Defensive coach

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has the full backing of the club's players, despite the club's worst start to the season for 58 years - but they want a defensive coach to help them through their current crisis. Full story: Daily MirrorIt takes the players to tell Wenger we need a defensive coach? Who's likely to come in?

[Tipsychubbs]

I think its something the team needs too but it can only go so far. Defending starts from the front through the midfielders and then the back four. Our team shape off the ball is terrible, the midfielders hang the back four out to dry, and the back four themselves are obviously poor as a unit.

Also Arseblog had a point when he said:


I hear people talking about how we need a new defensive coach. I’m really not sure that’s the answer. It probably wouldn’t hurt but ultimately it’d be like zonal marking, absolving Arsene of the responsibility. The finger could be pointed at the defensive coach, if things went wrong, and not the manager. Anyway, Arsene has resisted all previous calls for an addition to his coaching squad, to do so now would smack of desperation.

http://arseblog.com/2011/09/blackburn-4-3-arsenal-a-game-of-two-halves/

Ultimately we need a manager that understands how to defend as a team, and AW is showing no signs of understanding how to do that. A defensive coach is better than nothing, but the manager's philosophy is too attack based for it to have a major effect on the team.

It would make sense though to promote Steve Bould from the under-18s into the first team coaching set up. Or maybe kidnap Lee Dixon and Martin Keown from their BBC jobs and get them on the training pitch. You inherited a great defense Wenger, and this gave you a solid platform to build on. You might as well use them again if possible.

[Marc Overmars]

The obvious choice is to promote Steve Bould of course but there is no instant fix. There's every chance the defence would still self destruct even with him behind them. These players are set in their ways and need shaking up, so something, anything has to be done.

Quite frankly it does not speak volumes at all for Wenger that it's become pretty much accepted he cannot build a defence. One of the best managers in the world? Hmm.

[LDG]

The obvious choice is to promote Steve Bould of course but there is no instant fix. There's every chance the defence would still self destruct even with him behind them. These players are set in their ways and need shaking up, so something, anything has to be done.

Well two of the four on Saturday were new boys who shouldn't need shaking up.

Our problems are the same as they've been for 6 years.

We don't keep a straight line. We don't mark up in the box. We can't deal with high balls down the middle. We let the ball bounce. We don't work as a unit.

Our defenders also need to start lumping the ball up more. Fuck the passing out of the back, because with Kos and Merts. they're shit at it. lump it up and get players putting pressure on the 3rd touch, like every other fucker does to us.

[Marc Overmars]

Preaching to the choir mate, this rubbish has gone on long enough and it actually angers me to still have this same topic of discussion after all these years. Wenger would have been sacked by now if this was any other club, but he's still here because the people on the board are only interested in the monies he makes them.

[Fats]

Need a new manager.

What the feck does he do

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

gone too far now.

players wont respond to wenger. he's let them get away with murder for 6 years.

need change of personnel.

[BOBN]

not one of these anti-wenger types but if the players have lost faith in his ability to send out a side capable of winning (ie. one that can defend) then im not sure how his position is still tenable.

[Coney]

not one of these anti-wenger types but if the players have lost faith in his ability to send out a side capable of winning (ie. one that can defend) then im not sure how his position is still tenable.

I agree. There have been good managers in the past at other clubs who simply have lost the trust of the players - it is not because they are fundamentally bad managers, it is just that when the confidence has gone, it can need a change of personel at the top. I am prepared to wait a few more weeks as the new players have not had time to bed in. Also, although our defence left something to be desired in the last game, I did like the way we played very hard up to the final whistle to get something out of the game. Sure, there were some bad misses but the effort was definitely there and more than we have been showing in the recent past. But Wenger must turn it round before Xmas or I think the majority of fans will be calling for his head. Including me.

[AdamsNumber6]

Well two of the four on Saturday were new boys who shouldn't need shaking up.

Our problems are the same as they've been for 6 years.

We don't keep a straight line. We don't mark up in the box. We can't deal with high balls down the middle. We let the ball bounce. We don't work as a unit.

Our defenders also need to start lumping the ball up more. Fuck the passing out of the back, because with Kos and Merts. they're shit at it. lump it up and get players putting pressure on the 3rd touch, like every other fucker does to us.

Agreed. Seemed as though the new-boys are still settling in though....not an excuse perhaps, better organisation of the transfer-window would maybe have assisted here, however, Santos' first game and Merts' first against genuine, clod-hopping, premiership opposition is always going to be a baptism of fire.

Lets take an analytical view of all their goals.

Goal 1.
First mistake, Santos holds Yak on-side. He can see across the line and should be better positioned.
Second mistake, Koscielny has Yakubu in front, in his vision and does not get close to him. Basic defending, really !
Goal 2.
Bit unlucky this one, but to be honest it still needs a big shout with a big boot/ head from Kos (I think) who was standing in front of Song
Goal 3.
Simple basic lack of organisation and thinking. Kos goes for the head and misses....seems to do this a lot in the box. The Blackburn player just wellies a hopeful ball into the box and Yakubu scores. There are at least three Arsenal defenders by-passed on the way to Yakubu, none of whom think to close down the cross. You can bet your life that if it had been at the other end, you'd have Blackburn players hurling themselves in front of the ball for fun !
Goal 4.
I think this goal highlights everything that is wrong with our defending...and you know what ? Kos was not at fault for it this time.....his positioning was good for a change. Ironically, had it not been as good he probably wouldn't have scored ! Djourou's utterly, contemptible stupidity for trying to slide tackle their winger was completely unforgiveable at this level. What he should have done, what you and I would have done, what my bleedin' grandmother would have done is stay on your feet, show him the line, slow up the pace of the attack and give the defence a chance to get back. And then, as if that wasn't bad enough, Song's attempted tackle was just laughable. It was as though he was playing a trivial five-a-side game with his mates. He's a giant of a man, why the hell didn't get his body between man and goal and shuffle the bloke into touch !! Instead he puts in his toe like he was testing the water at his local swimming baths while the winger takes a touch and whips a decent ball in front of him. IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AT THIS LEVEL!!!!!

Defending is not just the domain of defenders...it starts from the front. We are not good enough at closing down up-front and in midfield. We are not bright enough, or aware enough to judge when we can make a challenge or when we just need to hold players up. We panic too easily and allow teams to break at speed and seem incapable of breaking them up or slowing them down.

