Arsenal vs Paris St Germain - 29.04.2025 - KO 20:00 GMT

[HCZ_Reborn]

In the absence of Jorginho and Partey I’m not quite sure what lineup we will go with, my preference would be to go with two attacking midfielders in central midfield and have Rice mop up any danger.

Whether Arteta will choose to be that bold or whether he will elect to play Merino in central midfield remains to be seen.


Anything other than a win and I think we will be in trouble for the second leg (not to say we will be out but I think we will find it hard to get through). A 2-0 win like in October would be my preference


Doue who played at the Emirates in November and Kvaratskhelia who was still at Napoli then will be the main danger men. But as good as Donnarumma has been in goal, they’ve shown they can be got at.

[Marc Overmars]

No Partey is very frustrating but one thing we’ve remained is difficult to beat despite various absences this season. I think Merino in midfield and Trossard up front is the likely fix. Special moments decide these kind of games and we’ll need our big guns to step up again.

Feel like it will end in tears for us but that’s just me and my pessimism after so many years of falling short. It’s a 50-50 tie.

[dazthegooner]

There have been rumours that MLS might be played in Midfield (maybe with Tierney at left back but probably Zinchenko <_< if the case ) with Rice playing the 6 role.

[Mac76]

I think people said pretty much all of the above before the Real tie.

It's up for grabs, plain and simple, we've shown we can mix it with the best so just need to do it again.

Got no idea how it will turn out but having the first leg at home suited us well last time, building a good lead and then them having to come out and play at their own ground so we could pick them off, let's hope it will also be the case this time

[Mac76]

Zinchenko

if that happens forget everything I just said, we're losing and losing well

[HCZ_Reborn]

There have been rumours that MLS might be played in Midfield (maybe with Tierney at left back but probably Zinchenko <_< if the case ) with Rice playing the 6 role.

I don’t know if Calafiori is fit but actually having him and MLS start in such a circumstance might work. Having them dovetail could be good. MLS did well moving into central midfield against Real Madrid in the first leg

[Mac76]

Cala can't defend but happy to see him further up if it keeps Zin off the pitch, so my preference would be him in MF and MLS at LB

[IBK]

Not sure that now is the time to experiment with MLS in MF. For me Trossard (who has been on form recently) in for Merino up front, with Merino dropping into attacking MF and Rice at 6. Least disruption.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cala can't defend but happy to see him further up if it keeps Zin off the pitch, so my preference would be him in MF and MLS at LB

Disagree that he can’t defend. I don’t think he’s great at left back (although better at it than Zinchenko or Kiwior), but working in tandem with MLS I think would work well

[Letters]

I hope we win, tbh.

[dazthegooner]

I hope we win, tbh.

No you don't! ;)

[Letters]

I think people said pretty much all of the above before the Real tie.

It's up for grabs, plain and simple, we've shown we can mix it with the best so just need to do it again.

Got no idea how it will turn out but having the first leg at home suited us well last time, building a good lead and then them having to come out and play at their own ground so we could pick them off, let's hope it will also be the case this time
:gp:

I was pretty sure we'd go out against Real. Those performances and results have led me to believe we can compete at this level and mix it with anyone.
Come on, Arsenal!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No Partey is very frustrating but one thing we’ve remained is difficult to beat despite various absences this season. I think Merino in midfield and Trossard up front is the likely fix. Special moments decide these kind of games and we’ll need our big guns to step up again.

Feel like it will end in tears for us but that’s just me and my pessimism after so many years of falling short. It’s a 50-50 tie.

Trossard has banged in a few goals recently but TBH I have a strong preference for keeping Merino as our focal point as I think he's done an excellent job as cover and unlike Trossard, he brings people into the game more naturally, which is important for this team, particularly in the CL.

I really hope Arteta comes up with a suitable fix that allows Merino to play upfront, though unfortunately I think he will stick with the Trossard option due to his recent goal blitz and the fact that he didn't experiment when he had a chance in the league.

I really hope we can come out from this leg without losing and have a stronger team available for the 2nd leg, which is where I believe everything will be decided, unlike the Real Madrid game.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Disagree that he can’t defend. I don’t think he’s great at left back (although better at it than Zinchenko or Kiwior), but working in tandem with MLS I think would work well

I get why Mac says he can't defend, as we've mainly seen him defending as a LB playing this midfield pivot thing which probably doesn't suit him as much as it does MLS as he seems slower to get back and is worse at recovery when he loses possession.

However I agree with you that he can defend as he is a CB afterall and an Italian CB starting for the national team, so it's obviously in his DNA.

I still don't know if playing 2 of them together works but I have really enjoyed and been impressed by the cameos we've gotten from Tierney and would probably prefer him supporting in some way if we had to play 2 LBs.

I wish we'd experimented properly in the Ipswich game though when everyone was available.

[Mac76]

Not sure that now is the time to experiment with MLS in MF. For me Trossard (who has been on form recently) in for Merino up front, with Merino dropping into attacking MF and Rice at 6. Least disruption.

If Merino is fit, yes absolutely, I think the question was what we'd do if he wasn't

That said I don't think MLS in MF is that experimental, it's actually his original position, we've just refashioned him as an LB this season

[Mac76]

I get why Mac says he can't defend, as we've mainly seen him defending as a LB playing this midfield pivot thing which probably doesn't suit him as much as it does MLS as he seems slower to get back and is worse at recovery when he loses possession.

However I agree with you that he can defend as he is a CB afterall and an Italian CB starting for the national team, so it's obviously in his DNA.

I still don't know if playing 2 of them together works but I have really enjoyed and been impressed by the cameos we've gotten from Tierney and would probably prefer him supporting in some way if we had to play 2 LBs.

I wish we'd experimented properly in the Ipswich game though when everyone was available.


OK maybe he can do it at CB but that's not what was suggested, he's really poor defending at LB so I'm not in favour, I'd much rather MLS or if not then KT, or maybe both as you suggest, which could happen later in the game I guess

[HCZ_Reborn]

A lot of young midfielders get played at left back because it’s considered safer for them there rather than central midfield where they lack the wherewithal, the technical ability etc to play central midfield. MLS played well against Real Madrid but would be interesting to see if he could handle the premier league there

[Mac76]

Both White and Merino trained today apparently, so available tomorrow :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Record against teams that play in French Ligue 1, in the UCL

98/99 - Lens (A) - 1-1 D
98/99 - Lens (H) - 0-1 L
00/01 - Lyon (A) - 1-0 W
00/01 - Lyon (H) - 1-1 D
02/03 - Auxerre (A) - 1-0 W
02/03 - Auxerre (H) - 1-2 L
11/12 - Marseille (A) - 1-0 W
11/12 - Marseille (H) - 0-0 D
12/13 - Montpellier (A) - 2-1 W
12/13 - Montpellier (H) - 2-0 W
13/14 - Marseille (A) - 2-1 W
13/14 - Marseille (H) - 2-0 W
14/15 - Monaco (H) - 1-3 L
14/15 - Monaco (A) - 2-0 W
16/17 - Paris St Germain (A) - 1-1 D
16/17 - Paris St Germain (H) - 2-2 D
23/24 - Lens (A) - 1-2 L
23/24 - Lens (H) - 6-0 W
24/25 - PSG (H) - 2-0 W
24/25 - Monaco (H) - 3-0 W

[Letters]

You do love your irrelevant stats :lol:
(as do I)

[HCZ_Reborn]

You do love your irrelevant stats :lol:
(as do I)

Do you know what the worst thing is? I didn’t even have to look any of that up. All from memory

Yet I’ll go into a shop and forget to buy the thing I went in there for

[Letters]

Do you know what the worst thing is? I didn’t even have to look any of that up. All from memory

Yet I’ll go into a shop and forget to buy the thing I went in there for

:lol: My memory is pretty patchy these days.
I have a 4 year old daughter who routinely thrashes me at pairs.

But play the first few seconds of a Beatles song or give me a Simpsons reference and I’m your man :lol:

[IBK]

If Merino is fit, yes absolutely, I think the question was what we'd do if he wasn't

That said I don't think MLS in MF is that experimental, it's actually his original position, we've just refashioned him as an LB this season

Fairs re the question. Re MLS though, while he has advanced into MF from LB plenty, lets face it he hasn't even played that many games for us at LB let alone starting in an unfamiliar position in this team in this season's most important game. It's not only the position, its the relationships with the players around him playing it that is just as important. With PSG's ferocious press, the last think I would do is introduce any unfamiliarity for him for this game.

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the topic of PSG’s ferocious press…I’d allow them to tire themselves out with it….they couldn’t maintain the intensity level either at Anfield or Villa Park. First half soak up the pressure, second half give them a bloody nose

[IBK]

On the topic of PSG’s ferocious press…I’d allow them to tire themselves out with it….they couldn’t maintain the intensity level either at Anfield or Villa Park. First half soak up the pressure, second half give them a bloody nose

Yup - good tactic.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Do you know what the worst thing is? I didn’t even have to look any of that up. All from memory

Yet I’ll go into a shop and forget to buy the thing I went in there for

How did you manage to copy & paste that from your brain?

Are you Johnny Mnemonic :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

On the topic of PSG’s ferocious press…I’d allow them to tire themselves out with it….they couldn’t maintain the intensity level either at Anfield or Villa Park. First half soak up the pressure, second half give them a bloody nose

Their ferocious press is exactly what we want, teams play into our hands when they do this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

How did you manage to copy & paste that from your brain?

Are you Johnny Mnemonic :shrug:

Copy and paste it?

Nope I typed that out (took me all of five minutes)


Johnny Mnemonic? Are we back in 1996?, I did find myself watching 12 Monkeys again last night…love that film, so maybe we are

[KSE Comedy Club]

Copy and paste it?

Nope I typed that out (took me all of five minutes)


Johnny Mnemonic? Are we back in 1996?, I did find myself watching 12 Monkeys again last night…love that film, so maybe we are

Indeed, stranger things have happened...... ;)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Their ferocious press is exactly what we want, teams play into our hands when they do this.

Umm what kind of press are we discussing here, as I've not really studied them lately? Because if they play similar to the way we do when we really press i.e. go after every ball and defender while they are trying to play from the back, I absolutely do not think that favours us, especially when you consider brain fart Saliba and Rayadinho.

In fact none of our defenders are dependable if they are properly chased around for about 20 mins. Partey is the only one who can manage 3 guy running at him to a certain extent, and even he is guilty of playing the pressured pass.

The PSG I remember ( at least from the match we played earlier) play like most big teams. They go all gung-ho when they attack and once their attackers lose the ball, they ease off and hardly chase you while trying to run back . They feign they are trying to help the defenders by occupying space but really they are just trying to set themselves for a counter once they get the ball. That sort of game suits us to the tee.

Attackers actively pressing the way we do is not easy for us to handle (a reason we keep losing to Newscastle) and I hope thats not the way they are going to set out.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Team to face PSG: Raya, Timber, Saliba, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Rice, Merino, Saka, Trossard, Martinelli.

