Manchester United vs Arsenal, 17.08.2025 - KO 16:30

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is a match I don’t think either side would have wanted as an opening day fixture, and both sides will be under pressure to get a result.


Our record at Old Trafford is to say the least poor, not just in the premier league era.


Even if you go back as far as 1970, our record up to today stands at


Wins 9

Draws 18

Defeats 28


1970 was the last time we scored more than twice at Old Trafford. We don’t exactly look set to break that record.

Frankly if we get five points from our opening three away games, I’ll consider that decent


Anyway 3-0 Bryan Robson Hat-trick

[Marc Overmars]

1-0 defeat.

I think this will be a testing season and possibly Arteta’s last tbh.

I don’t anticipate a good start given the fixtures so who knows what miserable knock on effect that could leave us with.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My feeling on Arteta’s continued tenure as manager goes as following

If Arteta wins the league or wins the champions league he deserves to stay, despite my personal disdain for him

Even if we finish outside the top 4/5, yet somehow win The champions league that would be enough for me.

If we finish league winners, and do shit in the champions league despite being annoyed at the latter that would be enough for me.

Making it to the final of the UCL, finishing close second, and winning an Fa cup. Nope sorry off you go


Though I doubt the board will see it that way

[HCZ_Reborn]

So in Ref Watch: Simon Hooper will be the referee on Sunday

Going back to last season he officiated five matches

Arsenal 3-0 Forest
Palace 1-5 Arsenal
Arsenal 2-1 Spurs
Arsenal 1-1 Brentford
Arsenal 1-0 Newcastle

Other people can disagree but I can’t think of any glaringly controversial issue in those games, the only one that remotely stands out is whether Christian Norgaard should have been sent off for hacking down Martinelli. In my mind (being at that game) it’s what I’d call an orange card offence. It’s a bad foul and one where a player might want to be brought off because if he coughs the wrong way he could be sent off, but not necessarily an outright red.

[KSE Comedy Club]

My feeling on Arteta’s continued tenure as manager goes as following

If Arteta wins the league or wins the champions league he deserves to stay, despite my personal disdain for him

Even if we finish outside the top 4/5, yet somehow win The champions league that would be enough for me.

If we finish league winners, and do shit in the champions league despite being annoyed at the latter that would be enough for me.

Making it to the final of the UCL, finishing close second, and winning an Fa cup. Nope sorry off you go


Though I doubt the board will see it that way

I would agree with that.

He has to win one of the two major trophies this season or there is no point continuing with him IMO.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Also, I think

2-1 us.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I would agree with that.

He has to win one of the two major trophies this season or there is no point continuing with him IMO.

IMO it's the league or nothing, I'm not interested in excuses or mitigating factors especially since you've come second 3 years straight to different opposition, which to me shows you're suffering from the same delusions as AW without the prior success to make it bearable.

Even last year, when I was pretty sure we'd go all out in the CL after the special Madrid tie, I still felt like even if he won it he'd deserve the sack for throwing away any chances of winning the title based on his ego and wanting to prove to the whole world that a capable striker has become obsolete in football. I despise those who aren't willing to push themselves and do what it takes to compete in this sport, especially when they have little to back up their superiority complex.

So in short for me, he wins the league or leaves. Probably if he won the CL and another minor trophy with it, I could reconsider..... but IMO it's always been about the league and after 6 years, we've shown more than enough faith in him for him to understand that and go on his own accord once he realises he cannot meet that expectations due to his own personal and tactical limitations.

[HCZ_Reborn]

IMO it's the league or nothing, I'm not interested in excuses or mitigating factors especially since you've come second 3 years straight to different opposition, which to me shows you're suffering from the same delusions as AW without the prior success to make it bearable.

Even last year, when I was pretty sure we'd go all out in the CL after the special Madrid tie, I still felt like even if he won it he'd deserve the sack for throwing away any chances of winning the title based on his ego and wanting to prove to the whole world that a capable striker has become obsolete in football. I despise those who aren't willing to push themselves and do what it takes to compete in this sport, especially when they have little to back up their superiority complex.