I hear a lot of people criticising the team for not having the desire, to go and get stuck in or for not trying hard enough. Whilst this may be true for one or two players (Arshavin seems to be the main culprit) I actually believe that much of our problems stem from us trying too hard. JoDo's attempted tackle for the fourth goal showed plenty of desire for example, but was just utterly stupid. His head had gone, he couldn't handle the pressure and all logic had evaporated from his brain. I can't fault Kos for effort, but his decision making is just pitiful when he's up against it.

I think this is where the much-bandied "Leader" is required. To take the team by the scruff of the neck and say "Right, you morons, calm down, heads-up and let's play these W****rs off the park, like you know we can !!". Problem is, I'm not sure we've got anyone like that...not even the manager !

[selassie]

The obvious choice is to promote Steve Bould of course but there is no instant fix. There's every chance the defence would still self destruct even with him behind them. These players are set in their ways and need shaking up, so something, anything has to be done.

Quite frankly it does not speak volumes at all for Wenger that it's become pretty much accepted he cannot build a defence. One of the best managers in the world? Hmm.

:good:

Yep, what baffles me more than anything is that if Wenger is incapable of coaching defence which he clearly is, why doesn't he just hire a defensive coach/specialist?

[LDG]

:gp:

And welcome btw :tiphat:

@AdamsNumber6

[Fist of Lehmann]

Appropos of something, how many permutations of back 4 do you reckon we've had over the first 8 games of the season?

Go on have a guess.

[Özim]

Appropos of something, how many permutations of back 4 do you reckon we've had over the first 8 games of the season?

Go on have a guess.
None, I've yet to see anything that resembles a "back 4"

[Fist of Lehmann]

Have a better guess.

[Flavs]

can one of you statistics ogres find out if our defence went wank when we changed formation or when Campbell left please. Thinking back to the season before we got Gallas i think we were still solid, it was when him and Toure fell out we started to self implode i think.

Kfanxbai

[Flavs]

done it myself. Under wenger, goals conceded year on year

96/97 -32*
97/98 - 33
98/99 - 17*
99/00 - 43??
00/01 - 38
01/02 - 36
2/3 - 42
3/4 - 26*
4/5 - 36
5/6 - 31
6/7 - 35
7/8 - 31
8/9 - 37
9/10 - 41
10/11 - 43

* means lowest in the league

Last 4 years have increased year on year as well...

[Syn]

So 5 matches in and we've only conceeded 3 goals less than we did in the entire 98/99 season. That's just disturbing.

[Flavs]

So 5 matches in and we've only conceeded 3 goals less than we did in the entire 98/99 season. That's just disturbing.

I am sure someone will correct me but was that the season we only lost once? Which was away at Chelsea?

[Cripps_orig]

I am sure someone will correct me but was that the season we only lost once? Which was away at Chelsea? the season you're thinking of is 90/91 where we conceded 18.

[Flavs]

the season you're thinking of is 90/91 where we conceded 18.

fuck i'm old :good:

[Marc Overmars]

So 5 matches in and we've only conceeded 3 goals less than we did in the entire 98/99 season. That's just disturbing.

:lol: Indeed.

Although I think United scored 20+ more than us that year.

That season still makes me sick to this day.

[Xhaka Can’t]

done it myself. Under wenger, goals conceded year on year

96/97 -32*
97/98 - 33
98/99 - 17*
99/00 - 43??
00/01 - 38
01/02 - 36
2/3 - 42
3/4 - 26*
4/5 - 36
5/6 - 31
6/7 - 35
7/8 - 31
8/9 - 37
9/10 - 41
10/11 - 43

* means lowest in the league

Last 4 years have increased year on year as well...

We are on course to concede 106 this year.

Thank fuck we kept clean sheets against Newcastle and Swansea, otherwise it would have looked really bad.

[selassie]

Does anybody even think Arsene is going to employ a defensive coach? This is a man that has ignored his star players who have been asking him to improve the squad for the past 5 or 6 seasons. He certainly won't bow to pressure regardless of whether it comes from the media, fans or the players.

I'm not saying that Arsene is unreasonable but he's a man of principles and if he believes that his way is right irrespective of our current slump then I think he'll stick to his ideals.

[fakeyank]

Does anybody even think Arsene is going to employ a defensive coach? This is a man that has ignored his star players who have been asking him to improve the squad for the past 5 or 6 seasons. He certainly won't bow to pressure regardless of whether it comes from the media, fans or the players.

I'm not saying that Arsene is unreasonable but he's a man of principles and if he believes that his way is right irrespective of our current slump then I think he'll stick to his ideals.

I do agree on what you are saying but I think this season is different. The pressure on Arsene is immense from the fans, press, players etc. Gervinho has already stated his displeasure on having lost Cesc and Nasri, RVP, Theo has called for re-inforcements and also the fact that Theo and RVP will be in their last year of contracts next season, I do think Arsene will change his ways, he has to... he doesnt want to be sacked from Arsenal, a club he has built pretty much by himself in the last decade or so.

My ideal situation would be to get Dein back on board and have Arsene work alongside him.

[Cripps_orig]

The rot started long before Dein left.

Last thing we need is another one of Wengers chums

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW where's the poster that uses stats to prove that it's all in our mind, and AW is actually a better defensive coach than Graham? :chuckle:

[Fist of Lehmann]

It's 10.

10 permutations of back 4 in 8 games.

Also:

Most consecutive games with same back 4 : 2
Total number of games in which same back 4 started game as finished it : 4 of 8

It's not the only contributory factor to our train-wreck defending, or perhaps even the most significant, but it sure is fucked up.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd like to know how often United's defence shifts in personnel, because it appears that Rio and Vidic have been in and out of the side a lot due to injury. They don't have a recognised first choice right back either, Smalling is now playing there, with Fabio & Rafael stepping in many times as well.

I can understand the potential benefit of having a settled defence but ultimatley I believe our problems stem from poor coaching, rather than individuals not being present. Vermaelen is out - so what? Do we really believe the absence of one guy is enough to turn our defence into an absolute shambles? When it's hap hazard at the best of times anyway. They're not kids and they've all been around long enough to know the job in hand.

As I alluded to with United, it shouldn't matter really who is out, at the end of the day you expect your defence to do the job required and that doesn't happen for us, regardless of who is playing. Phil Jones looks quality but would he have hit the ground running with us? Doubt it.

