Pre-Season 2025/2026 thread

[HCZ_Reborn]

Our first pre season friendly against AC Milan kicks off in just over half an hour

Team is mainly first team players with Zinchenko (going to be hard to shift on his wages) also starting


Norgaard starts as does Nwaneri in the no10 role (a role I think he’s better suited to than on the wing, not that he’s not good on the wing but he likes to cut inside a lot)


Zubimendi on the bench

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

From Sky:

Arsenal team news
Team to play AC Milan: Raya, White, Saliba, Calafiori, Zinchenko, Norgaard, Rice, Nwaneri, Saka, Martinelli, Havertz.

Subs: Kepa, Setford, Rojas-Fedoruschenko, Nichols, Kiwior, Salmon, Lewis-Skelly, Zubimendi, Lokonga, Copley, Merino, Dowman, Odegaard, Kabia, Nelson, Trossard, Harriman-Annous.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

From Sky:

AC Milan team news
AC Milan: P Terracciano, Tomori, Thiaw, Pavlovic, Bartesaghi, Ricci, Loftus-Cheek, Musah, Saelemaekers, Leao, Pulisic.

Subs: Pittarella, Torriani, F Terracciano, Okafor, Chukwueze, Colombo, Comotto, Dutu, Bondo, Gabbia, Magni, Liberali.

[HCZ_Reborn]

From Sky:

Arsenal team news
Team to play AC Milan: Raya, White, Saliba, Calafiori, Zinchenko, Norgaard, Rice, Nwaneri, Saka, Martinelli, Havertz.

Subs: Kepa, Setford, Rojas-Fedoruschenko, Nichols, Kiwior, Salmon, Lewis-Skelly, Zubimendi, Lokonga, Copley, Merino, Dowman, Odegaard, Kabia, Nelson, Trossard, Harriman-Annous.

Dowman coming off the bench should be interesting

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Hope Dowman comes on for a bit, though Nwaneri won't be too pleased if he needs to give way for a 15yr old :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Looking at our lineup I suspect Arteta might be doing his 3 at the back thing again, with Zinchenko playing in the middle and likely going to suffocate Nwaneri.

Well can't complain, pre-season is for experimenting.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Looking at our lineup I suspect Arteta might be doing his 3 at the back thing again, with Zinchenko playing in the middle and likely going to suffocate Nwaneri.

Well can't complain, pre-season is for experimenting.

That or he’s trying to interest people in signing Zinchenko, not entirely convinced watching him play will be the best way to achieve that :lol:

I think more than likely he will go out on loan (as possibly Jesus will do when he comes back to full fitness - if he comes back to full fitness)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seems very similar pattern to last season, lots of possession in their territory but they are able to get back and snuff out danger. And Norgaard looking like he could expose for pace a lot

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I agree not much has changed.

Everything good we are trying to do is coming from the right and with Havertz leading the line there is obviously little being made from half chances.

Caliafiori looks a natural covering for Gabriel so far.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Great piece of skill from Nwaneri.....we really need to get this boy to sign ASAP.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yunus Musah is having a really good game trying to be every where to frustrate us

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We should be 2 up by now, but Rice, Saka and White haven't shown sharpness yet.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Still don't get playing Zinchenko - if we cant sell him then rip up is contract ffs.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A decent half.

Milan have largely played like 80% of the teams we'll face in the EPL will, which is sit deep and counter.

Our best chances have come from mistakes they've made and individual brilliant pieces of skill (which only Nwaneri has shown).

Hopefully in the next half we see a different crop of players with different ideas.

Also, the Caliafiori and Saliba partnership has been ok so far.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Still don't get playing Zinchenko - if we cant sell him then rip up is contract ffs.

It makes sense. Most of the teams interested in him are in the Serie A.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

More of the first team coming on:

Trossard
MLS
Odegaard
Zubimendi
Kiwior
Kepa

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Some pathetic defending by MLS and Kiwior...but luckily for them Saliba saved the day

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Martinelli comes off and we score from a move from the left.

Well done Kiwior.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mannnnn I really feel like a granddad watching the babyfaces of Dowman and his buddy about to come on :lol:

[dazthegooner]

Odegaad with his usual freekick into the wall then a miss into the side netting

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Dowman is a born natural...he's honestly a kid that is a bit of a chameleon with so many attributes of some real talents like Kaka, Odegaard and now I''m seeing Hleb!

He just needs grow a bit and get some upper body strength, while staying away from injuries...he's got a real bright future.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW this 15yr old keeper of Milan's is going to be something really special.

EDIT: He's 19, looks pretty babyfaced though.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It makes sense. Most of the teams interested in him are in the Serie A.

So where are the offers then?

If they were that interested he would have been gone by now.

Playing him might actually put them off :shrug:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So where are the offers then?

If they were that interested he would have been gone by now.

Playing him might actually put them off :shrug:

:lol:.....to think I thought Mac was his biggest critic.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Kepa is keeping up with this Milan freak...quite impressive.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Dowman finally scores after their keeper saved 2 in a row

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Josh Nichols scores...quite impressive seeing what he's up against.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well Milan won the shootout...but that was expected with the kind of Keeper they've got.

Pretty impressed as a whole with the resolve of the kids.

[HCZ_Reborn]

For the life of me I really don’t understand why we have these mandatory pel shootouts after pre-season games, pels are a stalemate breaker, we won the game in normal time

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

For the life of me I really don’t understand why we have these mandatory pel shootouts after pre-season games, pels are a stalemate breaker, we won the game in normal time

It's just seen as practice, I guess it can't hurt to have a shootout in a stadium in front of a crowd. Even if it doesn't matter.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s not so much that I object to it, I just don’t really see the point.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

For a friendly? In Singapore?

Keep the fans in there for as long as possible for a game you can pretend matters for as long as possible :lol:

Utterly pointless.

[HCZ_Reborn]

For a friendly? In Singapore?

Keep the fans in there for as long as possible for a game you can pretend matters for as long as possible :lol:

Utterly pointless.

Bit cruel in such conditions, one hopes the stadiums are at least air conditioned :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The fans over there actually enjoyed it and TBF it was pretty entertaining thanks to both keepers.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Some changes from Wednesday

Merino and Zubimendi in for Norgaard and Rice (reprising their partnership from Real Sociedad)

I didn’t realise that Gabriel still not fit so Calafiori playing at Left sided centre half, Lewis-Skelly in for Zinchenko and Trossard for Martinelli

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not bothering to mark properly and Elanga gives Newcastle the lead

Newcastle an example of a team we will continue to struggle against next season I fear.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Newcastle looking more likely to score, able to hit us on the counter attack. Tonali tamely shoots at Raya

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/nufc360/status/1949437721895743580?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

The goal is fucking abysmal, there’s plenty of players in position to intercept

[HCZ_Reborn]

Very quick turnaround

Excellent ball from Trossard (who has been best player on the pitch for us today) into Merino who might be a useless midfielder but is still a useful goalscorer. 1-1

And now Jacob Murphy has put the ball into his own net

[HCZ_Reborn]

Whoops wrong Murphy, it was Alex Murphy. No relation :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Merino is just a striker really.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Merino is just a striker really.

Arguably him and Havertz are playing off each other

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Raya was all over the place, he's off for Kepa now.

Martinelli and Dowman on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Joelinton has given Dowman a bloody nose already.

