How many defeats??

[Flavs]

How many defeats do you think it will take before something dramatic happens at the club? Either a change in playing style or a change in staff, even dare i say a change in manager?

We have now won one of our last 11 away games, have already lost 4 times this season and short of a plague hitting the top teams playing squads are not playing champs league football next year. As it stands i would fully expect RvP to walk in the summer as well.

Bad times that i cant see getting better.

[Marc Overmars]

When this car wreck of a season is over, then I think we will see some big changes.

[Dennis]

Well we've had a change of owner

Certainly after "our great bit of business" on deadline day we've got a change of playing staff

We changed to zonal marking



What hasnt changed is our ability to generate profits

oh, and our manager

[Flavs]

What hasnt changed is our ability to generate profits

oh, and our manager

or our mental fragility and complete lack of a sense of urgency

[Boss]

We'll see 20+ losses this season so guess we'll find out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We have had problems for some time that demanded a change. But until now it has been possible to identify the priority areas and it seemed relatively straightforward what needed to be done. Unfortunately, even though it seemed clear what the team had to do, we never did it.

This neglect has persisted for way to long, and I feel we have reached the point where it is difficult to even know where to begin to sort out this mess and I'm fairly sure Wenger is just as incapable of knowing where to begin as anyone else.

We are going to be in footbal purgatory for quite a while.

[Flavs]

We have had problems for some time that demanded a change. But until now it has been possible to identify the priority areas and it seemed relatively straightforward what needed to be done. Unfortunately, even though it seemed clear what the team had to do, we never did it.

This neglect has persisted for way to long, and I feel we have reached the point where it is difficult to even know where to begin to sort out this mess and I'm fairly sure Wenger is just as incapable of knowing where to begin as anyone else.

We are going to be in footbal purgatory for quite a while.

I have no problem with the clubs ownership or infrastructure, the playing squad or the way we conduct ourselves. The problems in my opinion are the manager, some of the staff and our application on the pitch, we are tactically and mentally abysmal, carry far too many poor performances and somehow manage to show no leadership despite being full of captains.

We are also a bit whiny.

[Flavs]

Just on top of this, looking at our team sheet yesterday, even with all the injuries you have to say we are still very strong player wise. we have a huge fucking squad and a good balance between youth and experience, plenty of GHEL power, pace and trickery so it must be the application and tactics cos we should be taking names...

----------------------shduzzzzcbbnsz------------

Sagna----------Meatpacker----Vermaelen------Gibbs/2 saints


-------------------------Song----------------------

------------------RamShere---Arteta---------------

Gervinho---------------------------------ArshCott----

----------------------RvP---------------------

FFS!

[IBK]

I think we are going to see a fair few defeats this season - and will be in mid table at best come May.

I think what we are now seeing is how much Fabregas carried this team - even though he had two so-so last seasons by his standards.

While he had Fabregas (and to a lesser extent) Nasri - the manager seemed to have a plan for this team. And playing wise there was progress. It was the mental side that kept letting the team down.

But although I thought we were better than I expected yesterday in the light of a fairly ordinary Spurs performance, I can no longer make out what the plan is, playing wise. I wonder whether there is a cohesive vision for this team. Because it looks like a bit of a hotchpotch of players to me. And too many players look as frankly clueless as our manager is starting to look.

We knew that the Invincibles were all about power and counter-attacking speed and accuracy; the Fabregas side was about possession, patient build up, passing triangles and guile from the midfield. With this lot there doesn't really seem to be any method to what we are doing.

Much as I hate to say it, the once visionary Arsene Wenger seems to have run out of ideas, and has lost what it takes to manage/coach a successful team. I think he thinks he is better than what he has become, and I think he thinks that his players are better than they are.

I'd agree that we are seeing the results of a rot that set in a long time ago. There is something very wrong with this fragile team, and it is a lot more than the reintroduction of Wilshere and Vermaelen is going to address. I find it extraordinary; amazing that the manager was caught with his pants down in this Summer transfer window, and that there seems to have been proper planning at all for this season.

Who would have thought that the wheels would come off so comprehensively in just over 6 months? AFC is no longer a special team, and now we have fallen from grace, it could be years before things turn around for us.

And I don't expect our owner to get rid of Wenger any time soon. No matter how many defeats we suffer.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I find it odd Flavs, that you have a problem with Wenger, but not the ownership. Depending upon how they interact with Wenger, they either indulge his 'vision' or he is indulging their desire to run things on a relative shoestring. They also seem to tolerate a situation where there is no obvious challenge to Wengers methods or consequence of a lack of output.

[Flavs]

I find it odd Flavs, that you have a problem with Wenger, but not the ownership. Depending upon how they interact with Wenger, they either indulge his 'vision' or he is indulging their desire to run things on a relative shoestring. They also seem to tolerate a situation where there is no obvious challenge to Wengers methods or consequence of a lack of output.

I guess because of the information/decisions level that sits between Usmanov/Krankee and the manager. I just think they are happy to sit and take a dividend while legitimising their monies i would look more to the board for where the of field problem lies, its the Gazidis and PHW types that are holding us back IMO. If you look at Stan's comments last week, and they were probably misquoted but he doesn't seem to have a clue about "Soccer" and that's fine if he has a guy in charge who knows what he is doing but Gazidis? The fact i don't know who Usmanov's representative is sums him up really.

Of course this is al conjecture and hyperbole as none of us, not one, has the foggiest idea how the club is run in the back office, which is a whole other issue.

[Marc Overmars]

We knew that the Invincibles were all about power and counter-attacking speed and accuracy; the Fabregas side was about possession, patient build up, passing triangles and guile from the midfield. With this lot there doesn't really seem to be any method to what we are doing.



this.

We have no method or structure because we bought a shit load of players who had no choice but to go straight in. If we had done business early in the window we could have tried and tested some stuff in pre-season to get the best out of what we have now. Add to that I'm sure many of the existing players were miffed at the high profile departures.

We obviously can't play the way we used to, simply because the ball retention is not of the same standard. Yet we persist with this style of play. :shrug:

Fergie always manages to re-invent United. Why can't Arsene do it with us?

[Flavs]

I watched the Bolton game before our yesterday and they looked the same as us, the players weren't trying, shit tactics, mentally poor and cant defend. So at least they can keep us company in the championship next season.

The worst thing is that teams will be watching our games, seeing where we are weak and then exploiting it, really not looking forward to the Stoke game and wonder if a loss there will be enough for Wenger to go.

Anyway, good players, fantastic ground, rich, solid business wise, so its not all bad.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

this.

We have no method or structure because we bought a shit load of players who had no choice but to go straight in. If we had done business early in the window we could have tried and tested some stuff in pre-season to get the best out of what we have now. Add to that I'm sure many of the existing players were miffed at the high profile departures.

We obviously can't play the way we used to, simply because the ball retention is not of the same standard. Yet we persist with this style of play. :shrug:

Fergie always manages to re-invent United. Why can't Arsene do it with us?

Because Fergie is a winner and knows how to win. Unlike Wenger he is mentally Strong and shows no one is bigger then him. He don't wrap his kids in cotton wool he treats them like men and lets them get on with it.

I mean why did Oxo not play yesterday he has the talent and was maybe what we missed fergir would have put him in. Also having a Chairman who cares about the football side of things and leaves the finace side to the owners helps UTD alot. They are ab ambitious club even if its to win the CL where as we'd take finishing 20th if it meant making a huge profit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I watched the Bolton game before our yesterday and they looked the same as us, the players weren't trying, shit tactics, mentally poor and cant defend. So at least they can keep us company in the championship next season.

The worst thing is that teams will be watching our games, seeing where we are weak and then exploiting it, really not looking forward to the Stoke game and wonder if a loss there will be enough for Wenger to go.

Anyway, good players, fantastic ground, rich, solid business wise, so its not all bad.

Yeah but bolton had an excuse tbh, they were playing a Chelsea side who were going to make a statement to the 2 manchester clubs. We played in a derby where none on our players seemed to care or where up for it.

Where was the fight from this team like we used to see, where was the fight in the media we normally see from a cesc or a TH 14 or a PV4 etc ina derby game. Were like a team who knows its beatern before we go in the pitch.; and when we win even against lower teams we celebrate like its an achievement.

Where is the Pride that we once had, when the feck is some going to stand up and say "DAMIT WE'RE FUCKING ARSENAL LETS DO THIS"

[Fats]

Your right Flavs

We have the players

We have the manager

So what the heck is wrong?

Ill tell you, the manager cant coach or manage. It really is that simple. I hear all the shit that Wenger is a genius!!!!!!!!!!!! Really???? So why is the team playing so shit. The team playing poorly has absolutely nothing to do with the board.

[server too busy!]

Geez check everyone out. Was yesterday really that bad? How easy is it to beat Tottenham at home these days...not at all, yet everyone seems to think we've somehow thrown away another blackburn style 3 pointer.

We played well and were unlucky with both goals. The midfield was a lot better with winning the ball and keeping it, Coquelin looks awesome! I really think Ramsey needs to be dropped as I think a lot of the issues are coming because of him. He lacks creativity and gives the ball away too often. When Wilshire and Vermaelen are back I think we'll see a huge difference.

[Özim]

Wilshire and Vermaelen are back I think we'll see a huge difference.
You're right, only 6 months to wait :)

[LDG]

I didn't think we were that bad, no.

We lacked someone with some balls though. That was such a tame derby, and all it needed was a battler to take it to them. Something we didn't have.

Scott Parker was man of the match by a mile...quite why Neville Neville's son sought to give it to walker is beyond me.

Arsene should be made to watch videos of his own team from 1997 til 2004 and perhaps it might spark him into life....the passionless part is what is really fucking me of right now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I didn't think we were that bad, no.

We lacked someone with some balls though. That was such a tame derby, and all it needed was a battler to take it to them. Something we didn't have.

Scott Parker was man of the match by a mile...quite why Neville Neville's son sought to give it to walker is beyond me.

Arsene should be made to watch videos of his own team from 1997 til 2004 and perhaps it might spark him into life....the passionless part is what is really fucking me of right now.

The team needs confidence before it will get its passion back. If the team don't beileve in its manager or fello players why would they have passion.

We played in a derby yesterday and only 1 player Coq looked like he wanted to be there or cared, the rest treated it like a training match.

[Özim]

The team needs confidence before it will get its passion back. If the team don't beileve in its manager or fello players why would they have passion.

We played in a derby yesterday and only 1 player Coq looked like he wanted to be there or cared, the rest treated it like a training match.
I'm not sure, it's been a long time since I've seen an Arsenal team with real hunger on the pitch...quite often they just seem to be going through the motions.

There was no competitive edge to us, if you watched the Merseyside derby you'll understand what I mean.

[Flavs]

Arsene should be made to watch videos of his own team from 1997 til 2004 and perhaps it might spark him into life....the passionless part is what is really fucking me of right now.

I would give my right testicle for a Petit type player about now

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm not sure, it's been a long time since I've seen an Arsenal team with real hunger on the pitch...quite often they just seem to be going through the motions.

There was no competitive edge to us, if you watched the Merseyside derby you'll understand what I mean.

This is what i mean we went there knowing that spurs would beat us and treated it as the lower teams have treated us over the years. There is no hunger no desire in this team, because they don't believe in themselves each other.

Team spirit at the club is the worst ever in 15 years and has been like this for 4 seasons now. Our big plyers don't have faith plain and simple. evey picture you see these days is of RVP or Theo looking dissapointed. we will loose RVP and another problem will arise.

we raise our game agaisnt the chavs though we do against the bigger teams

[server too busy!]

Personally I'd like to see a midfield of Coqelin, Arteta and Song till Wilshere comes back. We need to play 2 DCMs, especially the way Song runs forward and with our FBs always running up to attack.

[LDG]

Personally I'd like to see a midfield of Coqelin, Arteta and Song till Wilshere comes back. We need to play 2 DCMs, especially the way Song runs forward and with our FBs always running up to attack.

Fwiw, we need to go back to basics and do the basic things right first and foremost, so you put the most experienced and most work hard team we have on the park.

I'd go:

Rosicky Arteta Song Benayoun Santos

Theo can do one, as can Arshavin.

Wenger should be fucking his principles of pretty football up the arsehole and concentrating on not losing first and foremost.

[Flavs]

Wenger should be fucking his principles of pretty football up the arsehole

Well worded!