[Flavs]

My ideal situation would be to get Dein back on board and have Arsene work alongside him.

yeah i always think its a good ideal to jump backwards 4 or 5 years when the club clearly need to move forward. Just out of interest what exactly do you think Dein did at the club? Was he a defensive coach? assistant manager? Club psychologist?

No he was a board member FFS, another one. Why don't we bring back Lady yo-yo knickers and resurrect Fiszman as well. That would be rosy

:angry:

[Flavs]

I'd like to know how often United's defence shifts in personnel, because it appears that Rio and Vidic have been in and out of the side a lot due to injury. They don't have a recognised first choice right back either, Smalling is now playing there, with Fabio & Rafael stepping in many times as well.

I can understand the potential benefit of having a settled defence but ultimatley I believe our problems stem from poor coaching, rather than individuals not being present. Vermaelen is out - so what? Do we really believe the absence of one guy is enough to turn our defence into an absolute shambles? When it's hap hazard at the best of times anyway. They're not kids and they've all been around long enough to know the job in hand.

As I alluded to with United, it shouldn't matter really who is out, at the end of the day you expect your defence to do the job required and that doesn't happen for us, regardless of who is playing. Phil Jones looks quality but would he have hit the ground running with us? Doubt it.

Nothing to do with personnel and everything to do with style, tactics and priorities

[Fist of Lehmann]

Perhaps true, though the right comparison isn't Man Utd vs us, but settled Utd vs unsettled Utd.

It's significance is hard to quantify without a wider analysis on how many goals are conceded by a settled back 4 vs a changed one.

And frankly who can be bothered to do that?

Without that, we're ill-equipped to make conclusions either way. I suspect it's just one more thing on top of the more critical organisational, tactical and confidence factors currently hampering our play.

[Cripps_orig]

Contrary to some reports, Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger will rely on his present coaching staff to erase his team's defensive frailties - refusing to opt for a specialist to improve the Premier League's leakiest defence.
Full story: Guardian

:doh:

[fakeyank]

yeah i always think its a good ideal to jump backwards 4 or 5 years when the club clearly need to move forward. Just out of interest what exactly do you think Dein did at the club? Was he a defensive coach? assistant manager? Club psychologist?

No he was a board member FFS, another one. Why don't we bring back Lady yo-yo knickers and resurrect Fiszman as well. That would be rosy

:angry:

I just think Dein gave AW some sort of footballing brain and perspective into what was happening in the real world. As for moving forward, I'd rather we jump backward to something that was working than what we are witnessing now!

[Niall_Quinn]

:doh:

Saw that. Obviously we aren't in the business of getting results so cheap, cheerful and useless is probably the sensible way to go.

[Flavs]

I just think Dein gave AW some sort of footballing brain and perspective into what was happening in the real world. As for moving forward, I'd rather we jump backward to something that was working than what we are witnessing now!

But we have no way of knowing that something worked 5 years ago would work now. Dein had his time, took his money (and his ball) and went home, fuck him. Thanks for the memories now do-one.

I love that people hold him in some romantic notion like he is santa or something.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

But we have no way of knowing that something worked 5 years ago would work now. Dein had his time, took his money (and his ball) and went home, fuck him. Thanks for the memories now do-one.

I love that people hold him in some romantic notion like he is santa or something.

It's very odd. When you consider who we brought in, the last two seasons Dein was here: Hleb, Diaby, Adebayor, Theo, Baptista, Gallas and Rosicky. You've got to wonder if it would really be that much different now. I'm not saying all of those players were crap because they aren't and I had spent enough time defending them on GW 1.0 but it is fair to say for whatever reason, the majority of them did not succeed.

[Marc Overmars]

I think people hold Dein in high regard just because he was and still is best friends with Wenger. So maybe there is a conclusion to be drawn there for creating a healthy working environment, dunno. Wenger was even prepared to resign when he left, but Dein told him not to.

The rot started well before he left though, with limited transfer activity taking place after 2004, so the club was still heading in the same direction.

[Flavs]

It's very odd. When you consider who we brought in, the last two seasons Dein was here: Hleb, Diaby, Adebayor, Theo, Baptista, Gallas and Rosicky. You've got to wonder if it would really be that much different now. I'm not saying all of those players were crap because they aren't and I had spent enough time defending them on GW 1.0 but it is fair to say for whatever reason, the majority of them did not succeed.and also how much impact on the pitch did he bring? Yes he had input into the clubs transfers and overall direction but he was hardly on the touchline shouting advice out was he. Also i will never forgive him for the Wembley thing or for bringing Usmanov in.

He has become this cult hero for fans who see him as a Del Boy who made good for himself and helped the club he loved and the man he had a fantastic relationship with in Wenger achieve his dreams.

Its truly bizarre

[IBK]

and also how much impact on the pitch did he bring? Yes he had input into the clubs transfers and overall direction but he was hardly on the touchline shouting advice out was he. Also i will never forgive him for the Wembley thing or for bringing Usmanov in.

He has become this cult hero for fans who see him as a Del Boy who made good for himself and helped the club he loved and the man he had a fantastic relationship with in Wenger achieve his dreams.

Its truly bizarre

Its funny, but I've come full circle a bit with DD. I tended to think just like you, but lately I can't help thinking that maybe Dein was a bit more prescient about the way football is going than the rest of our board. I don't like it, but the truth is that our self-sustaining model isn't going to win us anything, while oil and gas money is flooding the game. Kroenke was a conservative appointment - and one which, like Lerner at Villa, may well result in our club ultimately being little more than an example of a financially sustainable US style sporting franchise - where winning trophies is not the priority.

In hindsight, you could argue that the main effect of the new stadium was to make the club more attractive to the likes of Kroenke rather than enabling us to compete at the highest level, or to remain 'independent'. You might well in one sense ask was it worth it? Because we are now beholden to a billionaire owner anyway - whose worst potential excesses are held in check only by, guess who? - The billionaire DD introduced.

Usmanov has a questionable history - as has Abramovich. But at least he has made noises about wanting to invest in the club - rather than being silent, and seemingly without ambition for silverware. I mean its enough to make you laugh, isn't it? Only Arsenal could have 2 billionaire owners, but secure no additional investment whatsoever as a result!

So while at the time, it seemed that DD was selling the club out - maybe he saw this route as the only way for AFC to remain a successful club. Because the way things are going, the option that the club took did not embrace the future of football, but sealed our descent into sustainable mediocrity.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

...but wasn't Dein originally aligned with Kroenke?

[IBK]

...but wasn't Dein originally aligned with Kroenke?