I think that’s the lineup I expected, and ultimately I have to say it’s probably on balance the lineup I would have gone for myself (with the possible exception of swapping out Odegaard for Nwaneri but that’s a big call).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Team to face PSG: Raya, Timber, Saliba, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Rice, Merino, Saka, Trossard, Martinelli.

I think that’s the lineup I expected, and ultimately I have to say it’s probably on balance the lineup I would have gone for myself (with the possible exception of swapping out Odegaard for Nwaneri but that’s a big call).

Trossard playing up front...lets hope he takes his chances.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Team to face PSG: Raya, Timber, Saliba, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Odegaard, Rice, Merino, Saka, Trossard, Martinelli.

I think that’s the lineup I expected, and ultimately I have to say it’s probably on balance the lineup I would have gone for myself (with the possible exception of swapping out Odegaard for Nwaneri but that’s a big call).
Subs: Neto, Setford, White, Tierney, Zinchenko, Henry-Francis, Nwaneri, Butler-Oyedeji, Kabia, Sterling

PSG: Donnarumma, Mendes, Pacho, Marquinhos, Hakimi, Ruiz, Vitinha, Neves, Kvaratskhelia, Dembele, Doue.
Subs: Kimpembe, Ramos, Lee, Hernandez, Mayulu, Barcola, Zaire-Emery, Beraldo, Sofanov, Mbaye, Tenas.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Subs: Neto, Setford, White, Tierney, Zinchenko, Henry-Francis, Nwaneri, Butler-Oyedeji, Kabia, Sterling

PSG: Donnarumma, Mendes, Pacho, Marquinhos, Hakimi, Ruiz, Vitinha, Neves, Kvaratskhelia, Dembele, Doue.
Subs: Kimpembe, Ramos, Lee, Hernandez, Mayulu, Barcola, Zaire-Emery, Beraldo, Sofanov, Mbaye, Tenas.

This is it should be said was the PSG lineup on Friday when they lost 3-1 at home to Nice. Now obviously the context is that the title is already won and they wouldn’t have been playing with the same intensity as they will tonight but still though, the back line can be got at

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come.on Arsenal!

[Letters]

Come.on Arsenal!

:gp:

[Letters]

Minute’s silence for the pope :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 Dembele, wow.

[Marc Overmars]

Great goal.

Didn’t get anywhere near them.

:rose:

[HCZ_Reborn]

What the fuck were we doing there, the amount of time and space we gave them ffs

[Letters]

Why is no one marking him? :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

They look significantly better than us unfortunately.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think the early goal to them could actually help us if we can calm down and not try and force things.

They will now want to sit back and keep possession., this should suit us as long as no one loses their head and gets a red.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ray will definitely cost us a goal over these 2 legs. Whatever game he's playing it's going to cost us.

[Niall_Quinn]

They sorted the ref this time. That's a definite yellow for simulation.

[Letters]

They look significantly better than us unfortunately.

Yeah. We are getting a humping so far.
Can’t get a foothold in the game at all.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Timber is lucky it wasn't an English ref.

Again, UEFA officials impress me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ref's a bit blatant. He doesn't need to go all in at this stage. Obviously eager.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think Arteta needs to start thinking about taking Timber off.

This is not complicated.

[Niall_Quinn]

This ref's a fucking cheat. Where's the yellow?

[Letters]

Bit better now.
Come on, Arsenal!

[Niall_Quinn]

Too long fucking around. Up the pace and this lot will fall to bits like they did against Villa. But we're doing the Palace game again for some reason.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucking unbelievably poor. From the corner flag all the way back to that twat Raya who is 30 yards out of his goal - again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have to say Rice being shown to look distinctly average when he doesn’t get time and space on the ball

[Niall_Quinn]

One of the worst defensive performances of the season - picked a bad night for it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Have to say Rice being shown to look distinctly average when he doesn’t get time and space on the ball

He's playing in a totally difference position tonight. The position you wanted him to play in permanently.

[Marc Overmars]

Haven’t seen a team outclass us like this for a long time.

Mentally we look pretty shot.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's playing in a totally difference position tonight. The position you wanted him to play in permanently.

Well he’s getting no help from Merino who is abysmal

But yes if you aren’t a naturally technical player you’re better off at 6 than 8. Unfortunately he seems to be about as aware of danger as Ray Charles

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli, dammit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Finally, the best player on the pitch by a mile has woken up. More of the required.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Saka looks sluggish but he did really well to make a chance just there

[Niall_Quinn]

Well he’s getting no help from Merino who is abysmal

But yes if you aren’t a naturally technical player you’re better off at 6 than 8. Unfortunately he seems to be about as aware of danger as Ray Charles

Give it a rest. You embarrassed yourself enough last time.

[Letters]

One of the worst defensive performances of the season - picked a bad night for it.

Now hear me out, but it could just be that we are playing a better side than we do most weeks.

[Niall_Quinn]

Trossard misses a sitter. Mind you, he's missed most of the match.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ref is off the chain. Fucking horrible. Why can't we just have a game of football without these cunts trying to rig it?

[Letters]

Oh fuck off ref.
Never a foul by Saka

[McNamara That Ghost...]

PSG yellow. :faint:

[Marc Overmars]

That was a pathetic decision.

[Niall_Quinn]

Finally that cunt gets booked for his 50th foul. Crowd did well to get that one because the cowardly cunt ref wasn't up for the abuse he was going to get.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli chance, fucking hell.

[Niall_Quinn]

Should be winning this. PSG are shite compared to Madrid..

[Marc Overmars]

Come on Martinelli. You can score there FFS.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ref 1-0 Arsenal

Should be winning. Well within our grasp to come out and ran right over these nancy boys, even with their ref.

[Letters]

It’s been a half of two halves.
Got a foothold in the game in the last 20 minutes.
Lot of work to do but I have some hope.

Ref is not helping the game by dishing out yellow cards like sweeties.

[Niall_Quinn]

Trouble is, with a ref this bad, one little oush, one little tug and he's point straight to the spot. But good practice for the Barca match I suppose. Fucking European fags.

Come on boys, let's get out there and smash them up in the next 45.

[Letters]

Come on Martinelli. You can score there FFS.

It was a good save to be fair. I feel better now than I did after 20 minutes

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Too tentative at the start, better at the end but I'm not fancying us to get back in to scorewise.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s been a half of two halves.
Got a foothold in the game in the last 20 minutes.
Lot of work to do but I have some hope.

Ref is not helping the game by dishing out yellow cards like sweeties.

Sorry what? He should have handed out 10 more yellows after booking Trossard for nothing! Are you serious? It's the fact he's let them foul to their black heart's content that has tipped the game so heavily in their favour. That and our decision to go all Palace for the first quarter of the game.

[Marc Overmars]

Outclassed for most of it but at 0-1 we will have a chance.

Think our only hope is if they tire though, they were extremely good. We just aren’t going to match them playing football as quick as that.

[Niall_Quinn]

First goal was a disaster. No marking in the middle. Absolutely static in defence. Looked like they'd never played together before. Horrible by Timber. Then the space given to that over-hyped bloke they have, and he mis-kicks it in. Nothing good can come of lazy starts like that. Then they did it again a bit later, all of them standing around watching as the ball ricocheted around the box.

The two easy goals missed - sloppy.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh fuck off ref.
Never a foul by Saka

Have to say I disagree, he won the ball fairly in the tackle but he pushed Mendes off balance moments before that.

Wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t so slow tonight

[Niall_Quinn]

Reckon we'll steamroller them in the second half. Their defence is hopeless. If we come out and push them, just accept that fucking around at 1mph invites pressure, so up the temp and keep getting it wide, we'll get 3 or 4.

[Letters]

Sorry what? He should have handed out 10 more yellows after booking Trossard for nothing!
For the sake of consistency, yes.
Actually he has only booked 2 players for us and one for PSG. So not as bad as I thought.
But the yellow cards he has given us are for such stupid things it creates a lot of frustration.

But anyway, we have got a foothold in this game now. We need to keep that momentum going in the second half. Long way to go in this tie. Come on, Arsenal.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So far, I'm satisfied.

Nothing has surprised me as this team has struggled anytime we are favourites, especially in front of our fans.

It took us a while to get settled, but I never liked the starting lineup in the first place and I still insist we would have been better off playing 2 LBs and leaving Merino to lead the line.

It's been good the way we've responded in the last few minutes and I am pleased Timber managed to get hold of himself and focus on playing football instead of wrestling.

If we lose this game by only a goal , I'd be ok, as I feel this tie will be decided in 2nd leg and we should have a stronger team.

Our attitude after the horror that was the first 25 mins has impressed me.

On our day, with our full side, playing our usual game, we beat this team, 8 out of 10 times.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We go again next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ve nothing positive to say about our performance. Performance of gutless cowards, too scared to mix it with PSG

Nothing has been good, no one has been good. Saka is half a yard off the pace, Martinelli has time to bury that chance…it’s a good save by Donnarumma but he shouldn’t have given him the chance to make it. We have no one holding up the ball up front, Trossard drifting out wide.

I know Rice doesn’t deal well with pressing but even by his standard, he’s been pathetic. Gutless turd

Merino doesn’t belong on this stage, Kiwior trying his best but his limitations being exposed.


Odegaard is a waste of space, Timber is an actual slag.


Fuck the lot of them. If they can’t mix it at this level they need to move on to mid table clubs along with the coach

[Niall_Quinn]

Crowd need to keep the pressure on that cunt ref for the whole 45

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not sure why yall aren't grateful to the ref, Timber's wrestling move would have been given as a penalty by most refs.

If that decision had gone against us, it would be entirely different what we'd be contemplating at the moment.

[Niall_Quinn]

So he's booked Neves for that but not for the other string of offences from the first half? Did his cheque bounce?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

MERINO!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

That's 1 - 3 more to go. Let's get on with it!

[Niall_Quinn]

What a shit defence they have. We need to jump all over this and plunder.

Oh, Euro fags are going to VAR to see if they can influence it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here we go again. 5 minutes.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Disallowed goal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh well, dirty fucks give the nancy's the goal back.Nevermind go and get more. This lot are a bunch of fags when you put them under pressure.

[Letters]

:rolleyes:

[Niall_Quinn]

Why are we taking 2 minutes just to take a FK???? WTF?

[dazthegooner]

VAR live from Stanley Park.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why did that take so long to decide, it wasn’t close

[Niall_Quinn]

Trossard? Not even the simple stuff! Everytime he does that we lose 5 minutes of play.

[Niall_Quinn]

What a miss! AGAIN!

[Letters]

Piss! What a save

[Niall_Quinn]

Ref's unreal. Might as well pull a PSG shirt on. He must think the crowd have turned up to see him tonight.

[Letters]

Much better from us. Come on!

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is that not a yellow? Fucking cheat.

[Letters]

Saliba :bow:
What a tackle!

[Niall_Quinn]

Just want to keep playing it around at the back until that gift gets given.

