Should Wenger be sacked now?

[Joker]

I know it's not going to happen, but if it were up to you would you get rid of Wenger now, in mid season? I would tbh, the guy's finished as a manager, devoid of ideas and completely deluded thinking his way's actually working.

[Özim]

At any normal club yes.

At a club where money counts for everything and football is just a by-product, absolutely not.

[Niall_Quinn]

Very obviously NO. What would it achieve? NOTHING!

The board has to go, quite fucking obviously. Eventually the majority of fans will wake up to this glaring fucking reality and then something can be organised to root out those toff cunts and the yank.

[Master Splinter]

At a club where money counts for everything and football is just a by-product, absolutely not.

You mean every football club in the world?

[gunnerrrrr]

I now it's not going to happen, but if it were up to you would you get rid of Wenger now, in mid season? I would tbh, the guy's finished as a manager, devoid of ideas and completely deluded thinking his way's actually working.
NO


he should have been sacked years ago....

the stupidity of Wenger -
Buy youngsters for the future...sell the best ones
Does not like last minute transfer deals...buys 5 players on the 31st of August
Stresses the importance of a good start to the season...loses 4 games before November
Works on zonal defense all summer....changes back to man marking after a few games
Used to buy quality like Henry, Viera, Petit, Cesc, Overmars, Lunjberg, Sol, RVP.......now buys Theo

[Özim]

You mean every football club in the world?
No, most other clubs are interested in the playing side and winning as well.

[Özim]

Very obviously NO. What would it achieve? NOTHING!

The board has to go, quite fucking obviously. Eventually the majority of fans will wake up to this glaring fucking reality and then something can be organised to root out those toff cunts and the yank.
They both have to go to be honest, this is Wenger's fault too, it's his ideas and policies behind the football side.

[Joker]

You mean every football club in the world?

No, at other clubs the football does matter. This is why clubs are willing to spend money even if there is a risk that the players that are signed turn out to be disappointments. This is why other clubs freeze ticket prices even if the financially rational thing to do would be to increase prices to maximise profits. At the moment we are treated as a pure private enterprise, which can't be said for many other clubs in England. It's a disgrace.

[Marc Overmars]

Of course he should go and it's not just because of this game.

[Master Splinter]

No, most other clubs are interested in the playing side and winning as well.

Making money is the first rule of every business. And that is what every football club is.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yup. And I'd install John Barnes.

Seriously though, I'd have a look to see who was available, which wouldn't take long. Unless I was intent on transferring another manager in I wouldn't pull the trigger on it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Niall the Board have done a shocking job and should go, but what's easier to uproot.....for the time the Manager.........yes he's been given meagre resources by a fiscally conservative board unprepared to take any risk, but it it'sh the lack of organisation in the team responsible for the results and that is due to the Manager and Manager alone. The Board is a seperate issue, and yes i'd love to see Hill Wood kicked out onto his fat arse, but more importantly it's Wenger that has to go.

[Syn]

Of course he should go and it's not just because of this game.

Yes.

Joker - I know you like to repeat the exact same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, but you can see everyone's opinions on the last thread you started on this topic: http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=629 ...I'll be shocked if anyone has anything interesting or new to say.

[Joker]

Making money is the first rule of every business. And that is what every football club is.

Well let's just sit on our hands and praise our manager for making the shareholders a lot of money, because as a business we're doing well aren't we? Other clubs that are financially doing well have sacked their managers because of poor results, so it's obvious that most football clubs do care about the events on the pitch.

[Marc Overmars]

To be honest a lot of managers at top clubs would have been sacked for a start like this alone.

A lucky win over Swansea and a win over the one club in a worse state of mind than us. It's been a shocking start beyond our worst nightmares and there doesn't seem to be any sign of getting out of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Niall the Board have done a shocking job and should go, but what's easier to uproot.....for the time the Manager.........yes he's been given meagre resources by a fiscally conservative board unprepared to take any risk, but it it'sh the lack of organisation in the team responsible for the results and that is due to the Manager and Manager alone. The Board is a seperate issue, and yes i'd love to see Hill Wood kicked out onto his fat arse, but more importantly it's Wenger that has to go.

