Henry or Bergkamp

[Ollie the Optimist]

so a fun poll and an interesting one imo. if we could only have one of these players to play for us in their prime rather then when we first signed signed them, who would you have?

i really dont know who i would have had, its a tough question as both men love arsenal and gave their all for us and still to this day love the club. both won loads of trophies for us and both were world class players.

such a hard decision but for me i would take Henry just cos he scored more goals for us. thats only way i can choose this one

[PGFC]

DB10 every time.

[LDG]

That's like asking if I could keep either one of my Mum or Dad.

The silly old cunts.

Oh...gowan then...

....errrrmm.....

....ohohoh....







Dad.


Mum :rose:

[Fist of Lehmann]

This is a squeeker for me. DB10 is probably my favourite player.

Given our current situation and our borked-ass confidence I think Bergy would have commanded respect in the dressing room and be calming influence on the pitch (unless man-marked in which case watch for low-flying elbows). Also a partnership of Rvp and Berg would have been pant-splaffingly good.

On the other hand he doesn't fly.

Henry would have more or less guaranteed goals, and the ability to win a game practically on his own. But I can just imagine the disapproving french stares as this team tried to put a bit of form together.

[Marc Overmars]

Henry. I just loved his sheer arrogance on the pitch, if you've got it you might as well flaunt it. There's nothing between them though, Bergkamp was one of the key figures in our transformation and the fact he retired with us shows his level of commitment, absolute star.

That was a golden generation and it will be a long time before we see players who can reach the level of Henry and Bergkamp again.

[Coney]

Bergkamp by a whisker.

[GP]

My heart says Bergkamp but my head says Bergkamp.

[Coney]

My heart says Bergkamp but my knob says Kampberg.

:coffee:

[Özim]

Henry but only just, loved both players though, but Henry shades it for the sheer amount of goals he scored for us.

Bergkamp had that one season where every match he was scoring the goal of the month.

[Fats]

Bergkamp by a whisker.

Bergkamp by a mile

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Henry's best was better than Bergkamp's best I reckon. So him.

I'd settle for Bergkamp though, in fairness.

[Özim]

though, in fairyness.
How about Reyes?

[Dog Toffee]

Henry, obviously.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How about Reyes?

Who is he up against?

[LDG]

Who is he up against?

Gary Neville

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gary Neville

Reyes. :rose:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Henry could win a game on his own.

Bergkamp was class but we need an Henry more.

[BOBN]

bergkamp was untouchable for a matter of months (late 97-99)

henry was untouchable for 5 seasons+

there is no comparison. maybe if we'd got bergkamp before he went to inter....

[Boss]

Henry by miles.

Far better player.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bergkamp. But I'd sulk until I could play both.

[fakeyank]

Thierry Henry.. Quite possibly one of the best players to have played football. From the time I have started understanding and following football, I'd have him and Maldini after Maradona and Zidane.

We are never going to get another TH14 though :(

We have Chamakh to take over, I hear..

[Niall_Quinn]

Quite possibly Without doubt one of the best players to have played football.

Fixed.

[fakeyank]

Fixed.

:good:

[RomfordPele]

DB10. Would make every one of our players look 10 times better than they really are. Especially Theo.

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp comfortably

[Letters]

Henry's best was better than Bergkamp's best I reckon. So him.

I'd settle for Bergkamp though, in fairness.

I agree, but I think with the team we have now Bergkamp would make more difference. So him.
Henry, brilliant as he was, would just sulk at the quality (or lack thereof) of the players he'd have to play with now, I reckon Bergkamp would get stuck in more and make more difference.

[Cripps_orig]

Henry without Bergkamp wasnt as good tbh

Bergkamp without Henry is still the best player we have ever seen play for us

[Letters]

IMO Henry was a better player although it's close. They were our 2 best players by a distance though and to see them in the same team together for so long was a privilege.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I agree, but I think with the team we have now Bergkamp would make more difference. So him.
Henry, brilliant as he was, would just sulk at the quality (or lack thereof) of the players he'd have to play with now, I reckon Bergkamp would get stuck in more and make more difference.