[Marc Overmars]

We aren’t picking up any second balls. They’re just so much quicker to everything.

Think we’ve wilted here tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucking hell! Why all the extra touches? Just pass the fucking ball!

[Letters]

Just want to keep playing it around at the back until that gift gets given.
It’s so risky. The smallest mistake and they’re in.
Most times Raya has played it long we’ve won the ball so…maybe do that more?

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, more backpasses. Let's do that.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s so risky. The smallest mistake and they’re in.
Most times Raya has played it long we’ve won the ball so…maybe do that more?

The risk is playing at a low temp and with no forward movement. That's exactly what PSG came here for. Everytime the slightest pressure has ben put on them they've been all over the place. We should have 3 goals now were it not for the garbage finishing.

[dazthegooner]

And let the timewasting commence

[Niall_Quinn]

Struggling to think of anything decent Odegard has done in the last month (or more). Pathetic. I could fucking do that! Probably wouldn't be able to do it that badly though.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have to get a decent keeper that can kick a ball. Or throw one. Or can stay in his goal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Did it the other way around this time. Good 20 mins then back to Palace. If PSG could have chosen our tactics this would be them.

[Niall_Quinn]

White for Timber.

[Niall_Quinn]

Thank fuck it was Barcola - the worst player in Europe. Whew!

[Niall_Quinn]

The Nunez of France.

[Niall_Quinn]

So obviously offside! Why the cheating at this late stage? Guess they have been paid for the second goal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why no yellow?

[Niall_Quinn]

Should be second yellow and red. Cheat!

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't know, hope we are getting Zubi in to replace Odegard. Guy looks finished.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nwaneri coming on with zero time to do anything.

[Niall_Quinn]

Odegard off. Shocking performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Only 5 mins. 1 goal, bunch of subs and at half a year nicking the goal off us. Still a chance to play it FORWARDS though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hey ref - are you not pulling it back for a FK this time? Cheat!

[Letters]

Oh Martinelli :doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

This has been shockingly poor, more concerned with not conceding a second than getting an equaliser

[Niall_Quinn]

That cunt blew even before the ball left Rice's foot. A fucking grade 1 cheat cheat and MOTM. Broke the game up, worked with PSG to make sure no momentum could be developed.

[Letters]

Sigh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 FT.

What I expected tbh.

Slacking off in the previous game, utterly pointless.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t want Arteta at this club anymore

[Letters]

Knee jerk reactions :bow:

[Letters]

0-1 FT.

What I expected tbh.

Slacking off in the previous game, utterly pointless.

Yeah. If we’d win vs Palace then we’d clearly have thumped PSG tonight

[HCZ_Reborn]

0-1 FT.

What I expected tbh.

Slacking off in the previous game, utterly pointless.

Post hoc fallacy, I don’t think it had anything to do with the palace game

This was just garden variety cowardice. Didn’t compete for enough balls, stood off them far too much. They utterly played us and our below average coach for chumps.

Hopefully Barcelona can beat this Qatari funded shower of shit, because the champions league is over for us this season

I honestly hope we don’t qualify for next season now. Arteta needs to be shown the door along with the pansies in this team

[Niall_Quinn]

Should have smashed them. Trossard and Odegard with sitters. No wonder Villa wrecked them. But we decided snail pacing it around our own third was the best way to...? Do what exactly? What did we actually hope to achieve with those tactics? A freak gust of wind would blow the ball upfield? When we did bother to go forward their defence collapsed, apart from that Neves bloke who is admittedly good, but also should have been sent off for persistent fouling. However, no chance with that ref. I was more worried he'd find another excuse to book Saka and put him out for the next leg.

Anyway, onward to that shithole over the channel. Guess we'll have to beat them and their refs over there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Knee jerk reactions :bow:

Tonight was an utter disgrace

PSG made no attempt to get a second because they were so comfortable at 1-0

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yeah. If we’d win vs Palace then we’d clearly have thumped PSG tonight

We may have come in it to with better sharpness. We didn't show professionalism and you just can't turn it on like a tap when you want.

You told me it wouldn't matter because we drew in previous games prior to Real Madrid.

That went real well.

[Niall_Quinn]

Now let the bullshit punditry begin. The fat whore-shagger reckons the frogs should have won by 2 or 3. LOL!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Post hoc fallacy, I don’t think it had anything to do with the palace game

This was just garden variety cowardice. Didn’t compete for enough balls, stood off them far too much. They utterly played us and our below average coach for chumps.

Hopefully Barcelona can beat this Qatari funded shower of shit, because the champions league is over for us this season

I honestly hope we don’t qualify for next season now. Arteta needs to be shown the door along with the pansies in this team

Exactly what I thought happened came to pass and you're telling me it's a fallacy. I said this before we played this match not only after!

[Niall_Quinn]

We may have come in it to with better sharpness. We didn't show professionalism and you just can't turn it on like a tap when you want.

You told me it wouldn't matter because we drew in previous games prior to Real Madrid.

That went real well.

You can't teach a loser what winning means. It's a waste of effort.

[Niall_Quinn]

Exactly what I thought happened came to pass and you're telling me it's a fallacy. I said this before we played this match not only after!

Look mate, it's over TWO legs, so no need to put any effort into the first. Plus we still have 5th to go for in the league.

[Mac76]

One word - Partey

His absence totally fucked the team

Ok, we generally weren't on our game but for me it was the big difference

[HCZ_Reborn]

Exactly what I thought happened came to pass and you're telling me it's a fallacy. I said this before we played this match not only after!

Post Hoc Fallacy. This thing happened after the other thing therefore because of that thing

It’s like sneezing and a car alarm goes off half way down the street and saying the sneeze caused that

[HCZ_Reborn]

One word - Partey

His absence totally fucked the team

Ok, we generally weren't on our game but for me it was the big difference

Is there a full moon?

Because I agree with you

[Mac76]

Some guy outside the ground still trying to sell match scarves :pal:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

0-1 FT.

What I expected tbh.

Slacking off in the previous game, utterly pointless.

I was in your corner regarding the silly result this weekend and what it could mean for us in this game.

At the end of the day, this has been a fair result. One thing a lot of us have said about Arteta's system, it tries to be so intricate that all the cogs need to work to ensure it prevails.

Odegaard has been a passenger for ages.
Rice was forced to play deeper than he has when he's been terrific.
Merino couldn't lead the line and bring others into the game.

And today, not a single superstar performance from anyone to lift the team (though I felt MLS forrays into the midfield was a bit refreshing ).

TBH, I think we should be happy we got out of this only losing one nil.

We've just got to turn up in the next leg and hopefully we've got the team that has got us this far showing up.

[Niall_Quinn]

One word - Partey

His absence totally fucked the team

Ok, we generally weren't on our game but for me it was the big difference

Yeah. And he looked like a total bum sitting there. But one stupid decision at the end of the game - and that fucked up ref who tried to do us on the pens.

And now here comes that utter twat Raya. He better sort his act out.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I was in your corner regarding the silly result this weekend and what it could mean for us in this game.

At the end of the day, this has been a fair result. One thing a lot of us have said about Arteta's system, it tries to be so intricate that all the cogs need to work to ensure it prevails.

Odegaard has been a passenger for ages.
Rice was forced to play deeper than he has when he's been terrific.
Merino couldn't lead the line and bring others into the game.

And today, not a single superstar performance from anyone to lift the team (though I felt MLS forrays into the midfield was a bit refreshing ).

TBH, I think we should be happy we got out of this only losing one nil.

We've just got to turn up in the next leg and hopefully we've got the team that has got us this far showing up.

I admire your optimism but we are out

We had to go there with a lead, we certainly couldn’t afford a deficit. It plays into their hands. To repeat myself We are out

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Post Hoc Fallacy. This thing happened after the other thing therefore because of that thing

It’s like sneezing and a car alarm goes off half way down the street and saying the sneeze caused that

If we showed our professionalism in the previous game I'd have no case to present.

I've seen this so many times from us an yet I'm being told I am creating fallacies.

Your example is ridiculous and you know it. How many times have you heard about momentum in football.

Now how many times have you heard about sneezing in preparation for a game of this magnitude.

Why you don't want us to be leaving no stone unturned and leaving nothing to chance I cannot fathom.

You said we were pussies so clearly you don't think we've left everything out there, so why not?

Sneezing and car alarms I guess.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

One word - Partey

His absence totally fucked the team

Ok, we generally weren't on our game but for me it was the big difference

It changed the balance of things and made Arteta tinker, which by now everyone should know that it's not an ability that comes natural to him at all.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah. And he looked like a total bum sitting there. But one stupid decision at the end of the game - and that fucked up ref who tried to do us on the pens.

And now here comes that utter twat Raya. He better sort his act out.

That utter twat who made at least two big saves in the match?. Raya is probably the only one of them (with Lewis-Skelly as well) who comes out of this with any credibility

Actually Trossard did his best considering he’s not a striker

[Niall_Quinn]

I was in your corner regarding the silly result this weekend and what it could mean for us in this game.

At the end of the day, this has been a fair result. One thing a lot of us have said about Arteta's system, it tries to be so intricate that all the cogs need to work to ensure it prevails.

Odegaard has been a passenger for ages.
Rice was forced to play deeper than he has when he's been terrific.
Merino couldn't lead the line and bring others into the game.

And today, not a single superstar performance from anyone to lift the team (though I felt MLS forrays into the midfield was a bit refreshing ).

TBH, I think we should be happy we got out of this only losing one nil.

We've just got to turn up in the next leg and hopefully we've got the team that has got us this far showing up.

MLS was great and totally owned his opponent. Yep, Odegard might as well have been playing for the other lot. So much broke down around him. And all those millions of touches, just to play it backwards or lose it. Rice seemed to be doing the work of two players back there, I thought Merino was supposed to be back there with him. Then again, we have been asking the guy to be a 9 and then suddenly say go back to the middle, in the CL semis! Could be he's a bit confused by now.

The refs are a big problem, no real way to overcome them. But stick Partey back in, get Rice back up there and then just go at them 100mp. Could actually be a blessing to be down in this one. Shame to lose to such an ordinary opponent. They were shite. But probably shite because they didn't need to play after 4 mins so tuirtled up. They'll likely be a lot better in Paris and I hope they are. Because their defence is shite and every time we hit them we hit them back twice.

[Niall_Quinn]

That utter twat who made at least two big saves in the match?. Raya is probably the only one of them (with Lewis-Skelly as well) who comes out of this with any credibility

That's his job! And it was hardly Pat Jennings! I'm talking about his comical distribution, the constant oressure he puts on the team with his fuckery, playing it right into the danger zone in front of goal, taking extra touches in the box, wandering all over the fucking shop. How many goals has he cost us this season?

Proper keeper required.

[Mac76]

Is there a full moon?

Because I agree with you

:lol:

Well it was so glaring, took Rice from where he's become so dangerous / influential and for me Merino' s better at 9 than Leo who simply doesn't have the physical presence

[Niall_Quinn]

Shame to have lost at home to the fucking French though. Especially as we couldn't be bothered.

