Arsenal vs Ammers 22.02.2025 - KO 15:00 GMT

[HCZ_Reborn]

So I’m going to start by singing the same tune that I expect I’ll be singing a lot between now and the end of the season, where the fuck are the goals going to be coming from?

As much as it’s an amusing diversion to see Liverpool drop points, the reason that defeats are becoming draws for them is that they’ve got Salah without who they would be struggling to stay in the top four right now given he’s scored almost 40% of their league goals.

We didn’t have that individual even before the scorers of 45% of our goals were made unavailable to us via injury.

Games like this fixture are treated like notional wins, because 9 times out of 10 or thereabouts we do win these games. This is an assumption we can no longer depend on. Frankly I’m going into every game with the assumption that we will drop points and that every win will be treated as a bonus.

With the paucity of goal scoring options that’s the only thing to do. It’s not to say we can’t win games, it’s just the removal of the assumption that we should win these games.


Anyway, no fresh injury concerns at least


0-3 Trevor Morley hat-trick or maybe a Morley brace and Julian Dicks gets a goal as well

[Marc Overmars]

0-0

[IBK]

I worry that the Merino trick won't work as well again. West Ham are better than Leicester. The crowd will get nervous if we don't score in the 1st half (in some respects we are better off playing away with our current problems). My heart says 1-0. My head says 0-0...or 0-1.

[Mac76]

0-3 Bowen hatter

[Letters]

I hope we win, tbh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We find goals from somewhere tbh so I'm not really worried about that.

So long as it's a clean sheet we'll win I think.

[Mac76]

I worry that the Merino trick won't work as well again.

I share that concern, although I do hope Arteta starts with him in the middle and Leo on the left, as much as anything because Leo is so much better there than in the middle

If Sterling has any value at all (something that's becoming increasingly questionnable) it's surely to come on later when the game is stretched

[HCZ_Reborn]

I share that concern, although I do hope Arteta starts with him in the middle and Leo on the left, as much as anything because Leo is so much better there than in the middle

If Sterling has any value at all (something that's becoming increasingly questionnable) it's surely to come on later when the game is stretched

Yeah Trossard has been far more effective as a creator than a goalscorer, he looked far better when he moved left against Leicester for sure.

I don’t expect Merino to start producing goals regularly because that would be far too fairytale. But we simply have nothing to lose by playing him up front, if nothing else he’s reasonably ok at holding the ball up. He won’t run anywhere near as much as Havertz but hopefully he won’t have to

[Mac76]

He won’t run anywhere near as much as Havertz but hopefully he won’t have to

Arteta absolutely has to refrain from ordering him to get back to defend at every opportunity, though I'll believe it when I see it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fortunately Arteta might expect him to, but physical reality might have different demands :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Raya, Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori, Partey, Rice, Odegaard, Nwaneri, Trossard, Merino.

Swap Rice and Partey around and this is the lineup I would have chosen

[Niall_Quinn]

I worry that the Merino trick won't work as well again. West Ham are better than Leicester. The crowd will get nervous if we don't score in the 1st half (in some respects we are better off playing away with our current problems). My heart says 1-0. My head says 0-0...or 0-1.

Merino won't work at all. It was an end of game, no defensive plan situation against Leicester. He was in miles of space for both goals, defence didn't pick him up. They'll be all over him like a rash today if he starts, so he'll need to display a lot of the striker abilities he doesn't have.

I'd prefer to give Nwaneri a go through the middle. Trossard is better out wide.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on Arsenal!

Keep the 5+ run against West Ham going. :pray:

[Niall_Quinn]

All Arsenal but it's more tippety-tap than actual attack. Merino, unsurprisingly, doesn't have a clue how to play the striker role. Trossard got a cross in, Merino nowhere, ball goes right across the box. He'll have to learn on the job I guess.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure if Merino is actually playing in the striker role. Looks more like some silly fake 9. He's certainly not getting in the box for anything.

[Niall_Quinn]

Merino gets the first shot in - off target.

[Niall_Quinn]

Shitfest. Yawn.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 Bowen. :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

Us. :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Beyond a joke. 1-0 Hammers

Wondered if we could afford to leave MLS on bench. Answer, NO! Would say shocking defending, but there was no defending at all. Lost the ball tapping it around their box too, so the complete Arsenal TM fuck-up.