So in short for me, he wins the league or leaves. Probably if he won the CL and another minor trophy with it, I could reconsider..... but IMO it's always been about the league and after 6 years, we've shown more than enough faith in him for him to understand that and go on his own accord once he realises he cannot meet that expectations due to his own personal and tactical limitations.

I look at it by making a tennis analogy, in Tennis there are the ATP 1000 tournaments like Indian Wells and Miami which are nice tournaments to win, but the tournaments the top tennis players want to win are the Grand Slams. To my mind anyway, The league title and the European Cup are the two majors. For us the European cup would be the French open, because that’s generally the one title that eludes the top stars for so long - slower surface with less bounce and it takes more out of the player physically (Sampras never won it, Federer won it only because Nadal went out early one year in a shock defeat, and Djokovic like Federer got to his 4th final before winning it)

I’m not sure if I’d want us to win the European Cup more than the league, but definitely as much as.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I look at it by making a tennis analogy, in Tennis there are the ATP 1000 tournaments like Indian Wells and Miami which are nice tournaments to win, but the tournaments the top tennis players want to win are the Grand Slams. To my mind anyway, The league title and the European Cup are the two majors. For us the European cup would be the French open, because that’s generally the one title that eludes the top stars for so long - slower surface with less bounce and it takes more out of the player physically (Sampras never won it, Federer won it only because Nadal went out early one year in a shock defeat, and Djokovic like Federer got to his 4th final before winning it)

I’m not sure if I’d want us to win the European Cup more than the league, but definitely as much as.

Already this period represents our longest drought since we won our first title in 1931. Like I said a year ago, there are Arsenal fans who would have been born, grown up and some even married now with a kid who have never witnessed us being crowned champions.

That's not us, it's not our DNA, we are Mr Consistent and have been for generations, so again IMO winning the league and going back to being Mr Consistent should be overarching priority.... especially as this 20 year period has also coincided with being the era we've had the best talents ever and we becoming a truly global brand.

We need our identity back and being known for always coming second and falling short isn't it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Already this period represents our longest drought since we won our first title in 1931. Like I said a year ago, there are Arsenal fans who would have been born, grown up and some even married now with a kid who have never witnessed us being crowned champions.

That's not us, it's not our DNA, we are Mr Consistent and have been for generations, so again IMO winning the league and going back to being Mr Consistent should be overarching priority.... especially as this 20 year period has also coincided with being the era we've had the best talents ever and we becoming a truly global brand.

We need our identity back and being known for always coming second and falling short isn't it.

I’m not saying we couldn’t have done better but do you not think that’s partly attributable to the financial doping that’s been going on in football in the last twenty years. Wenger wasn’t the best tactician but I’m fairly confident without that he had another league title or two in him.

Don’t get me wrong I really want a league title, and I do think we’ve gone too long without one. But just not to the point where if we won the European cup but not the league I’d consider it a sackable offence. With that kind of mentality, no coach would want to come here

[Marc Overmars]

I’d say I currently want the CL more than a league title, simply because we’ve never done it before and it would get a huge and quite frankly embarrassing monkey off our back.

After that though, I’d value league titles above the CL.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Winning the CL would be great and nice, and maybe something to scratch off the bucket list but it's not what we grew up being accustomed to as Arsenal fans.

Look at Liverpool fans when they went on their ridiculous drought and were brought down to earth by SAF, despite Rafa being incredibly successful initially and bringing CL back to them, everyone could see through the hollow celebrations and the fact that they wanted the league trophy more than anything, and the United supporters and SAF kept reminding them of this fact.

10 years ago if I was offered the CL or the league, obviously I would have grabbed the CL, but after a while the heart starts cherishing what it use to, new experiences are nice but fucking hell I miss the old days of being league champions and everyone in the country knowing it.

I watched highlights of Chelsea's last friendly, and at Stamford bridge they introduced themselves as world champions ....I mean I honestly found that laughable as I could tell from the fake cheers that no one believed they were the best team in the world or deserved the title when they couldn't even be described as the best team at home, let alone in Europe.