[Niall_Quinn]

I admire your optimism but we are out

We had to go there with a lead, we certainly couldn’t afford a deficit. It plays into their hands. To repeat myself We are out

You wish. But still another leg to go.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

Well it was so glaring, took Rice from where he's become so dangerous / influential and for me Merino' s better at 9 than Leo who simply doesn't have the physical presence

He fancies Partey. Anyone's going to agree with you if you compliment their girlfriend.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Even our tifo was half arsed.

[Niall_Quinn]

The fat whore-shagger is wondering why the fans weren't as noisy as they were against Madrid. How do people that stupid become so successful? Does it not dawn on his the Madrid games was ENTERTAINING?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:lol:

Well it was so glaring, took Rice from where he's become so dangerous / influential and for me Merino' s better at 9 than Leo who simply doesn't have the physical presence

Like I said earlier, he should have experimented with someone else to play the Partey role with the 2 matches we had before this game.

This would have allowed the least disruption to his system with Partey out. The Trossard and Merino switch was just stupid against one of the best teams in the world.

[Niall_Quinn]

Even our tifo was half arsed.

Don't think that was a tifo. Think that was an attempt to avoid watching.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we showed our professionalism in the previous game I'd have no case to present.

I've seen this so many times from us an yet I'm being told I am creating fallacies.

Your example is ridiculous and you know it. How many times have you heard about momentum in football.

Now how many times have you heard about sneezing in preparation for a game of this magnitude.

Why you don't want us to be leaving no stone unturned and leaving nothing to chance I cannot fathom.

You said we were pussies so clearly you don't think we've left everything out there, so why not?

Sneezing and car alarms I guess.

Don’t normally see this from you….but it’s good to see you’ve got a bit of fire alongside your vidiprinter duties

Yeah I think we were pussies out there, but your problem is you have no substantive evidence that this has anything to do with a game six days earlier.

I think the bigger problem (and god help me for saying this) is as Mac pointed out the lack of Partey and Arteta had two weeks to come up with a solution and he chose the safest option with Merino.

This season there has been very little overlap between the league and the champions league in terms of both performances and results.

Also, if what you say about momentum is true. How come PSG who lost 3-1 at home to Nice made us look like a bunch of Charlies?

[Mac76]

I admire your optimism but we are out

We had to go there with a lead, we certainly couldn’t afford a deficit. It plays into their hands. To repeat myself We are out

PSG were so sharp, unless they have a bad day and we're 200 per cent better than today it's done

[Mac76]

Don't think that was a tifo. Think that was an attempt to avoid watching.

:lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Don’t normally see this from you….but it’s good to see you’ve got a bit of fire alongside your vidiprinter duties

Yeah I think we were pussies out there, but your problem is you have no substantive evidence that this has anything to do with a game six days earlier.

I think the bigger problem (and god help me for saying this) is as Mac pointed out the lack of Partey and Arteta had two weeks to come up with a solution and he chose the safest option with Merino.

This season there has been very little overlap between the league and the champions league in terms of both performances and results.

Also, if what you say about momentum is true. How come PSG who lost 3-1 at home to Nice made us look like a bunch of Charlies?

Again like I said before, I care about what works for US, not other teams.

[Mac76]

.

Also, if what you say about momentum is true. How come PSG who lost 3-1 at home to Nice made us look like a bunch of Charlies?

I guess there really is a full moon :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Like I said earlier, he should have experimented with someone else to play the Partey role with the 2 matches we had before this game.

This would have allowed the least disruption to his system with Partey out. The Trossard and Merino switch was just stupid against one of the best teams in the world.

Trouble is, Odegard is un-droppable (though he shouldn't be). He's not just been off-form for months, he's had NO form for months. So we had to carry him AND compensate for Partey's absence, double whammy. I'd have put Nwaneri in for Odegard, left Merino up top and brought White into the line-up somehow - or even played Trossard in there because that's where he ended up playing anyway. Did you see our bench? Kids and Sterling. Nothing in reserve really. Do we have any more 5th place challenge matches in-between? Play the fucking kids, we CANNOT afford to pick up a single injury.

[Marc Overmars]

Sometimes you just have to admit you weren’t anywhere near the level of your opponent and this was one of those nights for me. They were much sharper and confident than us, popping the ball around with ease and making us look like statues.

Conceding so early definitely rattled us, if we had weathered that early storm then we may have grown into it but after that we just looked distinctly average because the gameplan had gone.

Saying all that though, we still forced a couple of good saves and on paper 0-1 is hardly a disaster. Pressure is all on PSG to finish it off in front of their fans.

Probably ends in tears for us but let’s fucking leave it all out there. Don’t want another limp dick effort like we saw in the Bayern second leg last year.

[Mac76]

Sometimes you just have to admit you weren’t anywhere near the level of your opponent and this was one of those nights for me. They were much sharper and confident than us, popping the ball around with ease and making us look like statues.

Conceding so early definitely rattled us, if we had weathered that early storm then we may have grown into it but after that we just looked distinctly average because the gameplan had gone.

Saying all that though, we still forced a couple of good saves and on paper 0-1 is hardly a disaster. Pressure is all on PSG to finish it off in front of their fans.

Probably ends in tears for us but let’s fucking leave it all out there. Don’t want another limp dick effort like we saw in the Bayern second leg last year.

Great post, agree on all fronts

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again like I said before, I care about what works for US, not other teams.

What works for us apparently is not having a semi fit Saka, Rice not acting like an effeminate Nancy boy when asked to play his natural position, Merino in central midfield and Timber playing like an actual slag.

I wanted to beat Palace as much as you did, but again I just can’t see any connection between that game and tonight.


I’m sorry I just can’t.

[Mac76]

Trouble is, Odegard is un-droppable (though he shouldn't be). He's not just been off-form for months, he's had NO form for months. So we had to carry him AND compensate for Partey's absence, double whammy. I'd have put Nwaneri in for Odegard, left Merino up top and brought White into the line-up somehow - or even played Trossard in there because that's where he ended up playing anyway. Did you see our bench? Kids and Sterling. Nothing in reserve really. Do we have any more 5th place challenge matches in-between? Play the fucking kids, we CANNOT afford to pick up a single injury.

Agree with this too

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trouble is, Odegard is un-droppable (though he shouldn't be). He's not just been off-form for months, he's had NO form for months. So we had to carry him AND compensate for Partey's absence, double whammy. I'd have put Nwaneri in for Odegard, left Merino up top and brought White into the line-up somehow - or even played Trossard in there because that's where he ended up playing anyway. Did you see our bench? Kids and Sterling. Nothing in reserve really. Do we have any more 5th place challenge matches in-between? Play the fucking kids, we CANNOT afford to pick up a single injury.

Nwaneri coming on fucked me off unimaginably, why the fuck wasn’t this done at least twenty minutes sooner

And yes absolutely think we should have dropped Odegaard and used the league games to give Nwaneri game time in central midfield

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What works for us apparently is not having a semi fit Saka, Rice not acting like an effeminate Nancy boy when asked to play his natural position, Merino in central midfield and Timber playing like an actual slag.

I wanted to beat Palace as much as you did, but again I just can’t see any connection between that game and tonight.


I’m sorry I just can’t.

Sure ok. Speak again next season when the same scenario comes up.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Don’t normally see this from you….but it’s good to see you’ve got a bit of fire alongside your vidiprinter duties

Yeah I think we were pussies out there, but your problem is you have no substantive evidence that this has anything to do with a game six days earlier.

I think the bigger problem (and god help me for saying this) is as Mac pointed out the lack of Partey and Arteta had two weeks to come up with a solution and he chose the safest option with Merino.

This season there has been very little overlap between the league and the champions league in terms of both performances and results.

Also, if what you say about momentum is true. How come PSG who lost 3-1 at home to Nice made us look like a bunch of Charlies?

HCZ there is no way you are going to win an argument against momentum in football as their is more than a 100 years of stats to show it exists and is a real thing.

Anyway, one thing I think you are failing to consider is the Home and Away element to our performances this season.

What I mean is we had spells where we had a few games at home in a row, and one bad result just kept pulling more of the same.

If I am correct, the crucial period earlier this year (or was it late last year) where we had like 3 or 4 home games in a row and we ended not winning any (or was it winning one), which I think resulted in us exiting one of the cups.

Anyway, its difficult to come to the same stadium where you inexcusably let people down 7 days ago and pull out a world beating performances in front of the same crowd especially when the opposition has scored within the first 4 mins..... come on, both the fans and the players are actually human.

EDIT: Found what I was looking for, it was in January, 5 games at home in a 2 week period

LLWDW

Started of with Newcastle beating is in the 1st leg of the semi (CC), Man U dumping us out of the FA cup 3 days later, our 3rd best performance this season in front of the fans at home against Spuds (IIRC), A draw against Villa and an expected win against Zagreb in the CL.

Make of the stats what you will, but I see a pattern.

[Marc Overmars]

I’m sick of Odegaard this season tbh, don’t know what’s happened to him. Yeah bad injury but that was 8 months ago, he’s had enough game time to play himself back into form but he’s just gone into hiding. Won’t win anything with him as a central figure. Weak personality and wouldn’t look out of place in those joke teams Wenger had in his latter years.

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ there is no way you are going to win an argument against momentum in football as their is more than a 100 years of stats to show it exists and is a real thing.

Anyway, one thing I think you are failing to consider is the Home and Away element to our performances this season.

What I mean is we had spells where we had a few games at home in a row, and one bad result just kept pulling more of the same.

If I am correct, the crucial period earlier this year (or was it late last year) where we had like 3 or 4 home games in a row and we ended not winning any (or was it winning one), which I think resulted in us exiting one of the cups.

Anyway, its difficult to come to the same stadium where you inexcusably let people down 7 days ago and pull out a world beating performances in front of the same crowd especially when the opposition has scored within the first 4 mins..... come on, both the fans and the players are actually human.


It’s a very online thing to do, to argue from binaries

I’m not arguing momentum doesn’t exist, but there’s also clear examples of teams (including us) playing dreck in one competition and putting in top performances in another.

Our history shows of course that poor form in one game bleeds into another no matter what the competition. This season indicates that there’s been a degree of compartmentalisation. And I simply don’t see how you can argue Momentum is not a factor when we win in Europe and it is a factor when we lose.


The last time we were in a European cup semi final, we lost the away and home leg but we won the premier league games before and between the ties.

[Niall_Quinn]

What works for us apparently is not having a semi fit Saka, Rice not acting like an effeminate Nancy boy when asked to play his natural position, Merino in central midfield and Timber playing like an actual slag.

I wanted to beat Palace as much as you did, but again I just can’t see any connection between that game and tonight.


I’m sorry I just can’t.

There's literally two decades of examples. Even with the Invincibles, we fucking knew when they were slacking off, and they did. And they were innvincible by the skin of their teeth, some of those games were knife-edge because the boys took a day off. Then there are the world famous collpases. Usuaily ushered in by not bothering to turn up for cup games. Then there goes the league followed by Europe all in the space of weeks - you never saw any of that?