My fear is getting rid of Wenger will buy this board time. I don't want they to have that. I want them to be hounded at their fucking homes, followed everywhere by baying crowds telling them to fuck off. Greedy bastards have gutted out club and they've got the nerve to preach to the fans about patience. Patience for what? The final penny to be extracted and an empty room where once they plotted their property deals and discussed how much they could get away with in terms of milking the fans? They need to pay the price. Wenger can go AFTER this bunch of vampires.

[gunnerrrrr]

http://www.epltalk.com/media/2011/04/peter-hill-wood.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe they can replace him with a man who will take what he has at his disposal and create a side that won't pass the ball to death or collectively poo themselves anytime they are asked to defend.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe they can replace him with a man who will take what he has at his disposal and create a side that won't pass the ball to death or collectively poo themselves anytime they are asked to defend.

You mean do something that will benefit the club and the fans instead of themselves? That seems very unlikely.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I know it's not going to happen, but if it were up to you would you get rid of Wenger now, in mid season? I would tbh, the guy's finished as a manager, devoid of ideas and completely deluded thinking his way's actually working.

what diffrence would it really make now tbh, besides he made this mess let him fix it tbh. its not how we start is how we finish imo

[notwist]

They won't get rid of Wenger because the penny pinching Old Etonian fucks who run the club love him for 14 years of CL football on a shoestring. TBF Wenger has over-achieved fr yrs and now we're probably where we deserved to be all along. An unambitious middle of the table team. But if they don't watch out this will turn ugly and it will be a relegation scarp, if it isn't already. Should Wenger go? No, he should have gone a year ago.

[Power n Glory]

The Board and Wenger are separate issues.

[Marc Overmars]

what diffrence would it really make now tbh, besides he made this mess let him fix it tbh. its not how we start is how we finish imo
But we are finished.

We started at Newcastle in the 4-4.

We finished at United with the 8-2.

Now we're down to the dregs.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Board and Wenger are separate issues.

Not sure why anyone would say or even think that. Wenger is the guy executing the board's plan, bring youngsters in, develop them and make profits by selling. This has affected everything.

[Power n Glory]

He's incapable of sorting this out.

[Fats]

He's incapable of sorting this out.

Yup spot on

What pisses me off is the blaming of the board. They are in no way accountable for poor coaching. Oh yes they are they employ the coaches FFS!!!!!!

Everything at the club has to change

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

it's a separate issue because it's the defensive frailty and the tactical naivety that's too blame, not the youth policy

[Niall_Quinn]

it's a separate issue because it's the defensive frailty and the tactical naivety that's too blame, not the youth policy

OR the defensive frailty and tactical naivety are simply secondary to what the board and Wenger really view as important, running the business side of the club. WHY won't they bring in anyone to help? Probably because anyone already here is part of the program whereas people like Bergkamp, Keown, Bould would place achievement on the pitch above all else. from a football perspective we certainly need people like this to come in and help. From the board's and Wenger's perspective, maybe they don't need that sort of interference. As for the tactical naivety, with players like Walcott on the pitch how do you know the manager's tactics are even being applied? You watch these players being so stupid sometimes it takes the breath away. i think Wenger should go but I think he should take the garbage that has piled up with, that includes the board and 75% of the players. With Wenger gone we still have this board, still have their dogshit agenda, still have a team filled with crap. So then what/ Expect somebody like Moyes to turn us into champions by will alone? That's a bit unrealistic. He's cash starved at Everton, what does he win? Why would any manager be different?

[Power n Glory]

Not sure why anyone would say or even think that. Wenger is the guy executing the board's plan, bring youngsters in, develop them and make profits by selling. This has affected everything.

The board have nothing to do with our coaching methods or preparation. They don't tell him which players to sign and he's the fool that saw more value in a player like Kosienly over someone like Mertsesaker. We could have signed Merts ages ago but we signed two totally inept CB's instead and Merts was a panic buy because Verms was out injured. Those are his decisions.

