What has happened to our football?

[IBK]

Serious post.

Look, I'm prepared to cut our team a break for an unconvincing performance on Saturday. We are missing key players; it was never going to be a vintage performance given the pressure of recent events and new players fitting in.

But my God - what has happened to the famous Arsenal football? Wenger is reknowned for the pace and power if the Invincibles era, when we would regularly score goals from our own penalty area in 10 seconds flat; and for the artistry of the Cesc era when this was at its height. What I saw on Saturday was listless; turgid and hesitant. I've not been to a live game this season before Saturday, and I was especially trying to judge whether this was because of the players not trying. It wasn't. You could tell that they cared very much about winning - even though a few of them were rubbish.

Why can't our forwards and midfield MAKE SOME FUCKING RUNS ONTO THE BALL? What is the point of possession; of running down the wings if there is noone in the final third anything other than too far back and static? Until Chamakh (yes, Chamack!) and in particular Benayoun came on the game going forwards looked like a still photograph.

I'll tell you my theory. Wenger became wedded under Cesc to a type of football that requires utter talent; form and confidence to pull off. It is impossible to achieve effectively if any of these are missing - which explains why we repeatedly nose-dive so spectacularly. Single players cannot make it work. Everyone has to be on fire. In short - it is, and has proved too difficult a style for Wenger and his teams to pull off with anything like consistency.

Second, AW is being left behind. Football evolves constantly but his hasn't for 4/5 years. Look how Manure are thriving playing a type of football that is very very similar to the Invincibles (and what odds on them repeating that feat this season - please God, no :pray:)? Football is an easier game, more forgiving when you can exploit space and move the ball quickly from back to front. There is more room for error. Citeh have finally found the personnel to be positive in their play. Despite our reputation for atacking football and our high defensive line, the football we are playing in the final third could often be described as negative rather than positive.

And its a system that is depressingly destructive to our own players. Its no wonder that so many of them are stuttering and shorn of confidence because it doen't offer an easy way to get it back. We are killing Walcott sticking him out on the wing; putting too much pressure on Ramsey and not making best use of Arshavin's talents.

So what do you think has happened to us?

[Kaiser]

It requires work ethic, pressing and a willingness to make off-the-ball runs, as you say. Instead our players seem content to stand still around the edge of the box and pass it to feet. It's been like that for pretty much three seasons. Lazy bastards.

We're pretty much suicidal as we play a high line with no pressing. We don't even play good football anymore, but strangely it's the one narrative thread the media are insistent on promoting.

[IBK]

It requires work ethic, pressing and a willingness to make off-the-ball runs, as you say. Instead our players seem content to stand still around the edge of the box and pass it to feet. It's been like that for pretty much three seasons. Lazy bastards.

We're pretty much suicidal as we play a high line with no pressing. We don't even play good football anymore, but strangely it's the one narrative thread the media are insistent on promoting.

Yes - its wierd, I don't think I have seen a single article that points out that we are actually quite boring to watch most of the time.

But I don't think our players are lazy. Uninspired, perhaps but not lazy. Our style of play seems to leech the effervescence out of our players. look at Ramsey playing for Wales. Look how Walcott can play when running onto, not with, the ball. Frimpong is hardly lazy - neither are Sanga or Gibbs. Its just like a collective leaden-footedness.

[selassie]

I personally think that because we're constantly in transistion we don't really ever get to grips with a settled style of play. I accept that with Cesc around our play leaned more towards "Barca Lite Style" possession football, but for me we've not really played at a high level with a defined style since the days of a midfield of Cesc, Flamini, Rosicky & Hleb.

I think our style now has to move away from the possession based game to a more counter attacking based style, if you look at the wide positions and Midfield, our play IMHO should be focused more around counter attacking style and that's where I believe our strengths lie.

IMHO Our football has been in slow decline for about 3 seasons now. I think losing Cesc gives us a perfect oppurtunity to modify our style.

[IBK]

I personally think that because we're constantly in transistion we don't really ever get to grips with a settled style of play. I accept that with Cesc around our play leaned more towards "Barca Lite Style" possession football, but for me we've not really played at a high level with a defined style since the days of a midfield of Cesc, Flamini, Rosicky & Hleb.

I think our style now has to move away from the possession based game to a more counter attacking based style, if you look at the wide positions and Midfield, our play IMHO should be focused more around counter attacking style and that's where I believe our strengths lie.

