Brighton vs Arsenal 04.01.2025 - KO: 17:30 GMT

[HCZ_Reborn]

The last game between us caused a bitter taste in my mouth, in that I strongly believe that at least part of the reason the referee sent off Declan Rice was because of the screaming Brighton players trying to deflect from the fact that, that unpleasant thug Veltman had kicked the ball at Rice and then scythed him down.
That in my view was an abundant act of cheating.
I’m also not looking forward to this game because Brighton are in a horrible run of form but I fear that they might suddenly get back to winning ways against us. Not having Timber available to us certainly doesn’t help, and of course Arteta will go with his horrendous instincts by playing Partey there rather than Calafiori or Lewis Skelly.

We’ve won three out of the last four league games at the Amex (in fact tend to do better there than we do at home against this lot) but just have a nasty feeling. Then again had that nasty feeling last season and we won 3-0, and it was the next game against Villa that proved to be the sickener.

Hopefully Havertz is back, we need more attacking options. Being reliant on Jesus makes me deeply uncomfortable

[Mac76]

3-0 Joao Pedro hatter

[HCZ_Reborn]

3-0 Bobby Zamora hat trick

I literally can’t think of a player who played for Brighton before that

[Marc Overmars]

1-1

[HCZ_Reborn]

Team to play Brighton: Raya; Partey, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori; Rice, Jorginho, Merino; Nwaneri, Jesus, Trossard
Subs: Neto, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Martinelli, Butler-Oyedeji, Kabia

What the fuck is this?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Four DMs on the pitch. :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I find Arteta impressive, he never fails to make me angry with the team he puts out

[Marc Overmars]

Stodgy as fuck.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I hope Havertz isn’t being rested for the semi finals of the nothing cup

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Team to play Brighton: Raya; Partey, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori; Rice, Jorginho, Merino; Nwaneri, Jesus, Trossard
Subs: Neto, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Martinelli, Butler-Oyedeji, Kabia

What the fuck is this?

Brighton: Verbruggen, Veltman, Julio, van Hecke, Estupinian, O'Reily, Beleba, Gruda, Adingra, Ayari, Pedro
Subs: Steele, Lamptey, Webster, March, Enciso, Rutter, Moder, Minteh, Mitoma

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we drop points today can we round up a mob to build a wicker man to burn Arteta inside of?

Horrible cunt

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz still Ill apparently, but if Martinelli and Odegaard are fit enough for the bench, they are fit enough to start

Stodge up the midfield when you’ve got a lead to defend not before.

[dostoy]

Odegaard has been ill apparently.

Arteta spends every day with the players so he knows the situation far better than some 'people' on here.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Odegaard struggling with illness so put him on the bench with other players. :unsure:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Odegaard has been ill apparently.

Arteta spends every day with the players so he knows the situation far better than some 'people' on here.

Again fit enough for the bench, fit enough to start

You don’t fuck around with games like these, you have to be prepared to take risk

[Mac76]

No real complaints given illness etc, but I'd have started MLS ahead of Calafiori, I'm not convinced by the latter's defending so far and overall he's less assured than MLS

Or ofc he could start Tierney and have MLS in midfield but he doesn't like actual left backs

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Team to play Brighton: Raya; Partey, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori; Rice, Jorginho, Merino; Nwaneri, Jesus, Trossard
Subs: Neto, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Martinelli, Butler-Oyedeji, Kabia

What the fuck is this?

The lineup only reaffirms the fact the team is not balanced.

We really need to make good use of this transfer window and get some attacking players.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Let's stink this out. :bow:

[Mac76]

C'mon Arsenal

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think Lewis-Skelly is that great (although I’m not knocking him, it’s his age), Calafiori is better on the ball and as I’ve said repeatedly you are far less likely to see whoever plays on the left being isolated with the Italian playing behind him.

Lewis Skelly for me should have started on the right today, rather than waste Partey when we clearly need him in midfield


Play Partey at 8 with Rice behind him, risk Martinelli on the left play Trossard through the middle and Jesus on the right with Nwaneri in Odegaard’s spot (if he’s not fully 100%)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let's stink this out. :bow:

Oh we won’t fail to deliver on that

[Mac76]

I don’t think Lewis-Skelly is that great (although I’m not knocking him, it’s his age), Calafiori is better on the ball and as I’ve said repeatedly you are far less likely to see whoever plays on the left being isolated with the Italian playing behind him.

I think he was at fault for that Brentford goal

[HCZ_Reborn]

The lineup only reaffirms the fact the team is not balanced.

We really need to make good use of this transfer window and get some attacking players.

Attacking Players plural? As much as I’d like to see that…I’d have to say that’s incredibly optimistic

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think he was at fault for that Brentford goal

Yes he was, no argument there. But I’m less concerned about conceding goals than not scoring them

Although so was Raya…you shouldn’t get beaten at your near post unless the ball is struck so hard it would break your wrist if you got your hand to it

[Mac76]

Jesus should have done better but offside anyway

[McNamara That Ghost...]

NWANERI!!!

[Mac76]

Nwaneriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The funny thing is his first few touches have he's been really poor....but this is the thing about real talent, you just need a moment to make a difference. Great goal and great decision making.

[Mac76]

Jorginho :doh: totallly scuppered that FK routine

[WMUG]

Yes he was, no argument there. But I’m less concerned about conceding goals than not scoring them

Although so was Raya…you shouldn’t get beaten at your near post unless the ball is struck so hard it would break your wrist if you got your hand to it

Disagree with your last paragraph slightly, speaking as a keeper, albeit in a 6 a side team.

If you've got a defender between the attacker and the near post, it can be redundant to cover that area at the expense of shifting over a couple of paces towards the far post, ensuring a greater overall level of coverage.

If the defender then lets the ball through, it's on him.

[Mac76]

I wish someone on our left hamd side - especially Cala - would try to beat the man ahead of them occasionally

[HCZ_Reborn]

Disagree with your last paragraph slightly, speaking as a keeper, albeit in a 6 a side team.

If you've got a defender between the attacker and the near post, it can be redundant to cover that area at the expense of shifting over a couple of paces towards the far post, ensuring a greater overall level of coverage.

If the defender then lets the ball through, it's on him.

The comment was redundant as Raya did have the area covered but he was still beaten by the shot

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Adingra should do better.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This is one thing I hate when Odegaard doesn't start a game.

The forward players forget they are suppose to lead our defending by pressing. Jesus by now should be able to lead by example as he's been here longer than any forward player.

[WMUG]

Oof, got away with that.

Poor from Jorginho.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Jorginho :doh: totallly scuppered that FK routine

Jorghino has continued with his part time performances. Don't think we should extend with the way he's acting .

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sighter from Nwaneri off that corrner. :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Besides the goal, Nwaneri has been extremely poor today

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm going to say four DMs isn't something I want to see much of in future games, surprising I know.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Baleba shot went for a throw-in. :haha:

[WMUG]

Brilliant from Cala there, bailed us out twice.

[Mac76]

Besides the goal, Nwaneri has been extremely poor today

He's lost the ball a bit, but that's partly because he's the only one trying to beat people and effect a quick transition

[Mac76]

Nwaneri taking a silly yellow for timewasting, don't like the look of that

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 HT.

Stinkball half done. :bow:

[Mac76]

0-1 HT, great to get the goal obvs but a bit scrappy from us, need to keep possession better in the second half, Brighton have had opportunities but spurned them so far

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Been a pretty painful watch, but with the lineup announced, probably not a suprise.

All our forward players have been terrible and we are fortunate to be ahead as the chance fell to only one who's got a killer instinct.

This is also probably the worst Brighton side we've ever faced. They seem totally clueless and that IMO is the only reason we are ahead.

We can and should win this game.