I think Bergkamp's main strength was his creativity but I'm not sure creativity is really the one area we're lacking in. Scoring goals is, sorry, I'll rephrase - scoring enough goals, is. Henry might well sulk with us now but when he did sulk, I don't think he was in his prime.

[Letters]

IMO part of why we're not scoring enough goals right now is because of a lack of creativity. That's why I think Bergkamp might make more difference. That said, Bergkamp and Henry were both prolific at scoring and creating.

Let's have both :d

[Syn]

so a fun poll and an interesting one imo. if we could only have one of these players to play for us in their prime rather then when we first signed signed them, who would you have?

The team would benefit more from Henry because at his prime he was not actually human but a machine. Pure productivity.

That said, I would still choose Bergkamp because I'm a fan of the cool, the naturally gifted and the martyr who would be several steps ahead of everyone else on the pitch but is willing to go down with a sinking ship.

i.e. there's a danger that Henry could actually single-handedly save us and that'd be a fun story but it's not my style. Bergkamp wouldn't save us but we'd be cooler.

[Marc Overmars]

Bergkamp was also a moody git at times. Although not in an Henry glare kind of way.

To be honest you wouldn't take that away from them though, they demanded the best because they were the best.

Henry's 5 consecutive seasons of 30+ goals is unprecedented, so that's why I'd give him the edge. Even when the team was shite in 2006 that didn't stop him.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Henry, he was just that a bit more exciting for me then DB10, Both were world class in their ways but TH14 had a little more scare factor to him.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Who is he up against?

The best Striker in the World Nicklas Brendtner

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I am reading the question as who I would add to our current team/situation;

That being the case then I think Henry would be my choice, although I think that Bergkamp wad the more sublime footballer, its just I see Bergkamp casting a RvP like frustrated figure up front based on the quality of rhe team, Henry on the other hand would take the ball off the likes of Ramsey and do the job himself.
Added thought is I think Wright would help this team too, he would feed off all of the waste we create in front if goal.

One thing for sure either of those 3 would force Wenger out of the 1 up top formation as we would have to play RvP with one of them. . .saying that he would probably stick him out wide :doh:

Last thought is, and side stepping the threads question, rather than DB10 or TH14. . . .I would definitely have an Adams, Sol, Dixon and Winterburn in their prime. . .the likes of Rooney, Nani, Drogba would not have everything their own way Bartoelli would hate it so much it would be red every time

[Coney]

I am reading the question as who I would add to our current team/situation;

That being the case then I think Henry would be my choice, although I think that Bergkamp wad the more sublime footballer, its just I see Bergkamp casting a RvP like frustrated figure up front based on the quality of rhe team, Henry on the other hand would take the ball off the likes of Ramsey and do the job himself.
Added thought is I think Wright would help this team too, he would feed off all of the waste we create in front if goal.



I'd say the opposite, precisely because of what happened in Henry's last year, where because of his presence, everyone tried to funnel it through him, to avoid the glare if they did not. Bergkamp was a great goal scorer when the situation arose but he was also a great provider and I suspect would be much better in motivating those around him on the pitch.

[Boss]

This myth of the 'Henry glare' scaring our players is a joke. Laughable that people still talk about it.

They're grown men ffs.

[Coney]

This myth of the 'Henry glare' scaring our players is a joke. Laughable that people still talk about it.

They're grown men ffs.

.. and girls.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This myth of the 'Henry glare' scaring our players is a joke. Laughable that people still talk about it.

They're grown men ffs.

It happened.

It was counterproductive.

[Marc Overmars]

It's not a myth. I think it was Cesc who said Henry was an intimidating figure for the team. I agree the players should have grown a pair but they obviously found it difficult to reach the impossibly high standards he had already set.