Originally, yes - its what caused the split, wasn't it? By the same token the board was adamant that they wouldn't sell to Kroenke. Time moves on...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Originally, yes - its what caused the split, wasn't it? By the same token the board was adamant that they wouldn't sell to Kroenke. Time moves on...

Well indeed but the board haven't ended up doing anything (in terms of ownership) Dein didn't already intend to happen. Sure he went and found himself another billionaire but would he have done that had he kept his job? I doubt it.

[IBK]

Well indeed but the board haven't ended up doing anything (in terms of ownership) Dein didn't already intend to happen. Sure he went and found himself another billionaire but would he have done that had he kept his job? I doubt it.

I'm not sure you are right there. DD has stated many times that he wanted investment in the club - ie the playing side of things. Maybe he thought Kroenke was the right man for this - because it looks like Kroenke didn't show his true colours until he made it clear to the board that he was happy with the status quo - and became their new best friend. Your are right that in terms of ownership we have ended up where DD envisaged. Difficult to believe that DD's vision was simply for a billionaire to hoover up the shares without investing a penny of his money in the team, though. Much easier to believe that this is what RHW and Co ultimately wanted, as it preserved the status quo.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure you are right there. DD has stated many times that he wanted investment in the club - ie the playing side of things. Maybe he thought Kroenke was the right man for this - because it looks like Kroenke didn't show his true colours until he made it clear to the board that he was happy with the status quo - and became their new best friend. Your are right that in terms of ownership we have ended up where DD envisaged. Difficult to believe that DD's vision was simply for a billionaire to hoover up the shares without investing a penny of his money in the team, though. Much easier to believe that this is what RHW and Co ultimately wanted, as it preserved the status quo.

You can't give Dein credit for thinking ahead of the game, on where football was going and then say Dein wouldn't have been aware of what Kroenke's intentions would be. If that's true, what kind of forward-thinking guy is he, that doesn't know the kind of businessman he is involved with?

[Cripps_orig]

Football consultant Alex Fynn, described by Arsene Wenger as a "football guru" and one of the leading figures in the formation of the Premier League, has collaborated with Kevin Whitcher, editor of the Gooner fanzine, on an updated edition of Arsènal: The Making of a Modern Superclub.

Here, in an interview with Goal.com, Fynn explains how Arsenal are at a crossroads in their history, why Wenger's powerbase has been weakened at the club, the players the manager has regretted not signing and what lies ahead for the Frenchman and the club he has been in charge of for 15 years.

It has been a tumultuous few months at Arsenal. Where do you see the club now?
The club is at a crossroads now. They have to decide on a strategy that significantly improves the playing side and the commercial side.

Should the club’s current position be attributed principally to Arsene Wenger or the board?
Both. The board are fortunate to have had Arsene Wenger as their manager for so long and they have supported him wholeheartedly. In so doing they maybe gave him a bit too much scope and it is difficult to take some of these powers away from him. Because the board placed so much faith in Wenger they didn’t have an alternative plan. They let him get on with what he did so well, which is to win trophies, but the emergence of Chelsea and Manchester City altered the playing field significantly and Arsenal have not responded. The bottom line is the board need to be stronger with Wenger and challenge him more. Wenger needs to change the playing style.

Your book chronicles the fall-out between the board and Wenger’s great ally and friend, David Dein. How much has he been missed since he was forced out of the club in 2007?

Without David Dein, there would be no Arsene Wenger and without Arsene Wenger there would not be the Arsenal we have today. Dein saw the financial threat from Chelsea and felt the team should be prioritised rather than the stadium but the rest of the board disagreed and, as a result, we have Emirates Stadium. For the first couple of years after the stadium was built Arsenal were contenders for the main trophies because of Wenger’s supreme ability, but that time has passed.

Do you believe Arsenal have the resources to compete with the big guns at home and abroad?
If you look at the club’s revenue and take the property into account, Arsenal vie with Real Madrid as the biggest club in the world. Even without property, and just including football revenue, they are the fifth biggest club in the world. They are very successful in terms of the bottom line and they make a profit. Wenger has a wage and transfer budget in this financial year of £150 million. Before the sale of Samir Nasri and Cesc Fabregas, he had a transfer budget of £40m. He hasn’t spent that in the way many fans feel he should have spent it. He could have spent and strengthened at his leisure. Instead, Arsenal did their business in the last hours of the window.

Do you sense that Wenger’s powerbase has been weakened this summer?
Yes, the situation has changed. There were two key incidents. The manager would have preferred to go on his annual Austria pre-season tour but the board thought it was important to service the fans overseas as Arsenal are a worldwide business. In order to promote their commercial activities they needed to go to the Far East and Wenger accepted it. Secondly, he wanted to keep Samir Nasri. The board pointed out to him the facts of the situation, namely, ‘You want to keep our most expensive wage earner whose contract expires in 12 months, who doesn’t want to be here and for whom we have been offered £23m. That doesn’t make good business sense.’ Again Wenger agreed.

Would it have been chief executive Ivan Gazidis persuading Wenger to sell Nasri?
It probably would have been Ivan Gazidis but he would needed to have kept the board informed of what he felt should have been done. Gazidis has been a force for good at the club, particularly when you look at where Arsenal are lagging behind commercially. Their football revenues make them the fifth biggest club in the world, but in terms of commercial revenues, they are 13th. So there is a bit of leeway to make up but they are progressing well. Gazidis has always had power. He has just chosen to use it discreetly in the past.

Are you surprised that Wenger caved in and sold Nasri?
He might be stubborn in terms of the way he runs the football side but when the facts of life are spelt out he will accept them. The problem with Arsenal is they haven’t spelt out the facts of life too often to the manager.

So, there is now someone to knock on Wenger’s door and have a quiet word with him about the football strategy?
In the past, the knocking on the door was few and far between. Now it is a little bit more frequent. There are still obvious decisions that need to be made, first of all on the playing side. It is perfectly obvious that Arsenal need an experienced defensive coach. Wenger also needs a strong number two. Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City and Manchester United have these people in place. Wenger has taken on too much himself. However, he has earned that by his success. When he came Arsenal were overjoyed to qualify for the Uefa Cup in 1996. He has given them 14 seasons of the Champions League, a couple of doubles and, unforgettably, the Invincibles season. He has earned the right to do it his way.