I badly want that justifiable feeling of calling ourselves the best in the land, and definitely in London again. I'm not even asking us to defend it, something none of us are use to, just fucking go back to the status quo and let one hold their head up high again.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m not saying we couldn’t have done better but do you not think that’s partly attributable to the financial doping that’s been going on in football in the last twenty years. Wenger wasn’t the best tactician but I’m fairly confident without that he had another league title or two in him.

Don’t get me wrong I really want a league title, and I do think we’ve gone too long without one. But just not to the point where if we won the European cup but not the league I’d consider it a sackable offence. With that kind of mentality, no coach would want to come here

It's worked for Chelsea in the past - not that they should be held up as some point of reference, but you get what I mean.
Top managers would still want to come here, but maybe we need some kind of ruthlessness so that Managers don't think they can come here and coast.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’d say I currently want the CL more than a league title, simply because we’ve never done it before and it would get a huge and quite frankly embarrassing monkey off our back.

After that though, I’d value league titles above the CL.

I want both tbh.

When will it be our time when one big trophy isn't enough and the players give their all to win both of them :shrug:

However, I have always said Prem over CL. Prem is our 'bread & butter' and that should be getting conquered first and foremost.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's worked for Chelsea in the past - not that they should be held up as some point of reference, but you get what I mean.
Top managers would still want to come here, but maybe we need some kind of ruthlessness so that Managers don't think they can come here and coast.

Except even Chelsea have never sacked a coach directly after winning the European cup

With De Matteo it was six months after and with Tuchel it was over a year later

[HCZ_Reborn]

I want both tbh.

When will it be our time when one big trophy isn't enough and the players give their all to win both of them :shrug:

However, I have always said Prem over CL. Prem is our 'bread & butter' and that should be getting conquered first and foremost.

There isn’t a club in England for which one of the two prizes isn’t good enough (and that includes City)

You want both? Well yeah of course we all do. But as I said above I don’t think a time will come where we will win either
The league or the European cup and that being deemed insufficient

[Mac76]

3-0 Sesko hatter

[Letters]

I hope we win, tbh.

I don't think we will though. We are better than Utd but we always seem to struggle there for some reason.
We didn't even beat them last season when they were the shittest they've been for decades.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s a strange one, understandable when they were at the top, but our record against them at Old Trafford has always been pretty underwhelming.

Then again when Liverpool were dominating in the 80s they could barely beat United home or away

[HCZ_Reborn]

Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori, Zubimendi, Rice, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Gyokeres

Not much of a surprise. With exception of one or two

[HCZ_Reborn]

United: Bayındir, Yoro, De Ligt, Shaw, Dorgu, Dalot, Casemiro, Mount, Fernandes, Cunha, Mbeumo

[HCZ_Reborn]

No Dowman on the bench which is a pity

No Norgaard either

He’s the only one of our six summer signings not in the squad

Trossard the only player linked with move away from Arsenal to be on the bench

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

United: Bayındir, Yoro, De Ligt, Shaw, Dorgu, Dalot, Casemiro, Mount, Fernandes, Cunha, Mbeumo

How thoroughly... average.

[Mac76]

It'll be enough

Mbeumo will make a fool of Cala all game, just don't get playing him ahead of MLS

[Letters]

How thoroughly... average.

Spurs fan mate just messaged me to say how Arsenal should thump this Utd team. He is correct, but us at Old Trafford…

Probably be a draw

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It'll be enough

Mbeumo will make a fool of Cala all game, just don't get playing him ahead of MLS

Is Timber injured??

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is Timber injured??

No he’s on the bench.

I’m guessing (and this is only a guess) that Arteta wants to create more of an overlap that’s why he’s gone for the fullbacks that are more likely to get forward than stodge up the midfield (although neither are actually fullbacks either so it’s all relative)

I’d have gone for Timber as White has looked poor pre-season

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on Arsenal! :bow:

[Letters]

Come on Arsenal! :bow:

:gp:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nevllle. :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

How thoroughly... average.

They are looking better than us at the moment :(

[McNamara That Ghost...]

CALAFIORI!!!!

[KSE Comedy Club]

Great goal

[Mac76]

Cala scores :lol:

[dazthegooner]

Though they did try to find something wrong with the goal.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Refs a prick

Letting Utd foul with gay abandon

[Mac76]

Shaw should be booked for that

[KSE Comedy Club]

Great play nearly gave away a penalty :doh:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fucking hell Raya, nearly gave it away.

