Gazidis is a waste of fucking space.

[Ralpheroo72]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23995291-arsenal-can-cope-without-champions-league-cash-says-ivan-gazidis.do

Kroenke's mouthpiece sums up our ambitions. I wonder why everyone was scared of Usmanov, as Kroenke doesnt really give a fuck about trophies, it's all about the $$$$.

[Özim]

Yup he is, he's done nothing since he arrived and now he's finally talking he's sounding exactly like Wenger and the board.

He's their marketing muppet.

[Fats]

Disgracefull outlook really. Understand the logic and all that but ffs.

Winning is no longer important.

Need to kick these idiots out of our club.

[Press Box Gooner]

Conveniently overlooks the fact that without Champions League involvement, class acts such as RVP are even more likely to jump ship and top class players won't want to join us.
Sums up the whole attitude at the club at the moment. Disgraceful.

[dazthegooner]

Bring back Dein he was an Arsenal man through and through though he was wrong when wanting to move to Wembley.

[Flavs]

as Kroenke doesnt really give a fuck about trophies, it's all about the $$$$.

That doesn't make any sense

[I_Killed_Kenny]

i agree flavs. i keep hearing how much money the board wanna make being greedy etc. but doesnt it make sense to say, winning trophies actually makes more money. and so keep the fat cats happier and the fans wouldnt care as long as we won the trophhies. so yes - to say they dont give a fuck about trophies doesnt cut it with me. unless they are fucking stupid.

[Syn]

It's not contradictory to say the board only care about money and not trophies. There is a cost of spending money. For a start, even if we had spent another £50m in this transfer window, there would still be only a small chance we could win the title. So it depends on how willing the board are to take the risk. They appear to be very cautious and don't want to go big.

Option 1: £30 with certainty
Option 2: £0 with 50% or £100 with 50%.

The board are going for Option 1.

That's one theory anyway, and it's what I think. For all this talk of the board backing Wenger - if they were really backing him, they'd fund some big money transfers.

[Flavs]

It's not contradictory to say the board only care about money and not trophies. There is a cost of spending money. For a start, even if we had spent another £50m in this transfer window, there would still be only a small chance we could win the title. So it depends on how willing the board are to take the risk. They appear to be very cautious and don't want to go big.

Option 1: £30 with certainty
Option 2: £0 with 50% or £100 with 50%.

The board are going for Option 1.

That's one theory anyway, and it's what I think. For all this talk of the board backing Wenger - if they were really backing him, they'd fund some big money transfers.

Oh fuck off Martin Lewis

[Syn]

:getcoat:

[Kano]

i agree flavs. i keep hearing how much money the board wanna make being greedy etc. but doesnt it make sense to say, winning trophies actually makes more money. and so keep the fat cats happier and the fans wouldnt care as long as we won the trophhies. so yes - to say they dont give a fuck about trophies doesnt cut it with me. unless they are fucking stupid.

exactly. a few seasons in midtable would stop the emirates cash cow in its tracks and defeats the object

[I_Killed_Kenny]

a lil injection of funds, even if this is a risk to them, could bring major benefits to the club in general. a trophy, winning cash, attracting better players which in turn could lead to more trophies and then more cash. everyones happy. i know its ifs n buts but surely its worth a punt to stick some top dolla in and go for it. its not like they havnet got enough already!

[Flavs]

Interesting that we are trying to renegotiate our shirt and stadium sponsorship deals though, more income for Kroenke...

[dazthegooner]

Didn't Chelski do the same thing and ended up buying out the deal before signing with Samsung?

[I_Killed_Kenny]

we are already operating with a positive balance with funds for transfers available. a great new deal bringing in more income should surely mean extra transfer funds to go on top of existing fiunds so meeting some high wage demands or inflated prices should be no problem. this wouldnt affect FFP. very crude guestimation i know

[Flavs]

Interesting that we are trying to renegotiate our shirt and stadium sponsorship deals though, more income for Kroenke...

Yup, as arseblog said this morning, Manyoo's training kit sponsorship deal is bigger than our first teams

[Flavs]

we are already operating with a positive balance with funds for transfers available. a great new deal bringing in more income should surely mean extra transfer funds to go on top of existing fiunds so meeting some high wage demands or inflated prices should be no problem. this wouldnt affect FFP. very crude guestimation i know
Or they will use it to pay of the mortgage early and then pocket the real money

[Kano]

good read

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.html

[Flavs]

good read

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.html

Fo'jesus that goes on mate. But yeah basically while servicing debt and ensuring we dont over stretch we have £100mil to spend on players

FFS!

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not contradictory to say the board only care about money and not trophies. There is a cost of spending money. For a start, even if we had spent another £50m in this transfer window, there would still be only a small chance we could win the title. So it depends on how willing the board are to take the risk. They appear to be very cautious and don't want to go big.

Option 1: £30 with certainty
Option 2: £0 with 50% or £100 with 50%.

The board are going for Option 1.

That's one theory anyway, and it's what I think. For all this talk of the board backing Wenger - if they were really backing him, they'd fund some big money transfers.

This is a convenient argument that the board can now play on, but in reality this situation has been brought about by their failure to invest over the last half decade. Now things have passed a critical point the bastards can say spending is not the answer. But spending WAS the answer five years ago, and then four years ago and so on. Greedy fucking bastards - is it possible for anyone to begin to comprehend how much I hate these cunts?

Gazidis should be sacked on the spot for that interview. What he's really saying is - fine, we can still make money with our business model even if a joke unfolds on the pitch. Where does this man fit into the football we used to know? He doesn't, he's totally incompatible. Of course he's perfect for the modern game, a game now completely overwhelmed by these cunts. Sad times for Arsenal, sad times for football.

[Grebbo]

I wonder why everyone was scared of Usmanov

Cos he sounds like Borat.

Our English owners raped this club - if they were foreign they'd have been hunted down by now. Instead they're wiping their arses with £50 notes.

[Power n Glory]

He's simply saying we're not depending on Champions League money to run the club. It's from a business model point of view and a not a question of our ambition on the pitch. If he left this story unchecked, I'm pretty sure we'd get stories us becoming the next Leed Utd and that we're in serious financial trouble.

The failure to invest in this squad is down to Wenger. We've just come through one of our busiest transfer periods we're we've finally invested in players but yet the Board are still getting the blame. We left our business late because Wenger was foolish enough to think that this squad could cope. I'm not even sure if it was Wenger's decision to buy these players because he was off at some manager conference on deadline day.

The failure to invest in this squad isn't anything new. Before the Invincible run and when Abramovich first arrived and spend millions on a new starting 11 in the summer, our main purchase was Lehman and everyone had written our season off. But Wenger stuck to his guns and said that something special was happening with the squad and the mood was right and that they are ready to win the title back. He says similar sorts of things now and his actions relate to his words. When he has that belief, he sticks to and feels no need to spend money not unless he sees a special young player that he feels will blossom. Like he did with Reyes and like he's done with The Ox this season.

The Board need to pressure Wenger, but I don't think they'll do it in public and they shouldn't either. That's one of the dumbest things they could ever do. It would really disrupt the team and open up a can of worms if they say something that raises eyebrows. Gazidis has said nothing wrong and he knows that this is a delicate moment and played his cards correctly. We want Champions League football but we won't go broke if it doesn't happen. How can we attract new players or a new manager if that sort of message was sent out?

[Fist of Lehmann]

good read

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.htmlAn excellent and comprehensive analysis.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fo'jesus that goes on mate. But yeah basically while servicing debt and ensuring we dont over stretch we have £100mil to spend on players FFS!

Now they have no excues in jan not to spend big tbh

[Fats]

Now they have no excues in jan not to spend big tbh

Yeah they do, Wenger.

He is so scared to gamble.

He has bought so poorly in the pass that spending would bring him pressure to win something. We dont want that kind of thinking here, winning!!! how dare you!!!!!!!!!!!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah they do, Wenger.

He is so scared to gamble.

He has bought so poorly in the pass that spending would bring him pressure to win something. We dont want that kind of thinking here, winning!!! how dare you!!!!!!!!!!!

like i said they have no excues anymore lol. Wenger muse see surley the sqaud needs additions and his captain and players need lifting.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's simply saying we're not depending on Champions League money to run the club. It's from a business model point of view and a not a question of our ambition on the pitch. If he left this story unchecked, I'm pretty sure we'd get stories us becoming the next Leed Utd and that we're in serious financial trouble.

The failure to invest in this squad is down to Wenger. We've just come through one of our busiest transfer periods we're we've finally invested in players but yet the Board are still getting the blame. We left our business late because Wenger was foolish enough to think that this squad could cope. I'm not even sure if it was Wenger's decision to buy these players because he was off at some manager conference on deadline day.

The failure to invest in this squad isn't anything new. Before the Invincible run and when Abramovich first arrived and spend millions on a new starting 11 in the summer, our main purchase was Lehman and everyone had written our season off. But Wenger stuck to his guns and said that something special was happening with the squad and the mood was right and that they are ready to win the title back. He says similar sorts of things now and his actions relate to his words. When he has that belief, he sticks to and feels no need to spend money not unless he sees a special young player that he feels will blossom. Like he did with Reyes and like he's done with The Ox this season.

The Board need to pressure Wenger, but I don't think they'll do it in public and they shouldn't either. That's one of the dumbest things they could ever do. It would really disrupt the team and open up a can of worms if they say something that raises eyebrows. Gazidis has said nothing wrong and he knows that this is a delicate moment and played his cards correctly. We want Champions League football but we won't go broke if it doesn't happen. How can we attract new players or a new manager if that sort of message was sent out?

not really the guy has even said we won't spend even if we need 2 i doubt wenger told him to say that. why did he not push wenger to do deals earier in the summer or get the ball rolling. the man does not care about our ambitions more about making money if thats his job fine but its not.

[selassie]

This is a convenient argument that the board can now play on, but in reality this situation has been brought about by their failure to invest over the last half decade. Now things have passed a critical point the bastards can say spending is not the answer. But spending WAS the answer five years ago, and then four years ago and so on. Greedy fucking bastards - is it possible for anyone to begin to comprehend how much I hate these cunts?

Gazidis should be sacked on the spot for that interview. What he's really saying is - fine, we can still make money with our business model even if a joke unfolds on the pitch. Where does this man fit into the football we used to know? He doesn't, he's totally incompatible. Of course he's perfect for the modern game, a game now completely overwhelmed by these cunts. Sad times for Arsenal, sad times for football.

:gp:

Yep

[Fist of Lehmann]

The failure to invest in this squad is down to Wenger. We've just come through one of our busiest transfer periods we're we've finally invested in players but yet the Board are still getting the blame.

from the SwissRamble
...Arsenal splashed out £53 million on new players. Of course, they still ended up with net sales proceeds of £18 million, as players leaving brought in £71 million. If decent offers had come in for the likes of Nicklas Bendtner, Manuel Almunia, Sébastien Squillaci and Denilson, this sum may well have been even higher.



We left our business late because Wenger was foolish enough to think that this squad could cope.

Substantiation?



I'm not even sure if it was Wenger's decision to buy these players because he was off at some manager conference on deadline day.

So Wenger has too much power, not enough pressure, the board allow him autonomy in football matters...but they decide to buy some random players while his back is turned?

[Niall_Quinn]

He's simply saying we're not depending on Champions League money to run the club. It's from a business model point of view and a not a question of our ambition on the pitch. If he left this story unchecked, I'm pretty sure we'd get stories us becoming the next Leed Utd and that we're in serious financial trouble.

The failure to invest in this squad is down to Wenger. We've just come through one of our busiest transfer periods we're we've finally invested in players but yet the Board are still getting the blame. We left our business late because Wenger was foolish enough to think that this squad could cope. I'm not even sure if it was Wenger's decision to buy these players because he was off at some manager conference on deadline day.

The failure to invest in this squad isn't anything new. Before the Invincible run and when Abramovich first arrived and spend millions on a new starting 11 in the summer, our main purchase was Lehman and everyone had written our season off. But Wenger stuck to his guns and said that something special was happening with the squad and the mood was right and that they are ready to win the title back. He says similar sorts of things now and his actions relate to his words. When he has that belief, he sticks to and feels no need to spend money not unless he sees a special young player that he feels will blossom. Like he did with Reyes and like he's done with The Ox this season.

The Board need to pressure Wenger, but I don't think they'll do it in public and they shouldn't either. That's one of the dumbest things they could ever do. It would really disrupt the team and open up a can of worms if they say something that raises eyebrows. Gazidis has said nothing wrong and he knows that this is a delicate moment and played his cards correctly. We want Champions League football but we won't go broke if it doesn't happen. How can we attract new players or a new manager if that sort of message was sent out?

Why not use the never-fail method to determine who is really behind our demise?

1. Who gains most?
2. Who loses most?

Answer 1: There can be no doubt about this - the shareholders have seen spectacular returns on their minimal investments and they have now cashed-in. Everything (absolutely everything) they have done has enhanced their personal positions. Coincidence? Luck? Anyone who objected has been ejected. More coincidence?

Answer 2: The fans.

Conclusion: Rich guys see opportunity to get rich by milking a loyal fan base. Rich guys execute an agenda hidden behind a cover story that the club will benefit in the long run. Rich guys destroy everything not connected to the deals in which they have a personal interest. Rich guys cash-in.

Even their bullshit about financial fair play is a crock of shit. Every other team who could has rushed to strengthen before these rules come into effect. They've done all their buying - what did we do? We sold. Now, even if a huge investor comes in, what can we do? It turns out we'll most likely be the biggest victims of financial fair play. A tell tale sign of hidden business agenda. Spin some shit to buy some time and hit the exit before reality sinks in.

