Did Walcott dive for the red card?

[Joker]

I think he did tbh. It's a bit of a shame that we needed a soft red card for the opposition before we started to impose ourselves, and it's a bit pathetic that Walcott would try to get a fellow professional sent off. It'll just give the media more ammunition to claim we're a team of cheaters.

[Marc Overmars]

Who cares?

Wouldn't be the first player and certainly won't be the last.

[Niall_Quinn]

Without a doubt, but who cares because everyone is doing it. I more care about the fact he preferred to hit the deck. Shows how much confidence he has in his abilities. His confidence is justified judging by his performance today. One of the few players I've seen who gets worse as he gains more experience.

[GP]

No. Clear foul.

[Injury Time]

I think he did tbh. It's a bit of a shame that we needed a soft red card for the opposition before we started to impose ourselves, and it's a bit pathetic that Walcott would try to get a fellow professional sent off. It'll just give the media more ammunition to claim we're a team of cheaters.
Shut yer face he's working on his GHEL status with Gerard as his role model, shame it's more like a little girl made of glass <_<

[Joker]

Without a doubt, but who cares because everyone is doing it. I more care about the fact he preferred to hit the deck. Shows how much confidence he has in his abilities. His confidence is justified judging by his performance today. One of the few players I've seen who gets worse as he gains more experience.

Exactly, if he controlled the ball he'd have a clear chance of a goal, but instead preferred to try and con the referee.

[Niall_Quinn]

Shut yer face he's working on his GHEL status with Gerard as his role model, shame it's more like a little girl made of glass <_<

If true, that was the most pathetic starfish I've ever seen. He had his arms by his side FFS.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZAkzP6zEx6s/TR596MNU4zI/AAAAAAAAAZA/Bvg1S2bhqXo/s1600/01jan2011_eboue_walcott.jpg

and his legacy lives on

[Master Splinter]

Ridiculous thread.

RVP played well though, didn't he?

[Joker]

Ridiculous thread.

RVP played well though, didn't he?

Not really ridiculous when even Arseblog also thought it was a dive.

[fakeyank]

It was a dive and I hope we continue this form of cheating in future games. We need all the luck we can get for our title push

[Injury Time]

If true, that was the most pathetic starfish I've ever seen. He had his arms by his side FFS.
He's making it in his own stylie I believe he calls it "The Salmon"

[Master Splinter]

Not really ridiculous when even Arseblog also thought it was a dive.

It is, because:

a) It wasn't a dive.

b) Who cares if he did? We've been done over by cheating opposition for years, yet you prefer to create a thread damning a player who contributed heavily to a good result.

[Joker]

It is, because:

a) It wasn't a dive.

b) Who cares if he did? We've been done over by cheating opposition for years, yet you prefer to create a thread damning a player who contributed heavily to a good result.

Here's a replay which shows it was a dive: http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xlaa1n

It matters because the press will make a big deal of it, and referees will become aware of Walcott's reputation, meaning we'll fail to get genuine fouls because referee's have in the back of their mind that Walcott has previous when it comes to diving.

[fakeyank]

Here's a replay which shows it was a dive: http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xlaa1n

It matters because the press will make a big deal of it, and referees will become aware of Walcott's reputation, meaning we'll fail to get genuine fouls because referee's have in the back of their mind that Walcott has previous when it comes to diving.

Its a good thing.. may be it'll give us the siege mentality of us against the world and we can rack up some wins.. COYG!

[Coney]

It if was good enough for the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney and Gerrard, it is good enough for Theo.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

glad he dived.

we need to be more cuntish. something we lack from the invincibles era who were dirty fuckers.

hope he does it again.

[Niall_Quinn]

Would prefer if he was good enough to shrug it off and smash the ball in the net.

But he's not so I suppose a dive is the best he could have achieved there.

[Syn]

Walcott was fouled and couldn't get to it so he stopped running and dropped to his knees. It was a partial dive because he didn't need to drop to his knees. Unfortunately these days - without video technology - you have to make it obvious to the referee that you were fouled, and Walcott did.Well played Theo. N.b. This is the only correct response. Cheers.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Here's a replay which shows it was a dive: http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xlaa1n

It matters because the press will make a big deal of it, and referees will become aware of Walcott's reputation, meaning we'll fail to get genuine fouls because referee's have in the back of their mind that Walcott has previous when it comes to diving.

Hey everyone.....we have our answer to what Joker was to complain about in the event of something he obviously didnt want to happen......an Arsenal win

shit mate.......what is with all the hate.......dont get enough of something

I was curious whether Walcott could have stayed up......but who gives a fuck, we won!

how worried would you have been if a freekick was won, scored and Arsenal won 1-0 things happen every week, for and against........for example at least one Blackburn goal tht was offside but we have to accept that......dont remember you starting a thread about that

[Coney]

Walcott was fouled and couldn't get to it so he stopped running and dropped to his knees. It was a partial dive because he didn't need to drop to his knees. Unfortunately these days - without video technology - you have to make it obvious to the referee that you were fouled, and Walcott did.Well played Theo. N.b. This is the only correct response. Cheers.

Indeed. While it is not my favourite kind of football, until FIFA/UEFA/FA do something about the diving and failure to try and stay up, players will continue to do this and you can either not do it and have a disadvantage over teams that do, or you just play the game according to the de facto rules in place at the moment.

If the powers stop this shit about not being able to do things afterwards if the ref has already dealt with the situation and apply retrospective yellows, reds and suspensions (not fines which are a waste of time) then this and other offences will continue. (This is if Theo was considered to have dived when not being fouled). They do not seem able to understand that correcting decisions in the cold light after a match when video from many angles can be studied - something the ref cannot do at the time - does NOT undermine the refs authority. Refs will still have to continue to do their best with what they perceive at the time. An odd mistake is to be expected and is nothing to be ashamed of. Pretending mistakes have not happened, however, is something they should be ashamed of.