[Letters]

:lol:

Oh Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

Apart from Nwaneri who has tried to make things happen, the lethargy up front is painful to watch. Hammers move the ball twice as fast when attacking. We just, plod, plod, plod. Tip, tap.

[Niall_Quinn]

Merino is playing in the middle of the pitch most of the time. He's utterly ineffective as a striker.

[Niall_Quinn]

HT 0-1 pure pain.


We should sell Nwaneri and get as much money as we can. He's wasted here.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not at all surprised by this. I think we lulled ourselves into a false sense of security with those two goals against Leicester

The game is now over of course. You can’t expect to get back into a game when you have no strikers and will be punished on the counter attack. Arteta of course won’t learn that lesson so we will concede a second on the counter most likely

[Niall_Quinn]

Get MLS on for Calafiore. First and foremost we need to tighten up the defence.

Get Tierney on for Merino and swap him with Nwaneri. Should be Sterling but we already know that wouldn't yield anything.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Deck chairs on the Titanic

This game is over, move onto the next

[Niall_Quinn]

Deck chairs on the Titanic

This game is over, move onto the next

Hardly. I wouldn't say WH are a good team. But we've given them so much time and space when they emerge from their shell. If we up the tempo we'll get a few goals. If we continue tapping it around so we can win the possession trophy, yes okay, game over.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Doesn’t matter if they are a good team. If we go behind in any game now, that’s it. We don’t have the players to break down a team that will play 11 behind the ball. Almost 50% of the goals we’ve scored in the league this season are on the treatment table. We might get a goal back from a piece of individual brilliance but as you say the only one likely to provide that is Nwaneri and they will put two or three players on him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't think there are any subs and that's quite hard to believe given that first half performance. If at first you totally fail, fail, fail again.

[Niall_Quinn]

Slipped straight back into the tip-tap. It comes naturally now.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apart from Nwaneri who has tried to make things happen, the lethargy up front is painful to watch. Hammers move the ball twice as fast when attacking. We just, plod, plod, plod. Tip, tap.

I missed most of the Leicester game, but yes, this is truly terrible to watch...and we all know who is to blame for this.

Anyway, I'm going to focus on the defending today as it's been absolutely atrocious...and thier is definitely no excuse for this, absolutely effing none.

I am not sure Bowen has faced a challenge in the box. He has been given all the freedom he needs even though our CBs have had no one else to mark. His goal was from the 3rd good opportunity he had and again he was left unmarked when no one had anyone else they were marking.

Yes we have no striker, but that does not give our defenders the excuse to be aimlessly prancing around thinking they are the ones who are going to unlock West Ham with defence splitting passes they have only executed in their dreams.

Also I blame Raya, cause after the 2nd time Bowen was left on his own, he owes it to us as a keeper to rein in his CBs and point out to them their main job is to ensure no one scores. But he was guilty of also playing to the gallery and going on excursion after excursion.

It was a silly goal to give a way and is pissing me the eff off. FFS, it was even pointed out that they've only scored in the first half twice all season! The thing is, the team is clearly nervous and everyone seems to be overthinking.... but yeah, we all know who deserves the ultimate blame for this.

Anyway lets hope West Ham makes some mistakes or Nwaneri suddenly comes into the game and does something special.... we are really quite frustrating to watch and this was all so avoidable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Our striker out wide fouling the winger. He must have been told he can wander wherever he likes - except no going in the box.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd love to know what the theory behind this performance is. WH are super comfortable putting men behind the ball, and we are content to tap it around in front of them. Are we waiting for WH to score for us? What's the PLAN?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd love to know what the theory behind this performance is. WH are super comfortable putting men behind the ball, and we are content to tap it around in front of them. Are we waiting for WH to score for us? What's the PLAN?

What are you expecting to happen ?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Again they lose Bowen....this is getting tiring.

[Niall_Quinn]

WHAT?

Rice off???? Zinchenko on?????

???????????

What's happening?

MLS on for Calafiore. Nightmare for Calafiore, shocking performance.

