Would you Swap?

[Letters]

Would you trade Spurs' season for our?
It's a big nope from me. OK, they landed a trophy. But not all trophies are created equal. It's a second rate trophy for a second rate club. Maybe that's sour grapes but it is also accurate. They won a trophy which Arsenal are too good to compete in - any of the Champions League semi-finalists would have won it easily.
It's like finishing top of the remedial class. Well done and everything, but don't strut around pretending you're top of the school.
Their league season was a car crash. 22 defeats. 38 points in 38 games, they finished as low as it's possible to without actually going down.
So, overall, no thanks. I'm disappointed with 2nd place and the Champions League semi-final, I think we all are. But the fact we're disappointed with that and Spurs fans are doing cartwheels about the Carabao Cup of Europe tells you something about the respective levels of the clubs. Overall we are in a far better position. It's clear where our issues are - we don't have enough firepower. We didn't have anyone get in to double figures in terms of league goals. That's clearly not good enough. Address that in the summer and we'll be up there again next season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's not even worth thinking about in my mind.

You finish 17th and you deserve to be thought of as relegation candidates next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No fucking way

Yes they are in the champions league next season but they look hilariously ill equipped to deal with it

They’ve got a coach who is seemingly in denial about how bad things are for them.

I’d have liked to win the Europa League back in 2019, but even if we had it wouldn’t have lasted long in the memory

The amount of games they’ve lost. Humiliated at home yesterday by Brighton…how can you just brush that off?

[Ollie the Optimist]

If Spurs had finished in top four (well 5 now) and qualified for champions league that way and won europa, then yes I think there is an argument to be made about trading seasons.

However they lost 22 games, didn’t make 40 points and only won 11 games. Imagine watching that all season and now trying to claim you’ve had a better season than arsenal.

And lets not forget, no champions league club dropped into europa league this year unlike previous ones so an even weaker version of the trophy than before

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I am sorry, but you are all in denial.

Yes, no one would want to lose and be laughed at as many times as the Spuds have been this season and obviously if they don't perform miracles this summer, things will only get worse for them.

But there are only two trophies better than the trophy they won and the imaginary second place trophy isn't one of them.

By their extremely low standards, this season has been a success and they've got themselves in the CL, that was their sole target all along, get yourself in the CL so we can pay for this shiny stadium.... they did that and ended up with an actual trophy that is better than anything they've won in a generation. This is a fact that will be remembered in the history books. The only English team that has the right to look down on them is Liverpool, as they won something superior.

By our much improved standards, we royally messed things up on the higher up trophies which were at the most attainable they've been (for us) since the days of the Invincibles. TBH little changes that narrative and most of the sporting world agrees.


Sidenote, I still think Levy will pull a fast one and sack Ange BTW.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The question is would you swap it, not whether Tottenham consider their season a success.

Imagine if we finished 17th and what the mood would be.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The question is would you swap it, not whether Tottenham consider their season a success.

Imagine if we finished 17th and what the mood would be.

Why ask the question in the first place, if it's not an attempt to make yourself feel better by trying belittle their achievement?

Let's flip the question, if you were a Spurs fan, an actual Spud, would you really trade coming second and a semi final in the CL for a UEFA cup trophy where you beat Man U to end a trophy drought and qualify for the CL.....seriously would you???!!!

Add that to the fact that the team you despise the most would end up not winning anything this season as usual, especially when it looked in the cards like they were going to take the biggest trophy in club football and make this a truly miserable summer for you?

Let's be realistic , no Spud would trade this season with us either.

We all know what is fuelling this question, let's recognise it for what it is and move on.

[Letters]

I am sorry, but you are all in denial.
People disagreeing with you doesn't make them deluded.


But there are only two trophies better than the trophy they won
Is that true? It's certainly true that not all trophies are of equal value. But it's also true that the prestige of trophies varies over time.
The rise of the CL has devalued the FA Cup, for example. I still love the FA Cup but there's no doubt that FA Cup Final Day is less of a "thing" than it was when I was a kid. As for the Europa League - the issue with it is, again, the rise of the CL. So many sides qualify for the CL now and this season with teams not dropping from there into the Europa League (which I don't think they should anyway), there's no doubt the quality of the teams in that competition is much lower than the CL.
I reckon any of the CL semi-finalists would have easily won it. It's a second rate trophy for second rate teams. You can only compete in the competitions you're in of course but they won a competition we are too good to play in.