So while Theo might have been able to stay up, he was correctly playing the game according to the current interpretation/application of the rules. Wheater knows full well that if he pulls back a player in that circumstance, the player is likely to go down - the ref might see it anyway - and he is going to get sent off. The fact is, Theo was fouled by his shirt being grabbed, so whether he went down or not, Wheater committed a dismissable offence. End of story.

[Cripps_orig]

No

Although i say this based on reputation alone and not cos ive seen it

[Daniele]

he did not. he lost his balance when Wheater pulled him by his arm.

[Ollie the Optimist]

ive seen and there is a blatent tug. clear foul

[Niall_Quinn]

One thing we know for sure, the kid's a pansy. Hopefully Oxo has a pair of balls and can do a better job for us.

[gunnerrrrr]

when you play the game at that speed, not sunday league, the slightest touch an unbalance you, let alone someone pulling you back...not a chance was it a dive

[Niall_Quinn]

when you play the game at that speed, not sunday league, the slightest touch an unbalance you, let alone someone pulling you back...not a chance was it a dive

Course it was. It was a foul too, but the way he collapsed was pretty pathetic, especially considering the goal was clear in front of him. He didn't do himself any favours if he wants to play in the centre.

[Ollie the Optimist]

One thing we know for sure, the kid's a pansy. Hopefully Oxo has a pair of balls and can do a better job for us.

he was pulled back so what can you do? blatent foul and straight red

[Niall_Quinn]

he was pulled back so what can you do? blatent foul and straight red

Already told you, play Oxo.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Already told you, play Oxo.

ox would have gone down too. he was pulled back. foul. you can have a go at walcott for many other things like fucking up the one on one which was shocking but not this red card thing

[Niall_Quinn]

ox would have gone down too. he was pulled back. foul. you can have a go at walcott for many other things like fucking up the one on one which was shocking but not this red card thing

The red card was fine, it was a foul. All I'm saying is a guy who wants to be a striker isn't doing himself any favours by choosing to go down when then path to goal is open. It's not the best character trait, strikers should be gagging to get a strike on goal, you don't get that impression with Walcott. He's had long enough to step up and he hasn't. He spends most of his energies yapping away in the papers. Try again with Oxo, see if we can get the player we though Walcott was going to be.

[Cripps_orig]

Saw it on MoTD.Pretty clear foul.With RVPs goals and now this thread, bit of a shocker from Joker today

[Power n Glory]

It was a foul and he was being tugged back. If he doesn't go down no foul is called even though the guy had his hands on him to stop his run.

Lay off the kid. I got us our 10 man advantage and lead to a comfortable win. It was the right decision from Theo and the ref.

[Letters]

It's a bit of a shame that we needed a soft red card for the opposition before we started to impose ourselves

We didn't.
We were 1-0 up and Theo was about to be clean through (he'd have missed, obviously, he was having a 'mare).
I don't know if it was a dive, at the time I thought it was a foul but I've not seen a repeat.
But we were good in the 2nd half yesterday and we were already imposing ourselves before they went down to 10 men.

[AKBapologist]

Funny thing is, Joker would have made a thread bitching about why Walcott didn't dive. Can't really win with fuckers like him tbh. Pathetic.

[Joker]

Funny thing is, Joker would have made a thread bitching about why Walcott didn't dive. Can't really win with fuckers like him tbh. Pathetic.

:lol: what a load of bollocks. If he'd stayed on his feet and finished to make it 2-0 it would have been a statement from Walcott that he can play as a striker, and is hungry for goals rather than taking the easy option.

[AKBapologist]

Your a load of bollocks tbh.

[Özim]

:lol: what a load of bollocks. If he'd stayed on his feet and finished to make it 2-0 it would have been a statement from Walcott that he can play as a striker, and is hungry for goals rather than taking the easy option.
He can't play as striker, it's people clutching as straws due to the fact he's rubbish on the wing too.

His finishing is not very good as shown yesterday, he's very hit and miss. He just doesn't have to ability to star at this level and there lies the problem.

He's had ample time to show his worth (5 years+) but it seems he gets longer because he's English.

[Joker]

Your a load of bollocks tbh.

My what is a load of bollocks?

[AKBapologist]

He can't play as striker, it's people clutching as straws due to the fact he's rubbish on the wing too.

His finishing is not very good as shown yesterday, he's very hit and miss. He just doesn't have to ability to star at this level and there lies the problem.

He's had ample time to show his worth (5 years+) but it seems he gets longer because he's English.
Although he created more chances than anyone else and assisted RVP's 2nd. I don't personally see him as a striker, but ask what the hell was Ashley Young doing at 22?

It's the same muppets that rated/still rate Aaron Lennon above Walcott, trying to use the most pathetic things to confirm there own points of view, in a vain attempt to convince themselves that they still know something about football. :lol:

[Özim]

Although he created more chances than anyone else and assisted RVP's 2nd. I don't personally see him as a striker, but ask what the hell was Ashley Young doing at 22?

It's the same muppets that rated/still rate Aaron Lennon above Walcott, trying to us the most pathetic things to confirm there own points of view, in a vain attempt to convince themselves that they still know something about football. :lol:
Ashley Young has always been very good IMO, in fact I wanted us to sign him last summer. Moreover he didn't start his development at a top club at the age Theo did.

As for Walcott he's shit almost every time he plays, a few assists can't mask that.

Different players though, Young is pace, skill, a good crosser and just a dangerous player, Walcott just has pace.

You call people like me muppets and yet my predictions about Wenger and his team are pretty much spot on, jokes on you I'd say :lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

:lol: what a load of bollocks. If he'd stayed on his feet and finished to make it 2-0 it would have been a statement from Walcott that he can play as a striker, and is hungry for goals rather than taking the easy option.

the thing is though i dont think he would have got to the ball cos he was pulled back or if he had i doubt he would have scored not cos he couldnt his a cows arse with a banjo but cos keeper would have been there. he had everyright to go down cos it was a clear foul

[Ollie the Optimist]

Ashley Young has always been very good IMO, in fact I wanted us to sign him last summer. Moreover he didn't start his development at a top club at the age Theo did.