[Mac76]

The fans over there actually enjoyed it and TBF it was pretty entertaining thanks to both keepers.

The pels are essentially for the team to practice them in match conditions, quite a good idea IMO, from what I hear we propose it for every game but some of the other teams said no, can't remember what Newcastle said but them or Spuds said no I think

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Marking from us in this game, well I’d say it was poor, but it’s not poor…it’s non existent

[HCZ_Reborn]

If Dowman was a year older I’d genuinely say we don’t need to sign an attacking midfielder

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How is Max Dowman 15? He's outrageous.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

3-2 Odegaard.

[Mac76]

3-2 Odegaard - decent pel but I still don't like those silly runups

[Mac76]

btw there's no way that pel is given in the PL, not that way around anyway

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good save Kepa.

[Mac76]

Zin leaving his man completely unmarked as usual, Kepa saves

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Merino is just a striker really.

He found his calling late in life....his youth coaches really deserve a slap for not seeing this.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He found his calling late in life....his youth coaches really deserve a slap for not seeing this.

Yeah his finishing is brilliant, honestly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So apparently Dowman can play at the start of the season (the rules seem to be that he would have to be 15 by the time squad registration deadline on August 31st and turn 16 at some point during the season)

I have to say, yes it would be nice to have more left sided options. But this lad is good enough to be in the squad and contribute to the team now

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well, my stream was pretty unstable today so I missed half of the first half(our 2 goals) and a patches of the 2nd half.

A pretty tough test and in all I think we did well. Things I spotted:

1. Our defenders and defending is looking a bit rusty, so I think we should be prepared to concede quite a few goals in our opening fixtures.

2. Zubimendi was a bit more relaxed and like others have pointed out he'll be a reliable outlet to switch play and dictate attacks from quite deep....a bit like Xhaka tried to do often but clearly Zubi is more skillful. This should be good for speedy players and those who theoretically flourish with through balls i.e a Martinelli, but lets see. Anyway my money is on Gyokores hopefully taking advantage of this.

3. I still think there is a place for Havertz in the team once Gyokores starts, but it'll be the Odegaard role...the thing is with Nwaneri, possibly Eze and this young maverick Dowman...its like we've got too many options for that role.

4. Same could be said for Saka's backup as all the options that can deputise for Odegaard can do so for Saka too, plus Madueke.

5. As for the left, we started the first half quite well with Merino and Trossard combining pretty nicely. I don't know what we'll do, but for now I still feel Trossard is heads and above all his competition for that role.

6. As for Dowman, just watch the highlights....a true star in the making. I just hope he bulks up a bit and is lucky with injuries....if those two things go well for him, Nwaneri, Odegaard and even Saka have got to be looking over their shoulders. Also the kid needs to stay humble but honestly Lord knows that if I was that talented at that age, it would be impossible just like people are finding out with Yamal. Pretty special kid and definitely the highlight of the day.

[HCZ_Reborn]

People having been waxing lyrical about Dowman for some time but until you see a player that young play against premier league opposition you can’t really tell whether the hype is justified. Given the physicality of Newcastle (and that piece of shit Joelinton slapping him in the face) he really showed prodigious talent

He’s not eligible for champions league until the new year, which is probably just as well given this is his GCSE year :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's a shame he can't play in Europe yet as it would probably suit him more than the EPL, especially as it's less physical. IIRC a lot of Wilshere's great early performances actually came in Europe too.

[selassie]

People having been waxing lyrical about Dowman for some time but until you see a player that young play against premier league opposition you can’t really tell whether the hype is justified. Given the physicality of Newcastle (and that piece of shit Joelinton slapping him in the face) he really showed prodigious talent

He’s not eligible for champions league until the new year, which is probably just as well given this is his GCSE year :lol:

Young English players do get overhyped but this kid looks like an elite talent, generational talent if he continues to develop. At times he was walking around the Newcastle players like a Prime "Messi", honestly unbelievable to see, but I am so happy we have talent on our hands like this.

He is definitely ready to contribute now but I guess we will ease him in. I think by this time next year he will be starting games similar to how MLS & Nwaneri were introduced.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Young English players do get overhyped but this kid looks like an elite talent, generational talent if he continues to develop. At times he was walking around the Newcastle players like a Prime "Messi", honestly unbelievable to see, but I am so happy we have talent on our hands like this.

He is definitely ready to contribute now but I guess we will ease him in. I think by this time next year he will be starting games similar to how MLS & Nwaneri were introduced.

Yeah 100% agree with all that

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Seeing Dowman and Nwaneri start in the Carabao games will be fun.

I assume Dowman can play in that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seeing Dowman and Nwaneri start in the Carabao games will be fun.

I assume Dowman can play in that.

He can play in the league, only competition he won’t be able to play in is champions league (until January)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ah because he'll be 16 by then presumably. If we get through the league stage of course.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gyokeres doesn’t start

[HCZ_Reborn]

Raya lobbed again for a goal, clearly a problem for us

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I mean. Who cares, really?
I'd forgotten this was on tbh (although I did talk to a colleague based on HK about it earlier)
He's a Spurs fan and couldn't get a ticket for L nor M.

You obviously aren't serious about this comment.

Like I said earlier, I wonder WTF we were thinking booking this as a friendly.

There has been absolutely nothing "friendly" about the challenges and its a miracle we don't have a player seriously injured yet.

Spurs are deservedly ahead as they've hit the post like 3 times thanks to embarrassing defending when it comes to attacking crosses.

We've probably been the better team but we've not made their keeper work at all (my stream has been a bit unreliable so I might be wrong).

Same old Arsenal for now, though we've lost our superiority in the air, both when we're attacking and defending.

We'll only probably get back into this game due to some sort of cockup from them or they relax a bit and actually start playing like it is a friendly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You obviously aren't serious about this comment.

Like I said earlier, I wonder WTF we were thinking booking this as a friendly.

There has been absolutely nothing "friendly" about the challenges and its a miracle we don't have a player seriously injured yet.

Spurs are deservedly ahead as they've hit the post like 3 times thanks to embarrassing defending when it comes to attacking crosses.

We've probably been the better team but we've not made their keeper work at all (my stream has been a bit unreliable so I might be wrong).

Same old Arsenal for now, though we've lost our superiority in the air, both when we're attacking and defending.

We'll only probably get back into this game due to some sort of cockup from them or they relax a bit and actually start playing like it is a friendly.

What do you think is behind the lack of aerial security? Not having Gabriel?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What do you think is behind the lack of aerial security? Not having Gabriel?

The funny thing is that Kiwior is probably as good with his head as Gabriel, but his ability to sniff danger or set the tempo when it comes to defending is seriously lacking.

I think both he and Saliba are to similar in their lackadaisical attitude to danger and this is where we are missing Gabriel and even Caliafiori...even though the latter is probably the weakest in the air.

As for the attacking during set pieces and corners, definitely missing Gabriel and Merino. The others have always been crap with their heading abilities.....though it must be said the set piece play has been pretty poor throughout this tour.

[Letters]

You obviously aren't serious about this comment.
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley

:unsure:


Like I said earlier, I wonder WTF we were thinking booking this as a friendly.

There has been absolutely nothing "friendly" about the challenges and its a miracle we don't have a player seriously injured yet.
Well yes, this is a reasonable point. I don't care about the result but having this sort of game as a friendly is probably a bad idea. I do care about us getting injuries.