So now we have a player on his way out of the club anchoring the midfield, and a midfield anchor playing up top. This can't be right?

[Niall_Quinn]

What are you expecting to happen ?

Nwaneri will cut inside and launch the equaliser into the top corner.

Then we'll get a dodgy pen and win it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Nwaneri is really special, shame he has to come in when we are this bad. He really should have been introduced properly into this team when Odegaard was injured then. Now it seems they keep running into each other as he is always looking to come into the middle.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lots of kicking the ball away to delay the game, but no cards. Wonder if we do it what will happen?

[Niall_Quinn]

Sounds like VAR are reviewing for a red against us.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Seems VAR wants to give Lewis-Skelly a red. You can't make this shit up.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Lewis-Skelly sent off for Arsenal. Not ideal.

[Niall_Quinn]

MLS is going to get a red here. Another one of those last man incidents, but this time it's all down to Raya who has been wandering around outside his goal all match.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

WTF is the point.....we really messed this season up from day one.

[Niall_Quinn]

This pretty much does MLS for the season. Everyone will be piling on now. This is what happens when you bring a couple of kids in and tell them the season depends on you because we can't be bothered to properly field a full squad.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why are we pushed so far up that we get a straight red for last man half way up the pitch, when we have no strikers

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

MLS is going to get a red here. Another one of those last man incidents, but this time it's all down to Raya who has been wandering around outside his goal all match.

I still don't think the last man argument is valid here...but you are right, Raya made it easier for them to give that red card.

[Niall_Quinn]

It was actually a foul on MLS first, but obviously not given. Then MLS clearly takes him down but the ref can defend this all day long because Raya was in the CB position for some incredibly fucked up reason. He's been doing it all match, getting as far as the halfway line on occasion.

[Marc Overmars]

League campaign is done let’s be honest. No more crumbs of comfort after this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The league campaign was over ages ago. I think we were all kidding ourselves that these kind of games wouldn’t become the norm with no striker

[Niall_Quinn]

I still don't think the last man argument is valid here...but you are right, Raya made it easier for them to give that red card.

Well they just assume players like Docherty are suddenly going to be world beaters, run up the full length of the pitch and slam it in. If I had to bet on that hammer finishing off that chance I'd bet against. We've seen how shit most strikers are in this league (although better than our striker tbf)

But we made our bed here. Low pace, low intensity, an absolute gift for an opponent that doesn't mind doing a bit of running.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It was actually a foul on MLS first, but obviously not given. Then MLS clearly takes him down but the ref can defend this all day long because Raya was in the CB position for some incredibly fucked up reason. He's been doing it all match, getting as far as the halfway line on occasion.

Your analysis of this is spot on.....I think its mainly because MLS had control first and was bullied off it which is why I probably wouldn't give a red card.

But yeah, we won't be able to argue this one away which means we need to pray Caliafori stays fit for the next few games.

[Niall_Quinn]

Should be a straight red for that tackle from behind on Trossard. We can't afford to lose any more players but we aren't getting any protection.

Sterling coming on. Nwaneri off. LOL.

And Nwaneri limped off.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Nwaneri taken off and it seems he is injured....wow.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ll be honest, I’m not really understanding why people are getting upset. Yes we’ve played poorly today but it doesn’t really matter does it?. We don’t have goalscorers on the pitch, we push up too high and we get punished. All this stuff about not playing with pace or intensity doesn’t really matter here.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Kudus, the best player on the pitch by a mile, is taken off

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nwaneri taken off and it seems he is injured....wow.

:lol: sorry shouldn’t laugh. But can’t help a bit of gallows humour

[Niall_Quinn]

Inexplicably, it turns out you can't win a title by heaping the responsibilities on two kids and a CM in the striker role.

[Niall_Quinn]

Saliba off, Ben White on.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’ll be honest, I’m not really understanding why people are getting upset. Yes we’ve played poorly today but it doesn’t really matter does it?. We don’t have goalscorers on the pitch, we push up too high and we get punished. All this stuff about not playing with pace or intensity doesn’t really matter here.

I think the point is we're not doing anything right. This game could have easily ended as a bore draw with us having 11 men if we'd stuck to what we know how to do well.