IMHO Our football has been in slow decline for about 3 seasons now. I think losing Cesc gives us a perfect oppurtunity to modify our style.

I think that's why people were disappointed by Saturday - because it looked a lot like we were playing the Cesc system, just without Cesc. I do appreciate that AW may not have had time to tweak things - particularly with the new players coming in. I have noticed an attempt to be more fluid with players (Walcott/Arshavin); Arteta; RVP; Benayoun shifting around a bit. And we have key players missing (Song; Wilshere; Gervinho). But its pace, and movement off the ball that is the problem and I'm seeing no more of it this season.

[Marc Overmars]

Our football hasn't been that great for a few years now. It really hit home this weekend how dull we are compared to United and City who attacked at an incredible pace and really exploited the wide areas to stretch their opponents.

I'd even say we've become a little more pragmatic in terms of how our goals are being scored.

[Keith]

Blackburn and the midweek game will show what the new Arsenal team look like, I wasn't expecting loads on Saturday as the squad had one training session together before it.

[Power n Glory]

It's bad training. Wenger won't allow the players to experiment with long passes or little chips, he restricts them to playing the ball on the ground which means our players are almost always dropping deep for the ball but while we have this restriction on passes, there is no restriction on movement. He's happy to let the wide players drift into the centre, forwards dropping back and defenders bursting forward. That sort of freedom on the pitch leads to confusion. Our players don't know where to run or who to mark and the constant chopping and changing to the team doesn't help either.

Back in the Invincible days, everyone knew Henry would drift to the left, Pires would cut in, Cole would overlap, Bergkamp would drop deep and Gilberto would sit back with Vieria doing his box to box thing. They had the freedom to move but there was order and they each knew each others movement and what each player was capable of. We don't have that now. We've got at least 3-4 players playing out of position and doing what isn't natural to them and that's restrictive.

[IBK]

It's bad training. Wenger won't allow the players to experiment with long passes or little chips, he restricts them to playing the ball on the ground which means our players are almost always dropping deep for the ball but while we have this restriction on passes, there is no restriction on movement. He's happy to let the wide players drift into the centre, forwards dropping back and defenders bursting forward. That sort of freedom on the pitch leads to confusion. Our players don't know where to run or who to mark and the constant chopping and changing to the team doesn't help either.

Back in the Invincible days, everyone knew Henry would drift to the left, Pires would cut in, Cole would overlap, Bergkamp would drop deep and Gilberto would sit back with Vieria doing his box to box thing. They had the freedom to move but there was order and they each knew each others movement and what each player was capable of. We don't have that now. We've got at least 3-4 players playing out of position and doing what isn't natural to them and that's restrictive.

Wonder if its this attempt at 'total football' gone wrong? I have felt for some time that our players need more control and direction as to what they are supposed to be doing.

@ keith - I agree with you re seeing what the players can do - but a few more training sessions aren't going to alter the pace of our game; the refusal to contemplate aerial balls etc...

[Darth Vela]

Didn't see the game on Saturday but from the higlights it looked like we were trying to use a little more width and get the pace of the passing back in our game, by all accounts a little more hesitant still but actually trying to use a little more pace and get in behind.

I think we're no longer wedded to the 'Cesc way' with everything going through him and less emphasis on the team but as it's been the way we've been playing for quite a while I think it's the taking time to adapt AND bed in new players at the same time that's leading to us retaining that sluggish, lurching kind of play.

So, essentially, I reckon our football left for a while but is on it's way back, it's easy to forget the times when we were scoring shedloads and passing it around well (it was only the start of last season in case people had forgotten when) whilst we're churning out the shit we are but I think we needed a major change and whilst it's happening I think we're going to have to expect a little bit of turbulence. It might well be that it doesn't return under Wenger, then there's only really one option.

[Dog Toffee]

Serious post.

Look, I'm prepared to cut our team a break for an unconvincing performance on Saturday...

So cut them a break then.

[selassie]

I think that's why people were disappointed by Saturday - because it looked a lot like we were playing the Cesc system, just without Cesc. I do appreciate that AW may not have had time to tweak things - particularly with the new players coming in. I have noticed an attempt to be more fluid with players (Walcott/Arshavin); Arteta; RVP; Benayoun shifting around a bit. And we have key players missing (Song; Wilshere; Gervinho). But its pace, and movement off the ball that is the problem and I'm seeing no more of it this season.

I'm prepared to give AW & the team time to tweak things too but I do expect a shift in style particularly focused around the pace and off the ball movement that you have mentioned.