[Fist of Lehmann]

This myth of the 'Henry glare' scaring our players is a joke. Laughable that people still talk about it.

They're grown men ffs.Of course. Absolutely nothing can dent the supreme mental strength these grown men display week after week.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

It's not a myth. I think it was Cesc who said Henry was an intimidating figure for the team. I agree the players should have grown a pair but they obviously found it difficult to reach the impossibly high standards he had already set.

When this started. . . .it was probably the start of Wengers series of fails, he should have started to bring in a few stronger characters to quell Henrys supereme influence.

I can remember times when it seemed everything had to go through Henry that some were scared to play. . .

[Mr. Lahey]

Henry easily. His goalscoring record speaks for itself and the number of assists he racked up was impressive as well. Alot of people seem to forget that.

[Maestro]

DB10

A true Maestro

Nikos Dabizas can testify.... he was never the same after that.

[Niall_Quinn]

20 years ago we signed this genius and legend:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drScL8q956o

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70X8goHkONk

[Kano]

Henry.

Dennis had countless moments where you were just left wondering on the hell he managed to do what he just did. Bergkamp was the reclusive type, producing magic for his benefit first and foremost and if anyone happened to be around then that was just a bonus. If anyone had to pleased, then recognition from his peers was more important than crowd adulation.

Henry stayed at a level for 4/5 seasons where every time he was on the ball you expected something to happen. He electrified the crowd whenever he received it. He loved the attention and thrived on it, a player made for the fans, living up to the fantasies of the crowd, who wanted to live out their dream of beautiful goals being scored every week.

[Globalgunner]

If these 2 had played for other teams not the Arsenal I would have reluctantly had to choose. However since both played for Arsenal, both produced incredible moments that history will remember. Its like having to choose between DaVinci and Michelangelo, or Mozart, Bach and Beethoven. You simply cant choose. Much as i love Henry however, the thought of Bergies goal against Newcastle and his 1998 w/c goal against Argentina swings it for me. If you had to explain to a Martian what the obsession with football was all about. Just play him those two goals. Never bettered in poetry of motion and execution. The Iceman winneth.

[AFC Leveller]

Henry easily. His goalscoring record speaks for itself and the number of assists he racked up was impressive as well. Alot of people seem to forget that.

Henry for me, although Bergy is a legend.

Henry scored more, assisted more (i think) and won every single trophy so he shades it.

[fakeyank]

Henry wins it by a mile tbh...

[Penguin]

Heart says Bergkamp, head says Henry. Henry was just unplayable in his prime and was a little bit unlucky not to win a Ballon D'Or at least once.

Henry would have scored a lot less goals without Bergy as our number ten though!

[Letters]

Henry wins it by a mile tbh...

Not by a mile but IMO those two are a mile ahead of everyone else. For me it's:

Henry
Bergkamp
















Everyone else.

Cannot believe Henry didn't win the Ballon D'Or, IMO he was the best player on the planet for several years. Every week he'd do something worth the attendance fee.

[Marc Overmars]

Every time Henry got the ball you knew something explosive was about to happen, his level of consistency was unmatched at the time. By the age of 18, I had already seen the greatest Arsenal player of my lifetime.

Bergkamp was special too of course but the way I feel is;

Will we ever have another Bergkamp? Possibly.

Will we ever have another Henry? No.

[Bumble]

this is such a tough question. Both are legends. I think Bergkamp probably had a better brain and touch, but Henry could win a game on his own and had so much pace.

I think Henry probably just be more useful in this current team. But you are talking about probably 2 of the top 5 overseas players to ever play in the Premier League.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Henry for me.

The guy was actually the best player on the planet for several years with us. The fact he didn't a Balon D'or and ended up losing out to Pavel Nedved is still a fucking disgrace to this day. Fucking UEFA and their anti Premier League bias.

He carried such weight and presence with him; opposition defenders were absolutely terrified of facing him and would shit their pants when he ran at them. That fear alone probably caused them to make more mistakes and won us games when we weren't clicking.

Not only was his goals return phenomenal but his ratcheted up a ridiculous number of assists as well, often using his skill and pace to glide past people and serve up a tap in for a Bobby or Freddie. Only fake Ronaldo has come close to matching those sort of numbers in the league.

Oh what I'd give to have a player of his calibre up front for us right now. We'd storm the league easily with our midfield serving him.

[Globalgunner]

Henry for me.

The guy was actually the best player on the planet for several years with us. The fact he didn't a Balon D'or and ended up losing out to Pavel Nedved is still a fucking disgrace to this day. Fucking UEFA and their anti Premier League bias.

He carried such weight and presence with him; opposition defenders were absolutely terrified of facing him and would shit their pants when he ran at them. That fear alone probably caused them to make more mistakes and won us games when we weren't clicking.

Not only was his goals return phenomenal but his ratcheted up a ridiculous number of assists as well, often using his skill and pace to glide past people and serve up a tap in for a Bobby or Freddie. Only fake Ronaldo has come close to matching those sort of numbers in the league.

Oh what I'd give to have a player of his calibre up front for us right now. We'd storm the league easily with our midfield serving him.

Reminds me of those goals he scored against the Spuds and also against Pool, where he dribbled the entire back line before putting the ball in the net.

Carragher must shake like jelly just sitting next to Henry. The number of times Thierry has put him on his backside must be nightmarish.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Dennis Bergkamp was not a footballer, he would probably have been an architect, perhaps turning Amsterdam into a city renowned for modern design rather than canal houses and windmills. From a young age he was fascinated by dissecting angles, understanding shapes and, above all, how best to utilise space. He was also fascinated by movement: how balls bounce in certain ways when a particular spin is put on it and how to control every situation.

Outside his childhood home, just off the A10 motorway in the east Amsterdam suburbs, Bergkamp spent hours kicking a ball against a wall below his bedroom window. Understanding the physics, teaching himself. “Most of the time I was by myself, just kicking the ball against the wall, seeing how it bounces, how it comes back, just controlling it,” he recalls in Stillness and Speed. “I wasn’t obsessed, I was just very intrigued by how the ball moves, how the spin worked, what you could do with spin.” It is apt, then, that a spin – of both the ball and his body – is the lasting image of his career.

Bergkamp, now an assistant coach at Ajax, has always said his last-minute wonder goal against Argentina in the 1998 World Cup was his best. It was an exceptional moment and he, albeit with a touch of reluctance, has previously described it as perfect. For a man whose career was spent striving for perfection and abided by a mantra of constant improvement, his use of that word says a lot. But for all the magnificence of those three touches it ultimately did not result in success for his team. Holland were beaten on penalties in the semi-final by Brazil, subsequently finishing fourth behind Croatia, and he probably should not have played against Argentina having escaped a sending off for a nasty stamp on Yugoslavia’s Sinisa Mihajlovic in the previous round.

That is why there is a case for his other piece of individual brilliance, the pirouette goal away to Newcastle in March 2002, to be considered his best. It spurred Arsenal on to two pieces of silverware. Newcastle were title challengers that season, spending Christmas on top of the table, but Arsenal’s 2-0 win – the second was scored by Sol Campbell, predictably assisted by Bergkamp – knocked the stuffing out of them and Bobby Robson’s team stuttered to the finishing line and dropped to fourth. The following weekend the sides met again in the FA Cup quarter-final and though it finished 1-1, Arsenal won the replay 3-0 at Highbury when Bergkamp scored again.

The league goal was the catalyst for a bulldozing end to the season and ensured both Tony Adams and Lee Dixon signed off with a double. “It was very important because Newcastle were doing well at that time,” Bergkamp said at the end of the season. “Nobody really expected us to take the points at that stage. To score the first goal, to me that was one of the most important goals.”

This was a man who changed a club and some might say English football. When Bergkamp arrived at Arsenal as a £7.5m club-record signing following a miserable two seasons at Internazionale in June 1995, some of his new team-mates bowed at his greatness and chanted only semi-sarcastically ‘We are not worthy’ at the training ground. However, it was not until Arsène Wenger replaced Bruce Rioch and they rapidly transferred from boring, boring Arsenal to an attacking machine that combined power with flair, that Bergkamp was fully appreciated. Together they formed a dream partnership. In Bergkamp, Wenger had a player with the quality to base a game-plan around and a platform to build on. Simultaneously in Wenger, Bergkamp had a manager who would allow him freedom to express himself

The galvanising effect Bergkamp had on a squad still stuck in the days of play hard, work hard when he arrived has lived long in the memory. “Dennis Bergkamp was a really big name, we couldn’t wait to see him,” Ray Parlour says in Football’s Greatest. It took a few games for Bergkamp to bed in but soon his class became apparent and with Wenger’s arrival the following season Arsenal were awoken from their slumber and embarked on the club’s most successful period.

Ian Wright, whose relationship with Rioch was so fractured the striker asked for a transfer but stayed and ended up becoming the club’s all-time top scorer in no part thanks to the Dutchman’s assists, says Bergkamp is the “best signing Arsenal have made and ever will make”. Wright used to refer to him as the “messiah who is going to save us”. Thierry Henry loved “every single thing” about Bergkamp and concurs with Wright by saying he is the greatest he has played with despite taking to the same pitch as Lionel Messi at Barcelona.

So to St James’ Park and a decisive Saturday evening meeting between title challengers. Newcastle started strongly but the Arsenal defence weathered the storm, fighting off a succession of early attacks. Then, with pretty much their first chance, Bergkamp strikes. The fervent home support were silenced, their team carved open by a move of such quality that even the world’s greatest defenders were never going to stop the juggernaut.

Due to the individual brilliance of the goal, the buildup play is often under-appreciated. Or at least, it is not given the praise it deserves. It was a quintessential mid-Wenger era counterattack: blisteringly incisive, 15 seconds after Newcastle lose possession 10 yards from the Arsenal box, the ball is in the net. It begins with Patrick Vieira gaining possession in midfield and gliding forward, his long legs galloping ahead with that familiar deceptive grace. Vieira gives it to Bergkamp who, after a cursory glance around picks out Robert Pires on the left wing near the halfway line.

Pires dribbles forward menacingly while Newcastle, who had committed too many forward in search of a deadlock breaker, desperately retreat. At the bottom of the screen, you can see the top half of Bergkamp’s body as he charges forward, right arm raised, bellowing at Pires, who by now had lured two barcoded shirts, to give a return pass. The Frenchman looks up and spots his team-mate reaching the edge of the area with only Nikos Dabizas as protection for Shay Given in the Newcastle goal. He plays an exquisite 30-yard pass straight to Bergkamp, whose back is to goal when he receives it.

At this point the magic happens. Look at the positioning of his body: he anticipates Dabizas’s movement as Pires dispatches. Bergkamp has previously stated the goal had an element of luck on account of Dabizas standing a yard off him and because of that some, bafflingly, argue that it was not deliberate. “Ten yards before the ball arrived, I made my decision to turn the defender,” Bergkamp said in an interview with Four Four Two in 2011. He puts his left boot out and manipulates the ball in a way that it spins in a perfect arc around Dabizas’s right as Bergkamp turns on his left.

Martin Keown, the defender who Bergkamp regularly took great pleasure in winding up in the changing room, describes him as a ballet dancer due to his balance and flexibility. “I remember playing against Dennis [for England] in 1992 at Wembley against Holland and he scored an amazing goal and I thought he surely didn’t meant that, it was a bit flukey. But then when I got to work with him every day I realised he meant every bit of it.”