Today, everybody decided to play like Brazil (of the old days) and we failed woefully in everything ....pretty sad watch.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just need Ben White to pick up an injury and that's a wrap! Turn out the lights when you are leaving.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think the point is we're not doing anything right. This game could have easily ended as a bore draw with us having 11 men if we'd stuck to what we know how to do well.

Today, everybody decided to play like Brazil (of the old days) and we failed woefully in everything ....pretty sad watch.

Did you really think having no strikers was going to change our approach to games?

I agree of course that a team as vulnerable to the counter attack as we are should be playing for draws and maybe looking to get a smash and grab. Plus the players we have available are low energy, we slag off Odegaard but he’s clearly carrying an injury. Rice? As I keep saying he’s not a number 8

[Niall_Quinn]

8 mins stoppage time.

As Partey chips in with a piece of appalling play.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I really dislike when Odegaard passes the buck like this....he's been effing horrible this whole game and totally uninspiring!

[Niall_Quinn]

Can't tell what the formation is, what the tactics are, can't recognise this team even by this season's standards. It's a complete collapse, in every sense. You can't tell me any of what we are seeing out there is connected in any way with the training ground. This is just pure, random shite.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Kudus almost creating another goal...I actually thought he had been taken off :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

I really dislike when Odegaard passes the buck like this....he's been effing horrible this whole game and totally uninspiring!

Absolute stroll for him. The exact opposite of a captain's performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do we have an easier match than this for the remainder? Home vs West Ham?

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought the Dubai break meant we could run teams like WH off the pitch. Instead it just meant we lost our only striker.

Raya now playing striker. Only role he hasn't played today.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 FT.

Arteta's run of improving the previous season's points total is over. :rose:

[HCZ_Reborn]

FT 0-1

Not at all a surprise. The game as I said was over when West Ham went in front. We don’t have the capability to break down teams defending a lead (and in fairness we don’t really have it when everyone is fit, especially when Arteta insists on playing a defensive midfielder as a number 8)

Not going to criticise any of the players, because it really doesn’t matter who played poorly or not. The club’s hierarchy has set them up to fail. It’s going to get very unpleasant between now and the end of the season. And we’ve all been deluding ourselves into a fairy tale belief that somehow players who don’t look like scoring were somehow going to score

[Marc Overmars]

A result that should surprise no one.

We have nothing up front. :shrug:

Roll on August.

[Niall_Quinn]

Can't complain when you watch a performance like that. Did nothing to win it. Completely fell apart, tactically, technically, at the end. Pure shambles.

Big result for the hammers of course. Doubt they had that down as 3 points, unless they've noticed what Arsenal does every time we are in a position to gain points on a title rival.

Not that we are title rivals. Not even close.

SO

One of the kids, MLS, gone for 3 games.

The other kid limping off, if our luck changes maybe it's just a minor niggle.

So Nwaneri out for the rest of the season.

And Merino didn't really work (in any way, shape, or form) as a striker.

So that's plan Z out the window.

Don't tell me we'll have to rely on Odegard, Rice, Partey, Sterling - the big money boys - to shoulder the responsibility?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apparently its West Ham's first clean sheet under Potter in any competition...if you are looking for a positive record, just play us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Can't complain when you watch a performance like that. Did nothing to win it. Completely fell apart, tactically, technically, at the end. Pure shambles.

Big result for the hammers of course. Doubt they had that down as 3 points, unless they've noticed what Arsenal does every time we are in a position to gain points on a title rival.

Not that we are title rivals. Not even close.

SO

One of the kids, MLS, gone for 3 games.

The other kid limping off, if our luck changes maybe it's just a minor niggle.

So Nwaneri out for the rest of the season.

And Merino didn't really work (in any way, shape, or form) as a striker.

So that's plan Z out the window.

Don't tell me we'll have to rely on Odegard, Rice, Partey, Sterling - the big money boys - to shoulder the responsibility?

A red card is only a 3 match ban for dangerous play. It’s a one match ban

[Niall_Quinn]

A red card is only a 3 match ban for dangerous play. It’s a one match ban

It's on!

[HCZ_Reborn]

A result that should surprise no one.

We have nothing up front. :shrug:

Roll on August.