It would be silly to not utilise the strengths of Theo & Gervinho's game as they both have pace in abundance.

[IBK]

So cut them a break then.

:rolleyes:

[Kano]

the style of football means very little.

the meaning imposed upon it by the viewing public (fans, media and neutrals) dictates its wider perception.

[Niall_Quinn]

the style of football means very little.

the meaning imposed upon it by the viewing public (fans, media and neutrals) dictates its wider perception.

Chamakh is shit.

[fakeyank]

Just change the freaking formation and we will see results!

SCfrrfguw

Sagna Per Verm/Kos Santos

Chu/Arshavin/Benayoun Song Arteta Gervinho

RVP

Walcott

I think this formation will kill teams! I am not sure about the right hand side.. we could have Theo there or Arshavin and Young up front.. we have countless options in that formation. And yea, no Ramsey! :pray:

[IBK]

Just change the freaking formation and we will see results!

SCfrrfguw

Sagna Per Verm/Kos Santos

Chu/Arshavin/Benayoun Song Arteta Gervinho

RVP

Walcott

I think this formation will kill teams! I am not sure about the right hand side.. we could have Theo there or Arshavin and Young up front.. we have countless options in that formation. And yea, no Ramsey! :pray:

But can you honestly see that happening? If not what does it say about the team's prospects for employing a more direct counter-attacking style when there is general consensus that playing our existing players in different positions/formations will get a lot more out of them, yet the reality is that this isn;t likely to happen any time soon?

[IBK]

Just change the freaking formation and we will see results!

SCfrrfguw

Sagna Per Verm/Kos Santos

Chu/Arshavin/Benayoun Song Arteta Gervinho

RVP

Walcott

I think this formation will kill teams! I am not sure about the right hand side.. we could have Theo there or Arshavin and Young up front.. we have countless options in that formation. And yea, no Ramsey! :pray:

PS Did you see Ramsey for Wales a week ago last Friday?

[Flavs]

Just change the freaking formation and we will see results!

SCfrrfguw

Sagna Per Verm/Kos Santos

Chu/Arshavin/Benayoun Song Arteta Gervinho

RVP

Walcott

I think this formation will kill teams! I am not sure about the right hand side.. we could have Theo there or Arshavin and Young up front.. we have countless options in that formation. And yea, no Ramsey! :pray:

i dont think even with 14 players we would flow...

QAs i keep saying we should be playing 3-5-2 we have the personal and the skill set to do it perfectly however we have a manager who is more stuck in 2004 than Simon Cowell's wardrobe

[Joker]

PS Did you see Ramsey for Wales a week ago last Friday?

Agreed, Ramsey looked excellent for Wales both against Montenegro and England, yet for us he seems sluggish and off his game for some reason. I don't think we're getting the best out of him this season. Perhaps he is constrained by the role Wenger wants him to play, a role he's not suited to. Nevertheless, I think he's a real talent and wouldn't even begin to write him off.

[Xhaka Can’t]

i dont think even with 14 players we would flow...

QAs i keep saying we should be playing 3-5-2 we have the personal and the skill set to do it perfectly however we have a manager who is more stuck in 2004 than Simon Cowell's wardrobe

Fashion jokes don't work too well on GW. :TEGS:

[LDG]

Fashion jokes don't work too well on GW. :TEGS:

Espesh coming from the cap and shell suit wearing Falvs :sulk:

[Power n Glory]

Just change the freaking formation and we will see results!

SCfrrfguw

Sagna Per Verm/Kos Santos

Chu/Arshavin/Benayoun Song Arteta Gervinho

RVP

Walcott

I think this formation will kill teams! I am not sure about the right hand side.. we could have Theo there or Arshavin and Young up front.. we have countless options in that formation. And yea, no Ramsey! :pray:

We'll have the same sort of problems if he keeps playing people out of position. Strikers and central mid players on the flanks won't help us and it's why we've failed in the past with the 4-4-2. Remember the days when he used to play Denilson, Diaby, Flamini and Eboue on the wings? He's even played Cesc there. When you look at that, you know there is a problem with Wenger's thinking. A change in formation won't help if he thinks he can pull off such moves.

[milla]

Espesh coming from the cap and shell suit wearing Falvs :sulk:

It is not a cap, it's a rabbi hat. :sulk:

[Özim]

What's happened to our football?

Nothing, it's been sh*t and boring me for years. Sure it's awful right now, but then whenever Cesc didn't play in the past it was pretty much the same.

That's the thing about one man teams, if you take out that "one man" then they tend to struggle.

Whilst we have the likes of RVP the team was pretty much run by Cesc.

[Joker]

We'll have the same sort of problems if he keeps playing people out of position. Strikers and central mid players on the flanks won't help us and it's why we've failed in the past with the 4-4-2. Remember the days when he used to play Denilson, Diaby, Flamini and Eboue on the wings? He's even played Cesc there. When you look at that, you know there is a problem with Wenger's thinking. A change in formation won't help if he thinks he can pull off such moves.

Exactly, Wenger thinks his players are completely adaptable, and are able to recreate a Netherlands style "total football" with players interchanging positions at will. The reality is that our players are not good enough to switch positions at ease and perform at the same level. This is not necessarily a slight on the players, because finding players who are equally good in different positions is very rare anyway.

[IBK]

Exactly, Wenger thinks his players are completely adaptable, and are able to recreate a Netherlands style "total football" with players interchanging positions at will. The reality is that our players are not good enough to switch positions at ease and perform at the same level. This is not necessarily a slight on the players, because finding players who are equally good in different positions is very rare anyway.

Too true. If I had one wish regarding our team, it wouldn't be new signings - simply, as a fan, being given the opportunity to see players in their best positions.

[Flavs]

i wish we could do a manager swap/exchange thingy just for a few games so we could see what another manager could do with this rabble.

[IBK]

i wish we could do a manager swap/exchange thingy just for a few games so we could see what another manager could do with this rabble.

Funny - I sometimes imagine that too...

[IBK]

i wish we could do a manager swap/exchange thingy just for a few games so we could see what another manager could do with this rabble.

PS - It would be a great commercial idea, wouldn;t it - all those disaffected football fans out there get to se what life is really like for a bit...

[Flavs]

PS - It would be a great commercial idea, wouldn;t it - all those disaffected football fans out there get to se what life is really like for a bit...

I choose to swap with QPR just to see the look on our players faces when a snarling, cup throwing, foul mouthed, throat grabbing Neal Warnock starts tearing into them for not tracking back or looking half arsed.

[I_Killed_Kenny]

lol the russian meerkat would just burrow himself a new hole near the corner flag til the big bad warnock went away

[Flavs]

I watched QPR last night and they played some good stuff, he is certainly a lot less punt and chase than at the blades and county.

Also Taarabt is quality

[Xhaka Can’t]

PS - It would be a great commercial idea, wouldn;t it - all those disaffected football fans out there get to se what life is really like for a bit...

I'd quite happily do it for their salary, and they can have a go at getting by on mine.

[Flavs]

I'd quite happily do it for their salary, and they can have a go at getting by on mine.

You still on a pound an hour picking "tayto's"

[hobson's choice]

What happened, I don't know what, but it sucks ass

[Ernesto]

I do believe that the main reason our style of play has wilted is due to pace, or lack thereof. We released two players over the summer who were exceptiona runners in Eboue and Clichy. Both very error prone, granted, but their pace was ALWAYS going to cause a problem for opposition defences.

Now, this is the point that has been re-iterated time and time again on this board. If Clichy or Eboue ARE going to run at defences, who on earth is going to catch up with them from OUR team? Who are they going to pass to? Who are they going to cross to? Watching Man City last night, Clichy looked like a completely different player. Of course, looks can be deceiving because, on the face of it, he didn't do too much more than he did with us. However, it's when he puts IN a cross at City that there is someone who threatens to attack it. At Arsenal, playing this 4-6-0 formation meant Clichy would have to drag play back, wait for a player to come into the box, at which point the opposition would also get numbers back.

The only real threat we have in terms of pace now is Walcott who, as someone mentioned, is far more effective running ONTO the ball than with the ball. How we're going to incorporate such play into this stale formation is beyond me and, if the only outlet for attacking play we're going to have is Theo, is will eventually be so very easy to defend for opposing teams.

[Flavs]

3-5-2 would solve our problems and make the system more relevant to the team IMO. Do we have any actual wingers in our team? Arshavin, Gervinho and Walcott have all looked better when played more centrally and Gibbs (And i would hazard Andy 2 saints) are far better attacking than Defending Sagna is also capable of getting up and down and providing at both ends. The central defenders we have arent the fastest either so play a deeper line with one stepping forward to anchor the midfield when SongPong disappear off up the pitch on a little jaunt.