By their extremely low standards, this season has been a success
Yes. By their standards. But we have much higher standards and that's why I wouldn't swap. Can you imagine being a season ticket holder this season and seeing your team only winning 6 out of home games? Overall they lost 22 games, I heard it's the most anyone has ever lost and not gone down. They got 38 points which in many seasons would relegate you.

For us this has been a poor season but that in itself tells you that we are at a much higher level than them. We finished 2nd and got the CL semi-final and we are disappointed. Spurs finished 17th and they're doing cartwheels because they won a trophy by beating the Norwegian champions (lol) and then they just about snuck past the worst Utd side in a generation. They can have their moment but there's no way as a whole I'd swap with them. If you would then OK, we agree to disagree.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why ask the question in the first place, if it's not an attempt to make yourself feel better by trying belittle their achievement?

Let's flip the question, if you were a Spurs fan, an actual Spud, would you really trade coming second and a semi final in the CL for a UEFA cup trophy where you beat Man U to end a trophy drought and qualify for the CL.....seriously would you???!!!

Add that to the fact that the team you despise the most would end up not winning anything this season as usual, especially when it looked in the cards like they were going to take the biggest trophy in club football and make this a truly miserable summer for you?

Let's be realistic , no Spud would trade this season with us either.

We all know what is fuelling this question, let's recognise it for what it is and move on.

Why would you flip it? We're Arsenal fans, it's our perspective that only matters in this scenario.

The actual question doesn't 'belittle' it - although they do that themselves by finishing 17th, it's asking whether you'd trade our season for it.

It's interesting that you won't actually answer it.

Don't project on to me that trophies and only trophies matter - I want them, god knows I wanted us to be professional ahead of the Champions League but I'm not so desperate to junk everything else in favour of it.

For me no I wouldn't swap it in that scenario because I don't know I believe in putting yourselves in positions to achieve great things.

Funnily enough I think we're better placed for that Tottenham - is that outlandish to think?

[Letters]

Let's be realistic , no Spud would trade this season with us either.

Of course. They hadn't won a trophy in 17 years. They'll take anything they can get.
But as we seem to agree, Arsenal and Spurs are clubs at very different levels so have fanbases with very different expectation levels.
They may well regard their season as a success, that doesn't mean I'd regard it as a success if we'd had their season.
We've finished 2nd and people have spent all season moaning. Can you imagine the level of discussion on here had we won 6 home games all season and lost 22 overall?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It would be "papering over the cracks" every post.

[Letters]

If it helps, 21, my local club are Enfield Town. We went up last season and spent most of this stinking up the place - we weren't coping with the higher level.
We stayed up on the last day (despite losing that one to a side chasing the title) because other results went our way.
So, for me, it was a fairly successful season - half way through I thought we were dead and buried but a decent run in the second half of the season saw us stay up by the skin of our teeth.
That doesn't mean I'd regard that sort of a season a success if Arsenal did it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Why would you flip it? We're Arsenal fans, it's our perspective that only matters in this scenario.

The actual question doesn't 'belittle' it - although they do that themselves by finishing 17th, it's asking whether you'd trade our season for it.

It's interesting that you won't actually answer it.

Don't project on to me that trophies and only trophies matter - I want them, god knows I wanted us to be professional ahead of the Champions League but I'm not so desperate to junk everything else in favour of it.

For me no I wouldn't swap it in that scenario because I don't know I believe in putting yourselves in positions to achieve great things.

Funnily enough I think we're better placed for that Tottenham - is that outlandish to think?

So what's the point of the comparison if we can't flip it? If they don't want to be us, or envy us, and we don't want to be them....what are we debating then?

Simply put, if you want me to focus on us soley, we had aims to win particular competitions and we ended up with none. Securing a CL place was not our objective this season. I doubt you'd be able to say that achieving a semi final place in the CL was either. In general, when I look at our football it has regressed....so what exactly am I celebrating?