That’s exactly it. Not worth over analysing. Bit foolish to try and play how we normally play if you ask me. I think we need to play more conservatively and try and break on teams where possible

[Niall_Quinn]

That’s exactly it. Not worth over analysing. Bit foolish to try and play how we normally play if you ask me. I think we need to play more conservatively and try and break on teams where possible

We have the players who can up the tempo and play a more direct game, we've seen it, it works. We can't break teams down because we almost hand craft invitations for the opposition defence to meander back to their defensive positions. We are always facing masses ranks because it takes us 30+ passes to move the ball all around our own half before getting it into the opposition third. We have players like Saka, Nwaneri, Trossaard, Martinelli, tierney, these guys whould be playing at 100mph every match with their eyes fixed on the opposition goal. Instead they are expending 100% effort shuffling around the place trying to fill two, even three roles.

Just hump the fucking ball up the pitch and if you are going to use Merindo then he's good in the air, so use him as a target man. Then get that fucker down to either Partey or Odeagrd and hoof that fucker at the goal so the forwards can heap maximum pressure on the defence.

I thought we were supposed to be optimally fit, that the modern PL was agame for athletes? So why are we plodding around at 1mph? The fucking grass has grown by the time we transition up the pitch.

[Letters]

Ah well. At least I can relax now and ignore the rest of the season

[HCZ_Reborn]

We have the players who can up the tempo and play a more direct game, we've seen it, it works. We can't break teams down because we almost hand craft invitations for the opposition defence to meander back to their defensive positions. We are always facing masses ranks because it takes us 30+ passes to move the ball all around our own half before getting it into the opposition third. We have players like Saka, Nwaneri, Trossaard, Martinelli, tierney, these guys whould be playing at 100mph every match with their eyes fixed on the opposition goal. Instead they are expending 100% effort shuffling around the place trying to fill two, even three roles.

Just hump the fucking ball up the pitch and if you are going to use Merindo then he's good in the air, so use him as a target man. Then get that fucker down to either Partey or Odeagrd and hoof that fucker at the goal so the forwards can heap maximum pressure on the defence.

I thought we were supposed to be optimally fit, that the modern PL was agame for athletes? So why are we plodding around at 1mph? The fucking grass has grown by the time we transition up the pitch.

When have we seen it? I know you keep insisting on the fact that Rice is this Roy of the Rovers footballer who can play box to box. But he doesn’t, he doesn’t have the passing range, the acceleration or the skill with the ball to his feet. It’s not his fault, it’s not how he plays…he’s a defensive midfielder his job is to neutralise danger and he’s exceptional at that. I told you very clearly that we beat Man City because they are a side of suicidal stubbornness when it comes to playing out from the back. They overcommitted and left acres of space for us to run into.

[Letters]

And we’ve all been deluding ourselves into a fairy tale belief that somehow players who don’t look like scoring were somehow going to score
Guilty as charged, but despite our injuries there are players out there who should be able to chip in and score goals. I thought you were being hysterical when you questioned whether we can stay in the top 4 but right now you do have to wonder where the goals are going to come from to keep us up there. It’s galling to see Liverpool cruise to the title so easily. They’re the best in the league but that’s a low bar this season.

[Niall_Quinn]

When have we seen it? I know you keep insisting on the fact that Rice is this Roy of the Rovers footballer who can play box to box. But he doesn’t, he doesn’t have the passing range, the acceleration or the skill with the ball to his feet. It’s not his fault, it’s not how he plays…he’s a defensive midfielder his job is to neutralise danger and he’s exceptional at that. I told you very clearly that we beat Man City because they are a side of suicidal stubbornness when it comes to playing out from the back. They overcommitted and left acres of space for us to run into.

I know you are suffering with some sort of mental illness when it comes to Rice, possibly because you are sexually attracted to Partey and will get a better view of his buttocks if he plays further up the pitch.

But I was talking about the tempo of the game and the comfort we afford the opposition defence. It's all obvious stuff really. Give the defenders less time and they'll make more mistakes. Not sure you need any of the imaginary tactics pundits come up with to justify their salaries.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know you are suffering with some sort of mental illness when it comes to Rice, possibly because you are sexually attracted to Partey and will get a better view of his buttocks if he plays further up the pitch.