“I thought the ball was a little too much behind me so I had to turn to control it,” Bergkamp says of Pires’ pass. “The quickest way to turn the ball was going that way. It looked a bit special or strange or nice but for me it was the quickest way to the goal. The finish: it was just trying to get it past the goalkeeper in such a way he cannot reach it.”

Bergkamp’s insouciance only adds to its legendary status. Few would have pulled off such a nonchalant finish after producing a breathtaking piece of skill. Many would have fluffed their lines but not Bergkamp. He steadies himself after spinning the ball, displaying impressive strength to hold off Dabizas after turning, before coolly side-footing past a helpless Given. “Usually when you do something amazing you get carried away,” Henry said. “How many times did you see a guy do a great control and then rush the finish? Dennis did something amazing but then stayed composed. That’s the difference between great players and normal players.”

Some of those sat inside the ground did not fully appreciate it. The move was so rapid, so instinctive that it was not until replays were shown that the beauty was fully appreciated. There was a whiff of disbelief in Martin Tyler’s commentary until he was given a second chance to look at it. “It’s Bergkamp, it’s magnificent,” he says, before finally getting a fuller sense of how unique the move it was. “The move, then this,” he adds, placing quite a significant emphasis on the this, almost flabbergasted by the audacity of the first touch.

It is like he had never been seen and while imitations have been plentiful, such a clean manoeuvre has not been executed at an elite level since. It was voted Arsenal’s greatest goal in 2009 and considering some of those scored by Henry, not least the Frenchman’s turn and volley against Manchester United in October 2000, that is quite the feat.

But why were people shocked in the first place? That Bergkamp was able to improvise in such a manner should have been no surprise. He had a long history of producing unexpected, daring moments in games. There was the drag back and outside of the boot flick to Freddie Ljungberg against Juventus in the 2001 Champions League, coming from another counterattack started by Vieira. There were many deft lobs to leave goalkeepers looking foolish and the dream-like assists are countless.

Yet the statue of Bergkamp outside the Emirates depicts his first touch for Holland against Argentina rather than him spinning Dabizas. There had been attempts to model the pirouette but the designers said it was too complicated to replicate. “The whole move was inch perfect. It could have gone completely wrong but that time it worked,” Bergkamp said the following summer.

Amazingly Bergkamp says when he watched the footage of the goal it was unlike how he had remembered it at the time. “It looks quite different to what was in my mind. On TV you see the defender. I knew he was there, but I never saw him. I felt him a little bit, his presence, and I knew he was on this side,” he recalls in Stillness and Speed. “Generally, though, I don’t like tricks … it’s really not something on my mind.” Quite the self-effacing statement from a man whose trick remains, possibly, the most memorable in Premier League history.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jun/19/golden-goal-dennis-bergkamp-arsenal-newcastle-2002




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IicmCu47pMo

Did he mean it?

Watch his eyes as he completes the turn. He knows exactly where the ball is going to be.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Apples and Oranges

Henry was far more prolific in front of goal, Bergkamp made everyone around him in the team a better player

Still bit bitter that Henry used David Deins departure as his excuse for joining Barca, had he just said he wanted the opportunity to play for the best team in club football at the time actually would have respected that.

So by a nose, Dennis Bergkamp

[alexander]

Nearly impossible choice.
I was 15 when we signed Bergkamp, it was the start of something really special at arsenal that lasted 10 years and I watched one of the best teams we will ever see. Great times.
If I was pushed, henry would edge it, because like others have said, he was just so special and a match winner on his own, but Bergy just made that team tick.
happy memories of both, that coincided with a period of my life where I really cared about football and it meant so much to me. Dont ever think i will see such a great arsenal team again.

[Master Splinter]

Pires tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

Pires tbh.

Right up there with both of them.

Vieira was the best midfielder ever to play in the PL, another master.

We were spoiled rotten back then.