Oh yeah, I am better than the Spuds, at least the league table says that in unmistakable terms. However they equalled my achievements in the LC, bettered me in the FA Cup and ended up with a trophy that I have been to the finals/semi finals like 3/4 times or so in the last 30 years and still never won......but yeah I'm better.

My point is the need to make this comparison can only come from a place of dejection and that is what matters to me as an Arsenal fan and what I should be worried about. Everything else is irrelevant to me.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

My reading of this question being asked is because it's being said, it's out there being spoken already, that they've had a better season.

It's being asked by Tottenham fans about us so I don't think it's reasonable to say the question itself belittles.

You're flipping it but still not answering it yourself. You have still not said if you would swap it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Of course. They hadn't won a trophy in 17 years. They'll take anything they can get.
But as we seem to agree, Arsenal and Spurs are clubs at very different levels so have fanbases with very different expectation levels.
They may well regard their season as a success, that doesn't mean I'd regard it as a success if we'd had their season.
We've finished 2nd and people have spent all season moaning. Can you imagine the level of discussion on here had we won 6 home games all season and lost 22 overall?

The thing is Letters, every single time we've won a trophy in the last few years, the Spuds finished above us and I believe were in the CL.

At no point would I have swapped our FA cup for their "achievements" or seasons. But something tells me if you had asked a Spud fan the question in both those seasons, they would have swapped.

Like I said, I'd prefer we didn't feel the need to debate this. We as fans know that form is temporary in football, but trophies are forever. That's why they matter. When you don't win one, it's best not to compare yourselves to others that do IMO.

And to finally answer your question, my initial response was a 'hell no", mainly because the EL can't satisfy my hunger anymore....however the longer I spend typing these responses to you guys, the more I'm wavering and realising how bad we've had it for a while with these expectations that never get met.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My reading of this question being asked is because it's being said, it's out there being spoken already, that they've had a better season.

It's being asked by Tottenham fans about us so I don't think it's reasonable to say the question itself belittles.

You're flipping it but still not answering it yourself. You have still not said if you would swap it.

I saw something from O'Hara on skyports earlier, but immediately dismissed it.

But the more I'm forced to debate this with you guys, the more I'm beginning to see his point....especially as the trophy they won allows them to equal our only tangible "achievement" this season, which is making the CL.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We start from an equal base and quality of player then, interesting.

[Letters]

The thing is Letters, every single time we've won a trophy in the last few years, the Spuds finished above us and I believe were in the CL.

At no point would I have swapped our FA cup for their "achievements" or seasons. But something tells me if you had asked a Spud fan the question in both those seasons, they would have swapped.
Spurs may have finished above us those seasons when we won the FA Cup but we were never that low.
If Spurs had finished, say, top 6 and won the Europa League this year then that's a pretty decent season.
But they damn near went down. I mean, they weren't that close because the bottom 3 were absolutely bloody awful this season. But they've been just about as you can be without actually getting relegated. I believe they're the first PL side to lose 22 times and not get relegated. Watching that all season must have been bloody awful. And it tells you a lot more about where they are as a club than the Europa win.

Now of course the Europa League win is a massive silver lining. And sure, trophies are forever but we all know the context.
Alan Wells will go down as history as the 100m Olympic Champion in 1980. But anyone knows a bit of Olympic history knows that was the year it was in Moscow and a load of countries boycotted, including the US. Wells won it with a time 2 tenths of a second worse than the previous Olympic winner, in 100m terms that's quite a lot. Would he have won it had all the countries been competing? It seems doubtful.

Spurs won a competition which the best 30 odd teams in Europe couldn't compete in. It was the first season CL sides haven't dropped in to it. It tells you something about the quality of the teams in the competition that the final was between 2 of the worst PL sides to stay up this year. I'd never heard of the side they played in the semi-final, I had heard of Frankfurt and they did finish 3rd in the Bundesliga but a very distant 3rd. They only won half their games. It hardly the cream of European football, is it?
You can only play what's put in front of you of course but any Spurs fan with a modicum of self awareness would understand the context.