The idea Wenger could have done any of this is ludicrous. The only way such a claim would make any sense is if we find out he's got a stake in the club. Even then, is he the same sort of low-life as the current board members? I don't think so.

The board, they're in charge, they've profited massively, they've jumped ship. How can they not be the #1 suspects by a mile? If they haven't engineered this and have been cajoled into disaster by Wenger (disaster in terms of damage to the club rather than their own bank accounts of course), they must be the most incompetent board in the history of football. The cover story they sell is they don't want to interfere with the manager - unless it comes to selling Nasri, for example, for which they all fly in and lay down the law. This story gives them the glorious option of being able to make Wenger a scapegoat, having him attract the heat while they scuttle to another rock.

What they've done is a textbook study of how to loot a football club. In Wenger they have found the perfect idealist. Our manager has huge flaws, we all know that, but I don't think he's a filty, stinking thief and general scum bag like our shareholders.

[Power n Glory]

from the SwissRamble
...Arsenal splashed out £53 million on new players. Of course, they still ended up with net sales proceeds of £18 million, as players leaving brought in £71 million. If decent offers had come in for the likes of Nicklas Bendtner, Manuel Almunia, Sébastien Squillaci and Denilson, this sum may well have been even higher.




Substantiation?




So Wenger has too much power, not enough pressure, the board allow him autonomy in football matters...but they decide to buy some random players while his back is turned?

After the Man Utd debacle, Gazidis must have had a word with him and told him the score. He had to concede because he could see for himself that the team were in no fit state to play. I don’t think they did it behind his back, but I don’t think after the result he went running to the board room and banged on Gazidis’ door demanding we sign these players.

It doesn’t matter that we made a profit as usual because that has always been the case even when we were at Highbury. That rep of earning money for the club is a rep that Wenger has proudly built and boasted about over the years.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

After the Man Utd debacle, Gazidis must have had a word with him and told him the score. He had to concede because he could see for himself that the team were in no fit state to play. I don’t think they did it behind his back, but I don’t think after the result he went running to the board room and banged on Gazidis’ door demanding we sign these players.
.

How do you know what happend after the manc game it seems your letting personal bias getting in thr way of your judgement. It was common sense to anyone after the Manc game we needed to spend. These were obvioulsy panic buys not 1st choice buys which the board and Ivan are happy with as they keep saying.

[Fist of Lehmann]

After the Man Utd debacle, Gazidis must have had a word with him and told him the score. He had to concede because he could see for himself that the team were in no fit state to play. I don’t think they did it behind his back, but I don’t think after the result he went running to the board room and banged on Gazidis’ door demanding we sign these players..Oh ok. Sure, you're welcome to speculate as much as you like. Wenger did say that he could have written a book about about this summer. I suspect the the truth here is likely to be stranger and more convoluted than your fiction, or mine.


It doesn’t matter that we made a profit as usual because that has always been the case even when we were at Highbury. That rep of earning money for the club is a rep that Wenger has proudly built and boasted about over the years.
Not the point I was making. You said that the board are still getting the blame despite the fact we spent money. Yet overall, we made money.

Besides, even if that were not the case, it wouldn't be conclusive in apportioning blame either way.

[Power n Glory]

Just read through that Swiss Ramble and I don't see how you guys can read that and ignore certain key points.

For starters, we made a profit, but Gazidis has said we purposely held some money back for January transfers and next summer. If Wenger comes out and hints that he won't be forced to spend when that time comes, whose at fault for that? This has been Wenger's way from the beginning and I would love to see a comparison or a detailed report on how we operated when Wenger first arrived and we were still at Highbury. This sort of detailed analysis has only started since we've moved to the Emirates. As the article points out though, it's very rare for a football club to make a profit. But anyway.... come January, if we look slow to do business again, we'll be back here again talking about the Board being reluctant release funds even though Wenger has always operated on a shoestring budget.

Last season, Wenger said failing to qualify for the Champions League is no disaster. Gazidis comes out and says the same thing even though we'd lose money, yet I'm still hearing that the Board are trying to fatten their pockets before jumping ship. If that were the case, shouldn't they be putting serious pressure on Wenger to qualify and actually win the thing? Wouldn't that make financial sense instead of allowing us to drop out of the top four which actually harms our stance when renegotiating our sponsorship deals?

The article pinpoints our commercial revenue deals as a reason why we're lagging behind the competition. Man U's income trumps ours and even Spurs have a better shirt sponsorship deal than us. The idiots on the Board that signed those early bad deals get the blame for that but we needed money for the stadium....fair enough. How are we going to cope....the cynics will say we're now a selling club and that's part of the strategy. Maybe. But we could have held out for more money when Barca came in for Cesc and Wenger in the end told the Board to sell him on the cheap. Now, if these guys were that greedy and cut throat, they'd have told Wenger to stay out of it and that we need to raise more money to fatten the pockets. They didn't happen and they allowed Cesc to go on the cheap. Thay conceded on that issue. We had a similar situation with Henry when we could have sold him for more but gave him a bumper pay rise only to sell him on the cheap a year later. The image doesn't add up.

As for the ticket price hike... check what the article says on Wenger's stance on that issue.


Arsène Wenger made the reasonable point that the 6.5% price rise was necessary in order “to increase our income to fight with the other clubs”, but there would have been other ways of making a similar sum.

Why is he trying to dangle a carrot in front of our faces with that one? It was the same with his argument about moving to a new stadium, he toyed with the idea of us being able to compete with Madrid and Man U, but now the tunes sounding different and he's trying a new dance. You look back on the things Wenger sayx and he's right in there when it comes to misleading the fans. If the Board are taking the piss, this guy is right there in on the joke.

The article rightly goes on to say that we didn't have to raise ticket prices and success on the pitch would actually generate more income, but we'll leave that alone for the minute. Now look at our wage bill.


Given the magnitude of Arsenal’s wage bill, it seems strange that they do not pay top dollar to their star players, but this is due to a couple of factors. First of all, Arsenal have a very large squad with a vast number of “young professionals”, but more importantly they operate an equitable wage structure, which means that the best players are not particularly well remunerated (by modern standards), while fringe players like Abou Diaby, Thomas Rosicky and Marouane Chamakh are handsomely rewarded for their efforts. Not only does this reduce the money available to attract world class players, but it also makes it difficult to move on under-performers, hence loans for Bendtner and Denilson.

This approach needs a root and branch review, as it cannot be adjusted for an individual player or others will soon demand equivalent pay rises. This is a concern with some key players entering the final year of their contracts like Robin Van Persie, Thomas Vermaelen and Theo Walcott. Van Persie has already complained that Arsenal will not pay “enormous amounts of money”, hinting that this encourages a player’s decision to “go elsewhere.” This issue was tacitly confirmed by Wenger, “I cannot today say that if we go to the maximum we are sure to sign a player.”

Why do we have such a huge squad that pays so much to young players and fringe players? We just signed Ryo, Campbell, Jenkinson and Oxo and we keep acquiring youth players even though they may end up like Denilson, JET, Vela, etc. Surely this has to be addressed and it's something Wenger can easily sort out. This youth project is his baby and he loves developing young players but he won't put his obsession in check and it's hurting us. Every year we signed young players and end up moving them on (or loaning them out) because they're not good enough.

Also, check Wenger's strategic RVP comments? Why do it and why is he prepared to part ways with players like that yet unwilling to curb this bloody youth project? Given the amount we're spending, shouldn't this way be cheaper? But it's turning out to be damn expensive and I'll blame the Board for not cuffing Wenger round the head and telling him to cut out this nonsense. Someone should be looking at those numbers, then the quality on the pitch and scratching their head. You can't justify those numbers and whoever is signing those checks must be getting the seal of approval from someone in the coaching staff. An accountant shouldn't be able to put a value on a football player, that's down to Wenger and his coaching team. He saying certain players are good enough and worthy of new contracts, that's his call.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. This doesn't add up. If we're a club looking to fatten the pockets, then none of this makes sense. If you still hold that view, then you can't ignore the fact that Wenger is in on it. He happily shifts the attention away from us and on to other clubs like City and Chelsea and at the same time promotes what the club is doing and talks about the unfairness of financial doping.

I don't think the Board is out to pull a fast one. They're too dumb for that. But there is a lack of direction and I hope new faces like Gazidis and Stan start to see the light. This idea of Wenger being the Warren Buffett of football management is disturbing. That sort of accolade just shows how much influence Wenger has on this club. It's not 100% his fault, but they've given him too much power and trying to wrestle that back is a tall order.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Just read through that Swiss Ramble and I don't see how you guys can read that and ignore certain key points.

For starters, we made a profit, but Gazidis has said we purposely held some money back for January transfers and next summer.Okay. Why do that?

Why defer money to future transfer windows when it was apparent we needed strengthening this June?
Why split the expenditure into many lower value purchases rather than fewer high value ones?



Last season, Wenger said failing to qualify for the Champions League is no disaster. Gazidis comes out and says the same thing even though we'd lose money, yet I'm still hearing that the Board are trying to fatten their pockets before jumping ship. If that were the case, shouldn't they be putting serious pressure on Wenger to qualify and actually win the thing? Wouldn't that make financial sense instead of allowing us to drop out of the top four which actually harms our stance when renegotiating our sponsorship deals?

But then again:

The Board need to pressure Wenger, but I don't think they'll do it in public and they shouldn't either. That's one of the dumbest things they could ever do.

So if I understand this correctly, if the Board were trying to fatten their own pockets that would lead them to do 'one of the dumbest things they could ever do' - publically apply pressure instead of alleviating it by playing down the importance of the CL.



The article pinpoints...
Oh FFS PnG I haven't got all night.

Let's just assume I answered all of the rest of your post and made many excellent points.

[Kano]

Okay. Why do that?

Why defer money to future transfer windows when it was apparent we needed strengthening this June?
Why split the expenditure into many lower value purchases rather than fewer high value ones?




But then again:


So if I understand this correctly, if the Board were trying to fatten their own pockets that would lead them to do 'one of the dumbest things they could ever do' - publically apply pressure instead of alleviating it by playing down the importance of the CL.



Oh FFS PnG I haven't got all night.

Let's just assume I answered all of the rest of your post and made many excellent points.
when will you get with the programme ffs?

wenger holds all the cards and the bar to which the board have to jump over, except when they decide that they are the ones in control of everything and effectively ruining the club.

jeeeesus, you ask too many questions

[Power n Glory]

Okay. Why do that?

Why defer money to future transfer windows when it was apparent we needed strengthening this June?
Why split the expenditure into many lower value purchases rather than fewer high value ones?




But then again:


So if I understand this correctly, if the Board were trying to fatten their own pockets that would lead them to do 'one of the dumbest things they could ever do' - publically apply pressure instead of alleviating it by playing down the importance of the CL.



Oh FFS PnG I haven't got all night.

Let's just assume I answered all of the rest of your post and made many excellent points.

Nah, let's a assume your a lazy git. :lol:

Telling the world that we need to qualify for the Champions League in order to stay afloat is dumb. It weakens our position as a club and if true, it's a fact that Wenger already knows, so making that news public won't make a blind bit of difference to his performance as a manager.

As for holding back funds...I don't know. Maybe because we did our business late and couldn't identify our targets quick enough.

@Terry

Not saying Wenger holds all the cards. Just saying you have to look at Wenger's role in this if you're saying the Board are fleecing the fans. He has the power to influence the wage bill with the type of players he signs, but he chooses not to. Our squad doesn't have to be that big and we don't have to have so many young players in the team. That is something he can manage and control. That's his area.

Second, he doesn't have to dangle the carrott with talk of the ticket price increase enabling us to compete with clubs like Chelsea and City. That's a lie. Better sponsorship deals would do that, but he has no problem directing the attention away from his and the Boards incompetence and placing the blame on big spending clubs like City and Chelsea. The financial dopers.

If we're going to look into this stuff, be fair and look at Wenger's role in all this. Don't paint this picture of a guy sitting back while greedy money men take us over. He's right in there playing his part and helping to mislead fans. He doesn't have to do that.

Also, Terry....why do you think this Billy guy compares Wenger to Warren Buffett?

[Fats]

I have to say with his poor understanding of what is neccessary to succeed at a club of our stature, he simply has to be replaced.

This attitude at the club will see us struggle in the coming seasons.

If they simply make excuses about the lack of a winning mentality then I personally have to think whether I can invest my time and effort.

Players like Van Persie will not stay at a club that is not in the Champions League. Its that simple.

We will not be able to attract the players that will be able to compete to enable us to get there.

A business model that ensures we will be in a financial good place if we do not qualify for the Champions League is missing the point massively. Bullshit is rife right now from the top to the bottom. We have players that constantly spout bullshit about being stronger every game and that mistakes will be rectified. The manager is constantly telling the media that as a club we cannot compete financially. Gazidis has not got a clue in my opinion. He has in no way helped the club with any decisions other than to ensure we become mediocre.

As a club we are slipping down the league and this will continue without doubt.

All I hear is lie after lie after lie from these idiots in charge of the club.

I have little faith left anymore. If I could turn my back on the club because of how it treats its fans(which is disgraceful by the way)I would.

I now begrudge buying shirts for my sons, and my missus had to convince me to buy a new kit for the 6 year old, I really didnt want to.

Sick to the pit of my stomach with the fools that run the club. We have become also rans that can no longer compete.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I do not profess to knowing the ins and outs of the current political/financial intrigues of the club I support but I do find some of the comments made by Gazidis to by irking to say the least.
He says the a failure to qualify foe the CL is not the end of the world and that we will still be able to compete!

Well he is right on one point, yes the earth will still spin in such an event but the other point is interesting, well at least the use of the word 'STILL' is, he means that he believes that we are competing atm, I do not call what I see our team plsying 'competing'. . . .

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he meant in the transfer market as I seem to recall him saying at the beginning of the summer that areas had been identidied and strengthened accordingly. . . .but now we hear that money has been kept back for January or next year! . . . .why?

So that we can buy the same players we were after before for 50p lesss. . , FFS. . .the season does not start in January for most it is actually over by then! which we are in danger of finding out soon enough!
keepibg the money back, only makes sense if we are thinkibg of givibg a starting kit to a new manager. . .but that doesnt look to be the case
Was the business we ended up doing in the last few days of the transfer window a reflection of our ambition , if so, he sums up the meaning behind Gazidis statements that we should not pretend to be anything more than a 'bit part' running by a group that puts football second.

Everytime I write something negative I pray that I am proved wrong. . .but changes are the only way I can see working both on and off the pitch

[Fats]

Everytime I write something negative I pray that I am proved wrong. . .but changes are the only way I can see working both on and off the pitch[/QUOTE]

Everyone feels the same

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Everytime I write something negative I pray that I am proved wrong. . .but changes are the only way I can see working both on and off the pitch

Everyone feels the same[/QUOTE]

. . .Id say almost everyone!

[Grebbo]

Gaz is getting paid £1million a year - he's not going to rock the boat.

[fakeyank]

Just read through that Swiss Ramble and I don't see how you guys can read that and ignore certain key points.

For starters, we made a profit, but Gazidis has said we purposely held some money back for January transfers and next summer. If Wenger comes out and hints that he won't be forced to spend when that time comes, whose at fault for that? This has been Wenger's way from the beginning and I would love to see a comparison or a detailed report on how we operated when Wenger first arrived and we were still at Highbury. This sort of detailed analysis has only started since we've moved to the Emirates. As the article points out though, it's very rare for a football club to make a profit. But anyway.... come January, if we look slow to do business again, we'll be back here again talking about the Board being reluctant release funds even though Wenger has always operated on a shoestring budget.

Last season, Wenger said failing to qualify for the Champions League is no disaster. Gazidis comes out and says the same thing even though we'd lose money, yet I'm still hearing that the Board are trying to fatten their pockets before jumping ship. If that were the case, shouldn't they be putting serious pressure on Wenger to qualify and actually win the thing? Wouldn't that make financial sense instead of allowing us to drop out of the top four which actually harms our stance when renegotiating our sponsorship deals?

The article pinpoints our commercial revenue deals as a reason why we're lagging behind the competition. Man U's income trumps ours and even Spurs have a better shirt sponsorship deal than us. The idiots on the Board that signed those early bad deals get the blame for that but we needed money for the stadium....fair enough. How are we going to cope....the cynics will say we're now a selling club and that's part of the strategy. Maybe. But we could have held out for more money when Barca came in for Cesc and Wenger in the end told the Board to sell him on the cheap. Now, if these guys were that greedy and cut throat, they'd have told Wenger to stay out of it and that we need to raise more money to fatten the pockets. They didn't happen and they allowed Cesc to go on the cheap. Thay conceded on that issue. We had a similar situation with Henry when we could have sold him for more but gave him a bumper pay rise only to sell him on the cheap a year later. The image doesn't add up.

As for the ticket price hike... check what the article says on Wenger's stance on that issue.


Why is he trying to dangle a carrot in front of our faces with that one? It was the same with his argument about moving to a new stadium, he toyed with the idea of us being able to compete with Madrid and Man U, but now the tunes sounding different and he's trying a new dance. You look back on the things Wenger sayx and he's right in there when it comes to misleading the fans. If the Board are taking the piss, this guy is right there in on the joke.

The article rightly goes on to say that we didn't have to raise ticket prices and success on the pitch would actually generate more income, but we'll leave that alone for the minute. Now look at our wage bill.



Why do we have such a huge squad that pays so much to young players and fringe players? We just signed Ryo, Campbell, Jenkinson and Oxo and we keep acquiring youth players even though they may end up like Denilson, JET, Vela, etc. Surely this has to be addressed and it's something Wenger can easily sort out. This youth project is his baby and he loves developing young players but he won't put his obsession in check and it's hurting us. Every year we signed young players and end up moving them on (or loaning them out) because they're not good enough.

Also, check Wenger's strategic RVP comments? Why do it and why is he prepared to part ways with players like that yet unwilling to curb this bloody youth project? Given the amount we're spending, shouldn't this way be cheaper? But it's turning out to be damn expensive and I'll blame the Board for not cuffing Wenger round the head and telling him to cut out this nonsense. Someone should be looking at those numbers, then the quality on the pitch and scratching their head. You can't justify those numbers and whoever is signing those checks must be getting the seal of approval from someone in the coaching staff. An accountant shouldn't be able to put a value on a football player, that's down to Wenger and his coaching team. He saying certain players are good enough and worthy of new contracts, that's his call.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. This doesn't add up. If we're a club looking to fatten the pockets, then none of this makes sense. If you still hold that view, then you can't ignore the fact that Wenger is in on it. He happily shifts the attention away from us and on to other clubs like City and Chelsea and at the same time promotes what the club is doing and talks about the unfairness of financial doping.

I don't think the Board is out to pull a fast one. They're too dumb for that. But there is a lack of direction and I hope new faces like Gazidis and Stan start to see the light. This idea of Wenger being the Warren Buffett of football management is disturbing. That sort of accolade just shows how much influence Wenger has on this club. It's not 100% his fault, but they've given him too much power and trying to wrestle that back is a tall order.

:gp:

Great fucking post!

Way too much is made of the board being a cunt. While I do think the board is to blame for not firing Wenger, the amount of money spent and tactics on the field is 100% Wenger's fault. I dont know how many on here has been on the Emirates stadium tour but if you have been, you will know during the tour that the design of the dressing rooms (home and away), the state of the art spa in the home dressing room, the size of the grass and the amount of water added to the grass are all according to one man- Arsene Wenger! When a football manager has input into how the dressing room is designed, I just do not see how any blame for our failure can be taken away from him. He is 100% to blame..

Oh and a fun fact, anyone who plays Fifa12 on PS3 will know that when you play with Arsenal enough, one of the commentators mentions how "Arsenal had an amazing pitch in highbury and that is one of the things they have moved to the Emirates stadium and credit needs to go to Arsene Wenger for that"... FFS, even in a football game, he is given credit for non-football shit. Since all things good that happened to Arsenal till 2005 was down to Arsene Wenger then all things bad (to our football) is all down to Arsene Wenger. No point hiding behind the board and blaming them for how terrible our football is.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

The words I read between the lines is that the blame is collective more than individual in the way the club is being run
The state of things on the pitch is down to Wenger but lets not forget the players. . . .sure some should not even be there but some of the things I have seen us fo, schoolboys could do better so they too shoulder a huge amount of blame and that includes the two littke birds that flew the nest

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Great fucking post!

Way too much is made of the board being a cunt. While I do think the board is to blame for not firing Wenger, the amount of money spent and tactics on the field is 100% Wenger's fault. I dont know how many on here has been on the Emirates stadium tour but if you have been, you will know during the tour that the design of the dressing rooms (home and away), the state of the art spa in the home dressing room, the size of the grass and the amount of water added to the grass are all according to one man- Arsene Wenger! When a football manager has input into how the dressing room is designed, I just do not see how any blame for our failure can be taken away from him. He is 100% to blame..

Oh and a fun fact, anyone who plays Fifa12 on PS3 will know that when you play with Arsenal enough, one of the commentators mentions how "Arsenal had an amazing pitch in highbury and that is one of the things they have moved to the Emirates stadium and credit needs to go to Arsene Wenger for that"... FFS, even in a football game, he is given credit for non-football shit. Since all things good that happened to Arsenal till 2005 was down to Arsene Wenger then all things bad (to our football) is all down to Arsene Wenger. No point hiding behind the board and blaming them for how terrible our football is.

Did you read the Swiss Ramble article? If you didn't manage to read between those thick, wide and brightly coloured lines then try reading it again. But this time fit the pieces together on the financial side, it's not hard to see a clear path and a clear pattern. It's also not at all hard to see how the board managed to fund and secure its property operation that has ultimately yielded them a stupid amount of cash. For as long as the majority of fans are focused on the wrong problems, nothing can ever change at the club. No point getting rid of a fox in the hen house if the fucking farmer puts another one in the next day either.

[fakeyank]

Did you read the Swiss Ramble article? If you didn't manage to read between those thick, wide and brightly coloured lines then try reading it again. But this time fit the pieces together on the financial side, it's not hard to see a clear path and a clear pattern. It's also not at all hard to see how the board managed to fund and secure its property operation that has ultimately yielded them a stupid amount of cash. For as long as the majority of fans are focused on the wrong problems, nothing can ever change at the club. No point getting rid of a fox in the hen house if the fucking farmer puts another one in the next day either.

I'll reply with just what we have as our starting XI..

Ssxsad- One of the top form goal keepers of the PL right now

Sagna- One of the best RB's in the PL

Per- Solid no nonsense defender

Kos- piece of shit

Gibbs- avg LB

Song- very good CDM. may be positionally suspect but still very solid

Arteta- proven to be a very good CM. Wont set the world on fire but still good

Ramsey- has been great for a below avg Wales team but absolute garbage for us

RVP- one of the best strikers in the PL

Walcott- promising player but completely wasted on the wings

Gervinho- looks to be a good signing

Why am I bring these players up when we are talking about the board? That is because with that starting XI and with TV5, JW, OAC, Flappy, Santos, Ping pong in the squad, we are more than capable of being in the top 5 of the PL. Yes, the board wants profits but so does the Glazers but SAF (like AW) has enough pull to say who they want and dont really need to say why.. If AW can lower Cesc's price by 10 million quid for these 'money grabbing' board members, I am sure he can coax them to spend a 6 million on Scott Parker or sign a defensive coach.

I am sure the board is not without its faults but the reason for us being a complete pile of shit on the field is coz of AW. Board do not do the tactics or play players in their best positions. To put it simply, I'll give the board more time than AW.. I judge AFC as a football club and AW is responsible for that aspect (and more)... I am confident if AW is sacked and replaced even with a donkey, we will get better on the football field.

[selassie]

Just read through that Swiss Ramble and I don't see how you guys can read that and ignore certain key points.

For starters, we made a profit, but Gazidis has said we purposely held some money back for January transfers and next summer. If Wenger comes out and hints that he won't be forced to spend when that time comes, whose at fault for that? This has been Wenger's way from the beginning and I would love to see a comparison or a detailed report on how we operated when Wenger first arrived and we were still at Highbury. This sort of detailed analysis has only started since we've moved to the Emirates. As the article points out though, it's very rare for a football club to make a profit. But anyway.... come January, if we look slow to do business again, we'll be back here again talking about the Board being reluctant release funds even though Wenger has always operated on a shoestring budget.

Last season, Wenger said failing to qualify for the Champions League is no disaster. Gazidis comes out and says the same thing even though we'd lose money, yet I'm still hearing that the Board are trying to fatten their pockets before jumping ship. If that were the case, shouldn't they be putting serious pressure on Wenger to qualify and actually win the thing? Wouldn't that make financial sense instead of allowing us to drop out of the top four which actually harms our stance when renegotiating our sponsorship deals?

The article pinpoints our commercial revenue deals as a reason why we're lagging behind the competition. Man U's income trumps ours and even Spurs have a better shirt sponsorship deal than us. The idiots on the Board that signed those early bad deals get the blame for that but we needed money for the stadium....fair enough. How are we going to cope....the cynics will say we're now a selling club and that's part of the strategy. Maybe. But we could have held out for more money when Barca came in for Cesc and Wenger in the end told the Board to sell him on the cheap. Now, if these guys were that greedy and cut throat, they'd have told Wenger to stay out of it and that we need to raise more money to fatten the pockets. They didn't happen and they allowed Cesc to go on the cheap. Thay conceded on that issue. We had a similar situation with Henry when we could have sold him for more but gave him a bumper pay rise only to sell him on the cheap a year later. The image doesn't add up.

As for the ticket price hike... check what the article says on Wenger's stance on that issue.


Why is he trying to dangle a carrot in front of our faces with that one? It was the same with his argument about moving to a new stadium, he toyed with the idea of us being able to compete with Madrid and Man U, but now the tunes sounding different and he's trying a new dance. You look back on the things Wenger sayx and he's right in there when it comes to misleading the fans. If the Board are taking the piss, this guy is right there in on the joke.

The article rightly goes on to say that we didn't have to raise ticket prices and success on the pitch would actually generate more income, but we'll leave that alone for the minute. Now look at our wage bill.



Why do we have such a huge squad that pays so much to young players and fringe players? We just signed Ryo, Campbell, Jenkinson and Oxo and we keep acquiring youth players even though they may end up like Denilson, JET, Vela, etc. Surely this has to be addressed and it's something Wenger can easily sort out. This youth project is his baby and he loves developing young players but he won't put his obsession in check and it's hurting us. Every year we signed young players and end up moving them on (or loaning them out) because they're not good enough.

Also, check Wenger's strategic RVP comments? Why do it and why is he prepared to part ways with players like that yet unwilling to curb this bloody youth project? Given the amount we're spending, shouldn't this way be cheaper? But it's turning out to be damn expensive and I'll blame the Board for not cuffing Wenger round the head and telling him to cut out this nonsense. Someone should be looking at those numbers, then the quality on the pitch and scratching their head. You can't justify those numbers and whoever is signing those checks must be getting the seal of approval from someone in the coaching staff. An accountant shouldn't be able to put a value on a football player, that's down to Wenger and his coaching team. He saying certain players are good enough and worthy of new contracts, that's his call.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. This doesn't add up. If we're a club looking to fatten the pockets, then none of this makes sense. If you still hold that view, then you can't ignore the fact that Wenger is in on it. He happily shifts the attention away from us and on to other clubs like City and Chelsea and at the same time promotes what the club is doing and talks about the unfairness of financial doping.

I don't think the Board is out to pull a fast one. They're too dumb for that. But there is a lack of direction and I hope new faces like Gazidis and Stan start to see the light. This idea of Wenger being the Warren Buffett of football management is disturbing. That sort of accolade just shows how much influence Wenger has on this club. It's not 100% his fault, but they've given him too much power and trying to wrestle that back is a tall order.

:gp: :gp: :gp:

Superb post.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's not 100% his fault, but they've given him too much power and trying to wrestle that back is a tall order.

This don't make sense at all. So the board give Wenger too much power and its not their fault he is like this. How the hell can it ba a tall order to get poer back when they can easily sack him, unless he has some clause in his contract that will make it up to them.

Not sure why your trying to make the board the good guys when they dont give a shit about the fans either and our chairman told us all to shut up and be happy or whatever he said.

I find it weird that you say and employer is powerless to stop their employee, when they easily can.

[Power n Glory]

This don't make sense at all. So the board give Wenger too much power and its not their fault he is like this. How the hell can it ba a tall order to get poer back when they can easily sack him, unless he has some clause in his contract that will make it up to them.

Not sure why your trying to make the board the good guys when they dont give a shit about the fans either and our chairman told us all to shut up and be happy or whatever he said.

I find it weird that you say and employer is powerless to stop their employee, when they easily can.

If I said it was 100% Wenger's fault, then I could see where you coming from, but I haven't said. It's not 100% Wenger's fault.

You've come back with a very simplistic argument and I'm not here trying to paint a picture of the Board being 'good guys'. You're wide off the mark and missed a lot of points I've made. But what really annoys me is the way you've comeback with the typical 'board doesn't give a shit about the fans' response while ignoring Wenger's comments and behaviour in the process. I mentioned them already but I might as well list them again and add a couple more points, but you're not getting it. If the Board are out to fleece the fans, Wenger is an accomplice.

Who championed the idea of the stadium brining in more transfer fund resources and us being able to compete with the likes of Real Madrid and Man U on the transfer market? I don't recall PHW or many Board members coming out to the press to stir up our hopes. I remember Wenger promoting that idea. He never said anything about the wage structure still being intact and our wage bill ballooning so just to accommodate and oversized average squad. He specifically spoke about competing on the transfer market and I don't want to here excuses about Chelsea or City because we're spending around the same amount on wages and transfer fees as we did at Highbury but the squad size and the average amount we're paying out has gone up.

The ticket price hike. Why has Wenger come out and said the increase would help us compete with the bigger clubs? Why dangle that carrot and suggest to the fans that it would help us on the pitch? We know that's BS but he put it out there anyway. If you think the Board don't care about the fans are taken us for a ride, then you've got to look at this comment with a raised eyebrow. He's helping them pull off the con with these type of comments.

Insults...didn't Wenger say 'a sign of intelligence is patients'? That was an insult directed at fans and you've ignored it. It comes right off the back of PHW calling fans idiots as well, just when tensions between the Board and fans were high. You ignored that point and a lot of people forget that comment. Wenger has no problem lying to fans, just like during the Nasri and Cesc saga when he said he expected no one to leave the club and the next day we here that Cesc is off. He did it with a smirk on his face as well, totally taking the piss and ignoring how much of a sensitive issue this was with the fans. He's always coy with his transfer dealings and fans brush it off as if he's playing his cards close to his chest and smokescreens, when in fact, he's just staying coy so when he doesn't sign anyone he can say we weren't able to find any 'super quality' players. Speaking of 'super quality' he's the one that sets the standard and gets our hopes up when talking of signing a striker or English centre back, then double backs on his words and gets all tetchy when people question him about it.

I could go on. See the bigger picture here. PHW and co hardly speak to the fans and Wenger has done a lot of talking . As for wrestling power back....Gazidis and Stan are part of a new regime. They respect Wenger but I guess they have a few ideas of their own like the Asia tour. This is a long term plan and they can't just sack him without thinking of the consequences. It's not that simple. The club now has Wenger's DNA all over it. Bringing in someone new means they'd have to be prepared to rip up the rule book and there would need to be a real strategy on how we'd cope without Wenger. What we're seeing here has taken years of planning. Board members can't make hasty decisions and sacking Wenger is the last resort for them. As for Gazidis, since he;s been here he's made sure he's put himself out there to the fans to answer questions. I'll give him credit for that. Nobody else does that at Arsenal.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If I said it was 100% Wenger's fault, then I could see where you coming from, but I haven't said. It's not 100% Wenger's fault.

You've come back with a very simplistic argument and I'm not here trying to paint a picture of the Board being 'good guys'. You're wide off the mark and missed a lot of points I've made. But what really annoys me is the way you've comeback with the typical 'board doesn't give a shit about the fans' response while ignoring Wenger's comments and behaviour in the process. I mentioned them already but I might as well list them again and add a couple more points, but you're not getting it. If the Board are out to fleece the fans, Wenger is an accomplice.

Who championed the idea of the stadium brining in more transfer fund resources and us being able to compete with the likes of Real Madrid and Man U on the transfer market? I don't recall PHW or many Board members coming out to the press to stir up our hopes. I remember Wenger promoting that idea. He never said anything about the wage structure still being intact and our wage bill ballooning so just to accommodate and oversized average squad. He specifically spoke about competing on the transfer market and I don't want to here excuses about Chelsea or City because we're spending around the same amount on wages and transfer fees as we did at Highbury but the squad size and the average amount we're paying out has gone up.

The ticket price hike. Why has Wenger come out and said the increase would help us compete with the bigger clubs? Why dangle that carrot and suggest to the fans that it would help us on the pitch? We know that's BS but he put it out there anyway. If you think the Board don't care about the fans are taken us for a ride, then you've got to look at this comment with a raised eyebrow. He's helping them pull off the con with these type of comments.

Insults...didn't Wenger say 'a sign of intelligence is patients'? That was an insult directed at fans and you've ignored it. It comes right off the back of PHW calling fans idiots as well, just when tensions between the Board and fans were high. You ignored that point and a lot of people forget that comment. Wenger has no problem lying to fans, just like during the Nasri and Cesc saga when he said he expected no one to leave the club and the next day we here that Cesc is off. He did it with a smirk on his face as well, totally taking the piss and ignoring how much of a sensitive issue this was with the fans. He's always coy with his transfer dealings and fans brush it off as if he's playing his cards close to his chest and smokescreens, when in fact, he's just staying coy so when he doesn't sign anyone he can say we weren't able to find any 'super quality' players. Speaking of 'super quality' he's the one that sets the standard and gets our hopes up when talking of signing a striker or English centre back, then double backs on his words and gets all tetchy when people question him about it.

I could go on. See the bigger picture here. PHW and co hardly speak to the fans and Wenger has done a lot of talking . As for wrestling power back....Gazidis and Stan are part of a new regime. They respect Wenger but I guess they have a few ideas of their own like the Asia tour. This is a long term plan and they can't just sack him without thinking of the consequences. It's not that simple. The club now has Wenger's DNA all over it. Bringing in someone new means they'd have to be prepared to rip up the rule book and there would need to be a real strategy on how we'd cope without Wenger. What we're seeing here has taken years of planning. Board members can't make hasty decisions and sacking Wenger is the last resort for them. As for Gazidis, since he;s been here he's made sure he's put himself out there to the fans to answer questions. I'll give him credit for that. Nobody else does that at Arsenal.

I see where your coming from PnG and agree with most but i don't see Wenger having more power then the board, well no more than any other manager in the league tbh.

I agree he has too much power then he should which is wrong, but Stan shoud be able to take that back if he has his own vision which only time will tell.

[Cripps_orig]

I dont know what he does for the club but i have no doubt hes the worst in the world at whatever he does

Much like Wenger :good:

Thats a bad combo

[Super Ghel]

I am sure the board is not without its faults but the reason for us being a complete pile of shit on the field is coz of AW. Board do not do the tactics or play players in their best positions. To put it simply, I'll give the board more time than AW.. I judge AFC as a football club and AW is responsible for that aspect (and more)... I am confident if AW is sacked and replaced even with a donkey, we will get better on the football field.

Therein lies the baffling mong standard of evaluation as far as logical processes goes. If you insist that you’re the wise one who can clearly see Wenger’s done a poor job for years and should be removed from the club at all cost since yesterday, but are still willing to give the board special concession by either trying to understand their point of view or empathise with their motives or agenda, then surely any person who’s trying to evaluate the situation from a neutral perspective has to make a determination of who is right or wrong here at the end of the day, since what you’re preaching is in fact contradictory to what the board is advocating?

The only 100% irrefutable facts here are; Wenger’s an employee with no power of self appointment while control without any doubt lies with the board/owner. Since it’s already well established that the board is firmly behind Wenger and regards you Wenger-outs as mongs; if you’re still hesitant in pointing the finger at the board as the source of all problems behind our current demise, don’t you realise to any neutral third party looking in, there’s only one way out of the conundrum? Still adamant that the board is not the main culprit? Then as far as any logical person is concerned, there’s only one conclusion or 'donkey references' to be drawn.

[fakeyank]

Therein lies the baffling mong standard of evaluation as far as logical processes goes. If you insist that you’re the wise one who can clearly see Wenger’s done a poor job for years and should be removed from the club at all cost since yesterday, but are still willing to give the board special concession by either trying to understand their point of view or empathise with their motives or agenda, then surely any person who’s trying to evaluate the situation from a neutral perspective has to make a determination of who is right or wrong here at the end of the day, since what you’re preaching is in fact contradictory to what the board is advocating?

The only 100% irrefutable facts here are; Wenger’s an employee with no power of self appointment while control without any doubt lies with the board/owner. Since it’s already well established that the board is firmly behind Wenger and regards you Wenger-outs as mongs; if you’re still hesitant in pointing the finger at the board as the source of all problems behind our current demise, don’t you realise to any neutral third party looking in, there’s only one way out of the conundrum? Still adamant that the board is not the main culprit? Then as far as any logical person is concerned, there’s only one conclusion or 'donkey references' to be drawn.

I'll be honest... I did not really make out everything you said in that. Its probably because your english is amazing or I am super hungover or both but I think what you said is that board is to blame and AW is the scapegoat.. well, here is why I want AW to go before the board:

- AW has mentioned that he will never take interference from the board when it comes to selection of team or meddling with football affairs (Quotes were presented by TEG from an interview asking him about the Real Madrid coaching position)
- AW is in charge of our shambolic defense of 5 seasons.. he can hire a defensive coach and I am 1000% sure that the board wouldnt have a problem with that. So why hasnt he?
- AW is in charge of playing players constantly out of position.. Arshavin, Theo, Eduardo, Bendy, Vela, Diaby on the left/right (who remembers that?) to name a few.. the board doesnt do that... AW does
- AW has the authority to design the dressing rooms of the teams, spas and also to reduce the price of Cesc to sell to Cuntalunia. So I do not understand how you can say AW has no authority..
- Why didnt AW sign Scott Parker or Arteta earlier? Surely the board wouldve sanctioned that... it shouldnt have taken a 8-2 mauling at our so called rivals to change.

What I mentioned above is mostly footballing stuff which the board doesnt have much input for or wouldve clearly not said a 'No' to AW.. Besides AW has constantly told the fans to judge him at the end of every season and he has failed miserably. So yes, I will give more time to the board than Arsene..

[Power n Glory]

I see where your coming from PnG and agree with most but i don't see Wenger having more power then the board, well no more than any other manager in the league tbh.

I agree he has too much power then he should which is wrong, but Stan shoud be able to take that back if he has his own vision which only time will tell.

I've never said he has more power than the Board. He has great influence and is well respected but he's not the ultimate authority. That's not my argument.

I just have a problem when people are willing to look past Wenger's actions and words but lay into the Board.

[Power n Glory]

I'll be honest... I did not really make out everything you said in that. Its probably because your english is amazing or I am super hungover or both but I think what you said is that board is to blame and AW is the scapegoat.. well, here is why I want AW to go before the board:

- AW has mentioned that he will never take interference from the board when it comes to selection of team or meddling with football affairs (Quotes were presented by TEG from an interview asking him about the Real Madrid coaching position)
- AW is in charge of our shambolic defense of 5 seasons.. he can hire a defensive coach and I am 1000% sure that the board wouldnt have a problem with that. So why hasnt he?
- AW is in charge of playing players constantly out of position.. Arshavin, Theo, Eduardo, Bendy, Vela, Diaby on the left/right (who remembers that?) to name a few.. the board doesnt do that... AW does
- AW has the authority to design the dressing rooms of the teams, spas and also to reduce the price of Cesc to sell to Cuntalunia. So I do not understand how you can say AW has no authority..
- Why didnt AW sign Scott Parker or Arteta earlier? Surely the board wouldve sanctioned that... it shouldnt have taken a 8-2 mauling at our so called rivals to change.

What I mentioned above is mostly footballing stuff which the board doesnt have much input for or wouldve clearly not said a 'No' to AW.. Besides AW has constantly told the fans to judge him at the end of every season and he has failed miserably. So yes, I will give more time to the board than Arsene..

That's another point people keep missing. What's happening right now on the pitch is down to Wenger's management style. No matter how messed up things are upstairs, he should be able to whip that team into shape. It's the one area he has complete control over and it doesn't take £100m to get players to track back and defend. We shouldn't be leaking goals like this.

[fakeyank]

I've never said he has more power than the Board. He has great influence and is well respected but he's not the ultimate authority. That's not my argument.

I just have a problem when people are willing to look past Wenger's actions and words but lay into the Board.

:gp:

AW was in fact one of the main man responsible for appointing Gazidis. Which other manager in the world has that much power?

[Japan Shaking All Over]

After reading the back and forth posts, I kind of get both sides. . . .

1) Wenger really is the ultimate culprit (players must shoulder some of the blame) for the going ons on the pitch
2) but I also understand the side of the argument that at the end of the day he is an employee who must get the final nod from the board. . .however his power in this point is immense indeed, hence input into absolutely every level of the club.

This all makes me believe that both parties are in a way making a rod for their own backs as I believe that the board have very little knowledge of the game and are being lead along by Wenger and Wenger is quite happy doing the leading, especially when there is very little challenge to his extremely remunerated position.

There is always going to be a board and we are always going to need a manager and when the shit finally hits the fan it will be Wenger who goes first but how is the question.

The board do not have the balls to sack Wenger based on what he has done for us in the past and he is still our most sucessful manager, which is mainly the reason why I do not join in the witch hunts but I do wish he would have the sense to walk awau himself, I am optimistic about our future but with AW in charge that optimism is slightly misted.

I wish for a manager to be brought in that will be very clear with the board about what is needed and that the sucess of the club financially depend s alot on what goes on on the pitch, and that sucess on the pitch requires bringing in the talent to win games, not throw games away at set pieces or by fielding sub standard line-ups to be humiliated 8:2.

These days world wide appeal is what brings in the money and we are losing that. . . .one example of this is the footie mags we get over here. They all like to go through the leagues and highlight certain teams, they will feature double pages of the squads, the players rumoured to be coming and going etc What has happened over the last couple of years is that Arsenal has been relegated from the third PL team fratured to if we are lucky the fifth, and the other day we were the sixth behind the Scum and we had a half page! Sure we can go out and buy the token Japanese or Korean, but not play them! smacks of Wenger all over, bith Miya and Young have now played in Europe and a move to Arsenal for them is a dream they must be gagging to live. TBH we dont know what they are made of but I would imagine they are thinking that they could do a damm sight better than the crap they are witnessing.

The fact that Wenger keeos getting the freedom to underachieve is quite extraordinary, especially in modern sports, I imagine again, it us the sucess that he has brought to the club that is his ace up the sleeve, but I follow a lot of American sports and six years without sucess will see you picking up your P45 in a flash, no room for sentiment unless you are someone like Phil Jackson or SAF - actually that argument is not only in America, its world-wide!
Which begs the question, what is the power Wenger has? he must be in bed with the board, which basically means they are BOTH very much to BLAME.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

A good post and sums out my perspective on the relationship between the Board and Wenger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:gp:

A good post and sums out my perspective on the relationship between the Board and Wenger.

for once i agree lol

[Super Ghel]

Therein lies the baffling mong standard of evaluation as far as logical processes goes. If you insist that you’re the wise one who can clearly see Wenger’s done a poor job for years and should be removed from the club at all cost since yesterday, but are still willing to give the board special concession by either trying to understand their point of view or empathise with their motives or agenda, then surely any person who’s trying to evaluate the situation from a neutral perspective has to make a determination of who is right or wrong here at the end of the day, since what you’re preaching is in fact contradictory to what the board is advocating?

The only 100% irrefutable facts here are; Wenger’s an employee with no power of self appointment while control without any doubt lies with the board/owner. Since it’s already well established that the board is firmly behind Wenger and regards you Wenger-outs as mongs; if you’re still hesitant in pointing the finger at the board as the source of all problems behind our current demise, don’t you realise to any neutral third party looking in, there’s only one way out of the conundrum? Still adamant that the board is not the main culprit? Then as far as any logical person is concerned, there’s only one conclusion or 'donkey references' to be drawn.
I'll be honest... I did not really make out everything you said in that. Its probably because your english is amazing or I am super hungover or both but I think what you said is that board is to blame and AW is the scapegoat.. well, here is why I want AW to go before the board:
Etc....

It is astonishing to me how you can miss the point of my post entirely under the pretext of chronic cognitive disability due to some alcohol induced dementia when you evidently exhibit no such frailties in forming coherent sentences or even attempt an analysis that has little bearing to the point I was making. It’s not as if I don’t understand or even sympathise with your view, or that my post is some complicated literary masterpiece or logical abstract beyond the intellectual capacity of an average yank or bengali (or whatever it is you are known as in this part of the woods); but how you can interpret my post as an endeavour to imply that Arsene is a scapegoat is beyond me and exists only in your deranged mind.

Look, I’m not even trying to disagree with your points or the various faults you’re pinning on Wenger (not that I don’t think it is not ultimately a futile exercise in objectivity, considering you have problems digesting two mere paragraphs); but in case you are not aware, I do belong to the school of thought that subscribes to the logic that BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! Got that? I’ve stated it numerous times in the past and I’ll say it again. It’s a symbiotic relationship from which there’s little chance of escape. You understand my view now? Just so there’s no further confusion or another mental relapse on your part, I’ll offer a further detailed but simpler elaboration below for your benefit, so please try to flex your cerebral matter a bit and digest the rationale, cos’ I am not going to waste anymore time if you can’t even venture out of your natural state of mental paralysis as far as reading comprehension is concerned.

Basically, as I hinted above, the gist of my post is not to absolve Wenger of blame. And it’s got absolutely fuck all to do with some idiotic insinuation that I’m missing the point about Wenger’s shortcomings or flaws (footballistically or otherwise). That’s not what I’m contesting here! Look, I could easily contribute and join in with the mindless ad nauseum frenzy about Wenger (which I’m sure will help ease your mental constipation and a few usual suspects around here); but no, what I’m asking you to consider is:

What is the fucking point of bleating on endlessly about Wenger, if at the end of the day, you are prepared to cut the board some slack, give them time or whatever it is you think is appropriate (be it trying to understand their point of view, empathise with their motives or whatever it is you feel they’re entitled to)? Because if you do so, then any impartial person who is trying to evaluate the situation objectively from a neutral perspective has the right and is legitimately of sound mind, to conclude that you are a mong! And that is the essence of my point! Not difficult is it?

How so you ask? It’s simple deduction based on the principle of logical consistency! Explain? Well, if you do not apportion the majority of blame towards the board first (regardless of how justified you feel that Wenger is the problem), then from a logical standpoint, there is little, to no consistency in your argument compared to the board’s absolutely symmetrical stance on the subject. Don’t you see the obvious logical flaw? Then try and answer the following questions to see if it finally hits home.

Who the fuck are you in the grand scheme things compared to the board in determining Wenger’s fate and the immediate direction of the club? What is the fucking point and why are you going in circles or what are you hoping to achieve with this endless ad nauseum exorcism of Wenger? Is it not to see Wenger removed from the club at all cost? So if you want to Wenger out, but is prepared to give the board time or cut them some slack or whatever, then don’t you see there is a big gaping hole at the very fundamental levels of what you’re advocating?

So here are the facts again to any neutral observer: In one corner we have the board/owner who are in control of the club; whose stance on the subject is crystal clear and consistent. They are firmly behind their employee of the decade and regard you, the Wenger out clan as mongs. And in the other corner, we have you, the dependable Wenger out hit squad, who makes no counter claim or dispute to the board’s assertion that you are mongs (either by abstinence or implied level of blame) but chose to focus your anguish on the one person in the equation who has no power of self-appointment to keep this travesty in a perpetual loop. Then tell me, how is any neutral, objective person supposed to resolve the conundrum since the views of both camps (You vs. Board) are diametrically opposed to each other? Who is right and who is the mong? Don’t you see, regardless of who you feel is more to blame, if you are not prepared to target the board as the source of the problem, but want Wenger out of the club ASAP, there’s only one logical verdict to any unbiased observer?

Still adamant that you are right? That the board should be given time or take a lesser apportionment of the blame? Then let’s go a step further and see if the principle of logical consistency applies to the issue of whether Wenger should consider resignation. To any neutral arbitrator, the following questions needs to be answered. Who has the right to determine the immediate direction or focus of the club? Is it the supporters who want a steady stream of trophies and bragging rights? Or does that right belong to the stakeholders who paid the millions to exercise legal control of the club? As an employee, who should Wenger cater to?

So why should Wenger contemplate resigning if he is delivering what is asked of him and meeting the performance targets set out by his employers? Why should he give up his hard earned pay or bite the hand that feeds him? Has he not earned the right to be remunerated like any employee? When the ‘hand’ wanted pitchside glory, he delivered trophies, when the same hand later wished for “shareholder value”, he delivered on that front as well, and then some. Heck, he’s even compared to the likes of Warren Buffet in his field. Surely there can be no greater accolade? So the pertinent question remains to any impartial observer, who the fuck are you Wenger-outs and what makes you more of an expert in determining what is best for the club when you can’t even resolve or offer a consistent logical agenda? Why the fuck should Wenger pay any attention to you when you make no counter claims or arguments to the board’s assertion that you are mongs? See how this logic failure leads to many problems?

So FY, after all that, do you still maintain that the board should be given time and not shoulder the majority of the blame? Then if all my “amazing English” above is too much for you to handle and the logic still escapes you, then just take home this message if nothing else. TO THE NEUTRAL ABRITATORS OUT THERE, YOU ARE A MONG IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE YOUR STANCE ON THE ISSUE. Not hard to understand is it? Perhaps you care to dispute their logical conclusion?

[Flavs]

It is astonishing to me how you can miss the point of my post entirely under the pretext of chronic cognitive disability due to some alcohol induced dementia when you evidently exhibit no such frailties in forming coherent sentences or even attempt an analysis that has little bearing to the point I was making. It’s not as if I don’t understand or even sympathise with your view, or that my post is some complicated literary masterpiece or logical abstract beyond the intellectual capacity of an average yank or bengali (or whatever it is you are known as in this part of the woods); but how you can interpret my post as an endeavour to imply that Arsene is a scapegoat is beyond me and exists only in your deranged mind.


Ouch, you bitch you

[fakeyank]

It is astonishing to me how you can miss the point of my post entirely under the pretext of chronic cognitive disability due to some alcohol induced dementia when you evidently exhibit no such frailties in forming coherent sentences or even attempt an analysis that has little bearing to the point I was making. It’s not as if I don’t understand or even sympathise with your view, or that my post is some complicated literary masterpiece or logical abstract beyond the intellectual capacity of an average yank or bengali (or whatever it is you are known as in this part of the woods); but how you can interpret my post as an endeavour to imply that Arsene is a scapegoat is beyond me and exists only in your deranged mind.

Look, I’m not even trying to disagree with your points or the various faults you’re pinning on Wenger (not that I don’t think it is not ultimately a futile exercise in objectivity, considering you have problems digesting two mere paragraphs); but in case you are not aware, I do belong to the school of thought that subscribes to the logic that BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! Got that? I’ve stated it numerous times in the past and I’ll say it again. It’s a symbiotic relationship from which there’s little chance of escape. You understand my view now? Just so there’s no further confusion or another mental relapse on your part, I’ll offer a further detailed but simpler elaboration below for your benefit, so please try to flex your cerebral matter a bit and digest the rationale, cos’ I am not going to waste anymore time if you can’t even venture out of your natural state of mental paralysis as far as reading comprehension is concerned.

Basically, as I hinted above, the gist of my post is not to absolve Wenger of blame. And it’s got absolutely fuck all to do with some idiotic insinuation that I’m missing the point about Wenger’s shortcomings or flaws (footballistically or otherwise). That’s not what I’m contesting here! Look, I could easily contribute and join in with the mindless ad nauseum frenzy about Wenger (which I’m sure will help ease your mental constipation and a few usual suspects around here); but no, what I’m asking you to consider is:

What is the fucking point of bleating on endlessly about Wenger, if at the end of the day, you are prepared to cut the board some slack, give them time or whatever it is you think is appropriate (be it trying to understand their point of view, empathise with their motives or whatever it is you feel they’re entitled to)? Because if you do so, then any impartial person who is trying to evaluate the situation objectively from a neutral perspective has the right and is legitimately of sound mind, to conclude that you are a mong! And that is the essence of my point! Not difficult is it?

How so you ask? It’s simple deduction based on the principle of logical consistency! Explain? Well, if you do not apportion the majority of blame towards the board first (regardless of how justified you feel that Wenger is the problem), then from a logical standpoint, there is little, to no consistency in your argument compared to the board’s absolutely symmetrical stance on the subject. Don’t you see the obvious logical flaw? Then try and answer the following questions to see if it finally hits home.

Who the fuck are you in the grand scheme things compared to the board in determining Wenger’s fate and the immediate direction of the club? What is the fucking point and why are you going in circles or what are you hoping to achieve with this endless ad nauseum exorcism of Wenger? Is it not to see Wenger removed from the club at all cost? So if you want to Wenger out, but is prepared to give the board time or cut them some slack or whatever, then don’t you see there is a big gaping hole at the very fundamental levels of what you’re advocating?

So here are the facts again to any neutral observer: In one corner we have the board/owner who are in control of the club; whose stance on the subject is crystal clear and consistent. They are firmly behind their employee of the decade and regard you, the Wenger out clan as mongs. And in the other corner, we have you, the dependable Wenger out hit squad, who makes no counter claim or dispute to the board’s assertion that you are mongs (either by abstinence or implied level of blame) but chose to focus your anguish on the one person in the equation who has no power of self-appointment to keep this travesty in a perpetual loop. Then tell me, how is any neutral, objective person supposed to resolve the conundrum since the views of both camps (You vs. Board) are diametrically opposed to each other? Who is right and who is the mong? Don’t you see, regardless of who you feel is more to blame, if you are not prepared to target the board as the source of the problem, but want Wenger out of the club ASAP, there’s only one logical verdict to any unbiased observer?

Still adamant that you are right? That the board should be given time or take a lesser apportionment of the blame? Then let’s go a step further and see if the principle of logical consistency applies to the issue of whether Wenger should consider resignation. To any neutral arbitrator, the following questions needs to be answered. Who has the right to determine the immediate direction or focus of the club? Is it the supporters who want a steady stream of trophies and bragging rights? Or does that right belong to the stakeholders who paid the millions to exercise legal control of the club? As an employee, who should Wenger cater to?

So why should Wenger contemplate resigning if he is delivering what is asked of him and meeting the performance targets set out by his employers? Why should he give up his hard earned pay or bite the hand that feeds him? Has he not earned the right to be remunerated like any employee? When the ‘hand’ wanted pitchside glory, he delivered trophies, when the same hand later wished for “shareholder value”, he delivered on that front as well, and then some. Heck, he’s even compared to the likes of Warren Buffet in his field. Surely there can be no greater accolade? So the pertinent question remains to any impartial observer, who the fuck are you Wenger-outs and what makes you more of an expert in determining what is best for the club when you can’t even resolve or offer a consistent logical agenda? Why the fuck should Wenger pay any attention to you when you make no counter claims or arguments to the board’s assertion that you are mongs? See how this logic failure leads to many problems?

So FY, after all that, do you still maintain that the board should be given time and not shoulder the majority of the blame? Then if all my “amazing English” above is too much for you to handle and the logic still escapes you, then just take home this message if nothing else. TO THE NEUTRAL ABRITATORS OUT THERE, YOU ARE A MONG IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE YOUR STANCE ON THE ISSUE. Not hard to understand is it? Perhaps you care to dispute their logical conclusion?

I agree with you. You are right.

[fakeyank]

Coming back to the point. The board is to blame for not firing AW and not anything else.

In a post that looked like an extensive use of the dictionary, I found this quote and my apologies for selective quoting:


So why should Wenger contemplate resigning if he is delivering what is asked of him and meeting the performance targets set out by his employers? Why should he give up his hard earned pay or bite the hand that feeds him?

Wenger himself says that he wants to win championships. Heck, he was winning championships, so all of a sudden he is now a middle class worker just happy to take the pay check? Thats retarded logic to come from someone who has mugged the English Dictionary! Its not like AW will have no job or he will make any lesser if he were to join Real Madrid, City, in fact more.. so why stay at a club that does not match his ambition or his potential higher pay?

Again, I put this question tons of times and never got it answered so I am guessing your Oxford dictionary can answer them:
- Why is our defense so bad for 5 seasons?
- Why didnt we sign a defensive coach?
- Why are players not played in their natural positions?
- Why wasnt a player like Parker signed when he was cheap, available and has been top notch?

[Power n Glory]

It is astonishing to me how you can miss the point of my post entirely under the pretext of chronic cognitive disability due to some alcohol induced dementia when you evidently exhibit no such frailties in forming coherent sentences or even attempt an analysis that has little bearing to the point I was making. It’s not as if I don’t understand or even sympathise with your view, or that my post is some complicated literary masterpiece or logical abstract beyond the intellectual capacity of an average yank or bengali (or whatever it is you are known as in this part of the woods); but how you can interpret my post as an endeavour to imply that Arsene is a scapegoat is beyond me and exists only in your deranged mind.

Look, I’m not even trying to disagree with your points or the various faults you’re pinning on Wenger (not that I don’t think it is not ultimately a futile exercise in objectivity, considering you have problems digesting two mere paragraphs); but in case you are not aware, I do belong to the school of thought that subscribes to the logic that BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! Got that? I’ve stated it numerous times in the past and I’ll say it again. It’s a symbiotic relationship from which there’s little chance of escape. You understand my view now? Just so there’s no further confusion or another mental relapse on your part, I’ll offer a further detailed but simpler elaboration below for your benefit, so please try to flex your cerebral matter a bit and digest the rationale, cos’ I am not going to waste anymore time if you can’t even venture out of your natural state of mental paralysis as far as reading comprehension is concerned.

Basically, as I hinted above, the gist of my post is not to absolve Wenger of blame. And it’s got absolutely fuck all to do with some idiotic insinuation that I’m missing the point about Wenger’s shortcomings or flaws (footballistically or otherwise). That’s not what I’m contesting here! Look, I could easily contribute and join in with the mindless ad nauseum frenzy about Wenger (which I’m sure will help ease your mental constipation and a few usual suspects around here); but no, what I’m asking you to consider is:

What is the fucking point of bleating on endlessly about Wenger, if at the end of the day, you are prepared to cut the board some slack, give them time or whatever it is you think is appropriate (be it trying to understand their point of view, empathise with their motives or whatever it is you feel they’re entitled to)? Because if you do so, then any impartial person who is trying to evaluate the situation objectively from a neutral perspective has the right and is legitimately of sound mind, to conclude that you are a mong! And that is the essence of my point! Not difficult is it?

How so you ask? It’s simple deduction based on the principle of logical consistency! Explain? Well, if you do not apportion the majority of blame towards the board first (regardless of how justified you feel that Wenger is the problem), then from a logical standpoint, there is little, to no consistency in your argument compared to the board’s absolutely symmetrical stance on the subject. Don’t you see the obvious logical flaw? Then try and answer the following questions to see if it finally hits home.

Who the fuck are you in the grand scheme things compared to the board in determining Wenger’s fate and the immediate direction of the club? What is the fucking point and why are you going in circles or what are you hoping to achieve with this endless ad nauseum exorcism of Wenger? Is it not to see Wenger removed from the club at all cost? So if you want to Wenger out, but is prepared to give the board time or cut them some slack or whatever, then don’t you see there is a big gaping hole at the very fundamental levels of what you’re advocating?

So here are the facts again to any neutral observer: In one corner we have the board/owner who are in control of the club; whose stance on the subject is crystal clear and consistent. They are firmly behind their employee of the decade and regard you, the Wenger out clan as mongs. And in the other corner, we have you, the dependable Wenger out hit squad, who makes no counter claim or dispute to the board’s assertion that you are mongs (either by abstinence or implied level of blame) but chose to focus your anguish on the one person in the equation who has no power of self-appointment to keep this travesty in a perpetual loop. Then tell me, how is any neutral, objective person supposed to resolve the conundrum since the views of both camps (You vs. Board) are diametrically opposed to each other? Who is right and who is the mong? Don’t you see, regardless of who you feel is more to blame, if you are not prepared to target the board as the source of the problem, but want Wenger out of the club ASAP, there’s only one logical verdict to any unbiased observer?

Still adamant that you are right? That the board should be given time or take a lesser apportionment of the blame? Then let’s go a step further and see if the principle of logical consistency applies to the issue of whether Wenger should consider resignation. To any neutral arbitrator, the following questions needs to be answered. Who has the right to determine the immediate direction or focus of the club? Is it the supporters who want a steady stream of trophies and bragging rights? Or does that right belong to the stakeholders who paid the millions to exercise legal control of the club? As an employee, who should Wenger cater to?

So why should Wenger contemplate resigning if he is delivering what is asked of him and meeting the performance targets set out by his employers? Why should he give up his hard earned pay or bite the hand that feeds him? Has he not earned the right to be remunerated like any employee? When the ‘hand’ wanted pitchside glory, he delivered trophies, when the same hand later wished for “shareholder value”, he delivered on that front as well, and then some. Heck, he’s even compared to the likes of Warren Buffet in his field. Surely there can be no greater accolade? So the pertinent question remains to any impartial observer, who the fuck are you Wenger-outs and what makes you more of an expert in determining what is best for the club when you can’t even resolve or offer a consistent logical agenda? Why the fuck should Wenger pay any attention to you when you make no counter claims or arguments to the board’s assertion that you are mongs? See how this logic failure leads to many problems?

So FY, after all that, do you still maintain that the board should be given time and not shoulder the majority of the blame? Then if all my “amazing English” above is too much for you to handle and the logic still escapes you, then just take home this message if nothing else. TO THE NEUTRAL ABRITATORS OUT THERE, YOU ARE A MONG IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE YOUR STANCE ON THE ISSUE. Not hard to understand is it? Perhaps you care to dispute their logical conclusion?
As a football coach, Wenger should have the burning desire to win trophies and strive for dominance. Even if his employers are satisfied, he shouldn’t be. He’d never tell his players to go out and play for a draw because the objective is to win and the ultimate prize is a trophy at the end of the season. The money men may be satisfied with the cash rolling in but that shouldn’t be the case for Wenger. If he’s happy to accept such terms then he’s given up the ghost then that’s a problem. It’s like a washed up boxer happy to step into the ring and take a dive because his promoter wants to make more money.

I’ve got a serious problem with that sort of attitude. It’s the same way I have a problem with the team stepping out on the field and not giving their all. They’re athletes. Winning is the objective. The people that own this club just want to keep it running and they don’t have that same passion or they just want to see us through this period until we have the stadium paid off and get through this recession. They have other things to worry about which is why I won’t come down too hard on them. It’s in their nature.

It’s a problem on both ends but when it comes to sport, an athlete usually calls time on his own career when he knows he’s past it. Wenger is making some terrible decisions and it’s embarrassing to be honest. The Board should probably fire him but this is the first time he’s in real trouble of missing the mark they’ve set for him. We’ll see what happens at the end of the season.

[Özim]

As a football coach, Wenger should have the burning desire to win trophies and strive for dominance. Even if his employers are satisfied, he shouldn’t be. He’d never tell his players to go out and play for a draw because the objective is to win and the ultimate prize is a trophy at the end of the season. The money men may be satisfied with the cash rolling in but that shouldn’t be the case for Wenger. If he’s happy to accept such terms then he’s given up the ghost then that’s a problem. It’s like a washed up boxer happy to step into the ring and take a dive because his promoter wants to make more money.

I’ve got a serious problem with that sort of attitude. It’s the same way I have a problem with the team stepping out on the field and not giving their all. They’re athletes. Winning is the objective. The people that own this club just want to keep it running and they don’t have that same passion or they just want to see us through this period until we have the stadium paid off and get through this recession. They have other things to worry about which is why I won’t come down too hard on them. It’s in their nature.

It’s a problem on both ends but when it comes to sport, an athlete usually calls time on his own career when he knows he’s past it. Wenger is making some terrible decisions and it’s embarrassing to be honest. The Board should probably fire him but this is the first time he’s in real trouble of missing the mark they’ve set for him. We’ll see what happens at the end of the season.
Great post, if he had any pride in his job he'd be doing everything he could to win....seems to me he's picking up his paycheck and patting himself on the back for making the board money...he's mentioned making the club money before after all.

He's a big part of the problem.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Wow. So Wenger doesn't even want to win anymore?

Words fail me.

[Cripps_orig]

He doesnt do what it takes to win

[Özim]

Wow. So Wenger doesn't even want to win anymore?

Words fail me.
Nope, finances are more important to him now, winning isn't that important to him as he's said before.

That's why he's won f*ck all for 6 years, hails 4th place as some glorious achievement and why he's got a team of bottlers. If he wanted to win at all costs he'd be doing a hell of a lot differently.

One of football's losers these days I'm afraid.

[fakeyank]

Wow. So Wenger doesn't even want to win anymore?

Words fail me.

No, thats what Super Ghel mentioned. AW wants to win.. I am sure he would love to be a PL or a CL winner but he wants to do it with his kids, his retarded logic of playing players out of position, of having a crap defense and no experienced players (up until the 8-2 mauling).

[Power n Glory]

Wow. So Wenger doesn't even want to win anymore?

Words fail me.

You should direct that at Super Ghel because that's what he seems to be implying. Wenger is doing as the Board ask and if 4th is good enough for them, it’s good enough for him.

[Özim]

Everyone wants to win, some people however take winning more seriously than others.

Wenger is a "if I win great, if not nevermind" kinda guy.

[Fist of Lehmann]

You should direct that at Super Ghel because that's what he seems to be implying. Wenger is doing as the Board ask and if 4th is good enough for them, it’s good enough for him.This?

This is what you took from Super Ghels "Why FakeYank is a Mong" post?

[Power n Glory]

This?

This is what you took from Super Ghels "Why FakeYank is a Mong" post?

Part of it you ass!

[Fist of Lehmann]

Part of it you ass!And in choosing to address only part you miss the overall point.

[Power n Glory]

And in choosing to address only part you miss the overall point.

I think you should read the last three paragraphs of his post again. The part asks 'why Wenger should consider resigning'.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I think you should read the last three paragraphs of his post again. The part asks 'why Wenger should consider resigning'.Can't be bothered.

[Power n Glory]

Can't be bothered.

And you've got the nerve to question my overall understanding of his post. :lol:

You haven't got a clue what he said, admit it.

[Super Ghel]

Again, I put this question tons of times and never got it answered so I am guessing your Oxford dictionary can answer them:
- Why is our defense so bad for 5 seasons?
- Why didnt we sign a defensive coach?
- Why are players not played in their natural positions?
- Why wasnt a player like Parker signed when he was cheap, available and has been top notch?

Why do you want to do this to yourself FY? You were doing just fine earlier when you gave in to your logical sensibilities and should have just stopped there to be honest. In hindsight, now nobody can be sure if the non-mong declaration that you’ve signed earlier is the appropriate option for you any longer since your reply above clearly demonstrates your deductive prowess is no better than that of some demented, butthurt or confused soul with little to offer other than an amazing display of cerebral haemorrhage <--(go whip out your Anglo-Bengal dictionary if you must; not my problem).

Seriously, what the hell does my rich diverse vocabulary have anything to do with your incessant parroting of Wenger bashing points, which I’m not even arguing? Did you not read what I wrote? BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! I am not absolving Arsene of anything! How many ways do I need to repeat myself before that point finally sifts thru your disproportionately thick cranium?

Just because I chose not to join in with the mindless foray of Wenger bashing (which has been repeated ad nauseam) does not mean I don’t hold him responsible! If laying into Wenger helps ease your mental constipation; then fine, carry on until you turn blue for all I care. That’s not the point I was making. What I’m saying is; if you continue to lay into Wenger but is OK with cutting the board some slack; then it is perfectly legitimate for any neutral person to objectively conclude that YOU ARE A MONG! So, unless that you are disputing that logical stance, then nothing has changed here, if you’re still missing the big picture.


Wenger himself says that he wants to win championships. Heck, he was winning championships, so all of a sudden he is now a middle class worker just happy to take the pay check? Thats retarded logic to come from someone who has mugged the English Dictionary! Its not like AW will have no job or he will make any lesser if he were to join Real Madrid, City, in fact more.. so why stay at a club that does not match his ambition or his potential higher pay?

Again, what is with your obsession with the manner in which I express myself? Did my choice of words or colourful vocabulary stung you that much; it was your sad attempt at some sort of comeback sarcasm? Well, if that is the extent of your wit, then let me just say this: It is so pathetically lame that the only way you’re going to get a rise out of me is this: (picture me lending a sympathetic hand to your cause by raising my arm and tickling my armpit furiously with a feather).

Your selective quoting and pathetic attempt above at trying to spin your retarded inferences on me is another cringeworthy display of epic proportions. Look, that snippet is NOT a blanket statement by me to postulate whether or not Arsene has any ambition footballistically; but rather the viewpoint of a neutral perspective to determine: who is the mong here (you or the Board) and whose whims Arsene should cater to first!

Like I said, if you want to bleat on like a parrot and beat Arsene to a pulp before you can regain any inklings of sanity; carry on, but it still does not change the logical conclusion of an impartial observer that you’re a mong if you think the board is the sensible party here and not the main problem! To the neutral observer, it is well within Arsene’s right and prerogative if he believes he gets more job satisfaction out of doing the right thing by listening to, or even have his manhood constantly serviced by the clued-up people (who you support as the non-mongs in this equation), and get handsomely rewarded in the process. Get it?? Goddamn! It is amusing to see the embarrassing levels of mental constipation being exhibited here by certain posters when someone doesn’t go on some mindless crusade against Wenger.

Look FY, temped as I am to deliver another can of whoop ass (though the novelty does wear out quite quickly since it’s evidently so one sided), but unless you intend to dispute the logical argument that from a neutral perspective that you are a MONG; then there’s hardly any point of us engaging further in this activity because it’s damn obvious to any impartial onlooker here, there is a huge glaring disparity between us in terms of basic cognitive ability. Jeez why do I even bother wasting my time like this, I’ll never know.

[Super Ghel]

The people that own this club just want to keep it running and they don’t have that same passion or they just want to see us through this period until we have the stadium paid off and get through this recession. They have other things to worry about which is why I won’t come down too hard on them. It’s in their nature.

Your empathy towards the board above is exactly the point I was trying to make! Instead of wasting my time typing, I’ll just refer you to the following important extract of my post:


What is the fucking point of bleating on endlessly about Wenger, if at the end of the day, you are prepared to cut the board some slack, give them time or whatever it is you think is appropriate (be it trying to understand their point of view, empathise with their motives or whatever it is you feel they’re entitled to)? Because if you do so, then any impartial person who is trying to evaluate the situation objectively from a neutral perspective has the right and is legitimately of sound mind, to conclude that you are a mong! It’s simple deduction based on the principle of logical consistency. If you do not apportion the majority of blame towards the board first (regardless of how justified you feel that Wenger is the problem), then from a logical standpoint, there is little, to no consistency in your argument compared to the board’s absolutely symmetrical stance on the subject.

So here are the facts to any neutral observer: In one corner we have the board/owner who are in control of the club; whose stance on the subject is crystal clear and consistent. They are firmly behind their employee of the decade and regard you, the Wenger out clan as mongs. And in the other corner, we have you, the dependable Wenger out hit squad, who makes no counter claim or dispute to the board’s assertion that you are mongs (either by abstinence or implied level of blame) but chose to focus your anguish on the one person in the equation who has no power of self-appointment to keep this travesty in a perpetual loop. Then tell me, how is any neutral, objective person supposed to resolve the conundrum since the views of both camps (You vs. Board) are diametrically opposed to each other? Who is right and who is the mong? Don’t you see, regardless of who you feel is more to blame, if you are not prepared to target the board as the source of the problem, but want Wenger out of the club ASAP, there’s only one logical verdict to any unbiased observer?

Look, I have no problems at all with the Wenger bashing. It’s fair game to me and some of it, quite justifiably so. But I draw the line where cutting the board some slack is concerned, because the significance of logical due process takes precedence as far as I am concerned (regardless of how justifiably inclined you may feel otherwise).

The only other person in this forum who I can recall off the top of my head who shares my kind of aversion to the Board and their ‘sort’ is brilliant Mr Niall Quinn. Maybe it’s because I think we’re both roughly at the same level of experience in terms of having accumulated enough of that kind of déjà vu familiarity and so are naturally inclined to an immediate suspicion of that sort of devious cunning running in the background, which the masses are blissfully oblivious to. But I digress. Anyways, my point is if you’re the sort who gets off repeatedly by dumping your excrement on a picture of Arsene in the privacy of your home and have no problem of being perceived as a mong from the viewpoint of a neutral third party, then the prerogative is entirely yours.

[Super Ghel]

This?

This is what you took from Super Ghels "Why FakeYank is a Mong" post?

:good: Ha, a wise one who can see the picture and read between the lines. I like.

[Super Ghel]

I think you should read the last three paragraphs of his post again. The part asks 'why Wenger should consider resigning'.

It’s obvious it’s not Fist of Lehmann who needs a re-read. Go read my reply to FY if you’re missing the point. Goddamn it’s quite cringeworthy to see this exhibition of an united mong front which is devoid of independent thought or even basic reading comprehension.

[Power n Glory]

It’s obvious it’s not Fist of Lehmann who needs a re-read. Go read my reply to FY if you’re missing the point. Goddamn it’s quite cringeworthy to see this exhibition of an united mong front which is devoid of independent thought or even basic reading comprehension.

I don't think so. I disagree with the point you made. Quite an ego you have there, mate.

[fakeyank]

Why do you want to do this to yourself FY? You were doing just fine earlier when you gave in to your logical sensibilities and should have just stopped there to be honest. In hindsight, now nobody can be sure if the non-mong declaration that you’ve signed earlier is the appropriate option for you any longer since your reply above clearly demonstrates your deductive prowess is no better than that of some demented, butthurt or confused soul with little to offer other than an amazing display of cerebral haemorrhage <--(go whip out your Anglo-Bengal dictionary if you must; not my problem).

Seriously, what the hell does my rich diverse vocabulary have anything to do with your incessant parroting of Wenger bashing points, which I’m not even arguing? Did you not read what I wrote? BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! I am not absolving Arsene of anything! How many ways do I need to repeat myself before that point finally sifts thru your disproportionately thick cranium?

Just because I chose not to join in with the mindless foray of Wenger bashing (which has been repeated ad nauseam) does not mean I don’t hold him responsible! If laying into Wenger helps ease your mental constipation; then fine, carry on until you turn blue for all I care. That’s not the point I was making. What I’m saying is; if you continue to lay into Wenger but is OK with cutting the board some slack; then it is perfectly legitimate for any neutral person to objectively conclude that YOU ARE A MONG! So, unless that you are disputing that logical stance, then nothing has changed here, if you’re still missing the big picture.



Again, what is with your obsession with the manner in which I express myself? Did my choice of words or colourful vocabulary stung you that much; it was your sad attempt at some sort of comeback sarcasm? Well, if that is the extent of your wit, then let me just say this: It is so pathetically lame that the only way you’re going to get a rise out of me is this: (picture me lending a sympathetic hand to your cause by raising my arm and tickling my armpit furiously with a feather).

Your selective quoting and pathetic attempt above at trying to spin your retarded inferences on me is another cringeworthy display of epic proportions. Look, that snippet is NOT a blanket statement by me to postulate whether or not Arsene has any ambition footballistically; but rather the viewpoint of a neutral perspective to determine: who is the mong here (you or the Board) and whose whims Arsene should cater to first!

Like I said, if you want to bleat on like a parrot and beat Arsene to a pulp before you can regain any inklings of sanity; carry on, but it still does not change the logical conclusion of an impartial observer that you’re a mong if you think the board is the sensible party here and not the main problem! To the neutral observer, it is well within Arsene’s right and prerogative if he believes he gets more job satisfaction out of doing the right thing by listening to, or even have his manhood constantly serviced by the clued-up people (who you support as the non-mongs in this equation), and get handsomely rewarded in the process. Get it?? Goddamn! It is amusing to see the embarrassing levels of mental constipation being exhibited here by certain posters when someone doesn’t go on some mindless crusade against Wenger.

Look FY, temped as I am to deliver another can of whoop ass (though the novelty does wear out quite quickly since it’s evidently so one sided), but unless you intend to dispute the logical argument that from a neutral perspective that you are a MONG; then there’s hardly any point of us engaging further in this activity because it’s damn obvious to any impartial onlooker here, there is a huge glaring disparity between us in terms of basic cognitive ability. Jeez why do I even bother wasting my time like this, I’ll never know.

Well again, you quoted my questions but didnt answer them. You never answered how the board is responsible for our decline footballistically? What can the freaking board do? I do understand you are blaming both the board and Arsene but I do not see how you can call out the board when factually there is no context for the BS you (and some others like you) spout on here about them.

Where do you get your facts that the board is in some way bringing the club down? I really would love to see the logic behind blaming the board for our decline over the last 5 seasons. Other than the fact that they have not fired AW, please come with ONE fact or source that says they are to blame.. go on!

As for the pathetic attempts at wind up by calling me a mong or talking about my background, I wont reply to that because some of the mods on here have a hard on against the board anyway and are selective in what posts they allow to be posted.. chances are I’ll get a warning for being racist or too harsh towards your ass. If you want to continue this, feel free to PM me

[Power n Glory]

Your empathy towards the board above is exactly the point I was trying to make! Instead of wasting my time typing, I’ll just refer you to the following important extract of my post:



Look, I have no problems at all with the Wenger bashing. It’s fair game to me and some of it, quite justifiably so. But I draw the line where cutting the board some slack is concerned, because the significance of logical due process takes precedence as far as I am concerned (regardless of how justifiably inclined you may feel otherwise).

The only other person in this forum who I can recall off the top of my head who shares my kind of aversion to the Board and their ‘sort’ is brilliant Mr Niall Quinn. Maybe it’s because I think we’re both roughly at the same level of experience in terms of having accumulated enough of that kind of déjà vu familiarity and so are naturally inclined to an immediate suspicion of that sort of devious cunning running in the background, which the masses are blissfully oblivious to. But I digress. Anyways, my point is if you’re the sort who gets off repeatedly by dumping your excrement on a picture of Arsene in the privacy of your home and have no problem of being perceived as a mong from the viewpoint of a neutral third party, then the prerogative is entirely yours.

It's pretty obnoxious to assume 'the masses' are 'blisfully oblivious' to the Board and their 'sort'. I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered arrogant, pompous, pricks from time to time and just because we're not the type that rubs shoulders with these guys at some sort of annual black tie event, it doesn't mean we're unaware of them.

I get your argument, there is nothing wrong with my comprehension skills, what your saying is pretty basic but slightly long winded and elobarate.

Yes, both are to blame, but I'm looking in from a sporting perspective and i'm not cutting the Board slack, just saying I'm aware of their 'type'. It is very unlikely for things to change at Board level. In fact, we've seen a dramatic change in ownership, yet we're still heading in the same direction. It is very unlikey that we'll find an owner that will focus on football and winning without thinking about profits and financial gain. Whoever owns the club will be of that 'type'. It's the nature of the beast. We're probably one of the few clubs that gets praised for the way we're run and the staff we have, so we're not the worst out there. Not saying it should be excused just saying you can't change a leopards spots, it's the nature of football ownership and any sort of corporation to be fair.

We can change ownership, but I'd still have a problem with Wenger not teaching his players to defend and playing people out of position. This is why I say it's easier to change the coach. Look at it this way, when Wenger arrived, our aspirations as a club changed dramatically. With a new coach, we could possibly see the same thing. But, you are right, there is no point in going into this if the Board won't fire Wenger. But as I've said before, they've had no reason to fire him before and this is the first sign of real trouble. He has always delivered CL football so they won't rock the boat. We will see what happens if the shit hits the fan this season.

But besides the managerial mistakes from Wenger, I have a real problem with the way he 'caters' to the Board and the way people on here overlook it. This is probably why he gets 'bashed' on here so much. I don't get the sense that he's in there having to fight against the system to get his way. We don't know what's happening behind closed doors but I've got a problem when Wenger endorses the Boards policies. Stuff like promoting the rise in ticket prices so we can 'compete' with the likes of Chelsea, practically opening the door for players like RVP and mentally preparing the fans to lose another one of our vital assets, lying to the fans about signing players…okay, I get your point about not biting the hand that feeds you but if we can agree that the Board and their ‘type’ are ‘devious and cunning’ then Wenger fits in. Why is he championing their policies and ethos so hard? I can’t respect that and I guess it’s the same for a few other posters. If we had the sense that he was in there having to hold his corner and battling against this culture we have, I’d have more tolerance, but it seems to me like he’s swimming along with the tide. He’s paid by them to do so, but he doesn’t have to. When Villa tried to pull a similar stunt with Martin O’Neil, he walked because his sporting ambition wouldn’t allow him to tolerate such a culture.