If Martinelli is fit, please bring him on as soon as possible. Also if Odegaard can last for 20 mins, please bring him on. If we lose this game or drop points, it'll only confirm to me that Arteta really doesn't know how to read games properly and doesn't deserve to be a manager of a top club.

Also cut out the silly time wasting so we don't get clearly avoidable red cards. No excuses, please

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

He's lost the ball a bit, but that's partly because he's the only one trying to beat people and effect a quick transition

I think he deosn't like playing on the right. Either that or he has got an attitude problem already.

I am thankful for the goal as Jesus had an easier chance and still managed to make their keeper look like some sort off Buffon. However he needs to work on his attitude and his pressing.

Man I miss Saka sooooo much.

[Mac76]

Also cut out the silly time wasting so we don't get clearly avoidable red cards. No excuses, please

Yup, it's driving me crazy and allows people to throw that 'dark arts' crap at us

[Mac76]

I think he deosn't like playing on the left.


Good thing he's playing on the right then

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nwaneri off, Martinelli on.

Probably for the yellow.

[Mac76]

Martinelli replacing Nwaneri, that makes sense IMO, can't afford to have Nwaneri banned and Martinelli will give Brighton something else to think about on that side

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How didn't anyone strike that cleanly?

[Mac76]

How did Merino not get that

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

How didn't anyone strike that cleanly?

And now we've got a penalty to defend.

[Mac76]

Anthony Taylor gives a soft pel, what a surprise

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-1 Joao Pedro.

Bollocks.

[Mac76]

This will difficult to win from here

[Mac76]

If Ode and/or Havertz can play then they need to come on, a point means nothing given the league state

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

1-1 Joao Pedro.

Bollocks.

Now we get Odegaard.

Unfortunately they are also bringing in Mitoma.

Looks like a point might not be a bad thing after all.

[Mac76]

I really think that was a soft pel tbh - the refs have really had it in for us this season

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If Ode and/or Havertz can play then they need to come on, a point means nothing given the league state

Havertz isn't on the bench, or is he?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now we get Odegaard.

Unfortunately they are also bringing in Mitoma.

Looks like a point might not be a bad thing after all.

A point is definitely a bad thing. Lose or draw makes very little difference. It’s win or nothing

[Mac76]

Havertz isn't on the bench, or is he?

No, my mistake

[Marc Overmars]

Every game we don’t win is just another nail in the coffin. Throw a bit of caution to the wind and go for it FFS.

[Mac76]

Every game we don’t win is just another nail in the coffin. Throw a bit of caution to the wind and go for it FFS.

Totally, every game is basically a must-win

[Mac76]

Cala's so hopeless in defence, he should bring MLS on, who can also help us going forward

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cala's so hopeless in defence, he should bring MLS on, who can also help us going forward

That would be a first from what I’ve seen

[Mac76]

Jeez we're such a mess going forward, Jesus losing the ball time after time

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Totally, every game is basically a must-win

Well that attempt by Rice is our 1st shot on target this half.... so I'm not sure you'd be able to tell every game is a must win with the way we are playing ATM.

[Mac76]

That would be a first from what I’ve seen

He helped create a goal just a couple of games ago, I suggest you watch more closely

[HCZ_Reborn]

He helped create a goal just a couple of games ago, I suggest you watch more closely

And Merino scored in the last game doesn’t make him a great attacking player

Lewis-Skelly is far too comfortable playing the inverted full back shite and hiding away in midfield, again I don’t blame him he’s only a youngster.

[Marc Overmars]

We need to sign a forward this month, this team is absolute stodge and certainly a level below what they were last season.

[Mac76]

And Merino scored in the last game doesn’t make him a great attacking player

Lewis-Skelly is far too comfortable playing the inverted full back shite and hiding away in midfield, again I don’t blame him he’s only a youngster.

Calling bullshit on that, total nonsense

[Mac76]

Free kick :popcorn:

[Mac76]

Partey's not had a good game

[HCZ_Reborn]

Calling bullshit on that, total nonsense

Yes Of course it’s nonsense :rolleyes:

People want him to be the greatest thing ever because he’s an academy player. From what I’ve seen, he’s a slightly less quick Maitland Niles for the left

[Mac76]

Cala booked for being an arse, now can we get him off

[HCZ_Reborn]

We need to sign a forward this month, this team is absolute stodge and certainly a level below what they were last season.

See I’m going to say why bother?

I know we say every game is a must win but tonight especially so. And signing a striker for what? A couple of nothing cups. If the league is gone I’d sooner wait till the summer and a new coach (although that unfortunately won’t happen because KSE’s lack of ambition)

[Mac76]

Another FK cmon FFS

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-1 FT. Bollocks.

[Mac76]

See I’m going to say why bother?

I know we say every game is a must win but tonight especially so. And signing a striker for what? A couple of nothing cups. If the league is gone I’d sooner wait till the summer and a new coach (although that unfortunately won’t happen because KSE’s lack of ambition)

Even staying top four will be a battle without more in attack

And sorry but the FAC is not a nothing cup, especially to this club

Also there's the CL

[Marc Overmars]

Let’s be honest, there is no title race. It is a procession for Liverpool.

Arteta. :rose:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Even staying top four will be a battle without more in attack

No it won’t

Chelsea look like they’ve peaked. They will be looking over their shoulder for City, Forest and maybe Newcastle

Plus top 4 is the owners priority. I’d rather that Cunt not be allowed to waste more of the club’s money. He will rant on about the soft penalty but if we’d started with martinelli and odegaard we could have taken them off second half potentially with a bigger lead and played that stodgy shit football he adores


Winning 5 games from 11 in the league is fucking embarassing. Even more so the fact that we’ve only won once out of five outside of London.

The idea of that scumbag knowing what a good attacker is, is laughable

Edit - Actually no I take that back, I hope we do finish outside the top four because it might make Tom Selleck and his developmentally disabled son realise that they’ve employed a fraud, especially when his cash cow is affected without CL Money

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We need to sign a forward this month, this team is absolute stodge and certainly a level below what they were last season.

Everyone accepts this except Arteta.

With the way things are, if Real Madrid gave us back the money we wasted on Rice, I'd sell Saliba and bring in the 2 forward players I need this January.

Obviously we don't have those kind of smart football people left in this club. So I expect they'll wait till summer when Citeh is able to spend a gazillion to rebuild there team and keep crying that nothing is ever fair.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let’s be honest, there is no title race. It is a procession for Liverpool.

Arteta. :rose:

A rose? If he was dead I’d piss on his grave

I want that piece of shit out of the club. He nauseates me

[HCZ_Reborn]

Everyone accepts this except Arteta.

With the way things are, if Real Madrid gave us back the money we wasted on Rice, I'd sell Saliba and bring in the 2 forward players I need this January.

Obviously we don't have those kind of smart football people left in this club. So I expect they'll wait till summer when Citeh is able to spend a gazillion to rebuild there team and keep crying that nothing is ever fair.

You’d sell our best defender by a mile and you accuse others of lacking ambition

I think Harry Redknapp said it best “fucking brains on you” :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think we're on the same amount of points at this stage last season.

Off to Dubai we go. :bow:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No it won’t

Chelsea look like they’ve peaked. They will be looking over their shoulder for City, Forest and maybe Newcastle

Plus top 4 is the owners priority. I’d rather that Cunt not be allowed to waste more of the club’s money. He will rant on about the soft penalty but if we’d started with martinelli and odegaard we could have taken them off second half potentially with a bigger lead and played that stodgy shit football he adores


Winning 5 games from 11 in the league is fucking embarassing. Even more so the fact that we’ve only won once out of five outside of London.

The idea of that scumbag knowing what a good attacker is, is laughable

I'd be interested to know if we've ever taken all 3 points when he has started all 4 DMs in the club.

Arteta never learns. The first half where Brighton played so terribly was where this game was meant to be won. He only kept encouraging the players to waste time that they should have known they'd need once we'd given the opposition their complementary goal which always happens when we play 8 defensive players.