As I said their league position tell you more about where they are as a club. And that's why I wouldn't swap. We finished 2nd, we got to the CL semi-final. None of that wins you a trophy but it tells you that we are in a much better position than Spurs to challenge for major honours IF we address the obvious issue up front.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's clear you are pretty convinced on your position, so I won't belabour this much. But I'll try and point out a few things .

First of all, this is not the first season clubs that participate in the CL proper won't be in the UEFA cup. Teams dropping from the CL group stages into the UEFA cup I believe only started in the first season we got to the final, year 2000 against Galatasaray.

Even before then , the UEFA cup was still seen as prestigious....so I think it would be unfair to say that its totally gone to crap when it's just reverted to the way it was before till everyone got CL fever.

Also, lets not over flog this league position, as whether you like it or not it is just one of the competitions we compete in and we did not even win it. Now IIRC you were one of the many who stated it wasn't important where at the top we ended if there was a chance we could win the CL when you guys were ok with "sacrificing" our games in the league if it meant we'd be fresh enough to get to the CL final.

It now looks like you are trying to have it both ways by repeatedly pointing out how far better we did than them in the league, when all that matters is we didn't win it but we still managed to qualify for the CL.... which surprise surprise, is exactly what the Spuds have achieved too. They also achieved this while equalling and bettering our record in all other competitions we were both in.

Now, I've never hidden my main priority and dream is the league. I rate winning the league over everything which includes the CL, and it's not going to change till we win it again. The main reason I wanted to finish 2nd was to ensure that we've got a springboard to actually win it, despite the fact this is the 2nd time in a row we are failing to build on that supposed springboard.

However, as bad as 17th might sound, Spurs are still in the race for the title next season, whether anyone likes it or not. Statistically they won't even be the first team to almost get relegated one season and win the league the next, as Leicester only finished 6 points ahead of the relegation places before winning the league the next season. Also the same year Leicester won, Chelsea finished 10th in the table (worst league position as at then under Abramovich) and went on to win the league the very next season.

So one poor league season is not enough to say unequivocally that Tottenham won't be finishing higher than us next season, no matter how badly we want to believe this is true. (BTW, I personally don't believe so, but I also thought we'd win something this season so WTF do I know)

So once again, I say to you, insisting our season was better than theirs is not a straightforward yes or no question and IMO it best we don't debate it, at least for our sanity.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Spurs will be in the race for the title next season?

In the same way Sunderland and Burnley will be sure (it being hypothetically possible)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I just thought of another comparison....if you had to choose between having Newcastle's season or Tottenham's season (it has to be one of them), which would you guys take?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Spurs will be in the race for the title next season?

In the same way Sunderland and Burnley will be sure (it being hypothetically possible)

HCZ...one would think you'd think twice with the way you vehemently dismissed Liverpool's chances for most of this season.....oh well.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I just thought of another comparison....if you had to choose between having Newcastle's season or Tottenham's season (it has to be one of them), which would you guys take?

Newcastle’s season.

Frankly I’d take Palace’s season over Spurs. Spurs are not equipped to be in the champions league…they need to fix what went wrong that landed them in 17th. A Europa league trophy where the toughest team they beat was Eintracht Frankfurt doesn’t gloss over the trouble they are in

[Letters]

HCZ...one would think you'd think twice with the way you vehemently dismissed Liverpool's chances for most of this season.....oh well.
The difference is last season when we went close Liverpool were also challenging until about the last 6 games. Spurs did finish 5th that season but they were miles away from the top 3.
They are absolutely nowhere near challenging

Edit - so while I also underestimated Liverpool this season, they were far more credible contenders than Spurs

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ...one would think you'd think twice with the way you vehemently dismissed Liverpool's chances for most of this season.....oh well.

Seriously are you kidding me?

First off Liverpool finished two points better than they did the previous season.

Second, to be honest with you…I don’t think you seriously believe they’ll challenge for the title. If United had won that final would you be suggesting they might be challenging for the title?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Newcastle’s season.