Do you think Wenger’s youth project is a result of his own philosophy or the restrictions caused by building Emirates Stadium?
The restrictions were placed on him when the stadium was being built. He did so well with these restrictions that he felt even when they were lifted that he could continue with the same policy, forgetting that Chelsea were a competitor and there was now an even more competition in terms of Manchester City, while Manchester United were there all along. Someone needed to challenge him in the summer of 2008 and say: ‘You must buy Xabi Alonso. Saying it will kill Denilson is not acceptable.’

In your book you say that Arsenal were only a couple of million short of Liverpool’s asking price for Alonso. Does the failure to buy the Spaniard and others like him highlight how much David Dein has been missed?
Many people misinterpret the role of Dein. Although he wouldn’t challenge Wenger by saying ‘for goodness sake Arsene, we need a defensive coach’, he would say, ‘Arsene, if you want Xabi Alonso, forget about the money’. They were close friends and worked together as a partnership. Wenger says himself that ‘David did my dirty work for me’. Wenger didn’t have the time or inclination to sit down with agents but Dein did. He was a tough negotiator and enjoyed the cut and thrust of negotiations. Unlike Chelsea and Manchester City, Arsenal no longer sit down so often with the mega agents like Pini Zahavi or Jorge Mendes, but if Dein was around there would be more contact.

Richard Law has taken on Dein’s role of transfer and contract negotiator. What do you make of him?
He is a lawyer and not a football man in the way that Dein is and not an Arsenal man in the way that Dein is. Although Dein could have done more in terms of challenging his friend [Wenger], his absence shows how badly he is missed.

Should the board regret ousting Dein?
They acted the way they did because the stadium was the priority. Dein acted unilaterally. He believed while the stadium was being built that money should be found for the team. That was the point of difference, even though his friend, the manager, promised the board he could make do and mend. Dein went against the board policy which was supported by Wenger.

Would Arsenal have bought five players in the last 48 hours of the window if they had not lost 8-2 at Manchester United?
If they had drawn 2-2 would they have bought anybody? I don’t think they would have acquired all the players they have. Wenger has been a critic of the loan system among Premier League clubs and has never before loaned a player [Yossi Benayoun] who he felt probably had his best days behind him. He used to only give one-year contracts to players once they got to 30.

There were well sourced rumours that there was pressure from the top of the club to make radical signings in the final days of the window. Do you believe Wenger was forced to act by the board?
He is making the decisions because he can now see that he might have been looking too far ahead in the past. If he could have his time again maybe he would have bought Xabi Alonso, maybe he would have reorganised the defence earlier. The Man United debacle brought it all home to him that there was just enough time to adjust the situation.

Did you find it odd that Wenger was at a Uefa coaching conference in Switzerland on the final day of the window?
It is unusual. Dein wouldn’t have made it easy for him. Not by saying, ‘Arsene, you can’t go’, but by forcing him to face up to last-minute decisions that would have involved both of them.

Wenger is under contract to Arsenal until 2014. Do you envisage a situation where he could leave the club before then, possibly even this season?
If he has another disappointing season like how the one ended last season and he is roundly criticised he might feel he has done all he can for the club, particularly because he wants to go home to France eventually. The French version of Manchester City, Paris Saint-Germain, have him on their wish list and he has had close ties with that club in the past. He would feel another challenge may revitalise him as manager. He wants to be hands on. Like Sir Alex Ferguson, he can’t envisage not being hands on with regards to the playing side. Wenger has turned down offers in the past from clubs of the calibre of Real Madrid because he couldn’t envisage the same freedom that Arsenal can give him.

Could you envisage him in a director of football role at PSG?
PSG have got a very good director of football in Leonardo, who is exceptionally experienced. If Leonardo and Wenger can work harmoniously then that might be an answer and a new challenge, so long as he decides who the club acquires.

There have been rumours about Manchester City targeting Wenger, a switch that would seemingly contradict his ‘financial doping’ stance?
I don’t think he would go to another English club. Also, he is not materialistically inclined and does not spend money in a lavish way. What is important to him is job satisfaction. Last season, he wasn’t getting the same job satisfaction as previously. If he is not getting job satisfaction this season then I think he might seriously consider calling time on his Arsenal career.

Given that there is a strong possibility that Wenger could leave Arsenal, would the board sack him if results go downhill?
No, because of what has gone before. They owe him too much. The only way that would happen is if there is a complete change in the current board. That might happen because all of the key men who have supported him over time are in their 70s. If the board remain in place, he will be at Arsenal as long as he wishes, even if they finish mid-table this season. But there would be unilateral criticism from fans and he would personally feel that he had let the club down and that maybe enough is enough.

Which brings us to ‘Silent’ Stan Kroenke, the majority owner who lives in the US, who doesn’t care much for football and who keeps his own counsel. Would his view be different to the septugenarian-dominated board?
That is the big unanswerable question. It would be very nice if Kroenke publicly stated his position. What happens if suddenly Arsenal don’t sell 60,000 tickets but they sell 40,000. You would probably think Kroenke might be a bit more proactive. He doesn’t have the same feel for the club as long-term English supporters like Peter Hill-Wood, Dein and Ken Friar and if Arsenal were facing a financial problem he would have to protect his investment.


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/09/21/2668413/the-board-need-to-be-stronger-with-arsene-wenger-and

Great read. Talks about a lot of issues such as Defensive coach, Dein, Alonso etc.

[LDG]

Good read that.

Trouble is, you hear so many opinions, it's difficult to believe any of them.

[IBK]

You can't give Dein credit for thinking ahead of the game, on where football was going and then say Dein wouldn't have been aware of what Kroenke's intentions would be. If that's true, what kind of forward-thinking guy is he, that doesn't know the kind of businessman he is involved with?

The only thing I'm giving Dein 'credit' for is for maybe seeing where football was going - and believing that outside investment was necessary. Whether or not he was mistaken about the true intentions of the potential investor he found originally is irrelevant.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The only thing I'm giving Dein 'credit' for is for maybe seeing where football was going - and believing that outside investment was necessary. Whether or not he was mistaken about the true intentions of the potential investor he found originally is irrelevant.

Well it's not irrelevant because so far as ownership is concerned (in recent years) the two are inextricably linked. If he could see where football was going and 'introduces' the person who is happy with the 'status quo' as you put it, whose fault is that? If he could see where it is going and what is needed to change that, he should've taken the steps to ensure the businessman he is involved with would not be what we have (apparently) got.

He's not a great visionary if he hits the first roadblock.