He decides to spend £15m on Oxo but won't play him. He decided to continue playing with one man up a striker when we're a goal down. We have Park on the bench and he doesn't come on. Plenty of free transfer players we've passed up on but Wenger goes for Chamakh of all people. Why is Gibbs starting over Santos?

These are his decisions. If we have a strict budget, cool, but nobody told him to shop in Cash Converters and Primark. He's gone for quantity over quality.

[Power n Glory]

OR the defensive frailty and tactical naivety are simply secondary to what the board and Wenger really view as important, running the business side of the club. WHY won't they bring in anyone to help? Probably because anyone already here is part of the program whereas people like Bergkamp, Keown, Bould would place achievement on the pitch above all else. from a football perspective we certainly need people like this to come in and help. From the board's and Wenger's perspective, maybe they don't need that sort of interference. As for the tactical naivety, with players like Walcott on the pitch how do you know the manager's tactics are even being applied? You watch these players being so stupid sometimes it takes the breath away. i think Wenger should go but I think he should take the garbage that has piled up with, that includes the board and 75% of the players. With Wenger gone we still have this board, still have their dogshit agenda, still have a team filled with crap. So then what/ Expect somebody like Moyes to turn us into champions by will alone? That's a bit unrealistic. He's cash starved at Everton, what does he win? Why would any manager be different?

Did you see Wenger's reaction to being asked about a defensive coach? He took it as an insult. How are you going to blame the board for that? Wenger has ultimate control over his coaching staff. He didn't have to keep Pat Rice on and he had know problem brining in one of his former players as a scout. Is it Grimandi or Remi Garde?

After a match day loss where we're hampered by the same sort of mistakes that doesn't plague teams like Stoke or Tottenham who have less money than us, I don't see how the Board are always the first ones to get the blame. Newcastle have had problems behind the scenes but hasn't stopped Pardrew organising his team so they're in a good position from the first few weeks of the league. We still haven't recovered from that 4-4 draw and Carling Cup final. That's down to man management.

[Power n Glory]

Final point...without Wenger, the Board wouldn't be able to build on the cheap because we started this project because we had Arsene Wenger as the manager, it's not the other way round.

If Wenger goes, they'll have tweak their plans.

[Niall_Quinn]

Final point...without Wenger, the Board wouldn't be able to build on the cheap because we started this project because we had Arsene Wenger as the manager, it's not the other way round.

If Wenger goes, they'll have tweak their plans.

This is like saying Hitler could be hampered by assassinating his generals. True enough, but why not just kill Hitler?

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not saying the board is directly responsible for Wenger's decision making, but I do say they are indirectly and ultimately responsible (or at least they share in the responsibility) for the reasons given in my last response. When football is not the primary objective at a football club then that is going to filter through to every nook and corner.

[Power n Glory]

No, because Wenger is the man with the vision and the Board have backed him with his plans. Why didn't we move for a bigger stadium before under Graham? Why haven't we always been a team that has a strong youth set up? How comes we built the new training ground when Wenger arrives and not before?

Wenger is the talent and the Board have backed him because they thought we could achieve great things under Wenger. If Wenger had never joined us and we ended up with someone like Redknapp, Keegan or whoever, we wouldn't be here and the club would have taken a totally different direction. Credit to Wenger for getting us this far but there is no gas left in the tank and the Board don't seem to realise that their golden goose is out of eggs.

[Cripps_orig]

Yes

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But we are finished.

We started at Newcastle in the 4-4.

We finished at United with the 8-2.

Now we're down to the dregs.

I meant how we finshish in may who knows how we will. its easy to say we will be relegated or be in a battle on form(which is obviously rubbish) We are where liverpool are a few seasons ago imo. And rvp is like Gerrard in the season carrying the team on his own, no wonder he won't sign a deal fair play to the lad.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, because Wenger is the man with the vision and the Board have backed him with his plans. Why didn't we move for a bigger stadium before under Graham? Why haven't we always been a team that has a strong youth set up? How comes we built the new training ground when Wenger arrives and not before?