Frankly I’d take Palace’s season over Spurs. Spurs are not equipped to be in the champions league…they need to fix what went wrong that landed them in 17th. A Europa league trophy where the toughest team they beat was Eintracht Frankfurt doesn’t gloss over the trouble they are in

Well I'd definitely take Spurs over both Palace and Newcastle...as they've got the bigger shinier cup and the CL spot to brag about.

BTW the original question has to do with swapping achievements rather than teams....so I'm not sure why you guys are making it about the personnel they currently have. If I've misread the question, then my bad.

But to be clear I'd rather have a poor league season where I win loads of trophies than another meaningless 2nd place finish for the 3rd year in a row...a bit like Liverpool's "pauper" treble under Benitez.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Seriously are you kidding me?

First off Liverpool finished two points better than they did the previous season.

Second, to be honest with you…I don’t think you seriously believe they’ll challenge for the title. If United had won that final would you be suggesting they might be challenging for the title?

I think I made my opinion clear that I don't think they'd win the title....I also made it clear that my opinion on that means F all since I've had us as favourites for the past few years.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think I made my opinion clear that I don't think they'd win the title....I also made it clear that my opinion on that means F all since I've had us as favourites for the past few years.

I said challenging for, not winning it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well I'd definitely take Spurs over both Palace and Newcastle...as they've got the bigger shinier cup and the CL spot to brag about.

BTW the original question has to do with swapping achievements rather than teams....so I'm not sure why you guys are making it about the personnel they currently have. If I've misread the question, then my bad.

But to be clear I'd rather have a poor league season where I win loads of trophies than another meaningless 2nd place finish for the 3rd year in a row...a bit like Liverpool's "pauper" treble under Benitez.

Yes I know you would, that’s why you seem to think the way Chelsea was run even under Abramovich

I want consistency not a complete chaotic car crash that one piece of silverware is meant to make up for

It was bad enough for me that we lost two home games in the league this season, let alone the multi car pile up that was spurs at home this season (fuck me they lost to Leicester and Ipswich)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yes I know you would, that’s why you seem to think the way Chelsea was run even under Abramovich

I want consistency not a complete chaotic car crash that one piece of silverware is meant to make up for

It was bad enough for me that we lost two home games in the league this season, let alone the multi car pile up that was spurs at home this season (fuck me they lost to Leicester and Ipswich)

Like I said earlier, form is temporary, trophies are forever.

If your idea of 'consistency' is that you'll boast to your grandkids (and this is hypothetical as you've expressed your view on kids clearly) that Arsenal had some of the best players and best teams continually coming second every year but this was seen as an achievement...then that's fine.

When they grow up, and their friends are pointing out trophies their respective clubs have won, they'll come to the sad realisation that granddad was just full of bullshit, like we all eventually do :)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Like I said earlier, form is temporary, trophies are forever.

If your idea of 'consistency' is that you'll boast to your grandkids (and this is hypothetical as you've expressed your view on kids clearly) that Arsenal had some of the best players and best teams continually coming second every year but this was seen as an achievement...then that's fine.

When they grow up, and their friends are pointing out trophies their respective clubs have won, they'll come to the sad realisation that granddad was just full of bullshit, like we all eventually do :)

Strange analogy, especially one where you'd be happy for us to lose to everyone in the league for the benefit of a second rate trophy

I wouldn’t mind if we were talking about a champions league trophy, despite finishing 5th and 6th.

And the thing you’d tell to your grandkids is that Chelsea were a mediocre club that became a plaything for a Russian billionaire and unlike City couldn’t even build sustained success with their financial doping.


I also wouldn’t want to be taking the proverbial grandkids to watch them get smashed by Brighton at home, and say whats important is we won our first trophy in 17 years even though we probably won’t win another one for just as long.

[Marc Overmars]

No I wouldn’t swap seasons. I’d be absolutely livid if we ever had a league campaign like they’ve had. The league represents where a team is at and I reckon if they keep Ange they will continue to struggle because he has proven incapable of demonstrating some consistency at this level. 34 defeats across 2 seasons is pretty grim.

