at least 16.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agreed, the trouble is I’ve seen some vulnerabilities in us that weren’t there last season, so I’m unsure if we will get those 18 points or at least 16.

See this is where I’m in disagreement with both yourself and a lot of others, in that I’ve not seen vulnerabilities that weren’t there last season.

The first three games of last season were a complete and utter shit fest, up until January there had only been three away games in ten where we’d scored more than one goal. December of last year was a complete and utter car crash (lost three league games in one month)


Apart from one being at lunchtime, and one being in the evening there was almost no difference in the Newcastle away fixture for example. Absolutely toothless in both.


The Chelsea fixture? I think people don’t realise just how bad we were in the game in 2023 despite coming from two nil down


We won six games from 12 in the period from mid October until the end of the year (just like we have in 12 games now) we conceded 14 goals and scored the same amount of goals we scored in our first 12 games this time around - 21

[Letters]

as you’ve pointed out yourself there’s a difference between a fixture you should win on paper and how it plays out.
Indeed. But this is why I'm raising an eyebrow at you continuing to call their performances average. Average performances yield average results...on average.
Of course there will be times you play poorly and win, or play well and lose. That's football. But if you keep putting in average performances then you're not going to keep on winning and they just...do. Easy fixtures or no, I can't believe it can be entirely luck. There does seem to be something about them this season. Whether they'll maintain this...it seems unlikely, but I keep thinking that. Hopefully December will see them drop enough points and we can go on a run and haul them in a bit.
You use the word "average" a lot by the way - elsewhere you chastised someone else for using it because average compared with what?

[Letters]

See this is where I’m in disagreement with both yourself and a lot of others, in that I’ve not seen vulnerabilities that weren’t there last season.
Our defence doesn't feel as solid, I think that's the main thing for me. Last season we shut up shop and saw games out, this year we're struggling to keep clean sheets.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Indeed. But this is why I'm raising an eyebrow at you continuing to call their performances average. Average performances yield average results...on average.
Of course there will be times you play poorly and win, or play well and lose. That's football. But if you keep putting in average performances then you're not going to keep on winning and they just...do. Easy fixtures or no, I can't believe it can be entirely luck. There does seem to be something about them this season. Whether they'll maintain this...it seems unlikely, but I keep thinking that. Hopefully December will see them drop enough points and we can go on a run and haul them in a bit.
You use the word "average" a lot by the way - elsewhere you chastised someone else for using it because average compared with what?

Perhaps you’re right, perhaps the word mediocre would be better

But again quibbling over venacular, doesn’t change my view that I don’t believe their performances to be those you would see from sides you’ve seen in the past that are title winners. And I don’t think it in anyway unreasonable to suggest that I don’t think you have any evidentiary basis to challenge that view without having seen Liverpool play

[HCZ_Reborn]

Our defence doesn't feel as solid, I think that's the main thing for me. Last season we shut up shop and saw games out, this year we're struggling to keep clean sheets.

I think again people misremember and when they think of last season they think exclusively of the second half

We failed to close out leads against Fulham twice and Spurs and Liverpool, we conceded three goals against Luton for heaven’s sake.

First 20 games? Conceded 20 goals. Not only that but we had Raya who was atrocious at the time

If people argued, “well after the 18 game run from January to May, I’d have thought we had shaken off the problems that made us look a bit shit in the first half of that season”. I’d have sympathy for that view, I’d hoped the same myself.

But to suggest that we are worse than we were in the first half of last season, I have to say it’s just inaccurate

[Letters]

And I don’t think it in anyway unreasonable to suggest that I don’t think you have any evidentiary basis to challenge that view without having seen Liverpool play
It isn't unreasonable. I guess my only evidence is their results. The longer this goes on the more unlikely it seems to me that their performances are mediocre and they're getting lucky. That can't keep happening, surely? And maybe it won't, but they are starting to irritate. I heard my neighbour yelling when Southampton went 2-1 up yesterday and rolled my eyes when I saw they'd won again.

[Letters]

But to suggest that we are worse than we were in the first half of last season, I have to say it’s just inaccurate
That may be true. It feels worse but that may be because we're comparing the first half of this season to the last half of last in which we were mostly imperious.
And we have had harder fixtures this time. So overall I am feeling a bit more upbeat about things but Liverpool are starting to piss me off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That may be true. It feels worse but that may be because we're comparing the first half of this season to the last half of last in which we were mostly imperious.
And we have had harder fixtures this time. So overall I am feeling a bit more upbeat about things but Liverpool are starting to piss me off.

But then that’s your issue is it not?

My feeling is more that patience is required for things to start moving our way


And if by the first week in January we haven’t made up any ground on them, I will be despondent

[Letters]

Newcastle 0 - West Ham 2 so far :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I like Wan Bisakka, I’m surprised United sold him….always one of their better players I thought

[Marc Overmars]

West Ham playing themselves back into form for us?