Pre-season has long since stopped being about preparing for the upcoming season, it's all about money generation and fanbase building now.

:shrug:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley

:unsure:


Well yes, this is a reasonable point. I don't care about the result but having this sort of game as a friendly is probably a bad idea. I do care about us getting injuries.

Pre-season has long since stopped being about preparing for the upcoming season, it's all about money generation and fanbase building now.

:shrug:

TBF the fans in Hong Kong have been pretty great...one would think it was a proper EPL game with the atmosphere they've created.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Trossard and Zubimendi on....clearly Arteta is taking this game seriously by not bringing in more subs, but I'm not sure I agree with this approach...seeing as we're likely losing this.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What I mean is we'd be better served with fresh legs and creating a plausible narrative that we didn't take this game seriously.

[Letters]

TBF the fans in Hong Kong have been pretty great...one would think it was a proper EPL game with the atmosphere they've created.

Loads of ex-pats out there, many of whom probably haven't had a chance to see Arsenal live in ages. I can understand why it sold out.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Raya lobbed again for a goal, clearly a problem for us

Yep, he's too short for a keeper IMO.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yep, he's too short for a keeper IMO.

I'd agree with this now after watching that teenage marvel that Milan have.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Trossard and Zubimendi on....clearly Arteta is taking this game seriously by not bringing in more subs, but I'm not sure I agree with this approach...seeing as we're likely losing this.

He's being an arrogant prick.

Friendly or not - it's the fucking SPUDS.

Goku will be lucky to play 5 mins in this, it's this shit that I hate about Arteta - no game is 'just a friendly'

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gyokores and Dowman.....finally some sense from Arteta, though they've only got 10 mins.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Wanted Nwaneri in badly as this game suits him.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Trossard injured now :rolleyes:

No sale for him then.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Trossard injured....though he's at least able to walk off the pitch so it might not be that bad.

[Chippy]

Gyokores and Dowman.....finally some sense from Arteta, though they've only got 10 mins.

Is it too early to post an "Arteta Out" comment?:shrug:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gyokores set up Zubi for our best chance of the half, but again we still couldn't make anything of it or even get their keeper to make a save.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ben White has truly been terrible today.

[HCZ_Reborn]

9 blocked shots in this game. This I think explains the problem. We simply aren’t getting the ball forward quick enough and we are giving them a chance to congest the box

[Letters]

Is it too early to post an "Arteta Out" comment?:shrug:

Never!

Fire up the "When will Artete be sacked?" thread!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If this had been a proper EPL game we'd have seen about 3 red cards...oh and one would have gone to Havertz for a ridiculous mistimed tackle.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

First NLD overseas and the Spuds deservedly have the bragging rights, seeing as they actually made our keeper make saves.

[KSE Comedy Club]

9 blocked shots in this game. This I think explains the problem. We simply aren’t getting the ball forward quick enough and we are giving them a chance to congest the box

Yep, although only 1 on target

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Learnt nothing from this game besides the already observed fact that we're going to leak ridiculous goals without Gabriel once this season starts.

Wish we had never played it TBH.

[dazthegooner]

I'd agree with this now after watching that teenage marvel that Milan have.
Maybe Kepa isn’t just been bought in as cover didn’t Arteta want him before we signed Reya?

[Letters]

Wish we had never played it TBH.
But think of all that lovely money!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

9 blocked shots in this game. This I think explains the problem. We simply aren’t getting the ball forward quick enough and we are giving them a chance to congest the box

When Odegaard dictates our play everything becomes so obvious and predictable, especially when we are a goal down.

Arteta should have just approached this game like he did the others, but his ego got the best of him and he wanted to force a performance out of his starting eleven.

Might end up being a positive to lose early though, maybe we'll start taking the basics ( like set pieces) seriously again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep, although only 1 on target

We had 16 shots, 1 on target, 9 blocked, 6 off target (too high or wide)

No way of knowing whether blocked shots would have been on target or not

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

But think of all that lovely money!

You are simply incorrigible :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

When Odegaard dictates our play everything becomes so obvious and predictable, especially when we are a goal down.

Arteta should have just approached this game like he did the others, but his ego got the best of him and he wanted to force a performance out of his starting eleven.

Might end up being a positive to lose early though, maybe we'll start taking the basics ( like set pieces) seriously again.

Frank did the same, was his ego also an issue

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I don't think they've had positive results this preseason....plus he's a new coach and their is probably no better way to get on the right side of his supporters than by beating us by whatsoever means necessary.

Probably his record against us was one of the reasons he got the job in the first place :lol:

They pretty much just sat back and defended after taking the lead.

[Letters]

I'd love to see some analysis of pre-season results and whether they correlate in any way with success in the following season.
I'd be very surprised if there is any link.

[Letters]

Just seen the goal :haha:
Dear me.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'd love to see some analysis of pre-season results and whether they correlate in any way with success in the following season.
I'd be very surprised if there is any link.

We've done this before, there really isn't.....I mean with us anyway.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd love to see some analysis of pre-season results and whether they correlate in any way with success in the following season.
I'd be very surprised if there is any link.

Well let’s hope not because that game was redolent of last season. Too predictable, struggling with a low block because we have not enough creativity in midfield, too much of the attack coming down the right.

That and not dealing with danger from set pieces, a keeper who is too short coming too far out of his goal and being lobbed

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just seen the goal :haha:
Dear me.

Stupid pass from Raya, MLS kept falling all over the place and a brilliant finish by the Senegalese guy, can't remember his name.

The thing is they'd hit our post like 3 times before that so it was well deserved.

[Mac76]

I'm sure there isn't and tbh let the pathetic spuds fans celebrate, it'll be different when they meet in earnest (I hope...)

Still a very stupid idea to play Toon and Spuds in pre-season though I hope it's a one-off but sadly doubt it

[Chippy]

Never!

Fire up the "When will Artete be sacked?" thread!

It is done my friend :music:

[Letters]

:lol: You scallywag!

[Chippy]

:lol: You scallywag!

I just can't help myself, lol!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://talksport.com/football/3433018/richarlison-arsenal-tottenham-north-london-derby-gabriel/

A classy response from Gabby and a bit more evidence that he was sorely missed .....I mean 3 MOTMs in proper NLD games is no mean feat.

[KSE Comedy Club]

After watching the goal, Raya's height isn't so much the issue - it's the absolute fucking spastic positioning that is the problem!

:banghead:

[KSE Comedy Club]

We had 16 shots, 1 on target, 9 blocked, 6 off target (too high or wide)

No way of knowing whether blocked shots would have been on target or not

I know but statically, 16 shots and only 1 on target is fucking amateur

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know but statically, 16 shots and only 1 on target is fucking amateur

The point is though doesn’t matter how good a striker you are, if you’ve got bodies in the way you can’t get a shot off on target. If we have 16 shots and 15 of them were wide that’s one thing but that over half of them are being blocked means the main problem we have is creativity (the kind of problem you have with creativity when you play two defensive midfielders).

Yesterday we were going long ball at times which suggests even Arteta recognises the low block is not helping us and we need to get the ball forward quicker

[Mac76]

I know but statically, 16 shots and only 1 on target is fucking amateur

seriously you shouldn't give a s*** about these games, they're a f***ing marketing exercise and mean nothing

I don't rate Arteta's intelligence very highly but surely even he isn't stupid enough to show any new tactics etc to all our rivals ahead of the new season

I like friendies against overseas opposition but the PL ones are BS and i watched none of it except the last five mins of Newcastle and that's only because people online were going on about how good Dowman was

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Letters mentioned something about how preseason results are not indicative of the how a team actually carries on into the new season...I do agree with him especially when it comes to us in the past few seasons.