But I was talking about the tempo of the game and the comfort we afford the opposition defence. It's all obvious stuff really. Give the defenders less time and they'll make more mistakes. Not sure you need any of the imaginary tactics pundits come up with to justify their salaries.

So sidestepping the two paragraphs of poo you’ve written. When was this time we were able to play direct and cut through an opposition that didn’t play totally into our hands?

I’m not talking about tactics. I don’t think we’ve got the players to do what you’re saying we should do

[Niall_Quinn]

Guilty as charged, but despite our injuries there are players out there who should be able to chip in and score goals. I thought you were being hysterical when you questioned whether we can stay in the top 4 but right now you do have to wonder where the goals are going to come from to keep us up there. It’s galling to see Liverpool cruise to the title so easily. They’re the best in the league but that’s a low bar this season.

Liverpool aren't a great team, not even a notable one. They have a great player carrying them, and a decent enough defender just about holding things together. And a couple of world class cheats to consistently tilt the playing field.

Gypos are a bunch of mercenaries who are tired of it now, too rich, can't be arsed.

We always had top 4 as the goal. For financial reasons. There was never any intention to win anything, that's not the focus of the club.

Probably the worst PL in quite some time. None of these 3 would have got within a mile of recent gypo title winners or even recent Liverpool winners. And, sadly, even out team from last year would be an impossible hurdle for anything in this league right now (especially our current bunch of shitkickers)

[Niall_Quinn]

So sidestepping the two paragraphs of poo you’ve written. When was this time we were able to play direct and cut through an opposition that didn’t play totally into our hands?

I’m not talking about tactics. I don’t think we’ve got the players to do what you’re saying we should do

Oh - the extra condition tagged to the end so you can skip over your bizarre, unbalanced initial response and also leapfrog my reminder of what the conversation is actually about.

The last game was Leicester, the second goal. And then back through this season with several examples, last season likewise and all the way back through Wenger's reign, we've ALWAYS been better playing at a high tempo. We've NEVER been Barcelona. We're more than capable. Yes, granted we can't go too gung-ho given the current injury crisis. But how hard would it be for a wide man to play on the move facing the opposition goal rather than stood still with back to goal?

Pepe ruined football. He's cursed it. It's why most games are unwatchable now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh - the extra condition tagged to the end so you can skip over your bizarre, unbalanced initial response and also leapfrog my reminder of what the conversation is actually about.

The last game was Leicester, the second goal. And then back through this season with several examples, last season likewise and all the way back through Wenger's reign, we've ALWAYS been better playing at a high tempo. We've NEVER been Barcelona. We're more than capable. Yes, granted we can't go too gung-ho given the current injury crisis. But how hard would it be for a wide man to play on the move facing the opposition goal rather than stood still with back to goal?

Pepe ruined football. He's cursed it. It's why most games are unwatchable now.

Leicester the second goal? You mean the second goal where play was stretched because we’d already taken the lead, meaning Leicester had to come out and overcommit.

Plus what I said about Rice was relevant to the discussion. This direct, high tempo football you crave is not possible when you’re playing a defensive midfielder at 8. I don’t know where your weird projected homoerotic remark about Partey came from as I don’t think he’s especially a great 8 either. But he’s better at it than Rice and Rice is far, far better at 6 than Partey.


And maybe if nothing else if Rice wasn’t pushed so far forward we’d have had better protection for our back line. And we’d be bemoaning a 0-0 rather than a 1-0 defeat

[Niall_Quinn]

Leicester the second goal? You mean the second goal where play was stretched because we’d already taken the lead, meaning Leicester had to come out and overcommit.

Plus what I said about Rice was relevant to the discussion. This direct, high tempo football you crave is not possible when you’re playing a defensive midfielder at 8. I don’t know where your weird projected homoerotic remark about Partey came from as I don’t think he’s especially a great 8 either. But he’s better at it than Rice and Rice is far, far better at 6 than Partey.


