Newcastle v Arsenal. League Cup Semi Final Second Leg. 5th Feb. 20:00

[Marc Overmars]

We’re probably going out but hopefully it’s not without a fight.

10 days off including a trip to Dubai after this, so the players can have their rest then. For tonight though, give it a fucking good go please. It’s not an impossible task.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So we are looking at gallant defeat, like with Bayern in 2013 and Monaco in 2015?

I would be upset about this if I gave a shit about the league cup but I don’t

[Letters]

Yeah. I don't really care. Probably better to lose actually if Spurs finish the job.
No thanks to a NLD Cup Final :sick:

[Mac76]

3-0 Isak hatter

I feel strangely optimistic about this one, hopefully the Citeh game allows us to ride a wave and if we get a good start then the turnaround's on

And people are still plain wrong if they don't think it would be good for the players' confidence to win this competition

plus for fans a day out at Wembley would be fun :beer: :scarf:

but no, not if it's going to be an NLD :sulk: - must admit it had escaped me that Spuds had won the first one 1-0 but surely Liverpool at home will have the edge :pray:

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s a funny thing, on one hand there is likely to be no parallel between how we did against City and how we do here. It feels like I’m diminishing what we did by saying City played into our hands, but it’s not. I think when we take the handbrake off we can absolutely destroy attacking sides (especially those who play out from the back). On the other hand we are a confidence team, and even though we won’t have anywhere near the same space we had against City, it was lack of confidence that meant we fluffed the chances we did create in the first leg.


At its absolute best I don’t think there is a side this team can’t beat. If Newcastle concede early and panic, it’s possible that we will get the bloodlust like we did in the last thirty minutes on Sunday…we won’t overthink things it will just be natural.


Given we have ten days before we play Leicester, despite what I said a few weeks ago…we might as well play our strongest team.

[IBK]

Should be an interesting game...as long as Newcastle don't score first.

Problem is that they seem to have our number - particularly at St James' Park.

Pleeease - no injuries :pray:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Should be an interesting game...as long as Newcastle don't score first.

Problem is that they seem to have our number - particularly at St James' Park.

Pleeease - no injuries :pray:

Do they? They beat us 1-0 last season and then we turned them over at the Emirates. In our last encounter, We absolutely fell into the trap they laid for us in the league cup, but I’d argue that was a result of tired legs and tired minds. For me they are Stoke City with a world class striker. And I don’t think for all my issues with Arteta that we are bullied as easily as we were under Wenger.

Even if this is as far as we go tonight with the league cup. I’d still be confident of getting a home win over them. They have a thinner squad than we do, and they have looked tired. Bournemouth ran them ragged and Fulham they huffed and puffed a bit like us and ultimately shot their bolt.

I agree with you scoring first will kill the game off as they will be happy to just sit back and repel our attacks.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Newcastle: Dubravka, Trippier, Schar, Burn, Botman, Hall, Guimaraes, Tonali, Murphy, Isak, Gordon.
Subs: Pope, Wilson, Targett, Krafth, Osula, Livramento, Willock, Longstaff, Miley.

Arsenal: Raya, Timber, Gabriel, Saliba, Lewis-Skelly, Partey, Odegaard, Rice, Trossard, Havertz, Martinelli
Subs: Setford, Calafiori, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Jorginho, Merino, Nwaneri, Sterling

[HCZ_Reborn]

Newcastle: Dubravka, Trippier, Schar, Burn, Botman, Hall, Guimaraes, Tonali, Murphy, Isak, Gordon.
Subs: Pope, Wilson, Targett, Krafth, Osula, Livramento, Willock, Longstaff, Miley.

Arsenal: Raya, Timber, Gabriel, Saliba, Lewis-Skelly, Partey, Odegaard, Rice, Trossard, Havertz, Martinelli
Subs: Setford, Calafiori, Zinchenko, Tierney, Kiwior, Jorginho, Merino, Nwaneri, Sterling

I’m confused by this

Is Odegaard playing behind Rice or did the person releasing the team news just felt it better to get Odegaard typed up and out of the way before writing the word Rice. Utter pedantry on my part, but I find no sports site actually resembles how we line up.


But either way, playing the same starting XI that beat City…can’t really knock that

[Mac76]

I’m confused by this

Is Odegaard playing behind Rice or did the person releasing the team news just felt it better to get Odegaard typed up and out of the way before writing the word Rice. Utter pedantry on my part, but I find no sports site actually resembles how we line up.


But either way, playing the same starting XI that beat City…can’t really knock that

Normally team lineups work from left to right, as you would be looking at the team if you were the opposition - hence Timber being listed as the first defender, because (from an opposition point of view) he's to the left

in our setup Rice is more or less beside Odegaard with Odegaard on the left (again from the opposition point of view)

oh and this game is listed as Newcastle v Arsenal so it's an away game

let us know if you need to be told any more football basics

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Goal disallowed. :lol:

[dazthegooner]

Why were Newcastle fans signing same old Arsenal always cheating ?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Raya and Saliba. :haha:

[Mac76]

Why were Newcastle fans signing same old Arsenal always cheating ?

every team does, it's just a pathetic song sung against the team which cheats less than any other IMO

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Odegaard, wtf.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 Murphy. Fuck.