However, one thing I will say is how players perform in pre-season can be indicative of how they'll probably start the season, as I can recollect this has been true for a lot of our "confidence" players like Jesus and Havertz.

So far, Raya has been pretty shaky and TBH I think that'll continue for a while especially with the start we have. White has been erratic, which IIRC was quite similar to either the way he started last season or the one before.

I'm not even going to bother about assessing Martinelli as I'm getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. Havertz has actually been quite solid and pretty much in the form we've always known him to be.

What should bother us though is how the players who carry the team play. Rice has been Rice...nothing really special so far but that was similar to how he started last season. Odegaard pretty much the same, nothing new, which likely means the struggles of the recent past against low blocks are likely to continue.

Saka on the other hand hasn't still gotten up to speed with how dangerous he was pre his last long layoff. Should one be worried? i still think it's early days and I consider Saka one of those few players we've had in the last few decades that actually thrives under pressure, and I don't mean being endlessly played in every game like Arteta does, what I mean is he shows up when needed.

So I think we should focus more on how our new signings (and the youngsters) are adjusting and thier contributions. Gyokores needs to start whatever is left of all pre season games to get him into the scoring rhythm asap. Zubi needs more time on the pitch with other players, forming meaningful partnerships,without always being babysat with the familiar assuring voice of Merino.

Norgaard is going to be ok, he's having little problem adapting, just needs to be more forceful and be himself. Mosquera seems like he'll be fine also, but if things go well he shouldn't really play a big part this season. Though we may need options for fullbacks and I think he might be able to help as he is pretty mobile and comfortable on the ball like most Spanish players.

Kepa, surprisingly has probably been the best of the bunch and we may need him more than we think if Raya continues this way.

All in all, the new signings aren't that bad, but they need to play more of a part this preseason...and that includes Madueke and if we intend to sign Eze, we need to drastically hurry it up!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think this game rings massive alarm bells because it was played with the intensity and seriousness of a league fixture. The whole thing is clearly a money spinner and pre season fixtures are clearly done with that intent rather than getting the team ready for the new season. But as certain people on here seem to not to be able to get to grips with as a concept is that two things can be true, this game was not meant to be a serious match but it was played as though it was

And more importantly we are seeing all the same deficiencies that were there last season, the haphazard marking, the goalkeeper playing like a man five inches taller than he actually is, the fucked up inverted full back system combined with Lewis-Skelly foolishly believing he is a premier league standard midfielder and most of all the horrendously slow build up play. Arteta in fairness is clearly not unaware of these shortcomings (especially the last one) and we’ve reverted to playing a long ball system…which whilst Havertz is very good at holding up the ball, he’s not the type of play off the shoulder of the last defender attacker (Gyokeres could do that, shall have to see)
But main issue for me is the distinct lack of creativity in the middle of the park, this is the irony of the team we’ve made it full of water carriers because of Arteta’s antipathy towards conceding goals but they are having to overcommit and push up to try and make something happen which means we get monstered for pace (and that’s when we aren’t forgetting everything we used to do well when defending set pieces)

Odegaard is a disgrace, that he’s the captain of the team encapsulates a malaise. He’s a contemptible coward (and he was never immensely technically gifted to begin with).

So double dilemma, still far from convinced that goals are going to be more plentiful. And 2025 especially demonstrated that defending is no longer to be relied on to balance out the goal scoring issues. And this isn’t just me ripping on Gyokeres, the problem is far too deep rooted just to be solved with one striker signing

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-play-athletic-club-twice-32184448.amp

The Scousers are playing twice against Bilbao today. Apparently this will allow everyone in the team to have a meaningful runout.

This looks like a good idea worth emulating rather than staggered friendllies with Saka playing every game.

[Mac76]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-play-athletic-club-twice-32184448.amp

The Scousers are playing twice against Bilbao today. Apparently this will allow everyone in the team to have a meaningful runout.

This looks like a good idea worth emulating rather than staggered friendllies with Saka playing every game.

yeah makes a lot of sense

[IBK]

Letters mentioned something about how preseason results are not indicative of the how a team actually carries on into the new season...I do agree with him especially when it comes to us in the past few seasons.

However, one thing I will say is how players perform in pre-season can be indicative of how they'll probably start the season, as I can recollect this has been true for a lot of our "confidence" players like Jesus and Havertz.

So far, Raya has been pretty shaky and TBH I think that'll continue for a while especially with the start we have. White has been erratic, which IIRC was quite similar to either the way he started last season or the one before.

I'm not even going to bother about assessing Martinelli as I'm getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. Havertz has actually been quite solid and pretty much in the form we've always known him to be.

What should bother us though is how the players who carry the team play. Rice has been Rice...nothing really special so far but that was similar to how he started last season. Odegaard pretty much the same, nothing new, which likely means the struggles of the recent past against low blocks are likely to continue.

Saka on the other hand hasn't still gotten up to speed with how dangerous he was pre his last long layoff. Should one be worried? i still think it's early days and I consider Saka one of those few players we've had in the last few decades that actually thrives under pressure, and I don't mean being endlessly played in every game like Arteta does, what I mean is he shows up when needed.

So I think we should focus more on how our new signings (and the youngsters) are adjusting and thier contributions. Gyokores needs to start whatever is left of all pre season games to get him into the scoring rhythm asap. Zubi needs more time on the pitch with other players, forming meaningful partnerships,without always being babysat with the familiar assuring voice of Merino.

Norgaard is going to be ok, he's having little problem adapting, just needs to be more forceful and be himself. Mosquera seems like he'll be fine also, but if things go well he shouldn't really play a big part this season. Though we may need options for fullbacks and I think he might be able to help as he is pretty mobile and comfortable on the ball like most Spanish players.

Kepa, surprisingly has probably been the best of the bunch and we may need him more than we think if Raya continues this way.

All in all, the new signings aren't that bad, but they need to play more of a part this preseason...and that includes Madueke and if we intend to sign Eze, we need to drastically hurry it up!

Agree with this. Pre-season should not be over-focussed on, but the worry for me (aside from the familiar failings that HCZ observes) is that so few players (and none of our key ones) are showing any scintillating form. Dowman has been the outstanding candidate so far, and it's a little concerning that almost noone else has caught the eye. Let's hope this changes tonight...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gabriel and Timber on the bench

Gyokeres starts

No Havertz even on the bench

No Partey for them (not sure if he’s officially joined yet) but there is an ex Arsenal player in Nicolas Pepe

[dazthegooner]

Who’s scored

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gosh what a surprise

We dominate possession, create little…what little we do create is off target and then we are too lazy to deal with a cross

[HCZ_Reborn]

0-2 now

Utterly pathetic :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

1-2

Norgaard

[HCZ_Reborn]

As always the attack is far too slow

[Mac76]

Villareal finding it easy to create chances when they get forward but also very well organised in defence

Vic doing all the right things (though he got in the way of a potential Neaneri shot) wouldn't be surprosed if he scores

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Missed the first 20 mins but not sure I missed much.