[Mac76]

They will be looking over their shoulder for City, Forest and maybe Newcastle



That's three teams, in case you can't count

[Mac76]

Prioritising the buying of Cala and Merino over an attacker or two is looking llike a worse and worse decision with each passing game

they're both journeymen IMO and while LB is an issue, Cala clearly can't defend well enough to make a difference

we're once again falling foul of Arteata's bsission with the inverted LB thing which has inflicted Zin on us in the past and again left us wanting

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's three teams, in case you can't count

Yes…what’s your point?

I think we can agree Liverpool have secured top four (and probably the title given we’ve made as much effort to show them up as Private Pyle did climbing up the obstacle course) so they don’t factor in

Plus a top four race usually involves more than four clubs, so if we assume we finish in the top two. The other two places are being contested (in my view) by four other clubs

[HCZ_Reborn]

Prioritising the buying of Cala and Merino over an attacker or two is looking llike a worse and worse decision with each passing game

they're both journeymen IMO and while LB is an issue, Cala clearly can't defend well enough to make a difference

we're once again falling foul of Arteata's bsission with the inverted LB thing which has inflicted Zin on us in the past and again left us wanting

I wouldn’t have signed Calafiori because the priority was a striker. But any day of the week I’d sooner have him there than Timber or Left sided Maitland-Niles. He’s basically barely come back from injury, I know you need a player to demonise now it looks like Zinchenko has been frozen out. But by a country mile he offers more going forward than any of the other full backs, plus we push up…Brighton use roadrunners on the wing…I wouldn’t mind but people don’t complain about the many times Ben White gets done for pace even when he is fully fit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh the fucking Arsenal fans on Twitter. Trying to prove how good their gag reflex is by deep throating that cunt Arteta.

Yes it was a soft penalty, but it shouldn’t matter. I don’t even believe this stuff about illness…funny how despite it being a bug that two of the players that have it are still on the bench. Funny how it’s only affected our attacking players as well. I’m more inclined to think Havertz has fallen out with Arteta because Arteta is an insufferable cunt with the personality and charm of Andy Murray

[Mac76]

Yes…what’s your point?

I think we can agree Liverpool have secured top four (and probably the title given we’ve made as much effort to show them up as Private Pyle did climbing up the obstacle course) so they don’t factor in

Plus a top four race usually involves more than four clubs, so if we assume we finish in the top two. The other two places are being contested (in my view) by four other clubs

All of which means,going back to my point, that we still have top four to fight for

Nice attempt at diversion though

[HCZ_Reborn]

All of which means,going back to my point, that we still have top four to fight for

Nice attempt at diversion though

A) As I said i don’t see it, I think all those sides look more likely to lose games than we are and actually the more teams who are behind us competing the more they end up knee capping each other

B) The more important point in my original reply. IDGAF. Actually that’s not true, I do…i can see the benefit to finishing outside the top 4 if it means the end of Arteta. The man is a cancer

[Marc Overmars]

I think we're on the same amount of points at this stage last season.

Off to Dubai we go. :bow:

We won 16 of the next 18.

We can do it again, right? :unsure:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dunno, don’t care. League is over before the first week in January is :lol: yet anyone calling for Arteta’s head is told that they are ungrateful.

We aren’t going to win the champions league, and the other cups are utterly irrelevant to me…so in my view season over

[Letters]

We won 16 of the next 18.

We can do it again, right? :unsure:

Wrong.

But…Liverpool aren’t going to win and win and win either like City did. I reckon there are some twists left yet. Liverpool have to be favourites but it’s not a done deal quite yet.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh and Nwaneri is injured :haha:

He’s more than just a cunt, he’s an actual jinx

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We won 16 of the next 18.

We can do it again, right? :unsure:

Should be easy enough.

[Marc Overmars]

Wrong.

But…Liverpool aren’t going to win and win and win either like City did. I reckon there are some twists left yet. Liverpool have to be favourites but it’s not a done deal quite yet.

I don’t see any twists to be honest. It’s the most boring season since the last time Liverpool won it.

For me Arteta very much needs to bag a cup now because the credit in the bank he’s rightfully earned is on the way out. This season cannot just be allowed fall into a pit of nothingness like it so often did with Wenger.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t see any twists to be honest. It’s the most boring season since the last time Liverpool won it.

For me Arteta very much needs to bag a cup now because the credit in the bank he’s rightfully earned is on the way out. This season cannot just be allowed fall into a pit of nothingness like it so often did with Wenger.

I’m not having a go at you here because you’re not the only one who has said this. But even if we won the league cup and the fa cup…how does that change anything. The league cup is a nothing trophy, and we’ve had more than enough fa cups. We aren’t going to win the champions league, you know it, I know it….i suspect even that deluded scrote Arteta knows it.

The league was there for us to win this season. And I say that even with the completely strange Transfer decisions. But you can’t win six games from thirteen and expect anything good to come your way.

Frankly even if by some miracle we did win the champions league that wouldn’t make up for missing out on the league.

Letters is right in that Liverpool will drop points, because they aren’t that good and they will only have so many teams willing to oblige them. But if we can’t do our bit it simply doesn’t matter

[Letters]

I don’t see any twists to be honest. It’s the most boring season since the last time Liverpool won it.
You might be right but honestly some people behave like they’ve never seen football before.
So many seasons there have been big changes as teams who look imperious start to wobble.
If Liverpool keep going like they have then they’ll canter to the title and fair play, but there’s a long way to go so I still think it’s a bit early to throw in the towel.
That said with the injuries we have I am not optimistic

[Marc Overmars]

I’m not having a go at you here because you’re not the only one who has said this. But even if we won the league cup and the fa cup…how does that change anything. The league cup is a nothing trophy, and we’ve had more than enough fa cups. We aren’t going to win the champions league, you know it, I know it….i suspect even that deluded scrote Arteta knows it.

The league was there for us to win this season. And I say that even with the completely strange Transfer decisions. But you can’t win six games from thirteen and expect anything good to come your way.

Frankly even if by some miracle we did win the champions league that wouldn’t make up for missing out on the league.

Letters is right in that Liverpool will drop points, because they aren’t that good and they will only have so many teams willing to oblige them. But if we can’t do our bit it simply doesn’t matter

I agree that a cup win isn’t going to gloss over how we’ve fumbled the league but quite simply, I am a fan and just want to see us win something. Anything. Otherwise what’s the point, you might as well just turn this shite off now and come back in August.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree that a cup win isn’t going to gloss over how we’ve fumbled the league but quite simply, I am a fan and just want to see us win something. Anything. Otherwise what’s the point, you might as well just turn this shite off now and come back in August.

That’s pretty much what I intend to do at this point

And to be honest, I think that may continue until the Kroenkes decide they care about the club enough to sack this fraud

[HCZ_Reborn]

You might be right but honestly some people behave like they’ve never seen football before.
So many seasons there have been big changes as teams who look imperious start to wobble.
If Liverpool keep going like they have then they’ll canter to the title and fair play, but there’s a long way to go so I still think it’s a bit early to throw in the towel.
That said with the injuries we have I am not optimistic

I’m not sure any team has overhauled what is de facto an 11 point deficit even half way through the season

My optimism that we could catch Liverpool was routed in the belief that after the Chelsea game we should probably go on a run of wins. Probably taking us up to February…I didn’t factor in that Arteta would be so inept that we couldn’t beat teams like Fulham, Everton or Brighton in one of the longest barren spells they’ve had in years.

Failure of imagination I suppose.

[Letters]

I’m not sure any team has overhauled what is de facto an 11 point deficit even half way through the season
I'm very confused about your position.

You think Liverpool will drop points but you are also pre-supposing they will win the games in hand.
You lament our form and say that with that record you can't "expect anything good to come your way." but you have also noted that we've had harder games this season and we are points wise where we were at this stage last season. You not long ago reminded (someone) what a slog the first half of last season was at times.