[Mac76]

Murphy 3-0

[HCZ_Reborn]

Normally team lineups work from left to right, as you would be looking at the team if you were the opposition - hence Timber being listed as the first defender, because (from an opposition point of view) he's to the left

in our setup Rice is more or less beside Odegaard with Odegaard on the left (again from the opposition point of view)

oh and this game is listed as Newcastle v Arsenal so it's an away game

let us know if you need to be told any more football basics


Are you honestly telling me you can’t tell the difference between a team formation lineup and just an ordinary lineup (which doesn’t shift depending on whether you’re the home or away team)

[Mac76]

Are you honestly telling me you can’t tell the difference between a team formation lineup and just an ordinary lineup (which doesn’t shift depending on whether you’re the home or away team)

I genuinely don't understand this post, take a few deep breaths before you reply

[Niall_Quinn]

Did that geordie at least get booked for his red card challenge?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Was just about to comment on Odegaard's miss being almost as bad as Havertz's on Sunday only for Newcastle to finish any sentence I'd want to make :doh:

[Mac76]

If it's still 3-0 at HT Arteta should just give up and take off Havertz, Ode etc and put Merino, Sterling etc on

[HCZ_Reborn]

I genuinely don't understand this post, take a few deep breaths before you reply

Well there’s plenty of things you clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding for but I have to at least give you credit for admitting it in this instance

[Marc Overmars]

No injuries please lads. Unless you want to make this an even more miserable non-event than it’s already turned out to be.

[Mac76]

Well there’s plenty of things you clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding for but I have to at least give you credit for admitting it in this instance

at least I understand: the format of how a fixture is listed; how lineups are listed; and that goals and assists are very important features of the game

[HCZ_Reborn]

Huh so it turns out that they do have our number somewhat. Especially seem able to play on our nerves, shaking like shitting dogs out there.

Equally you can’t count on a confidence bounce from one game where the team plays to your strengths to a game where one plays on your weaknesses

[Niall_Quinn]

Amazing when you see that Gakpo "penalty" given then none of the pens tonight even mentioned. Literally got both arms wrapped around our players on every corner. Part of the game, init?

[Niall_Quinn]

Martinelli needs to push the ball and go, instead of taking that extra touch every time and slowing it all down.

[Mac76]

f**k off Trippier you spud c***

[Niall_Quinn]

Partey as well. Obviously Newcastle don't agree to play at his tempo so he needs to stop fucking around as if it's a wrm-up.

[Marc Overmars]

Isak is such a complete striker.

If there’s any crumb of hope that we could sign him in the summer the club needs to go all out.

[dazthegooner]

Trippier showing no matter who he plays for he’s still a cunt.

[HCZ_Reborn]

at least I understand: the format of how a fixture is listed; how lineups are listed; and that goals and assists are very important features of the game

You’ve given me good reason to doubt at least two of the things you’ve claimed here

[Niall_Quinn]

Very poor. Mostly silly mistakes. We look like City out there.

[Mac76]

This game is showing why two-legged semis are just a waste of time, they really need to scrap it

[Niall_Quinn]

This game is showing why two-legged semis are just a waste of time, they really need to scrap it

Why? Doubt we need any more America in our sport.

[Niall_Quinn]

So poor. Shocking by Havertz.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh fuck off.

I recant everything I said earlier, we should have played the kids

[Niall_Quinn]

Martinelli hamstring by the look of it.

[Mac76]

Martinelli's done his hammy now, what a night and another hour to go...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now I’m pissed off. I can handle losing in a nothing competition. Another fucking injury though

[Niall_Quinn]

Nwaneri on for him. And here it is, the fate of the club in the hands of a 17 year old who isn't allowed in the grown-ups dressing room yet. Can't be right, can it? He's a great prospect, but are we really expecting him to bring us home in the PL and CL? Has to be some sort of fan trolling going on.

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli hamstring? :haha:

Couldn’t make this up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Martinelli hamstring? :haha:

Couldn’t make this up.

Don't think inevitability is that difficult to write. We were always going to get a couple of injuries between now and the end.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gabriel needs to stick his boot up Trippier's arsehole. What a horrible little shit that bloke it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Are Newcastle the only team that can beat us 11 vs 11 and without horrible officiating?

Seems so this season

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gabriel needs to stick his boot up Trippier's arsehole. What a horrible little shit that bloke it.

He’d probably enjoy it

[Niall_Quinn]

Those cheating cunts just got Havertz booked with all their playacting. A nothing challenge.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is there any reason why Saliba is playing like he’s got brain damage.

Has he been sniffing glue

[Niall_Quinn]

Now Saliba in the book. Think we know how this all ends.

[Mac76]

I'm hoping these yellows don't count in the PL or this is getting worse and worse

This isn't football it's circus - the Roman variety

[Marc Overmars]

Are Newcastle the only team that can beat us 11 vs 11 and without horrible officiating?

Seems so this season

Probably because they’re one of the few teams who can match us for physicality.

The only difference is they have a worldie up top.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is there any reason why Saliba is playing like he’s got brain damage.

Has he been sniffing glue

Perhaps he saw our January transfer activity and is now coasting through until his move to Real?

[Mac76]

The only difference is they have a worldie up top.

And the refs let them commit GBH on a regular basis

[HCZ_Reborn]

No it’s definitely more the clowns variety

Saliba just needs a rainbow wig and white face paint at this point

[Niall_Quinn]

Sliced right through us there. Don't think we are up for this anymore. And hollybops beckon.