Obviously the Europa League represents huge success for a club like Spurs and I fully understand why they wouldn’t swap seasons with us either and are shamelessly celebrating like the league never happened. There’s levels to this though, we don’t compete in that competition and if we ever did find ourselves in that competition again I’d wager Arteta would be facing the sack. There’s also a reason why United were planning muted celebrations if they won it and that’s because no one would have turned up to a parade for this trophy off the back of an all time disgrace of a PL season. Expectations are completely different.

I’ve been saying this all week, just let them have their moment. Am I envious of their fans celebrations? Sure, just like I am with Liverpool, Newcastle and even Palace. I agree winning trophies are the things you remember most however you remember some more fondly than others. I just can’t fathom having a league season like they’ve had and thinking everything is great because we beat Alkmaar, Frankfurt, Bodo and United.

[Letters]

Well I'd definitely take Spurs over both Palace and Newcastle...as they've got the bigger shinier cup and the CL spot to brag about.
Is it bigger and shinier? I dunno. It's a European Trophy, but it's been massively devalued by the rise of the Champions League. The FA Cup has too but at least if you win that you have all the clubs in the England leagues playing. Palace had to beat Man City in the final and as poor as the latter's season has been this year, it was still and impressive backs to the wall performance and win. The Europa League - so many clubs now qualify for the CL that the quality is pretty poor in that competition. MO has listed some of the teams they played. It's hardly the cream of Europe is it? History may not remember that, but in there here and now, obviously for a club at that level it's a good win. But any of the CL semi-finalists would have won it easily.

The Carabao Cup I honestly couldn't give a shit about. The FA Cup has been devalued but it's still something I'd like us to win. The Europa League is honestly beneath us and that's why I wouldn't swap if it came with finishing 17th. That implies a complete mess of a club and if they want to mix it with Europe's elite next season they have a lot of work to do.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Is it bigger and shinier? I dunno. It's a European Trophy, but it's been massively devalued by the rise of the Champions League. The FA Cup has too but at least if you win that you have all the clubs in the England leagues playing. Palace had to beat Man City in the final and as poor as the latter's season has been this year, it was still and impressive backs to the wall performance and win. The Europa League - so many clubs now qualify for the CL that the quality is pretty poor in that competition. MO has listed some of the teams they played. It's hardly the cream of Europe is it? History may not remember that, but in there here and now, obviously for a club at that level it's a good win. But any of the CL semi-finalists would have won it easily.

The Carabao Cup I honestly couldn't give a shit about. The FA Cup has been devalued but it's still something I'd like us to win. The Europa League is honestly beneath us and that's why I wouldn't swap if it came with finishing 17th. That implies a complete mess of a club and if they want to mix it with Europe's elite next season they have a lot of work to do.

Fair enough.

All I can say is that I definitely expect us to have a league season just as bad (and maybe worse) than Spurs in our lifetime. If that season occurs and their is a UEFA cup (or whatever it may be called then) that ensures I am back in the summit with the big boys and end up with silverware, I'm pretty sure I will look back at it fondly ....and thats more than I can say for the past three seasons where we've won nothing.

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fair enough.

All I can say is that I definitely expect us to have a league season just as bad (and maybe worse) than Spurs in our lifetime. If that season occurs and their is a UEFA cup (or whatever it may be called then) that ensures I am back in the summit with the big boys and end up with silverware, I'm pretty sure I will look back at it fondly ....and thats more than I can say for the past three seasons where we've won nothing.

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).

We finished 5th and 8th and that was bad enough

And you’re right the Europa league was seen as a way back into the champions league rather than a trophy of merit in of itself

[Letters]

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).
Yeah. The club wasn't in a particularly good shape then though. At the time of course we'd have all taken it.
Now...well obviously if you're in a competition then you want to win it. But at the expense of finishing 17th? That implies there's an awful lot of work to do in order to challenge the big boys. Overall I think there's just far too much European football. Too many teams qualify for the CL - that automatically makes the Europa lower quality and thus devalues it. I am partly saying that out of bitterness but it is also true.
But I do think Spurs win maybe adds a bit of pressure on Arteta on the club to deliver a big trophy. We've been close, but we need to get over the line next year.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

But I do think Spurs win maybe adds a bit of pressure on Arteta on the club to deliver a big trophy. We've been close, but we need to get over the line next year.

I really hope this part ends up being true next season.