So...what gives?

Don't get me wrong, we aren't clicking this season and I don't expect that to suddenly change, I don't think we're going to go on a run anything like last year but I also don't think Liverpool will do what City did either. So...it is hard to see past Liverpool but I think it's a bit early to throw in the towel.

[Marc Overmars]

Don't get me wrong, we aren't clicking this season and I don't expect that to suddenly change, I don't think we're going to go on a run anything like last year but I also don't think Liverpool will do what City did either. So...it is hard to see past Liverpool but I think it's a bit early to throw in the towel.

The thing is, Liverpool won’t need to do what City did because they won’t have strong enough competition and that’s the difference here. They’re not being tested or having questions asked of them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm very confused about your position.

You think Liverpool will drop points but you are also pre-supposing they will win the games in hand.
You lament our form and say that with that record you can't "expect anything good to come your way." but you have also noted that we've had harder games this season and we are points wise where we were at this stage last season. You not long ago reminded (someone) what a slog the first half of last season was at times.

So...what gives?

Don't get me wrong, we aren't clicking this season and I don't expect that to suddenly change, I don't think we're going to go on a run anything like last year but I also don't think Liverpool will do what City did either. So...it is hard to see past Liverpool but I think it's a bit early to throw in the towel.

Because the games in hand they have are Everton away and United at home. Yes Everton got draws against us and Chelsea and city (but maybe the link is that all three of us are in horrible form) and United is the Ayrton Senna of car crashes.

Who knows maybe they will drop points in those games. But five wins from 11 on the road is appalling for a club like us, 6 wins from 13 games is appalling for a club like us. Nothing gives me any belief that we can capitalise. The joke is maybe United will get a shock result tomorrow but again we couldn’t assert the pressure

[Letters]

The thing is, Liverpool won’t need to do what City did because they won’t have strong enough competition and that’s the difference here. They’re not being tested or having questions asked of them.
It's very disappointing that we've failed to take advantage of the slips Liverpool have made.
I think we can all agree we should be a lot closer to them than we are.

[Letters]

United is the Ayrton Senna of car crashes.
Ooft :lol:

[Mac76]

A) As I said i don’t see it, I think all those sides look more likely to lose games than we are and actually the more teams who are behind us competing the more they end up knee capping each other

B) The more important point in my original reply. IDGAF. Actually that’s not true, I do…i can see the benefit to finishing outside the top 4 if it means the end of Arteta. The man is a cancer

Firstly, I've known several people who died of or had cancer (the latter category including immediate family) so using that word in such a context is deeply offensive

That said i'm also of the mind that we need to fail on all fronts this season if there's any hope of the club thinking we might need a change.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Firstly, I've known several people who died of or had cancer (the latter category including immediate family) so using that word in such a context is deeply offensive

That said i'm also of the mind that we need to fail on all fronts this season if there's any hope of the club thinking we might need a change.

Both my parents have had cancer, one of them died from it. If that’s not going to deter me from using the word as a metaphor, realistically what chance is there when it comes to you whining “that’s offensive”

[Mac76]

Both my parents have had cancer, one of them died from it. If that’s not going to deter me from using the word as a metaphor, realistically what chance is there when it comes to you whining “that’s offensive”

Well that says more about you than me

That said, I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your folks

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well that says more about you than me

That said, I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your folks

I’m about as interested in your sorrow genuine or otherwise as I am in your taking offence

It’s a word….get over yourself.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not only Liverpool but Chelsea, Newcastle and Forest have won more games on the road this season than us

I’m frankly ashamed of this, especially given that we had been looking like finally getting our act together away from home

[Mac76]

Well there's at least three games where the refs decided the result

- Bournemouth - BS sending off
- Brighton - BS pel
- Man Citeh - BS sending off

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well there's at least three games where the refs decided the result

- Bournemouth - BS sending off
- Brighton - BS pel
- Man Citeh - BS sending off

Didn’t decide the result yesterday. Not starting Odegaard or Martinelli decided the result. They gave a bullshit pel against us for sure but scoring one goal away from home was never going to be enough when we haven’t kept a single clean sheet away from home in the previous eight away games

[Ollie the Optimist]

Well there's at least three games where the refs decided the result

- Bournemouth - BS sending off
- Brighton - BS pel
- Man Citeh - BS sending off

Reading this morning that VAR checked & cleared the decision within seconds (assume that means they watched one replay) yet the slow motion clearly shows ball touching Salibas head before contact. These people take minutes checking if big toes are offside yet rush these kind of decisions.

Sack the PGMOL, it’s not fit for purpose. Clubs sign players from all over the world to improve why can’t we do same with referees instead of having tje same shit ones every week

[Mac76]

Reading this morning that VAR checked & cleared the decision within seconds (assume that means they watched one replay) yet the slow motion clearly shows ball touching Salibas head before contact. These people take minutes checking if big toes are offside yet rush these kind of decisions.

Sack the PGMOL, it’s not fit for purpose. Clubs sign players from all over the world to improve why can’t we do same with referees instead of having tje same shit ones every week

can't argue with any of that

[Mac76]

Didn’t decide the result yesterday. Not starting Odegaard or Martinelli decided the result. They gave a bullshit pel against us for sure but scoring one goal away from home was never going to be enough when we haven’t kept a single clean sheet away from home in the previous eight away games

Odegaard was ill and I've no objection to rotating Martinelli as an impact sub on the bench and giving Nwaneri (who, err, scored btw) starting, I thought he played fine and was trying to make thingss happen

the way you dismiss players scoring goals is hilarious

but that aside our fundamental flaw is our needing more attacking players

[HCZ_Reborn]

Odegaard was ill and I've no objection to rotating Martinelli as an impact sub on the bench and giving Nwaneri (who, err, scored btw) starting, I thought he played fine and was trying to make thingss happen

the way you dismiss players scoring goals is hilarious

but that aside our fundamental flaw is our needing more attacking players

I’m confused by this statement

“The way you dismiss players scoring goals is hilarious”

If you can find anywhere in what I’ve written where I’ve been dismissive of Nwaneri who got the goal yesterday please by all means feel free to highlight that.

The fact is though that we started yesterday with four defensive midfielders in the Starting XI. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that if Martinelli and Odegaard were fit enough to be brought on when we put ourselves in a position where we were chasing the game, they were fit enough to start.

How that can be construed in any reasonable way as being dismissive towards Nwaneri I don’t know….I have no problem with him starting games. I actually think yesterday the smartest course of action, would have been to play him in the Odegaard role, play Jesus on the right, play Martinelli on the left and Trossard up front (he’s not a striker but he’s the only player available who can hold up the ball) and then played Partey at 8 and Maitland-Niles on the right.


I said from the outside I was aghast at that lineup in a game where we needed to win….and when we know that match officials will punish us for things they will never punish other teams for it made it even more stupid to put out a team that was going to struggle to create chances.


We didn’t have the luxury of rotating, but again in this match like against Ipswich, like against Everton, like against Fulham. The coach puts impediments on our ability to score goals with the lineup and set up.


Of course I think we should have signed a striker in the transfer market and over the last nine transfer window we should have been more focused on attack and creativity than we have. But even with what we have available, we put constraints on our attacking play. Playing Partey at right back when we’ve won only one game from five when he plays there because we are not utilising the fact that he’s been the best midfielder for us this season would be the biggest example of this.

[dazthegooner]

Reading this morning that VAR checked & cleared the decision within seconds (assume that means they watched one replay) yet the slow motion clearly shows ball touching Salibas head before contact. These people take minutes checking if big toes are offside yet rush these kind of decisions.