And maybe if nothing else if Rice wasn’t pushed so far forward we’d have had better protection for our back line. And we’d be bemoaning a 0-0 rather than a 1-0 defeat

So Trossard outpaced and beat his man because Leicester lacked players in and around the box? Didn't look that way. Looked more like Trossard skinning the defender. Why aren't we playing it in front of him so he can do that some more? It's what he does. Instead we see him engaged in pretty triangles before one of the midfielders feels the slightest pressure and plays it all the way back. Happens what, 20 times a match? Same with Nwaneri, he's keen to take on his man, not afraid at all. But instead we have him tip tapping it between himself and 5 yard Odegard?

We had a break in Dubai? We should have run the legs off WH. We didn't get out of first gear. It's not about the intricacies of football that may or may not be real, it's about getting to the bal quicker, playing more positive passes, accepting you might lose the ball, using the supposedly best defence in the league to cover those occasions.

Even simpler, play at 2mph instead of 1mph. Even that would be better.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard did well to take on his man and put in a good cross, but watch the goal again….Calafiori acres of space finds Trossard, his man gets tight to him but only because Trossard has no pace, but when Trossard puts the ball in, Leicester defenders are still running back and therefore Merino is able to ghost in unmarked.

It’s a counter attacking goal. It’s the kind of goal you can only score when the opposition has pushed up which they had

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A red card is only a 3 match ban for dangerous play. It’s a one match ban

Ah didn't know this....that makes things a little bit more palatable.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ah didn't know this....that makes things a little bit more palatable.

It’s why we lost Saliba for only the one game back in October

[Niall_Quinn]

Trossard did well to take on his man and put in a good cross, but watch the goal again….Calafiori acres of space finds Trossard, his man gets tight to him but only because Trossard has no pace, but when Trossard puts the ball in, Leicester defenders are still running back and therefore Merino is able to ghost in unmarked.

It’s a counter attacking goal. It’s the kind of goal you can only score when the opposition has pushed up which they had

No wait, I'm not saying we have to score a goal every time we go forward. I'm saying we should play at a higher tempo, we should be more direct and play with a lot more pace (which we usually have, albeit not right now). Even Sterling would find it easier despite his shot legs. You are making my point for me. When the defenders are put under more pressure there is more chance of them making a mistake. They could be under pressure because their mates are up the field chasing the game, or they could be under pressure because relentless bastards keep coming at them with no let-up.

We, instead, tip it around in front of the opposition defence. And when the opposition gets stretched by a pass or when recovering from a transition, by the time we've completed out 30+ 5 yard passes, everyone has had a breather and is comfortably back in control.

The very fact almost every manager is now a Pep knock-off is why we get two teams playing chess instead of football. We need to be knights against these pawn armies. Go over, past and around them but always forwards and always with urgency. How could that NOT be more effective than trying to walk the ball in 80+ times in a season?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Right just one more time. We weren’t playing at a higher tempo, we were playing with more space. Not because we created the space with our high tempo, but because Leicester had no choice but to push forward after going behind.

We don’t have the players with the ball skills of Thierry Henry to make defenders part like the Red Sea. Savvy?

[Letters]

We always had top 4 as the goal. For financial reasons. There was never any intention to win anything, that's not the focus of the club.
I don’t think that’s as true as it used to be.
For financial reasons Top 4 has been a minimum requirement but the level of investment over the last few years suggests they have tried to push on and win something. Had it not been for us being up against a team who have been cheating for years we’d have won the title last year and maybe the year before. It’s frustrating when City finally do drop off that it’s not us who benefits. Maybe without the injuries we’d have run Liverpool close, and without the refs putting their thumb on the scales which has clearly cost us points. But we left ourselves vulnerable with a lack of squad depth and failing to sign a striker last summer when it was clearly a problem area was just negligent

[Niall_Quinn]

Right just one more time. We weren’t playing at a higher tempo, we were playing with more space. Not because we created the space with our high tempo, but because Leicester had no choice but to push forward after going behind.

We don’t have the players with the ball skills of Thierry Henry to make defenders part like the Red Sea. Savvy?

Obviously it's going to take more than one time. What do you think would be more effective? Trossard taking on his man and getting the cross in? Or Trossard recieving the ball with his back to goal, slowing it down, taking a few taps and then playing it back into the midfield to the closest team mate?