As for Walcott he's shit almost every time he plays, a few assists can't mask that.

Different players though, Young is pace, skill, a good crosser and just a dangerous player, Walcott just has pace.

You call people like me muppets and yet my predictions about Wenger and his team are pretty much spot on, jokes on you I'd say :lol:

ill disagree with one thing here, walcott can cross. last week against blackburn he put some very dangerous crosses in, of course this overlooked cos noone is there but same yesterday he put some dangerous ones in too. hes a good crosser but agree with the rest

[Power n Glory]

Ashley Young has always been very good IMO, in fact I wanted us to sign him last summer. Moreover he didn't start his development at a top club at the age Theo did.

As for Walcott he's shit almost every time he plays, a few assists can't mask that.

Different players though, Young is pace, skill, a good crosser and just a dangerous player, Walcott just has pace.

You call people like me muppets and yet my predictions about Wenger and his team are pretty much spot on, jokes on you I'd say :lol:

Walcott could score a hat trick next week and you'd still say he'a shit.

[Özim]

Walcott could score a hat trick next week and you'd still say he'a shit.
He won't though will he because he's injured (another problem with having him).

At the end of the day I just want to see quality footballers at the club, don't care if they're English or not, Oxo for example looks to have masses of abilty IMO, but Walcott just doesn't, if he did that would be great but I think 5 years+ proves he doesn't.

You're a pretty good poster to be honest and I agree with most of what you say, but you seem to have a soft spot for Walcott despite him not really delivering.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Walcott could score a hat trick next week and you'd still say he'a shit.


loads did when he did last year :lol:

[AKBapologist]

Ashley Young has always been very good IMO, in fact I wanted us to sign him last summer. Moreover he didn't start his development at a top club at the age Theo did.

As for Walcott he's shit almost every time he plays, a few assists can't mask that.

Different players though, Young is pace, skill, a good crosser and just a dangerous player, Walcott just has pace.

You call people like me muppets and yet my predictions about Wenger and his team are pretty much spot on, jokes on you I'd say :lol:
It doesn't matter where a player starts his development, and who's fault is it that he didn't join a top club sooner?

Oh, not that Young never dives in stead of "taking the easy option."

This whole thread is a sorry pathetic microcosim of just how jilted GW has become.

[AKBapologist]

loads did when he did last year :lol:

Blackpool where an easy team tbh. :coffee:

Although Ian Holloway would do better than AW at Arsenal.

[Özim]

It doesn't matter where a player starts his development, and who's fault is it that he didn't join a top club sooner?

Oh, not that Young never dives in stead of "taking the easy option."

This whole thread is a sorry pathetic microcosim of just how jilted GW has become.
Just to be clear I don't care whether he dives or not (though players get crucified for doing it on hear and it's not good sportmanship), I'm more interested in how good he is on the pitch.

You were comparing Young and Walcott, my point was that Walcott has had longer playing alongside better players than Young, but they're chalk and cheese IMO because almost everytime I see Young he looks a threat and when he's on his A game he's unstoppable.

[AKBapologist]

You call people like me muppets and yet my predictions about Wenger and his team are pretty much spot on, jokes on you I'd say :lol:
Yep, a true gooner takes satisfaction in predicting the downfall of his club.

Muppet.

[Özim]

Yep, a true gooner takes satisfaction in predicting the downfall of his club.

Muppet.
Satisfaction you say?

No but I will be satisfied when that joker at the helm finally disappears, because he's the reason we're in this mess.

Could have been so different if we had someone who was willing to adapt and accept his and his teams weaknesses/mistakes.

[AKBapologist]

Just to be clear I don't care whether he dives or not (though players get crucified for doing it on hear and it's not good sportmanship), I'm more interested in how good he is on the pitch.

You were comparing Young and Walcott, my point was that Walcott has had longer playing alongside better players than Young, but they're chalk and cheese IMO because almost everytime I see Young he looks a threat and when he's on his A game he's unstoppable.
You form your opinions on how many step overs a player does and rarely on actual objective results.
Also, you complain about how Young never got to play in a big club earlier, then later you'll complain about how Arsene isn't actually that good at developing players, these days when ever I unhide anything you say it's just "bollocks bollocks, bollocking bollocks, I hate Wenger, bollocks, more bollocks with extra bollocks."

Walcott isn't a flair player, but he can be effective and is already a big player for us. So get over it.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Walcott isn't a flair player, but he can be effective and is already a big player for us. So get over it.

disagree to an extent, he is a big player at the moment but if he stays like he is now and ox improves massively and plays like he did for CC and eng u21's theo will find himself dropped very quickly. he needs to improve big time and quickly to keep his place

[Cripps_orig]

Although he created more chances than anyone else and assisted RVP's 2nd. I don't personally see him as a striker, but ask what the hell was Ashley Young doing at 22?

It's the same muppets that rated/still rate Aaron Lennon above Walcott, trying to us the most pathetic things to confirm there own points of view, in a vain attempt to convince themselves that they still know something about football. :lol:

Theo is better than Young.

Dont think theres any disputing that. Sure Young had a couple of good games for Mancs at the start of the season including v us but he was largely shit for Villa and since ive put him in my FFL team, hes done f all for Mancs either so hes back to normal.

Theo at 22 is better than what Young was at 22. In fact, Theo at 22 is better than Young now.

[AKBapologist]

disagree to an extent, he is a big player at the moment but if he stays like he is now and ox improves massively and plays like he did for CC and eng u21's theo will find himself dropped very quickly. he needs to improve big time and quickly to keep his place
Meh, between injuries and rotation, both should get plenty of game time. The less we can rely on one player the better.

[Power n Glory]

He won't though will he because he's injured (another problem with having him).At the end of the day I just want to see quality footballers at the club, don't care if they're English or not, Oxo for example looks to have masses of abilty IMO, but Walcott just doesn't, if he did that would be great but I think 5 years+ proves he doesn't.You're a pretty good poster to be honest and I agree with most of what you say, but you seem to have a soft spot for Walcott despite him not really delivering. You need to look at the facts. He set up the second goal and made the run that reduced Bolton to 10 men. Is that nothing? He created a couple of chances for RVP and should have scored himself. But you have some serious amnesia when it comes to Walcott. He scored a hat trick last season and was one our top scorers. This season he's bagged a few goals as well and shown how good a finisher he is for the Champs League goals.

I'm consistent with my argument and I've said from years back that Walcott should play as a striker because you can just see from his movement that it's his natural position. Wenger thinks so, Wright thinks so and Theo thinks so. Another point I keep making is the side of the pitch he plays on and for someone that watches so much football I can't understand why you can't grasp it or keep ignoring it. Play Theo down the left like how Henry and Pires played and he'd score with ease and be more comfortable. You see how Ashely Young plays for Manure and you've watched Arsenal for years. When a right footer is coming in from the right on goal, it's harder for him to score if he hasn't got a great left foot. We saw it in the final of the Barca game with Henry fluffing his chance. Strikers can miss those opportunities if they're coming on on their weaker foot.

As I keep saying on here, Wenger plays too many players out of position. Theo is one of them but if you check my posts, I'll say the same about Arsahvin playing on the flanks or when Wenger had Cesc playing too far up field with Wilshere sitting deep. I don't think Arshavin is a rubbish player, he's just being used wrong and when I think about Walcott, it's the same thought process.

[Özim]

Theo is better than Young.

Dont think theres any disputing that. Sure Young had a couple of good games for Mancs at the start of the season including v us but he was largely shit for Villa and since ive put him in my FFL team, hes done f all for Mancs either so hes back to normal.

Theo at 22 is better than what Young was at 22. In fact, Theo at 22 is better than Young now.
Only in the lands of dreams I'm afraid.

Thing Young has proven his worth, that's how he earnt a move to the all conquering Man U side and why he's now delivering for them.

He's in a different league to Walcott, much more talent, Walcott is just pace.

[Cripps_orig]

Only in the lands of dreams I'm afraid.

Thing Young has proven his worth, that's how he earnt a move to the all conquering Man U side and why he's now delivering for them.

He's in a different league to Walcott, much more talent, Walcott is just pace.

Walcott scores more and makes more.

Young whips in a good cross from time to time and um....err oh scores a blinder once a blue moon and um thats about it

[Özim]

You need to look at the facts. He set up the second goal and made the run that reduced Bolton to 10 men. Is that nothing? He created a couple of chances for RVP and should have scored himself. But you have some serious amnesia when it comes to Walcott. He scored a hat trick last season and was one our top scorers. This season he's bagged a few goals as well and shown how good a finisher he is for the Champs League goals.

I'm consistent with my argument and I've said from years back that Walcott should play as a striker because you can just see from his movement that it's his natural position. Wenger thinks so, Wright thinks so and Theo thinks so. Another point I keep making is the side of the pitch he plays on and for someone that watches so much football I can't understand why you can't grasp it or keep ignoring it. Play Theo down the left like how Henry and Pires played and he'd score with ease and be more comfortable. You see how Ashely Young plays for Manure and you've watched Arsenal for years. When a right footer is coming in from the right on goal, it's harder for him to score if he hasn't got a great left foot. We saw it in the final of the Barca game with Henry fluffing his chance. Strikers can miss those opportunities if they're coming on on their weaker foot.

As I keep saying on here, Wenger plays too many players out of position. Theo is one of them but if you check my posts, I'll say the same about Arsahvin playing on the flanks or when Wenger had Cesc playing too far up field with Wilshere sitting deep. I don't think Arshavin is a rubbish player, he's just being used wrong and when I think about Walcott, it's the same thought process.
You mean stats surely.

Problem with stats as mentioned many times before is that they don't show how much a player was involved and what elese he did, most people on here pretty much agree he was shite yesterday and yet the stats you point to seems to say he performed well.

I've never thought he was a good finisher and I stand by that, over the years he's missed a lot of easy chances when 5 yards away from goal which a good finisher would have put away, yesterday he missed an easy chance where he was all alone and had an age to decide what to do, what does he do? You guess it shoots lamely straight at the keeper....and this is far from a one off.

I know you've argued he should play up front, but IMO (and Shearer's and he should know as he's one of the best finishers every to play in Englan) his finishing isn't good enough.

You see your argument falls down because you think that just because someone is out of position they can show their ability, that's not true, I agree they won't be as effective as they could be but you would still see signs of talent.

IMO Walcott shows none of that, he's just pace and when you lump it over the top he'll chase it and probably win the chase but who wouldn't if they were quicker that another player?

Arshavin is a massive talent, you can see that even if he's not at his most effective where he plays, he still dribbles and tries to score goals and looks dangerous. Walcott lacks the talent.

[Özim]

Walcott scores more and makes more.

Young whips in a good cross from time to time and um....err oh scores a blinder once a blue moon and um thats about it
Young is a better crosser, uses his pace better, is a better dribbler and seems to have a better shot. Walcott has got pace and that's pretty much it, he does get chances but he fluffs a fair few as well, no striker is perfect of course but he's not a good enough finisher to play up front.

I'd take Young over Walcott any time of the week, pretty sure Ferguson would as well. I said in the summer Young will be a real weapon for Man U as his pace will change their game back to how it ws when Ronaldo was around, it seems to have already happened, faster than even I thought.

[Cripps_orig]

Young is a better crosser, uses his pace better, is a better dribbler and seems to have a better shot. Walcott has got pace and that's pretty much it, he does get chances but he fluffs a fair few as well, no striker is perfect of course but he's not a good enough finisher to play up front.

I'd take Young over Walcott any time of the week, pretty sure Ferguson would as well. I said in the summer Young will be a real weapon for Man U as his pace will change their game back to how it ws when Ronaldo was around, it seems to have already happened, faster than even I thought.

Mancs game is centred around Rooney. He didnt play yesterday and they should have lost as Stoke dominated.

Young like i said had a good start but has done f all for the past few games. Yes they have won but thats more down to Rooney than anything Young did.

Poor mans Theo. Has been for a while.

[Özim]

Mancs game is centred around Rooney. He didnt play yesterday and they should have lost as Stoke dominated.

Young like i said had a good start but has done f all for the past few games. Yes they have won but thats more down to Rooney than anything Young did.

Poor mans Theo. Has been for a while.
We'll agree to disagree, in time you'll see Walcott will amount to nothing for us whereas Young will just get better and better.

[Power n Glory]

You mean stats surely.

Problem with stats as mentioned many times before is that they don't show how much a player was involved and what elese he did, most people on here pretty much agree he was shite yesterday and yet the stats you point to seems to say he performed well.

I've never thought he was a good finisher and I stand by that, over the years he's missed a lot of easy chances when 5 yards away from goal which a good finisher would have put away, yesterday he missed an easy chance where he was all alone and had an age to decide what to do, what does he do? You guess it shoots lamely straight at the keeper....and this is far from a one off.

I know you've argued he should play up front, but IMO (and Shearer's and he should know as he's one of the best finishers every to play in Englan) his finishing isn't good enough.

You see your argument falls down because you think that just because someone is out of position they can show their ability, that's not true, I agree they won't be as effective as they could be but you would still see signs of talent.

IMO Walcott shows none of that, he's just pace and when you lump it over the top he'll chase it and probably win the chase but who wouldn't if they were quicker that another player?

Arshavin is a massive talent, you can see that even if he's not at his most effective where he plays, he still dribbles and tries to score goals and looks dangerous. Walcott lacks the talent.

That's a poor post. How many players in our squad at his age have made a difference in games? Goals and assists against top European teams? Last season he scorer 13 goals with 8 assists.

Vela plays out of position on the left and technically that kid is good but he has struggled badly here. Eduardo was struggling when he played out wide for us and when he was playing as a loan striker. Play any player in the wrong position and they lose a percentage of their game, it's common knowledge. Strikers miss chances, it happens. You can side with Shearer, I agree with Ian Wright. He's better making off the ball runs than dribbling with the ball at his feet. If you paid attention, then you'd see that. We'll dead this conversation because we'll end up going in circles. Just don't go missing when Theo scores his next goal or sets another up as you usually do.

If Theo was shit against Bolton then what about the rest of our attackers? They produced nothing.

[Cripps_orig]

We'll agree to disagree, in time you'll see Walcott will amount to nothing for us whereas Young will just get better and better.

Young is what, 26? Doubt he'll get much better than what he is now and what he is now is pretty average. Has his good games sure but plenty of shit ones. He was awful last season where he was outshone by Downing, yes Downing whos shite.

Theo at 22 will get better and better. Had a good game yesterday and more of that will be welcomed. Hoping the Oxface pub teamer can be as good as Theo

[Coney]

People are dissing Theo for some of his misses and mis-reading of what to do. Fair enough - he makes mistakes. However, I bet a lot of the same people are saying how good this or that player is for some other team based on the stats of how many goals they score per match. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Walcott has already scored 3 goals this season which is not bad for a player on the wing, to say the least. If he maintains that rate (which he has achieved while we were mostly playing utter shit) he is on for 18-20 goals in the season which is a decent rate of scoring.

[Niall_Quinn]

He can't play as striker, it's people clutching as straws due to the fact he's rubbish on the wing too.

This. Walcott hasn't realised his potential. He's too stupid to play football. He has plenty of weapons but doesn't know how to use them and, more importantly, doesn't seem to learn either from experience or the many, many mistakes he repeatedly makes. Sad but true. Walcott will not get any better than he is now, which is far too inconsistent to play in a top team.

As for the comparison between Walcott and Young. Please. Young can do the basics well and he has a bit more on top, not the best player ever but coming into his prime. The way he has settled at Utd is impressive. Walcott, on the other hand, can luck his way into pulling off the odd trick but he hasn't even mastered the basics yet and I doubt he ever will.

The best thing about Walcott was he was level headed and seemed to have his feet planted. Now he's a big-mouth, always ready to spout more shit. He seems to see himself as a team leader, probably based more on who has left and certainly rather than what he's contributed and achieved.

I wouldn't be upset to see this guy go in the summer.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Theo was shit against Bolton then what about the rest of our attackers? They produced nothing.

RvP? He had a great, all round strikers performance. Theo will never be able to play at that level.

[Power n Glory]

RvP? He had a great, all round strikers performance. Theo will never be able to play at that level.

Besides RVP and I didn't hear such talk last season. Short memory.

[Boss]

Walcott is less technically skilled than probably 90% of our team, and still hasn't learned any way to beat players other than to knock the ball past them and run. When he loses his pace he'll be a useless player.

That said, he is becoming increasingly effective and allows us to stretch the play. His contribution towards goals and assists speak for themselves. We're playing him in the perfect formation but for some reason on the wrong side of it and he'd get more goals if he was cutting in. He does need to work on his handling of 1v1 situations - he can finish as we've seen but for some reason he chokes about 50% of the time.

All in all I think Walcott is a good weapon to have and it's vital we keep using him. However I do think it is rare he'll create a goal out of nothing and he'll never be a world class player. We should be working on developing AOC asap.

[Coney]

Walcott is less technically skilled than probably 90% of our team, and still hasn't learned any way to beat players other than to knock the ball past them and run. When he loses his pace he'll be a useless player.

That said, he is becoming increasingly effective and allows us to stretch the play. His contribution towards goals and assists speak for themselves. We're playing him in the perfect formation but for some reason on the wrong side of it and he'd get more goals if he was cutting in. He does need to work on his handling of 1v1 situations - he can finish as we've seen but for some reason he chokes about 50% of the time.

All in all I think Walcott is a good weapon to have and it's vital we keep using him. However I do think it is rare he'll create a goal out of nothing and he'll never be a world class player. We should be working on developing AOC asap.

Most strikers choke 50% of the time. People remember all their goals and not their misses.

[Champagne Charlie]

I agree Walcott’s inconsistency can frustrating at times, but I’m genuinely starting to feel sorry for the guy. He can’t seem to do anything right in some peoples eyes.

People heap so much pressure on the guy its unreal, particularly at the Emirates. Every time he gets the ball the expectancy amongst the fans goes sky high and unless he scores or creates a goal scoring opportunity then suddenly he’s “shit, clueless, not got a football brain” and other such bollocks.

Honestly I think if the fans could get off his back for a while and actually support the guy (even if he makes the despicable error of being tackled!) then he might actually flourish and begin to fulfil his potential on a more regular basis.

[dazthegooner]

Most strikers choke 50% of the time. People remember all their goals and not their misses.

:gp: remember Henry he missed loads of sitters and look how many goals he scored.

[Boss]

Henry didn't miss 'loads of sitters' relative to the goals he scored.

And there's a difference between having a good shot and missing (which is what top strikers do) compared to choking under the pressure (Henry CL final 2006, and Walcott every other game, for example).

[Flavs]

of course he cheated he is a sly little bastard that one, you have to watch him, he is like a slightly chinese looking Lewis Hamilton.

[Master Splinter]

Gervinho and Walcott have been swapping sides quite regularly in the games they've played together. To good effect as well. They probably both trust each other to swap at the right time. In fact, the Gervinho - RVP - Walcott front three is pretty fluid and should get better the more they all play together.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

of course he cheated he is a sly little bastard that one, you have to watch him, he is like a slightly chinese looking Lewis Hamilton.

"Don't touch me man, dont touch me........or I'll dive my car into you"

[Özim]

Henry didn't miss 'loads of sitters' relative to the goals he scored.

And there's a difference between having a good shot and missing (which is what top strikers do) compared to choking under the pressure (Henry CL final 2006, and Walcott every other game, for example).
Pretty much, people still try and bring up Henry when referring to Walnut...chalk and cheese...one was world class and scored a hatful of goals, the other is hyped up to be world class and only scores a hatful in his dreams!

[fakeyank]

Gervinho and Walcott have been swapping sides quite regularly in the games they've played together. To good effect as well. They probably both trust each other to swap at the right time. In fact, the Gervinho - RVP - Walcott front three is pretty fluid and should get better the more they all play together.

Not going to happen with the injury record of Wally and RVP.. Chakma should fit right in!

[Cripps_orig]

Pretty much, people still try and bring up Henry when referring to Walnut...chalk and cheese...one was world class and scored a hatful of goals, the other is hyped up to be world class and only scores a hatful in his dreams!

Henry was a bit shit at 22 though

Good Wenger bought him and turned him in to the 2nd best Arsenal player of all time.

Theo is unfortunate he has Cunt Wenger coaching him. Nevertheless, still pretty damn good. Harry for coaching him at Southampton :bow:

[Dog Toffee]

THE best. Bergkamp didnt have his pace, power, goalscoring/assist record, Hence Bergkamp<Henry.

[Cripps_orig]

THE best. Bergkamp didnt have his pace, power, goalscoring/assist record, Hence Bergkamp<Henry.

Where did Bergkamp come from?

The best is Chamakh

[Power n Glory]

Henry didn't miss 'loads of sitters' relative to the goals he scored.

And there's a difference between having a good shot and missing (which is what top strikers do) compared to choking under the pressure (Henry CL final 2006, and Walcott every other game, for example).

As a striker, Henry would get more chances to score even if he missed an early chance. The team are always looking to feed him the ball and he'd probably take more shots in goal than anyone else in the team. Theo rarely gets those one on one chances and in most cases, he finishes them if he's coming in on his right foot. It was the same for his first goal for us against Chelsea and it was the same for that one on one he scored in the Champs League.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kljepl6Ierk

Watch the difference between Walcott when he's coming in from the centre or left on his right foot and when he's coming in from the right on his right foot. Watch from 30' from when he takes on the Blackburn players on the right and curls his shot wide and on to 49' where he's on the left then lifts and bends it around the keeper. That's the difference I'm talking about. To score that Blackburn goal, Theo would have had to gone for a power shot and not a side footer finesse shot. Fifa and Pro Evo players should know what I mean. :lol: He'd have to start hitting low drive shots with the lace or outside of the boot like the goal we saw last season when he broke the net. That's difficult and I rarely see many midfield players get those sort of goals. The keeper can always get a touch on those sort of shots but when your bending it around him, he has no chance. Ade and Henry used to bend it around the keeper all the time.

Any who....that's my case. Look at Henry and Ade's goal compilations and see how many goals they scored approaching from the right side and on their weaker foot.

[Dog Toffee]

Where did Bergkamp come from?

The best is Chamakh

Bergkamp came from Holland. Everyone knows that.

[Cripps_orig]

Bergkamp came from Holland. Everyone knows that.

We bought him from Italy tbh

[Boss]

As a striker, Henry would get more chances to score even if he missed an early chance. The team are always looking to feed him the ball and he'd probably take more shots in goal than anyone else in the team. Theo rarely gets those one on one chances and in most cases, he finishes them if he's coming in on his right foot. It was the same for his first goal for us against Chelsea and it was the same for that one on one he scored in the Champs League.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kljepl6Ierk

Watch the difference between Walcott when he's coming in from the centre or left on his right foot and when he's coming in from the right on his right foot. Watch from 30' from when he takes on the Blackburn players on the right and curls his shot wide and on to 49' where he's on the left then lifts and bends it around the keeper. That's the difference I'm talking about. To score that Blackburn goal, Theo would have had to gone for a power shot and not a side footer finesse shot. Fifa and Pro Evo players should know what I mean. :lol: He'd have to start hitting low drive shots with the lace or outside of the boot like the goal we saw last season when he broke the net. That's difficult and I rarely see many midfield players get those sort of goals. The keeper can always get a touch on those sort of shots but when your bending it around him, he has no chance. Ade and Henry used to bend it around the keeper all the time.

Any who....that's my case. Look at Henry and Ade's goal compilations and see how many goals they scored approaching from the right side and on their weaker foot.

I agree with your point but he can still only score in one way, 1v1 against the keeper coming in from the left. Anything else and he usually chokes. It doesn't matter what his preferred position is, if he doesn't add variety he will be stuck in the position he is now. As you said, Henry preferred cutting in from the left and shooting but he could still score from any side of the box at any angle should he need to; Walcott can't.

He'll never be able to belt in a 20 yarder or win headers in the box. His weaker foot is abysmal.

Granted he can put in a good cross (at times) even though we don't have anyone to take advantage of that.

I want to see a change from him given that he has potential to be used as a proper game changer for us but I still can't understand the calls for him to play up front when there's less space, he has no close control and would be easily marked out of the game by any top notch defender.

Wing forward is the best position from him but he really needs to improve his performances or he'll be out of the first team as soon as AOC is ready.

[Power n Glory]

I agree with your point but he can still only score in one way, 1v1 against the keeper coming in from the left. Anything else and he usually chokes. It doesn't matter what his preferred position is, if he doesn't add variety he will be stuck in the position he is now. As you said, Henry preferred cutting in from the left and shooting but he could still score from any side of the box at any angle should he need to; Walcott can't.

He'll never be able to belt in a 20 yarder or win headers in the box. His weaker foot is abysmal.

Granted he can put in a good cross (at times) even though we don't have anyone to take advantage of that.

I want to see a change from him given that he has potential to be used as a proper game changer for us but I still can't understand the calls for him to play up front when there's less space, he has no close control and would be easily marked out of the game by any top notch defender.

Wing forward is the best position from him but he really needs to improve his performances or he'll be out of the first team as soon as AOC is ready.

You mean like when Theo has chipped the keeper or taken it with his left foot? Henry came here and has said himself that he had to relearn how to become a striker. He wasn't that confident on his left foot and he was never any good in the air. The Barca miss in the final is a prime example, if that had been on the right, I'd have been confident he'd finish, but on the left, he was never that confident. He could score from that side, but he was never as consistent on that foot or side compared to the right.

It's the same for RVP. On his left foot, you see the confidence but only over the past few seasons, he's started using his 'chocolate' leg and you'd never see him lace one in with his right like how he does with his left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTebxpuryvI

Here is Henry's goal compilation. A great variety of goals like you said, but the bulk are from him wrapping them around the keeper with his right foot. Even the belted shots. Wenger should be playing Theo down that same left hand side so he can drift in.

[Özim]

You mean like when Theo has chipped the keeper or taken it with his left foot? Henry came here and has said himself that he had to relearn how to become a striker. He wasn't that confident on his left foot and he was never any good in the air. The Barca miss in the final is a prime example, if that had been on the right, I'd have been confident he'd finish, but on the left, he was never that confident. He could score from that side, but he was never as consistent on that foot or side compared to the right.

It's the same for RVP. On his left foot, you see the confidence but only over the past few seasons, he's started using his 'chocolate' leg and you'd never see him lace one in with his right like how he does with his left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTebxpuryvI

Here is Henry's goal compilation. A great variety of goals like you said, but the bulk are from him wrapping them around the keeper with his right foot. Even the belted shots. Wenger should be playing Theo down that same left hand side so he can drift in.
You gotta stop with the Henry comparisons to be honest because they're ridiculous.

You say Henry had to relearn how to play up front and yet he played a handful of matches before scoring and ended up with what was it 26 goals in his first season?

Also I saw Henry in the World Cup in 98 he was pretty potent even then from the wing, he ended up at Juve not long after based on his performances on top of that. The comparisons with Walcott are laughable, for some odd reason you seem to love this guy and fail to see his shortcomings which are on show pretty much every time he plays.

He's nothing special and never will be and he doesn't have the talent to be even mentioned in the same breath as Henry, Walcott constantly goes missing and fluffs more chances than one cares to count...and after what over 5 years you'd think he'd be a lot better than he is considering he's apparently a "top talent".

All he's proved so far is how overrated he is to be honest. I think you'll find a lot of people who wouldn't be too bothered if he left, that's how much he's impressed since he arrived,yes he's English but so what it doesn't make him more special because he is, he should be judged on performances and based on those his career has flopped so far.

If someone came in and offered 10-12 million for him I'd say take it and re-invest, they won't of course because nobody is particularly interested in a player who never seems to deliver.

[Power n Glory]

You gotta stop with the Henry comparisons to be honest because they're ridiculous.

You say Henry had to relearn how to play up front and yet he played a handful of matches before scoring and ended up with what was it 26 goals in his first season?

Also I saw Henry in the World Cup in 98 he was pretty potent even then from the wing, he ended up at Juve not long after based on his performances on top of that. The comparisons with Walcott are laughable, for some odd reason you seem to love this guy and fail to see his shortcomings which are on show pretty much every time he plays.

He's nothing special and never will be and he doesn't have the talent to be even mentioned in the same breath as Henry, Walcott constantly goes missing and fluffs more chances than one cares to count...and after what over 5 years you'd think he'd be a lot better than he is considering he's apparently a "top talent".

All he's proved so far is how overrated he is to be honest. I think you'll find a lot of people who wouldn't be too bothered if he left, that's how much he's impressed since he arrived,yes he's English but so what it doesn't make him more special because he is, he should be judged on performances and based on those his career has flopped so far.

If someone came in and offered 10-12 million for him I'd say take it and re-invest, they won't of course because nobody is particularly interested in a player who never seems to deliver.

Stop. All you ever post is, 'he's nothing special, he can't do this, can't do that, he's nothing compared to this guy....look mate, if that's how far your analysis goes, then don't bother talking to me. I don't want to hear it because you're repeating the same message without any thought or analysis behind it.