Sack the PGMOL, it’s not fit for purpose. Clubs sign players from all over the world to improve why can’t we do same with referees instead of having tje same shit ones every week

Seem that a player could shoot ome of our players and PGMOL would send off our player for holding onto the bullet for too long :blink: (bit obsessive but still)

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Seem that a player could shoot ome of our players and PGMOL would send off our player for holding onto the bullet for too long :blink: (bit obsessive but still):lol:

Delaying the reload? :unsure:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Also how wasn’t the blatant trip on Gabriel a penalty in the first half?

Happy to give a nonsense penalty to Brighton and let off a clear trip. It’s just incompetence

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have to say as much as I’ve decried Arsenal social media for its willingness to have basque cock slammed against their tonsils. There is a dawning realisation after the emotions of a shoddy penalty decision, that they are making excuses for a complete and utter fraud.

No ultimately what the fanbase thinks of Arteta won’t make a difference. But it’s refreshing to see people realising they were in a cult

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm still not convinced it wasn't a penalty, the replays I have seen show the ball hitting Saliba after it came off Pedro and then Saliba twats him into next week.
Either way, we should have been in a position that a penalty to them made no difference to the outcome! Scoring one goal and then reverting to playing like shit is not acceptable on any level and Arteta has done this numerous times this season with the same result.

However, we have been pretty doghsit for the whole of the season so far, with a few stand out performances in some games.

From last season, we should have pushed on and been top of the league and clear right now but instead we look like this:

We had the best defence - now it looks like a mid table one
We had the best attack - now it looks like a relegation one
We had the best football outside of City - now it looks like a military parade
We were title contenders - now, I don't even fucking know what we look like!

5 years into this 'process' we look like we did in the first season Arteta took over.

Serious questions need to be asked

How have we gone backwards?
Why is our team and squad smaller and worse than it ever was?
Why do our players look like they all have lost the ability to play football?
WTF is Arteta doing???

[HCZ_Reborn]

It wasn’t a penalty and if it was, then literally hundreds of incidents like that have been not given as penalties

That the penalty shouldn’t have been the difference between winning or not, does not detract from the fact that we are being officiated in a much more stricter and harsher way than any other premier league team. I don’t want Arteta to hide behind this, as he often likes to do…but I don’t think Brighton would have come back into the game without a penalty award that even their own players weren’t appealing for.

It’s not a binary, you can believe both that Arteta is doing a lousy job and that we have been penalised in the most egregious way

[Letters]

We had the best defence - now it looks like a mid table one
We've conceded 18 goals, at this stage last season we'd conceded 20.


We had the best attack - now it looks like a relegation one
We've scored 39 goals, at this stage last season we'd scored 37


We had the best football outside of City - now it looks like a military parade
Hard to argue with this, we aren't playing good football right now.


We were title contenders - now, I don't even fucking know what we look like!
We were 5 points off the top at this stage last season - also to Liverpool. Who now have 1 more point having played one less game.

[Mac76]

I said from the outside I was aghast at that lineup in a game where we needed to win….

Which shows how oblivious to reality you are, there was literally no-one else to play aprt from Martinelli and tbh it can be a good thing to have at least one player who can come on and have impact, Martinelli started at the weekend so he went with Trossard who wasn't as bad as some people say and Marintelli wasn't any better when he came on.

The real failure is the fact that there isn't greater attacking depth in the squad, Saturday was just a symptom of that

[IBK]

I realise that measured observations are unfashionable, but here goes anyway.

This was a performance by a team on its last legs because of injury, fixture congestion and illness. We should still have taken 3 points but for a nonsense penalty decision, that as bad as it was by that twat Taylor should have been overturned by VAR. Of course it wasn't - as PGMOL is both incompetent and clearly has it in for Arsenal this season. Arteta was right to say that he had never seen a decision like it before, and just like the reds for us earlier in the season we won't see again.

To see that cheat Joao Pedro rolling around like his face had been torn off but able miraculously to recover to slot home his penalty made my blood boil.

In these circumstances, and on its own merits, a point would not have been such a bad result, but given where we are in the league, it was a disaster, again.

I am not going to go after Arteta for his observations on that shit. And I am prepared to cut him some slack given the circumstances that we had to play this game in. This includes the fact that after a congested Xmas period, Brighton had 2 extra days rest (and clearly played with this in mind). Also, the fact that Timber was suspended.

I also think that the Arteta out hysteria is overblown. We are on the same points tally as last season at this stage (albeit that there is no way we are going to replicate last season's second half), and the manager has got us to 2nd for the last 2 seasons. It is clearly a stretch to think that there is another manager out there who would achieve this consistency, and if you asked any other fans but Liverpool whether they would change a manager in our situation, they would say you were mad. Add in the fact that we will have been without our 2 most important attacking players at various points for the a large part of the season; that Slot will not, IMHO maintain the form that Liverpool have shown so far this season, and that like it or not the league is more competetive despite Citeh's travails - and Arteta's performance has to be seen in context.

That said, I remain of the opinion that if we go trophyless for another season, there is a case for trying something new. If we want to be the best, justified excuses or not this was our chance to win the league and we have not moved the dial. I cannot argue with those who suggest that Arteta has reached his ceiling.

Back to the match, where I will have a go at the manager is the team set up and the substitutions. I bloody knew that instead of trying something different like playing MLS at RB, he would stick Partey there. In doing so, he robbed us of our best progressive MF player, and - particularly given Odegard's absence/poor form - left us with no verticality in the middle of the pitch, and no service for Jesus. Frankly, he and the lamentable Trossard might as well not have played. We now know that Nwaneri was injured - hence the substitution, but choosing to bring Odegard rather than Havertz on (if both were suffering illness but on the bench I can see no argument for bringing one on not the other) - in a game that was crying out for what Havertz can bring - was a shit decision.

Have we not seen stodge FC enough for the manager not to realise what happens when Rice and Merino play together? Add Jorginho who was terrible - but yet again an example of a player expected to perform cold after not being given previous minutes - and what did we expect but a pedestrian showing?

For a manager who is supposed to understand the game so well, are we surprised that Martinelli was pathetic when he was (1) out of position, and (2) we know that he only performs with support around him - and he had none.

I'm not going to go back over our negligent summer transfer window or our embarrasing dearth of attacking talent - only to say that I don't think a single member of our forward line yeserday wouold have got into Brighton's team. To think that we spent £40M on journeyman Merino is a joke.

Game by game issues are one thing, and I have always said that its easy to be wise in hindsight, but allocating resources to a team responsibly is another. It is very difficult not to lay some of the blame for our disastrously delpeted team on a manager who should have done better to try to sieze a golden opportunity presented for the league title this year. The fact that all logical analysis says we will fall short is depressing, to say the least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Defence well we’ve conceded fewer goals than any other premier league team, and theres only one game in the last few months where we have given up loads of chances to the opposition and that was Crystal Palace

I think Arteta has to go, but everything in perspective. Four years ago we lost four home league games in a row and lost seven out of ten league games. We haven’t pushed on from challenging for the title last season and the season before that. We’ve sold players without replacing them presumably to free up the wage bill. We have too many players struggling for form, but we haven’t lost a game in any competition in almost two months, have lost seven overall in 12 months. Are second in the league

I’m furious because we aren’t top of the league on course for our first league title in over twenty years because I genuinely think that’s where we should be. But acting like we are where we were when we finished 8th is a trifle silly

[Mac76]

@ibk, I still can't decide what I think of the pel though it's true they're rarely given, but I think if Saliba goes down at the same time as Pedro it's not a pel, he made the mistake of staying on his feet

Agree re Partey at RB he should play MLS or maybe even Josh Nicholls who looked perfectly good when playing in pre-season

Merino is a huffer and puffer, completely uninspiring and a strange priority when we needed an attacker much more, as you say

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which shows how oblivious to reality you are, there was literally no-one else to play aprt from Martinelli and tbh it can be a good thing to have at least one player who can come on and have impact, Martinelli started at the weekend so he went with Trossard who wasn't as bad as some people say and Marintelli wasn't any better when he came on.