Best streak of momentum I can recall is when not just the first team but also the reserves were putting it out there, 100%, game after game and you couldn't tell the difference between them. I remember going into games KNOWING we'd win - that was a given. I;d be pissed sometimes because the performance was not all it could be, or because we'd slack off after the 4th goal.

I get injuries and season demands - but we have a fucking ton of injuries anyway, playing pitter patter! Throw it all on the line and see who's left standing. Only way to play sport, every time. It's what winners do. It's the reason everyone KNEW we wouldn't catch City, or City would overhaul us, because we all said - they won't lose a single game.

MOMENTUM. Counts.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It’s a very online thing to do, to argue from binaries

I’m not arguing momentum doesn’t exist, but there’s also clear examples of teams (including us) playing dreck in one competition and putting in top performances in another.

Our history shows of course that poor form in one game bleeds into another no matter what the competition. This season indicates that there’s been a degree of compartmentalisation. And I simply don’t see how you can argue Momentum is not a factor when we win in Europe and it is a factor when we lose.


The last time we were in a European cup semi final, we lost the away and home leg but we won the premier league games before and between the ties.

Its fine, I don't think either of us is going to move on this.

I've updated my post to show the period I was talking about.

Like I said earlier, I am ok with this result, all things considered (and by that I mean the self imposed limitations we have with the kind of manager we employed).

[Marc Overmars]

I don’t believe this was all about momentum as such, I just feel like we hit a ceiling tonight. We’ve shown for most of the season that while we are difficult to beat, we aren’t actually very good and desperately need better players in certain positions if we are ever going to get over the line and win a trophy.

Every dog has its day and maybe Real Madrid was that day for us. Deep down we all know the second leg of this is beyond us even though it’s still close. I would be stunned if we somehow found the courage and quality to turn it around.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's literally two decades of examples. Even with the Invincibles, we fucking knew when they were slacking off, and they did. And they were innvincible by the skin of their teeth, some of those games were knife-edge because the boys took a day off. Then there are the world famous collpases. Usuaily ushered in by not bothering to turn up for cup games. Then there goes the league followed by Europe all in the space of weeks - you never saw any of that?

Best streak of momentum I can recall is when not just the first team but also the reserves were putting it out there, 100%, game after game and you couldn't tell the difference between them. I remember going into games KNOWING we'd win - that was a given. I;d be pissed sometimes because the performance was not all it could be, or because we'd slack off after the 4th goal.

I get injuries and season demands - but we have a fucking ton of injuries anyway, playing pitter patter! Throw it all on the line and see who's left standing. Only way to play sport, every time. It's what winners do. It's the reason everyone KNEW we wouldn't catch City, or City would overhaul us, because we all said - they won't lose a single game.

MOMENTUM. Counts.

It clearly didn’t count for PSG tonight

As I keep saying it’s not an either or. This season momentum has meant fuck all to us because we’ve never had any. We’ve got to the semi finals despite never winning more than three league games in a row all season.

Momentum can be very important of course in football. What I’m dismissing is the false binary that it’s either always important or never important. And this season, it’s been largely peripheral for us.

The most obvious factors in tonight’s defeat were missing Partey and PSG making us behave like a load of cowards when it came to 50/50 balls. We could have pulverised Palace and that would have still been a problem for us tonight

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I am unsure why you are all this pessimistic.

From what I see, their style of play suits us and as long as we don't have injuries and Arteta does a 360 and gets them to take the league seriously (which we always had to anyway), I think we will be ok in Paris.

[Mac76]

I don’t believe this was all about momentum as such, I just feel like we hit a ceiling tonight. We’ve shown for most of the season that while we are difficult to beat, we aren’t actually very good and desperately need better players in certain positions if we are ever going to get over the line and win a trophy.

Every dog has its day and maybe Real Madrid was that day for us. Deep down we all know the second leg of this is beyond us even though it’s still close. I would be stunned if we somehow found the courage and quality to turn it around.

Generally agree, though I wouldn't be stunned but it would certainly require an unlikely turnaround, still just one goal is just one goal, maybe Arteta goes into FAC 2019-20 mode and contrives to pub a win :pray:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I am unsure why you are all this pessimistic.

From what I see, their style of play suits us and as long as we don't have injuries and Arteta does a 360 and gets them to take the league seriously (which we always had to anyway), I think we will be ok in Paris.

I’m being cruel to be kind. It’s over

You saw for yourself how they were able to smother the game in the second half. They didn’t feel the need to over exert themselves…that’s why the scoreline is 1-0.

They won’t need to come out at us like Real did two weeks ago. We may even keep a clean sheet over there. But they aren’t giving us the time or space to score. Why would they, they wont be chasing the tie.

It’s done with

[Mac76]

Nwaneri coming on fucked me off unimaginably, why the fuck wasn’t this done at least twenty minutes sooner

And yes absolutely think we should have dropped Odegaard and used the league games to give Nwaneri game time in central midfield

Odegaard is approaching the state where he's completely pointless, while he doesn't generally fuck up as royally as Zinchenko, the uselessness of his play gets to a similar point where he's just standing in between two players who could just as easily ( and more effectively) pass directly to each other

[Marc Overmars]

I am unsure why you are all this pessimistic.

From what I see, their style of play suits us and as long as we don't have injuries and Arteta does a 360 and gets them to take the league seriously (which we always had to anyway), I think we will be ok in Paris.

Not sure how you can say their style of play suits us because for large parts of the game we couldn’t even get the ball off them. Partey in the second leg should improve us but overall I feel like we are just going to be huffing and puffing and they will probably go and score a goal or two in transitions.

It’s not impossible but based on this game they are a much better team than us.

Crazy things can happen though in the CL and hopefully we are able to settle quickly out there. Villa cranked it up a notch and they wobbled, so the pressure is all on them to see this out. Can’t remember us turning around many first leg deficits though it has to be said, would be our greatest CL night ever if we did.

[dazthegooner]

I read a couple of days ago that Odegaard hasn't reeally fully recovered from his injury and will have to have an op to fix it a the end of the season.
So it seems if this is the case Arteta shoildn't have been playing him, have him on the bench and play Nwaneri instead.

[KSE Comedy Club]

PSG were not that good IMO, yes they had some chances but so did we. Their 'ferocious attack' only really lasted 20 odd mins or so and then it was more about retaining possession in the midfield areas. In fact if we weren't being so bloody cowardly, there is a good chance we would have been able to put some attacking pressure on them in the second half.

I don't think our performance was good enough and there was way too much safety back passing and a lack of real energy (Rice walking over to take a fucking corner ffs)

However, we are only 1-0 down and Partey will be back.
That means Merino back up top and Trossard on the bench where he belongs - we will have much more control of the game and I think we will beat them and go through.

[KSE Comedy Club]

If we showed our professionalism in the previous game I'd have no case to present.

I've seen this so many times from us an yet I'm being told I am creating fallacies.

Your example is ridiculous and you know it. How many times have you heard about momentum in football.

Now how many times have you heard about sneezing in preparation for a game of this magnitude.

Why you don't want us to be leaving no stone unturned and leaving nothing to chance I cannot fathom.

You said we were pussies so clearly you don't think we've left everything out there, so why not?

Sneezing and car alarms I guess.

I feel the same.

They gave zero fucks about the Palace game and then levels were dropped too far to be able to raise them again for this game.

Mind you using hcz's analogy, I did think that the fans were drawn into almost comical silence, by the lame, hafl arsed performance against Palace - and that in turn made it more difficult to get the atmosphere up to high levels for last night.

Had we beaten Palace, that would have been a spring board to continue the 'high' and maintain the winning attitude.

[KSE Comedy Club]

That utter twat who made at least two big saves in the match?. Raya is probably the only one of them (with Lewis-Skelly as well) who comes out of this with any credibility

Actually Trossard did his best considering he’s not a striker

Trossard was dogshit.
Since the Strop (what is the code for 'tm' these days? It's ruining my posting, lol) he has been fucking awful when he's started games. Best example of an impact sub we've had in years.

He's not a striker but he should know the basics of football by now - like when to run into the box instead of standing in the midfield, how to receive a basic pass, how to pass the ball out quickly to evade danger, etc

[selassie]

I don’t believe this was all about momentum as such, I just feel like we hit a ceiling tonight. We’ve shown for most of the season that while we are difficult to beat, we aren’t actually very good and desperately need better players in certain positions if we are ever going to get over the line and win a trophy.

Every dog has its day and maybe Real Madrid was that day for us. Deep down we all know the second leg of this is beyond us even though it’s still close. I would be stunned if we somehow found the courage and quality to turn it around.

Yeah I agree with this. We have been way too Jekyl and Hyde this season, in PL we haven’t even properly challenged Liverpool, they won that title months ago.

We have done well in CL, but last night we more than met our match, for the first 25 mins they had us chasing shadows last night, they completely dominated, it was painful viewing.

PSG are a very good team at home, I honestly rate our chances at 10% Yes we will likely score over there but I think they will score minimum 2 goals.

I was really disappointed with our performance last night, we were poor pretty much all game, they were decent in spells.

[Marc Overmars]

I feel the same.

They gave zero fucks about the Palace game and then levels were dropped too far to be able to raise them again for this game.

Mind you using hcz's analogy, I did think that the fans were drawn into almost comical silence, by the lame, hafl arsed performance against Palace - and that in turn made it more difficult to get the atmosphere up to high levels for last night.

Had we beaten Palace, that would have been a spring board to continue the 'high' and maintain the winning attitude.

I think the fans simply came in expectant and much like the team, were rather shell shocked after the early goal and couldn’t raise it once it became apparent PSG had full control. We haven’t demonstrated much in terms of powers of recovery this season, when we go a goal down it usually means we aren’t going to win.

[Letters]

Should have smashed them. Trossard and Odegard with sitters.
Which were both well saved. Shearer, who knows a thing or two about scoring goals, praised the 'keeper. There was no suggestion from him that they were weak shots.


No wonder Villa wrecked them.
:lol: Yeah, they "wrecked" them 3-2, having lost 3-1 away. You know PSG went through from that tie, right? That's why it's us against PSG, not Villa
:doh:

[Letters]

We may have come in it to with better sharpness. We didn't show professionalism and you just can't turn it on like a tap when you want.

You told me it wouldn't matter because we drew in previous games prior to Real Madrid.

That went real well.

I didn't tell you anything. I just pointed out - as did others - there are multiple examples, including the Real games, where we dropped silly points in games and then went on to win the subsequent cup games. 92/93 was another example - we drew before the Spurs semi-final, we lost both games before the cup finals. There are other examples.
I'm not saying momentum isn't important in football and of course I'd rather we'd beaten Palace, I just don't buy that a better performance and result there would necessarily have meant a better outcome last night. Correlation famously does not equal causation.
Let's face it, PSG are a much better side than we play most weeks in the PL - they humped Liverpool who have been better than us this season and despite a bit of a scare they got past Villa too. We weren't that bad last night, we were just playing a very good side. The first 20 minutes we looked overawed but we played our way in to the game and but for an offside and a couple of good saves we could have got a better result. Could have been worse too of course. I don't think this tie is over yet. PSG clearly favourites but it would be insane to give up at just 1-0.