Like this...


-------------------hnefcugbeuhycb cuxw2q----------------

---------Kos------------Meatpacker---------Vermaelen-----

--Sagna------------------------------------------2 Saints------

-------------Ramsey------Song---------Arteta/Wilshere-----

---------------------------------RvP------------

-------------Whoever----------------------------

Play it with pace and pressing in midfield and upfront and Robert is your mothers brother

[Ernesto]

Jeez, 3 in defence, Flavs....that brings on a cold sweat!

I can see where you're coming from, though. There needs to be something done dramatically. That midfield 3 you've shown- great, hardworking and echoes of Vieira, Edu and Parlour.

RvP in a Bergkamp-esque role. That's good, he'd be a great playmaker, but he also happens to be our best attacking outlet at the moment. The chap we rely on to score goals (that, in itself, is wrong. To depend on one player is too much and in all likelihood he could pack his bags and be off in the summer leaving us in desperate trouble)

What I'd love is for such a formation with almost exactly the same personnel you've shown to be incorporated against (with all due respect) the lesser teams. Such a formation would've pummeled Swansea, and not pussyfooted around them.

Alas, it all seems to be in vain. These threads on how "we can change our style of play" are now just as outlandish as "who are we going to sign". An attacking formation seems just as far away as bringing in Lionel Messi at present.

[Flavs]

Jeez, 3 in defence, Flavs....that brings on a cold sweat!

Well no, when we dont have the ball it would be 5 as the wing backs move back square and one of the centre backs moves a little forward so it ends up like this

--------------------------------------nijbub2ibf2bnhfdw--------------------

------------------------------Meatpacker-------------Vermaelen------------
----------Sagna------------------------------Kos------------------------2 Saints----

And then with the midfield and forwards dropping into to press its more solid than our free for all at the moment, would love Wenger to just ditch this bollox we currently play and try something completely new.

David Dein oncer described Wenger as "A man who would fly around the world to see a new trick or tactic" well unless his passport has been revoked this is a lie

[Özim]

Watched Benfica last night, reminded me of what we use to play like.

So much pace and incisiveness in their play, it's the best type of football IMO and a lot more exciting than anything we've seen from us in recent years. One of the worst things that ever happened was Wenger wanting to play slow paced continental style football, it's just so dull to watch.

[Daniele]

I think the big change happened when AW bought Reyes. Reyes was the firs wrong buy made by AW. Ok, he got Stepanovs and Jeffers etc but they were on the fringe. On Reyes he spent and relied on heavily but wasn't the kind of player who could take us to the next level. He then started buying players more pleasing on the eye than effective or not as effective and consistent as you'd expect from players who have to win a 38-game league like the PL.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I think the big change happened when AW bought Reyes. Reyes was the firs wrong buy made by AW. Ok, he got Stepanovs and Jeffers etc but they were on the fringe. On Reyes he spent and relied on heavily but wasn't the kind of player who could take us to the next level. He then started buying players more pleasing on the eye than effective or not as effective and consistent as you'd expect from players who have to win a 38-game league like the PL.

You could have a point about Reyes, he may have been the first player who believed that his very name carried some weight and that we owed him, he was the first one for whatever reason to start bitching about this and that and TBH I dont think Wenger can handle this kind of player. . . .even Bendtner ran rings rround him
Henry and Viera were in a word rescued by Wenger so respect was forthcoming. . .did Wenger make them great players? that may be mote difficult to answer in hindsight as he hasnt been able to repeat the feat. . .maybe they were already great and just needed a team to play in
the current team+additions may need a bit of time but I think we may be looking at the start of a more workmanlike Arsenal, players who are going to go and do a job. . .in my opinion it needs a formation change and some to ve reassigned jobs even if it means to the bench
I think MVila would be a very good buy, less thrills and more about the job at hand. . . .Hazard too but could he be a bit of a Reyes?

[Syn]

I think Reyes did mark a change in signings but more in terms of the fact that he was the first one who had technical ability and nothing else. Before weenier would go for athletes...here was a short, skinny runt. He was clearly a technically gifted player and maybe the start of the obsession to get success in europe. Wenger wasn't content with just being the best in england.

[Syn]

Btw, weenier was an phone auto-correct...coincidence? Yes.