The real failure is the fact that there isn't greater attacking depth in the squad, Saturday was just a symptom of that

Basic comprehension isn’t your forte is it

In fact if you’d bothered to read the whole post you’re replying to rather than just the little bits you think you can come up with a response to, you’d see that I stated that both Martinelli and Trossard should both have played

Oh Martinelli was unwell? Well he was well enough to be brought on when Nwaneri came off with injury. So well enough to start.

What exactly is Martinelli being rested for? The semi finals of the league cup. For all I care we can fill the starting line up with sixteen year olds for that game. Yes I agree with you about the lack of attacking depth, but you have to deal with what is rather than what you wish to be the case. And you shouldn’t be rotating in that situation unless you are actively saying “we’ve given up on the league”

[KSE Comedy Club]

We've conceded 18 goals, at this stage last season we'd conceded 20.


We've scored 39 goals, at this stage last season we'd scored 37


Hard to argue with this, we aren't playing good football right now.


We were 5 points off the top at this stage last season - also to Liverpool. Who now have 1 more point having played one less game.
Yes those stats would suggest I am wrong, however we should have been able to build on the second half of last season and see the benefit of it in the first half of this season.

An exact 2 goal gain and deficit is not what I would expect us being 'better' to be.
We are 6 points off Liverpool and they have a game in hand (which is likely to be) 9 points behind them when all squared - so that is still a regression by our standards, of where we should be.
We have also drawn more games than we did for the whole of last season - a huge loss of points.

Do you see where I am coming from with this?
We were the top team (bar city) for the second half of last season - this one we should have pushed on from it but instead it feels like a repeat of last season, only with a worse points tally.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Which shows how oblivious to reality you are, there was literally no-one else to play aprt from Martinelli and tbh it can be a good thing to have at least one player who can come on and have impact, Martinelli started at the weekend so he went with Trossard who wasn't as bad as some people say and Marintelli wasn't any better when he came on.

The real failure is the fact that there isn't greater attacking depth in the squad, Saturday was just a symptom of that

Trossard was awful, kept giving the ball away or being caught in possession.

Playing Partey at RB should be made a criminal offence.

That line up was all about two thirds defence and one third attack - with nothing to bridge the gap between the two.

It didn't work last time when he set us up the same way either. It's a line up that you switch to when you are 3-0 up and want to see out a game, resting players.

He could have gone with a 3-5-3 and gone all out attack, but he is too cowardly.

[Letters]

Do you see where I am coming from with this?
I do.
And I take the point about building on last season. I just think people are throwing in the towel a bit too early. Liverpool have objectively harder fixtures than us to come - definitely away from home. I don't think we'll go on the sort of run we did last year but I don't think Liverpool will do what City did last year either so while the smart money has to be on Liverpool, I haven't given up just yet. With 3 points for a win things can change quickly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes those stats would suggest I am wrong, however we should have been able to build on the second half of last season and see the benefit of it in the first half of this season.

An exact 2 goal gain and deficit is not what I would expect us being 'better' to be.
We are 6 points off Liverpool and they have a game in hand (which is likely to be) 9 points behind them when all squared - so that is still a regression by our standards, of where we should be.

Do you see where I am coming from with this?
We were the top team (bar city) for the second half of last season - this one we should have pushed on from it but instead it feels like a repeat of last season, only with a worse points tally.

We have absolutely NOT pushed on from last season. And I do not think there is anyway we will get 49 points from the last 18 games to even match the points total of last season. But I think we’ve stagnated rather than massively regressed when you consider injuries, tough fixtures, outrageously harsh refereeing

The way I look at it is like this, if we were going to beat a City side as strong as it was last season we needed to be better. If we were going to beat a Liverpool side we simply had to be no worse. As I said I’m angry because I think with City’s collapse we should be comfortably leading the way. I think if we’d beaten Liverpool like we should have done in October, I think it would have dented their confidence massively.


But even foregoing that, the failure to beat Fulham and Everton and indeed Brighton were a result of Arteta’s innate conservatism and risk aversion.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I do.
And I take the point about building on last season. I just think people are throwing in the towel a bit too early. Liverpool have objectively harder fixtures than us to come - definitely away from home. I don't think we'll go on the sort of run we did last year but I don't think Liverpool will do what City did last year either so while the smart money has to be on Liverpool, I haven't given up just yet. With 3 points for a win things can change quickly.

Oh I think I am in agreement with you regards the outcome of the PL this season, I still think we have a chance of wining it as I know Liverpool will drop off in form and drop points.

The question will be - can we take advantage of it this time round?

We absolutely should be able to, but we need to start playing better football if we want to achieve that.

I think I am just more angry about our general style of play and Arteta fucking about with players and positions - even though the stats would actually appear to show a slight, upward trend :ilt:

[KSE Comedy Club]

We have absolutely NOT pushed on from last season. And I do not think there is anyway we will get 49 points from the last 18 games to even match the points total of last season. But I think we’ve stagnated rather than massively regressed when you consider injuries, tough fixtures, outrageously harsh refereeing

The way I look at it is like this, if we were going to beat a City side as strong as it was last season we needed to be better. If we were going to beat a Liverpool side we simply had to be no worse. As I said I’m angry because I think with City’s collapse we should be comfortably leading the way. I think if we’d beaten Liverpool like we should have done in October, I think it would have dented their confidence massively.


But even foregoing that, the failure to beat Fulham and Everton and indeed Brighton were a result of Arteta’s innate conservatism and risk aversion.

I think that is exactly where I am at with this too, as I said to Letters.

We should be sitting higher than where we are and our general play has been turgid and boring from where it was.
Ok so we have not lost games we might have done before - but we aren't winning them either, which is what is hurting us.

[IBK]

Defence well we’ve conceded fewer goals than any other premier league team, and theres only one game in the last few months where we have given up loads of chances to the opposition and that was Crystal Palace

I think Arteta has to go, but everything in perspective. Four years ago we lost four home league games in a row and lost seven out of ten league games. We haven’t pushed on from challenging for the title last season and the season before that. We’ve sold players without replacing them presumably to free up the wage bill. We have too many players struggling for form, but we haven’t lost a game in any competition in almost two months, have lost seven overall in 12 months. Are second in the league

I’m furious because we aren’t top of the league on course for our first league title in over twenty years because I genuinely think that’s where we should be. But acting like we are where we were when we finished 8th is a trifle silly


The question of pushing on is an interesting one. We have improved in each of Arteta's 5 seasons in charge...and this season on results alone we are keeping pace so far with last time around. So I agree fully with you that some of the criticism of our team and manager is overblown. I agree with Letters also that its too early to judge (as opposed to being concerned about) our season.

In assessing our progress, there is an argument to be made that it is unfair to judge where we currently are without acknowledging the ill fortune we have suffered. An easy way to illustrate it is to ask where Liverpool would be had they been without Salah for a few weeks...or even if he was having a 'normal' rather than the astonishing season he is having. 17 goals in 18 Premier League games and 13 assists is not normal, and also supersedes anything that his manager has done. Slot is enjoying very good luck...and we have almost certainly been robbed of 6 points by refereeing that only seems to apply to Arsenal.

If Arteta were a star player, I do not think that anyone sensible could regard his 'signing' as other than a success to date. But if his contract was up for renewal at the end of this season, on current form I would (just as with a player), be asking whether a fat contract reflects what he is likely to do going forwards.

I don't think it's fair to judge the manager on what is often an uninspiring and conservative approach to games, if this approach is getting the results that he told us he was aiming to achieve in his fifth stage of development. Noone criticised Mourinho's success during his glory years on this basis.