[Letters]

I admire your optimism but we are out

We had to go there with a lead, we certainly couldn’t afford a deficit. It plays into their hands. To repeat myself We are out

I am an eternal optimist so I'm not ready to throw the towel in just yet.
But I said that about the title and we know how that went :haha:

1-0 is...less than ideal but with Partey back...I dunno, we only have to score a goal and then it all gets interesting.
Head says you're right, heart says...well, you never know!

[Marc Overmars]

Just reading an article about how shit the tifo was. A laughable effort really considering the club turned down a supporters group who had designs of their own.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I am an eternal optimist so I'm not ready to throw the towel in just yet.
But I said that about the title and we know how that went :haha:

1-0 is...less than ideal but with Partey back...I dunno, we only have to score a goal and then it all gets interesting.
Head says you're right, heart says...well, you never know!

There’s a Roy Orbison song you should listen to

[Letters]

Sometimes you just have to admit you weren’t anywhere near the level of your opponent and this was one of those nights for me. They were much sharper and confident than us, popping the ball around with ease and making us look like statues.

Conceding so early definitely rattled us, if we had weathered that early storm then we may have grown into it but after that we just looked distinctly average because the gameplan had gone.

Saying all that though, we still forced a couple of good saves and on paper 0-1 is hardly a disaster. Pressure is all on PSG to finish it off in front of their fans.

Probably ends in tears for us but let’s fucking leave it all out there. Don’t want another limp dick effort like we saw in the Bayern second leg last year.
:gp:

[Letters]

There’s a Roy Orbison song you should listen to

In Dreams? :cool:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think the fans simply came in expectant and much like the team, were rather shell shocked after the early goal and couldn’t raise it once it became apparent PSG had full control. We haven’t demonstrated much in terms of powers of recovery this season, when we go a goal down it usually means we aren’t going to win.

That is also true

[KSE Comedy Club]

Which were both well saved. Shearer, who knows a thing or two about scoring goals, praised the 'keeper. There was no suggestion from him that they were weak shots.


:lol: Yeah, they "wrecked" them 3-2, having lost 3-1 away. You know PSG went through from that tie, right? That's why it's us against PSG, not Villa
:doh:

I do think though, that the forwards need to learn to chip the ball when 1v1 with the keeper.

Martinelli too. you aren't always going to curl it round into the corner, when you see the keeper going down then just lift it up over him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I do think though, that the forwards need to learn to chip the ball when 1v1 with the keeper.

Martinelli too. you aren't always going to curl it round into the corner, when you see the keeper going down then just lift it up over him.

IIRC Martinelli use to do that a lot in his early days.

Carlos Vela was a player we had that never failed to take that opportunity to do it, in fact it was a bit excessive from him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not sure how you can say their style of play suits us because for large parts of the game we couldn’t even get the ball off them. Partey in the second leg should improve us but overall I feel like we are just going to be huffing and puffing and they will probably go and score a goal or two in transitions.

It’s not impossible but based on this game they are a much better team than us.

Crazy things can happen though in the CL and hopefully we are able to settle quickly out there. Villa cranked it up a notch and they wobbled, so the pressure is all on them to see this out. Can’t remember us turning around many first leg deficits though it has to be said, would be our greatest CL night ever if we did.

Yesterday's game marked the first time this season that we'd lose to a team that had more possession than us.

The 4 times we've played teams that have more quality than us ( 2 games against Citeh, 2 games against Madrid), we lost none of those games despite lossing the possession stats in 3 of those games. In fact, if not for the red card, I'm pretty certain we'd have beaten Citeh twice this season and have a 100% record against opposition that are better than us and come out.

Yes, HCZ seems to think PSG will just sit back and defend in Paris, but PSG cannot help but play in a certain way, especially in front of their fans. They will dominate the possession stats and come at us. I always felt the 2nd leg would be key for us because I expected PSG to bring the game to us in Paris, which they still have to with this slim margin.

If we stick to what we do best, we beat this PSG team 8 times in every 10 games, as they play to our strengths.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think they’ll just sit back and defend, but they absolutely won’t leave any space for us to exploit and the game will resemble the second half last night. Like a damp towel over a pan fire

[Niall_Quinn]

Which were both well saved. Shearer, who knows a thing or two about scoring goals, praised the 'keeper. There was no suggestion from him that they were weak shots.


:lol: Yeah, they "wrecked" them 3-2, having lost 3-1 away. You know PSG went through from that tie, right? That's why it's us against PSG, not Villa
:doh:

Oh, you mean we weren't playing Villa last night?

Now, being the decent Christian you are, I've dismissed the notion you'd be trying to score cheap internet points with your response. So you must genuinely believe by "wrecked" I forgot PSG won and thought we were playing Villa last night. Correct?

Whereas, in fact, by wrecked I meant cut through their defence like butter and smashed in 3 goals.

Next time I'll say, I hope we beat PSG in the next leg (and it won't be Villa we are playing in that match). Will that help you?

[Niall_Quinn]

It clearly didn’t count for PSG tonight

As I keep saying it’s not an either or. This season momentum has meant fuck all to us because we’ve never had any. We’ve got to the semi finals despite never winning more than three league games in a row all season.

Momentum can be very important of course in football. What I’m dismissing is the false binary that it’s either always important or never important. And this season, it’s been largely peripheral for us.

The most obvious factors in tonight’s defeat were missing Partey and PSG making us behave like a load of cowards when it came to 50/50 balls. We could have pulverised Palace and that would have still been a problem for us tonight

That's an interesting take. The ref played a huge part in taking the edge out of the game and giving PSG the time and space they needed. He also ensured their constant fouling went mainly unpunished while booking our players for nothing. Several PSG players should have had reds for accumulated yellows. Personally I don't believe there should have been any yellows and that 90% of the play should have been waved on - fairly of course, not in the way the corrupt ref did it last night. But he set the standard and by that standard there should have been 20-30 bookings.

This active style of reffing can have a big influence on a game, and it did.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am unsure why you are all this pessimistic.

From what I see, their style of play suits us and as long as we don't have injuries and Arteta does a 360 and gets them to take the league seriously (which we always had to anyway), I think we will be ok in Paris.

Should have beaten them last night, if we cut out the BS and get stuck into them in Paris they'll crumble. PSG have a good midfield but their defence is lousy. Put our shooting boots on and we could fill them.

Concerned about the ref though. Twice now we've had refs that actively came out to influence the result.

[Mac76]

That's an interesting take. The ref played a huge part in taking the edge out of the game and giving PSG the time and space they needed. He also ensured their constant fouling went mainly unpunished while booking our players for nothing. Several PSG players should have had reds for accumulated yellows. Personally I don't believe there should have been any yellows and that 90% of the play should have been waved on - fairly of course, not in the way the corrupt ref did it last night. But he set the standard and by that standard there should have been 20-30 bookings.

This active style of reffing can have a big influence on a game, and it did.

Yeah the ref was bad and def not on our side

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think he was just weak, set a dangerous precedent for himself early on that he could never properly or consistently enforce

Think he gave them silly yellow cards for nothing as well

[Niall_Quinn]

PSG were not that good IMO, yes they had some chances but so did we. Their 'ferocious attack' only really lasted 20 odd mins or so and then it was more about retaining possession in the midfield areas. In fact if we weren't being so bloody cowardly, there is a good chance we would have been able to put some attacking pressure on them in the second half.

I don't think our performance was good enough and there was way too much safety back passing and a lack of real energy (Rice walking over to take a fucking corner ffs)

However, we are only 1-0 down and Partey will be back.
That means Merino back up top and Trossard on the bench where he belongs - we will have much more control of the game and I think we will beat them and go through.

They weren't that good, but you know what the pundits are like. Dembele, apart from one scuffer which was entirely unintentional was anonymous. That beardy guy who flopped in the box, he was the main threat from their previous matches and he was neutralised too. Their defence was a shambles every time we decided to go at them instead of tap it around in front of them. We basically played right into their hands, except for a brief spell in both halves where we dominated them and should have scored at least 2.

But we were also extremely loose in the middle, first goal was a joke, and had several brainfarts at the back which are unusual. That constant fucking around at the back also put unnecessary pressure on us. We did enough things wrong to make it a 50/50 game with both teams being wasteful up front. particularly us.

I also don't get that dumb FK routine where we have to get everyone onside by barging through a wall of defenders. Surely that's an open invitation to VAR every time?

[Niall_Quinn]

I think he was just weak, set a dangerous precedent for himself early on that he could never properly or consistently enforce

Think he gave them silly yellow cards for nothing as well

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

[Mac76]

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

It certainly looked one-sided, though I've kinda given up trying to work out wtf goes on in these people's minds, i just wish they'd do their bloody jobs properly

[Letters]

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

Probably should ignore the penalty he didn't give early doors when someone that intent on affecting the result could have given it.
When they showed the replay the commentators noted that if he'd given it VAR wouldn't have overturned it. Would have been soft, but if he was as hellbent on affecting things as much as you claim why not give that one?

[IBK]

If we showed our professionalism in the previous game I'd have no case to present.

I've seen this so many times from us an yet I'm being told I am creating fallacies.

Your example is ridiculous and you know it. How many times have you heard about momentum in football.

Now how many times have you heard about sneezing in preparation for a game of this magnitude.

Why you don't want us to be leaving no stone unturned and leaving nothing to chance I cannot fathom.

You said we were pussies so clearly you don't think we've left everything out there, so why not?

Sneezing and car alarms I guess.

:gp:

I find those who dismiss the importance of momentum in football, or indeed professional sport baffling. Whether it was distraction; attempting to avoid injury or deliberately trying to conserve energy in the Palace game, my view is that the weekend did have some consequences for PSG. We were not sharp and focussed for the first part of the PSG game, and it's very difficult to escape the feeling that had we used the Palace game as a primer for Tuesday's game this might not have happened. You could even turn it around and say that we were too wild (and therefore agitated) initially at the Emirates on Tuesday, having placed the emphasis on this, rather than the Palace game.

People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL, but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule. Like I've said, you cannot turn professional performances on and off - it's a habit. At this level, the margins are super fine, and our preparation for Tuesday was not good. Dropping points to Palace has also affected our preparation for the return fixture - as our league position and even finishing in the CL places for next season is now considerably less secure, which makes Bournemouth almost a must win - given our remaining league games.

[Mac76]

People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL, but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule.

Oh dear, not the 'exception proving the rule' argument - are you HCZ in disguise? :lol:

...how about we turn it round and say drawing the Palace game not helping us before this was the exception...?

PSG lost their game before they played us - is that another exception...?