Another listless performance with the usual suspects doing their thing.

Martinelli has been pretty useless again , though it was his corner that got our only goal.

Saka looks tired already. Kiwior defended poorly and has the final blame for both goals.

Our midfield isn't inspiring, though Norgaard has been ok for a player of his quality. But absolutely nothing inspiring from his partnership with Merino.

The brightest moments I've seen have come from Nwanerri as usual....the only problem with him is he still isn't able to dictate the rhythm of the game as he's more of a no10 in the mold of Lampard, in that he should be playing behind strikers and not coming from deep as he's not able to find space and free himself ATM.

What Arteta could have tried quite early was yanking Martinelli off and playing Havertz with Gyokores..... but what he'll do is stick with the same rigid shap and probably bring in Trossard, I mean Arteta is so predictably dull I really wonder how we are able to fill our stadium week in and out.

Oh well, lets see what the 2nd half has in store.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I bet Villarreal has their starting 11 out there, getting them all match fit and playing & learning together.

Instead Arteta insists on mixing up the team with back ups and tinkering / fucking about.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A cute moment during half time...Dowman being treated like a star already with fans begging him to sign their jerseys...pretty cute and well deserved....at least he entertains.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I bet Villarreal has their starting 11 out there, getting them all match fit and playing & learning together.

Instead Arteta insists on mixing up the team with back ups and tinkering / fucking about.

Best we tinker as much as possible as Arteta's starting 11 is nothing special....at least thats what preseason has been making clear to us.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sorry but this season is going to be fucking infuriating if we continue to COMPLETETY IGNORE THE CENTRAL CHANNEL FOR ATTACKING PURPOSES!!!!!!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Best we tinker as much as possible as Arteta's starting 11 is nothing special....at least thats what preseason has been making clear to us.

I’ve always had the opinion that the starting 11 should be playing 60% of all preseason games, so that they have time to settle in and get their football brains re engaged.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

As predicted when I first saw him, Arteta has turned Mosqurea into a fullback......really Mikel, we'll soon be telling you what you'll have for breakfast at this rate.

[KSE Comedy Club]

FK wasted with some pointless fucking about

[Letters]

From FB (I haven't checked this)


The Arsenal Invincibles side in pre-season that year lost to Peterborough 1-0, drew with Barnet 0-0 and SC Ritzing 2-2. They also drew with Celtic 1-1 and Beveren 2-2.
I can only imagine what would've happened if social media was around back then

[KSE Comedy Club]

It seems the whole team have forgotten that we bought a striker :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

From FB (I haven't checked this)

The stakes are totally different now though.

We hadn’t waited 20+ years to win the title for example

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We're kind of getting into a bit of rhythm now, but one thing needs to change, which is Martinelli coming off asap.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gabriel coming in....I'm literally shedding tears of joy here!!!!

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goku off

Sack Arteta now, he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I've got to say I'm loving this kid Mosquera, he's so natural.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Goku off

Sack Arteta now, he doesn’t know what he’s doing!

Yup, he should be sacked.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yup, he should be sacked.

How the fuck does he bring on most of the starting 11 now and then take off the striker and put merino up top !?!

What a monumental prick

[KSE Comedy Club]

:haha:


I hope you were taking notes on how to pull off a quick counter attack Arteta you twat!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

3-1

A bit poor from Kepa.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

How the fuck does he bring on most of the starting 11 now and then take off the striker and put merino up top !?!

What a monumental prick

TBH I thought he was bringing on Havertz and was shocked to see Merino and Martinelli still on the field...its like Arteta really does want to fuck with everyone and get the sack before December.

[KSE Comedy Club]

TBH I thought he was bringing on Havertz and was shocked to see Merino and Martinelli still on the field...its like Arteta really does want to fuck with everyone and get the sack before December.

Exactly.

He’s probably determined to prove everyone wrong.
Difference now is I couldn’t give a fuck about him and his ego

[HCZ_Reborn]

There was no Havertz to bring on

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Dowman winning us a penalty again....the senior players should be really ashamed of themselves.


3-2

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Madueke on...he'll probably score tbf.

[KSE Comedy Club]

There was no Havertz to bring on

His bang average love child - yeh probably

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

3 mins added time ..we're losing again today.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My stream ended prematurely... probably for the best :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep this season is done with before it’s begun

[KSE Comedy Club]

Woo

Great loss, well done everyone :clap:

Now on to penalties

[Mac76]

Impressed with Mpsquera, Norgaard, Vic and Dowman, I'll be kind and say Zubi needs to get up to speed, Madueke was ok on the few occasions he had the ball, Kepa seemed ok

Pepe showed why we were the wrong team for a player like him, our play is far too slow, he looked very dangerous for them though

[KSE Comedy Club]

Impressed with Mpsquera, Norgaard, Vic and Dowman, I'll be kind and say Zubi needs to get up to speed, Madueke was ok on the few occasions he had the ball, Kepa seemed ok

Pepe showed why we were the wrong team for a player like him, our play is far too slow, he looked very dangerous for them though
You can blame Arteta for that

[KSE Comedy Club]

Well the penalties were no better than the main performance.

“Goosebumps”

lol, more like arse pimples

[Mac76]

It had to be Madueke didn't it...

[Mac76]

You can blame Arteta for that

Happy to :good:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Impressed with Mpsquera, Norgaard, Vic and Dowman, I'll be kind and say Zubi needs to get up to speed, Madueke was ok on the few occasions he had the ball, Kepa seemed ok

Pepe showed why we were the wrong team for a player like him, our play is far too slow, he looked very dangerous for them though

Pretty good summary...Pepe was probably man of the match.

This was one of the main reasons I didn't want Sesko here....Arteta's track record with talented young players is actually frightening.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Happy to :good:

Agreed :)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mosquera looks a steal by the way, a pretty impressive player especially with that height.

I'd even take the risk and pair him with Saliba, if Gabriel isn't still able to start games.

Kiwior has undone all the good work he did filling in for Gabriel last season ... he's been totally lackadaisical this whole pre-season.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

For those who might be disappointed that Gyok didn't score....though I started the 1st half a bit late , I noticed that every time we had that ball from mainly Saka thats cuts across the goal, Gyok was there (though their keeper and defenders intercepted it everytime)...it was really refreshing to finally see that after almost 5 years of wishing for this.

[Mac76]

Pretty good summary...Pepe was probably man of the match.

This was one of the main reasons I didn't want Sesko here....Arteta's track record with talented young players is actually frightening.

I feel this preseason, while good from the point of view of signing talent, is already showing signs of our potentially failing to make the best of them

The task of making the team more than the sum of its parts has to be what Arteta is measured by and if he can't it's time to move on.

[Letters]

The stakes are totally different now though.

We hadn’t waited 20+ years to win the title for example

True but also kinda irrelevant.
The point is pre-season results really don’t have much bearing on the upcoming season

[HCZ_Reborn]

True but also kinda irrelevant.
The point is pre-season results really don’t have much bearing on the upcoming season

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/01/14/this-is-fine_wide-4a729b43a69f924bb86eb688b8f3bb38ff19be3b.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

Not bothered about pre-season to be honest but I’m very much ready to bump the Arteta sack thread after the United game because we don’t look great, still as stodgy as ever.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

For those who might be disappointed that Gyok didn't score....though I started the 1st half a bit late , I noticed that every time we had that ball from mainly Saka thats cuts across the goal, Gyok was there (though their keeper and defenders intercepted it everytime)...it was really refreshing to finally see that after almost 5 years of wishing for this.