But what I am starting to believe is that under Arteta, rather than last season - where we fell so agonisignly short - being a platform from which to push on again, it was a 'goldilocks' season in many ways. Timber aside we were incredibly fortunate with injuries. Havertz's form as a striker in the second part of the season was IMO a fortunate surprise for the manager - because he did not work in the role he was bought for. Trossard was a revelation, who now seems either to be declining physically or reverting more to type. Jorginho - bought as a back up - enjoyed an Indian summer and again I suspect out-performed the manager's expectations. Goals were shared out among the team - while Saliba and Big Gabi and Ben White in defence were pretty much ever presents.

What this season seems to be telling us is that we are not as resiliant as we could be to key injuries, and that reliance on our forward players to repeat their performances - particularly with a depleted squad following the Summer clear out - was misconceived.

Where I am wobbling on Arteta is that while he is conservative on the pitch, he appears to have gambled in terms of his squad. I don't know how much this is to do with PSR, or whether he has been frustrated by the owners, but I have to say that injuries aside we do not appear to have made the investments to ensure a further sustained push to where we want to get to. At this stage - and having seen (1) the Summer business we did, (2) the manager's apparent neglect in forward areas and (3) his use of the signings he has made (eg Rice in the wrong position; inability to solve the left hand side post Xhaka; big money spent on Merino who is nothing more than a squad option) I have to admit to wondering whether Arteta has the judgment to spend wisely on what is required.

[IBK]

Trossard was awful, kept giving the ball away or being caught in possession.

Playing Partey at RB should be made a criminal offence.

That line up was all about two thirds defence and one third attack - with nothing to bridge the gap between the two.

It didn't work last time when he set us up the same way either. It's a line up that you switch to when you are 3-0 up and want to see out a game, resting players.

He could have gone with a 3-5-3 and gone all out attack, but he is too cowardly.

For me our transitions are Arteta's blind spot. We neither have/play the personnel required, nor have a direct/cute enough approach to create sufficient chances when faced with a low block. It's fine using set pieces, but teams are working this out, and too often we are far too ponderous in our build up play and can't open teams up. It's ironic because for all our defensive ability, we are actuely vulnerable to teams who are quick in transition against us. I am really not sure whether our defence would fare much better if we were less obsessed with possession, because our desire for control might restrict the other side to few chances, but we seem vulnerable when those chances come against us.

[Mac76]

Trossard was awful, kept giving the ball away or being caught in possession.

Playing Partey at RB should be made a criminal offence.

That line up was all about two thirds defence and one third attack - with nothing to bridge the gap between the two.

It didn't work last time when he set us up the same way either. It's a line up that you switch to when you are 3-0 up and want to see out a game, resting players.

He could have gone with a 3-5-3 and gone all out attack, but he is too cowardly.

I agree that Partey at RB removes one of our best players from the midfield and he can't even do the RB role very well, it's certainly something of a crime :D

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree that Partey at RB removes one of our best players from the midfield and he can't even do the RB role very well, it's certainly something of a crime :D

Yet you berated me when I expressed frustration about it on countless occasions :shrug:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

In assessing our progress, there is an argument to be made that it is unfair to judge where we currently are without acknowledging the ill fortune we have suffered. An easy way to illustrate it is to ask where Liverpool would be had they been without Salah for a few weeks...or even if he was having a 'normal' rather than the astonishing season he is having. 17 goals in 18 Premier League games and 13 assists is not normal, and also supersedes anything that his manager has done. Slot is enjoying very good luck...and we have almost certainly been robbed of 6 points by refereeing that only seems to apply to Arsenal.

I really don't disagree with much of what you have said, but is having a world class player admittedly in incredible form down to luck? Couldn't we then point to any good player on any team and discount what they are doing? Long term; Arsenal without Saka, Chelsea without Palmer etc. Fact is, for now at least we do have Salah and he's in unbelievable form but I don't put that down to luck. Plus, when we were without him last season for a chunk of 10 games or so, down to injury and AFCON our results stayed steady.

And I do think it is doing a disservice to what Slot has done at Liverpool this year. We were of course left in a fantastic position thanks to Klopp, given last season we weren't far away, except for a calamitous drop off after a 2-2 draw with United (ah shit). But even with that we are a much different team. We run alot less for example; we are actually amongst the bottom teams for distance run and sprints whereas even last season we were amongst the top end, even though we scaled back compared to the heyday of gung-ho Kloppball. And Slot is far more conscientious in terms of substitutions from both a fitness and game-managing aspect, bringing on people like Endo to close a game with 15/20 minutes left repeatedly when one of Klopp's failings was not making subs at all. And then of course dealing with the contract situation for undoubtedly our three most important players, which to say the least has been distracting.

And even with everything else, following Klopp absolutely nobody (myself included) though we'd even be in the conversation, regardless of City's drop off, so the sheer fact we are is surprising.

We've still had our fair share of injuries, with the likes of Alisson, Konate and Jota out for multiple weeks. Even squadies like Tsimikas, Elliott and Bradley have had weeks/months out, when they've been solid alternates or even better options. I'm not one to put things down to luck one way or the other, but you have had the bulk of your team fit for the whole of last season. Now that you are having injuries to the likes of Saka is that unlucky or a natural progression/consequence of previous years? We've had the same previously so it's not even a criticism per se, but naturally going 100% leads to a drop off somewhere along the line.

All that being said, and I think this is quoting another post somewhere, I actually do think we have massively dropped off form in the last few weeks, though it hasn't necessarily translated through to results yet. Defensively we are nowhere near as comfortable, which I do think has coincided with Konate's injury; but ultimately it's whether the drop off in play leads on to more dropped points (I think that will happen regardless) or we ride that out and our form picks up. With more games coming up more quickly I think that will lead to a natural drop (btw I think our performances in the cups and in Europe has been overlooked) which will therefore lead to more opportunities but I don't know if any team is strong enough to capitalise properly anyway.

Whilst I'm prattling on (and this isn't a direct reply to your post), I do think Saliba's red card was totally fair. The red for Rice was very harsh but equally he was a fucking idiot who gave another idiot the option to send him off. I always remember going back years now Mascherano being sent off for the one week answering back/arguing with the ref was an automatic red. The next week that rule was gone...

It is quite funny though how similar both of our seasons have been so far, compared to last year. And for the same reasons, both teams are sat here thinking we won't have to do the same again, and it will still be enough..... and City somehow still nick it by winning 11 on the bounce without anyone noticing.

[Mac76]

And I do think it is doing a disservice to what Slot has done at Liverpool this year. We were of course left in a fantastic position thanks to Klopp, given last season we weren't far away, except for a calamitous drop off after a 2-2 draw with United (ah shit). But even with that we are a much different team. We run alot less for example; we are actually amongst the bottom teams for distance run and sprints whereas even last season we were amongst the top end, even though we scaled back compared to the heyday of gung-ho Kloppball. And Slot is far more conscientious in terms of substitutions from both a fitness and game-managing aspect, bringing on people like Endo to close a game with 15/20 minutes left repeatedly when one of Klopp's failings was not making subs at all. And then of course dealing with the contract situation for undoubtedly our three most important players, which to say the least has been distracting.



Good post, and this bit in particular, I keep saying that Slot has very sensibly toned down the heavy metal football to create something mroe sustainable - is it really a coincidence that this has allowed Salah and Van Dyke to get back to their very best? Plus the rest of the forward line with Diaz, Gakpo, Nunez (for all his misses, he's a real presence) and Jota is a force to be reckoned with even before you start talking about Salah.

Slot was hardly starting at ground zero but he's taken a team everyone was saying was clapped out and needing serious rejuvenation back to a very high level

[IBK]

I really don't disagree with much of what you have said, but is having a world class player admittedly in incredible form down to luck? Couldn't we then point to any good player on any team and discount what they are doing? Long term; Arsenal without Saka, Chelsea without Palmer etc. Fact is, for now at least we do have Salah and he's in unbelievable form but I don't put that down to luck. Plus, when we were without him last season for a chunk of 10 games or so, down to injury and AFCON our results stayed steady.