[Marc Overmars]

We’re clearly ready for the beach now.

Only instructions for the second half should be to keep it respectable and not to over exert.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Perhaps he saw our January transfer activity and is now coasting through until his move to Real?

No it’s definitely more a brain dysfunction

Perhaps he’s picked up CJD from eating a dodgy burger in France

He’s well on track to start frothing at the mouth and lose control of his legs altogether

[Niall_Quinn]

Either we've just decided to be lazy as fuck this game or else the players are sticking so rigidly to a system they are quite happy to mark an empty midfield while Necastle pile forward. Party is at least 30 yards off the game at the moment.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 HT. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

HT, really poor. Although the ref has given Newcastle a free pass when it comes to breaking up the play by all means fair and foul.

But generally the tempo is so low we haven't really forced them out of second gear. Don't think anyone wants to be here.

MLS has been decent, he's done what he's had to do and been tidy on most occassions. Gabriel mostly okay. Martinelli was lively but wasteful.

Rest of them? Probably heading straight to the airport hotel after this.

[Mac76]

We need to take off Havert, Nwanerei, MLS and Saliba at this point, the game's gone, let's look after people

These fucking two-legged ties are BS

[Niall_Quinn]

I wonder if that certain red card that wasn't given was what actually did Martinelli and then he aggravated it further the next time he was hacked down with no sanctions?

Vicious foul that first one, 100% a red but he's not playing in red so there's that.

[Mac76]

I wonder if that certain red card that wasn't given was what actually did Martinelli and then he aggravated it further the next time he was hacked down with no sanctions?


Wouldn't be surprised

[Niall_Quinn]

Newcastle "defending"

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2025/2/5/06e17634-49fd-430b-92d2-58317dd34565.jpg.webp

[Mac76]

Guimeres booked :faint:

[Niall_Quinn]

Finally a yellow for the geordies after another nasty foul designed to injure.

[Mac76]

Gordon :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Gets worse the more you look at it. Lunging, studs up, out of control, but BELOW the ankle - so the ref has sent off MLS.

[Niall_Quinn]

Havertz must have loaned Gordon a pair of boots.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a fuck up. 2-0.

[Mac76]

game over, this is bullshit, we're just making fools of ourselves, can't we just forfeit it now?

[Mac76]

stupid ball from Raya

[Niall_Quinn]

Raya has been asking for that all game long. Utter stupidity and not the first time this season either.

[Niall_Quinn]

And he'll do it again.

[Marc Overmars]

Woeful.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Maybe in Dubai we can work on dealing with the high press

Because at the moment Newcastle doing to us what we did to City. We’ve looked appalling out of possession all evening. This is Wenger era stuff

[Niall_Quinn]

Given how this ref is letting everything go and it's pretty vicious out there, shouldn't we at least be subbing Havertz? Some of these assaults going on are pretty brutal. High risk of injuries here.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just don't have anything that's a threat in the box. Everyone is around the edge or playing with back to goal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Newcastle get the FK for a foul on Havertz.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kicking the ball away. No card.

[Mac76]

This is sensible, Trossard and Ode comong off for Merino and Sterling, we should also be taking Havertz and Nwaneri off for Zin and Tierney

Doesn't matter what formation, it's just about looking after players now

[Niall_Quinn]

Odegard and Trossard off.

Sterling and Merino on. Newcastle are in deep shit now!

[Niall_Quinn]

Come on, the kid has broken his arse to get the ball in there but nobody anywhere near it!

Starting to think we need a striker.

[Niall_Quinn]

We only need 4 goals so we're being patient.

[Niall_Quinn]

So like Arsenal of old. Brilliant result on Sunday that has the club buzzing, then the owners shit on everyone from a great height on the Monday, and on the Wednesday we completely fail to turn up. Like a rollercoaster that plunges into a sewer.

[Marc Overmars]

It is a bit annoying that we’ve gone so long without winning this competition. All the top clubs have won it multiple times since 1993 except for us. I guess when it’s treated with such antipathy that will filter through to the team in some ways too.

[Niall_Quinn]

How is that not a yellow? This is ridiculous.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is a bit annoying that we’ve gone so long without winning this competition. All the top clubs have won it multiple times since 1993 except for us. I guess when it’s treated with such antipathy that will filter through to the team in some ways too.

We've won one FA Cup during the Kroenke era. It's not just a disinterest in this competition.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can’t help treating it with antipathy, maybe if it was a worthwhile competition and not a mixture between a way of blooding youngsters and unnecessary fixture congestion

[Niall_Quinn]

I wish we could get a couple of goals just to say we turned up and made a game of it.

Not the slightest glimmer of that happening though.

A non-event, but still damaging to the club.

[Mac76]

So like Arsenal of old. Brilliant result on Sunday that has the club buzzing, then the owners shit on everyone from a great height on the Monday, and on the Wednesday we completely fail to turn up. Like a rollercoaster that plunges into a sewer.

There's no way I'm beating up the team after the January we had, nine games, a small squad, arsehole refs, injuries etc etc

It's just a result of everything that's been thrown at us and we've just started doing uncharacteristically dumb stuff

[Niall_Quinn]

I can’t help treating it with antipathy, maybe if it was a worthwhile competition and not a mixture between a way of blooding youngsters and unnecessary fixture congestion

Completely the wrong way to think about it. Winners would be thinking, beat this lot then get hold of Liverpool in the final and beat them too, make a statement, put pressure on them.