Sky pretty much saying the same thing about Gyok's performance, I still think it was a shame he was taken off when he was, especially as the guys that came on offered Merino far better service eventually:


Gyokeres attacked the box unlike any Arsenal centre forward in the current era. It took the Swede just 30 seconds to pull away into the left channel, take the ball into the box and cross. There was an unwanted tap-in on offer.

Arsenal have a centre forward in Kai Havertz who tends to move to the right channel to link up with Martin Odegaard and Bukayo Saka. The Gunners have a different option in Gyokeres for a different flank.

Then there was a moment late in the first half, when Gyokeres stood up two defenders and barged through both of them. Again, he pulled the ball back for a cross, but nobody was there.

It brings us nicely onto the next key feature of Gyokeres' game: being within the width of the posts.

In the past, Arsenal have had options like Havertz and Gabriel Jesus and come for the ball, and while there was a bit of that with Gyokeres, his desire to stay on the last line and wait for chances in the box was clear.

Saka managed to beat his opposite man on two or three occasions in the first half, with Gyokeres in position from close range to pick up on any scraps. He nearly got on one in the opening period, but instead whacked the ball into Christian Norgaard on the stretch.

Then came his moment in the second half. Gyokeres was played through to the right of the box and had a tight angle, but still forced a solid save from Villarreal goalkeeper Luiz Junior.

It was an attack through the middle of the pitch - Arsenal ranked 20th out of all Premier League teams in that statistic last season. It was also a curved run in behind - instead of a link-up attack that Havertz is used to - that opened up a stubborn defence.

It ended up being Gyokeres' last action of the game, with him substituted at the hour mark. It is clear that the Swedish striker still has some fitness to catch up on.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13407848/viktor-gyokeres-how-did-arsenals-new-striker-do-in-his-first-start-against-villarreal-amid-max-dowmans-star-showing

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not bothered about pre-season to be honest but I’m very much ready to bump the Arteta sack thread after the United game because we don’t look great, still as stodgy as ever.

Artetaball is really depressing...and it's not even about winning or losing , it just so boring and predictable.....which is why Dowman is getting all the plaudits for bringing something different and fresh...TBH their must be a way to stay at the top and play football that excites people, it's really really becoming an issue.

[HCZ_Reborn]

How we play seems to be about smothering the other team, which is fine if we are playing a team like Real Madrid, but against teams that don’t commit many forward it’s ultimately ineffective. Playing a plodder like Merino at 8 is simply not going to work, I’ve said for ages we should sell him…he doesn’t offer us anything

If we sign someone like Eze, we need to be playing them alongside Nwaneri in front of Rice or Zubimendi (preferably Rice as Zubimendi looks like a totally pointless signing as well). There’s no point saying we need to change the way we play, we need the right players playing in order to facilitate this

[Chippy]

Not bothered about pre-season to be honest but I’m very much ready to bump the Arteta sack thread after the United game because we don’t look great, still as stodgy as ever.

Too late mate, I have already bumped the "Arteta sack" thread :coffee:

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/01/14/this-is-fine_wide-4a729b43a69f924bb86eb688b8f3bb38ff19be3b.jpg

:gp:

[Letters]

:gp:

No.

:shitpost:

As it completely ignores or misunderstands the argument. The argument is not "this is fine", the argument is we don't know if it's fine yet as the season hasn't started and previous experience shows us that a patchy pre-season does not mean a patchy season. So wetting your pants before a ball has been kicked in anger is a little silly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No.

:shitpost:

As it completely ignores or misunderstands the argument. The argument is not "this is fine", the argument is we don't know if it's fine yet as the season hasn't started and previous experience shows us that a patchy pre-season does not mean a patchy season. So wetting your pants before a ball has been kicked in anger is a little silly.

So

What you’re saying is I should have edited the meme to have in the speech bubble….”we don’t know if this is a raging fire yet “

[Mac76]

Sky pretty much saying the same thing about Gyok's performance, I still think it was a shame he was taken off when he was, especially as the guys that came on offered Merino far better service eventually

Yes I thought the same, e.g. Odegaard looked sharp when he came on but from memory they weren't on the pitch at the same time, so I think when he builds an understanding with Gyokeres that could be pretty productive

[Mac76]

No.

:shitpost:

As it completely ignores or misunderstands the argument. The argument is not "this is fine", the argument is we don't know if it's fine yet as the season hasn't started and previous experience shows us that a patchy pre-season does not mean a patchy season. So wetting your pants before a ball has been kicked in anger is a little silly.

I'd generally agree although I'd like to see more of an obvious plan and it looks worrying that we seem a bit untogether at the back

So there aren't any fires yet but maybe just a hint of smoke

I think with these signings the pressure on Arteta to deliver is immense, everyone's fed up with all the media baiting about us being bottlers, losers, runners-up etc etc - we need to be on the podium, nothing less will do

Another person on a short timer is Madueke - got good support last night (almost OTT if you didn't know the context), but let's see how long it lasts if he doesn't prove to be particularly great

[Letters]

So

What you’re saying is I should have edited the meme to have in the speech bubble….”we don’t know if this is a raging fire yet “

I’m saying the meme doesn’t really apply.
It’s used in situations where literally everyone can see the house is burning down and one person is pretending that everything is fine and it isn’t happening.
I don’t think either of those things apply here.

I haven’t seen any pre season games and if I had I wouldn’t be drawing any conclusions from them.
I’m generally pretty happy with our summer dealings, but other clubs have done good business too.
I honestly don’t know how we will do this season. I’m not super confident about things but
I don’t think we will completely crash and burn.
But until the season gets going and the table starts to take shape it’s hard to be sure.

[Letters]

I think with these signings the pressure on Arteta to deliver is immense, everyone's fed up with all the media baiting about us being bottlers, losers, runners-up etc etc - we need to be on the podium, nothing less will do
Completely agree with this.
Chatting to a Gooner in the office last week, in the halcyon days when I had a job.
She’s very much “Arteta Out”.
I’m not but this season is very much last chance saloon for me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m saying the meme doesn’t really apply.
It’s used in situations where literally everyone can see the house is burning down and one person is pretending that everything is fine and it isn’t happening.
I don’t think either of those things apply here.

I haven’t seen any pre season games and if I had I wouldn’t be drawing any conclusions from them.
I’m generally pretty happy with our summer dealings, but other clubs have done good business too.
I honestly don’t know how we will do this season. I’m not super confident about things but
I don’t think we will completely crash and burn.
But until the season gets going and the table starts to take shape it’s hard to be sure.

If the room is getting hotter, the air is getting harder to breathe and your eyes are stinging from smoke…there’s a good chance that what you’ve got is a fire on your hands

Your argument that it’s pre-season so it doesn’t count, would make sense if we were somehow playing differently to how we were especially at the end of last season, but we aren’t…what’s scary about these defeats is how familiar they seem.

And we can go well we need to wait and see if this player comes back from injury, or this player beds in well. Horse shit. To use a Simpson’s analogy we are stuck in a tar pit trying to use our arms to pull our legs free.

We could miraculously start playing purposefully at Old Trafford making the stodgy ineffective mess that’s been all four pre-season games an aberration, ask yourself this…how likely do you think that is?

[KSE Comedy Club]

No.

:shitpost:

As it completely ignores or misunderstands the argument. The argument is not "this is fine", the argument is we don't know if it's fine yet as the season hasn't started and previous experience shows us that a patchy pre-season does not mean a patchy season. So wetting your pants before a ball has been kicked in anger is a little silly.

That's based on different sets of players under different management. Also, people trotting out the 'its only preseason, it doesn't mean anything, blah, blah, blah' is a load of cobblers.
When you see the same problems appearing and the same players doing the same stupid shit, it mean none of those issues have been addressed.
Starting the new season like that won't change that or fix them either.

The problem here is our game play has fallen short 3 season in a row now, and I would argue it's deteriorated since the second time we finished 2nd.
There are new personnel, which is great, but we are seeing the same shit which saw us fail time and again, when we needed not to.

That raises my concern significantly ahead of the new season.

Also, :shitpost: is not an emoji, I suggest you create one for future counter posts :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

And by the way nothing is written in stone to say we are going to go down in flames, but now might be the time to get out the fire extinguisher not say well we don’t know that the cladding on the outside of the building is flammable…let’s not spread panic.

Though I find it hard to come to any other conclusion but that the fire extinguisher is bringing in two more players (and making the sales to accommodate this) and sacking Arteta….new players, same style of play. The kind of bold and ruthless move that there’s more chance of me converting to Islam than KSE making

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's based on different sets of players under different management.

The problem here is our game play has fallen short 3 season in a row now, and I would argue it's deteriorated since the second time we finished 2nd.
There are new personnel, which is great, but we are seeing the same shit which saw us fail time and again, when we needed not to.

That raises my concern significantly ahead of the new season.

I’d caveat what you’ve said by saying looking at it in terms of last three seasons, first season no one expected us to make a title challenge, there was significant doubt about finishing 4th. Second season, well the second half of the season…that’s probably the best I’ve seen an Arsenal side being in about twenty years (there’s been no other time where we’ve come close to winning 16 out of 18) so I’m not prepared to pick holes there either.

I would isolate it more at a malaise that’s taken hold since the beginning of last season where it’s obvious that sides know how to neutralise our attacking threat and that’s why 91 goals in 2022/2023 became 69 goals in 2023/2024. That and our defensive solidity has turned to complacency and laziness

[KSE Comedy Club]

It’s preseason, relax....

It’s game week 3, relax....

It’s game week 12, relax....

We’re gonna go on a crazy run in the 2nd half of the season....

season ends trophyless

Injuries, ref decisions, rain, etc - we go again!

[KSE Comedy Club]

Completely agree with this.
Chatting to a Gooner in the office last week, in the halcyon days when I had a job.
She’s very much “Arteta Out”.
I’m not but this season is very much last chance saloon for me.

I think most of us are or starting to lean that way.

Which is why what I am seeing in preseason is almost alarming.
Ok we will be in the mix, I have no doubt about that, but it could be a fight for top 4 instead of winning the prem.

The main thing I was looking for in preseason was us sharpening up at the back and being more focused, relentless and quicker in attack.

Instead it's been the opposite of those things. A fifteen year old is outplaying our senior players and making them look pathetic.
Surely, it is not an over reaction to be worried when I am seeing 24/25 season part 2?

[KSE Comedy Club]

If the room is getting hotter, the air is getting harder to breathe and your eyes are stinging from smoke…there’s a good chance that what you’ve got is a fire on your hands

Your argument that it’s pre-season so it doesn’t count, would make sense if we were somehow playing differently to how we were especially at the end of last season, but we aren’t…what’s scary about these defeats is how familiar they seem.

And we can go well we need to wait and see if this player comes back from injury, or this player beds in well. Horse shit. To use a Simpson’s analogy we are stuck in a tar pit trying to use our arms to pull our legs free.

We could miraculously start playing purposefully at Old Trafford making the stodgy ineffective mess that’s been all four pre-season games an aberration, ask yourself this…how likely do you think that is?

Agreed, but that could also be a couple of youth's 'hot boxing' some marijuana from a bong they made out of a coke bottle, in a cupboard.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agreed, but that could also be a couple of youth's 'hot boxing' some marijuana from a bong they made out of a coke bottle, in a cupboard.

Who the hell are you sub letting to? :lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Pre season is about getting the players fit and used to each other rather than results. In previous years, we have had great results and shocking starts to the season and vice versa.

when you look at the starting line ups for most games so far, I dont think any of them have been the side you would expect to start at Old Trafford (assuming everyone fully fit). Each game also sees pretty much everyone get substituted at some point so major changes are made which isn't easy either to fully assess the current readiness.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Pre season is about getting the players fit and used to each other rather than results. In previous years, we have had great results and shocking starts to the season and vice versa.

when you look at the starting line ups for most games so far, I dont think any of them have been the side you would expect to start at Old Trafford (assuming everyone fully fit). Each game also sees pretty much everyone get substituted at some point so major changes are made which isn't easy either to fully assess the current readiness.

The results aren’t what worries me, the performance…the stodginess, the slowness….different players, same constipated football.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’d caveat what you’ve said by saying looking at it in terms of last three seasons, first season no one expected us to make a title challenge, there was significant doubt about finishing 4th. Second season, well the second half of the season…that’s probably the best I’ve seen an Arsenal side being in about twenty years (there’s been no other time where we’ve come close to winning 16 out of 18) so I’m not prepared to pick holes there either.

I would isolate it more at a malaise that’s taken hold since the beginning of last season where it’s obvious that sides know how to neutralise our attacking threat and that’s why 91 goals in 2022/2023 became 69 goals in 2023/2024. That and our defensive solidity has turned to complacency and laziness

Yep I would agree with all of that :)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Who the hell are you sub letting to? :lol:

Letters ;)

[KSE Comedy Club]

The results aren’t what worries me, the performance…the stodginess, the slowness….different players, same constipated football.

Yup.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Pre season is about getting the players fit and used to each other rather than results. In previous years, we have had great results and shocking starts to the season and vice versa.

when you look at the starting line ups for most games so far, I dont think any of them have been the side you would expect to start at Old Trafford (assuming everyone fully fit). Each game also sees pretty much everyone get substituted at some point so major changes are made which isn't easy either to fully assess the current readiness.

My big issue last night was Arteta playing Gyokores to start the game, with half the staring 11 on the bench.

Then when he brings on Odegaard, Rice, Zubimendi, etc - they guys that you would expect to start feeding Goku some through balls and the like - he takes him off and puts Merino up front :doh:

Managing Goku to bring his fitness levels up is fine and understandable.

Not having him play with the main players that he should be is inexcusable.

[Mac76]

My big issue last night was Arteta playing Gyokores to start the game, with half the staring 11 on the bench.

Then when he brings on Odegaard, Rice, Zubimendi, etc - they guys that you would expect to start feeding Goku some through balls and the like - he takes him off and puts Merino up front :doh:

Managing Goku to bring his fitness levels up is fine and understandable.

Not having him play with the main players that he should be is inexcusable.

yes that's 100%, it was frankly barmy - totally blew an opportunity to give them all game time together - either he's as dumb as many of us think or I guess we have to say it's maybe because he wanted to hide what they've been working on - I wouldn't bet on it though...

[Letters]

It’s preseason, relax....

It’s game week 3, relax....

It’s game week 12, relax....

We’re gonna go on a crazy run in the 2nd half of the season....

season ends trophyless

Injuries, ref decisions, rain, etc - we go again!

Didn't you post something similar about 2 days into the transfer window when I thought it was a bit early to call the whole window a fiasco.
That said, HCZ's point about the way we are playing is of more concern. I actually think we've done pretty good business this summer but if we play the same shit as we did for much of last season then it won't yield much.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So discussing the situation with a friend who identified another issue. We have zero actual fullbacks

Lewis-Skelly is basically a midfielder, White, Timber and Calafiori are primarily centre backs. Whilst White does overlap with Saka, he’s getting older that natural pace is no longer there and whilst Saka has the ability to win the ball deep, it means that the left doesn’t get the service.

So we criticise Martinelli and Trossard as much as we like but they often aren’t getting the ball played to them quick enough especially for someone like Martinelli who relies on raw pace.


His words were we essentially have 14 centre backs and defensive midfielders in the squad

Lewis-Skelly, Calafiori, Kiwior, Gabriel, Saliba, Mosquera, White, Timber, Rice, Norgaard, Zinchenko, Merino and Zubimendi


When you look at it like that it’s patently absurd. Especially in comparison to the attacking players we have

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s the obsession with having merino and rice at 8. Merino can’t play at 8 he’s too slow (and he’s no good at 6 either so he needs to go). Rice can play at 8 but not against mid table teams that defend deep, you need someone who is a natural dribbler to open teams up.

So against your liverpools your cities etc id play both Zubimendi and Rice. For most mid table teams would play either Zubimendi or Rice at 6 (most likely Rice) and play a direct dribbler next to Nwaneri/Odegaard

That would be anathema to Arteta but the irony is we are not getting more defensive solidity by playing two defensive minded players in most games because we are having to push up more and leave space at the back

If you have more naturally creative players in the team who will run with the ball you can leave the 6 back to protect the back four and less likely to be stretched

I think the inverted full back shite works when you want to strangle the life out of the opposition and stodge up the midfield and stop the other side from having attacking opportunities.
But when you have a team that will only come forward on the counter, it fucks you for width and means players that aren’t necessarily that quick are having to push up

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

As expected, a much stronger team and likely the starting 11 against Man U. Lets hope for a better performance but I really hope he doesn't force the magic and just pulls off players who aren't contributing ( and yes, I'm looking at Martinelli).


Arsenal team news:

Team to play Athletic Club: Raya; Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori; Odegaard, Zubimendi, Rice; Saka, Gyokeres, Martinelli.

Subs: Kepa, Rojas, White, Mosquera, Kiwior, Zinchenko, Lewis-Skelly, Norgaard, Lokonga, Merino, Madueke, Nwaneri, Nelson, Havertz

Courtesy Sky

[Mac76]

Probably our first choice 11, apart from Cala ofc, odd not to start MLS, if he starts with Cala at Old Shiteford we've no chance

[HCZ_Reborn]

As expected, a much stronger team and likely the starting 11 against Man U. Lets hope for a better performance but I really hope he doesn't force the magic and just pulls off players who aren't contributing ( and yes, I'm looking at Martinelli).

Yeah thinking myself that this is probably if not the side he plays at Old Trafford close to it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Probably our first choice 11, apart from Cala ofc, odd not to start MLS, if he starts with Cala at Old Shiteford we've no chance

I think he'll take off the fullbacks in the 2nd half and give both MLS and White a twirl.

He has clearly set out not to concede today and started with his strongest defenders (which includes Martinelli as Maccy has corrected me on)...and in this case I do agree that Calafiori and Timber are stronger defensively than their counterparts at the moment.

[Mac76]

I don't agree, Cala can't defend adequately, certainly not in the LB position (he's possibly slightly better at CB), MLS may not have been at his best v Villareal but I'd have him above Cala every time, both going forward and defending

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think he'll take off the fullbacks in the 2nd half and give both MLS and White a twirl.

He has clearly set out not to concede today and started with his strongest defenders (which includes Martinelli as Maccy has corrected me on)...and in this case I do agree that Calafiori and Timber are stronger defensively than their counterparts at the moment.

Calafiori is also better on the ball than Lewis-Skelly. Though neither he or MLS are natural fullbacks and this is to a degree why we struggle going forward.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Calafiori is a goal threat at least from that position, he gets caught out a lot even when he is the actual LB position though.

[Mac76]

Nice ball from Ode there

[Mac76]

Big cockup from Cala in our box there, nearly led to a goal, I think someone said just a bit earlier he couldn't defend well... ;)

[Mac76]

Cala cocks up again, this time giving the ball away up the pitch

It's Zin all over again

[Mac76]

Saka finds Gyok at last but it's a lame shot easily saved

[Mac76]

Rice corner goes out of play

[Mac76]

Gyok scores from a header :scarf:

[Mac76]

Saka makes it 2-0

[HCZ_Reborn]

One goal follows the first quickly

The only thing that worries me is how much of a slog getting the first

Despite his defensive flaws, Calafiori links with Martinelli far better.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Zubimendi is pretty good with his passing.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I don't agree, Cala can't defend adequately, certainly not in the LB position (he's possibly slightly better at CB), MLS may not have been at his best v Villareal but I'd have him above Cala every time, both going forward and defending

My stream has been buggy, so I've seen like little snippets of the game and I did see a bit of Cali's cockups.

However, he is stronger defensively than MLS and what I mean by that is a Sesko or Mbuemo bearing down on MLS or Zinchenko is far more scary than imagining this scenario with Cali.

So IMO, especially if we don't go a goal down early, I'd start him over MLS as he's definitely stronger.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think today ends the argument that Havertz is superior in the air over Goku, or that he is average by any standard.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Good strength by Havertz there, his improved physique is really paying off.

[Mac76]

I think today ends the argument that Havertz is superior in the air over Goku, or that he is average by any standard.

Agreed :good:

[Mac76]

Much better, who'd have thought it would be a good idea to play Gyok with our first-choice midfield :rolleyes:

Man U will be a tougher test obvs, but it gives some hope

Zubi looked much better, Madueke looked decent, Mosq good again

[Mac76]

Oh and ofc Saka played 90 mins, some things never change...

[Mac76]

Madueke scores this time

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Oh and ofc Saka played 90 mins, some things never change...

:lol:

Arteta won't be happy till he's got him in a wheelchair.

[dazthegooner]

:lol:

Arteta won't be happy till he's got him in a wheelchair.

Well Ben White did try :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Befitting that Zubi scored the winning penalty.

I think he was MOTM by a mile today.

[Mac76]

Well Ben White did try :lol:

Ha, true :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Didn't you post something similar about 2 days into the transfer window when I thought it was a bit early to call the whole window a fiasco.
That said, HCZ's point about the way we are playing is of more concern. I actually think we've done pretty good business this summer but if we play the same shit as we did for much of last season then it won't yield much.

Two separate things.

I still would like us to do our business a bit earlier, then the players are in and training and don't have to get up to match fitness a couple of games before we start the season (like Gyokores for example).

But I agree, our style of play was fucking awful last season and there has been little change from what I've seen in preseason. I am more concerned with that but what I posted highlights why - it's only preseason, but it's useful game time for Arteta to start implementing a better style of play that is more effective. Something which he appears to not have done.
If we keep doing the same thing we won't see the benefit of the new players we have.