I don't think the answer to this is difficult. But we'll see.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t think that’s as true as it used to be.
For financial reasons Top 4 has been a minimum requirement but the level of investment over the last few years suggests they have tried to push on and win something. Had it not been for us being up against a team who have been cheating for years we’d have won the title last year and maybe the year before. It’s frustrating when City finally do drop off that it’s not us who benefits. Maybe without the injuries we’d have run Liverpool close, and without the refs putting their thumb on the scales which has clearly cost us points. But we left ourselves vulnerable with a lack of squad depth and failing to sign a striker last summer when it was clearly a problem area was just negligent

I wonder about that. WOULD we have won the title last year if gypsies weren't allowed in the league? Maybe. Or maybe we'd have invested less because there'd be fewer direct rivals for the top 4 trophy. We saw in the summer we're prepared to ignore doing what it takes to win. Then we saw it even more starkly in January. I don't think there's any way to get around January. We KNEW we were desperately short, due to those injuries you mention AND because our shitty summer resulted in Sterling being evacuated onto our bench. Still did nothing. Still placed other priorities above winning. Player age, sell-on fee. It's become a very far-fetched argument that concluded this club is out to win trophies rather than maximise return on investment financially. Soon enough we'll be in the next summer window, then we will see. They'll need to spend 150-200 million (minus any sales) in that window to win, or when they spend considerably less, release 5 new kits and have us playing some whack tournament in some desert or the far side of the world, we'll know.

How do you think the summer will turn out? Isak, Sesko, somebody to replace Saliba, somebody to fill the gap left by Partey and Jorghino? The quality we need to win the title, as opposed to securing another top 4 trophy? I have a feeling we'll still be asking the question next deadline day and the headlines will read, "Sterling's Mum Signed in Loan Deal."

[Letters]

I wonder about that. WOULD we have won the title last year if gypsies weren't allowed in the league? Maybe. Or maybe we'd have invested less because there'd be fewer direct rivals for the top 4 trophy. We saw in the summer we're prepared to ignore doing what it takes to win. Then we saw it even more starkly in January. I don't think there's any way to get around January. We KNEW we were desperately short, due to those injuries you mention AND because our shitty summer resulted in Sterling being evacuated onto our bench. Still did nothing. Still placed other priorities above winning. Player age, sell-on fee. It's become a very far-fetched argument that concluded this club is out to win trophies rather than maximise return on investment financially. Soon enough we'll be in the next summer window, then we will see. They'll need to spend 150-200 million (minus any sales) in that window to win, or when they spend considerably less, release 5 new kits and have us playing some whack tournament in some desert or the far side of the world, we'll know.

How do you think the summer will turn out? Isak, Sesko, somebody to replace Saliba, somebody to fill the gap left by Partey and Jorghino? The quality we need to win the title, as opposed to securing another top 4 trophy? I have a feeling we'll still be asking the question next deadline day and the headlines will read, "Sterling's Mum Signed in Loan Deal."

I don't think we would have invested anywhere near as much as we have had we been content to bumble around in the top 4.
The investment we've made has seen us properly challenging for the first time in a couple of decades. We were miles above everyone last year, if you don't count the oil cheats.
January...it's hard to do serious business then although I as I just said in the match thread I still think Rashford might have been worth a punt.
This summer...God knows, although it will be interesting as it will show how serious we are about taking the final step up to land a big prize. If we do nothing of note again then I guess we'll have our answer.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think we would have invested anywhere near as much as we have had we been content to bumble around in the top 4.
The investment we've made has seen us properly challenging for the first time in a couple of decades. We were miles above everyone last year, if you don't count the oil cheats.
January...it's hard to do serious business then although I as I just said in the match thread I still think Rashford might have been worth a punt.
This summer...God knows, although it will be interesting as it will show how serious we are about taking the final step up to land a big prize. If we do nothing of note again then I guess we'll have our answer.

It's the opposite of hard to do business in January, it's easy, as demonstrated by the hundreds of deals that were made. Villa made the window look like a Black Friday Amazon click and collect. We spent the month either repeatedly failing to do what other clubs managed to do without fuss, or not even trying (which I'm betting is the case).