But I don't think you win a lot of prize money in this one, do you? So hardly worth it.

There's never a reason to treat a match with antipathy because it takes the edge off and always come back to haunt you.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's no way I'm beating up the team after the January we had, nine games, a small squad, arsehole refs, injuries etc etc

It's just a result of everything that's been thrown at us and we've just started doing uncharacteristically dumb stuff

Talking more about the club than the team. It has a clinical way of obliterating hope.

[Marc Overmars]

The players haven’t really given a shit across the 2 legs so I don’t anticipate any knock on effects here. The damage was already done 3 weeks ago, tonight was always a long shot.

Get them off to Dubai to regroup and hopefully conjure up whatever they did this time last year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's no way I'm beating up the team after the January we had, nine games, a small squad, arsehole refs, injuries etc etc

It's just a result of everything that's been thrown at us and we've just started doing uncharacteristically dumb stuff

Hmmm

I actually agree with this. I think there was enough interest in this game to make it worth risking the first team. And I do think it needs to be addressed how easy it is for them to shit us up. And I don’t just mean the thuggery, they’d be beating us without that…which makes it doubly unnecessary.

Best to just chalk it up as one of those things and move on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Calafiori and Jorginho on
Partey and Timber off

At least we have an extra man now.

[Mac76]

pel by Burn, not given naturally

[Niall_Quinn]

These excuses are what have delivered up 2 decades of failure. Momentum is important. We needed to go away from here at least thinking, okay we gave it a go. But this has been a stroll to defeat, first team or not. Nothing good can be said about that or come from it.

[Mac76]

Liverpool had better beat Spuds tomorrow for sure

[Niall_Quinn]

Is that a joke?

NO PEN?

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucking hell, that's hilarious.

[Mac76]

Ref making sure he books a few more Arsenal players before he runs out of time

[Niall_Quinn]

Sterling booked :haha:

Or was it MLS. For a challenge that has been happening all night.

[Letters]

Starting to think we might not turn this around :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

I think they believe they are untouchable now and they can just do what they want and they'll be backed up by their mates at Sky.

[Niall_Quinn]

And now Rice does that cheat Bruno but no yellow? I have no idea what the rules are any more. I think they must be random.

[Mac76]

Rice telling Trippier to fuck off :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Isak gets MOTM probably because he has a big fee - certainly wasn't for his performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

We could be here all night trying to score.

[Mac76]

MLS :lol:

[Mac76]

4 mins ET then it's all over :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, MLS could have done better there. It's just not going to go in though. Not tonight.

[Niall_Quinn]

That Bruno bloke goes off, he must have committed 50 fouls in that game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Schar booked for his persistent (as in non-stop for 90 minutes) fouing.

[Letters]

The Quadruple :rose:

The Treble :bow:

[Mac76]

it's over :patrice::dance::yippee::jumpnana:

[Niall_Quinn]

And for the last act of the game the corner kick goes straight to the keeper. You could summarise this match right there. Non-event.

[Mac76]

The Quadruple :rose:

The Treble :bow:

you know we're out of the FAC already right?

it's the double now*


*hate to be a spoilsport but we're not doing that either**



** or the single

[Niall_Quinn]

I suppose it's legit to call the geordies cheating arabs now? But they also cruised it, we didn't lay a glove on them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Like the Girona match. You can't hope to build consistency with performances like these.

Title definitely gone now. Was a slim chance to begin with but this game tells us there's no way this sqaud has the capability to overcome all the varied challenges it will face over the next couple of months.

Kroenke gets his way. Another season down the shitter and promises for next.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Three games, no goals against them. :lol:

Maybe we'll get it right at the fourth time of asking.

[Mac76]

Like the Girona match.

You know we won that 3-0 right?

or have you joined the HCZ School, which believes goals are irrelevant?

[Niall_Quinn]

You know we won that 3-0 right?

or have you joined the HCZ School, which believes goals are irrelevant?

No, I believe the performance was appalling against appalling opposition. You can string together ramshackle results all you want and even pretend it's progress, but then you smash headlong into the brick wall of a decent side and you better not be fuelled up with the bare minimum.

[Marc Overmars]

A waste of everyone’s time. :lol:

Shambolic effort over the 2 legs really.

[Niall_Quinn]

And if we were just going to fuck this game down the drain tonight, why not send out the kids for a run? All we've achieved now is an injury to a key player. We tried for nothing and got less than nothing back.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You know we won that 3-0 right?

or have you joined the HCZ School, which believes goals are irrelevant?

At least when I use you as a yardstick to make a point with, I actually cite things you’ve said/believe

Also we won 2-1 not 3-0

Silly boy

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Beat Man City 5-1 yet it ends up being a terrible week.

Arsenal. :bow:

They've done it again.

[LDG]

I suppose it's legit to call the geordies cheating arabs now? But they also cruised it, we didn't lay a glove on them.

First game killed it. We had no choice but to hold a high line and try and attack today, and with players as good as they have in the channels it was a bust.

To be fair to Newcastle they have our number because of their quality defending and ability to transition quickly, and make it count. Bit like Liverpool in that respect. We have to come up with a game plan somewhere inbetween the high press and the deep line.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bit dispiriting, again not because we’ve gone out of a pointless competition but because it feels like at least with Arteta there was a bit of a pay off that we wouldn’t get Stoked by teams. The thuggery was unnecessary because they were able to bully us legitimately. Saliba looked like Phillipe Senderos tonight, the only comfort I can take is that Isaak made Van Dijk look like a complete cunt when they played there in December.

It was pathetically and dismissively easy for them. And I think we’ve sacrificed too much entertainment in our football for that to be easy to swallow.

[Mac76]

Also we won 2-1 not 3-0


Fair point, I was thinking of Zagreb

[LDG]

The Quadruple :rose:

The Treble :bow:

:eek:

[Mac76]

To be fair to Newcastle they have our number because of their quality defending and ability to transition quickly, and make it count.

And of course their ref-given freedom to kick us around the park with barely any sanction

[LDG]

Forgotten the emoji names :doh:

[LDG]

And of course their ref-given freedom to kick us around the park with barely any sanction

Michael Oliver’s revenge

[dazthegooner]

Tbh it’s always disappointing when we lose but going out of this cup doesn’t bother me would he have been nice to win it but all in all MEH!

[Letters]

you know we're out of the FAC already right?

…oh yeah :lol:

Me :pal:

[dazthegooner]

Michael Oliver’s revenge

Probably treat himself to a nice brass heard they are cheep down the meat matket (Bacardi breezer and a couple of fags)

[IBK]

Not going to weep into my cornflakes over this result.

The tie was effectively won in the first leg, given that (yes HCZ ;) ) Newcastle are a team that have our number - particularly at their place.

I'll admit to having only seen the 'highlights' and read the reports (was in late and frantically trying to get my Now TV day pass when I heard in radio commentary that Isak had scored - didn't realise that it was disallowed :pal: - and saved myself £15).

While Sunday's result built a bit of confidence going into this game, it now seems clear that Citeh played into our hands a bit - but with game state pressure and against a team that (1) has a midfield; (2) is excellent in transition and (3) knows how to defend - we were humbled. It's almost embarrassing the ease with which Newcastle dealt with us in this tie.

More worrying is the fact that by all accounts we looked utterly spent...and that our vulnerability to quick transitions when playing far too high up the pitch has been a distinct feature of this season.

I'm sure Dubai will help, and it's as silly to look at last night's game and conclude that we are a shit team as it is for us to look at Sunday and believe we are world beaters. But our frailties and squad deficiencies are there for all to see, and looking across the current season, this is not a team that is going to win anything, alas.

[Letters]

Just watched that second goal again :haha:

FFS, what is this obsession with playing out from the back? I'm not saying you never do it but when you're being closed down by that and all the players near you are marked, just get rid of it ffs!

[Mac76]

More worrying is the fact that by all accounts we looked utterly spent...and that our vulnerability to quick transitions when playing far too high up the pitch has been a distinct feature of this season.

As much as I thought winning the LC would be good for the players (and I stand by that) maybe it's not such a bad thing to be beaten by Liverpool in the final or even worse Spuds. In retrospect we should really have played kids/reserves in that competition from start to finish, where it's good experience and losing would not be something to criticise anyone for

I'm sure Dubai will help, and it's as silly to look at last night's game and conclude that we are a shit team as it is for us to look at Sunday and believe we are world beaters. But our frailties and squad deficiencies are there for all to see, and looking across the current season, this is not a team that is going to win anything, alas.

yes we are spent but I do think Dubai will help.

I also think Arteta is going to have to think ever more laterally - e.g. from what it says about Butler-Oyedeji on the website, he's played a bit in League One, where teams mix it a bit, can he really not be given 15-20 minutes at at the end of a game to give Havertz a breather?

As for not winning anything, the league is gone and yes the CL looks like a very remote possibility, especially with Martinelli now out

I think Arteta will hopefully get funds this summer to either get Isak or Sesko or the like, plus one or two more, but then he's got one more season AFAIC before serious questions have to be asked

[Mac76]

Just watched that second goal again :haha:

FFS, what is this obsession with playing out from the back? I'm not saying you never do it but when you're being closed down by that and all the players near you are marked, just get rid of it ffs!

we've actually been kicking it long a lot more recently tbf, although with mixed results, but yes not good on that goal

[Letters]

As for not winning anything, the league is gone
I have no idea why people are conceding that this early.

<KeggyKeegle>We're still fighting for this title, and he's got to go to Everton and get something, and... and... I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them, love it!</KeggyKeegle>

If they beat Everton next week then yeah, I think it's over. But even if Everton draw...if gives us a bit of a chance. They didn't win their other game in hand.
As Oscar Wilde once said, "it ain't over till it's over".

For the record, if I was a betting man I'd definitely be putting my money on Liverpool. I just don't accept it's a done deal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Between the last international break and now we’ve had to play 21 games in 74 days. That is an average of a game every 3.5 days basically. With the injuries and what have you….its actually kind of impressive that we only lost twice (and in the least important of all the competitions, yeah we are out of the fa cup but technically that was a draw).