[LDG]

I think Dein wanted the football side of things to create the club. I think the board saw commerciality as the way to go, leaving Arsene to do the bis on the pitch.

Where we are now, is lacking revenue from sponsors because of the shit commercial deals, and lacking on the pitch because of a stubborn manager.

Getting Dein back would solve one issue, that is Arsene, but it wouldn't solve the others, or the combustablility at board level of having him return.

[IBK]

Well it's not irrelevant because so far as ownership is concerned the two are inextricably linked. If he could see where football was going and 'introduces' the person who is happy with the 'status quo' as you put it, whose fault is that? If he could see where it is going and what is needed to change that, he should've taken the steps to ensure the businessman he is involved with would not be what we have (apparently) got.

He's not a great visionary if he hits the first roadblock.

I don't think we are debating 'fault'. As the article Ach posted makes clear, the rift between DD and the board was that the team should be prioritised rather than the stadium. DD clearly felt that outside investment was necessary on the playing side for us to be able to match Chelsea and Manure. He found Kroenke and it is reasonable to assume that Kroenke gave DD some assurances that he would invest in the playing side.

I said earlier that time moves on. By the time DD left AW's astuteness had ensured that the team maintained top 4 status during the worst of the stadium debt years. By then the board saw Kroenke as the lesser of 2 evils (DD having now perhaps realised that Kroenke wasn't the right man to invest in the team), and Kroenke realised that he could own the club as a self financing business without investing in the playing side.

What is clear, in hindsight, is that the stadium became obsolete as a means of us competing with the richest teams almost as it was being built. It was also the catalyst for the transformation of our team into also-rans, as we became committed to trying to develop young players as a sustainable means of managing the debt. In this light a vice-chairman who was opposed to the stadium and saw investment on the playing side as the necessary route to maintain our success as a team looks rather more far sighted than the rest of the board.

[Flavs]

Good read that.

Trouble is, you hear so many opinions, it's difficult to believe any of them.

This is what always amuses me about these things, "Wenger is in complete control and keeps everything secretive and close to his chest" then they manage to fill out 500 word articles with what they "know"

I dont think we would have made big name signings if Dein had stayed because i dont think that's the way the board want the club to go while we are paying off the stadium, i agree that Dick Law (:lol:) seems to be fuckin useless but he is working in a restricted field, Dein would never accepted that and seemed to be very much my way or the highway.

[Flavs]

Good read that.

Trouble is, you hear so many opinions, it's difficult to believe any of them.

This is what always amuses me about these things, "Wenger is in complete control and keeps everything secretive and close to his chest" then they manage to fill out 500 word articles with what they "know"

I dont think we would have made big name signings if Dein had stayed because i dont think that's the way the board want the club to go while we are paying off the stadium, i agree that Dick Law (:lol:) seems to be fuckin useless but he is working in a restricted field, Dein would never accepted that and seemed to be very much my way or the highway.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I don't think we are debating 'fault'. As the article Ach posted makes clear, the rift between DD and the board was that the team should be prioritised rather than the stadium. DD clearly felt that outside investment was necessary on the playing side for us to be able to match Chelsea and Manure. He found Kroenke and it is reasonable to assume that Kroenke gave DD some assurances that he would invest in the playing side.

I said earlier that time moves on. By the time DD left AW's astuteness had ensured that the team maintained top 4 status during the worst of the stadium debt years. By then the board saw Kroenke as the lesser of 2 evils (DD having now perhaps realised that Kroenke wasn't the right man to invest in the team), and Kroenke realised that he could own the club as a self financing business without investing in the playing side.

What is clear, in hindsight, is that the stadium became obsolete as a means of us competing with the richest teams almost as it was being built. It was also the catalyst for the transformation of our team into also-rans, as we became committed to trying to develop young players as a sustainable means of managing the debt. In this light a vice-chairman who was opposed to the stadium and saw investment on the playing side as the necessary route to maintain our success as a team looks rather more far sighted than the rest of the board.

On the stadium point I disagree, (without sounding too much like Sammy Lee) I've said on many occasions I believe the money has been there to help the team. It's not Citeh or Chelsea level money of course but I'm not sure Wenger neccesarily needs that kind of much money so long as he, as the article says is shown the "law of the land". I've also said before, pretty recently in fact, that the board should be held accountable (as this is what I think has gone on) for allowing the culture to exist of effectively giving Wenger the ability to veto investing any money we may have recouped or earnt. I guess that cautiousness might well have come about from the debt level we've had but I don't think that debt level is (as much of an) issue now. Would Dein's presence have changed that? Possibly but the evidence of 2005-2007 leaves me with some doubt.

However if we are looking for someone to come in and be free-willing with spending then Dein picked the wrong man, regardless of what he might have been told. I can't abide seeing him being hailed as a visionary and then seeing him being defended as though he been has led up the garden path.

Dein has done a lot of good things for Arsenal and obviously he has had a very good working relationship with Wenger but I think there is a danger of mythologising him here.

[IBK]

On the stadium point I disagree, (without sounding too much like Sammy Lee) I've said on many occasions I believe the money has been there to help the team. It's not Citeh or Chelsea level money of course but I'm not sure Wenger neccesarily needs that kind of much money so long as he, as the article says is shown the "law of the land". I've also said before, pretty recently in fact, that the board should be held accountable (as this is what I think has gone on) for allowing the culture to exist of effectively giving Wenger the ability to veto investing any money we may have recouped or earnt. I guess that cautiousness might well have come about from the debt level we've had but I don't think that debt level is (as much of an) issue now. Would Dein's presence have changed that? Possibly but the evidence of 2005-2007 leaves me with some doubt.

However if we are looking for someone to come in and be free-willing with spending then Dein picked the wrong man, regardless of what he might have been told. I can't abide seeing him being hailed as a visionary and then seeing him being defended as though he been has led up the garden path.

Dein has done a lot of good things for Arsenal and obviously he has had a very good working relationship with Wenger but I think there is a danger of mythologising him here.

I'd agree with the mythologising point. I agree also that Kroenke is not the investor we need to compete with the best teams. But does the fact that Dein may have made the wrong call on this detract from the fact that he was right in principle to see where the game was going and take the view he did as regards investment in the playing side rather than the stadium side? Even visionaries can make mistakes along the way - look at our manager for a start...

Like I said, I was firmly in the anti DD camp and I am not eulogising him now. What I am saying is that given all that has happened I am more sympathetic to the way he saw the world when he was kicked out.