[Mac76]

Raya's been dreadful so far

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Really poor from Odegaard not releasing it early.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli pea shooter.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Lucky there

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dorgu hits the post!

[KSE Comedy Club]

Really poor from Odegaard not releasing it early.

Yep, at least 3 opportunities to pass it. Idiot

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli went for the spectacular and missed it.

Cunha shot, saved.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Our attack is all over the place.

Seriously wtf has Arteta been doing in training???

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Odegaard shot, saved.

[Mac76]

The shooting from both teams has been woeful apart from that Dorgu chance

[Mac76]

Dreadful corner for us all round

[Mac76]

Cala booked, needs to be subbed for MLS at HT

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 HT.

Struggled against Transition FC.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Odegaard is really pissing me off .

His decision making has turned to shit.

Easily put a through ball for Goku to run onto and he puts it so he has to run out wide ffs!!!

[Mac76]

Man Ure much better than us, 1-0 doesn't feel likely to win it

[Marc Overmars]

Happy with the lead of course but it looks like the same old stodge to me.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I fucking hate these half time interviews- how fucking dumb

The players need to be in the dressing room getting a bollocking

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not been pretty to watch, but seeing as we clearly now lack class in the middle, more of these kind of games should be expected.

Luckily we are playing another poor team that doesn't seem up to speed either.

We just need to win this because if we play like this against the other top teams we've got to play soon, it could be a bloodbath.

We need Eze, we need more options in the middle, someone else who is comfortable with carrying the ball and can think. We can't have both the left side of our attack and the middle toothless.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goku has had zero service.
It’s embarrassing - Odegaard can’t decide if he’s a creative midfielder or a no.10.

We need balls through the middle - I haven’t seen one yet

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

To change things around I'd bring on Havertz for Martinelli. MLS might need to come on soon as Califiori playing with a yellow against there most deadly player is asking for trouble. Timber should have started, White is giving us little attacking wise so better to play the better defender.

We need changes early on, please Arteta don't wait for them to score before you start using your head.

[dostoy]

It's going to be very hard to keep a clean sheet here.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Saka has been really poor today BTW.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's going to be very hard to keep a clean sheet here.

Thats why we need to score the 2nd goal now while they keep coming out to chase the equaliser.

[Marc Overmars]

Taking the game into the gutter is what we want to do.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rice. :lol:

On comes Madueke and Havertz for Gyokeres and Martinelli.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Can we fucking get Saka off the field, I am getting sick of this.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goku off - Arteta is a twat.

Coach the players to fucking create chances for him and maybe he’ll score - you fucking imbecile

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

He should have left Gyokores on the field, we need more goals and not sure Noni will be able to put in the same shift defensively that Martinelli did.

Glad Havertz is on, but it shouldn't be for Gyokeres who's been the best of the front 3, who have all been pathetic by the way.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Casemiro off, Ugarte on.

Mount off, Sesko on.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Saka finally gets the ball across the middle and no Gyokores to finish it.

[Marc Overmars]

Sesko on for the inevitable sickener.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Havertz is making me eat my words already....fucking hell we look terrible.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sesko on for the inevitable sickener.

TBH they've been the only side trying to play something attractive , its pretty sad the way we've been outclassed by their front 3.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He should have left Gyokores on the field, we need more goals and not sure Noni will be able to put in the same shift defensively that Martinelli did.

Glad Havertz is on, but it shouldn't be for Gyokeres who's been the best of the front 3, who have all been pathetic by the way.

Too often makes like for like substitutions than in match changes to the tactical formation

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Without Gabriel, we'd have lost by 3 goals or so.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Too often makes like for like substitutions than in match changes to the tactical formation

He will be the creator of his own demise

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a save by Raya!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nwaneri should be on, or Trossard.

Need a footballer out there desperately.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Great save by Raya

[Marc Overmars]

Our lack of threat on the counter is pathetic. Just all about absorbing as much as we can rather than actually trying to score a second.

[dazthegooner]

OBH is on

[KSE Comedy Club]

Our lack of threat on the counter is pathetic. Just all about absorbing as much as we can rather than actually trying to score a second.

It’s embarrassingly bad.

What was the point of our summer window if all Arteta is going to do is play Nick a goal and defend. When you get in the final third just fuck it all up again like you did last season

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rice off, Merino on.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

WTF do we need Merino for....I'm really tired of this manager, this game was quite easy to win.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This was always going to be a difficult game, but Arteta is doing his best to make it harder.

[KSE Comedy Club]

WTF do we need Merino for....I'm really tired of this manager, this game was quite easy to win.

Yep I thought so too.

“We need to change our style to adapt to Gyokores - but I won’t bother and keep playing the same way. Hopefully we can nick a goal there and defend for 80 mins”

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Was it like this at Villa Park last season opening day?

I get the feeling we were a bit better there.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Six added minutes.

[dazthegooner]

6 added minutes hve a feeling the ref goona give them something

[dostoy]

What is it with all these short passes in our own box when under pressure, just boot it away FFS.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Great corner lads.

[KSE Comedy Club]

How the fu k did we get 3 points :shrug:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-1 FT! Horrendous performance, beautiful result!

[Marc Overmars]

Wonderful result.

Stodge FC is definitely still alive.

I do miss when we could actually play football tbh.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

0-1 FT! Horrendous performance, beautiful result!

I'd pay good money never to see a performance like that again .... however I am pretty sure that with this manager, this is what I need to get use to. Just awful.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why is it we can only ever win 1-0 at Old Trafford (in the league) that scoreline now accounts for our last seven wins there going back to 1990 :lol:. We didn’t help ourselves, but a win is a win and it wasn’t exactly the ideal place to start the season even with them being a bit rubbish.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I cant deal with this shit.

I’ve come away feeling pissed off after we’ve got 3 points in a tough game.

This dogshit football has to stop. What did Havertz even do when he came on?

Saka ????

[Marc Overmars]

Raya has earned us a lot of points tbh, he is a top keeper despite the dopey high risk moments.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I feel sorry for Goku.

He came here wanting to score goals for us but it seems Arteta and the team have decided they aren’t going to give him the chance.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

How the fu k did we get 3 points :shrug:

We started worshipping the same god that Pulis does :good:

[Marc Overmars]

It is very impressive that Arteta can consistently get results in these big games thanks to the defence he’s built but our disjointed attack is what will stop us winning the league.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'd pay good money never to see a performance like that again .... however I am pretty sure that with this manager, this is what I need to get use to. Just awful.

Anfield with that. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

We started worshipping the same god that Pulis does :good:

Lucifer?

Excellent. Bring us the title o unspeakable one

[dostoy]

It was an away win in the first game of the season and at very Old Trafford as well.

Odegaard was crap though.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I cant deal with this shit.

I’ve come away feeling pissed off after we’ve got 3 points in a tough game.

This dogshit football has to stop. What did Havertz even do when he came on?

Saka ????

It was disheartening to see how entertaining there front 3 were, despite those attackers facing the best defenders in the land.

Saka couldn't get past Shaw once.

Martinelli is pointless and a glorified LB.

Odegaard continued with his patchy form, dictating silly plays.

And Gyokores, had only one opportunity to show some magic but decided to slip.


We had Trossard, Nwaneri available but failed to use them.

Madueke was totally pointless and will be pointless on the left, something stats had told us ages ago.

If we play like this for the rest of the season, we should put all our effort in the League cup, so Arteta will be able to say he has won another trophy that no one wants.

[Marc Overmars]

Anfield with that. :lol:

Could be Isak’s debut…

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we are being honest, only one side can be completely 100% happy with how they started the season between the three likely title challengers and that’s City. Liverpool very good going forward but when they don’t have the ball anything but.

Us? Well I think the result was more important than the performance, and I think we need more creativity in the team (but that’s nothing I didn’t think before the start of the season). I was mainly bricking it because our defence which had been our saving grace was looking shabby as well, and a bit of rustiness aside we did ok defensively.

I don’t think it’s just a case that we made United look better than they are, I think they are much improved this season and other sides might struggle at OT, so in many ways a good game out of to get out of the way.