I see Walcott's faults all day and I see his shortcomings. The difference between me and you is, my analysis doesn't stop there. I can tell that he's stronger at finishing on the right side, which is his strongest foot, his approach to beating players and the types of runs he makes. He's strong in some areas, weak in others and it's why he shouldn't be playing as a right winger. Maybe it's arm chair management, but I don't give a shit. I like talking with people about the tactical side of the game and watching how different players react to certain things and it's the same for all of the Arsenal players I watch. I don't know everything about football but I like to hear what managers and ex players have to say about the tactical side of football. Now, you've said your piece on Walcott and I don't care to hear what else you have to say because it doesn't interest me. If this is how far your analysis goes, then move on. We've got nothing to discuss here.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Damn fine post.

[Marc Overmars]

I think definitive proof of Walcott's ability will be revealed on Friday when FIFA 12 comes out. :coffee:

[Letters]

You say Henry had to relearn how to play up front and yet he played a handful of matches before scoring and ended up with what was it 26 goals in his first season?

So what?



One for GP there.

[GP]

:lol:

[Özim]

Stop. All you ever post is, 'he's nothing special, he can't do this, can't do that, he's nothing compared to this guy....look mate, if that's how far your analysis goes, then don't bother talking to me. I don't want to hear it because you're repeating the same message without any thought or analysis behind it.

I see Walcott's faults all day and I see his shortcomings. The difference between me and you is, my analysis doesn't stop there. I can tell that he's stronger at finishing on the right side, which is his strongest foot, his approach to beating players and the types of runs he makes. He's strong in some areas, weak in others and it's why he shouldn't be playing as a right winger. Maybe it's arm chair management, but I don't give a shit. I like talking with people about the tactical side of the game and watching how different players react to certain things and it's the same for all of the Arsenal players I watch. I don't know everything about football but I like to hear what managers and ex players have to say about the tactical side of football. Now, you've said your piece on Walcott and I don't care to hear what else you have to say because it doesn't interest me. If this is how far your analysis goes, then move on. We've got nothing to discuss here.
You're right actually there's no point discussing it anymore because you're analysis is pretty much nonsense and based hype and hypothetical scenarios rather than reality.

He's had plenty of chances to prove his worth and you guessed it he's failed.

[Power n Glory]

You're right actually there's no point discussing it anymore because you're analysis is pretty much nonsense and based hype and hypothetical scenarios rather than reality.

He's had plenty of chances to prove his worth and you guessed it he's failed.

Like last season when he scored 13 goals and 8 assists? Despite the fact that he's behind RVP as the guy with the most goals for us? You're like a child. You ignore facts and when I'm talking about technique and the technical side of things, it's like it goes over your head or you just out right refuse to get into it.

I've got no respect for that sort of thing. It's ignorant.

[Özim]

Like last season when he scored 13 goals and 8 assists? Despite the fact that he's behind RVP as the guy with the most goals for us? You're like a child. You ignore facts and when I'm talking about technique and the technical side of things, it's like it goes over your head or you just out right refuse to get into it.

I've got no respect for that sort of thing. It's ignorant.
You talk about technique and Walcott, please the guy barely has any technique, this is the reason he can't beat his man, often misses simple chances and has barely progressed in the last 5 years.

People make excuses for this guy because he's English, the facts are he was overhyped and hasn't delivered what was expected of him. In 5+ years he's just not developed into the player people expected and they can't accept that, he's not even managed to make himself a regular for us in that time despite a hatful of chances.

You can quote all the stats you want but look at his performances on the pitch, on the whole those have been very lacking and full of basic errors top footballers just don't make.

He has pace and that's pretty much it, sure that does work against tired defences, but 9 times out of 10 it's ineffective when he starts a game.

There's better players out there and I think we've spent enough time on this guy now, we should find a player with pace and technique who is ready to deliver now, not a player who has yet to prove his worth after years of trying.

Most of the others who have been around as long as him have been shipped out now, so yeah he's had his chance too, English or not.

[Power n Glory]

Rinse and repeat. You keep missing basic points. If a guy can't dribble, but has pace and makes intelligent runs in the box and manages to score 13 goals from the wing even though he's inconsistent on the wing, what's the best position for him on the field?

[Power n Glory]

In fact, let's take Theo out of the equation because his name must drive you mental.

Let's talk about Bendtner. Good in the air, not a bad finisher, strong but inconsistent with his first touch, had no pace and isn't the most skilful player in the world. He's a right footer and can't shoot with his left. Do you stick that sort of player out on the right wing in a 4-3-3 formation?

Arshavin...30 years old, a great playmaker with one touch passing ability, great technically, lots of pace but poor stamina, seems comfortable on either foot, dangerous around the box. Considering his age and lack of defensive awareness, wouldn't it be better to play him behind the striker and give him a free role similar to how Bergkamp played for us? His passing and shooting ability outweighs his dribbling skills and defensive awareness.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Most managers are able to make do with players with certain limitations and get the beat out of them. We play far too many players out of position and it's costing us. We could get more out of a lot of our players but we play this rigid system. All I'm doing is weighing up the pros and cons of certain players.

[IBK]

In fact, let's take Theo out of the equation because his name must drive you mental.

Let's talk about Bendtner. Good in the air, not a bad finisher, strong but inconsistent with his first touch, had no pace and isn't the most skilful player in the world. He's a right footer and can't shoot with his left. Do you stick that sort of player out on the right wing in a 4-3-3 formation?

Arshavin...30 years old, a great playmaker with one touch passing ability, great technically, lots of pace but poor stamina, seems comfortable on either foot, dangerous around the box. Considering his age and lack of defensive awareness, wouldn't it be better to play him behind the striker and give him a free role similar to how Bergkamp played for us? His passing and shooting ability outweighs his dribbling skills and defensive awareness.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Most managers are able to make do with players with certain limitations and get the beat out of them. We play far too many players out of position and it's costing us. We could get more out of a lot of our players but we play this rigid system. All I'm doing is weighing up the pros and cons of certain players.

:gp: