Good Bye RVP!

[IBK]

He is though. Definitely.

[Cripps_orig]

Dont see any reason why he could be.

[IBK]

Dont see any reason why he could be.

Oh there's every reason to think that he could be. He's a cunt.

[Cripps_orig]

Not imo. Didnt do anything none of us would do in the same situation.

If you want to speak about cunts then Cescs your man

[IBK]

Not imo. Didnt do anything none of us would do in the same situation.

If you want to speak about cunts then Cescs your man

Stop spoiling my fun by being logical. He's a cunt. And so are you! ; )

(Damn right re Cesc though - massive cunt in the end. RVP busy showing what a proper captain does....)

[Cripps_orig]

RVPs a cunt as well tbh

[IBK]

RVPs a cunt as well tbh

Porquoi?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not imo. Didnt do anything none of us would do in the same situation.

If you want to speak about cunts then Cescs your man

Why all he wanted to do was go home, nout wrong with that.

Nasri is just a cunt.

[Cripps_orig]

Porquoi?Too many injuries, only coming good now when it was needed years ago, not signing a contract, leaving next summer.

Take your pick

[Cripps_orig]

Why

Pining for a move for years, getting his cunt mates to talk about him moving to Cuntalona, refusing to play for us this season/pre season faking an injury, being shit for ages for us, being an alwful captain.

Take your pick

[IBK]

Why all he wanted to do was go home, nout wrong with that.

Nasri is just a cunt.

TBF - he had a pretty shameful final season for us. Lacklustre performances from a player who was clearly pining for Barcelona; did nothing to pervent his Barca bumchums from talking it all up and finally agitated for a move massively below his valuation. Pretty shameful stuff for a club captain.

[IBK]

Too many injuries, only coming good now when it was needed years ago, not signing a contract, leaving next summer.

Take your pick

Injuries not his fault. Showing a lot more commitment to the club than his 2 predecessors.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Pining for a move for years, getting his cunt mates to talk about him moving to Cuntalona, refusing to play for us this season/pre season faking an injury, being shit for ages for us, being an alwful captain.

Take your pick

1 he wanted to go home, he never pined to go to every other club who wanted him, ala Ade.
2 had he gone to madrid you'd be sucking him off by now
3 Highly doubt he told the barca twats to be twats and talk about him moving
4 when did he refuse to play for the club, think you'll find that was Nasri the ungreatful cunt.

[Marc Overmars]

Ach is rolling back the years.

[IBK]

1 he wanted to go home, he never pined to go to every other club who wanted him, ala Ade.
2 had he gone to madrid you'd be sucking him off by now
3 Highly doubt he told the barca twats to be twats and talk about him moving
4 when did he refuse to play for the club, think you'll find that was Nasri the ungreatful cunt.

Dunno about Ach, but do you think he'd have been so keen on going 'home' had Barca been mid table in La Liga? I can't get over a player so eager to leave the team he captained that he contributed to his own transfer fee. Fabregas put in almost as many disinterested performances for us over his last 2 seasons as Adebayor did in his - culminating in his pass that put Barca through in the CL ahead of us. He clearly could have told his mates to respect his wishes and not agitate for Barcelona in the press had he wanted to.

Agree with you about him refusiing to play, though...another Ach fantasy.

[Cripps_orig]

1 he wanted to go home, he never pined to go to every other club who wanted him, ala Ade.
2 had he gone to madrid you'd be sucking him off by now
3 Highly doubt he told the barca twats to be twats and talk about him moving
4 when did he refuse to play for the club, think you'll find that was Nasri the ungreatful cunt.

1 - Who gives a fuck if he wanted to go home? Somehow that makes his pining ok? Football is full of players who dont play where they grew up yet you dont see them moaning

2 - he didnt so moot point

3 - Well he didnt tell them to STFU which he could have done at any time

4 - He didnt play in any pre season game or our early season games citing injury yet plays for Barca within 2 days of joining. Doesnt take a genius to work it out.

[Cripps_orig]

Ach is rolling back the years.

In the mood today plus GW is deathly quiet these days. Needs some activity. Im just doing my bit

[Ollie the Optimist]

Too many injuries, only coming good now when it was needed years ago, not signing a contract, leaving next summer.

Take your pick

for a man who has scored over a 100 goals for us, and i believe he is now seventh highest scorer for us, you really cant say he has only just come good but you will

[Cripps_orig]

Yes cos hes been this good for us before :rolleyes:

[BOBN]

4 - He didnt play in any pre season game or our early season games citing injury yet plays for Barca within 2 days of joining. Doesnt take a genius to work it out.
Spot on, he refused to play in pre-season, end of.

Laughable how deluded some people want to be tbh. Its like the husband who refuses to believe hes bring cheated on when the neighbour produces the polaroids

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yes cos hes been this good for us before :rolleyes:

scoring over 100 goals in 6 seasons suggests he has been

[Cripps_orig]

scoring over 100 goals in 6 seasons suggests he has beenHe scored 100 goals by the end of 09/10 season? Didnt realise that.

RVP :bow:

[BOBN]

Well City do need their quoter of boring English midfielders to keep up. I cant believe people have forgotten how fucking great Nasri was for us last season. are u high? He was good for about 8 games in autumn

[hymppi]

if AW won't offer RVP a huge deal, i will kill the french twat until he dies.

[Cripps_orig]

if AW won't offer RVP a huge deal, i will kill the french twat until he dies.

Wenger wont offer it.

Keep your word

[Cripps_orig]

Spot on, he refused to play in pre-season, end of.

Laughable how deluded some people want to be tbh. Its like the husband who refuses to believe hes bring cheated on when the neighbour produces the polaroidsCesc was and by the looks of it still is some fans little darling who can do no wrong.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Spot on, he refused to play in pre-season, end of.

Laughable how deluded some people want to be tbh. Its like the husband who refuses to believe hes bring cheated on when the neighbour produces the polaroids

No he never what rubbish, if wenger rested him thats diffrent.

[Cripps_orig]

Does a player actually have to come out and say "I REFUSED TO PLAY" for you to believe it?

In that case, no player in the world in the history of football has ever refused to play.

Stop being so deluded.

[Xhaka Can’t]

TBF - he had a pretty shameful final season for us. Lacklustre performances from a player who was clearly pining for Barcelona; did nothing to pervent his Barca bumchums from talking it all up and finally agitated for a move massively below his valuation. Pretty shameful stuff for a club captain.

The worst Captain by far in my time supporting Arsenal. That said, he should never have been put in the position of being our Club Captain.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Does a player actually have to come out and say "I REFUSED TO PLAY" for you to believe it?In that case, no player in the world in the history of football has ever refused to play.

Stop being so deluded.

No not at all, However common sesne would tell me he never, maybe the manager refused to play him incase of injury to prevent his move. Its not like Tevez now who is refusing to play.

Did i believe he was injured? No but do i think he refused to play, hard to say think it was more with Wenger wanting him out the lime light.

[Power n Glory]

Dunno about Ach, but do you think he'd have been so keen on going 'home' had Barca been mid table in La Liga? I can't get over a player so eager to leave the team he captained that he contributed to his own transfer fee. Fabregas put in almost as many disinterested performances for us over his last 2 seasons as Adebayor did in his - culminating in his pass that put Barca through in the CL ahead of us. He clearly could have told his mates to respect his wishes and not agitate for Barcelona in the press had he wanted to.

Agree with you about him refusiing to play, though...another Ach fantasy.

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

[BOBN]

Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.
people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

Think he sensed how much cesc unbalanced the team rather then anything else tbh.

[GP]

Painfully overrated player.

Sadly that isn't true. He's a great player.

[BOBN]

No he never what rubbish, if wenger rested him thats diffrent.

Wenger practically admitted it, to anyone willing to engage their brain

[Kano]

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.
agree with all of that. games against villa and his reaction away to stoke should answer any questions.

there was no other way for his transfer to take place apart from it becoming very messy in the end, the barca players alone made it that. he had his part to play and in his eagerness to get into the barca team and build a rep there for years to come, he made mistakes in how he handled it too.

to pinpoint cesc's lack of contribution in the past couple of years only ignores similar performances all round at times; firstly hardly anyone performs every week for their team and when the chips are down, it will affect the spirit of the team. that last part comes down to the management, so i'm not sure there is much of a case to answer for cesc.

[Power n Glory]

people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

Wenger wasn't playing Song as defensive midfielder that year. Denilson played more games than any other player that year, including Almunia. We were leaking goals because Wenger had the wrong balance in the midfield, plus we had a terrible goalkeeper, wingback and two CB's under 6 foot that aren't natural centre backs or know how to command a backline. If he had played Song, Cesc and Nasri/Diaby in the middle, we'd have probably had the right balance in the middle, but even when we had more defensive minded players, we still lost silly games. Start of the season, Wenger wasn't playing Song and nobody on here even rated him. I think we were playing 4-4-2 for that Hull game with Cesc and Denilson in the middle. What sort of craziness is that?

Already this season, without Cesc, we've lost 8-2 and took a beating at Blackburn as well. It goes beyond one player. Wenger had the balance all wrong. We lost many games with Cesc in the squad, but we lost games without him as well, plus picked up a heap of draws because we looked so toothless.

[BOBN]

I think we were playing 4-4-2 for that Hull game with Cesc and Denilson in the middle. What sort of craziness is that?
whats crazy about it? 2 so-called central midfielders playing in central midfield. football is a simple game.

if cesc was a top central midfield player, a leader, it would have worked. a proper CM would have taliored, restricted, his game slightly to help usher in the inexperienced kid, even if temporarily as he found his feet. a bit like what vieira did for him.

instead this plum was too thick to realise he couldnt wander about all over the place playing his typically defensively lazy game.

easily the worst and most selfish captain in arsenal history.

[Power n Glory]

whats crazy about it? 2 so-called central midfielders playing in central midfield. football is a simple game.

if cesc was a top central midfield player, a leader, it would have worked. a proper CM would have taliored, restricted, his game slightly to help usher in the inexperienced kid, even if temporarily as he found his feet. a bit like what vieira did for him.

instead this plum was too thick to realise he couldnt wander about all over the place playing his typically defensively lazy game.

easily the worst and most selfish captain in arsenal history.

I wish it was that simple but it’s not. For starters, Cesc and Denilson are like 5’8”, neither are strong defensive players and up against bigger players, they can’t compete physically. You can’t compare Cesc to Vieria because he’s not built like him and can’t play as a defensive midfielder. Telling Cesc to hold back and protect Denilson wouldn’t work and it’s like telling Lampard to stop making runs into the box and going for goals. It curbs what he’s really good at. Why do you think the England set up with Lampard and Gerrard doesn’t work in a 4-4-2?

Do you think Barca could get away with playing 4-4-2 with Xavi and Iniesta in the middle? Look at our current club. Would you go into our next few games playing a 4-4-2 with Ramsey and Arteta in the middle? Or Ramsey and Rosicky? Do you think we could play like that against Man City and not get complete ass whooping? None of those players have the legs, work rate or physical presence to cope. You’d have to play someone like Song alongside them because he’s more defensive. We didn’t have the right balance back then and I can’t see any other manager trying to play Cesc and Denilson in a 4-4-2. Check out Zonal Marking and look what all the top teams are doing and how they are set up. You won’t find many 4-4-2 set ups where little guys like Denilson and Cesc are playing in the middle. They’re shrimps and pretty weak. Cesc maybe world class but makes no sense to curb what he’s good at to focus on a weak area. What sort of management is that? If we went out and bought Sneijder and Wenger wanted to play him in a 4-4-2 alongside Ramsey, I’d say that’s the wrong balance. That’s not the players fault.

[BOBN]

I wish it was that simple but it’s not. For starters, Cesc and Denilson are like 5’8”, neither are strong defensive players and up against bigger players, they can’t compete physically. You can’t compare Cesc to Vieria because he’s not built like him and can’t play as a defensive midfielder.
you do know cesc was a defensive midfielder for barca youth yes? his hero is guardiola remember.

only season cesc looked competent in there was when he had flamini doing the work for 2 men (how tall was flamini btw? how tall was makalele?)

a central midfielder who cant do his fair share of defensive work or "compete physically" is useless to me, thats part of the reason im saying hes overrated, duh! theres never been a great CM who couldnt and there never will be



Do you think Barca could get away with playing 4-4-2 with Xavi and Iniesta in the middle? Look at our current club. Would you go into our next few games playing a 4-4-2 with Ramsey and Arteta in the middle? Or Ramsey and Rosicky? Do you think we could play like that against Man City and not get complete ass whooping? None of those players have the legs, work rate or physical presence to cope. You’d have to play someone like Song alongside them because he’s more defensive. We didn’t have the right balance back then and I can’t see any other manager trying to play Cesc and Denilson in a 4-4-2. Check out Zonal Marking and look what all the top teams are doing and how they are set up. You won’t find many 4-4-2 set ups where little guys like Denilson and Cesc are playing in the middle. They’re shrimps and pretty weak. Cesc maybe world class but makes no sense to curb what he’s good at to focus on a weak area. What sort of management is that? If we went out and bought Sneijder and Wenger wanted to play him in a 4-4-2 alongside Ramsey, I’d say that’s the wrong balance. That’s not the players fault.
hang on, youre the one complaining about wenger moving him out of his best position and all that rubbish now youre telling me he should be allowed to focus on getting forward?

so let me get this straight, in the hurly-burly premier league you expected our manager to forsake a player who was prepared to graft/add solidarity and allow cesc to clog up valuable space in the engine room of the midfield so they he can spray his shytty little balls about? this is what you expected wenger to continue doing? and people wonder why we never won anything with cesc in the team, lol.

ps. xavi for one is a much harder worker than cesc so yes he could cut it in a midfield 2 with anyone, and hes done so before.

[Power n Glory]

you do know cesc was a defensive midfielder for barca youth yes? his hero is guardiola remember.

only season cesc looked competent in there was when he had flamini doing the work for 2 men (how tall was flamini btw? how tall was makalele?)

a central midfielder who cant do his fair share of defensive work or "compete physically" is useless to me, thats part of the reason im saying hes overrated, duh! theres never been a great CM who couldnt and there never will be


hang on, youre the one complaining about wenger moving him out of his best position and all that rubbish now youre telling me he should be allowed to focus on getting forward?

so let me get this straight, in the hurly-burly premier league you expected our manager to forsake a player who was prepared to graft/add solidarity and allow cesc to clog up valuable space in the engine room of the midfield so they he can spray his shytty little balls about? this is what you expected wenger to continue doing? and people wonder why we never won anything with cesc in the team, lol.

ps. xavi for one is a much harder worker than cesc so yes he could cut it in a midfield 2 with anyone, and hes done so before.

He’s a deep laying playmaker, but he’s not a defensive midfielder. His job isn’t to protect the back and to sit. The role of the defensive midfielder has evolved over the years and the Spanish have always had deep laying central mid players that set up play. As for your Flamini example, his defensive attributes outweigh his attack. He contributes more defending then he does attacking. He’s short, but he has the engine to keep running and but tackles in.

You have very narrow mind when it comes to player positions and duties. You know the difference between a striker like Henry and Bergkamp right? Or a RVP and Hernandez or Berbatov? Same goes for centre back partnerships. The Merts and Kosienly combo works because they have different ways of defending and their styles complement each other. That’s how football works. It’s the same in the middle of the park. Cesc isn’t suited to playing in a 4-4-2 formation. Not with the combos we’ve seen.

Also, in a 4-3-3, with the players we had and how we started to struggle to move the ball around, it would have been better to play him further back with someone like Rosicky, Nasri or Wilshere ahead of him and Song holding behind him. Denilson was weak on offence and defence. You can have a CB that does his fair share of defensive work, but in this day and age, you need one player to focus fully on defending and not cross too far over the half way line when attacking. There is a balance. If we had someone to focus on defence and someone that was comfortable picking out passes and keeping the ball moving then I’d say it’s okay to move Cesc that forward. It’s what they’re doing at Barca because he has Xavi and Iniesta behind him and they can pick out his runs, while Busquets is behind all of them playing a more defensive role.

Besides the middle of the park, we had many things wrong with the squad. It lacked balance on the flanks as well. Check out what other teams are doing and you’ll see the bigger picture.

[IBK]

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

We'll have to agree to disagree there, mate. I didn't say Cesc played crap. Neither did I say that he didn't try. He is one of the world's best MF's and he was always going to offer more than many of our mediocre players. He is also pretty professional. But for me it was blatantly obvious from more or less the get go last season that his heart wasn't in it. He was way below what he was capable of and it didn't take a rocket scientist even at the time - let alone with hindsight - to figure out why. I think that his lack of commitment to the club was part of the reason why we imploded and I think that ultimately he stabbed us in the back.

[BOBN]

Also, in a 4-3-3, with the players we had and how we started to struggle to move the ball around, it would have been better to play him further back with someone like Rosicky, Nasri or Wilshere ahead of him and Song holding behind him.
nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

[Syn]

nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.

[BOBN]

Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.
did he really say that?

he did you know :lol: :gp: this fraud got called out on his headless-chickenness within 6 weeks. just shows how clueless the average fan is really (how many arsenal fans called him the best midfielder in the world while he was here?)

[Power n Glory]

nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

Who said anything about a vertical line?

Look at how Barca play.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/07/athletic-bilbao-2-2-barcelona-bielsa-guardiola-tactics/

In fact, check out that site and watch how a few other teams play and balance out their midfield. Not saying Cesc shouldn't defend, but you're talking about two lightweight players in a 4-4-2 formation. We'd never stand a chance. Every player has to chip in when it comes to defending but when it comes to attack you have to at least have one player that sits back on the half way line and covers just in case a move breaks down. That’s why teams are playing 5 man midfields these days.

We can go on and on about this, but it's just best to check out zonal marking look how other teams operate. Our balance was totally off back then. Right now, our central mid isn't working all that well, but we finally have quick wingers moving the ball forward and creating chances so we're not creating that much from the centre anymore. The way Song is picking out passes to our forwards is what I expect to see from Arteta and Ramsey. Xavi does it for Barca all the time. It's the sort of balance we should have had ages ago.

[Power n Glory]

Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.

I blame his boss. You've seen the way Song goes too far forward in some games and the way Wenger gives Ramsey and co the freedom to move all over the place. Same goes for the Nasri and Arshavin have been managed. Wenger gives his players too much freedom.

[Syn]

I blame his boss. You've seen the way Song goes too far forward in some games and the way Wenger gives Ramsey and co the freedom to move all over the place. Same goes for the Nasri and Arshavin have been managed. Wenger gives his players too much freedom.

Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.

I don't know about arshavin really...I just think it's more to do with him rather than management...just doesn't have the hunger. Irony, IMO.

[IBK]

Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.

I don't know about arshavin really...I just think it's more to do with him rather than management...just doesn't have the hunger. Irony, IMO.

I'd agree with that. What makes me think its a motivation thing with Arshavin is that while almost all our other players seem to have improved with a better balance to the team, there's been no real transformation from him.

Re Song - Arteta sitting deeper allows Song to get forward to far less suicidal effect than last season. In fact IMO Arsteta is very much the unsung Song hero of our current rennaisance.

[BOBN]

Who said anything about a vertical line?

Look at how Barca play.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/07/athletic-bilbao-2-2-barcelona-bielsa-guardiola-tactics/

In fact, check out that site and watch how a few other teams play and balance out their midfield. Not saying Cesc shouldn't defend, but you're talking about two lightweight players in a 4-4-2 formation. We'd never stand a chance. Every player has to chip in when it comes to defending but when it comes to attack you have to at least have one player that sits back on the half way line and covers just in case a move breaks down. That’s why teams are playing 5 man midfields these days.
so who sat back when united flew out the traps earlier this season with anderson and cleverly in the middle? there was no designated player, it was just two midfielders willing and able to do their fair share. if cesc was unable to do that then that tells you all you need to know.

"don't kid yourselves, it's a very simple game football" - Roy Keane

[BOBN]

Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.
yep, ramsey seems so and arteta and wilshere definitely are more rounded players and we will be better for it. we already seem much more solid now players have settled.

if we can add a stellar, specialist number 10 type player such as a gotze, erikksen, ozil type we will be flying (rather than shunting a CM forward who wasnt a natural in that role like we did with cesc simply because he couldnt cut it anywhere else)

we need to buy that player in january to convince RVP to sign. nothing else will do imo.

[Power n Glory]

so who sat back when united flew out the traps earlier this season with anderson and cleverly in the middle? there was no designated player, it was just two midfielders willing and able to do their fair share. if cesc was unable to do that then that tells you all you need to know.

"don't kid yourselves, it's a very simple game football" - Roy Keane

Wing play. They had Nani and Young bombing down the wings creating chances. They focus on attacking down the wings. We don't. Or didn't shall I say. The team had no balance, especially when we're not playing with natural wingers. Eboue and Walcott are typical examples. We had games where Diaby and Eboue were playing on the flanks or Hleb. These guys aren't direct tricky wingers that scare wingbacks into backing off. Man U had that with Ronaldo and they've gone back to that with Nani and Young. Clevery and Anderson aren't the playmakers. You keep talking about things being simple but it's not, otherwise we wouldn't have these problems.

[Power n Glory]

Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.

I don't know about arshavin really...I just think it's more to do with him rather than management...just doesn't have the hunger. Irony, IMO.

Yes, Song is underrated on here. His technique, ball retention skills and passing have been overlooked for a while. I don't have a problem with Song going forwards from time to time and I've always thought Wenger has given him the freedom to do that, but I often see Ramsey and Arteta struggling to get the ball forwards when they receive the ball from a deep position. Ramsey does reckless stuff when back there, like blind passes or passing along the ground across field and I’ve seen Arteta get caught in possession a few times or make wayward passes. Song rarely gets caught out like that and he’s the better of the two at collecting the ball from the defence and moving it forwards. He has the passing range and composure to do that. That’s why I don’t want him too far forwards when we’ve got players further back struggling to get a hold of the game.

The one thing I can’t stand is when we have two sideways passing players struggling get the ball forwards to our most creative players and it results in them having to drop deep and out of position just to get a foothold in the game. Games where we had Diaby and Denilson playing with Cesc ahead could be a complete nightmare. Coupled with the fact that we had wingers that couldn’t attack the flanks and kept drifting all over the place…..it was headache.

We don’t teach positional discipline at Arsenal. Pep is going to have to drill that into Cesc because he wasn’t this mobile when he first arrived from Spain. Too much freedom causes confusion and that’s the problem we’ve had over the years. We’ve had too many players that didn’t have strict refined duties. Too many playmakers in the team trying to a find a role. This is why I like Walcott and Gervinho. Simple players. Walcott isn’t a natural winger, but he hugs the wing and looks to beat his man and exploit space. He’s not floating into the centre trying to play one twos every minute or looking to receive the ball so he can play a killer pass. Same for Gervinho. When he’s on the ball out wide, his first instinct is to take on his man and dribble. None of that simple pass, one two give and go nonsense, Rosicky, Hleb and Nasri kept on doing. We passed ourselves into circles. Now we’re looking more refined. RVP is getting there as well. He’s in and around the box more and making smart runs instead of looking for ball to feet situations.

[Tipsychubbs]

I agree that there is too much freedom and not enough positional discipline in this team, and its been a problem for years.

Flexibility and versatility in position switching is good from time to time, but its overdone in this team and seems to result in the midfield running around like headless chickens at times.

[Fist of Lehmann]

"don't kid yourselves, it's a very simple game football" - Roy KeaneThat may or may not be true.

But how much weight does the tactical philosophising of Roy Keane carry?

Ipswich Town might argue - not much.

[Power n Glory]

We'll have to agree to disagree there, mate. I didn't say Cesc played crap. Neither did I say that he didn't try. He is one of the world's best MF's and he was always going to offer more than many of our mediocre players. He is also pretty professional. But for me it was blatantly obvious from more or less the get go last season that his heart wasn't in it. He was way below what he was capable of and it didn't take a rocket scientist even at the time - let alone with hindsight - to figure out why. I think that his lack of commitment to the club was part of the reason why we imploded and I think that ultimately he stabbed us in the back.

A bit harsh to put that whole season on Cesc’s back. The team imploded because of that Carling Cup final and serious defensive errors that goes from the front to back. He had an injury hit season. Talk of him not being fully committed started the season before that as well. The season where he played on with a broken leg against Barca and scored 19 goals. When you have a stop and start sort of season, it’s always hard to judge whether a player is performing at his best. It happens with all the players but because Cesc was linked with a move away from the club, we tend to think he’s distracted. Wenger always pays attention to the psychological side of football and knows injuries can effect the way a player plays the game. I sure he said Cesc was worried about getting injured again. It was the same for Walcott with his shoulders always popping out. It makes no sense for Cesc not to try his best when we had a chance of ending the trophy draught. He’s been at the club way too long. It’s the same for Walcott, RVP and Song. They still have outstanding contract issues, but nobody questions their commitment because we’re winning and they haven’t been heavily linked with a move away from the club.

[BOBN]

That may or may not be true.

But how much weight does the tactical philosophising of Roy Keane carry?

Ipswich Town might argue - not much.

“Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better.” - Bill Shankly

Happy?

[Fist of Lehmann]

“Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better.” - Bill Shankly

Happy?Very happy.

Also, Roy Keane is a cunt.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal striker Robin van Persie has hinted that he might remain a Gunner, amid speculation concerning where his future may lie.

The 28-year-old has 18 months left on his existing contract and is yet to come to an agreement over an extension to his stay at the Emirates Stadium, with some reports pointing towards interest from Barcelona and Manchester City.

Now the Dutchman has claimed that his family has settled down well in London, with the former Feyenoord man having been at the club since 2004.

"We love the life in London and I enjoy watching my kids grow up here," Van Persie told reporters. "They grow up like the English kids with good manners and values of England.

"The place where we live, just outside the city, is fantastic. We have everything we want.

"The English people are so incredibly polite where I live. People are nice here. That makes life a real pleasure.

"My children have become more English than Dutch. They have taken up the culture and values of England.

"It makes me melt at times when I see how well my children are doing here. When Shaqueel has half-term with school, he does not want to go back to the Netherlands any more."

Van Persie had a stellar 2011. He scored 35 Premier League goals during the course of the calendar year, beating Thierry Henry's Arsenal record but falling one goal short of equalling the Premier League record held by Alan Shearer.

His final goal of 2011 was against Queens Park Rangers on New Year's Eve. As the only goal of the match it ensured the Gunners took the three points and moved into the top four of the Premier League for the first time this season.

The Arsenal captain attributed his outstanding performances during the year to his desire to repay the fans for their support.

"It is the biggest compliment I could wish for," Van Persie added. "Arsenal fans are real lovers of the game.

"They don't miss anything in the stadium and are there for the team and the individual players.

"I have to admit I love banners like 'We don't need Batman, we've got Robin' and stuff like that.

"I also love it when I run on to the pitch and I hear the entire crowd roar. What bigger compliment could I wish for as a player?

"At Arsenal, the fans so want me to do well. And that gives me a kick. That's what I do it for. As a thank you, I want to give them so much in return on the pitch."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/01/01/2825840/robin-van-persie-hints-at-staying-with-arsenal

Not necessarily a good thing

[Coney]

“Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better.” - Bill Shankly


Shanks. :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Set a new personal record for most goals in a season today. :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

What a striker.

Please sign a new deal. :(

[Cripps_orig]

What a striker.

Please sign a new deal. :(If he signs a new contract, i will run round naked at the next game i go to after he signs the contract

[Niall_Quinn]

What a striker.

Please sign a new deal. :(

Would you?


Well you would because you are a sad nobody in a nothing job, but say you were a top striker like RvP, would you want to stay?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If he signs a new contract, i will run round naked at the next game i go to after he signs the contract

RVP. :wave:

[Marc Overmars]

Would you?


Well you would because you are a sad nobody in a nothing job, but say you were a top striker like RvP, would you want to stay?

Hell no.

[Master Splinter]

Koscielny off to Real Madrid too?

He is absolutely brilliant. Better defender than Vermaelen and has also been playing like a captain in trying to set an example. Shame the other players let him down.

Oxo will obviously go to Citeh.

[Joker]

Can see big clubs looking at Wilshere, RVP, Koscielny and Chesney if (when) we don't qualify for the Champions League. Wilshere and Chesney may stay because they've come through our youth system, but I can easily see RVP and Koscielny leaving if Real or City come calling.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Can see big clubs looking at Wilshere, RVP, Koscielny and Chesney if (when) we don't qualify for the Champions League. Wilshere and Chesney may stay because they've come through our youth system, but I can easily see RVP and Koscielny leaving if Real or City come calling.

i doubt any big clubs will look at kos.

[Boss]

Koscielny is quality, there'll be interest but doubt we'll let more than 1-2 of the 'stars' go, same as usual. Not because they don't want to but because of things like team continuity etc.

[Elreactor]

Some time ago I´d have gone mad if RVP left Arsenal.

Now I only hope that, if he leaves, he doesn´t go to another PL team at the end of the season.

But what if Wenger resigns then? Or if there are changes in the board? Would RVP reconsider? He has earned the right not to care about all that, and just focus on playing with people that share his ambitions. He deserves to lift some important trophy before he gets old. Unfortunately AW won´t learn anything from RVPs departure, if he hasn´t already resigned by that time.

[Dennis Bendtner]

This is hopefully veering away from overrating him, but it wouldn't surprise me if Barcelona were looking at Koscielny at the moment. That's from a stylistic perspective as much as anything. In terms of defenders being comfortable in possession and wiry/mobile when defending, he would be worth a look. Unless La Masia shits out a defender or two. Obviously, early days.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Some time ago I´d have gone mad if RVP left Arsenal.

Now I only hope that, if he leaves, he doesn´t go to another PL team at the end of the season.

But what if Wenger resigns then? Or if there are changes in the board? Would RVP reconsider? He has earned the right not to care about all that, and just focus on playing with people that share his ambitions. He deserves to lift some important trophy before he gets old. Unfortunately AW won´t learn anything from RVPs departure, if he hasn´t already resigned by that time.

It's have to be more than a managerial change, it'd have to be 'big' signings too. RVP has publically talked about the need for them and we signed Chakma instead.

[Letters]

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

[-Xs-]

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

He may not even have to go before we're mid table; we are already way on course for that eventuality...

[Letters]

He may not even have to go before we're mid table; we are already way on course for that eventuality...

I think we'll finish 5th this year by default simply because everyone else is even worse. But right now it's only RvP keeping us that high.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think we'll finish 5th this year by default simply because everyone else is even worse. But right now it's only RvP keeping us that high.

That and the fact that the sqaud sems shot of confidence and the manager and baord are happy to finish 6th and have written off the season. Don't think it will bother them to miss out on the europa league tbh

[Letters]

If we're not going to qualify for the CL then I'd rather miss out on the Carling Cup of Europe .
Obviously they would then reduce season ticket prices

( :lol: )

[Coney]

If not making the CL finally forces change so we invest in players, then I'd be less concerned. As far as the Europa League is concerned, if we were to end up in that but actually win it, at least we would have something for the players to build on. Coming out with nothing for a couple more years would hardly be inspiring. I'll even settle for the FA Cup this year if it means the team having something to give them a boost, however small.

[Marc Overmars]

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If not making the CL finally forces change so we invest in players, then I'd be less concerned. As far as the Europa League is concerned, if we were to end up in that but actually win it, at least we would have something for the players to build on. Coming out with nothing for a couple more years would hardly be inspiring. I'll even settle for the FA Cup this year if it means the team having something to give them a boost, however small.

Yep time to focus on that and hope for 4th even the fa cup and 5th the fans would settle for.

[Master Splinter]

:faint:

:woohoo: :dance: :scarf: :partytime:

Letters :bow:.

[Coney]

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players? The Europa is not as impressive as the CL, but it is better than bugger all. Competing with 6/7 teams for the CL/EL spots and coming 5th by a couple of points off 4th at least shows possibilities for the next year. Failing to even qualify for the EL after all the years in the CL, failing to win anything for 6 years after having been dominant and collecting silverware for the preceding 10 years is the sign of a club in decline.

While we are not terminally damaged, we are holed below the waterline and need to get some repairs done NOW. Like this window. A couple of decent buys and we have every chance of getting a CL spot. No significant buys and we are certainly doomed to not being in the CL and a fair chance of not being in European competitions at all. Now if the club was short of dosh I'd understand but we are not and there is no financial reason why we should not make the investment.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players? The Europa is not as impressive as the CL, but it is better than bugger all. Competing with 6/7 teams for the CL/EL spots and coming 5th by a couple of points off 4th at least shows possibilities for the next year. Failing to even qualify for the EL after all the years in the CL, failing to win anything for 6 years after having been dominant and collecting silverware for the preceding 10 years is the sign of a club in decline.

While we are not terminally damaged, we are holed below the waterline and need to get some repairs done NOW. Like this window. A couple of decent buys and we have every chance of getting a CL spot. No significant buys and we are certainly doomed to not being in the CL and a fair chance of not being in European competitions at all. Now if the club was short of dosh I'd understand but we are not and there is no financial reason why we should not make the investment.

There is only one way we will get in the cl is if we win the thing, and money won't be spent for us to do it. We get a god draw we could go far in the comp and who knows.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

Yeah if we have any designs of getting back in to the Champions League then being in the Europa League will just benefit us in terms of future seeding, let alone the fact it is a trophy.

[Letters]

If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players?

Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

[Coney]

Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

Maybe we should put in a cheeky bid, buy 'arry and sack Wenger. ;)

[Letters]

Maybe we should put in a cheeky bid, buy 'arry and sack Wenger. ;)

:ilt:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

Problem will be our top players won;t want to play in it we just play the kids till the 1/4 stage. we won't take it serious at all.

[Boss]

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

1 will we be challenging for the league next season ?
2 it would suck to have to do that whole sunday/Thursday thing.

[Cripps_orig]

Would rather be in the Europa League then not be in Europe at all

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

Actually if we had been in the Europa League this season compared to what games we have played in the Champions League, we would have played the same amount of games. It's only the Round of 32 that the Europa League has that the Champions League doesn't (assuming we would only finish fourth at best).

Also, towards the end of the group games in Europe you could possibly play on Wednesday. Far too much is,made of it being Thursday/Sunday anyway. How is it any different from maybe having to play on a Wednesday and then again on a Saturday? We've had long gaps between games recently and we still haven't been performing well.

We're not going to 'attract' players because we don't really ever try. And if it was the case they're going to say 'no chance, you're not in the Champions League' then I guess we should probably try to get those players now.

If you want us back in the Champions League and you want us to conceivably do well in it, then not being in the Europa League isn't going to help that - our coefficient will suffer and thus the likeliness of going out of the Champions League group stage would be increased.

[Letters]

IMO not being in the Europa League next year would give us a better chance of finishing top 4 as we wouldn't have the burden of the extra games. And, frankly, I struggle to get excited about the early stages of the CL, I certainly couldn't get excited about us being in the Europa League until maybe near the end if we got there.
In brief: Meh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

IMO not being in the Europa League next year would give us a better chance of finishing top 4 as we wouldn't have the burden of the extra games. And, frankly, I struggle to get excited about the early stages of the CL, I certainly couldn't get excited about us being in the Europa League until maybe near the end if we got there.
In brief: Meh.

Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games. And they wouldn't even come in to consideration until February/March. Your excitement or lackthereof is a personal thing so I can't really say anything against it but that also doesn't really have much relevance for Arsenal; the team, that is.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

Then he really should have demamded to go in the summer, im sure Wenger has sat him down and explained to him whats going on at the club and what is likely to happen in the next few seasons. IMO he will go because he will want to win big trophies which won't be won with us and wenger will let him like cesc last season.

[Cripps_orig]

I just want us to be in it cos of

1 - we wont play our first team in it, probably the youngsters and far more easier for me to go support them than it is the waste of space First Team Pub Teamers

2 - Watch more games if we're in it than if we're not

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games. And they wouldn't even come in to consideration until February/March. Your excitement or lackthereof is a personal thing so I can't really say anything against it but that also doesn't really have much relevance for Arsenal; the team, that is.

do you really want to watch us taken on some shite team from uzbekistan

[McNamara That Ghost...]

do you really want to watch us taken on some shite team from uzbekistan

Well they're the team I support so I am going to watch us regardless of who we play. I think you're missing the point anyway.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well they're the team I support so I am going to watch us regardless of who we play. I think you're missing the point anyway.

I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every week

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every week

We wouldn't because I don't think we'd play our strongest side. I'd rather we would though.

[Cripps_orig]

I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every weekAre we playing Tennis, best out of 3 sets?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Are we playing Tennis, best out of 3 sets?

6 nill then

[McNamara That Ghost...]

6 nill then

:blink:

[Letters]

Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games.

Well no, you're comparing the number of games between CL and Europa. I'm comparing the number of games between Europa League and no Europe at all. It's a lot of extra games.

[Boss]

Actually if we had been in the Europa League this season compared to what games we have played in the Champions League, we would have played the same amount of games. It's only the Round of 32 that the Europa League has that the Champions League doesn't (assuming we would only finish fourth at best).

Also, towards the end of the group games in Europe you could possibly play on Wednesday. Far too much is,made of it being Thursday/Sunday anyway. How is it any different from maybe having to play on a Wednesday and then again on a Saturday? We've had long gaps between games recently and we still haven't been performing well.

We're not going to 'attract' players because we don't really ever try. And if it was the case they're going to say 'no chance, you're not in the Champions League' then I guess we should probably try to get those players now.

If you want us back in the Champions League and you want us to conceivably do well in it, then not being in the Europa League isn't going to help that - our coefficient will suffer and thus the likeliness of going out of the Champions League group stage would be increased.

We 'tolerate' the CL games making our squad tired, giving us extra injuries because the rewards of being in the CL (financial, for the club, and competing against the best sides in Europe, for the fans) outweigh this. We've seen how decimated our squad gets by injuries, partly due to playing in the CL but not being in the CL and having a fresher squad would not be chosen by any fan if they had that option.

The Europa League offers no such benefits. It's a drawn out competition for the losers of Europe. Were we in it, we'd be expected to win it. Winning it would not bring that much joy to the club as it's expected while not winning it brings embarrassment and shame. Financially it is a complete waste of time - if I'm right the group stages of the CL provide you with more money than winning the EL does, and we're hardly testing ourselves against the very best of Europe.

The argument that we'd get to see more of the youth team play is perhaps true, but it's more due to flawed thinking by the manager than anything else. We don't have that many top youth talents - ignoring the likes of Chesney, Wilshere, Ramsey, Song, Walcott etc who are first teamers now we only have Chamberlain, Miquel, Jenkinson, Yennaris, Miyaichi, Campbell, Coquelin etc they can always be sent out on loan or given a chance in the Carling Cup. If they are good enough to play, they should be playing for the first team - playing in a worthless competition does nothing to help them do this.

I'd rather have injuries, a tired squad and the CL, of course, but not having the EL and having a much fresher (since we'd play around 20% less games) squad for the league and two cups would be much preferred by me.

[LDG]

In some ways, I'd prefer a proper season of re-building.

None of this "put a sticking plaster on and hope that it stays in place" crap.

Concentrate soley on the domestic campaign.

RVP still has another year on his contract don't forget, so he'll be nearly 30 by the time it has elapsed....might as well just let him go after that, IMO.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Well no, you're comparing the number of games between CL and Europa. I'm comparing the number of games between Europa League and no Europe at all. It's a lot of extra games.

Well we're in the Champions League this season, that's why. If there are only two more games to cope with what we have had to cope with this season, it's probably easier to gauge there wouldn't be a huge amount of difference. Having big gaps between games makes no difference if you don't have the requisite quality (look at Liverpool this season). Also, am I right to guess you'd rather we finished sixth (seventh if Citeh won the Carling Cup)?

[Coney]

In some ways, I'd prefer a proper season of re-building.

None of this "put a sticking plaster on and hope that it stays in place" crap.

Concentrate soley on the domestic campaign.

RVP still has another year on his contract don't forget, so he'll be nearly 30 by the time it has elapsed....might as well just let him go after that, IMO.

If I thought for one moment that dropping out of the other competitions and focusing on the league next year would put us back on track, I'd be OK with it. However, until there is a change in attitude by Wenger/Board/PowersThatBe, I regard that as a nonstarter.

If we are 6th or lower and don't win anything this year and Wenger moves out of the way to allow for a fresh manager with credentials, then maybe we will see a motivated team. In that case, I'd say lose the waste of space players in the summer - ones who are crap or have still not achieved potential after their 537th chance - keep the good nucleus and buy some fresh players uncontaminated by years of the underachievement at the Arsenal which must surely be rubbing off on the squad.

[Syn]

Whether or not we'd place an importance on the Europa league, we would go quite far in it. If we drop out of the top 4 and if we have a summer where other teams consolidate further and we are weakened with Van Persie leaving, I have a feeling we'd go back to being cup specialists with average league seasons. Our youth seems to have that character about them. Wilshere, Szczesny, Oxlade, Jenkinson and others - you can imagine them picking it up for the big games but not having the consistency to do well in the league.

[Letters]

Well we're in the Champions League this season, that's why. If there are only two more games to cope with what we have had to cope with this season, it's probably easier to gauge there wouldn't be a huge amount of difference. Having big gaps between games makes no difference if you don't have the requisite quality (look at Liverpool this season). Also, am I right to guess you'd rather we finished sixth (seventh if Citeh won the Carling Cup)?

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We 'tolerate' the CL games making our squad tired, giving us extra injuries because the rewards of being in the CL (financial, for the club, and competing against the best sides in Europe, for the fans) outweigh this. We've seen how decimated our squad gets by injuries, partly due to playing in the CL but not being in the CL and having a fresher squad would not be chosen by any fan if they had that option.

The Europa League offers no such benefits. It's a drawn out competition for the losers of Europe. Were we in it, we'd be expected to win it. Winning it would not bring that much joy to the club as it's expected while not winning it brings embarrassment and shame. Financially it is a complete waste of time - if I'm right the group stages of the CL provide you with more money than winning the EL does, and we're hardly testing ourselves against the very best of Europe.

The argument that we'd get to see more of the youth team play is perhaps true, but it's more due to flawed thinking by the manager than anything else. We don't have that many top youth talents - ignoring the likes of Chesney, Wilshere, Ramsey, Song, Walcott etc who are first teamers now we only have Chamberlain, Miquel, Jenkinson, Yennaris, Miyaichi, Campbell, Coquelin etc they can always be sent out on loan or given a chance in the Carling Cup. If they are good enough to play, they should be playing for the first team - playing in a worthless competition does nothing to help them do this.

I'd rather have injuries, a tired squad and the CL, of course, but not having the EL and having a much fresher (since we'd play around 20% less games) squad for the league and two cups would be much preferred by me.

No I would say it's the Premier League that has more impact on players fitness, mainly due to the way the game is played - generally at 100mph. We aren't passing as well anymore, that means we have to work harder to get the ball back. In the Premier League when you're being chased and harried for most of the game, it's going to be much harder for a side of our quality to achieve.

If the Champions League group stage is the tipping point to make them tired by December (six games over three months minimum!) then they shouldn't be professionals in the first place.

I really do not care what other teams viewpoint of the competition is, I think it's gross arrogance really the disdain the competition is given. It isn't treated with the same derision in Spain where the gap between being in the Champions League and not is probably more profound than it is over here, given the safety blanket the Premier League provides.

In terms of the teams participating in it, I daresay we'd probably encounter a few teams on roughly the same level of quality that we are at, should we get particularly far in to it. Now that might be because the competition is filled with dropouts from the Champions League but, for that reason, it's probably not the worst idea in the world.

It's not flawed thinking that we would play our youth players in that competition because that's probably exactly what Wenger would do. I'd rather we wouldn't, like I said before.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

I see but do you want us to be in the top four because of the grandeur of the competition we get in to, or the financial benefits achieving that would (supposed to) give? Or both?

[LDG]

I agree with Letters, but for the sole reason that if we keep on trying to patch up age old problems within our team, we'll continue to tread water or sink.

We need a revamp, and the distractions of this "4th place" being successful and vindication of a good season, stop the real business of sorting this stiking mess out.

[Letters]

I see but do you want us to be in the top four because of the grandeur of the competition we get in to, or the financial benefits achieving that would (supposed to) give? Or both?

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

you mean in the top 10 right?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

No, I suppose the Europa League probably doesn't. However finishing higher up in the league, does, financially. If it gets harder for us, should we ever get back in to the Champions League to get through the group stage of the Champions League, don't we lose out on the money we have earnt by reaching the last 16 this season? And what if, England's coefficient goes down without us being in Europe at all? Eventually that could well mean England loses its fourth spot. Now granted that's a way off yet but it shouldn't be taken for granted that it will always be there.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No, I suppose the Europa League probably doesn't. However finishing higher up in the league, does, financially. If it gets harder for us, should we ever get back in to the Champions League to get through the group stage of the Champions League, don't we lose out on the money we have earnt by reaching the last 16 this season? And what if, England's coefficient goes down without us being in Europe at all? Eventually that could well mean England loses its fourth spot. Now granted that's a way off yet but it shouldn't be taken for granted that it will always be there.

Which won't be a bad thing at all tbh.

[Syn]

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

I don't think I said that. I think we'd go far in the competition and in other cup competitions if there is a revamp but would struggle more in the league. IMO our young players are made for being cup heroes.

[Boss]

Whether or not we'd place an importance on the Europa league, we would go quite far in it. If we drop out of the top 4 and if we have a summer where other teams consolidate further and we are weakened with Van Persie leaving, I have a feeling we'd go back to being cup specialists with average league seasons. Our youth seems to have that character about them. Wilshere, Szczesny, Oxlade, Jenkinson and others - you can imagine them picking it up for the big games but not having the consistency to do well in the league.

I don't think that's unique to our youth and is probably true of a decent majority of players across the game. When you're at that level it's fair enough that you're going to look forward to some games more than others, games against the top teams and derby matches, for example. It's quite common that teams lower than us in the league will raise their games whenever they play the top four yet be complete shite against similar level opposition - see Swansea playing out of their skins against us (effort wise) vs being ineffective against Sunderland, Bolton being poor for most of the season yet destroying Liverpool, Norwich and Wolves having a decent ish games (performance wise if not results) against the top four compared to lower teams in the league. Look at Liverpool, who have been extremely poor against weaker teams this season but managed to pull out a top drawer performance against Citeh away.

Think most players motivation will drop for 'smaller' games, it's down to the manager to keep them motivated and make sure they're sent out to be professional. Ours patently isn't as good as motivating as others, but that's been discussed on here before.

[Letters]

I don't think I said that.

Sorry, it was TEG. :youpeoplealllookthesame:

[Kano]

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

if looked at from a pure uk perspective, which is ridiculosly snobbish but partly understandable due to being so spoilt with cl football success in the this country.

if you are in europe in any capacity, then you stay in the hunt for at least some of the talented guys around europe. europe is still very interested in this competition and rightly so, and it is pivotal for the progression of this club to remain in europe.

[Boss]

if looked at from a pure uk perspective, which is ridiculosly snobbish but partly understandable due to being so spoilt with cl football success in the this country.

if you are in europe in any capacity, then you stay in the hunt for at least some of the talented guys around europe. europe is still very interested in this competition and rightly so, and it is pivotal for the progression of this club to remain in europe.

Most of the decent players in Europe, at least the ones at a level of talent that we should be aiming for couldn't give a shit about the Europa League.

[Syn]

I don't think that's unique to our youth and is probably true of a decent majority of players across the game. When you're at that level it's fair enough that you're going to look forward to some games more than others, games against the top teams and derby matches, for example. It's quite common that teams lower than us in the league will raise their games whenever they play the top four yet be complete shite against similar level opposition - see Swansea playing out of their skins against us (effort wise) vs being ineffective against Sunderland, Bolton being poor for most of the season yet destroying Liverpool, Norwich and Wolves having a decent ish games (performance wise if not results) against the top four compared to lower teams in the league. Look at Liverpool, who have been extremely poor against weaker teams this season but managed to pull out a top drawer performance against Citeh away.

Think most players motivation will drop for 'smaller' games, it's down to the manager to keep them motivated and make sure they're sent out to be professional. Ours patently isn't as good as motivating as others, but that's been discussed on here before.

Good point. But I think we still have a little advantage that a few of our youth players aren't just standard pub-team filth but very talented, technically-good players that have already shown they can compete with the best teams. We'll have talentless heroes like Jenkers mixed in with genuine quality of Szcznesy, Wilshere and Oxlade. But maybe I'm overhyping the youth and they're not that much better than those of the other teams.

[Kano]

Most of the decent players in Europe, at least the ones at a level of talent that we should be aiming for couldn't give a shit about the Europa League.
people like hazard etc? those guys would not be turning down a europa league win.

no football player would dismiss a trophy and the chance to celebrate a hard earned victory. for some reason though fans want to insist that players think the same as them when we should really know by now that they don't.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't think that's unique to our youth and is probably true of a decent majority of players across the game. When you're at that level it's fair enough that you're going to look forward to some games more than others, games against the top teams and derby matches, for example. It's quite common that teams lower than us in the league will raise their games whenever they play the top four yet be complete shite against similar level opposition - see Swansea playing out of their skins against us (effort wise) vs being ineffective against Sunderland, Bolton being poor for most of the season yet destroying Liverpool, Norwich and Wolves having a decent ish games (performance wise if not results) against the top four compared to lower teams in the league. Look at Liverpool, who have been extremely poor against weaker teams this season but managed to pull out a top drawer performance against Citeh away.

Think most players motivation will drop for 'smaller' games, it's down to the manager to keep them motivated and make sure they're sent out to be professional. Ours patently isn't as good as motivating as others, but that's been discussed on here before.

If the manager is not motivated the players he is not been motivated himself.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

people like hazard etc? those guys would not be turning down a europa league win.

no football player would dismiss a trophy and the chance to celebrate a hard earned victory. for some reason though fans want to insist that players think the same as them when we should really know by now that they don't.

not if there on 250K a weeks wages no they would not.

[Kano]

not if there on 250K a weeks wages no they would not.
i guess those at psg would then too by that insane logic, or you wouldn't find rio ferdinand celebrating a cc cup win.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

not if there on 250K a weeks wages no they would not.

That's silly. When players notice another club win something, it instantly becomes more attractive - it's more likely we wouldn't be in this vicious cycle if we had been winning cups in the last seven years. Every player wants to win the Champions League; a bit of a generalisation but probably true but by the same token, most players probably want to win something.

[Boss]

people like hazard etc? those guys would not be turning down a europa league win.

no football player would dismiss a trophy and the chance to celebrate a hard earned victory. for some reason though fans want to insist that players think the same as them when we should really know by now that they don't.

Top players want to play in Champions League, and if not that then play for a top team aiming to get there.

If we were in Europa League competing for Hazard, say with Chelsea who qualified for the Champions League, said player would join Chelsea because a) he wanted to play at the top level or b) they offered him more money. He'd join us if he felt we were a better club to win trophies with, offered him more money (unlikely) or were more likely to offer him things like a consistent run in the team / build our team around him.

If we were in the Europa League competing for a player like Hazard with say Liverpool who say weren't in the Europa League, it's not like Hazard would choose to join us over them simply because we were in the Europpa League. They'd look at prestige of the club, chances of top trophies in its near future and if not that, money offered.

It's not like players are more likely to join a club for a chance of winning the FA Cup, same thing with the EL.

[Letters]

I don't think players would join us because we're in the Europa league. If we're serious about attracting top quality players then they'll want to be in the CL. If we're not in the CL for a season then with our history we'll attract top players if we show ambition to get back in there in the following season.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's silly. When players notice another club win something, it instantly becomes more attractive - it's more likely we wouldn't be in this vicious cycle if we had been winning cups in the last seven years. Every player wants to win the Champions League; a bit of a generalisation but probably true but by the same token, most players probably want to win something.

If we had been winning the epl or CL like barca have done i can understand why top players would want to join us. Heck even being in the CL was enough reason to want to join us. Playing in europa won't convince he likes or Hazard or Goteze to come here they more or less go to chavs. spuds or the mancs.

The only way we will get top talents if we don't finish top 4 is to pay big wages which we won't do.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Top players want to play in Champions League, and if not that then play for a top team aiming to get there.

If we were in Europa League competing for Hazard, say with Chelsea who qualified for the Champions League, said player would join Chelsea because a) he wanted to play at the top level or b) they offered him more money. He'd join us if he felt we were a better club to win trophies with, offered him more money (unlikely) or were more likely to offer him things like a consistent run in the team / build our team around him.

If we were in the Europa League competing for a player like Hazard with say Liverpool who say weren't in the Europa League, it's not like Hazard would choose to join us over them simply because we were in the Europpa League. They'd look at prestige of the club, chances of top trophies in its near future and if not that, money offered.

It's not like players are more likely to join a club for a chance of winning the FA Cup, same thing with the EL.

:gp:

[Boss]

That's silly. When players notice another club win something, it instantly becomes more attractive - it's more likely we wouldn't be in this vicious cycle if we had been winning cups in the last seven years. Every player wants to win the Champions League; a bit of a generalisation but probably true but by the same token, most players probably want to win something.

Not if the trophy was worthless, as the Europa League is seen as by the elite of Europe. Everyone wants to be in the CL, the EL is an afterthought. Winning the EL may be a wonderful thing for players that play for the likes of Bolton and Sunderland but for top players they would rather join a club to have a smaller chance of winning the Champions League than a club with a bigger chance of winning the EL. If winning something was that important you'd have a host of top players in garbage leagues like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc competing for their top trophies, given that they're about as valuable as the Europa League.

[Syn]

I don't rate the UEFA Cup now but I didn't rate the Carling Cup and last season's was a lot of fun (until the final). It might not help us attract players and maybe it might provide a hindrance in the league but for fans, we could have some fun with it. The competition has seen some great football played - especially the year Zenit won it. Even though it might not count for much, as a fan, it's always nice to enjoy a good cup run. Some decent away trips for the fans. :shrug:

[LDG]

In all honesty, Wages, ambition etc all come into it.

But we're a big club. The reason we're not signing these types of players, is because we choose not too.

That won't stop, even if we drop out of the CL.

Doesn't matter what competition we're in, we have the ability to buy players, regardless. Which is one reason why it seems so stupid we're not just biting the bullet and spending a few quid to get us back up the table again.

[Kano]

Top players want to play in Champions League, and if not that then play for a top team aiming to get there.

If we were in Europa League competing for Hazard, say with Chelsea who qualified for the Champions League, said player would join Chelsea because a) he wanted to play at the top level or b) they offered him more money. He'd join us if he felt we were a better club to win trophies with, offered him more money (unlikely) or were more likely to offer him things like a consistent run in the team / build our team around him.

If we were in the Europa League competing for a player like Hazard with say Liverpool who say weren't in the Europa League, it's not like Hazard would choose to join us over them simply because we were in the Europpa League. They'd look at prestige of the club, chances of top trophies in its near future and if not that, money offered.

It's not like players are more likely to join a club for a chance of winning the FA Cup, same thing with the EL.

the europa league is a far more respected competition on the continent but as i said above, too many fans in the uk think that players think just like them and treat the comp with contempt, which really is not true at all.

if suarez was offered the same amount of money by two clubs, with similar recent histories, same wages etc but one of them were in the europa the following season, then the europa team would win. players want to play out of their leagues and test themselves against others, no matter what level, that's how you remain competitive and build your career CV.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

In all honesty, Wages, ambition etc all come into it.

But we're a big club. The reason we're not signing these types of players, is because we choose not too.

That won't stop, even if we drop out of the CL.

Doesn't matter what competition we're in, we have the ability to buy players, regardless. Which is one reason why it seems so stupid we're not just biting the bullet and spending a few quid to get us back up the table again.

Thats the thing we'd have got parker over spuds have we been in for him, he wants cl football and with spuds will get it. don't think we will get many top players in the europa league simply because 1 they won't want to play in it and 2 we won't play them in it till the latter stages.

Players want to play with the best not some 3 division team in eastern europe.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Not if the trophy was worthless, as the Europa League is seen as by the elite of Europe. Everyone wants to be in the CL, the EL is an afterthought. Winning the EL may be a wonderful thing for players that play for the likes of Bolton and Sunderland but for top players they would rather join a club to have a smaller chance of winning the Champions League than a club with a bigger chance of winning the EL. If winning something was that important you'd have a host of top players in garbage leagues like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc competing for their top trophies, given that they're about as valuable as the Europa League.

That's not always true. If it was Suarez never would've joined Liverpool, Falcao never would've joined Atletico Madrid, I mean Porto had qualified for the Champions League! What you're saying would have more weight if we weren't losing players precisiely because we have won nothing. What I would say though, is if you're not in the Champions League and you want to entice very good players, then you will probably have to be prepared to offer more than you normally would. And I suppose, we wouldn't do that.

Like Terry has said, in Europe, the Europa League is generally treated with more goodwill than it is over here. Unless we have a massive seachange we're in the same situation clubs in Spain are; we're not likely to win the league. Yet we receive more money than they (Valencia, Sevillam Levante, Athletic Bilbao) do, even without being in Europe.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's not always true. If it was Suarez never would've joined Liverpool, Falcao never would've joined Atletico Madrid, I mean Porto had qualified for the Champions League! What you're saying would have more weight if we weren't losing players precisiely because we have won nothing. What I would say though, is if you're not in the Champions League and you want to entice very good players, then you will probably have to be prepared to offer more than you normally would. And I suppose, we wouldn't do that.

None of the big clubs bidded for any of these players and going to the teams they did was a step up, had we bid for falcao do you really think he have chose them over us or if the chavs had bidded for suraez do you think he had still gone to pool?

[LDG]

Thats the thing we'd have got parker over spuds have we been in for him, he wants cl football and with spuds will get it. don't think we will get many top players in the europa league simply because 1 they won't want to play in it and 2 we won't play them in it till the latter stages.

Players want to play with the best not some 3 division team in eastern europe.

Eh? Spuds aren't in the CL this year. If he wanted CL football, he would have joined one of the four that are in it.

We just didn't want him, full-stop. Not sure if he would have chosen us, had we been in for him. But we weren't anyway, so the CL thing is of no consequence.

Like I said, as long as you show ambition (or in our case, that you're not a club in meltdown), players will always be tempted by challenges....especially ones a big club like Arsenal can give them.

Problem is, from the outside, we're a club with no ambition, and not looking like we're going to sort it out any time soon.

[Syn]

None of the big clubs bidded for any of these players and going to the teams they did was a step up, had we bid for falcao do you really think he have chose them over us or if the chavs had bidded for suraez do you think he had still gone to pool?

:haha:

(Sorry, I know it's cruel)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

None of the big clubs bidded for any of these players and going to the teams they did was a step up, had we bid for falcao do you really think he have chose them over us or if the chavs had bidded for suraez do you think he had still gone to pool?

You're missing the point again. He left Porto, a big club, that were in the Champions League to join a side, that were not. And anyway, what you're saying is just proving you can get those kind of players without being in the Champions League.

[Marc Overmars]

Eh? Spuds aren't in the CL this year. If he wanted CL football, he would have joined one of the four that are in it.

We just didn't want him, full-stop. Not sure if he would have chosen us, had we been in for him. But we weren't anyway, so the CL thing is of no consequence.

Like I said, as long as you show ambition (or in our case, that you're not a club in meltdown), players will always be tempted by challenges....especially ones a big club like Arsenal can give them.

Problem is, from the outside, we're a club with no ambition, and not looking like we're going to sort it out any time soon.

Spot on.

CL football or not, we act like we're mickey mouse club when we're not.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If we had been winning the epl or CL like barca have done i can understand why top players would want to join us. Heck even being in the CL was enough reason to want to join us. Playing in europa won't convince he likes or Hazard or Goteze to come here they more or less go to chavs. spuds or the mancs.

The only way we will get top talents if we don't finish top 4 is to pay big wages which we won't do.

No, I said winning something makes a club more attractive - not solely being in the Europa League.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Spot on.

CL football or not, we act like we're mickey mouse club when we're not.

Probably true. Mata, for instance.

[Boss]

the europa league is a far more respected competition on the continent but as i said above, too many fans in the uk think that players think just like them and treat the comp with contempt, which really is not true at all.

if suarez was offered the same amount of money by two clubs, with similar recent histories, same wages etc but one of them were in the europa the following season, then the europa team would win. players want to play out of their leagues and test themselves against others, no matter what level, that's how you remain competitive and build your career CV.

It may be seen as a more respected competition but the top players still see it as second best.

With the Suarez scenario you're assuming a perfect world with everything else being equal, which is misguided we know that's never the case. If everything else was the same and one club had Europa League football and one didn't, even assuming that the persuasion methods, city, weather for the clubs was exactly the same, then yes, perhaps the player would be more likely to join the EL side but as that's never the case there's no point discussing it. Whether they have EL football or not is at the bottom of a list of why or why not a player should join a club.

If you look at the list of the top moves last year, of the top 20 (as decided by Goal.com but that doesn't affect us here), only two players moved to clubs with Europa League football, and even in those cases that was more down to the fee paid than the club having Europa League football (Falcao to Atletico, 40M, Pastore to PSG, 42M). As far as I know no one else bid such obscene figures for them. If you look at other top transfers in the last five years, that percentage decreases even further.

List for reference: http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/09/01/2596009/goalcoms-top-20-transfers-of-summer-2011-the-final-list

[Marc Overmars]

If we were Chelsea who always compete for the very best signings, then losing CL football would be a big blow. For us however, who seemingly distance ourselves from that sort of transfer activity, I don't think it makes any difference at all being in CL or not.

[Kano]

It may be seen as a more respected competition but the top players still see it as second best.

With the Suarez scenario you're assuming a perfect world with everything else being equal, which is misguided we know that's never the case. If everything else was the same and one club had Europa League football and one didn't, even assuming that the persuasion methods, city, weather for the clubs was exactly the same, then yes, perhaps the player would be more likely to join the EL side but as that's never the case there's no point discussing it. Whether they have EL football or not is at the bottom of a list of why or why not a player should join a club.

If you look at the list of the top moves last year, of the top 20 (as decided by Goal.com but that doesn't affect us here), only two players moved to clubs with Europa League football, and even in those cases that was more down to the fee paid than the club having Europa League football (Falcao to Atletico, 40M, Pastore to PSG, 42M). As far as I know no one else bid such obscene figures for them. If you look at other top transfers in the last five years, that percentage decreases even further.

List for reference: http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/09/01/2596009/goalcoms-top-20-transfers-of-summer-2011-the-final-list

of course it's seen as a second best competition, that isn't up for debate but completely dismissing it as a pointless waste of time is wrong.

my example is not about a europe dreamland but an example that players do see worth in being part of the competition.

so, you wouldn't expect players to drop down from one to the other - as you can see from the list half of that list moved from cl teams to other cl teams.

we never have and will not for the forseeable future, shop from the top shelf of available players, so the level we will be in the market for will be ready to take el football for now.

[Coney]

What grates is that we don't actually have to buy any of the top 20 best players. There is a raft of talent out there even after Barca, Real, Citeh, Chavs, manu etc have spent their funds - we are just not buying the two or three players that would convert us from an almost team to a winning team. We don't need to replace the entire squad, just lose 3 or 4 dross players, get a goal scorer or two and we can challenge for things. We will just buy another potential goalscorer again. Why the fuck don't we buy someone who has a track record of putting the fucking ball in the fucking net. FFS. :banghead:

[gunnerrrrr]

Rumours RVP handed in transfer request last night....which was rejected by the club...

normally i would say BS, but we all saw him at the final whistle...

[Kano]

oh well. chow down on that son and hang on to the summer.

[LDG]

Rumours RVP handed in transfer request last night....which was rejected by the club...

normally i would say BS, but we all saw him at the final whistle...

:crying:

[LDG]

@BrynLawTimes: Arsenal FC have apparently rejected the transfer request by Robin Van Persie but he has expressed his desire to leave the club.


@BrynLawTimes: Robin Van Persie stated that he was unhappy with the clubs progress and promises were not kept. This should alert a few big clubs.

[Coney]

Rumours RVP handed in transfer request last night....which was rejected by the club...

normally i would say BS, but we all saw him at the final whistle...

They can reject it, but if true, it is a clear statement of intent. Unless they are thick as pigshit, they must realise that since the rest of the squad would know the captain wants to move on, the dressing room morale will drop further unless they make a big positive statement of intent - not a verbal statement, though - it must be visible action in the form of buying some decent players.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Europa League is a big problem for us because it's yet another indicator of a club on the slide and a club with zero ambition. I think players will sign up if they see things moving in a positive direction. So Europa League football should be a stepping stone to bigger things, not the left-overs from a dramatic slide. We do nothing to indicate anybody joining us would be moving forwards. We do everything to suggest to potential signings they might see the team sold around them if they joined. This is our problem. We're a selling club. Whoever thought it was a good idea to fund the stadium by selling off the team should be shot.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

@BrynLawTimes: Arsenal FC have apparently rejected the transfer request by Robin Van Persie but he has expressed his desire to leave the club.


@BrynLawTimes: Robin Van Persie stated that he was unhappy with the clubs progress and promises were not kept. This should alert a few big clubs.

A rumour I believe, sadly.

[Kano]

They can reject it, but if true, it is a clear statement of intent. Unless they are thick as pigshit, they must realise that since the rest of the squad would know the captain wants to move on, the dressing room morale will drop further unless they make a big positive statement of intent - not a verbal statement, though - it must be visible action in the form of buying some decent players.
which quite frankly marks him out as a massive cunt. no one was going to stop him in the summer, it was pretty nailed on he was leaving but hand one in now, like this, after one hot season? IF true, then go fuck yourself robin.

[LDG]

A rumour I believe, sadly.

Well, yeah. And I can't blame him tbh.

[GP]

@BrynLawTimes: Arsenal FC have apparently rejected the transfer request by Robin Van Persie but he has expressed his desire to leave the club.


@BrynLawTimes: Robin Van Persie stated that he was unhappy with the clubs progress and promises were not kept. This should alert a few big clubs.

Bryn Law doesn't work for the Times. Fake account.

[GP]

BrynLaw Bryn
For the avoidance of doubt,I've never worked for the Times and I've know idea what Robin Van Persie's planning..I know nothing!

[Marc Overmars]

Wouldn't surprise me if RVP is fed up.

If he does go hopefully it's to Real Madrid and not City.

[Boss]

Garbage season just got a lot worse.

This is still recoverable of course if we sign some fucking quality but of course we won't.

Can't blame VP at all for this.

[Coney]

which quite frankly marks him out as a massive cunt. no one was going to stop him in the summer, it was pretty nailed on he was leaving but hand one in now, like this, after one hot season? IF true, then go fuck yourself robin.

Unless his intention was to kick the board's ass into buying some more players. If he was promised things by the club and they have failed to deliver, he is entitled to make the request.

[Niall_Quinn]

@BrynLawTimes: Arsenal FC have apparently rejected the transfer request by Robin Van Persie but he has expressed his desire to leave the club.


@BrynLawTimes: Robin Van Persie stated that he was unhappy with the clubs progress and promises were not kept. This should alert a few big clubs.

Curse of the captaincy. Give the armband to Theo next, then Chamakh then Squid. We knew this was going to happen. How many years do you listen to shit like 2% away from greatness? We're 100% away from winning anything, couldn't even beat Birmingham in the CC. Difference with RvP is he's delivered on the pitch, unlike some of the recent bitches who scarpered.

So what's the worst case scenario now? RvP goes in the summer and we don't replace him, or we replace him with a deadbeat. That makes Chamakh the #1, or maybe we ask Campbell to come in and be an instant world beater. Whichever is cheapest I suppose.

[LDG]

which quite frankly marks him out as a massive cunt. no one was going to stop him in the summer, it was pretty nailed on he was leaving but hand one in now, like this, after one hot season? IF true, then go fuck yourself robin.

Eh?

Come on.

He wears his heart on his sleeve and has done his bit for us this year. And bloody right he's pissed off too....he's been the best captain we've had since Vieira, and we still can't be fucked to do anything about the shambles we've been in for well over a year now.

Maybe we as fans can't change what's going on at the club, but I'm sure as shit Robin was feeling exactly what we were all feeling yesterday. And he has the power to do something about it....

Just what we need IMO.

[Coney]

BrynLaw Bryn
For the avoidance of doubt,I've never worked for the Times and I've know idea what Robin Van Persie's planning..I know nothing!

If that is an example of his grammar, I'm not surprised that he was never employed by The Times.

[Niall_Quinn]

which quite frankly marks him out as a massive cunt. no one was going to stop him in the summer, it was pretty nailed on he was leaving but hand one in now, like this, after one hot season? IF true, then go fuck yourself robin.

If he's gone in the summer then why hand in a request now? He knows it won't be granted. So what other reasons could there be? Let's not bail on RvP yet, he could be trying to help.

[Kano]

Unless his intention was to kick the board's ass into buying some more players. If he was promised things by the club and they have failed to deliver, he is entitled to make the request.

of course anyone can hand in their request, knock yourself out but to talk about promises etc etc after one game would be taking the complete piss. he doesn't owe us his career but a certain amount of respect given how long we stuck by him.

anyway, seems to be lies by the sounds of it.

[LDG]

BrynLaw Bryn
For the avoidance of doubt,I've never worked for the Times and I've know idea what Robin Van Persie's planning..I know nothing!

Phew.

I nearly punched something.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Even if fake, says it all we just take it for granted.

[Niall_Quinn]

Phew.

I nearly punched something.

You can punch me if you like, but only if you wear the high-heels.

[LDG]

You can punch me if you like, but only if you wear the high-heels.

DONKEY PUNCH!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Anyone with any interest in Van Persie's career would advise him to get the hell out.

[Niall_Quinn]

DONKEY PUNCH!

Nice shoes!

[Coney]

When he saw Ox being pulled off he nearly swerved off the pitch.

[Grebbo]

Anyone with any interest in Van Persie's career would advise him to get the hell out.

Yep. I almost want him to leave. He's served his time and has a few years left at the top. Arsenal are going nowhere fast.

Why on earth would he stay at Arsenal??

[Olivier's xmas twist]

you go away for 20 mins and all hell breaks loose.

so whats all this about rvp and his transfer request ?

[Niall_Quinn]

you go away for 20 mins and all hell breaks loose.

so whats all this about rvp and his transfer request ?

Somebody was faking the inevitable.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Somebody was faking the inevitable.

Prick needs a beating

[GP]

Prick needs a beating

Harsh on RVP

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Harsh on RVP

So is PHW's face

[Elreactor]

What grates is that we don't actually have to buy any of the top 20 best players. There is a raft of talent out there even after Barca, Real, Citeh, Chavs, manu etc have spent their funds - we are just not buying the two or three players that would convert us from an almost team to a winning team. We don't need to replace the entire squad, just lose 3 or 4 dross players, get a goal scorer or two and we can challenge for things. We will just buy another potential goalscorer again. Why the fuck don't we buy someone who has a track record of putting the fucking ball in the fucking net. FFS. :banghead:

It´s a mystery. Yes there should be a few very good players available for a club like Arsenal, "the right player at the rigth price". Wenger used to find them and get them in the past, but for some reason he doesn´t do that anymore, because they´d disrupt the squad, or they´re not of astronomical super quality. Even now, with no full backs available because of injury, he says he must concentrate on helping them return to fitness, so no decent backup will be brought in.

This lunatic does not seem to notice that letting his best players leave, with no replacements that are up to the task, disrupts his fucking squad in a deeper way than just bringing in some competition for the cheap farts that stay. And if he thinks the focking squad is already "big", well, it´s because it´s full of shit and need some fucking cleansing.

[Coney]

It´s a mystery. Yes there should be a few very good players available for a club like Arsenal, "the right player at the rigth price". Wenger used to find them and get them in the past, but for some reason he doesn´t do that anymore, because they´d disrupt the squad, or they´re not of astronomical super quality. Even now, with no full backs available because of injury, he says he must concentrate on helping them return to fitness, so no decent backup will be brought in.

This lunatic does not seem to notice that letting his best players leave, with no replacements that are up to the task, disrupts his fucking squad in a deeper way than just bringing in some competition for the cheap farts that stay. And if he thinks the focking squad is already "big", well, it´s because it´s full of shit and need some fucking cleansing.

Agreed on the astronomical superquality. If we had players such as Bent, Zamora etc ready to do things in the box, we'd have scored a damn sight more goals and got a lot more points over the last few seasons. I get the impression Wenger won't take them because they don't fit his ideal for the perfect team in the perfect league that exists in his head. The fact is that we are in the PL, the refs work in a certain way, the other teams work in a certain way and sometimes you just need a player big enough to stay up and take on the harder defenders and blast at the goal till it goes in. Maybe sometimes it is a bit of a knuckle-scraping approach but it can get results and if that is what it takes to win the league, lets do it. We can still have the fancy build-up for the aesthetic, but we want the ball in the net.

[Niall_Quinn]

Prick needs a beating

Take your filthy habits elsewhere.

[LDG]

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Take your filthy habits elsewhere.

:getcoat:

[Thierrymon]

RVP responds to his reaction to the OX being subbed. WARNING, WALL OF TEXT.



LET me start by putting the record straight.

I was not having a go at the boss on Sunday — I was just sad to see Alex leave the pitch as he just gave the assist for our only goal.

I was not questioning his judgment — I know it's not my place to challenge what Arsene Wenger does.

He is the boss, he makes the decisions and that's it... end of story.

I have worked with the boss long enough to know there's always a good reason behind his decisions — and there was again on Sunday.

When Arsene makes a decision, it is based on a lot of information that everyone else might not know about and he will never betray.

I admire him so much for that.

As he said after the game, he doesn't have to explain his substitutions to anyone.

He was right to remind everyone that he has been in the job 30 years and made 50,000 substitutions — why on earth should he have to justify each and every one of them?

He has all the information, he knows when a player is carrying a small injury, or has been ill, or is tiring.

Arsene's remarkable success in the game is proof enough that his decisions are made from knowledge and experience.

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain had a calf injury.

We did not know that but the boss did and brought Andrey Arshavin on.

I have a lot of respect and admiration for Arsene Wenger.

He is one of the best football coaches in the world, with a brilliant record of success here at Arsenal.

I wouldn't be here or the player I am without him.

The manager and I are fine and my relationship with the club is good.

I don't want anyone misunderstanding the situation here for a moment.

There is no problem, there is no conflict and there is no controversy. The boss knows that, I know that, the players all know that.

But it's important the Arsenal fans know that and that people in the game know that.

We are all committed to doing the very best we can to bring success to The Emirates.

We are not giving up on a top-four finish, no way.

Losing to Manchester United was a setback — but it is not a knockout blow.









The way this season is going I think it's pretty safe to say there will be a lot more surprises before the Premier League season is over.

There's plenty of games still left, we have recovered from reverses like this before and we will win again.

So anybody writing us off is making a mistake.

This could still be a good season for us.

We have the FA Cup to look forward to and the Champions League.

We will all be giving 100 per cent to make sure we bring one of those trophies home, hopefully both of them.

Let's all stick together and fight.



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4080593/RVP-I-still-get-on-well-with-Arsene.html

[Elreactor]

Great. So, the partial meltdown ended up being just a slight overheating.

Back on track then. Only 2% away from 4th pl errr.. domination

[Boss]

We already know that calf injury is total BS.

Wonder who wrote that statement for RVP :rose:

[Injury Time]

Meanwhile on RvPs real twitter account #joeybartonforenglandlol "what a cunt, I'm outta this shithole asap😝"

[Letters]

Tell you what, if Wenger's made 50,000 substitutions in 30 years then you have to admire his ability to make more than 10 per game.

Wenger :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

10 a game? We're going to lose the seven trophies we won under him. :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

We already know that calf injury is total BS.

Wonder who wrote that statement for RVP :rose:

He has a little bit twinge and is playing with the handbrake on, so fuck you!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He has a little bit twinge and is playing with the handbrake on, so fuck you!

You have to wonder how many injurys are players have really had and how many aw has made up.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

10 a game? We're going to lose the seven trophies we won under him. :rose:

Is that all he has won here not really much is it tbh, then again knowing Arsene's math's it will be doube in his eye's lol

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Tell you what, if Wenger's made 50,000 substitutions in 30 years then you have to admire his ability to make more than 10 per game.

Wenger :bow:

and yet out players still come of injured for 2 months or 2-3 weeks as AW says lol

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Captain Robin van Persie has warned critics they will live to regret writing off Arsenal this season.

Much has been made of the fall-out from the Gunners' 2-1 home defeat by Manchester United last Sunday, which left them five points behind Chelsea after a third successive Premier League loss.

Manager Arsene Wenger was jeered by some fans for his substitution of livewire Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain for the ineffectual Andrey Arshavin.

Captain Van Persie was quick to play down suggestions he had questioned the manager's judgement in an apparent negative reaction to the switch, which was made because Oxlade-Chamberlain - who set up the Dutchman's equaliser - had been hampered by a calf problem.
LIVE ON ESPN

Watch Arsenal v Aston Villa live on ESPN from 3.30pm on Sunday

Van Persie, ahead of Sunday's FA Cup fourth-round tie against Aston Villa, went as far as to post a statement on Facebook, in which he issued a rallying call.
Trophies

"There are plenty of games still left, we have recovered from reverses like this before and we will win again, so anybody writing us off is making a mistake," he said.

"This could still be a good season for us. We have the FA Cup to look forward to and the Champions League.

"We will all be giving 100 per cent to make sure we bring one of those trophies home, hopefully both of them."Let's all stick together and fight."

There was on Thursday some positive news on the recovery of full-back Bacary Sagna, who resumed full training with the rest of the squad for the first time since suffering a fractured right fibula during the defeat at Tottenham on 2nd October.
Ambition

With Andre Santos, Carl Jenkinson and Kieran Gibbs also sidelined, teenage defender Ignasi Miquel has been drafted into a makeshift backline.

Barcelona-born Miquel, 19, has come up through the youth ranks at Arsenal, captaining the reserves before being handed his first-team debut in last season's FA Cup fifth-round tie at Leyton Orient.

The young Spaniard, who has been asked to operate as a left-back, is hoping an extended cup run can fulfil a life-long ambition.

"It is a dream to play at Wembley in a big final. First, we have to go step by step, but obviously if we can get to Wembley it would be a big, big thing for us," Miquel said.

"We have not won a title for quite long, so it would be great for us - but our next game is on Sunday against Aston Villa and we must focus on that."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/7458636/RVP-Critics-making-a-mistake

[Cripps_orig]

Barcelona vice-president Josep Maria Bartomeu has insisted that Arsenal attacker Robin van Persie is not a transfer target for the Blaugrana for the time being.

A number of recent reports in Spain suggested that the Netherlands international has attracted the interest of the Champions League holders with a series of superb performances this term, but Bartomeu feels this is not the right time to think about a transfer.

"There is nothing going on at the moment," Bartomeu told Spanish newspaper Sport.

"There are some rumours, but this is not the right time to talk about Van Persie. We have to focus on our performances on the pitch."

Van Persie has a contract with Arsenal until the summer of 2013, and the Gunners are desperate to open talks about a new deal.

Nevertheless, the Dutchman seems to have no interest in discussing a contract extension at this stage of the season, thus fuelling speculations that he could leave the club this summer.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2012/02/05/2887953/barcelona-vice-president-josep-bartomeu-there-is-nothing-in-talk-

So it begins

[Fist of Lehmann]

Is that all he has won here not really much is it tbh, then again knowing Arsene's math's it will be doube in his eye's lolJust for clarity. I too laughed at his silly 50,000 substitutions comment.

Until I listened to the actual press conference.

He doesn't say 50,000 substitions, he says "I've made 50,000 decisions/substitutions..."
Has he made 50,000 decisions in 30 year of management? Well yeah, probably that and more.

[GP]

Just for clarity. I too laughed at his silly 50,000 substitutions comment.

Until I listened to the actual press conference.

He doesn't say 50,000 substitions, he says "I've made 50,000 decisions/substitutions..."
Has he made 50,000 decisions in 30 year of management? Well yeah, probably that and more.

50,000 wrong decisions! LOL!

[Fist of Lehmann]

50,000 wrong decisions! LOL!And yet somehow still not as wrong as your face.

[GP]

And yet somehow still not as wrong as your face.

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsenal will scrap their wage cap in a bid to keep their best players and attract stellar signings.

The current limit is about £100,000 a week.

But amid the fall-out from their *disastrous 4-0 Champions League defeat at AC Milan there is an acceptance among the Gunners hierarchy that there must be a major change of direction.

The board believe there are *extensive funds available for *manager Arsene Wenger’s transfer *targets.

But Arsenal have found to their cost in recent times that the lure of sky-high wages offered by the likes of Manchester City can tempt *talented young players to leave. Last summer, they lost France *midfielder Samir Nasri to City where he is earning a *reported £200,000 a week.

Old school Arsenal had no chance of matching that and so Nasri left.

Now Wenger is to be given the green light to spend big – and pay big. The first *beneficiary of any new policy is set to be in-form striker Robin van Persie.

The Dutch star has one year left on his current deal and Wenger should now be able to offer him the chance to almost double his wages as well as push for transfer targets like Edin *Hazard of Lille and Mario Goetze of Borussia Dortmund in the summer. The club’s finances have never been healthier and there is a sizeable war chest at Wenger’s disposal.

But wages have always been a stumbling block and that barrier is now set to be dismantled.

The ‘cash is king’ approach has been evident in recent years – first at Chelsea, then at Manchester City and more *recently at Paris St Germain who have been spending *fortunes on transfer fees and salaries under former Chelsea *manager Carlo *Ancelotti.

And at PSG, the myth has been blown apart about *participation in Champions League football being *essential to attract the best.

Now, at last, Arsenal are set to join to the big league. Their current wage bill is among the highest in the country but that is because Wenger insists that all squad players earn comparable sums.

But because of the wage limits, he has not been able to pay the £150,000 a-week plus deals on offer at other clubs.

He competed with Manchester United for Phil Jones, Ashley Young and Chris Smalling.

But the pay on offer at Old Trafford was a major factor in the trio going to join Sir Alex Ferguson’s young squad.

Without the wage restrictions, Wenger will at least be able to *compete on a level playing field with the other big hitters after seasons of bargain hunting during the transfer windows.


http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/EXCLUSIVE-Arsenal-set-to-smash-wage-cap-to-keep-Robin-van-Persie-and-attract-new-star-signings-article866960.html

[GP]

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/i-dont-always-cry-but-when-i-do-its-because-angels-deserve-to-die.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The club captain and talisman is out of contract next year and has so far refused to publicly discuss his long-term future, but the indications are that he is now prepared to hold provisional talks with the Arsenal hierarchy.

It remains unlikely that any deal will be finalised before the end of the season — and there is clarity over Arsenal’s Champions League status — but Van Persie’s willingness to listen would still be an extremely positive step forward for the club.

It is understood that Arsenal are considering an offer whereby Van Persie would be paid a substantial ‘renewal’ fee in addition to significantly improved terms on a salary that is currently around £80,000 a week.

Van Persie will be aware that other players of comparable world-class quality are on around double that wage, with Arsenal considering a rise that would take him beyond £100,000 a week.

Arsenal have around £55 million available to invest in the squad and must balance the desire to renew Van Persie’s contract with having funds to spend this summer on new players.
Wenger’s budget includes player wages, creating a quandary over how much money is directed towards the renewal of contracts.

Even if Van Persie does not accept the likely offer from Arsenal of a four-year contract, his departure this summer is not a foregone conclusion.

Arsenal seriously considered holding Samir Nasri to his contract last summer and, if the same scenario arises with Van Persie, there will be a strong argument to keep him for another season even if he could then leave for nothing in the summer of 2013.

Van Persie is the Premier League leading goalscorer and, at such a pivotal moment in Arsenal’s history, is clearly of greater short-term importance than Nasri.

With Van Persie turning 29 in August, there is also no guarantee that leading European clubs will be prepared to pay a transfer fee in excess of £20  million.

A significant squad overhaul is under consideration this summer, however, with Andrei Arshavin, Tomas Rosicky and Theo Walcott all in the final 18 months of their contracts.

The expectation is that talks will also be held with representatives of both Walcott and Rosicky over the next month, with Dick Law, the club’s lead negotiator, now focusing on existing player contracts following the closure of the January transfer window.

Rosicky is expected to agree a one-year contract but, as with Van Persie, the situation with Walcott is unlikely to be resolved until Arsenal’s season has ended.

Preliminary talks have been held between Arsenal and Walcott but no formal offer has been made.

Arshavin appears unlikely to be offered a new contract and, although Anzhi Makhachkala are expected to launch a fresh bid ahead of the closure of the Russian transfer window on Friday, he is likely to stay at Arsenal until at least the end of the season.

Others who could depart on loan before the end of the season include Lukas Fabianski and Ju Young Park.

Arsenal’s strategy in relation to player contracts is likely to be addressed at a board meeting this Thursday that will be attended by Wenger and the club’s majority owner Stan Kroenke.

Arsenal do still have the fourth highest wage bill in the Premier League but there is an argument there should be a larger gap between their stars, such as Van Persie, and more average squad players.

The short-term focus, though, is Sunday’s north London derby against Tottenham and staying ahead of Chelsea, Liverpool and Newcastle in the battle to finish fourth.

Arsenal have been boosted by the news that Laurent Koscielny and Kieran Gibbs should return in defence.

There is also the hope that Jack Wilshere and Abou Diaby will still play a part in the run-in to the season.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9094585/Arsenals-star-player-Robin-van-Persie-is-ready-to-start-talks-about-staying-with-the-club.html

Time to suck RVP dick AW give him what the feck he wants

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Barcelona vice-president Josep Maria Bartomeu says the club will not 'enter the madness market' this summer in pursuit of fresh faces.

It has been reported that the Catalan giants will once again look to add world-class talent to their ranks when the window re-opens.

Moves for Tottenham winger Gareth Bale and Arsenal striker Robin van Persie have been mooted, with Barca known to be admirers of both.

Bartomeu is prepared to admit that the North London rivals would be welcome additions to the Camp Nou ranks, but insists they have no plans to make a move.

He is aware that sizeable fees would be required to lure Bale and Van Persie away from their current employers, and he claims Barca are not prepared to spend that kind of money.

Common sense
"Those players are very good, but we always need common sense in any negotiations," said Bartomeu.

"We will not enter the madness market because it is impossible for Barcelona to pay 40 or 50million Euros (£33-42m) for any player.

"This is a decision of the club.

"We can't fight against every club. But we have an advantage in that players want to come and play for Barcelona."

.


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/7535783/Barca-won-t-break-the-bank

[Syn]

Time to suck RVP dick AW give him what the feck he wants

Imagine that in contract negotiations.

Arsenal: We'll give you £10k a week and Arshavin's parking spot.
RVP: £150k a week and Wenger sucking me off.
Arsenal: £11k a week, Arshavin's parking spot + a lifetime supply of horse placenta.
RVP: £120k a week, all the ganj in Song's house and Wenger sucking me off.
Arsenal: £120k a wekk, all the ganj in Song's house, Arshavin's parking spot, a lifetime supply of horse placenta but no sucking off.
RVP: Deal.
Arsenal: Great. The paperwork will be done soon and you'll get your new contract in 10-12 weeks. In the meantime don't talk to Man City pls kthxbai.

That's probably exactly how it'll go. I should write screenplays tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Imagine that in contract negotiations.

Arsenal: We'll give you £10k a week and Arshavin's parking spot.
RVP: £150k a week and Wenger sucking me off.
Arsenal: £11k a week, Arshavin's parking spot + a lifetime supply of horse placenta.
RVP: £120k a week, all the ganj in Song's house and Wenger sucking me off.
Arsenal: £120k a wekk, all the ganj in Song's house, Arshavin's parking spot, a lifetime supply of horse placenta but no sucking off.
RVP: Deal.
Arsenal: Great. The paperwork will be done soon and you'll get your new contract in 10-12 weeks. In the meantime don't talk to Man City pls kthxbai.

That's probably exactly how it'll go. I should write screenplays tbh.

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Cesc Fabregas has revealed that he has no plans to try and tempt Robin van Persie to join him at Barcelona but thinks his own fight to leave Arsenal was worthwhile.

The Blaugrana midfielder is enjoying life back at the Catalan club where he started before moving to London aged 16 and has been linked with helping his former clubmate join him.


Instead, Fabregas states that while he does speak regularly to Van Persie he has no intention of swaying his decision when the Dutchman has to choose whether to renew his contract at the Emirates Stadium.
Sacrifice

"I talk to him but not about Barca," Fabregas told El Mundo Deportivo.

"He is an Arsenal player and he knows what is best for him. I only wish the best of luck for him before he makes whatever decision he will make."

Fabregas was reported to have given up around €5million (£4.2m) in wages to force a move back to Barcelona and he thinks that any sacrifices were valid.

"Everything that I did to come here and all the help that I received from Barca, from the coach, the president and my team-mates has been worth the effort," added Fabregas.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/7542464/Cesc-won-t-tempt-Van-Persie



Barca start the tapping up already what an alwful club.

[Marc Overmars]

RVP is man enough to make his own decision, whatever is spouted in the media won't make a difference.

[Master Splinter]

"Everything that I did to come here and all the help that I received from Barca, from the coach, the president and my team-mates has been worth the effort," added Fabregas.

If there was ever any doubt........

[Japan Shaking All Over]

If there was ever any doubt........

Nothing like a bit of teamwork!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nothing like a bit of teamwork!

Well his pass to Messi in last years CL game was Alwsome tbh.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/362/fabregasdontgo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/fabregasdontgo.jpg/)

Cesc begging and Pleading to Join Barca

[Ollie the Optimist]

i actually cant see RVP walking out on us, he loves being captain, hell he is the best captain since viera. granted not much competition but still. he loves this club, he is a gooner, i genuinely believe he will stay and help us. he isnt a nasri or a fabregas who will run away

[Niall_Quinn]

i actually cant see RVP walking out on us, he loves being captain, hell he is the best captain since viera. granted not much competition but still. he loves this club, he is a gooner, i genuinely believe he will stay and help us. he isnt a nasri or a fabregas who will run away

Maybe. But I respect the guy and I'm not sure it would be a sign of respect to ask him to stay and continue propping up this shit house. I think he deserves to win a few more medals given he's one of the best players to grace the PL. There's absolutely no hope whatsoever of that happening here. If he chooses to stay then that will be a sacrifice and a half. I know he'll only stay for a lot more cash but why shouldn't he get it if he'll have to abandon all hope of winning anything in the process? Plus he's already earned it, unlike the slimy bastards who run the club.

[Özim]

Personally I think he should leave with the current state of things, his talent deserves a few more medals.

Gerrard was on football focus today saying that winning the CC is more important than getting 4th to him and it is as it means another medal which he can look at at the end of his career. Wenger doesn't understand the important on winning medals for top players, he thinks 4th place is enough to keep them....he's so wrong.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Personally I think he should leave with the current state of things, his talent deserves a few more medals.

Gerrard was on football focus today saying that winning the CC is more important than getting 4th to him and it is as it means another medal which he can look at at the end of his career. Wenger doesn't understand the important on winning medals for top players, he thinks 4th place is enough to keep them....he's so wrong.
To be fair, I think Bellamy said exactly the opposite last week :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Any player who is satisfied with 4th place is a loser.

[LDG]

Personally I think he should leave with the current state of things, his talent deserves a few more medals.

Gerrard was on football focus today saying that winning the CC is more important than getting 4th to him and it is as it means another medal which he can look at at the end of his career. Wenger doesn't understand the important on winning medals for top players, he thinks 4th place is enough to keep them....he's so wrong.

Who signed RVP?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Personally I think he should leave with the current state of things, his talent deserves a few more medals.

Gerrard was on football focus today saying that winning the CC is more important than getting 4th to him and it is as it means another medal which he can look at at the end of his career. Wenger doesn't understand the important on winning medals for top players, he thinks 4th place is enough to keep them....he's so wrong.

Gerrard is ending his career and needs all the medals he can get tbf. Don't think he said any diffrent on the eve of a cup final as captain he has to motivate his team to win the game.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He scores when he wants.

:scarf:

[Marc Overmars]

He scores when he waaaaants, Robin Van Persie, he scores when he wants.

[Cripps_orig]

WOJCIECH SZCZESNY is confident hitman Robin van Persie will stay at Arsenal beyond the current campaign.

The Dutch striker was again instrumental for the Gunners, scoring his 29th goal of the season, as they came from two goals behind to thrash arch-rivals Tottenham 5-2.

Despite having just a year left on his current deal, Van Persie has made it clear he will not discuss fresh terms until the summer.

But Szczesny believes his team-mate has every intention of extending his stay at the Emirates.

The 21-year-old said: "We are trying to make the most of it while he is here, he is a great captain and leader of the team and we are very pleased to have him.

"I'm personally confident that he will stay at Arsenal. That is where he belongs and that is where he is at his very best.

"Robin does his talking on the pitch by scoring all the goals for this club and I think that shows you his commitment."

Szczesny jokingly added: "He's not bad, is he? He only scored one goal against Spurs, though, which is really disappointing for him. We are used to him scoring a hat-trick.

"He is the best player in the Premier League and we are very pleased to have him."

Polish keeper Szczesny was seen celebrating Arsenal's fourth goal against Harry Redknapp's men with a somersault.

It was his first taste of victory in the North London derby having previously featured in two defeats and a draw.

And Arsenal's No1 ranked yesterday's win alongside last season's Champions League triumph against Barcelona at the Emirates.

Szczesny said: "It is comparable to that of beating Barcelona.

"It is a great feeling, probably one of the best I have ever had.

"Every single goal felt better than the previous one and I was celebrating quite energetically. But I loved it.

"It is the first time I have beaten Spurs and it is just great.

"It just shows you what we can do when we are on the front foot and we can really go for it.

"Hopefully, we can learn from that and repeat it all over again."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4158023/Wojciech-Szczesny-says-Robin-van-Persie-is-staying-at-Arsenal.html

[IBK]

I'm probably just rose tinted after yesterday, but somehow, this RVP thing feels different to Cesc. Doesn't it? :unsure: :pray:

[Cripps_orig]

I'm probably just rose tinted after yesterday, but somehow, this RVP thing feels different to Cesc. Doesn't it? :unsure: :pray:Well it is different.

RVP isnt a **** for one thing and he isnt pining to go back to Holland.

[Coney]

I'm probably just rose tinted after yesterday, but somehow, this RVP thing feels different to Cesc. Doesn't it? :unsure: :pray:

Well, he doesn't bang on about his boyhood club, there is no boyhood club banging on about how they are going to buy him, and he is clearly a good captain and leader.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Well, he doesn't bang on about his boyhood club, there is no boyhood club banging on about how they are going to buy him, and he is clearly a good captain and leader.

he is at his boyhood club :)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well it is different.

RVP isnt a **** for one thing and he isnt pining to go back to Holland.

Cesc was pining for Holland?

Now he's in Spain?

We showed him.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm probably just rose tinted after yesterday, but somehow, this RVP thing feels different to Cesc. Doesn't it? :unsure: :pray:

i agree. RVP is a gooner, he seems proud to captain us. look at everything he does off the ptich, organises golf days etc etc. he really cares and you can see that from his celebrations etc that he wants us to win. i think he will stay at least one more season.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well, he doesn't bang on about his boyhood club, there is no boyhood club banging on about how they are going to buy him, and he is clearly a good captain and leader.

Yep, seems to love the club which is good to see, if he does move it won't be something he easily decides tbh. I think he'll stay tbh.

[The Verminator]

i agree. RVP is a gooner, he seems proud to captain us. look at everything he does off the ptich, organises golf days etc etc. he really cares and you can see that from his celebrations etc that he wants us to win. i think he will stay at least one more season.

And leave on a Bosman when his contract expires? :faint:

[LDG]

Every time anyone who isn’t an Arsenal fan mentions Robin van Persie they bring up two things:

1 – What an excellent player he is, scoring all those goals and what have you.

2 – How he’s certain to leave Arsenal in the summer because he’s an excellent player, scoring all those goals and what have you.

Last week the skipper reiterated his stance on his new contract. All along he’s said he’ll discuss it with the club in the summer, but despite telling us what we already knew, many journalists and news organisations used this as an excuse to bring up point 2. Again. Ad infinitum.

However, Robin has hinted that his preference would be to stay with a club he clearly has real affection for. Of course we have to accept the fact that lack of Champions League football next season might well influence his decision, but it’s not as cut and dried as everyone seems to think.

Speaking to the Dutch press about Arsenal, Robin said, “I have been there for eight years and I’m proud. At the end of the season I will it down with the trainer and the president. Then we make a cup of coffee all together.

“I am a true Gunner. I love this club and that’s no secret. We will soon talk about many things. I do quite often with the trainer anyway. Only later on is the president there.”

Let us hope that this is a cup of coffee of love, of commitment, of hope, of ambition and, most importantly, a cup of coffee so large that it takes him 4 years to drink it.

For now, let’s focus on winning games, Robin’s contract and coffee can wait until summer, and maybe a few people will be eating their words like Amaretto.



http://news.arseblog.com/2012/02/van-persie-i-am-a-true-gunner/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


RVP :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

He scores when he wants.

[LDG]

He scores when he waaaaaaaants...

[Coney]

And leave on a Bosman when his contract expires? :faint:

Well, I think that is a great bargaining chip for him and if reports are to be believed (yeah, OK, I know) he seems to want to pressure them into getting decent signings in. If that is the case then (i) that's great and (ii) if they do get some decent players to help, we might actually win enough and look like winning more enough for him to want to stay anyway. And if they don't bring in other players to help win things, he'd be justified in using his Bosman to go pretty well wherever he wanted.

[Syn]

I'm not saying he's not ambitious but he is fully in his comfort zone here. Some players couldn't handle the captaincy and couldn't perform carrying the expectations of being the main man, but he's thriving on it and really enjoying it. You can see that. I don't think you could say that for Cesc last year or even Henry in '07.

From his interviews, it seems to me that he also carries that crazy Dutch gene and is a bit eccentric. Not in the crazy Jens way but it's hard to explain. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Fuck it, he'll pen a 5 year contract at the end of the season, stay beyond that and retire here. Can't expect him to remain at this level for too much longer but he'll still be awesome considering his game isn't based on pace or power like Henry's or Drogba's.

[LDG]

I'm not saying he's not ambitious but he is fully in his comfort zone here. Some players couldn't handle the captaincy and couldn't perform carrying the expectations of being the main man, but he's thriving on it and really enjoying it. You can see that. I don't think you could say that for Cesc last year or even Henry in '07.

From his interviews, it seems to me that he also carries that crazy Dutch gene and is a bit eccentric. Not in the crazy Jens way but it's hard to explain. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Fuck it, he'll pen a 5 year contract at the end of the season, stay beyond that and retire here. Can't expect him to remain at this level for too much longer but he'll still be awesome considering his game isn't based on pace or power like Henry's or Drogba's.

:gp:

I'd bet my house on it that he watches DB10 videos in bed at night, and wants to emulate him.

What better way than to do it with the grace and class of Dennis.

[Marc Overmars]

Well, I think that is a great bargaining chip for him and if reports are to be believed (yeah, OK, I know) he seems to want to pressure them into getting decent signings in. If that is the case then (i) that's great and (ii) if they do get some decent players to help, we might actually win enough and look like winning more enough for him to want to stay anyway. And if they don't bring in other players to help win things, he'd be justified in using his Bosman to go pretty well wherever he wanted.

Yeah, I think he will want assurances from the club before signing, this is the most important contract of his career so you can't blame him for wanting to get the decision right.

If there is any indication he won't sign, we need to sell him, just like Nasri. We can't afford to lose our best player, but let alone on a bosman.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Depends on your definition of decent. I think by now we know that trying to pressure the management to buy doesn't work.

It didn't work with Henry, it didn't work with Fabregas and it won't work with Rvp. I'm specifically thinking of Trezeguet/Alonso and I probably remember some non-specific instances as well.

The wishes of your star player are all very well, but when weighed against the various circumstances, considerations and limitations surrounding our transfer dealings I doubt that it enters their minds too much.

[Syn]

If there is any indication he won't sign, we need to sell him, just like Nasri. We can't afford to lose our best player, but let alone on a bosman.

Offer enough money and he'll sign. But if he doesn't, I'm not so sure we should sell. We got £25m for Nasri purely because he was willing to stay in England. Nobody seriously expects Van Persie to stay in England if he decides to leave Arsenal - Barcelona, Real Madrid, Milan, Bayern whoever...they won't pay more than around £20m for a player who's 29 and in the last year of his contract. If that's the case, we might as well tell him to give us one more year and let him go on a free; not only to aid the development of the team and key young players like Wilshere and Oxlade who might be preparing to take over, but because Robin might single-handedly drag us into a CL spot - like this year - which makes up the difference of the £20m+ anyway.

From the fans' perspective, I guess we all want him to stay next year even if he doesn't sign a contract. Whether we lose him for £25m or £0, it only seems to go towards presenting some healthy profit figures. And we don't have to worry about selling any other big-money names because none would be left.

[Syn]

Depends on your definition of decent. I think by now we know that trying to pressure the management to buy doesn't work.

It didn't work with Henry, it didn't work with Fabregas and it won't work with Rvp. I'm specifically thinking of Trezeguet/Alonso and I probably remember some non-specific instances as well.

The wishes of your star player are all very well, but when weighed against the various circumstances, considerations and limitations surrounding our transfer dealings I doubt that it enters their minds too much.

I was hesitant to admit it at first - especially when we were on that run of 8 league wins out of 9 games when the whole team was putting in a good shift - but if we reach 4th this season, it will be purely because of Van Persie. I don't think, in our recent history, there has ever been a case of one player so transparently carrying the team. Cesc in 09/10, I guess you could make a case for, but I think he had a good team supporting him. Van Persie has pushed us up around 6-8 league positions IMO. Yes it's easy to measure a striker's contribution as opposed to a defender like Koscielny who has also been superb, but still. The club would have to listen to Van Persie's demands because the club is so reliant on him. Money's always the main factor though - add on Arshavin's wages (which should near enough double Robin's) and he'll be happy enough.

[PGFC]

Yup, He's going to get broken by some GHEL tomorrow night anyway, we should cash in today.

[Marc Overmars]

Offer enough money and he'll sign. But if he doesn't, I'm not so sure we should sell. We got £25m for Nasri purely because he was willing to stay in England. Nobody seriously expects Van Persie to stay in England if he decides to leave Arsenal - Barcelona, Real Madrid, Milan, Bayern whoever...they won't pay more than around £20m for a player who's 29 and in the last year of his contract. If that's the case, we might as well tell him to give us one more year and let him go on a free; not only to aid the development of the team and key young players like Wilshere and Oxlade who might be preparing to take over, but because Robin might single-handedly drag us into a CL spot - like this year - which makes up the difference of the £20m+ anyway.

From the fans' perspective, I guess we all want him to stay next year even if he doesn't sign a contract. Whether we lose him for £25m or £0, it only seems to go towards presenting some healthy profit figures. And we don't have to worry about selling any other big-money names because none would be left.

I'm not sure how healthy it would be for the team to play the season knowing their captain and talisman is leaving at the end. Also the impression I got from the clubs finances and hearing Gazidis talk, is that whilst money is available a lot of it is tied up in the week to week running of the club. We spend what we earn and I feel that 25m will be needed if the worst happens and he does leave. Worth baring in mind Arsenal need to sign a good few players regardless of whether RVP stays or not, and we can't ignore financial loss in the same way City can.

[Flavs]

he might well love the club but after Real do the league and european double this year and then approach him in the summer he will be off. I can just imagine his toothy little face as he says to Uncle Arsene "I will stay if you invest in the squad with real quality players" and then it gets to the 15th of August and the only new signings we have are Wilshere coming back from injury and the return of Denilson...

He probably wanted out in the summer past but we charmed him with the armband as we did Cesc the year before and when we got an Extra year out of Henry and Vieira before that.

Awesome players, good man but he wont win anything here.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I was hesitant to admit it at first - especially when we were on that run of 8 league wins out of 9 games when the whole team was putting in a good shift - but if we reach 4th this season, it will be purely because of Van Persie. I don't think, in our recent history, there has ever been a case of one player so transparently carrying the team. Cesc in 09/10, I guess you could make a case for, but I think he had a good team supporting him. Van Persie has pushed us up around 6-8 league positions IMO. Yes it's easy to measure a striker's contribution as opposed to a defender like Koscielny who has also been superb, but still. The club would have to listen to Van Persie's demands because the club is so reliant on him. Money's always the main factor though - add on Arshavin's wages (which should near enough double Robin's) and he'll be happy enough.There is no doubting his importance, but is he deemed so important that the club would do what it took to keep him? I think both scenarios represent problems to the club.

1) Double his wages.
For this to happen Arsene must swallow his egalitarian principles, but there is precendent. Henry was paid a massive wage in his last season.

Gazidis must then deal with the backlash within the rest of the squad. Those demanding concomitant wage increases need to placated or shipped out. It's hard to know exactly how big this backlash would be. Maybe the more inportant question is 'How much of a backlash are the board willing to risk?'.

Really, to rebalance the wage structure will require a huge clear out. Overpaid players won't accept pay cuts and are difficult to shift. Gazidis has spoken before about needing to 'trim the fat' so they do see the need to find more efficiency in the wage bill.

2) Invest in decent additions.
Again it's our wage structure which hampers us here as well as our willingness to fee large fees. I reckon without this stumbling bloack we would have Juan Mata right now.

As noted on Swiss Ramble, £50m pretty much buys you 1 £25m player on £100k a week. Beyond that we need to sell to buy. That's if Wenger would even be up for spending that. (Note, a £25m player is just my version of what I reckon a guy like Rvp would consider 'decent'.)

Thirdly, Rvp's version of decent might not necessarily match with Wenger's definition. Irrespective of how they've turned out, most of Wenger's signings have been, at first glance, underwhelming.
Yossi Fucking Benayoun?? Or words to that effect.

[Dog Toffee]

Theres no other single player who's anywhere near as important to us as RVP, so who else would moan that he's getting a huge pay increase (maybe double)?

[LDG]

There is no doubting his importance, but is he deemed so important that the club would do what it took to keep him? I think both scenarios represent problems to the club.

1) Double his wages.
For this to happen Arsene must swallow his egalitarian principles, but there is precendent. Henry was paid a massive wage in his last season.

Gazidis must then deal with the backlash within the rest of the squad. Those demanding concomitant wage increases need to placated or shipped out. It's hard to know exactly how big this backlash would be. Maybe the more inportant question is 'How much of a backlash are the board willing to risk?'.

Really, to rebalance the wage structure will require a huge clear out. Overpaid players won't accept pay cuts and are difficult to shift. Gazidis has spoken before about needing to 'trim the fat' so they do see the need to find more efficiency in the wage bill.

2) Invest in decent additions.
Again it's our wage structure which hampers us here as well as our willingness to fee large fees. I reckon without this stumbling bloack we would have Juan Mata right now.

As noted on Swiss Ramble, £50m pretty much buys you 1 £25m player on £100k a week. Beyond that we need to sell to buy. That's if Wenger would even be up for spending that. (Note, a £25m player is just my version of what I reckon a guy like Rvp would consider 'decent'.)

Thirdly, Rvp's version of decent might not necessarily match with Wenger's definition. Irrespective of how they've turned out, most of Wenger's signings have been, at first glance, underwhelming.
Yossi Fucking Benayoun?? Or words to that effect.

Nicely put.

The bit that interests me is the clear out bit.

Clearly we have a number of players on "too much". What we have to do is stop the cycle with the newly promoted squad players. The likes of Afobe, coq and the like, players who may well be the back up, should be on wages befitting them.

The big bucks can then be chucked at the players who merit it, and perhaps as tempters for players coming in.

Will be interesting to see who departs.

Everyone was talking about Tomas Rosicky being shipped out. Fuck me, if he plays like he did on Sunday every week, I'd rather keep him thanks!!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nicely put.

The bit that interests me is the clear out bit.

Clearly we have a number of players on "too much". What we have to do is stop the cycle with the newly promoted squad players. The likes of Afobe, coq and the like, players who may well be the back up, should be on wages befitting them.

The big bucks can then be chucked at the players who merit it, and perhaps as tempters for players coming in.

Will be interesting to see who departs.

Everyone was talking about Tomas Rosicky being shipped out. Fuck me, if he plays like he did on Sunday every week, I'd rather keep him thanks!!


Did he play that waht because he us trying to negoatiate a new contract and once he gets it will he go back and be frustating again. Half of me wants to Keep, him because of how he played the other half thinks we be better lettimg him go with the dead wood and bringing in a hazard or Gotze.

[Flavs]

I dont think people appreciate just how much dead wood we have and the cost of keeping them around for the rest of their contracts. Would be far better to just negotiate a pay of and get rid of the twats. Some will go on free transfers, the likes of Almunia and Vela will always have clubs willing to sign them its the ones with the attitude we may struggle to shift, like Bendtner and Denilson.