As for disagreeing with my statement that the stadium became obsolete as a means of us competing with the richest teams almost as it was being built - I can't really see what is there to disagree with - because the reality faces us every transfer season. As long as it remains full the stadium receipts should ensure that we will never struggle in the EPL, but the fact is that the project has failed as a means of itself to allow us to compete at the top. That is not a judgment on whether it was right or not to build it - it is just a fact.

[Ollie the Optimist]

that was a very interesting read, two points really stood out for me, the first saying without arsene there would not be the arsenal we have today (by that he means champions league, top four year after year not current start) and thats a fcat many really need to remember.

the other one was that he was overruled over austria. i think that was common knowledge before but we go to asia and have the worst start in history, perhaps it owuld be best to go back to austria rather then a far east commercial tour

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'd agree with the mythologising point. I agree also that Kroenke is not the investor we need to compete with the best teams. But does the fact that Dein may have made the wrong call on this detract from the fact that he was right in principle to see where the game was going and take the view he did as regards investment in the playing side rather than the stadium side? Even visionaries can make mistakes along the way - look at our manager for a start...

Like I said, I was firmly in the anti DD camp and I am not eulogising him now. What I am saying is that given all that has happened I am more sympathetic to the way he saw the world when he was kicked out.

As for disagreeing with my statement that the stadium became obsolete as a means of us competing with the richest teams almost as it was being built - I can't really see what is there to disagree with - because the reality faces us every transfer season. As long as it remains full the stadium receipts should ensure that we will never struggle in the EPL, but the fact is that the project has failed as a means of itself to allow us to compete at the top. That is not a judgment on whether it was right or not to build it - it is just a fact.

Well in much the same vein as you've just Dein was right in principle, I'd say the stadium move should've been right in principle too. The reason we are selling our best players with regularity is not solely because we don't have the investment available that other teams do. It's more that our investment (that could have been utilised) has been less than teams apparently worse off! The stadium has allowed us the ability to do what it should've promised to do but it's that act of going that extra mile that we haven't taken.

[Xhaka Can’t]

that was a very interesting read, two points really stood out for me, the first saying without arsene there would not be the arsenal we have today (by that he means champions league, top four year after year not current start) and thats a fcat many really need to remember.

the other one was that he was overruled over austria. i think that was common knowledge before but we go to asia and have the worst start in history, perhaps it owuld be best to go back to austria rather then a far east commercial tour

You are making far to simplistic a link between Austria and our start.

Could it have been a factor? Maybe.

Could it be as big a factor as the timing of our transfer activity? Not a chance.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You are making far to simplistic a link between Austria and our start.

Could it have been a factor? Maybe.

Could it be as big a factor as the timing of our transfer activity? Not a chance.

i dont mean it as a massive factor in our start and i think its a valid point, the tour wouldnt have done much bar raise money comerically, there was a lot of travelling involved at high heat. at least with austria its one place at reasonable temperatures. i think it might have affected more then we think it did BUT is not a major reason why we started shit, though would change tour for next sesason

[IBK]

Well in much the same vein as you've just Dein was right in principle, I'd say the stadium move should've been right in principle too. The reason we are selling our best players with regularity is not solely because we don't have the investment available that other teams do. It's more that our investment (that could have been utilised) has been less than teams apparently worse off! The stadium has allowed us the ability to do what it should've promised to do but it's that act of going that extra mile that we haven't taken.

The stadium has done what it promised, yes, but it hasn't achieved what the club hoped it would because the goal posts have been moved. Of course its right on one level to try to maximise your match day income, and that is what we have done - in lending circumstances that will most probably never be duplicated. But ultimately, this means little when other clubs can just bring in outside investors to achieve the same and more at a stroke.

And then there are the side-effects. We may well have matched our increased match day revenue by marketing overseas off the back of the success of the Invincibles. There is no doubt that the most expensive players can recoup their transfer fees in shirt sales alone. At a time when Chelsea; manure; Liverpool; Citeh are all making strides in this regard - 7 trophyless seasons and loss of star names have seen us dropping behind the competition in terms of profile abroad.

Ultimately, the success of a football team is measured by its success on the pitch, not in the boardroom. The stadium move has coincided with us losing this focus.

[Marc Overmars]

i dont mean it as a massive factor in our start and i think its a valid point, the tour wouldnt have done much bar raise money comerically, there was a lot of travelling involved at high heat. at least with austria its one place at reasonable temperatures. i think it might have affected more then we think it did BUT is not a major reason why we started shit, though would change tour for next sesason

There's no link.

United go to America every summer and only got back a week before the Community Shield this year, after spending 3-4 weeks out there. Has it affected them?

The Asia tour was a month before the season was due to begin, so the recovery time was there for us.

The fact is we still would have started the season with a depleted squad, which is the one and only reason for our slow start.

[LDG]

Defence was priority as singled out by Wenger when last season ended.

He's failed to rectify that.

Simple as.

Pre-season tour means nothing if you don't respect the basic principles of the game in the first place.

[Fats]

He is not going to get one.

The mans ego is bigger than the needs of the team, club or fans.

I wish I could stop supporting our club while these self infatuted and incompetant wastes of space are running it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:gp: Great find Cripps, thats definitely the best and most insightful article i've read on anything Arsenal in almost a decade. The guy knows his onions and i love the objectivity he uses in analysing well known facts- also the interviewers questions were that of a fan and not a silly pseudo-intellectual or someone sitting on the proverbial fence, a great balanced read all in all. A bit sad we no longer have a media section though, would have been a better fit.

[Cripps_orig]

Credit goes to Goal.com tbh. Best website out there for football news whether bullshit or true, it raises talking points and in a forum thats what we need.

I was more interested in the Alonso bit. Looks like we were close to getting him and came up a couple of million short :rolleyes:

[LDG]

Credit goes to Goal.com tbh.

:haha:

[Master Splinter]

Goal.com :bow:.

[Xhaka Can’t]

After 816,876,542,767 attempts, Ach makes a good find on goal.com.

[Cripps_orig]

After 816,876,542,767 attempts, Ach makes a good find on goal.com.

Knew id get one eventually :dance:

[Xhaka Can’t]

It was a superb find tbf.