There’s been very little rotation to speak of, mainly because we haven’t been able to

It’s shit losing to Newcastle three times in one season for sure, but to be honest especially given my attitude towards the league cup I don’t feel any grounds to feel particularly resentful towards the players or the coach about this defeat

[Marc Overmars]

Don’t think this will have any knock on effects simply because I don’t think the desire for cup success is there within this squad or coach. Limp cup exits have been a recurring theme every season.

Just need to take our medicine and move on. If Dubai can recharge the batteries like it did last year then cool.

We’re probably going to win fuck all again for the 5th season running though which isn’t a good look for a club that’s spent it’s way into a position to win things.

[Letters]

we've actually been kicking it long a lot more recently tbf, although with mixed results, but yes not good on that goal

I guess the reasoning is if you boot it long there's a 50/50 chance you'll win the ball - so half the time you're immediately conceding possession. Obviously that percentage depends how good your midfielders are at winning the ball vs theirs. So I get the reasoning of playing it out - you're in control of the ball from the start. But you need the players to do it and you need to know when to do it. When you're under pressure and all the players nearby are being marked - just boot it. Worst that can happen is you'll lose possession, you won't immediately concede a goal like we did last night. Just poor decision making.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not going to weep into my cornflakes over this result.

The tie was effectively won in the first leg, given that (yes HCZ ;) ) Newcastle are a team that have our number - particularly at their place.

I'll admit to having only seen the 'highlights' and read the reports (was in late and frantically trying to get my Now TV day pass when I heard in radio commentary that Isak had scored - didn't realise that it was disallowed :pal: - and saved myself £15).

While Sunday's result built a bit of confidence going into this game, it now seems clear that Citeh played into our hands a bit - but with game state pressure and against a team that (1) has a midfield; (2) is excellent in transition and (3) knows how to defend - we were humbled. It's almost embarrassing the ease with which Newcastle dealt with us in this tie.

More worrying is the fact that by all accounts we looked utterly spent...and that our vulnerability to quick transitions when playing far too high up the pitch has been a distinct feature of this season.

I'm sure Dubai will help, and it's as silly to look at last night's game and conclude that we are a shit team as it is for us to look at Sunday and believe we are world beaters. But our frailties and squad deficiencies are there for all to see, and looking across the current season, this is not a team that is going to win anything, alas.

I don't think we were spent, not all the players anyway. I think the players were too inflexible in dealing with a brighter than expected Newcastle. Against city we saw Partey snapping into challenges and distributing the ball upfield. Against Newcastle he was marking empty space in the middle and had reverted to ball retention instead of distribution. Havertz played with his back to goal. Martinelli was receiving the ball in coverage rather than having it played into space in front of him. Yes you could say that's because Newcastle had a more energetic midfield than city, but I don't think it was that, I think we were less aggressive than in the city match, which may have come across as looking tired.

It was bad tactics. We knew Newcastle could play on the break and we didn't really have anything in the locker to counter that. We should have been taking advantage of them playing on the break, encouraging them to do it so we could get the ball back when they were at thir most vulnerable. Trouble is our defence didn't have the best of nights because I don't think they ere supported as energetically by the midfield.

It was interesting, all I could find last night was a stream with no sound so I watched the game in silence. No opinions from the commentators, just what I saw happening on the pitch. Rice, our MOTM on Sunday, and particularly Partey looked like they were refs rather than players, almost as if they were delibertly trying not to get in the way. Partey was often 30 yards off the play. As if we were fearful of what Newcastle could do. Bad tactics.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think we were spent, not all the players anyway. I think the players were too inflexible in dealing with a brighter than expected Newcastle. Against city we saw Partey snapping into challenges and distributing the ball upfield. Against Newcastle he was marking empty space in the middle and had reverted to ball retention instead of distribution. Havertz played with his back to goal. Martinelli was receiving the ball in coverage rather than having it played into space in front of him. Yes you could say that's because Newcastle had a more energetic midfield than city, but I don't think it was that, I think we were less aggressive than in the city match, which may have come across as looking tired.

It was bad tactics. We knew Newcastle could play on the break and we didn't really have anything in the locker to counter that. We should have been taking advantage of them playing on the break, encouraging them to do it so we could get the ball back when they were at thir most vulnerable. Trouble is our defence didn't have the best of nights because I don't think they ere supported as energetically by the midfield.

It was interesting, all I could find last night was a stream with no sound so I watched the game in silence. No opinions from the commentators, just what I saw happening on the pitch. Rice, our MOTM on Sunday, and particularly Partey looked like they were refs rather than players, almost as if they were delibertly trying not to get in the way. Partey was often 30 yards off the play. As if we were fearful of what Newcastle could do. Bad tactics.

Sometimes the other team just wants it more. This was everything to Newcastle. A club that hasn’t won anything for 70 years. They’d take finishing 17th and winning this if offered.

I don’t buy the fatigue side of things, we simply did not want this enough.

[Letters]

Sometimes the other team just wants it more. This was everything to Newcastle. A club that hasn’t won anything for 70 years. They’d take finishing 17th and winning this if offered.

I don’t buy the fatigue side of things, we simply did not want this enough.

:gp:

Honestly, we don't care about the League Cup. We the fans or we the players. Sure, they want to win games, they're obviously very competitive guys. But they're not going to go out there giving it everything like they did on Sunday. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have no idea why people are conceding that this early.