Okay, I'll give that a go.

1. Why didn't we move for a bigger stadium before under Graham?
A. Wenger took us on a level and the board could then see the merits of getting more seats installed so more fans could be milked.

2. Why haven't we always been a team that has a strong youth set up?
A. Wenger's ability to spot talent opened up a lucrative opportunity to get players cheap and flog them at huge profits which could then be banked by the board and in turn used to drive up the value of their shareholdings which they then flogged, again at a massive profit (100% in some cases)

3. How comes we built the new training ground when Wenger arrives and not before?
A See answer #2, the training ground goes in the cost of sales column.

[Power n Glory]

Okay, I'll give that a go.

1. Why didn't we move for a bigger stadium before under Graham?
A. Wenger took us on a level and the board could then see the merits of getting more seats installed so more fans could be milked.

2. Why haven't we always been a team that has a strong youth set up?
A. Wenger's ability to spot talent opened up a lucrative opportunity to get players cheap and flog them at huge profits which could then be banked by the board and in turn used to drive up the value of their shareholdings which they then flogged, again at a massive profit (100% in some cases)

3. How comes we built the new training ground when Wenger arrives and not before?
A See answer #2, the training ground goes in the cost of sales column.

Which Board wouldn't do this if they had Arsene Wenger as a manager? Wouldn't they be accused of being shortsighted if they passed up the opportunity to sign him but Spurs signed him instead and got the big stadium, profits and medals? That would have gone down well. They listened to his ideas and ran with it. Anyone with sense would do that. But if they had someone else, the strategy would be very different.

They have to run a club that makes money, what else do you expect?

[Niall_Quinn]

Which Board wouldn't do this if they had Arsene Wenger as a manager? Wouldn't they be accused of being shortsighted if they passed up the opportunity to sign him but Spurs signed him instead and got the big stadium, profits and medals? That would have gone down well. They listened to his ideas and ran with it. Anyone with sense would do that. But if they had someone else, the strategy would be very different.

They have to run a club that makes money, what else do you expect?

I expect them to make money AND win trophies. Nothing less is good enough considering how much they are personally profiting.

[Power n Glory]

I expect them to make money AND win trophies. Nothing less is good enough considering how much they are personally profiting.

And the same should be said for Wenger. We can't give him millions to splash out on player but he has to make smarter decisions. We've spent more on our defence than Stoke but our defensive record is shocking when compared. How comes relegation candidates can pull off smash and grabs against us but we can't do the same? It's the manager but I understand why the board won't be so quick to sack him. This is a 20 plus year plan and we look close to completing it. We're on a wobble now but they probably feel it's only right to back Wenger considering the number of years he's given us and without him, none of this would be possible.

[Niall_Quinn]

And the same should be said for Wenger. We can't give him millions to splash out on player but he has to make smarter decisions. We've spent more on our defence than Stoke but our defensive record is shocking when compared. How comes relegation candidates can pull off smash and grabs against us but we can't do the same? It's the manager but I understand why the board won't be so quick to sack him. This is a 20 plus year plan and we look close to completing it. We're on a wobble now but they probably feel it's only right to back Wenger considering the number of years he's given us and without him, none of this would be possible.

Yes, the same should apply to Wenger for sure. As for the 20 year plan, it would be nice if the fans actually knew what that plan is. But I doubt we can be told as the end result would be the lynching of the board. Maybe the original intention was for the good of the club, but there's little doubt that agenda has been subverted and the end result has been great gain for the shareholders and the demise of our team on the pitch. These are things that have happened, not speculation. No fan would have ever signed up for this. I'm not sure if Wenger even signed up for this although I give him no credit for going along with it. Neither to I think (as a fan) he's done nearly enough to earn his money over the past half decade, although I'm certain the board would strongly disagree and point to their bank balances as evidence.