And I do think it is doing a disservice to what Slot has done at Liverpool this year. We were of course left in a fantastic position thanks to Klopp, given last season we weren't far away, except for a calamitous drop off after a 2-2 draw with United (ah shit). But even with that we are a much different team. We run alot less for example; we are actually amongst the bottom teams for distance run and sprints whereas even last season we were amongst the top end, even though we scaled back compared to the heyday of gung-ho Kloppball. And Slot is far more conscientious in terms of substitutions from both a fitness and game-managing aspect, bringing on people like Endo to close a game with 15/20 minutes left repeatedly when one of Klopp's failings was not making subs at all. And then of course dealing with the contract situation for undoubtedly our three most important players, which to say the least has been distracting.

And even with everything else, following Klopp absolutely nobody (myself included) though we'd even be in the conversation, regardless of City's drop off, so the sheer fact we are is surprising.

We've still had our fair share of injuries, with the likes of Alisson, Konate and Jota out for multiple weeks. Even squadies like Tsimikas, Elliott and Bradley have had weeks/months out, when they've been solid alternates or even better options. I'm not one to put things down to luck one way or the other, but you have had the bulk of your team fit for the whole of last season. Now that you are having injuries to the likes of Saka is that unlucky or a natural progression/consequence of previous years? We've had the same previously so it's not even a criticism per se, but naturally going 100% leads to a drop off somewhere along the line.

All that being said, and I think this is quoting another post somewhere, I actually do think we have massively dropped off form in the last few weeks, though it hasn't necessarily translated through to results yet. Defensively we are nowhere near as comfortable, which I do think has coincided with Konate's injury; but ultimately it's whether the drop off in play leads on to more dropped points (I think that will happen regardless) or we ride that out and our form picks up. With more games coming up more quickly I think that will lead to a natural drop (btw I think our performances in the cups and in Europe has been overlooked) which will therefore lead to more opportunities but I don't know if any team is strong enough to capitalise properly anyway.

Whilst I'm prattling on (and this isn't a direct reply to your post), I do think Saliba's red card was totally fair. The red for Rice was very harsh but equally he was a fucking idiot who gave another idiot the option to send him off. I always remember going back years now Mascherano being sent off for the one week answering back/arguing with the ref was an automatic red. The next week that rule was gone...

It is quite funny though how similar both of our seasons have been so far, compared to last year. And for the same reasons, both teams are sat here thinking we won't have to do the same again, and it will still be enough..... and City somehow still nick it by winning 11 on the bounce without anyone noticing.

Love the post mate. Don't get me wrong - I was not trying to argue that having an in form, incredible player is lucky in itself. It's all part and parcel of the game. The more subtle point I was making was that Slot (who has done an incredible job coming into your club - dont get me wrong) has benefitted from this factor outside anything tactical that he might have done. I would imagine that not even Liverpool fans saw the level of goals and assists that Salah has achieved since August. I don't follow Liverpool closely, but my impression is that Slot's 'genius' (if we want to put it this way), has been to have the lack of ego to see that he inherited an extremely strong team capable of challenging for the title, and been content to tweak this to make it more defensively resiliant/efficient (in the manner you have set out), and curb slightly the raw emotion that Klopp's incarnation showed - that ran out of steam in the end last of season.


I think that the assumption was that the task of a new manager coming in would see Liverpool drop off, and in this many commentators ignored the inherent strength and experience of your team. As you point out, a further mistake made was assuming that the drop off from last season was a general trend rather than something that could be arrested.


Coming back to Arsenal however, I do think it's fair to say that if (1) Odegard had not been out for 2 months - and playing to his ceiling like Salah has, or (2) Saka had not been injured on 21 December, we would not be 6 points behind you. I take what you are saying about injuries - all teams have them - but these 2 players are as important to us as Salah is to you. By way of an example - when Saliba got injured 2 seasons ago, that was our season done. It's key injuries that are the issue here. Alisson's injury did not derail you as Kellerher stepped up. Jota is am amazing player but with your strength in depth in the forward line and Salah's form, his absence was not really felt. Granted, Slot has managed Konate's absence well - we have done the same with Ben White; Zinchenko; Calafiori.


Key injuries are hurting us, and I emphasised that I think that there is a degree of negligence and naivity in our manager - and club in general - thinking that a depleted strength forward line would be able to get us to where we want to be this season. I acknowledged also that we lived a charmed life with injuries last season - and I agree with you that over playing certain players and not rotating is costing us now. It's ironic that the one player who has been most carefully managed - Nwaneri - is our latest crock.


As for refereeing decisions. I get it. We can debate these. They happen. What is difficult for Gooners to take is that the a number of the decisions that have directly led to dropped points have been made against us, but noone else. Despite this, I don't think that we can 'blame' decisions for our mediocre form - acquisition and management of player resources is a bigger factor - but when it comes to our own fans with knives out for Arteta, it is IMO fair to offer up our treatment by POGMOL in mitigation.

[Mac76]

Zinchenko

Both in terms of the quality of the player and also what he stamds for in terms of how the team has set up with him in it, this is the worst signing at Arsenal since Mustafi.

[Mac76]

Yet you berated me when I expressed frustration about it on countless occasions :shrug:

I think I just indicated you were getting a bit over the top about it, that said it's maybe taken me longer to appreciate how much he offers when in midfield atm, and how we lose without it

[IBK]

Both in terms of the quality of the player and also what he stamds for in terms of how the team has set up with him in it, this is the worst signing at Arsenal since Mustafi.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think that this is nonsense. Even if you think (I don't) that his signing was a disaster, to suggest that he was a worse signing than Willian; Soares; Ceballos (to name players we depended on - there are many more utter duds) etc IMO betrays unjustified bias. I'm not denying his defensive weakness and lapses in concentration but for a lot of his time his technical ability and ball-playing skills have been key for Arsenal's build-up play, and to focus on the downsides while ignoring the benefits of the player simply fits the scapegoat narrative. I will be roasted on here for defending a player who has become a chosen lightening rod - just like I was with Xhaka - but I don't really care about following the crowd.

[Mac76]

I thought Ceballos wasn't so bad, he certainly wasn't as responsible for so many disasters/near-disasters as Zin (who served up at least one in any game he featured in) and that was in a much less disciplined team

Likewise Willian was a waste of space but he didn't costs us goals and near-goal chances regularly

and Soares didn't really play much

Xhaka had one decent season out of six

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arsenal: Raya; Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Lewis-Skelly; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Havertz, Trossard.
Subs: Porter, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Calafiori, jorginho, Merino, Sterling, Jesus

With the exception that I’d rather have Calafiori than Lewis-Skelly this is the kind of team that I’d have liked to have seen starting on Saturday.

It does make me worry that Captain Black has prioritised this pointless competition over the league

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arsenal: Raya; Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Lewis-Skelly; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Havertz, Trossard.
Subs: Porter, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Calafiori, jorginho, Merino, Sterling, Jesus

With the exception that I’d rather have Calafiori than Lewis-Skelly this is the kind of team that I’d have liked to have seen starting on Saturday.

It does make me worry that Captain Black has prioritised this pointless competition over the league

Oh wrong thread

Well done me :lol:

[Mac76]

Oh wrong thread

Well done me :lol:

well it's as accurate as most of your posts :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

well it's as accurate as most of your posts :haha:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/66/CrumbLaugh.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

Another once in a lifetime penalty afflicts us, all in the same season. Coincidence is a painful bitch, if you believe she exists. The fact VAR can review this and still reach the same conclusion gives you the purpose of VAR - to make blatant cheating appear authoritative. There is so much scope for the endlessly exposed corruption in football to be expressed. This corruption is self evident, but the question remains - why? Bias, influence, I don't think so. I continue to go with money - the gambling markets. That still makes the most sense.