<KeggyKeegle>We're still fighting for this title, and he's got to go to Everton and get something, and... and... I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them, love it!</KeggyKeegle>

If they beat Everton next week then yeah, I think it's over. But even if Everton draw...if gives us a bit of a chance. They didn't win their other game in hand.
As Oscar Wilde once said, "it ain't over till it's over".

For the record, if I was a betting man I'd definitely be putting my money on Liverpool. I just don't accept it's a done deal.

I thought it was Lenny Kravitz

Anyway, no it’s not technically over. But there for me had to be a sign that we would be able to step in and take advantage of any Liverpool slip up. There have been some slip ups, we’ve taken advantage only then to give up that advantage in the next game.

Whilst I still believe that our strongest XI is better than theirs and that having Salah doesn’t make up the difference, they have seemingly more squad depth to call on up front. As much as I don’t rate Gakpo, in terms of goals at least there is more threat from him than Sterling or Trossard frankly. They’ve had their easy fixtures away from home sure but they seem able to navigate the harder fixtures too. It’s all about momentum, something we’ve simply not had at any time this season….i can’t remember winning more than three games in a row in all competitions (Liverpool have I think won four in a row on two occasions in the league and it’s been enough for them to notionally retain the advantage they’ve had over us since early November).
That’s the problem, we can say oh they are only x amount of points in front of us, and they are due for a downturn in results…but I’ve no faith we can take advantage of that. The sixteen wins in eighteen we got last season is beyond us, not because we aren’t as good but because we look too jaded.


You know how I feel, it’s for me a disgrace that we aren’t winning this title…and Arteta’s job should be forfeit. But whilst I’m still cross about it, you can only sustain anger so long until it becomes ambivalence and then indifference

[Letters]

I thought it was Lenny Kravitz
I was thinking Rocky but he was possibly quoting the former so either is acceptable.


Anyway, no it’s not technically over. But there for me had to be a sign that we would be able to step in and take advantage of any Liverpool slip up. There have been some slip ups, we’ve taken advantage only then to give up that advantage in the next game.
Agreed. We should be closer, and if Liverpool beat Everton then I think that gives us too much to do. But I'm hopeful. It's a derby. Everton have just picked up a bit of form.

My hope is that after Dubai and maybe with Saka coming back we can go on a run and put some real pressure on.
Head says that isn't going to happen but you never know in football. I continue to think your reaction to us not winning the title is a bit extreme but given the level of investment I agree questions need to be asked. Especially given the lack of a striker was such an obvious problem which wasn't addressed last summer or in January - interesting to see Arteta express some disappointment about that too, maybe putting a bit of pressure on the club to do more.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In regards to playing out from the back, the theory is at least is that if you just launch it long each time especially if your players are back in your own half of the pitch that you are simply giving the ball back to the opposition and inviting more pressure on your goal. In our case the problem is neither Rice or Partey are especially good at dealing with the high press, and whilst he’s been pretty unimpressive at Chelsea this is why I wanted us to sign Caicedo as a player who could play through the press (unfortunately from what I’ve seen at Chelsea, he’s also content to give the ball away under no pressure whatsoever….swings and roundabouts I guess :lol:)

[IBK]

I don't think we were spent, not all the players anyway. I think the players were too inflexible in dealing with a brighter than expected Newcastle. Against city we saw Partey snapping into challenges and distributing the ball upfield. Against Newcastle he was marking empty space in the middle and had reverted to ball retention instead of distribution. Havertz played with his back to goal. Martinelli was receiving the ball in coverage rather than having it played into space in front of him. Yes you could say that's because Newcastle had a more energetic midfield than city, but I don't think it was that, I think we were less aggressive than in the city match, which may have come across as looking tired.

It was bad tactics. We knew Newcastle could play on the break and we didn't really have anything in the locker to counter that. We should have been taking advantage of them playing on the break, encouraging them to do it so we could get the ball back when they were at thir most vulnerable. Trouble is our defence didn't have the best of nights because I don't think they ere supported as energetically by the midfield.

It was interesting, all I could find last night was a stream with no sound so I watched the game in silence. No opinions from the commentators, just what I saw happening on the pitch. Rice, our MOTM on Sunday, and particularly Partey looked like they were refs rather than players, almost as if they were delibertly trying not to get in the way. Partey was often 30 yards off the play. As if we were fearful of what Newcastle could do. Bad tactics.

I dunno - maybe physically that's true, but teams can also be mentally/emotionally drained, and I think that Sunday's high, combined with the pressure of having to reverse a 2 goal lead in the tie played its part. By all accounts we lacked the vibrance that we showed in our game against Citeh and as MO says, Newcastle, in front of their fans wanted it more.

Anyhow, f*ck Newcastle. I hope Liverpool beat them in the final, and that they fail to get CL next season. Maybe if they do we can take Isaak of their hands.

[IBK]

I have no idea why people are conceding that this early.

<KeggyKeegle>We're still fighting for this title, and he's got to go to Everton and get something, and... and... I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them, love it!</KeggyKeegle>

If they beat Everton next week then yeah, I think it's over. But even if Everton draw...if gives us a bit of a chance. They didn't win their other game in hand.
As Oscar Wilde once said, "it ain't over till it's over".

For the record, if I was a betting man I'd definitely be putting my money on Liverpool. I just don't accept it's a done deal.