It’s the same for the players. They leave us because they realize the club has no ambition and Wenger is pushing in the direction of financial prudence and responsibility. In my opinion, a sports person should be looking to improve his team and pushing that agenda on to the Board, but it looks like one way traffic from where I’m standing and the players aren’t blind either. Yes, we can blame the Board and Wenger but I see it as Wenger’s responsibility to push the teams agenda and fight to hold on to players, not preach financial prudence so much that it hurts the team. He’s a sportsperson and winning is the ultimate objective. I spoke earlier about the nature of owners but the nature of a sportsperson should be different. I mentioned this in my original post.

I’m aware of the point you’re making, but I’m not sure if you get where I’m coming from and please don’t start with the name calling and insults. It’s off putting. You can question my position and stance on this but not my intelligence. It doesn’t have to go down that route. I expect Wenger to have a burning passion to win trophies regardless of the stance the Board take. I also lose a lot of respect for him because he’s willing to compromise himself for these guys. It’s like watching your favorite artist completely sell out and pay lip service to the sharks in suites that own his record label. When you see your favorite artists or band pull such a stunt, you lose a lot of respect for them because it shows a lack of integrity. You know the nature of the beast and industry they have to work in, but you don’t blame the label, you blame the artist more because he’s sold out for the check. I feel the same way about Wenger if we’re going to talk about him ‘catering’ to a crowd. Again, he’s sportsperson and he should have an automatic burning desire to win trophies and build a championship winning team.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Can't believe people are being worked up over AW or the board. its geting boring now, Just get rid of both and be done i say.

[fakeyank]

It's pretty obnoxious to assume 'the masses' are 'blisfully oblivious' to the Board and their 'sort'. I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered arrogant, pompous, pricks from time to time and just because we're not the type that rubs shoulders with these guys at some sort of annual black tie event, it doesn't mean we're unaware of them.

I get your argument, there is nothing wrong with my comprehension skills, what your saying is pretty basic but slightly long winded and elobarate.

Yes, both are to blame, but I'm looking in from a sporting perspective and i'm not cutting the Board slack, just saying I'm aware of their 'type'. It is very unlikely for things to change at Board level. In fact, we've seen a dramatic change in ownership, yet we're still heading in the same direction. It is very unlikey that we'll find an owner that will focus on football and winning without thinking about profits and financial gain. Whoever owns the club will be of that 'type'. It's the nature of the beast. We're probably one of the few clubs that gets praised for the way we're run and the staff we have, so we're not the worst out there. Not saying it should be excused just saying you can't change a leopards spots, it's the nature of football ownership and any sort of corporation to be fair.

We can change ownership, but I'd still have a problem with Wenger not teaching his players to defend and playing people out of position. This is why I say it's easier to change the coach. Look at it this way, when Wenger arrived, our aspirations as a club changed dramatically. With a new coach, we could possibly see the same thing. But, you are right, there is no point in going into this if the Board won't fire Wenger. But as I've said before, they've had no reason to fire him before and this is the first sign of real trouble. He has always delivered CL football so they won't rock the boat. We will see what happens if the shit hits the fan this season.

But besides the managerial mistakes from Wenger, I have a real problem with the way he 'caters' to the Board and the way people on here overlook it. This is probably why he gets 'bashed' on here so much. I don't get the sense that he's in there having to fight against the system to get his way. We don't know what's happening behind closed doors but I've got a problem when Wenger endorses the Boards policies. Stuff like promoting the rise in ticket prices so we can 'compete' with the likes of Chelsea, practically opening the door for players like RVP and mentally preparing the fans to lose another one of our vital assets, lying to the fans about signing players…okay, I get your point about not biting the hand that feeds you but if we can agree that the Board and their ‘type’ are ‘devious and cunning’ then Wenger fits in. Why is he championing their policies and ethos so hard? I can’t respect that and I guess it’s the same for a few other posters. If we had the sense that he was in there having to hold his corner and battling against this culture we have, I’d have more tolerance, but it seems to me like he’s swimming along with the tide. He’s paid by them to do so, but he doesn’t have to. When Villa tried to pull a similar stunt with Martin O’Neil, he walked because his sporting ambition wouldn’t allow him to tolerate such a culture.

It’s the same for the players. They leave us because they realize the club has no ambition and Wenger is pushing in the direction of financial prudence and responsibility. In my opinion, a sports person should be looking to improve his team and pushing that agenda on to the Board, but it looks like one way traffic from where I’m standing and the players aren’t blind either. Yes, we can blame the Board and Wenger but I see it as Wenger’s responsibility to push the teams agenda and fight to hold on to players, not preach financial prudence so much that it hurts the team. He’s a sportsperson and winning is the ultimate objective. I spoke earlier about the nature of owners but the nature of a sportsperson should be different. I mentioned this in my original post.

I’m aware of the point you’re making, but I’m not sure if you get where I’m coming from and please don’t start with the name calling and insults. It’s off putting. You can question my position and stance on this but not my intelligence. It doesn’t have to go down that route. I expect Wenger to have a burning passion to win trophies regardless of the stance the Board take. I also lose a lot of respect for him because he’s willing to compromise himself for these guys. It’s like watching your favorite artist completely sell out and pay lip service to the sharks in suites that own his record label. When you see your favorite artists or band pull such a stunt, you lose a lot of respect for them because it shows a lack of integrity. You know the nature of the beast and industry they have to work in, but you don’t blame the label, you blame the artist more because he’s sold out for the check. I feel the same way about Wenger if we’re going to talk about him ‘catering’ to a crowd. Again, he’s sportsperson and he should have an automatic burning desire to win trophies and build a championship winning team.

:gp:

Top post mate. :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

It's pretty obnoxious to assume 'the masses' are 'blisfully oblivious' to the Board and their 'sort'. I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered arrogant, pompous, pricks from time to time and just because we're not the type that rubs shoulders with these guys at some sort of annual black tie event, it doesn't mean we're unaware of them.

I get your argument, there is nothing wrong with my comprehension skills, what your saying is pretty basic but slightly long winded and elobarate.

Yes, both are to blame, but I'm looking in from a sporting perspective and i'm not cutting the Board slack, just saying I'm aware of their 'type'. It is very unlikely for things to change at Board level. In fact, we've seen a dramatic change in ownership, yet we're still heading in the same direction. It is very unlikey that we'll find an owner that will focus on football and winning without thinking about profits and financial gain. Whoever owns the club will be of that 'type'. It's the nature of the beast. We're probably one of the few clubs that gets praised for the way we're run and the staff we have, so we're not the worst out there. Not saying it should be excused just saying you can't change a leopards spots, it's the nature of football ownership and any sort of corporation to be fair.

We can change ownership, but I'd still have a problem with Wenger not teaching his players to defend and playing people out of position. This is why I say it's easier to change the coach. Look at it this way, when Wenger arrived, our aspirations as a club changed dramatically. With a new coach, we could possibly see the same thing. But, you are right, there is no point in going into this if the Board won't fire Wenger. But as I've said before, they've had no reason to fire him before and this is the first sign of real trouble. He has always delivered CL football so they won't rock the boat. We will see what happens if the shit hits the fan this season.

But besides the managerial mistakes from Wenger, I have a real problem with the way he 'caters' to the Board and the way people on here overlook it. This is probably why he gets 'bashed' on here so much. I don't get the sense that he's in there having to fight against the system to get his way. We don't know what's happening behind closed doors but I've got a problem when Wenger endorses the Boards policies. Stuff like promoting the rise in ticket prices so we can 'compete' with the likes of Chelsea, practically opening the door for players like RVP and mentally preparing the fans to lose another one of our vital assets, lying to the fans about signing players…okay, I get your point about not biting the hand that feeds you but if we can agree that the Board and their ‘type’ are ‘devious and cunning’ then Wenger fits in. Why is he championing their policies and ethos so hard? I can’t respect that and I guess it’s the same for a few other posters. If we had the sense that he was in there having to hold his corner and battling against this culture we have, I’d have more tolerance, but it seems to me like he’s swimming along with the tide. He’s paid by them to do so, but he doesn’t have to. When Villa tried to pull a similar stunt with Martin O’Neil, he walked because his sporting ambition wouldn’t allow him to tolerate such a culture.

It’s the same for the players. They leave us because they realize the club has no ambition and Wenger is pushing in the direction of financial prudence and responsibility. In my opinion, a sports person should be looking to improve his team and pushing that agenda on to the Board, but it looks like one way traffic from where I’m standing and the players aren’t blind either. Yes, we can blame the Board and Wenger but I see it as Wenger’s responsibility to push the teams agenda and fight to hold on to players, not preach financial prudence so much that it hurts the team. He’s a sportsperson and winning is the ultimate objective. I spoke earlier about the nature of owners but the nature of a sportsperson should be different. I mentioned this in my original post.

I’m aware of the point you’re making, but I’m not sure if you get where I’m coming from and please don’t start with the name calling and insults. It’s off putting. You can question my position and stance on this but not my intelligence. It doesn’t have to go down that route. I expect Wenger to have a burning passion to win trophies regardless of the stance the Board take. I also lose a lot of respect for him because he’s willing to compromise himself for these guys. It’s like watching your favorite artist completely sell out and pay lip service to the sharks in suites that own his record label. When you see your favorite artists or band pull such a stunt, you lose a lot of respect for them because it shows a lack of integrity. You know the nature of the beast and industry they have to work in, but you don’t blame the label, you blame the artist more because he’s sold out for the check. I feel the same way about Wenger if we’re going to talk about him ‘catering’ to a crowd. Again, he’s sportsperson and he should have an automatic burning desire to win trophies and build a championship winning team.

I'm not going to comment on your position or stance, it's your intelligence I question!

[fakeyank]

:haha:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Jeez why do I even bother wasting my time like this, I’ll never know.This.

Why waste more time? Pearls and swine is the phrase that springs to mind.


And you've got the nerve to question my overall understanding of his post. :lol:

You haven't got a clue what he said, admit it.
Cool story bro.

Next time I feel a burning need to prove my cognitive faculties to some whoever on the internet, you'll be the first to know.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not going to comment on your position or stance, it's your intelligence I question!

I'll forgive you for that shot. :lol:

I usually agree with your viewpoint, but not on this one. Wenger should have some sense of pride as sportsperson and push for a winning team even if it means butting heads with the guys that cut the checks. He doesn't appear to be doing that. It's disappointing to watch.

[Super Ghel]

I'm not going to comment on your position or stance, it's your intelligence I question!

:haha: Nearly chocked myself reading that. Such flawless perfection.

[Super Ghel]

This.

Why waste more time? Pearls and swine is the phrase that springs to mind.



:good: Thanks for the reminder. Was tempted to deliver another knockout blow, but as you rightly said a pointless waste. And the novelty does wear off quite quickly.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

:yawn:

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal chief executive Ivan Gazidis believes the club can remain at the top of the game for potentially 20 years, regardless of what financial fair play stipulates.

Financial fair play was introduced by Uefa President Michel Platini to make sure European clubs are handling their finances effectively where teams could potentially be banned from the Champions League or Europa League as a consequence.

The Gunners CEO insists that the club will not be changing what they do, however, and believes that Arsenal's financial model is one that all clubs strive to match.

He told Sky Sports News: "We believe in what we’re doing outside financial fair play so we’re not relying on any kind of rules nor are we really changing what we do.

"We believe that what we do is the right thing to do for our football club. This idea of a sustainable model means that we can look forward with real confidence and say Arsenal will be at the top of the game five years from now, 10 years from now and 20 years from now.

"We don’t rely on anybody but ourselves for our own success and we stand on our own two feet.

"That’s a very powerful position for us and something that we believe in regardless of what Uefa do, regardless of what financial fair play entails.

"I think all clubs want to try to get themselves to that position. Every club I speak to wants to ultimately be in that position even the ones that are spending enormous amounts of money today want to move their clubs to that position."

Gazidis went on to state that the Premier League is proving to be difficult for potential investors to get involved with and suggested that football must come up with a new model to attract a bigger pool of prospective owners.

He added: "What we're seeing increasingly is fewer and fewer potential owners able to own a Premier League team.

"More and more people finding themselves stuck and thinking 'how can I compete in this environment' and we're seeing a potential pool of owners, now, it's so small, that you're looking around the world for a handful of individuals that can be a benefactor for these clubs at these amounts of money.

"The question the game has to ask itself is 'is that healthy?' or would it be more healthy, which I believe, if we could find a model where somebody could invest in football without losing their shirt."


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/11/21/2768187/arsenal-chief-executive-ivan-gazidis-were-in-a-position

Yay we'll be at the top of the football tree in 20 years

You guys are too impatient

[fakeyank]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/11/21/2768187/arsenal-chief-executive-ivan-gazidis-were-in-a-position

Yay we'll be at the top of the football tree in 20 years

You guys are too impatient

The board is the only reason this club is afloat!

Kroenke :bow:

Gazidis :bow:

PHW :bow:

Great footballing tactics deployed by the board as well, in the last few weeks! :good:

[LDG]

He's right tbf.

[Flavs]

He's right tbf.

Indeed, if there is a correlation between income and success, and there clearly is, we are solid...solid as a rock.

[IBK]

He's right tbf.

Totally - and well put too.