[Chippy]

Would you trade Spurs' season for our?
It's a big nope from me. OK, they landed a trophy. But not all trophies are created equal. It's a second rate trophy for a second rate club. Maybe that's sour grapes but it is also accurate. They won a trophy which Arsenal are too good to compete in - any of the Champions League semi-finalists would have won it easily.
It's like finishing top of the remedial class. Well done and everything, but don't strut around pretending you're top of the school.
Their league season was a car crash. 22 defeats. 38 points in 38 games, they finished as low as it's possible to without actually going down.
So, overall, no thanks. I'm disappointed with 2nd place and the Champions League semi-final, I think we all are. But the fact we're disappointed with that and Spurs fans are doing cartwheels about the Carabao Cup of Europe tells you something about the respective levels of the clubs. Overall we are in a far better position. It's clear where our issues are - we don't have enough firepower. We didn't have anyone get in to double figures in terms of league goals. That's clearly not good enough. Address that in the summer and we'll be up there again next season.

NO CHANCE!

Some of the office Spuds that I have spoken to are seriously worried about their campaign next season, especailly if Ange stays.

Now that the dust has settled, even they realise that this was a second rate cup and their season could be very difficult next year.

[Chippy]

I am sorry, but you are all in denial.

Yes, no one would want to lose and be laughed at as many times as the Spuds have been this season and obviously if they don't perform miracles this summer, things will only get worse for them.

But there are only two trophies better than the trophy they won and the imaginary second place trophy isn't one of them.

By their extremely low standards, this season has been a success and they've got themselves in the CL, that was their sole target all along, get yourself in the CL so we can pay for this shiny stadium.... they did that and ended up with an actual trophy that is better than anything they've won in a generation. This is a fact that will be remembered in the history books. The only English team that has the right to look down on them is Liverpool, as they won something superior.

By our much improved standards, we royally messed things up on the higher up trophies which were at the most attainable they've been (for us) since the days of the Invincibles. TBH little changes that narrative and most of the sporting world agrees.


Sidenote, I still think Levy will pull a fast one and sack Ange BTW.

I am afraid that it is you in denial my friend. Can you imagine having seen your club lose 20 matches and be embarassed at home by Ipswich, Leicester and Brighton......and humiliated by Liverpool 2-6.

[Letters]

They had this debate on AFTV - which I generally avoid but I saw a clip on FB.
Robbie says he would swap league seasons if we’d won the CL.
But not for the Europa.
I’d probably go along with that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They had this debate on AFTV - which I generally avoid but I saw a clip on FB.
Robbie says he would swap league seasons if we’d won the CL.
But not for the Europa.
I’d probably go along with that.

Yep

[Letters]

While we are here, when did all this “Champions of Europe” bollox start?
No one calls the Carabao or FA Cup winners “Champions of England”.
They’re just the winners of that competition.

[HCZ_Reborn]

While we are here, when did all this “Champions of Europe” bollox start?.

Near as I can tell about 22:00 GMT on the 21st May 2025

[Mac76]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1268310998291758&id=100053386088930

Fucking stupid question btw

Ofc not

[Niall_Quinn]

Only club that could possibly answer yes to that question is Utd. The spuds, even by their own low standards, embarrassed themselves. They "won" some trophy competed by the dregs of the dregs of Europe that couldn't even make it into the all-comers CL. You can't judge anything by the Euro competitions anymore because they are pure commercial atrocities that have nothing to do with football. You judge it by the league - isn't that what has ALWAYS been said? If we judge our season as a loss because we finished second, then the spuds can judge theirs accordingly, down there in the relegation zone. Unless somebody is going to suggest we wouldn't have walked that shitty Europa Cornflakes Racket - seriously? Our Academy kids would have won that.

[Letters]

I honestly think any of the quarter finalists of the CL would have won the Europa League easily. Or at least it would have been a shock if they hadn’t.
Frankfurt? :lol:
Some Norwegian lot I’d never heard of :lol:
The worst Utd side in generations :lol:

Spurs didn’t exactly sweep aside the cream of Europe.

Champions of Europe :haha:
Yeah, only once you take out all the best sides.