I don't think it's a 'scientific' conclusion - more the eye test of what we have seen this season, and our deficiencies/lack of personnel and rotation options up front. Plus Liverpool's momentum. I agree that Liverpool aren't the Citeh of the previous 2 seasons, but every time we think they will drop points, either we do also or they find a way to win. We have rarely done the latter this season when up against it - and our experience thus far suggests that this trend is more likely than not to continue.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sometimes the other team just wants it more. This was everything to Newcastle. A club that hasn’t won anything for 70 years. They’d take finishing 17th and winning this if offered.

I don’t buy the fatigue side of things, we simply did not want this enough.

If you allow that into your game in the first place surely it gives room for doubt in how much we want the title? It's safer to want everything, always and then you know you're up for it when the biggest challenges arrive. Doesn't mean you'll win every game, always, because you assume your opponent wants it just as much as you and will do what it takes to get it. But to go out there allowing they might want it MORE than you - that's a dangerous attitude.

[Niall_Quinn]

I suppose it will be funny if Liverpool shuffle out of the cup tonight without giving it much thought. I don't think they will though - I think they'll smash the spuds to keep their momentum going. And the spuds, they need this, their manager MUST have it or else. Very similar to our own game. Let's see what Liverpool's attitude is like tonight. If they go out there and get the business done then the title run-in will be between a team that has momentum, advantage and attitude against a team that is inconsistent, disadvantaged (sometimes in more ways than just points) and will only turn up when they fancy it.

If I was a betting man...

[Marc Overmars]

If you allow that into your game in the first place surely it gives room for doubt in how much we want the title? It's safer to want everything, always and then you know you're up for it when the biggest challenges arrive. Doesn't mean you'll win every game, always, because you assume your opponent wants it just as much as you and will do what it takes to get it. But to go out there allowing they might want it MORE than you - that's a dangerous attitude.

Oh I agree with you. I bemoaned the fact we’ve not won this since 93 while the other top clubs have multiple times, on top of winning the big prizes too. Nothing in the past 20 years has enabled us to be as sneery as we are about this competition.

Anyway this team are not winners. The great pretenders unless something miraculously changes.

[Mac76]

:gp:

Honestly, we don't care about the League Cup. We the fans or we the players. Sure, they want to win games, they're obviously very competitive guys. But they're not going to go out there giving it everything like they did on Sunday. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

I still don't buy that the players didn't want to try for a Wembley final when they were only one game away, but once Newcastle had scored there was only going to be so long that everyone gave their all, that said I think players wre still trying to some extent but the legs just got tired

Also, and this isn't intended to be snobbish and/or an insult, but there are fans and fans - the people that would go to the final and have a good day out would care, but admittedly only once it became a real possibility

For me i feel down mainly because to the outside world we lost 4-0 to Newcasltle over two matches and that doesn't look good.

Where I do agree with the LC doubters is that it isn't worth risking good players' fitness over, at the beginning I said we should just play kids and reserves in this throughout, and then it's win-win really

btw I saw an argument somewwhere that it should just be for clubs outside the European places and I think there's good logic to that

[Mac76]

I dunno - maybe physically that's true, but teams can also be mentally/emotionally drained, and I think that Sunday's high, combined with the pressure of having to reverse a 2 goal lead in the tie played its part. By all accounts we lacked the vibrance that we showed in our game against Citeh and as MO says, Newcastle, in front of their fans wanted it more.

Anyhow, f*ck Newcastle. I hope Liverpool beat them in the final, and that they fail to get CL next season. Maybe if they do we can take Isaak of their hands.

agree with all of this, and on Isak, yes if he's not got european football or at least CL, and we open a big chequebook, there's a chance we could get him

[IBK]

I still don't buy that the players didn't want to try for a Wembley final when they were only one game away, but once Newcastle had scored there was only going to be so long that everyone gave their all, that said I think players wre still trying to some extent but the legs just got tired

Also, and this isn't intended to be snobbish and/or an insult, but there are fans and fans - the people that would go to the final and have a good day out would care, but admittedly only once it became a real possibility

For me i feel down mainly because to the outside world we lost 4-0 to Newcasltle over two matches and that doesn't look good.

Where I do agree with the LC doubters is that it isn't worth risking good players' fitness over, at the beginning I said we should just play kids and reserves in this throughout, and then it's win-win really

btw I saw an argument somewwhere that it should just be for clubs outside the European places and I think there's good logic to that

I see the argument for playing reserves in the LC, but the reality is that a club with intentions to win things does not 'throw' games, particularly a Semi Final - LC or not.

[Letters]

I still don't buy that the players didn't want to try for a Wembley final when they were only one game away
I wouldn't go that far, I'm sure they're trying to win every game. But there are some games that teams just get up for more than others.
Plus there are fine lines - Odegaard scores rather than thumping the post, different game.


Also, and this isn't intended to be snobbish and/or an insult, but there are fans and fans - the people that would go to the final and have a good day out would care, but admittedly only once it became a real possibility
I get a bit cross when people suggest that some fans are "better" than others because they follow things more closely. I was a season ticket holder for many years, now I barely watch. Things change in life. But I don't regard current season tickets as "better" than me. I actually think people who go home and away are probably a bit too wrapped up in it all, but people do what they do.
But certainly some people care more than others. And I do care much less than I used to. Which is probably healthy actually.