[Flavs]

I think the big change happened when AW bought Reyes. Reyes was the firs wrong buy made by AW. Ok, he got Stepanovs and Jeffers etc but they were on the fringe. On Reyes he spent and relied on heavily but wasn't the kind of player who could take us to the next level. He then started buying players more pleasing on the eye than effective or not as effective and consistent as you'd expect from players who have to win a 38-game league like the PL.

reyes main 2 problems were his mum and being a complete fuckwit.

Cant fault his performances for Arsenal before the aragones thing happened really.

[Daniele]

I think Reyes did mark a change in signings but more in terms of the fact that he was the first one who had technical ability and nothing else.

exactly, that is what I meant.

[Coney]

reyes main 2 problems were his mum and being a complete fuckwit.

Just tell it like it is. :good:

[Ernesto]

Ironically, we're probably crying out for a Reyes-type player now- someone who can play with pace on the wing and cut inside. He's far better at it than other players who are considered the "best" at it in the league, the Youngs, the Downings, the Malouda's of this world.

In terms of attitudes and big-money flop signings, I'd argue it started with Wiltord......:shrug:

[Flavs]

Ironically, we're probably crying out for a Reyes-type player now- someone who can play with pace on the wing and cut inside. He's far better at it than other players who are considered the "best" at it in the league, the Youngs, the Downings, the Malouda's of this world.

In terms of attitudes and big-money flop signings, I'd argue it started with Wiltord......:shrug:

Or even Jeffers, should of been the next big thing turned out to be, well...shit.

8mil down the drain on him

[Marc Overmars]

Wiltord was good tbh.

Overshadowed by the likes of Henry and Pires, but lets not forget his contribution was always welcome when the main guys weren't on it. I think he got double figures in 2 or 3 seasons with us which is not a bad return for a squad player.

But then Wenger chucked him out on the right. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Wiltord will always be worth it for THAT goal. :cloud9:

[fakeyank]

Wiltord was good tbh.

Overshadowed by the likes of Henry and Pires, but lets not forget his contribution was always welcome when the main guys weren't on it. I think he got double figures in 2 or 3 seasons with us which is not a bad return for a squad player.

But then Wenger chucked him out on the right. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Wiltord will always be worth it for THAT goal. :cloud9:

:gp:

I liked Wiltord and thought he was wasted on the right. Only thing I didnt like about him was that he looked a bit like Gallas IMO :sick:

[Flavs]

:gp:

I liked Wiltord and thought he was wasted on the right. Only thing I didnt like about him was that he looked a bit like Gallas IMO :sick:

well they all look the same tbf...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think the big change happened when AW bought Reyes. Reyes was the firs wrong buy made by AW. Ok, he got Stepanovs and Jeffers etc but they were on the fringe. On Reyes he spent and relied on heavily but wasn't the kind of player who could take us to the next level. He then started buying players more pleasing on the eye than effective or not as effective and consistent as you'd expect from players who have to win a 38-game league like the PL.

Yup, the love affair with Reyes did mark the beginning of the end.

[Boss]

Wiltord was good tbh.

Overshadowed by the likes of Henry and Pires, but lets not forget his contribution was always welcome when the main guys weren't on it. I think he got double figures in 2 or 3 seasons with us which is not a bad return for a squad player.

But then Wenger chucked him out on the right. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Wiltord will always be worth it for THAT goal. :cloud9:

Pretty much.

And the Reyes signing wasn't a bad one, he'd be a top, top player if he wasn't a weak pile of filth.

If we're really being honest the downfall started when we swapped a top midfielder (Vieira) for a 16 year old midget still learning his trade (Fabregas).

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Hater.
TBH Paddy wanted out and youre right Cesc wasnt ready but as I said Wenger can handle anyone once they become adults, things are not made any better by the policies in place and the stibborn bloody mindedness of everyone from Wenger upwards

[Niall_Quinn]

A miserly old man took our football and won't give it back.

[Coney]

A miserly old man took our football and won't give it back.

Piss off - they never asked for it back so I'm keeping it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

punctured.

[Coney]

Wiltord was good tbh.

Overshadowed by the likes of Henry and Pires, but lets not forget his contribution was always welcome when the main guys weren't on it. I think he got double figures in 2 or 3 seasons with us which is not a bad return for a squad player.

But then Wenger chucked him out on the right. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Wiltord will always be worth it for THAT goal. :cloud9:

Wiltord was always getting himself in an offside position. If he had controlled that better, he might have scored a bucket load more goals.

[hobson's choice]

reyes main 2 problems were his mum and being a complete fuckwit.

Cant fault his performances for Arsenal before the aragones thing happened really.

This