OK if someone lost 10 games straight prior to an important match, that's a momentum issue but not teams with limted squads seeking to protect their resources immediately prior to a very big game

The ony mistake in the Palace game aas the inexplicable decision to start Sterling and not Nwaneri

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh dear, not the 'exception proving the rule' argument - are you HCZ in disguise? :lol:

...how about we turn it round and say drawing the Palace game not helping us before this was the exception...?

PSG lost their game before they played us - is that another exception...?

OK if someone lost 10 games straight prior to an important match, that's a momentum issue but not teams with limted squads seeking to protect their resources immediately prior to a very big game

The ony mistake in the Palace game aas the inexplicable decision to start Sterling and not Nwaneri

Still waiting on you to explain how Jamie Vardy makes every concern I have about a 26/27 year old having not played top level domestic football outside of Portugal null and void?

Exception that proves the rule is simply stating that just because something can happen, doesn’t make it likely to happen.

Outside courtroom arguments trying to establish precedent, most people make their case based on what happens more often than not, not on outliers. I can’t believe you would have made it to your late 50s and not realised this.

The problem with the Momentum argument is the tendency a lot of people who argue online have, which is to argue an all or nothing stance. If I say Momentum doesn’t appear to be relevant in this particular case, I’m saying it’s not relevant ever.

Equally to say if we had beaten Palace we’d have done better against PSG is unfalsifiable.

I don’t rule out that beating Palace meant we might have had more confidence going into this game given that we played a pretty strong side. But to assert that it’s objectively the case as the other Mac did, is a post hoc fallacy

Afterwards therefore because of, is a pretty weak argument in my view

[Letters]

I find those who dismiss the importance of momentum in football, or indeed professional sport baffling.
I neither dismiss it nor regard it as the be all and end all.
Would I rather we'd beaten Palace and not dropped silly points? Of course.
Do I think that had we won the Palace game we'd have also beaten PSG? I think that's a massive stretch.


People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL
It is clearly evidence and other examples have been provided.


but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule.
In order to demonstrate that you're going to have to do some proper analysis of league results before cup games and see if there's any interesting correlations.
I honestly don't know either way. But my main point is in the context of a title race which has been over for ages - realistically if not mathematically, till now - I understand why a week before our first semi-final since 2009 the players were perhaps a bit less willing to go flying in to tackles. And whether we deserved to or not (by all accounts not) we'd have won that game anyway had it not been for Saliba's late brainfart. I just think some people are making too much of that result, I'm not convinced it had any bearing on the PSG game. We lost because we were playing one of the best sides in Europe. Even then we had our chances and could have got something.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well let’s look at the results in the champions league since we got back in, in 2023

PSV (H) - Beaten Everton 1-0 the Sunday before, won this game

Lens (A) - Beat Bournemouth 4-0, but lost this game


Sevilla A) - Drew with Chelsea 2-2, won this game


Sevilla (H) - Lost away at Newcastle, won this game


Lens (H) - Won away at Brentford, won this game


PSV (A) - Lost to Villa, drew this game (already qualified and played a weaker team)



Porto (A) - Beat Burnley, lost this game and went on to beat Newcastle at the weekend


Porto (H) - Beat Brentford, won this game and won the tie on pels


Bayern (H) - Beat Brighton, drew this game


Bayern (A) - Lost to Villa, lost this game


Atalanta (A) - Beat Spurs, Drew this game


PSG (H) - Beat Leicester, won this game


Shaktah (H) - Lost to Bournemouth, won this game


Inter (A) - Lost to Newcastle, lost this game


Sporting (A) - Beat Forest, won this game


Monaco (H) - Drew with Fulham, won this game


Dynamo Zagreb (H) - Drew with Villa, won this game


Girona (A) - Beat Wolves, won this game (albeit with a weakened team)


PSV (A) - Couldn’t score against Forest, put 7 past them


PSV (H) - Drew away at United, drew a game where the tie was over



Madrid (H) - Drew away at Everton, won this game


Madrid (A) - Drew at home to Brentford, won this game


PSG (H) - Drew at home to Palace, lost this game


I would say the best you can say is that a definite link is inconclusive, I think there are times where there is clear evidence of Momentum (Scoring 5 at Lisbon, then scoring 5 at West Ham) or the mini collapse in April 2024.

The reason I dismiss momentum or am at least skeptical about it here, is that we’ve clearly never managed to get a winning run together in the league yet we are in the semi finals (albeit that’s as far as we go)

What I think also is a bit of a supposition is that somehow we elected to play poorly against Palace. I’d argue Saka for example looked unfit in both games, we looked nervous in both games…yet we attribute the palace draw to complacency rather than a dip in form/performance.

We were poor in both games, and it leads me to conclude that we have zero chance of overturning the deficit in Paris…not only that but we might put ourselves in severe difficulties for qualifying for the champions league next season. Now if I’m right (and I hope I’m not)….then I think we can talk about Momentum and derailment

[Mac76]

In order to demonstrate that you're going to have to do some proper analysis of league results before cup games and see if there's any interesting correlations.

I'd bet on there being a dip found by a lot of sides just before a major game like this

And good point re Saliba, though maybe it can be argued that his mistake should be considered an aspect of the overall performance rather than a standalone, Odegaard was mildly involved too, way back and too close to Saliba when he made the mistake

[IBK]

I think you've misunderstood the 'rule' I am referring to - and that is that winning momentum - or at least consistency in an approach to games is a thing. The point Maccy was making - with which I agree - is that Saturday's game was not played with the level of professional, focussed approach that we should have shown with the PSG leg on the horizon. @ Letters - no I don't think that winning against Paris would have of itself meant a win on Tuesday night, but in my view we might well have gone into the CL Semi with a different mindset. People far more qualified to speak to these things say that the best performers in any sport focus on executing their game plan and maximizing their performance in each game, regardless of the opponent or the stage of the season.

I don't think we did this on Saturday. And I think that this lack of composure continued into the early part of Tuesday night's game. The performances against RM - also coming after draws - is no argument against this view. Nor is this an empirical argument that is won by citing historical results. For one, you can drop points without performing in as sub par a manner in which we did against Palace. I'm not really sure why the point I have made is so contentious.

And also @ Letters, I am also not saying that this 'momentum' (as a shorthand way of referring to the factors mentioned above) is the be all and end all, but I think we can all agree that at this level fine margins are important and Saturday was not good preparation for PSG.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Should have beaten them last night, if we cut out the BS and get stuck into them in Paris they'll crumble. PSG have a good midfield but their defence is lousy. Put our shooting boots on and we could fill them.

Concerned about the ref though. Twice now we've had refs that actively came out to influence the result.

UEFA don't want an English team to win the CL - we'd have too much dominant representation in European competition.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don’t think they’ll just sit back and defend, but they absolutely won’t leave any space for us to exploit and the game will resemble the second half last night. Like a damp towel over a pan fire

They aren't as defensively solid as us when we have our main starting 11 though.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think you've misunderstood the 'rule' I am referring to - and that is that winning momentum - or at least consistency in an approach to games is a thing. The point Maccy was making - with which I agree - is that Saturday's game was not played with the level of professional, focussed approach that we should have shown with the PSG leg on the horizon. @ Letters - no I don't think that winning against Paris would have of itself meant a win on Tuesday night, but in my view we might well have gone into the CL Semi with a different mindset. People far more qualified to speak to these things say that the best performers in any sport focus on executing their game plan and maximizing their performance in each game, regardless of the opponent or the stage of the season.

I don't think we did this on Saturday. And I think that this lack of composure continued into the early part of Tuesday night's game. The performances against RM - also coming after draws - is no argument against this view. Nor is this an empirical argument that is won by citing historical results. For one, you can drop points without performing in as sub par a manner in which we did against Palace. I'm not really sure why the point I have made is so contentious.

And also @ Letters, I am also not saying that this 'momentum' (as a shorthand way of referring to the factors mentioned above) is the be all and end all, but I think we can all agree that at this level fine margins are important and Saturday was not good preparation for PSG.

Firstly the game was on a Wednesday, which isn’t just pedantry it’s making the point that it was a full six days before hand

Secondly, the suggestion that we played badly against Palace because we were focused on the PSG game (and I suggested it as well) is speculative.

Mac’s argument about momentum rests on the idea that if we’d taken the Palace game seriously, we’d have done better against PSG. You can be poor in a game and still have taken the game seriously. Probably a bit unfair on Palace simply to say if we were at the races we would have wiped the floor with them.

They lost heavily against Newcastle and Man City, but is it not possible that unlike those games they executed a gameplan that we were decidedly uncomfortable with (quick transitions, heavy press on the second ball so we found it harder to play out). The other suggestion is that we sat on a one goal lead, but I think that’s far too oversimplified….i think a) we clearly tried to get the third goal b) I think they had us worried about losing the ball and having to face a quick break.

Now id argue that those same conditions existed in both games, and that PSG and Palace exploited clear weaknesses of ours. Whilst it’s quite troubling that we are phased that easily, I just haven’t been given anything coming close to solid evidence that a) we were complacent against Palace and b) there’s an actual causal link that can’t be dismissed as post hoc fallacy between the two games

[KSE Comedy Club]

They weren't that good, but you know what the pundits are like. Dembele, apart from one scuffer which was entirely unintentional was anonymous. That beardy guy who flopped in the box, he was the main threat from their previous matches and he was neutralised too. Their defence was a shambles every time we decided to go at them instead of tap it around in front of them. We basically played right into their hands, except for a brief spell in both halves where we dominated them and should have scored at least 2.

But we were also extremely loose in the middle, first goal was a joke, and had several brainfarts at the back which are unusual. That constant fucking around at the back also put unnecessary pressure on us. We did enough things wrong to make it a 50/50 game with both teams being wasteful up front. particularly us.

I also don't get that dumb FK routine where we have to get everyone onside by barging through a wall of defenders. Surely that's an open invitation to VAR every time?

Agreed. We were the architects of our own downfall, nothing to do with PSG being 'better' IMO.

All our routines are weird tbh, the time wasting on throws, FK's, GK's, etc.

I still think the Fk where we scored was incorrectly called too.
If you look when the ball is actually played, their defender nearest the camera angle, makes a jump back and brings himself bang in line with Merino. Yet the focus was when Rice's foot was about to hit the ball(??) Hmm.

But yes, we also can't allow Odegaard to take another bloody FK in the next game - just let Rice do it as he is clearly better at it!

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

Yep, everyone I was watching with said the same, dodgy as fuck.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep, everyone I was watching with said the same, dodgy as fuck.

I think as Letters pointed out, if he was deliberately going for us…he’d have given that pel for Timber foul

Weak and incompetent

[IBK]

Firstly the game was on a Wednesday, which isn’t just pedantry it’s making the point that it was a full six days before hand

Secondly, the suggestion that we played badly against Palace because we were focused on the PSG game (and I suggested it as well) is speculative.

Mac’s argument about momentum rests on the idea that if we’d taken the Palace game seriously, we’d have done better against PSG. You can be poor in a game and still have taken the game seriously. Probably a bit unfair on Palace simply to say if we were at the races we would have wiped the floor with them.