[fakeyank]

i dont mean it as a massive factor in our start and i think its a valid point, the tour wouldnt have done much bar raise money comerically, there was a lot of travelling involved at high heat. at least with austria its one place at reasonable temperatures. i think it might have affected more then we think it did BUT is not a major reason why we started shit, though would change tour for next sesason

The pre-season tour had absolutely no bearing on our shit start. Thats just clutching at straws. For the amount these players are paid, they better jog to the Far East and back and play 90 minutes non-stop! Now lets look at the reality- these players travel first class, get massages, medical attention etc all on the plane itself. All the players really had to do was go out and play in the heat against Malaysia XI, Panang Curry XII and the likes, after a good summers rest (vacationing all over the world) while being paid millions.. and you are saying that this is one of the major reasons for a disappointing start of the season?!!? You must be kidding me..

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The pre-season tour had absolutely no bearing on our shit start. Thats just clutching at straws. For the amount these players are paid, they better jog to the Far East and back and play 90 minutes non-stop! Now lets look at the reality- these players travel first class, get massages, medical attention etc all on the plane itself. All the players really had to do was go out and play in the heat against Malaysia XI, Panang Curry XII and the likes, after a good summers rest (vacationing all over the world) while being paid millions.. and you are saying that this is one of the major reasons for a disappointing start of the season?!!? You must be kidding me..

This, to even suggest that is silly how is it the Mancs and the Chavs can go to USA/Far east for tours and still start well.Wenger should have done all our transfer dealings done before the tour so the team could Gel together.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/09/21/2668413/the-board-need-to-be-stronger-with-arsene-wenger-and

Great read. Talks about a lot of issues such as Defensive coach, Dein, Alonso etc.

Defo a good read tbh talks alot of sense

[Marc Overmars]

The book mentioned, The Making of a Modern Superclub is a great read tbh.

We don't know much about what goes on behind the scenes of the club but this book offers just a bit of clarity. Looking forward to reading the updated version.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

that was a very interesting read, two points really stood out for me, the first saying without arsene there would not be the arsenal we have today (by that he means champions league, top four year after year not current start) and thats a fcat many really need to remember.


It was more down to the Dein Wenger partnership then Wenger on his own for the way we are as he pointed out. There is no way to know if another manger took over when AW did what would have happend tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Richard Law has taken on Dein’s role of transfer and contract negotiator. What do you make of him?
He is a lawyer and not a football man in the way that Dein is and not an Arsenal man in the way that Dein is. Although Dein could have done more in terms of challenging his friend [Wenger], his absence shows how badly he is missed

This for me is the one of the main problems we have a lot of guys on the board with business minds not Supporters minds and this is where they don't care as much tbh. Not Saying Dein was the biggest gooner but if we had more like that maybe things would be diffrent.

[Ollie the Optimist]

It was more down to the Dein Wenger partnership then Wenger on his own for the way we are as he pointed out. There is no way to know if another manger took over when AW did what would have happend tbh.

one thing we can be sure about is no one would have won teh league unbeaten thats for sure. i think thats wengers greatest moment imo, and you can have your mourinhos, your fergies etc but thats the one thing they never have done.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm sure Wenger would like a slice of those 4 European Cups between them though.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm sure Wenger would like a slice of those 4 European Cups between them though.

oh no denying he would and i would love him to win one for us but imo unbeaten will be a bigger acheivement given it will most likely never be done again, or at least not for many many years

[Olivier's xmas twist]

oh no denying he would and i would love him to win one for us but imo unbeaten will be a bigger acheivement given it will most likely never be done again, or at least not for many many years

I Think wenger would swap that for at least one CL trophy no matter him deluded himself trophies dont matter.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

one thing we can be sure about is no one would have won teh league unbeaten thats for sure. i think thats wengers greatest moment imo, and you can have your mourinhos, your fergies etc but thats the one thing they never have done.

And they don't need to Fergie will still be a better Manager then Wenger because of what he won, same with Jose, Yeah its good to break records and i sure those players would be proud but im sure they'd have swapped it from aa few CL's and a few more Leagues

[Marc Overmars]

It's a wonderful achievment and you're right, no one will probably ever do it again, however it's just 1 league title, only with a novelty factor. Chelsea won the title the year after with more points, so that sort of puts some perspective on the greatness of it. I dunno, I've never put the feat on a pedestal as high it's accepted to be, would that team have been any less memorable if it had lost a game or 2 along the way? Probably not because of the stunning football they played.

I think it's a greater achievement to win your league and European Cup, to me that's the pinnacle.

[Özim]

one thing we can be sure about is no one would have won teh league unbeaten thats for sure. i think thats wengers greatest moment imo, and you can have your mourinhos, your fergies etc but thats the one thing they never have done.
No doubt no doubt.

Fergie's only won 12 titles, 5 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 2 Champions Leagues, 1 Cup Winners Cups, 2 World Club Cups, 1 Super Cup.........mickey mouse manager to be honest :lol: , bet he's well jealous that Wenger managed an unbeaten season, talk is he'd swap all the trophies for it cos at the end of the day that's the one that matters if you want to go down as a great in the history books.

Oh he also won a treble, but that was scuffed so it doesn't count tbh.

[Grebbo]

I love the stick Wenger is getting :lol:

I mean to actually ask whether Wenger, a manager of 30yrs and multiple League winner, needs defensive coaches. Funny.

And it's all thoroughly deserved because Wenger and this team are fucking wank and haven't been able to defend for 4 years.

This club is an utter embarrassment.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I love the stick Wenger is getting :lol:

I mean to actually ask whether Wenger, a manager of 30yrs and multiple League winner, needs defensive coaches. Funny.

And it's all thoroughly deserved because Wenger and this team are fucking wank and haven't been able to defend for 4 years.

This club is an utter embarrassment.

It's really unfortunate to see that a coach who should have easily been able to take his place among the G.O.A.T.s has allowed it to come to this. I mean i know what Fergie said about our drought sounded a tad too simple. But it really is that simple, especially when dealing with legacies. Every time i see AW now, it feels like the emperor's new clothes, he's exposed far too much to us and i wish he'd just put it back. othes, he's exposed far too much to us and i wish he'd just put it back.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sorry, but not getting a lot of love from my phone's browser arrrh.

[fakeyank]

It's really unfortunate to see that a coach who should have easily been able to take his place among the G.O.A.T.s has allowed it to come to this. I mean i know what Fergie said about our drought sounded a tad too simple. But it really is that simple, especially when dealing with legacies. Every time i see AW now, it feels like the emperor's new clothes, he's exposed far too much to us and i wish he'd just put it back. othes, he's exposed far too much to us and i wish he'd just put it back.

Well he turned up into a goat though...




:getcoat: