Liverpool vs Arsenal - 31.08.2025 - KO 16:30

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s fair to say that unless Liverpool moves very quickly we won’t be having to deal with Isak on Sunday (then again even if they did, he can hardly be match fit with his month long sulk)

It’s a shame Saka is out but then again it’s not really ever been a ground where he’s stood out so maybe not the biggest loss.

With three in three, it’s fair to say Ekitike is their danger man and the one we need to keep on a leash.

As for us, although I like Calafiori id rather MLS deal with Salah than him. I hope we’ve done work in training on transition play as defending and breaking on them will in my view the best way to get three points.

I do think we’ve got a big chance to win and lay down a massive marker, however a draw this early on in the season wouldn’t be a disaster either.


Anyway 3-0 John Barnes hat-trick

[Mac76]

3-0 Etikite hatter

[IBK]

I'm not looking forward to the ineviatable knee jerk reactions - and the writing off of our title hopes - if we lose this. I think we have a decent chance of taking the 3 points, but agree that a draw away at theirs won't be a disaster.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So Arteta is having his presser and apparently he's not going to commit to Odegaard playing on Sunday. Also Sky have pointed out that if we don't play him on Sunday (and obviously say he's still recovering) we can pull him out of the upcoming internationals.

IMO, I'd prefer he doesn't play and gets the rest.

Firstly, Saka isn't playing, and AFAIAC that is the only player Odegaard is able to "unlock" properly. Odegaard without Saka isn't anything special and we all know the game is going to be pretty physical, played at a bruising tempo.

When he was a doubt, I was pretty sure Arteta would start with Merino. I still think that's what he will do. I also believe Martinelli is definitely starting on the left, as he has stats backing up his performances against the Scousers.

Personally I'd prefer Eze starting, especially in the center but I can live with Merino starting as long as Eze is available on the bench, which he will be.


If Odegaard was 100%, then yes, start him... but anything less isn't worth it seeing as he hasn't been doing anything spectacular for quite a while.

[Marc Overmars]

Anfield. Ugh, don’t think any fixture has provided as much misery as this one has.

But we’ve drawn here for the past 3 seasons so you’ve got to think that we can approach this with designs of winning. It’s too early in the season really to have any long lasting impact regardless of the result but a win for us would feel like breaking through the glass ceiling.

[The Wengerbabies]

Must win.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I think this is your best chance to beat us at home for a while. It's still early days so I'm absolutely not casting aspersions about how we will eventually settle, but right now I don't like our general balance and setup. (I actually think this season may turn out to be a better chance for you than last season but we won't go there)

I'd take a draw right now tbh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

2-1 Liverpool I think.

Teams just don't avoid defeat at Anfield four seasons in a row.

[HCZ_Reborn]

2-1 Liverpool I think.

Teams just don't avoid defeat at Anfield four seasons in a row.

I’d argue that with the exception of the game in 2023 where we got mentally affected by the home crowd, we’ve tended to have enough control in matches at Anfield to merit at least a draw. I think we’ve got to get the balance right, if we just sit back and play for a draw I think we will lose

But similarly if both Newcastle and Bournemouth can score twice against Liverpool we’d have to have performed quite badly on the day from an attacking sense not to manage it.

I think we will do very well indeed to keep a clean sheet because unquestionably they are very good going forward.

I think where they could most likely punish us is if we haven’t sorted out our tendency to go to sleep on set pieces, even against Leeds…Strujk I think it was?….had a free header on goal. With two defenders like Gabriel and Saliba that’s really not on.

[Mac76]

I'm not looking forward to the ineviatable knee jerk reactions - and the writing off of our title hopes - if we lose this. I think we have a decent chance of taking the 3 points, but agree that a draw away at theirs won't be a disaster.

This, a draw is at leaast 60% likely I think and would be very happy with that if it came without injuries or stupid referee decisions

A win would be great obvs, but not necessary in a long season to come when we're missing some important players

I think Gyok scoring is also very important, plus a good game for Eze

[dazthegooner]

Anyway 3-0 John Barnes hat-trick[/QUOTE]

Surely a Souness winner just before he’s sent off.

[Letters]

I hope we win, tbh

[Mac76]

I hope we win, tbh

:good:

[Marc Overmars]

If we take the lead I really hope we actually try to play football rather than retreat and just hope to pub it out. I don’t think there’s much chance of keeping Liverpool’s attack out if we turn it into that type of game.

There’s a fair chance we lose regardless but I just don’t want to be licking our wounds thinking we could have done more if we were braver.

[Letters]

2-1 win for Arsenal.

I’m feeling strangely confident

[Mac76]

If we take the lead I really hope we actually try to play football rather than retreat and just hope to pub it out. I don’t think there’s much chance of keeping Liverpool’s attack out if we turn it into that type of game.

There’s a fair chance we lose regardless but I just don’t want to be licking our wounds thinking we could have done more if we were braver.

I don't think we will do that providing we keep 11 men on the pitch, if it gets to 0-1 in the last ten minutes I suspect Arteta will be itching to park the bus but he needs to control himself and try to make sure they keep the ball up the pitch

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They've dropped the VAR official for Anfield after the fuck up in the Chelsea v Fulham game.

[Mac76]

They've dropped the VAR official for Anfield after the fuck up in the Chelsea v Fulham game.

...no doubt replaced by an incompetent from the north-west

[HCZ_Reborn]

Merino starts

I know people don’t like this word, but it has to be said. Arteta really is a total and utter cunt isn’t he?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He has gone full defensive, totally the wrong move here I think.

[dazthegooner]

...no doubt replaced by an incompetent from the north-west

So basically it could be any of them?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool: Alisson, Szoboszlai, Konate, Van Dijk, Kerkez, Gravenberch, Mac Allister, Wirtz, Salah, Ekitike, Gakpo.
Subs: Mamardashvili, Gomez, Endo, Bradley, Chiesa, Jones, Elliott, Robertson, Ngumoha.
Arsenal: Raya, Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori, Zubimendi, Rice, Merino, Madueke, Martinelli, Gyokeres.
Subs: Kepa, Mosquera, Odegaard, Eze, Trossard, Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Dowman, Harriman-Annous.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

That seems surprisingly defensive.

Apart from set pieces, is your plan to counter a la Bournemouth?

[HCZ_Reborn]

That seems surprisingly defensive.

Apart from set pieces, is your plan to counter a la Bournemouth?

Not with that midfield we aren’t

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta you negative loser.

Sooner he leaves this club the better. Putting Eze on the bench even though he’s fully match fit is a pathetic decision.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

No English player in Liverpool's starting XI.

Remember the shit we used to get for that.

[dostoy]

Wait and see what happens.

There are such things as substitutions.

[dostoy]

Oh dear bad news regarding Saliba.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saliba off injured already, fuck sake.

[dostoy]

An already very hard game just got much harder.

[Mac76]

It's a good thing we invested in good defensive cover this summer ;)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli. :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

We are cursed.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alisson saves from Madueke.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mosquera seems overawed by the situation....he needs to effing wake up as Liverpool havn't even started yet.

[dostoy]

Martinelli off and Eze on soon surely.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gravenberch booked, run at him!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rice. :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This is terrible football.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Risky from us. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

At least Madueke has tried to do something.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Merino. :haha:

Embarrassing dive.

[Mac76]

Ref giving most things Liverpool's way ao far

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 HT.

We both deserve points deductions for that.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Result so far reflects the line up.

Midfield is 100% defence and no one feeding the attack.

Need Eze on for Martinelli and Odegaard on for Merino

[Marc Overmars]

Shite but that’s probably good for us.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

0-0 HT.

We both deserve points deductions for that.

:gp:

A quick tweak by bringing in actual footballers like Eze, Nwaneri or even the 15 year old would bring some life in this game and possibly all 3 points....but I already know Arteta is enjoying this game the way it is as I guessed this lineup days ago.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Desperately in need of footballers, can't take another 45 stinkfest like that.

Calafiori our best player so far, Madueke not far off.

The rest. :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Can someone remind me of the player we had that couldn't play a forward pass even if his mother's life depended on it??

Clearly Mosquera is his reincarnation.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Raya saves but spills it, Ekitike offside.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Need to make changes

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Hopefully now that Liverpool have put the ball in net, it'll wake us up and we'll return the favour legally.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Need to make changes

That's obvious to anyone, but Arteta needs Liverpool to score before he starts thinking.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 Liverpool.

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta. :haha:

Can’t pub them all I’m afraid.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This is entirely on Arteta.

Too much of a pussy I’m afraid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We make a team so leaky at the back it’s incontinent look like Fort Knox

[Marc Overmars]

No courage to go and win these kind of games. If it’s not a set piece we’ve got fuck all really.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Is there a reason Arteta doesn't want to take Timber off??

[KSE Comedy Club]

We make a team so leaky at the back it’s incontinent look like Fort Knox

Defence wasn’t the issue.

The line up was all our defence from the start and we’ve not taken advantage of Liverpool’s weakness.

[KSE Comedy Club]

No courage to go and win these kind of games. If it’s not a set piece we’ve got fuck all really.

Exactly. Arteta set the team up to defend instead of attack. Liverpool have done nothing bar a good FK.
This is why we won’t win the PL under him, he doesn’t have faith in the team to take it to them when it counts

[HCZ_Reborn]

Defence wasn’t the issue.

The line up was all our defence from the start and we’ve not taken advantage of Liverpool’s weakness.

I’m saying we’ve made them look solid defensively with our utter timidity

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 FT. We absolutely deserve that.

So negative from Arteta and ceded the initiative.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m saying we’ve made them look solid defensively with our utter timidity

I see, well yes

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arteta is in the mud for me.

We made Liverpool look good when in reality they offered nothing.

Absolute pussy show on our part.
Eze should have started and we should have gone on the attack for most of the game

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know we said this game wouldn’t decide the title but I think it has. Still not convinced Liverpool can retain the title with their back line but we’ve proved I think beyond any doubt that we can’t win the title with this coach. Not because of the result, but it's ridiculous when you have a side that’s conceded 6 goals in last three games and not to at least try and go for it. The only pleasure I can take from today is that with the money we’ve spent, Arteta will be gone by this time next year. The man is a Mourinho lite fraud

[Marc Overmars]

The game panned out exactly how we all felt it would really.

Liverpool didn’t look great either but when you have little interest in actually trying to win the game then you just leave yourself open to anything happening, which today was a worldie of a free kick.

They were absolutely happy to come away with this with a point and that’s the problem with Arteta. Can’t win the league with him, never in a million years.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli was a sham and I don't even think he did much defensively in this one, it was all Calafiori as far as I could tell.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

1-0 FT. We absolutely deserve that.

So negative from Arteta and ceded the initiative.
:gp:

A deserved loss and its funny, but I'm ok we took nothing from this game.

HCZ said something earlier, before we got Eze, that team we had was good enough for Arteta to compete and signing more superstars would make no difference.

When Eze came on in the 70th min, the commentator said something I didn't even realise, this would be Eze's 3rd game against Liverpool in the last 4 outings. In the other 2 he was instrumental in great performances against Liverpool yet our manager chose to leave him on the bench till the 70th minute while the aimless track and field athlete that is Martinelli stunk up the place.

Arteta approached this game not believing he could outplay a team that has conceded 4goals in their last 2 games despite having everything any coach could dream of.

Really pathetic and small minded, and though I'm glad that we've finally got an adequate squad, I would definitely prefer a decent coach, who can play functional attractive football, with a proper winning mindset, take over this bunch.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:gp:

A deserved loss and its funny, but I'm ok we took nothing from this game.

HCZ said something earlier, before we got Eze, that team we had was good enough for Arteta to compete and signing more superstars would make no difference.

When Eze came on in the 70th min, the commentator said something I didn't even realise, this would be Eze's 3rd game against Liverpool in the last 4 outings. In the other 2 he was instrumental in great performances against Liverpool yet our manager chose to leave him on the bench till the 70th minute while the aimless track and field athlete that is Martinelli stunk up the place.

Arteta approached this game not believing he could outplay a team that has conceded 4goals in their last 2 games despite having everything any coach could dream of.

Really pathetic and small minded, and though I'm glad that we've finally got an adequate squad, I would definitely prefer a decent coach with a proper winning mindset to take over this bunch.

Why are you ok that we took nothing from this game?

I mean let’s be fair I want desperately to be wrong about Arteta. I don’t get any joy out of disliking him.

I get no satisfaction in being right about him, because Arsenal winning the title is more important to me than being right that Arteta is a putz

[dostoy]

Who?

Who would you want to replace Arteta if he is sacked tomorrow?

Can all the people who want Arteta out please answer the question with a name.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Why are you ok that we took nothing from this game?

I mean let’s be fair I want desperately to be wrong about Arteta. I don’t get any joy out of disliking him.

I get no satisfaction in being right about him, because Arsenal winning the title is more important to me than being right that Arteta is a putz

He has to fucking change his mindset!

If we'd snatched a draw he'd feel the way he set out was proper.

It annoys me that I can predict him so accurately that I knew this was the lineup he would play since Thursday...and I posted about it.

Once the game started and Liverpool were absolutely ordinary any decent coach would have been strategising how to win it , let alone one who needs to convince his troops that they are the best after coming 2nd 3 years in a row!

Arteta is a fucking clown and he deserves what's going to come to him after this game.

Despite that, I hope everyone laughing at him for the next week or so, gets him to change and grow a pair

[Mac76]

Terrible starting lineup, no Nwaneri or Eze = no creativity, subs too late, Liverpool had control by then and where the fuck was Leo, the guy's scored a hatter at Anfield and doesn't get on the pitch...

[Mac76]

The game panned out exactly how we all felt it would really.

Liverpool didn’t look great either but when you have little interest in actually trying to win the game then you just leave yourself open to anything happening, which today was a worldie of a free kick.

They were absolutely happy to come away with this with a point and that’s the problem with Arteta. Can’t win the league with him, never in a million years.

That last line is exactly it, he just can't do it, no guts or positivity

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Who?

Who would you want to replace Arteta if he is sacked tomorrow?

Can all the people who want Arteta out please answer the question with a name.

Please don't start this shit again, it's to early for this silliness...Arteta effed up and that's it.

His smalltime mindset has been hindering us for years after a billion quid spent.

He is not irreplaceable, and if he has a seizure now, someone else will effing do the job ....and hopefully much better.

[dostoy]

Please don't start this shit again, it's to early for this silliness...Arteta effed up and that's it.

His smalltime mindset has been hindering us for years after a billion quid spent.

He is not irreplaceable, and if he has a seizure now, someone else will effing do the job ....and hopefully much better.

Who though?

Its a simple question isn't it.

Can we get one name?

[Marc Overmars]

Who though?

Its a simple question isn't it.

Can we get one name?

Both things can be said though.

Personally I’m very open to moving on from Arteta but I couldn’t really tell you who’d I’d want to replace him. All I know is what I see from this very expensively assembled squad and that’s a painful style of football devoid of any courage. We’re supposed to be trying to win a league title but we’re relying on physicality and set pieces to give us the edge. It’s so transparent.

We will be having the same conversation after our trip to St James’ Park in a few weeks.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The name is unimportant. Who was Slot (who is Slot) a bald Dutchman who had only coached in Dutch football, now he’s an English premier league title winner, and likely going to retain the title because Guardiola looks a busted flush.

We always had a reputation for being soft and I’ll give Arteta credit, we aren’t soft anymore. But things have gone too far the other way.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He has to fucking change his mindset!

If we'd snatched a draw he'd feel the way he set out was proper.

It annoys me that I can predict him so accurately that I knew this was the lineup he would play since Thursday...and I posted about it.

Once the game started and Liverpool were absolutely ordinary any decent coach would have been strategising how to win it , let alone one who needs to convince his troops that they are the best after coming 2nd 3 years in a row!

Arteta is a fucking clown and he deserves what's going to come to him after this game.

Despite that, I hope everyone laughing at him for the next week or so, gets him to change and grow a pair

Did Wenger change his ways when we lost because we were too open in games ?

This is who Arteta is

[HCZ_Reborn]

Terrible starting lineup, no Nwaneri or Eze = no creativity, subs too late, Liverpool had control by then and where the fuck was Leo, the guy's scored a hatter at Anfield and doesn't get on the pitch...

I did think for a second…hang on when has Trossard ever scored a hatter for us, let alone at Anfield

But then realised that was for Brighton

But yes I think everyone can agree, we played far too negatively and got punished for it

[dostoy]

I can think of a name.

Why is it so difficult for someone, anyone, to come up with a name?

There would have to be a replacement if Arteta went so why can't someone just name someone who they would prefer to be Arsenal manager instead of Arteta.

Why is everybody terrified to do it?

[Letters]

2-1 win for Arsenal.

I’m feeling strangely confident

Well. I got the 1 bit right :cool:


:getcoat:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Iraola tbh

But he'll be at another club before we get there.

[Letters]

I can think of a name.

Why is it so difficult for someone, anyone, to come up with a name?

There would have to be a replacement if Arteta went so why can't someone just name someone who they would prefer to be Arsenal manager instead of Arteta.

Why is everybody terrified to do it?

I honestly don't follow football enough to really know all the managers. I'm always a bit scared of the idea of us changing managers. But the board have completely backed Arteta in the transfer market, we finally have the squad depth to challenge on all fronts. If he can't land a major trophy with this squad then he needs to go. Obviously it's early enough in the season that today isn't a catastrophe, but I was hoping to a statement win and strangely confident of getting one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can think of a name.

Why is it so difficult for someone, anyone, to come up with a name?

There would have to be a replacement if Arteta went so why can't someone just name someone who they would prefer to be Arsenal manager instead of Arteta.

Why is everybody terrified to do it?

Because it’s not relevant

But if you want names, here off the top of my head

Nagelsmann
Luis Enrique
Iraola
Klopp
De La Fuente

[Letters]

Because it’s not relevant
It is a bit relevant. As I always say, the issue with Brexit was it was like saying you want to move house but no-one knew where to. This is arguably the same.
But if Arteta can't deliver a big trophy with this squad despite the way the board have backed him in the transfer market then he never will and we need to find someone who can.

[dostoy]

It's the most relevant thing.

The one I was thinking of is not on that list.

There is no chance of Klopp.

[dostoy]

I was think of Conte.

I know I know he is ex Chelsea and turds but the man is a winner.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Conte managed Chelsea and Tottenham so he can get fucked for that alone.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Given how relatively easily Newcastle and Bournemouth were able to get at us, it was a surprise you didn't go for it more, earlier. There really wasn't much in the way of counters it was pretty much purely set pieces, which we dealt with well.
Absolutely turgid game, which I'm actually quite pleased about. I think Jones coming on (MacAllister obviously wasn't anywhere near fit) tipped the game in our favour even if it did take an incredible goal to win it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I can think of a name.

Why is it so difficult for someone, anyone, to come up with a name?

There would have to be a replacement if Arteta went so why can't someone just name someone who they would prefer to be Arsenal manager instead of Arteta.

Why is everybody terrified to do it?

If I recollect correctly, when you came out with this outburst more than a year ago, options I mentioned like Alonso and Ancelotti were still available and I pointed them out.

Then out of no where, Liverpool bring in a nobody in Slot and they win the league.

Currently Cesc is doing a great job at Como, playing attacking football on a shoestring budget and just recently turned down the Inter job.

I am not saying we should sack Arteta now, he's spent a billion and needs to see this shit out, for at least this season.

But it is an extremely cowardly and dishonest argument to make that there is nobody out there when you are not even looking and newbies are winning things all over the place

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's the most relevant thing.

The one I was thinking of is not on that list.

There is no chance of Klopp.

It isn’t, a coach/manager has far more power to fuck things up than actually improve things.

Arteta as I’ve said has done a great job in making us tough to beat, but we’ve lost the fewest games of any team over the past three years and it’s got us fuck all anywhere. He isn’t a magician, he’s bought players that are very strong mentally and good at defending…but looking at how clueless Martinelli looked today shows that attacking players are left to their own devices. Martinelli is not a bad player, but his decision making is terrible…always playing with his head down and running into blind alleys.

We need someone who can marry our defensive solidity with creativity. There was none today, and in fact when was the last time you saw any attacking player trying to be spontaneous

[dostoy]

If I recollect correctly, when you came out with this outburst more than a year ago, options I mentioned like Alonso and Ancelotti were still available and I pointed them out.

Then out of no where, Liverpool bring in a nobody in Slot and they win the league.

Currently Cesc is doing a great job at Como, playing attacking football on a shoestring budget and just recently turned down the Inter job.

I am not saying we should sack Arteta now, he's spent a billion and needs to see this shit out, for at least this season.

But it is an extremely cowardly and dishonest argument to make that there is nobody out there when you are not even looking and newbies are winning things all over the place

Who said there is nobody out there?

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli has regressed into a really average player. Quite sad to see really.

Absolutely should be sold to the highest bidder.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Did Wenger change his ways when we lost because we were too open in games ?

This is who Arteta is

Arteta is no Wenger, and I mean this in where they were in life when they joined us.

Arteta has won little of note, has achieved nothing spectacular and has not faced the adversity of losing his job from a high of everyone singing your praise...all these things AW went through before he joined us.

I don't believe Arteta is set in his ways, he's still looking for a winning formula and is yet to set himself an identity.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Who said there is nobody out there?

Then my bad because I thought that was what you were implying like you did a year or so ago when you posted the exact same words after something similar like this occurred.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta is no Wenger, and I mean this in where they were in life when they joined us.

Arteta has won little of note, has achieved nothing spectacular and has not faced the adversity of losing his job from a high of everyone singing your praise...all these things AW went through before he joined us.

I don't believe Arteta is set in his ways, he's still looking for a winning formula and is yet to set himself an identity.

You look at the amount we’ve spent on defenders and you don’t think Arteta has an identity

He’s not green behind the ears anymore, he’s been with us for almost six years…this idea that he’s finding his way is for the birds

Controlling matches and throttling the life out of opponents is his identity


But don’t listen to me, listen to Arteta himself. Listen to his post match comments and tell me if you think he regrets how he approached the game.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I can think of a name.

Why is it so difficult for someone, anyone, to come up with a name?

There would have to be a replacement if Arteta went so why can't someone just name someone who they would prefer to be Arsenal manager instead of Arteta.

Why is everybody terrified to do it?
Because it isn’t up to fans to decide who should take over.

That doesn’t mean we can’t all see that Arteta isn’t the guy.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I honestly don't follow football enough to really know all the managers. I'm always a bit scared of the idea of us changing managers. But the board have completely backed Arteta in the transfer market, we finally have the squad depth to challenge on all fronts. If he can't land a major trophy with this squad then he needs to go. Obviously it's early enough in the season that today isn't a catastrophe, but I was hoping to a statement win and strangely confident of getting one.

Me too, I thought we would break our hoodoo today and win at Anfield.


But as soon as I saw that line up, I knew Arteta wasn’t the guy.

He is a loser when it comes to what is required to win the big ones

[Letters]

Conte managed Chelsea and Tottenham so he can get fucked for that alone.

:lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You look at the amount we’ve spent on defenders and you don’t think Arteta has an identity

He’s not green behind the ears anymore, he’s been with us for almost six years…this idea that he’s finding his way is for the birds

Controlling matches and throttling the life out of opponents is his identity


But don’t listen to me, listen to Arteta himself. Listen to his post match comments and tell me if you think he regrets how he approached the game.

I might have to concede that you might be right here..... but I need to take sometime and cool off before I go listening to the clown's side of the story.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arteta is no Wenger, and I mean this in where they were in life when they joined us.

Arteta has won little of note, has achieved nothing spectacular and has not faced the adversity of losing his job from a high of everyone singing your praise...all these things AW went through before he joined us.

I don't believe Arteta is set in his ways, he's still looking for a winning formula and is yet to set himself an identity.

That’s not true.

Artetas identity is making us defend well.

That’s it.

He is not the guy

[Marc Overmars]

Me too, I thought we would break out hoodoo today and win at Anfield.


But as soon as I saw that line up, I knew Arteta wasn’t the guy.

He is a loser when it comes to what is required to win the big ones

Didn’t see why people felt today would finally be the day for us. We literally got outplayed by a terrible team 2 weeks ago because we had nothing to offer up front.

Eze is really the last hope because I don’t see anything changing with this team and Arteta.

The whole thing stinks. Champagne Stoke indeed.

[dostoy]

Conte managed Chelsea and Tottenham so he can get fucked for that alone.

Would you rather win with Conte or finish second with Arteta?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Didn’t see why people felt today would finally be the day for us. We literally got outplayed by a terrible team 2 weeks ago because we had nothing to offer up front.

Eze is really the last hope because I don’t see anything changing with this team and Arteta.

The whole thing stinks. Champagne Stoke indeed.

It wasn’t about us, I thought Liverpool were so shit defensively

True Slot knows that and Liverpool largely weren’t too adventurous. The point is that if Bournemouth and Newcastle could score twice against Liverpool it should have been possible for us.

Arteta was hoping to get a draw and maybe pub a win.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Would you rather win with Conte or finish second with Arteta?

I'd rather eat my own ass.

[Letters]

Didn’t see why people felt today would finally be the day for us. We literally got outplayed by a terrible team 2 weeks ago because we had nothing to offer up front.

Eze is really the last hope because I don’t see anything changing with this team and Arteta.

The whole thing stinks. Champagne Stoke indeed.

For me the signing of Eze, on top of the already excellent transfer window, was making me feel pretty positive. As I said in the injuries thread, it's nice to be in a position where Havertz can need surgery which will keep him out for a couple of months and feel we still have plenty of options up front. We have the squad to challenge on all fronts now, I reckon. It seems we don't have the manager to but I guess we need to get a bit further in to the season before committing mass suicide.

[dostoy]

I'd rather eat my own ass.

There you have it ladies and gents.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There you have it ladies and gents.

Why because one coach who you happen to rate is unpalatable to someone else?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

There you have it ladies and gents.

I literally suggested a manager. :lol:

Why would I want Conte football.

[dazthegooner]

Very disapointed with the performance and result again the starting line-up was too defensive minded we have the players to attack to why not use them?

[dostoy]

Why because one coach who you happen to rate is unpalatable to someone else?

No

It was just a stupid answer.

[dostoy]

I literally suggested a manager. :lol:

Why would I want Conte football.

None of it is going to happen anyway.

Arteta is here for a few years yet.

[Marc Overmars]

For me the signing of Eze, on top of the already excellent transfer window, was making me feel pretty positive. As I said in the injuries thread, it's nice to be in a position where Havertz can need surgery which will keep him out for a couple of months and feel we still have plenty of options up front. We have the squad to challenge on all fronts now, I reckon. It seems we don't have the manager to but I guess we need to get a bit further in to the season before committing mass suicide.

There are many reasons to be positive, the transfer window has indeed been very fruitful and our squad looks quite strong. Which makes it all the more annoying that our coach who’s received the kind of backing that most coaches could only dream about is so predictable and never brave enough in these type of games. If we had got our noses in front we could all guarantee it would have been a backs against the wall job.

Even against Leeds last week it was horribly stale until we scored from a set piece to open the game up.

We’ve got a decent chance of achieving something meaningful with this squad but the football is awful.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

No

It was just a stupid answer.

It was a stupid question.

[HCZ_Reborn]

None of it is going to happen anyway.

Arteta is here for a few years yet.

You think?….with the money he’s been given to spend?

[Letters]

You think?….with the money he’s been given to spend?

One would think that if Arteta doesn’t deliver a big trophy this season then the board will hold him to account given the backing they’ve given him.

[dostoy]

You think?….with the money he’s been given to spend?

Yep

[dostoy]

It was a stupid question.

Would you rather win or finish second is not a stupid question.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Would you rather win or finish second is not a stupid question.

Last time he was in the league he finished fourth, why are you guaranteeing me a win.

[dostoy]

Last time he was in the league he finished fourth, why are you guaranteeing me a win.

There are no guarantees.

Do you want Arteta out or not?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

There you have it ladies and gents.

At a point, when we were discussing who could take over from Wenger, I suggested Jose, because AFAIWC, we deserved a coach that would win, and Mourinho's brand of football guaranteed that at the time.

Then we eventually went with Emery, and I still insist, the brand of attacking football we played in the early months of Emery was mesmerising and a welcome relief from AW's stale attempts to copy tippy tappy.

Obviously, then came the later stages where we couldn't defend any lead and eventually this Rookie came onboard.


At a time I would have been ok with Mourino or Conte's boring style....but we've now had Arteta, who is a poor knockoff.

I fully agree with Maccy, that winning at all costs isn't everything. Once we divorce Arteta, we deserve something positive.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

There are no guarantees.

Do you want Arteta out or not?

I want him to be better really, more trusting and braver.

The chances are that is not going to happen, so he probably should go and I think there are others who would do better in the ways I want right now.

Conte is not one of those though.

[dostoy]

I want him to be better really, more trusting and braver.

The chances are that is not going to happen, so he probably should go and I think there are others who would do better in the ways I want right now.

Conte is not one of those though.

Ok

Who then

[dostoy]

They are not going to sack Arteta and get the Bournemouth manager.

We will have to wait and see as always.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They are not going to sack Arteta and get the Bournemouth manager.

We will have to wait and see as always.

They aren't going to sack Arteta. That's obvious.

Glasner is another one that should be given serious consideration.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

But don’t listen to me, listen to Arteta himself. Listen to his post match comments and tell me if you think he regrets how he approached the game.

Can't believe the clown is specifically mentioning Eze, probably would have blamed Dowman too for not simulating another penalty if he'd brought him on for long enough.


He told Sky Sports: "I'm very proud of my players, I think both teams elevated the game to a level that there was no margins between the two and very little happens, a lot of action in many areas, not that much in the boxes.

"It was going to be decided in two possible actions, an individual error or a magic moment and it was decided in a magic moment.

"You cannot dominate here for 95 minutes, it's impossible and you're going to go through those moments and it was a moment when our 'keeper had the ball in his hands.

"Then we didn't have any sequences of play afterwards but we navigated without conceding anything. But you need to find a way to win these big matches.

"You have to put the ball in the back of the net when you have it, we were much better than last year when we drew the game.

"Today when we have three, four or five situations inside the box, one vs one, when Eze is completely through just to finish the action. You have to put those balls in the back of the net if you want to win the game."

[Letters]

Ok

Who then

I do think this is an important question.
But I don't think anyone has to have a ready answer to it to want Arteta out.
As someone else said, we're not going to get to pick the new manager anyway. The board have backed Arteta massively, we now have a squad which should be able to challenge on all fronts. If Arteta can't deliver a major trophy with this squad then we surely need to find someone who can. There are no guarantees, but every season adds to the evidence that it's not going to be Arteta who lands our next title.

[Mac76]

A small thing perhaps but while I do rate Dowman, bringing a 15yo on in a game as big as that was pathetic and he rightly got made to look like a schoolboy by Kerkez

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A small thing perhaps but while I do rate Dowman, bringing a 15yo on in a game as big as that was pathetic and he rightly got made to look like a schoolboy by Kerkez

I was going to say the same thing earlier but wanted to see their take on MOTD first, which was non existent.

Honestly I do try to give Arteta the benefit of doubt and I want to really believe he has a plan and knows what he's doing, but that decision really pissed me off and made me feel like we've got a cynical human being in charge of our club.

Nwaneri was on the bench, Trossard was on the bench.

Established internationals like Gyokores and Madueke were being bullied off the ball, and the few times they got a sniff, they folded under that atmosphere......but he expected a 15 year old to come on and do what exactly? I mean what is someone who has not had an EPL shot on target suppose to do in that atmosphere??

Well if you ask me I think he was hoping for another pity party and probably a soft penalty.... whatever his thinking, it suggests to me he had no intention of winning that game honourably or properly.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Can't believe the clown is specifically mentioning Eze, probably would have blamed Dowman too for not simulating another penalty if he'd brought him on for long enough.

That’s a further embarrassing statement from him after an embarrassing management performance.

Eze & Odegaard should have started.

He is acting as if two giants went at it in fisticuffs and a draw was the only conceivable result, but one gets gifted a bat to knock the other out.
Fact is Liverpool were shit and instead of using that to our advantage, he set up ready to make excuses when it all went wrong.

I’m convinced he played hoping to draw and maybe nick a win.

He’s done for me I’m afraid.
Today’s game confirmed he is a loser.

[dazthegooner]

Well the spud press (media) are saying that they were justified in not signing Eze after one match :sarcy:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cult of Arteta idiots arguing that we had players out and Liverpool didn’t play adventurously either

The reason Liverpool played the way they did is because they know their own vulnerabilities and conceded four goals

The reason we played the way we did is Arteta

[Marc Overmars]

I think Arteta has intentions to win but the problem is that he believes the only way we can possibly win is to play this way.

Even prime Mourinho had elite attackers who could counter and transition very quickly. What Arteta brings to these games is far worse and worthy of ridicule. It’s only ever about nullifying and using physicality and set pieces to bludgeon our way through.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think Arteta has intentions to win but the problem is that he believes the only way we can possibly win is to play this way.

Even prime Mourinho had elite attackers who could counter and transition very quickly. What Arteta brings to these games is far worse and worthy of ridicule. It’s only ever about nullifying and using physicality and set pieces to bludgeon our way through.

It also seems he believes the only way to score a goal is to take advantage of a mistake from the opposition or a moment of brilliance, at least he repeated that refrain shortly after the match.

This is something that baffles me as it is extremely unPeplike. That's why sometimes I argue I'm not sure he has an identity and knows how he wants his team to play, and by "play" I don't mean defend, but go after a game, score and win (the aim of the game, let's not forget)

It's really a shame that after six years, he still can't think of a way to actually play the game in a manner that leads to these outcomes instead of being a parasite that continually capitalises on people's mistakes.

No matter how many trophies he wins (or not in this case), no one is ever going to remember that kind of football.... at least not for the right reasons.

[Letters]

I think Arteta has intentions to win but the problem is that he believes the only way we can possibly win is to play this way.

Even prime Mourinho had elite attackers who could counter and transition very quickly. What Arteta brings to these games is far worse and worthy of ridicule. It’s only ever about nullifying and using physicality and set pieces to bludgeon our way through.

And maybe you could justify that last season when we didn't have a striker worthy of the name. But now we do. But if they're not getting service then they're not going to be effective.

[IBK]

Part of me wants to say that some of the comments on here are a bit knee jerky after 3 games. We are several first team players down already; this was probably the most difficult fixture in the league, and a close tie was decided by one moment of absolute magic from Szoboszlai. Apart from that we made Liverpool, and their much vaunted attack, look pretty ordinary.

But there's no doubt that this was very disappointing, more so because this game encapsulated why there is a justified feeling that Arteta will not take us from nearly men to champions. This was a check list of what has held us back (and I fear will continue to do so).

- Safety first approach and team selection.
- Injuries to key players (seriously, WTF is going on here? - with Havertz; Saka; White; Saliba; Norgaard all down before or within 3 games of the season staring and Odegard half fit).
- Subs made too late.
- Undone by a moment of brilliance (more on this below).
- Playing with the handbrake on.

In an effort to be fair/measured - while I was disappointed but not surprised to see Merino in for Odegard, I can see the logic of being conservative starting at Anfield. I thought we were solid in the first half and it made sense to assess their threat and not do anything silly.

What frustrated me was that having seen that they weren't offering much, the manager did not change things up much earlier than he did. With the attacking options now at our disposal, it became pretty clear in the second half that Arteta was basically playing for a draw. Like for like subs (and I put Eze on for the lamentable Martinelli and Dowman on for Madueke in this category) rely on individuals to produce something rather than doing something different with the system to change up what was a pretty ponderous performance going forwards. I think that the 'hope for a goal but happy with a draw' approach was summed up with Dowman coming on. As much as we are high on Max - tasking a 15 year old to produce the goal we needed was very strange. Our defenders played well and Liverpool's forward line was quiet. Our subs should have been made earlier, and we should have taken the game to them.

And this is the rub. We look like a conservative team playing percentages and more interested in stats than actually putting the ball in the net. We can point all we like to Liverpool not looking that great, and being lucky, but that is what champions do. they find a way to win when not playing well, and have individuals who step up to produce when needed. We don't (at least if our set pieces are off). There is something about Liverpool scoring late winners and worldies out of nothing. It's an attitude and a self-belief, and I can't help but feel that our whole approach to this game ran counter to this. Let's face it - we rarely do either.

One or two people on here questioned whether more signings would fundamentally alter what is our manager's Achilles heel. It's still very early in the season, but this question is already raising its head.

[HCZ_Reborn]

A very sober analysis. To sum up my feelings, the shame yesterday wasn’t in losing…..that was a worldie strike, I don’t think Raya could have saved it simply because of where it lands in the top left hand corner of the net.

The shame was seeing that Liverpool were vulnerable yet still playing for a draw and going safety first. No one thinks we should have gone Gung Ho, I think that would have been stupid.

Whilst I think sky sports pundits are full of shit, they did state the obvious which is that our attacks are robotic. No one wants to try anything individualist, we’ve got Martinelli who I don’t know what’s wrong with him….his position is under threat as it should be and instead of thriving under the pressure his confidence is gone.

The joke is we are high risk when trying to play out from the back, but we often don’t have players making runs into the box so that even when the wingers do get in behind there’s no one to pull it back to.

The galling thing is Arteta simply doesn’t accept this, he states that we went to Anfield trying to win. I simply don’t know how he can say this.

[Marc Overmars]

Only positives I take from this are that Madueke and Mosquera appeared to be capable replacements for Saka and Saliba.

35 games to go so not exactly devastated about the result, just fed up with this coach and his lack of imagination.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You guys summed it up perfectly.

No one feels like the season is over because of the loss, it's the manner of it that's upsetting, the refusal to rise to the big occasion and be brave once again (especially since few expected us to win anyway)

If Klopp is still interested in management, it would be quite an interesting prospect to have him manage a team brimming with so much potential.

It's a real shame Arteta doesn't understand how good he has it here, but really we shouldn't be shocked as he's never managed a modern football club (what I mean is he's only seen the stability of Citeh and Arsenal and we all know that 99.9% of clubs do not operate like this.... just look at what Nuno is going through with Edu).

[KSE Comedy Club]

Part of me wants to say that some of the comments on here are a bit knee jerky after 3 games. We are several first team players down already; this was probably the most difficult fixture in the league, and a close tie was decided by one moment of absolute magic from Szoboszlai. Apart from that we made Liverpool, and their much vaunted attack, look pretty ordinary.

But there's no doubt that this was very disappointing, more so because this game encapsulated why there is a justified feeling that Arteta will not take us from nearly men to champions. This was a check list of what has held us back (and I fear will continue to do so).

- Safety first approach and team selection.
- Injuries to key players (seriously, WTF is going on here? - with Havertz; Saka; White; Saliba; Norgaard all down before or within 3 games of the season staring and Odegard half fit).
- Subs made too late.
- Undone by a moment of brilliance (more on this below).
- Playing with the handbrake on.

In an effort to be fair/measured - while I was disappointed but not surprised to see Merino in for Odegard, I can see the logic of being conservative starting at Anfield. I thought we were solid in the first half and it made sense to assess their threat and not do anything silly.

What frustrated me was that having seen that they weren't offering much, the manager did not change things up much earlier than he did. With the attacking options now at our disposal, it became pretty clear in the second half that Arteta was basically playing for a draw. Like for like subs (and I put Eze on for the lamentable Martinelli and Dowman on for Madueke in this category) rely on individuals to produce something rather than doing something different with the system to change up what was a pretty ponderous performance going forwards. I think that the 'hope for a goal but happy with a draw' approach was summed up with Dowman coming on. As much as we are high on Max - tasking a 15 year old to produce the goal we needed was very strange. Our defenders played well and Liverpool's forward line was quiet. Our subs should have been made earlier, and we should have taken the game to them.

And this is the rub. We look like a conservative team playing percentages and more interested in stats than actually putting the ball in the net. We can point all we like to Liverpool not looking that great, and being lucky, but that is what champions do. they find a way to win when not playing well, and have individuals who step up to produce when needed. We don't (at least if our set pieces are off). There is something about Liverpool scoring late winners and worldies out of nothing. It's an attitude and a self-belief, and I can't help but feel that our whole approach to this game ran counter to this. Let's face it - we rarely do either.

One or two people on here questioned whether more signings would fundamentally alter what is our manager's Achilles heel. It's still very early in the season, but this question is already raising its head.

See, for me, that is where the analysis goes wrong - being undone 'by a moment of brilliance'

I didn't watch two teams go toe to toe in a fight for PL title credentials. I saw a bang average Liverpool side playing against an inexplicably defensive Arsenal side.
I can understand it if both teams were giving it their all to try and win, but in the end 'a moment of brilliance' was the difference maker.

But it didn't play out that way, we turned up and set up like a weaker team, worse than underdogs, like a lesser side.

We've spent a billion quid and now have strength and better players in most areas, and Arteta sets us up like a flood barrier, hoping to stem the flow of the tide.

Had he started with a normal attacking team, with Eze on the LW and Ode or Nwaneri instead of Merino - we might have actually been 1-3 goals up before that 'moment of brilliance' ever had a chance to have an effect on the outcome.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A very sober analysis. To sum up my feelings, the shame yesterday wasn’t in losing…..that was a worldie strike, I don’t think Raya could have saved it simply because of where it lands in the top left hand corner of the net.

The shame was seeing that Liverpool were vulnerable yet still playing for a draw and going safety first. No one thinks we should have gone Gung Ho, I think that would have been stupid.

Whilst I think sky sports pundits are full of shit, they did state the obvious which is that our attacks are robotic. No one wants to try anything individualist, we’ve got Martinelli who I don’t know what’s wrong with him….his position is under threat as it should be and instead of thriving under the pressure his confidence is gone.

The joke is we are high risk when trying to play out from the back, but we often don’t have players making runs into the box so that even when the wingers do get in behind there’s no one to pull it back to.

The galling thing is Arteta simply doesn’t accept this, he states that we went to Anfield trying to win. I simply don’t know how he can say this.

He's either completely delusional or a complete bullshitter.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A.R.T.E.T.A.

A. Rookie. That. Embarrasses. The. Arsenal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If I’m honest, I am absolutely devastated by yesterdays loss and I do think it means our title chances are gone

Liverpool were there for the taking yesterday we simply had to go out there and do it. Like last season we can blame injuries and refereeing decisions all we want but ultimately Liverpool won because we are a robotic team under a control freak coach

I don’t agree even that a new coach has something good to work with

Zubimendi for me can’t cut it in the premier league, neither can Gyokeres, Arteta has ruined Martinelli, he’s ruined Odegaard and he’s destined to do the same to Saka.

We all believed there was a pay off from this miserable, heartless and boring football we play but there isn’t. Even Atletico Madrid have had something to show for it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If I’m honest, I am absolutely devastated by yesterdays loss and I do think it means our title chances are gone

Liverpool were there for the taking yesterday we simply had to go out there and do it. Like last season we can blame injuries and refereeing decisions all we want but ultimately Liverpool won because we are a robotic team under a control freak coach

I don’t agree even that a new coach has something good to work with

Zubimendi for me can’t cut it in the premier league, neither can Gyokeres, Arteta has ruined Martinelli, he’s ruined Odegaard and he’s destined to do the same to Saka.

We all believed there was a pay off from this miserable, heartless and boring football we play but there isn’t. Even Atletico Madrid have had something to show for it

I generally agree with the sentiment of Arteta destroying the team slowly but disagree with the part in bold.

IMO we just need slight adjustments to get us playing meaningful (the keyword) attractive football.

Firstly, Odegaard, the main architect of our1000 pointless passes, needs to be made a bit part player. Play Eze instead and let him dictate a more purposeful and less complicated style of going forward.

Martinelli has no business starting under this manager again. Trossard/Havertz/Jesus in that priority.

As for our CM, you've got a point that Rice and Zubi don't compliment themselves properly and Arteta has weakened us their with his recruitment. We should have gone for someone in the mold of Partey instead of Norgaard and probably stuck with that Lucien Agoume guy we were looking at from Sevilla.

However, both players are quality and manageable for now though it is a glaring defensive weakness as in the past 3 games we've seen teams running straight through the middle like there is no one there.

Anyway, thankfully the defence is solid and will bail them out most of the time.

So in short, its all about our attack and encouraging constructive imagination and not ridiculous contrived plays conjured up at the drop of a hat hoping to mask our ultimate aim, which is getting the ball to Saka (or whoever his standin happens to be).

This "hope for the best "approach, or in Arteta's cynical words "a moment of magic", needs to stop. We've got to be purposeful moving the ball forward and allow everyone to contribute properly to scoring goals and creating threats.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW I think being brought down to earth this early, and not having red cards, injuries or referee decisions to hide behind is a good thing.

If the manager is up to the task, which I'm pretty sure he isn't, he'll use this week or so to listen to the whispers and change things before it's too late.

If he doesn't, the noise and whispers will also give Josh enough time to consider talking to his dad and looking at sound alternatives.

[Letters]

Part of me wants to say that some of the comments on here are a bit knee jerky after 3 games.
Are you new here?


We can point all we like to Liverpool not looking that great, and being lucky, but that is what champions do. they find a way to win when not playing well
One could argue that's exactly what we did at Old Trafford.

I'm disappointed that Arteta's first thought seems to be that this was a game we must not lose rather than must win.
This early in the season there are no must win games, that's why I was always OK with us having a tough start to the season. You wouldn't want this set of fixtures in the run in when, if you're in the mix, games are absolutely must win. That said, a statement win here would have been a massive boost.

I don't think we should throw in the towel this early, that would be silly. And I think HCZ writing off players this early is silly too - Gyökeres scored an excellent goal just last week.
I've never been sure Arteta can get us over the line in terms of landing the biggest trophies. I always thought this season was his last chance to prove me wrong. With the transfer window we've had it definitely is. Surely the board will lose patience with him if he still can't deliver after the way they've backed him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Are you new here?


One could argue that's exactly what we did at Old Trafford.

I'm disappointed that Arteta's first thought seems to be that this was a game we must not lose rather than must win.
This early in the season there are no must win games, that's why I was always OK with us having a tough start to the season. You wouldn't want this set of fixtures in the run in when, if you're in the mix, games are absolutely must win. That said, a statement win here would have been a massive boost.

I don't think we should throw in the towel this early, that would be silly. And I think HCZ writing off players this early is silly too - Gyökeres scored an excellent goal just last week.
I've never been sure Arteta can get us over the line in terms of landing the biggest trophies. I always thought this season was his last chance to prove me wrong. With the transfer window we've had it definitely is. Surely the board will lose patience with him if he still can't deliver after the way they've backed him.

Maybe it’s premature but I haven’t been impressed with what I’ve seen. It’s just as possible that the system we are playing is not allowing them to flourish but whilst that might account for Gyokeres, I don’t see how it explains Zubimendi who just looks like a pale imitation of Partey.

[IBK]

Are you new here?


One could argue that's exactly what we did at Old Trafford.

I'm disappointed that Arteta's first thought seems to be that this was a game we must not lose rather than must win.
This early in the season there are no must win games, that's why I was always OK with us having a tough start to the season. You wouldn't want this set of fixtures in the run in when, if you're in the mix, games are absolutely must win. That said, a statement win here would have been a massive boost.

I don't think we should throw in the towel this early, that would be silly. And I think HCZ writing off players this early is silly too - Gyökeres scored an excellent goal just last week.
I've never been sure Arteta can get us over the line in terms of landing the biggest trophies. I always thought this season was his last chance to prove me wrong. With the transfer window we've had it definitely is. Surely the board will lose patience with him if he still can't deliver after the way they've backed him.

I don't disgree with your comment in bold, but my point about champions is not about a single game. Liverpool habitually seem to find a way to win in adverse circumstances. It is a rarity for us to do so. Of course I take the point about it being early in the season, and I was trying to be quite measured in my post. But like you say, there's an inherent conservatism in the way Arteta plays that I feel could well hold us back from glory.

I've spent the past weeks defending Arteta in terms of what he has achieved with us so far, and I stand by this. Where I am more circumspect, like you, is whether the manager has it in him to take that final step to major trophies. Like I say, yesterday's match encapsulated this concern. 3 points were IMO within our grasp given how Liverpool played. The manager and his players fluffed their lines.

@KSE I am struggling to understand how you take issue with the fact that we lost to a moment of brilliance. Liverpool won courtesy of a wonder strike from a free kick. It makes no difference to this obseravtion whether both teams were fairly ordinary or going toe to toe with each other. You might say we were undone by our lack of endeavour - and I think we all agree this, but the headline is that we lost because of Szoboszlai's magic, not Liverpool's overall quality.

[IBK]

Maybe it’s premature but I haven’t been impressed with what I’ve seen. It’s just as possible that the system we are playing is not allowing them to flourish but whilst that might account for Gyokeres, I don’t see how it explains Zubimendi who just looks like a pale imitation of Partey.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm wth you on Zubi. I think he is a class act...but given the pace and physicality of the EPL compared to Spain it's understandable that he might take a bit of time to adjust. While he has made some errors I am confident that he will iron these out with a bit of time and familiarity with his team mates. Same goes for Gyok - and in particular I think he is not fully conditioned yet. My main concern with Gyok is that I didn't see him making many runs yesterday - bar the move that Martinelli fcuked up. If he is not going to show/get into the box then he is not going to encorage passes to him. I have a small concern that we have bought a battering ram rather than a player with sufficient technique to blend with an Arteta team - particularly if we are going to continue to be so slow getting the ball forward to him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm wth you on Zubi. I think he is a class act...but given the pace and physicality of the EPL compared to Spain it's understandable that he might take a bit of time to adjust. While he has made some errors I am confident that he will iron these out with a bit of time and familiarity with his team mates. Same goes for Gyok - and in particular I think he is not fully conditioned yet. My main concern with Gyok is that I didn't see him making many runs yesterday - bar the move that Martinelli fcuked up. If he is not going to show/get into the box then he is not going to encorage passes to him. I have a small concern that we have bought a battering ram rather than a player with sufficient technique to blend with an Arteta team - particularly if we are going to continue to be so slow getting the ball forward to him.

I hope I’m wrong for sure, the problem is he’s 26 not 19….i simply don’t believe you can just adapt to a quicker stronger league unless you have the ability. Partey was injured loads but he never seemed to me to have adaptation issues.

I do think a new coach will need to spend money to implant his signature on the team, as an Arsenal supporting mate pointed out we played with four centre backs yesterday. That’s on top of the three defensive midfielders we had in the middle of the park. This is a team with much talent but is incredibly unbalanced.

It’s easy to say with hindsight but I think most of our summer spending was wasted on a man who is simply too certain in his way of working to change his ways. It hurts so much more than with City that we are allowing Liverpool to step over us to get the major prizes because we lack the ruthlessness to do what needs to be done.

Liverpool winning the title was painful extremely painful, not because I dislike Liverpool. I have a great deal of respect for the club and the way it conducts business. But they’ve stepped in when we wouldn’t step up

That title last season was ours for the taking, similarly with City clearly going through more than a one off stutter it could have been ours for the taking again. But it won’t be, we know it won’t be….yesterday was a chance to prove everyone wrong and inflict a massive psychological blow on Liverpool…they even expected it because they played cautiously, they knew we had the ability to punish them….but we didn’t fucking try. I can’t forgive that

[Marc Overmars]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm wth you on Zubi. I think he is a class act...but given the pace and physicality of the EPL compared to Spain it's understandable that he might take a bit of time to adjust. While he has made some errors I am confident that he will iron these out with a bit of time and familiarity with his team mates. Same goes for Gyok - and in particular I think he is not fully conditioned yet. My main concern with Gyok is that I didn't see him making many runs yesterday - bar the move that Martinelli fcuked up. If he is not going to show/get into the box then he is not going to encorage passes to him. I have a small concern that we have bought a battering ram rather than a player with sufficient technique to blend with an Arteta team - particularly if we are going to continue to be so slow getting the ball forward to him.

I think from what we’ve seen of Gyokeres so far he is definitely a battering ram with hardly anything in terms of finesse and technique. Maybe he’ll play himself into form as he gets used to the league but I believe this is simply what he is and I think it’s on the rest of the team to adapt for him if we want to see the best of him.

I’m not going to judge too harshly though based off games at Old Trafford and Anfield, 2 grounds that we rarely perform at year in year out, however I am beginning to understand why Sesko’s style of play made him originally a more suitable choice for us.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think from what we’ve seen of Gyokeres so far he is definitely a battering ram with hardly anything in terms of finesse and technique. Maybe he’ll play himself into form as he gets used to the league but I believe this is simply what he is and I think it’s on the rest of the team to adapt for him if we want to see the best of him.

I’m not going to judge too harshly though based off games at Old Trafford and Anfield, 2 grounds that we rarely perform at year in year out, however I am beginning to understand why Sesko’s style of play made him originally a more suitable choice for us.

This is an interesting take.

I must say I don't see how Sesko, or even my preferred option, Ekitike, would do much better with the pointless system Arteta has chosen to operate in attack.

I actually think a battering Ram is what suits a team that lacks imagination going forward and insists on imposing its physicality on all opponents.

Gyokores didn't get any quality service or a single chance from what I saw yesterday. I don't think anything can be said about his performance yesterday as he was simply sacrificed to maintain our facade of control.

Eventually, I do believe Arteta will resort to long balls to seek him out (primarily from Raya or maybe Zubi), and this was where I was going to that our most effective form of attack under this manager will end up being plain route one football, which could have obviously been achieved with far less than a billion quid.

[IBK]

This is an interesting take.

I must say I don't see how Sesko, or even my preferred option, Ekitike, would do much better with the pointless system Arteta has chosen to operate in attack.

I actually think a battering Ram is what suits a team that lacks imagination going forward and insists on imposing its physicality on all opponents.

Gyokores didn't get any quality service or a single chance from what I saw yesterday. I don't think anything can be said about his performance yesterday as he was simply sacrificed to maintain our facade of control.

Eventually, I do believe Arteta will resort to long balls to seek him out (primarily from Raya or maybe Zubi), and this was where I was going to that our most effective form of attack under this manager will end up being plain route one football, which could have obviously been achieved with far less than a billion quid.

Neither did he make runs though...

[Mac76]

I was going to say the same thing earlier but wanted to see their take on MOTD first, which was non existent.

Honestly I do try to give Arteta the benefit of doubt and I want to really believe he has a plan and knows what he's doing, but that decision really pissed me off and made me feel like we've got a cynical human being in charge of our club.

Nwaneri was on the bench, Trossard was on the bench.

Established internationals like Gyokores and Madueke were being bullied off the ball, and the few times they got a sniff, they folded under that atmosphere......but he expected a 15 year old to come on and do what exactly? I mean what is someone who has not had an EPL shot on target suppose to do in that atmosphere??

Well if you ask me I think he was hoping for another pity party and probably a soft penalty.... whatever his thinking, it suggests to me he had no intention of winning that game honourably or properly.

exactly, to play him ahead of Leo in particular (who, pay rise or not, must have been fuming) was a joke - ok so Leo is better on the left but still bring him on or at least Nwaneri

[IBK]

I hope I’m wrong for sure, the problem is he’s 26 not 19….i simply don’t believe you can just adapt to a quicker stronger league unless you have the ability. Partey was injured loads but he never seemed to me to have adaptation issues.

I do think a new coach will need to spend money to implant his signature on the team, as an Arsenal supporting mate pointed out we played with four centre backs yesterday. That’s on top of the three defensive midfielders we had in the middle of the park. This is a team with much talent but is incredibly unbalanced.

It’s easy to say with hindsight but I think most of our summer spending was wasted on a man who is simply too certain in his way of working to change his ways. It hurts so much more than with City that we are allowing Liverpool to step over us to get the major prizes because we lack the ruthlessness to do what needs to be done.

Liverpool winning the title was painful extremely painful, not because I dislike Liverpool. I have a great deal of respect for the club and the way it conducts business. But they’ve stepped in when we wouldn’t step up

That title last season was ours for the taking, similarly with City clearly going through more than a one off stutter it could have been ours for the taking again. But it won’t be, we know it won’t be….yesterday was a chance to prove everyone wrong and inflict a massive psychological blow on Liverpool…they even expected it because they played cautiously, they knew we had the ability to punish them….but we didn’t fucking try. I can’t forgive that

I don't think he lacks ability. Remember that there were other quality teams chasing him, including Liverpool. Talking of Liverpool - I didn't see their £116 million signing - Witrz - do much yesterday either...

[Mac76]

And maybe you could justify that last season when we didn't have a striker worthy of the name. But now we do. But if they're not getting service then they're not going to be effective.

and they're not getting service becasue Nwaneri and Eze who can make things happen are both on the bench for the majority of the game

The only person offering a threat of any kind was Madueke but he was over the other side to Gyokeres who was stuck with Mr Head-Down-and-Run

[Mac76]

Are you new here?



:lol:


One could argue that's exactly what we did at Old Trafford.



I was calm after Man Utd, a difficult first game with lots of new players - I'm not 'angry' now but very resigned to another season of crap football and no trophies


I'm disappointed that Arteta's first thought seems to be that this was a game we must not lose rather than must win.
This early in the season there are no must win games, that's why I was always OK with us having a tough start to the season. You wouldn't want this set of fixtures in the run in when, if you're in the mix, games are absolutely must win.



You're not in the mix unless you pick up every available point throughout the season. That's why I was annoyed when Arteta didn't try to beat Brighton last year in the third game, 10 men or not - Pep or Klopp would have

As far as I'm concerned if you're not trying to win you're trying to lose - Arteta still thinks football is played on a computer, not on a pitch where the perfect FK can happen to upset all your careful plans...


I think HCZ writing off players this early is silly too


agreed, ridiculous, we have a good squad but their potential is not being maximised



I've never been sure Arteta can get us over the line in terms of landing the biggest trophies. I always thought this season was his last chance to prove me wrong. With the transfer window we've had it definitely is. Surely the board will lose patience with him if he still can't deliver after the way they've backed him.


You'd like to think so, sadly it will take a really shit season which won't be fun, especially if like me, someone is dumb enough to pay to go to the games :pal:

What the Kroenkes won't do is anticipate the failure and move him on, say, at Christmas, before it's completely too late

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Neither did he make runs though...

Maybe I need to rewatch the match again, but I can't recall a single time anyone got the ball and was looking to play a through pass....all I witnessed, especially in the 1st half where we were "dominant", were players who insisted on either holding the ball for too long or playing safe sideways passes to avoid conceding possession.

It almost seemed like attempting to play a through pass was forbidden and not part of the plan....and though this sounds ridiculous, one needs to consider the kind of control freak we have as a manager.

I mean this is someone who later blamed Zubi for conceding the foul that led to the goal, like its normal to expect a player to score from that distance.

[Mac76]

It also seems he believes the only way to score a goal is to take advantage of a mistake from the opposition or a moment of brilliance, at least he repeated that refrain shortly after the match.

This is something that baffles me as it is extremely unPeplike. That's why sometimes I argue I'm not sure he has an identity and knows how he wants his team to play, and by "play" I don't mean defend, but go after a game, score and win (the aim of the game, let's not forget)

It's really a shame that after six years, he still can't think of a way to actually play the game in a manner that leads to these outcomes instead of being a parasite that continually capitalises on people's mistakes.

No matter how many trophies he wins (or not in this case), no one is ever going to remember that kind of football.... at least not for the right reasons.

This

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think he lacks ability. Remember that there were other quality teams chasing him, including Liverpool. Talking of Liverpool - I didn't see their £116 million signing - Witrz - do much yesterday either...

Well Wirtz has been completely anonymous since joining Liverpool (I thought it was a signing they never needed to begin with anyway) but that doesn’t change the equation on Zubimendi. When I say lacks the ability, I think he’s got good technical ability but I don’t think he has the physical strength or the quickness of thought to make passing under pressure. Very similar to Granit Xhaka in that respect (although far more defensively disciplined than Xhaka).

[Mac76]

This is an interesting take.

I must say I don't see how Sesko, or even my preferred option, Ekitike, would do much better with the pointless system Arteta has chosen to operate in attack.

I actually think a battering Ram is what suits a team that lacks imagination going forward and insists on imposing its physicality on all opponents.

Gyokores didn't get any quality service or a single chance from what I saw yesterday. I don't think anything can be said about his performance yesterday as he was simply sacrificed to maintain our facade of control.

Eventually, I do believe Arteta will resort to long balls to seek him out (primarily from Raya or maybe Zubi), and this was where I was going to that our most effective form of attack under this manager will end up being plain route one football, which could have obviously been achieved with far less than a billion quid.

you're essentially right, though once or twice I thought Gyok could have broken away from his defender a little earlier as one of our players put their head up to see what was ahead of them, but other than that he's entirely contrained by the failure to build a system that makes the most of him.

It least he has confidence, experience and determination, something which he will retain all season, you can just see he's made that way - Sesko would simply fold in this situation

[HCZ_Reborn]

I do think I’m absolutely being premature in my assessment of these players but I’m genuinely worried and unimpressed by what I’ve seen so far. I think Arteta’s suffocating style doesn’t help, but players have to be able to break out of that and show their own individual quality. We can say Gyokeres is not being given service and there’s definite truth to that, but you also have to be alive to it when the service is provided, he couldn’t read an Odegaard pass into him yesterday and was half a second too slow getting to it giving Liverpool time to clear.
I stated all summer that the issue was less finishing and more chance creation to begin with (and I might add I was shouted down for that) but it’s never fully a binary….Gyokeres needs to be doing more just as his team mates do.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I do think I’m absolutely being premature in my assessment of these players but I’m genuinely worried and unimpressed by what I’ve seen so far. I think Arteta’s suffocating style doesn’t help, but players have to be able to break out of that and show their own individual quality. We can say Gyokeres is not being given service and there’s definite truth to that, but you also have to be alive to it when the service is provided, he couldn’t read an Odegaard pass into him yesterday and was half a second too slow getting to it giving Liverpool time to clear.
I stated all summer that the issue was less finishing and more chance creation to begin with (and I might add I was shouted down for that) but it’s never fully a binary….Gyokeres needs to be doing more just as his team mates do.

Again , while I largely agree with the sentiment expressed, that particular Odegaard layoff was his trademark piss take, and any decent player would've taken the shot at such proximity, especially since we were one goal down and running out of time.

Seeing your post just reminded me of it and why I am sick and tired of him orchestrating our attacks... he has no sense of urgency or responsibility.

EDIT: just rewatched some highlights on youtube and couldn't find the cute layoff I was talking about. Anyway I looked at the disguised pass, and it's still the same verdict, overly complicated and it would have made more sense to take the shot at that time.

[IBK]

Well Wirtz has been completely anonymous since joining Liverpool (I thought it was a signing they never needed to begin with anyway) but that doesn’t change the equation on Zubimendi. When I say lacks the ability, I think he’s got good technical ability but I don’t think he has the physical strength or the quickness of thought to make passing under pressure. Very similar to Granit Xhaka in that respect (although far more defensively disciplined than Xhaka).

Well it potentially changes the equation in respect of my point that it can take time for even talented players to adapt to a new league and system. I honestly think that Zubi has been pretty good so far. I take issue with his quickness of thought - the way he finds players immediately after winning back the ball is impressive. Sure he has made some errors, and is small in stature, but I think any player needs a few games to familiarise himself with a system and teammates, and Zubi's ball winning belies his size.

I think I'm right that you compared Zubi unfavourably with Partey. Well Partey got pelters regularly for giving the ball away - and was written off by many before his last season. I actually think we need to take more risks in passing, and a progressive DM will get caught out from time to time. 3 games in which Zubi has not disgraced himsef by any means is much too soon, IMO, to write him off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again , while I largely agree with the sentiment expressed, that particular Odegaard layoff was his trademark piss take, and any decent player would've taken the shot at such proximity, especially since we were one goal down and running out of time.

Seeing your post just reminded me of it and why I am sick and tired of him orchestrating our attacks... he has no sense of urgency or responsibility.

I thought it was a clever disguised pass myself, taking the shot on would have just seen it blocked so utterly pointless…we have more than enough blocked shots for the stats

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I thought it was a clever disguised pass myself, taking the shot on would have just seen it blocked so utterly pointless…we have more than enough blocked shots for the stats

Ah edited my post already.

Still feel it was unnecessary given the situation....and it wasn't pinpoint either.

[Letters]

I don’t see how it explains Zubimendi who just looks like a pale imitation of Partey.
You mean he actually asks before sticking it up her back door? :unsure:

Zubimendi I have less of an opinion about.
Gyokeres - I'd be concerned if he was missing chance after chance, but that isn't happening. He's just not getting the service, which speaks to problems in midfield. He knows where the net is, if he gets the chances he'll get goals.

[Mac76]

I think Zubi seems OK but a midfield of him, RIce and Merino can only ever be a stodgefest

[HCZ_Reborn]

You mean he actually asks before sticking it up her back door? :unsure:

Zubimendi I have less of an opinion about.
Gyokeres - I'd be concerned if he was missing chance after chance, but that isn't happening. He's just not getting the service, which speaks to problems in midfield. He knows where the net is, if he gets the chances he'll get goals.

Don’t pretend to be alarmed about the anal rape gag you deliberately inserted

Deliberately inserted much like Partey himself

[Letters]

:lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Slow news day.

Anyway, a pretty good analysis of the match and probably what we might go through this season if we don't address the simple issues that are holding us back.


https://youtu.be/unSSgTA9lkQ?si=-licLsDXur9kUKg8

[HCZ_Reborn]

Slow news day.

Anyway, a pretty good analysis of the match and probably what we might go through this season if we don't address the simple issues that are holding us back.


https://youtu.be/unSSgTA9lkQ?si=-licLsDXur9kUKg8

I do quite like these videos but I’ll pace myself and wait for a slow work day (tomorrow).

I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that this result happened just before the interlull

[Marc Overmars]

I always feel like it sucks for the fans more if we have a shit result before the break because you’re left to ponder over it.

For the players though it’s out of sight and out of mind when they’re away with their national teams. I think it’s less likely to have a knock on effect with the next game.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I always feel like it sucks for the fans more if we have a shit result before the break because you’re left to ponder over it.

For the players though it’s out of sight and out of mind when they’re away with their national teams. I think it’s less likely to have a knock on effect with the next game.

I concur, will have quite little effect on our players especially as most of them are regular internationals.

Again, I'm not that upset by the result and actually welcome the timing of it.

The upsetting thing is seeing the lack of progress in the team despite all the spending and quality options available.... and I think most fans are in the same boat.

As for Arteta, I really hope he doesn't use the time available to overthink and complicate this further, make the changes that the whole world is unanimous about and grow a pair when you play in big games and away from home....simple.

[IBK]

One good thing about Arteta is that he doesn't give a shit about what pundits say, and neither he nor his team will be affected by this disappointing result coming before the interlull.

I've seen a fair few Arsenal commentators say that we should not overplay his team selection at Anfield; nor underplay the challenges and potential pitfalls of trying to integrate a host of new players in the team - particularly given the injuries to at least 4 players who would have been nailed on to start the game.

It has also been said (rightly in my view) that our defence first approach last season was to a large extent down to the key injuries that we suffered.

To a degree I concur with this. My main criticism specific to Sunday was that the manager left his subs too late.

But as I've said elsewhere, I see Arteta's main problem as trying to eliminate risk and being too wedded to maintaining control of games. While I am not advocating a gung ho approach, if his players are coached into not taking risks (apart from at the back, it seems), then the payback is a dearth of opportunities to break the opposition's defensive structure and vulnerability when they score - too often (IMO) via goals that make a mockery of the Xg that Arteta's coaching seems to be based on.

This approach is also reflected in the way his subs are too often simply like for like - without any system change to put the opposition on the back foot.

People on here know that I hate black and white analysis, and it has to be recognised that Arteta's record against the big teams in recent years is very good - and better than our main competitors. Perhaps introducing more unpredictable forwards will make a difference against lower ranked teams who frustrated us with low blocks last season.

But where I think the consensus is now, is that if Arteta wants to win the league he needs to take the handbrake off and use his improved squad with the bravery needed to force results. He failed to do this on Sunday (whatever reasoned defences of our perfomance might say). I fear that if the manager is waiting to integrate his new players fully before changing his approach (if he is ever going to) then this will be too late.