They lost heavily against Newcastle and Man City, but is it not possible that unlike those games they executed a gameplan that we were decidedly uncomfortable with (quick transitions, heavy press on the second ball so we found it harder to play out). The other suggestion is that we sat on a one goal lead, but I think that’s far too oversimplified….i think a) we clearly tried to get the third goal b) I think they had us worried about losing the ball and having to face a quick break.

Now id argue that those same conditions existed in both games, and that PSG and Palace exploited clear weaknesses of ours. Whilst it’s quite troubling that we are phased that easily, I just haven’t been given anything coming close to solid evidence that a) we were complacent against Palace and b) there’s an actual causal link that can’t be dismissed as post hoc fallacy between the two games

My bad re Saturday.

I take your point re Palace playing well, but my impression was that we lacked focus. It's only an impression but to me we looked nowhere near as on it as we had against RM, and carried this into the first part of the PSG game. Unlike with Palace we corrected this after 35 in the PSG game, so it's not too far a stretch that (if the Palace gameplan was as similar to PSG's as you suggest) to feel that had we done the same, we would have had a better blueprint for PSG.

When is there ever solid evidence when trying to argue an impression? It's all opinions and conjecture. There's no verifiable evidence that we were complacent against Palace - just a conclusion drawn from the way the game played out and a similarity with this and the first part of the PSG game...

[HCZ_Reborn]

My bad re Saturday.

I take your point re Palace playing well, but my impression was that we lacked focus. It's only an impression but to me we looked nowhere near as on it as we had against RM, and carried this into the first part of the PSG game. Unlike with Palace we corrected this after 35 in the PSG game, so it's not too far a stretch that (if the Palace gameplan was as similar to PSG's as you suggest) to feel that had we done the same, we would have had a better blueprint for PSG.

When is there ever solid evidence when trying to argue an impression? It's all opinions and conjecture. There's no verifiable evidence that we were complacent against Palace - just a conclusion drawn from the way the game played out and a similarity with this and the first part of the PSG game...

I’m sure it was just hyperbole but i felt that Mac (the likeable one, not the one who acts like a 12 year old school prefect) was saying he was objectively right and I said “arguing afterwards, therefore because of” is a post hoc fallacy

The fact is do I know for definite that the palace game had no impact on the PSG game? No. I just don’t think anyone else has any overwhelming evidence that it did.

I just happen to think that there’s far more compelling examples of where one can argue for the importance of Momentum than this particular one.

I respect that after a result like Tuesday people can be a little less reasonable in how they make a point than they might otherwise. I of course am never guilty of this which is exemplified by my level headed and fair minded post match ratings :lol:

So yeah I’m being a hypocrite, it’s something we are all guilty of on here. But it felt a bit like people were saying “it’s all about Momentum and there’s no room for any other possible interpretation”

[Letters]

And also @ Letters, I am also not saying that this 'momentum' (as a shorthand way of referring to the factors mentioned above) is the be all and end all, but I think we can all agree that at this level fine margins are important and Saturday was not good preparation for PSG.
I don't entirely disagree with that. It's always annoying to concede a late equaliser. But it was from an individual mistake, I don't think there's any way you can legislate for that.
I just don't think it's as big a factor as some are supposing. Possible it's not completely irrelevant either.
I just think we lost to a better side. It happens, especially at this level. Even then we had our chances - so did they of course but as you say there are fine margins in football and it could have been a better result on Tuesday, or a worse one. I still think with Partey back in the second leg the tie is not completely dead.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't entirely disagree with that. It's always annoying to concede a late equaliser. But it was from an individual mistake, I don't think there's any way you can legislate for that.
I just don't think it's as big a factor as some are supposing. Possible it's not completely irrelevant either.
I just think we lost to a better side. It happens, especially at this level. Even then we had our chances - so did they of course but as you say there are fine margins in football and it could have been a better result on Tuesday, or a worse one. I still think with Partey back in the second leg the tie is not completely dead.

I think the problem people have is I don’t think they take issue with it being said that PSG were the better side on the night, but the better side overall.

Donnarumma is better than Raya but I don’t think there’s that much in it

Dembele is better than whoever we play up front.

I don’t think Doue nor the Georgian lad are better than Saka or Martinelli

I could go on.


The problem is we played into their hands and didn’t show. Partey was a miss but it shouldn’t have been that big a miss.


Odegaard was horrible, Saka was slow, Rice was embarrassing, Merino is so poor that we all arguing that he’s much better off playing up front rather than his natural position.

Timber let himself down.

That wasn’t acceptable by the standards we’ve set for ourselves. A 105 million pound midfielder shouldn’t be shown up in terms of courage and sleeve rolling by an 18 year old Hale end graduate.

Our Captain shouldn’t be so terrified of even trying anything but the most basic of passes


We had to beat them, we didn’t come close and as far as I’m concerned in the last twenty minutes the players looked satisfied with a 1-0 defeat

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ve seen someone suggest that for the second leg (yes I still think we are fucked and that it’s over, but doesn’t mean you can’t try for a Hail Mary pass) that Odegaard is dropped (that’s not the revelatory opinion, I think everyone bar Arteta seemingly wants this) but to play Saka in the middle and he can play interchangeably with Nwaneri wide right.

I think we should have tried this when Odegaard was injured last year, let alone now

I absolutely would go for this

[Letters]

I remember seeing Owen interviewed and he was saying how after his injuries he never quite trusted his knee again, and that always affected how he played after that.
Could be similar with Odegaard, or he's not properly recovered and has been rushed back due to other injuries. Dunno, but he's definitely not the player he was.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I remember seeing Owen interviewed and he was saying how after his injuries he never quite trusted his knee again, and that always affected how he played after that.
Could be similar with Odegaard, or he's not properly recovered and has been rushed back due to other injuries. Dunno, but he's definitely not the player he was.

The thing is for a few weeks after he came back, playing well I thought…but just around December he faded and he’s never come close to recovering. Which makes me think it’s more psychological than anything.

Needs a couple of sessions with this chap



https://youtu.be/OJ5gAbXOOdQ?si=9mDj3UA2GSBgTyZM

[Niall_Quinn]

I’ve seen someone suggest that for the second leg (yes I still think we are fucked and that it’s over, but doesn’t mean you can’t try for a Hail Mary pass) that Odegaard is dropped (that’s not the revelatory opinion, I think everyone bar Arteta seemingly wants this) but to play Saka in the middle and he can play interchangeably with Nwaneri wide right.

I think we should have tried this when Odegaard was injured last year, let alone now

I absolutely would go for this

Well you'd be wrong because Saka does all his damage when he's wide.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well you'd be wrong because Saka does all his damage when he's wide.

He’s also struggling for pace and actually was far better on Tuesday when he cut into the middle

[Mac76]

I remember seeing Owen interviewed and he was saying how after his injuries he never quite trusted his knee again, and that always affected how he played after that.
Could be similar with Odegaard, or he's not properly recovered and has been rushed back due to other injuries. Dunno, but he's definitely not the player he was.

I'm not sure it's the injury, for me Odegaard's problems lie in his decision making, it's not whether he's running or going into tackles, it's more what he does.with FKs and in the final third - who he passes to etc - that's what seems so off for me

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ve said for ages that Odegaard’s problem is confidence, and whilst with free kicks I’ve never understood why he was the unquestioned free kick taker as he has only ever scored once from a direct fk and that was pretty much at the beginning of his Arsenal career….i think what you rightly point to as his decision making in the final third in terms of passing, decision making is confidence related.
Maybe what used to be second nature to him before his injury is something he struggles with now, that might not be directly related to his injury but it might be indirectly related….overthinks…is worried that he will fluff the perfectly weighted passes that were his trademark.

On top of that I do think he looks worried about getting injured again and is more hesitant when going to try and win possession. But I do agree with you (for once) that the main problem is the over cautious decision making in the final third

[Niall_Quinn]

He’s also struggling for pace and actually was far better on Tuesday when he cut into the middle

He wasn't though - nowhere near as good as he was against Madrid. In fact every time Timber had the ball out wide I kept thinking, that should be Saka. Whatever changes Arteta made there didn't work at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’ve said for ages that Odegaard’s problem is confidence, and whilst with free kicks I’ve never understood why he was the unquestioned free kick taker as he has only ever scored once from a direct fk and that was pretty much at the beginning of his Arsenal career….i think what you rightly point to as his decision making in the final third in terms of passing, decision making is confidence related.
Maybe what used to be second nature to him before his injury is something he struggles with now, that might not be directly related to his injury but it might be indirectly related….overthinks…is worried that he will fluff the perfectly weighted passes that were his trademark.

On top of that I do think he looks worried about getting injured again and is more hesitant when going to try and win possession. But I do agree with you (for once) that the main problem is the over cautious decision making in the final third

I hope that's not the case, about not wanting to be injured again. Or being hesitant. No player wants to be injured, but they play. If he's playing below his level because he's made the decision to play below his level, he needs to move to a team at his level and free up the space in our team for somebody to come in and play at the required level. Imagine if we'd have stuck with Sterling no matter what, just because he had a big rep? It could have prevented players like MLS or Ethan coming through. Can't carry anyone when you are climbing for the peak.

[Mac76]

I think in general part of Odegaard's problem is he plays pretty much every game and that's ofc down to Arteta in that he's never tried to come up with a plan B for when he needs resting (because only recently has Arteta realised that players need resting) and you could see when Ode was injured, while we came up with a sticking plaster solution and got away with it for a game or two, other managers then worked it out (because that's part of what managers do and why they make a difference) and we really struggled.

[Mac76]

I hope that's not the case, about not wanting to be injured again. Or being hesitant. No player wants to be injured, but they play. If he's playing below his level because he's made the decision to play below his level, he needs to move to a team at his level and free up the space in our team for somebody to come in and play at the required level. Imagine if we'd have stuck with Sterling no matter what, just because he had a big rep? It could have prevented players like MLS or Ethan coming through. Can't carry anyone when you are climbing for the peak.

Well, it's not so much about moving to another team as it's being given time out of the team to think about his game and watch from the sidelines

While we still have the CL to go for, I'm looking beyond that to this summer when hopefully the players get some time off (notwithstanding pre-season tours in Singapore etc) to just chill and come back refreshed

[HCZ_Reborn]

He wasn't though - nowhere near as good as he was against Madrid. In fact every time Timber had the ball out wide I kept thinking, that should be Saka. Whatever changes Arteta made there didn't work at all.

Saka drifted into the middle of his own accord because he was sluggish and wasn’t ever able to beat Nuno Mendes in a foot race. Saka at his best is of course best deployed on the wing, but he’s not at his best…no where near it….and whilst flogging a dead horse might be fun for petty sadists, it’s ultimately a waste of time.

Odegaard needs to be dropped completely because we are flogging a dead horse by playing him

Nwaneri is not as good as Saka on the wing when Saka is on his best form, but I think he’s got more natural acceleration than him at this moment in time.