We’ve clearly got to play better at Anfield, two reasons…one that we will be punished if we just retreat into our shells totally and second as I’ve said, that defence looks vulnerable and can be exploited (and even by us if we put our minds to it)

I didn’t think we would win today (I hoped we would) and I didn’t think a 1-0 goal lead would be enough. Fortunately wrong on both counts.

[Ollie the Optimist]

it was a crap performance but it was first game of season at a ground where we have horrendous record. ill take a 1-0 win all day long regardless of performance. it didn't help either that Simon Hooper gave united everything as well but let them foul us with no consequence but we should have guessed that after minute one when a clear elbow was ignored.

last season, the big games weren't our issue. we had a good record in those so lets not go overboard on the lack of service for Gyokeres etc. it was the games against the smaller clubs who sat back that we struggled and cost us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

it was a crap performance but it was first game of season at a ground where we have horrendous record. ill take a 1-0 win all day long regardless of performance. it didn't help either that Simon Hooper gave united everything as well but let them foul us with no consequence but we should have guessed that after minute one when a clear elbow was ignored.

last season, the big games weren't our issue. we had a good record in those so lets not go overboard on the lack of service for Gyokeres etc. it was the games against the smaller clubs who sat back that we struggled and cost us.

100% this, especially the bit about the smaller clubs.

[IBK]

Now I've calmed down a bit, I think that our disjointed performance on Sunday had a lot to do with our largely unsuccessful efforts to try to change our style to being a bit more transitional in play. Our possession stats were down, and the number of uncompleted passes in the final third was eye-catching. Our players did not seem to be on the same wavelengths and Gyok was isolated, having to play with his back to goal - which is not his style. Odegard was trying hard, but his passing was off - and he needs to try to re-learn where Saka and Gyok are going to be and to hit spaces, which is very different to what he faced for the majority of last season. We should have been able to play through the middle, but kept giving turnovers - that in turn allowed Manure to play in transition, and they looked far better coached and familiar with doing this - as can be expected. Long balls out from Raya resulted too often in squandering possession and allowing Manure to set up attacks.

In a sense - these problems were understandable. We have replaced key components of the spine of our team - with Zubi and Gyok - and the automatisms that Arteta's play is based on are simply not there yet. Also these 2 players are facing the challenge of having to adapt to a new league - and a trip to Old Trafford is a baptism of fire. It didn't help that Rice and Saka looked undercooked and off the pace. It's no coincidence that we looked brighter when Havertz came on - and I think he would have started if not for his recent injury.

I said before that we looked in 2 minds much of the time and ended up often in the worst of all worlds. Again, it's not surprising that at times we reverted to the familiar approach of getting the ball out wide to limited effect - but the difference was that the control was not there.

My concern is that adapting to a new more progressive transitional style is going to take time that we don't have - particularly with our brutal start to the season. It's a real dilemna for Arteta, because there's pressure on him to make us more direct and less toothless, but his success against the best teams last season relied to a great extent on our control. Does he revert to type against the likes of Liverpool and Newcastle - because they will punish us for certain if we serve up another indecisive performance like Sunday's.

[Mac76]

it was a crap performance but it was first game of season at a ground where we have horrendous record. ill take a 1-0 win all day long regardless of performance. it didn't help either that Simon Hooper gave united everything as well but let them foul us with no consequence but we should have guessed that after minute one when a clear elbow was ignored.

last season, the big games weren't our issue. we had a good record in those so lets not go overboard on the lack of service for Gyokeres etc. it was the games against the smaller clubs who sat back that we struggled and cost us.

Agree it's too soon to say all our performances will be this bad and I fully expected a draw at best

I'm almost hoping this season's a total fail though so they get rid of Arteta

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

it was a crap performance but it was first game of season at a ground where we have horrendous record. ill take a 1-0 win all day long regardless of performance. it didn't help either that Simon Hooper gave united everything as well but let them foul us with no consequence but we should have guessed that after minute one when a clear elbow was ignored.

last season, the big games weren't our issue. we had a good record in those so lets not go overboard on the lack of service for Gyokeres etc. it was the games against the smaller clubs who sat back that we struggled and cost us.

Yup, top post :gp: