Arsenal AGM

[LDG]

Supposedly today....anyone seen any feedback or reaction? :unsure:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Supposedly today....anyone seen any feedback or reaction? :unsure:Probably won't start to trickle through till after it actually happens.

11:30am tomorrow.

[LDG]

Probably won't start to trickle through till after it actually happens.

11:30am tomorrow.

Oh.

I heard it was 26th....or so some of the bloggers were saying :unsure:

Ah well.

I'll wait til tomorrow then.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Oh.

I heard it was 26th....or so some of the bloggers were saying :unsure:

Ah well.

I'll wait til tomorrow then.Probably some bloggers got their wires crossed.

It's all in the year end financial report.


The annual general meeting will be held at Emirates Stadium, London, N7, on Thursday 27 October 2011 at 11.30 am.

[Letters]

Are Zimm and Arsenal's Best Fan FY going?

[IBK]

Are Zimm and Arsenal's Best Fan FY going?

stop it - you're too old for this....

[LDG]

stop it - you're too old for this....

That's what they said about, finding a woman, falling in love, getting hitched, planning a wedding and going balls deep. And look what happened.

Letters: Re-writing the rules as he goes.

[Kano]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Arsenal-AGM-The-12-key-questions-fans-want-Silent-Stan-to-answer-including-investment-ticket-prices-and-support-for-Arsene-Wenger-by-John-Cross-article821028.html

[GP]

Are Zimm and Arsenal's Best Fan FY going?

Zimm going to Arsenal? :lol:


First time for everything I suppose...

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's what they said about, finding a woman, falling in love, getting hitched, planning a wedding and going balls deep. And look what happened.

Letters: Re-writing the rules as he goes.

:haha:

I kill you.

[fakeyank]

Are Zimm and Arsenal's Best Fan FY going?

Yup, I am definitely going. I want to kick AW in the nuts

[Joker]

I hope the board get a grilling because of the way they've covertly asset stripped the club.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Covertly? :sarcy:

[Joker]

Covertly? :sarcy:

lol good point.

[Özim]

Supposedly today....anyone seen any feedback or reaction? :unsure:
Here's a summary:

- Finance are looking good we're making a nice tidy profit and the business model is working well
- Wenger is in talks about a new contract, the board are keen to tie him down as there's noone else who could do such a great job
- We're in line to be competitive by 2052, 10 years ahead of schedule
- The debt is being payed off nicely and we're in line to pay that off 5 years early
- On the playing side things are going well, we're on an unbeaten run and are very competitive on the pitch
- There is money for Wenger to spend, but only when he feels it's necessary on those super quality players
- We're 2% away from domination
- New hotdogs to be introduced
- Pies are going up by 5.2%, this isn't a price increase just in line with inflation
- We're not happy that we haven't won a trophy recently but you have to be realistic with Man City and Chelsea around, but we're pleased that we play entertaining football for the fans

[Letters]

Yup, I am definitely going. I want to kick AW in the nuts

Take a step-ladder :coffee:

[PGFC]

Yup, I am definitely going. I want to kick AW in the nuts


Take a step-ladder :coffee:

Lending him yours?

[Super Ghel]

Take a step-ladder :coffee:

Not necessary if that was merely a cover up to his clever ploy for some savoury Kroenke nuts. :coffee:

[LDG]

Here's a summary:

- Finance are looking good we're making a nice tidy profit and the business model is working well
- Wenger is in talks about a new contract, the board are keen to tie him down as there's noone else who could do such a great job
- We're in line to be competitive by 2052, 10 years ahead of schedule
- The debt is being payed off nicely and we're in line to pay that off 5 years early
- On the playing side things are going well, we're on an unbeaten run and are very competitive on the pitch
- There is money for Wenger to spend, but only when he feels it's necessary on those super quality players
- We're 2% away from domination
- New hotdogs to be introduced
- Pies are going up by 5.2%, this isn't a price increase just in line with inflation
- We're not happy that we haven't won a trophy recently but you have to be realistic with Man City and Chelsea around, but we're pleased that we play entertaining football for the fans

So. What would you do with the club if you were in Stan's shoes. Be brief, and no need to say "sack Wenger" because I think we know that.

Seriously, with the majority stake in the club, how would you change the club. I'm interested, because I want to see whether your logic regarding the football side of things, balances with the financial.

[Power n Glory]

So. What would you do with the club if you were in Stan's shoes. Be brief, and no need to say "sack Wenger" because I think we know that.

Seriously, with the majority stake in the club, how would you change the club. I'm interested, because I want to see whether your logic regarding the football side of things, balances with the financial.

That question should be open everybody.

[Özim]

So. What would you do with the club if you were in Stan's shoes. Be brief, and no need to say "sack Wenger" because I think we know that.

Seriously, with the majority stake in the club, how would you change the club. I'm interested, because I want to see whether your logic regarding the football side of things, balances with the financial.

1) Get rid of the we're doing well mentality we have at the club (losers attitude), winning is the aim and everything else has to be considered a disappointment, if we don't win we don't win but let's no celebrate coming 4th

2) Make some money available to bring in "quality" players, not kids, not nobodies but more established players who know what it takes to win, perhaps include leaders in this

3) Highlight the need to fix the problem areas urgently by whatever means necessary (if top coaches are required bring them in)

4) Back to basics approach where players must do the basics well, pretty football is desirable but must come 2nd to a players ability to do a job in their chosen position

5) Discourage playing players out of position except when necessary, if players are needed for a particular position find specialist players for those positions

6) Point out that it's the managers job to manage and that he doesn't need to worry about the money side

7) A balancing of youth vs experience, signing youths is fine in moderation but not instead of experience

8) Demand a plan of action for how we plan to move forward to achieve our goals in the next 5 years

[LDG]

1) Get rid of the we're doing well mentality we have at the club (losers attitude), winning is the aim and everything else has to be considered a disappointment, if we don't win we don't win but let's no celebrate coming 4th

2) Make some money available to bring in "quality" players, not kids, not nobodies but more established players who know what it takes to win, perhaps include leaders in this

3) Highlight the need to fix the problem areas urgently by whatever means necessary (if top coaches are required bring them in)

4) Back to basics approach where players must do the basics well, pretty football is desirable but must come 2nd to a players ability to do a job in their chosen position

5) Discourage playing players out of position except when necessary, if players are needed for a particular position find specialist players for those positions

6) Point out that it's the managers job to manage and that he doesn't need to worry about the money side

7) A balancing of youth vs experience, signing youths is fine in moderation but not instead of experience

8) Demand a plan of action for how we plan to move forward to achieve our goals in the next 5 years

I must say, that sounds more like what I want to read, rather than constant digs. Thanks for this :good:

I agree on pretty much all your points.

My question to you now, is, should Stan demand this kind of action, which I think we all know is warranted, could Wenger do this job?

My argument here, is that he is avery good manager, regardless of what you think of him. You, yourself, must agknowledge some of the things he brings to the party. I know it wears thin on you, but he has acheived more, consistently, than many other managers with much more money behind them ('Arry for example).

Therefore, if he were to change his ways because Stan dictates that to him, would you then support the geezer?

And also, if Wenger is the problem (as you beleive), why have you raised all those points, which, SHOULD be implemented and SHOULD be dictated to Wenger by the board.

By that logic, it must be the board being weak / greedy / whatever, to let Wenger get away with it.....

[Özim]

I must say, that sounds more like what I want to read, rather than constant digs. Thanks for this :good:

I agree on pretty much all your points.

My question to you now, is, should Stan demand this kind of action, which I think we all know is warranted, could Wenger do this job?

My argument here, is that he is avery good manager, regardless of what you think of him. You, yourself, must agknowledge some of the things he brings to the party. I know it wears thin on you, but he has acheived more, consistently, than many other managers with much more money behind them ('Arry for example).

Therefore, if he were to change his ways because Stan dictates that to him, would you then support the geezer?

And also, if Wenger is the problem (as you beleive), why have you raised all those points, which, SHOULD be implemented and SHOULD be dictated to Wenger by the board.

By that logic, it must be the board being weak / greedy / whatever, to let Wenger get away with it.....
If we put these changes in place and it was clear Wenger was making these changes then yes I'd be behind him, what riles me about him is this almost oblivious approach that seems to keep us in a rut, he doesn't accept that things don't work and hasn't really shown much interest in changing things.

I believe the board are happy because they are making money and that's their incentive, I have a real problem with this and I make no bones about the fact they take a lot of the blame, but Wenger also just goes along with it and goes further than this by supporting/defending this approach.

He's clearly happy with it or else he wouldn't need to publicly come out with the things he does...he seems to get adequate pride from us doing well economically that he doesn't feel the need to go the extra yard to achieve success, he's had a long time to make changes now and show that he's adaptable IMO it's obvious can't or won't adapt.

I ask the question would Mourinho or Ferguson just take their 6 million a year and then accept they can't win, I doubt it I'm pretty sure they'd be doing everything they could to win and wouldn't be overly worried about the financial side (which isn't a managers job after all).

[LDG]

Fair do's.

I can't make up my mind. Haven't been able to for some time now. There always seems to be this sense that he has the ability to turn things around, but frustratingly in recent years, hasn't gone the extra steps to make it so.

But I've also come to the conclusion, that an intelligent man such as himself, surely can't be as deluded as it appears, and that there has to be more to it.

And if there is more to it, then bringing in another manager won't change a thing. If the same policy of profiteering on player sales is thrust (teehee) on another manager, then we're in for more of the same, possibly worse. Because I still believe that Wenger can find players on the cheap that many other manager can't.

That said. Another manager may bring in more dicipline, that Wenger seems to shun.

Difficult one, and that's why I don't think swinging towards any extreme is particularly right. And that's why I believe we just have to get behind the boys and give the players (if nobody else) as much support as possible, perhaps rather than dismissing some decent results, or bemoaning our lack of Vieira's, Henry's and Piresessss's(?).

Just my take.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

1) Get rid of the we're doing well mentality we have at the club (losers attitude), winning is the aim and everything else has to be considered a disappointment, if we don't win we don't win but let's no celebrate coming 4th

2) Make some money available to bring in "quality" players, not kids, not nobodies but more established players who know what it takes to win, perhaps include leaders in this

3) Highlight the need to fix the problem areas urgently by whatever means necessary (if top coaches are required bring them in)

4) Back to basics approach where players must do the basics well, pretty football is desirable but must come 2nd to a players ability to do a job in their chosen position

5) Discourage playing players out of position except when necessary, if players are needed for a particular position find specialist players for those positions

6) Point out that it's the managers job to manage and that he doesn't need to worry about the money side

7) A balancing of youth vs experience, signing youths is fine in moderation but not instead of experience

8) Demand a plan of action for how we plan to move forward to achieve our goals in the next 5 years#

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If we put these changes in place and it was clear Wenger was making these changes then yes I'd be behind him, what riles me about him is this almost oblivious approach that seems to keep us in a rut, he doesn't accept that things don't work and hasn't really shown much interest in changing things.

I believe the board are happy because they are making money and that's their incentive, I have a real problem with this and I make no bones about the fact they take a lot of the blame, but Wenger also just goes along with it and goes further than this by supporting/defending this approach.

He's clearly happy with it or else he wouldn't need to publicly come out with the things he does...he seems to get adequate pride from us doing well economically that he doesn't feel the need to go the extra yard to achieve success, he's had a long time to make changes now and show that he's adaptable IMO it's obvious can't or won't adapt.

I ask the question would Mourinho or Ferguson just take their 6 million a year and then accept they can't win, I doubt it I'm pretty sure they'd be doing everything they could to win and wouldn't be overly worried about the financial side (which isn't a managers job after all).

No they would not, but with a board like ours would they have a choice? I could not see AW going to Madrid and not spending or not winning a title for 6 seasons and be in the job or at UTD or even at Chelsea.

But could see Jose M or Fergie remain in a job here for 6 years if they don't win anything in that time.

Jose is a winner we all know that but so is Aw i still belive even if he comes across as someone who does not want to win or beatern all the time. I agree he should no have a happy to accpet 2nd best attitude its wrong. and he should fight the board if he feels the team needs defending.

How ever to say the man is clueless is wrong, its more he is stubbon if anything, only him addmiting his mistakes (which i think he is startng to do), or the board having a word in his ear will change things for the better.

so we can the get the AW we all know and love back.

my problem is the club as a whole needs to stop lying to the fans for once treat us with repect and let us know whats going on. Lets hope stan does that.

[Özim]

No they would not, but with a board like ours would they have a choice?
Maybe they wouldn't but I'd reckon they'd fallout with the board and leave in that case, they'd most likely take a stand and not agree with it at the very least.

[Coney]

I ask the question would Mourinho or Ferguson just take their 6 million a year and then accept they can't win, I doubt it I'm pretty sure they'd be doing everything they could to win and wouldn't be overly worried about the financial side (which isn't a managers job after all).

The manager might not always make the direct financial decision but if he does not take it into account, he is getting nowhere. Ferguson is, I suspect, more prepared to pay the extra couple of million than Wenger, but I'm sure he still does some sums to see how the budget will stretch. Mourinho certainly didn't have to worry about it with the chavs and probably doesn't have to much at Real either, but that is not the norm.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Maybe they wouldn't but I'd reckon they'd fallout with the board and leave in that case, they'd most likely take a stand and not agree with it at the very least.

Your right, Who's to say AW does not agree with all the boards decision and some fallout has taken place. I suppose we will never know till he leaves

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fair do's.

I can't make up my mind. Haven't been able to for some time now. There always seems to be this sense that he has the ability to turn things around, but frustratingly in recent years, hasn't gone the extra steps to make it so.

But I've also come to the conclusion, that an intelligent man such as himself, surely can't be as deluded as it appears, and that there has to be more to it.

And if there is more to it, then bringing in another manager won't change a thing. If the same policy of profiteering on player sales is thrust (teehee) on another manager, then we're in for more of the same, possibly worse. Because I still believe that Wenger can find players on the cheap that many other manager can't.

That said. Another manager may bring in more dicipline, that Wenger seems to shun.Difficult one, and that's why I don't think swinging towards any extreme is particularly right. And that's why I believe we just have to get behind the boys and give the players (if nobody else) as much support as possible, perhaps rather than dismissing some decent results, or bemoaning our lack of Vieira's, Henry's and Piresessss's(?).

Just my take.

Not if the board let wenger bring in his own sucessor, it be someone like him maybe another "yes man" as some put it to the board.

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER has called on Arsenal's supporters and shareholders to stay united behind his philosophy.

The Gunners boss, who celebrated 15 years in charge of the club earlier this season, has endured one of the most testing spells of his tenure over the past few months.

But the Frenchman told the club's Annual General Meeting that they must not lose their faith in his methods.

Wenger said: "I believe the values we defend are highly defendable.

"We want to do things with class and be very brave. Courage is a quality I admire, because it is highly needed in the modern world. These players are ready to fight. Trust us.

"I can see a lot of fear and discontent among you — and I can understand that because we live in a world where we fight with people who have extremely high resources.

"We can compete by trying to be intelligent and to be united, because football is very difficult to be consistent and we have been more consistent than anybody in the world in the last 15 years."

The Arsenal manager added: "To stay at the top, top level we have to stay united.

"That does not mean not I am not to be criticised, or the board — we accept that, but we have to show to the outside we are united. If you are not, then you have no chance."


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3897606/Arsenal-news-Arsene-Wenger-says-Arsenal-must-stay-united.html


Stan Kroenke has addressed the fans and media for the first time since completing his takeover of Arsenal, and has pledged to stay at the club for a long time, believing everything is in place for success.

The American tycoon says he developed his interest in Arsenal over time despite initially having no plans to move into football, and praised manager Arsene Wenger despite a tough start to the season.

“What a wonderful club,” he said as he addressed Arsenal’s annual general meeting.

“We are involved extensively in sports in the United States and had lots of opportunities to involve ourselves in lots of clubs around Europe and in the Premier League.

“We did not have an interest, but as we became involved with Arsenal in a commercial undertaking in Denver, I became more interested.

“Arsenal has all the elements that you need to have success in this kind of business.

“[The club] has tremendous management at the top, a wonderful manager on the pitch who makes great decisions in regard to personnel, and a tremendous following with the supporters.

“With all those things in place, it was an easy decision for us to get more involved.

“We are glad to be here, are happy with the direction of the club and are here for the long term - we love London, you had better get used to seeing us, because we will be around.”

The club’s chief executive, Ivan Gazidis, delivered the opening address to the meeting. In it he maintained that “being a force” in the Premier League and in continental competition was still the Gunners’ “main objective”.

“We have a sound foundation to move forwards. Standing still has never been an option,” he added.

Arsenal sit in seventh place in the Premier League, having picked up in form after a poor start.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/10/27/2730426/arsenal-has-all-the-elements-you-need-to-have-success-owner-stan-

Same old shit

[Fist of Lehmann]

Doesn't tell the whole story, apparently a stormy affair.

Some tweets (Tim Payton of the AST, James Olley Chief Football Correspondent for the Evening Standard):


Glyn Taylor of AST Board asks for equity injection to make up shortfall in commercial. Club say no & will stick to only fans putting in


PHW says Gazidis passed all the criteria for his £600k bonus on top of £1m basic salary. Doesn't say what they were.


Shareholder calls for Peter Hill Wood to stand down and bring back David Dein to work with Wenger. Big applause. PHW says no plans to go


Hill-Wood in response: "I am sorry to disappoint you but I have no intention of standing down. I regard it as a privilege to be chairman."

Also:

Peter Hill-Wood informs the room that he still has his World War I Lee Enfield rifle and is not afraid to use it.

:lol:

[LDG]

:haha:

Blimey.

Now THAT is more like it.

Glad some of the shareholders aren't pussy-footing anymore!

[Ollie the Optimist]

1) Get rid of the we're doing well mentality we have at the club (losers attitude), winning is the aim and everything else has to be considered a disappointment, if we don't win we don't win but let's no celebrate coming 4th

2) Make some money available to bring in "quality" players, not kids, not nobodies but more established players who know what it takes to win, perhaps include leaders in this

3) Highlight the need to fix the problem areas urgently by whatever means necessary (if top coaches are required bring them in)

4) Back to basics approach where players must do the basics well, pretty football is desirable but must come 2nd to a players ability to do a job in their chosen position

5) Discourage playing players out of position except when necessary, if players are needed for a particular position find specialist players for those positions

6) Point out that it's the managers job to manage and that he doesn't need to worry about the money side

7) A balancing of youth vs experience, signing youths is fine in moderation but not instead of experience

8) Demand a plan of action for how we plan to move forward to achieve our goals in the next 5 years

the only point i disagree with is number 5. i dont htink stan or the board would have a good enough football knowledge of how that works and what is best for the team. thats what wenger is here for. otherwise all good

[IBK]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3897606/Arsenal-news-Arsene-Wenger-says-Arsenal-must-stay-united.html


[QUOTE]ARSENE WENGER has called on Arsenal's supporters and shareholders to stay united behind his philosophy.

The Gunners boss, who celebrated 15 years in charge of the club earlier this season, has endured one of the most testing spells of his tenure over the past few months.

But the Frenchman told the club's Annual General Meeting that they must not lose their faith in his methods.

Wenger said: "I believe the values we defend are highly defendable.

"We want to do things with class and be very brave. Courage is a quality I admire, because it is highly needed in the modern world. These players are ready to fight. Trust us.

"I can see a lot of fear and discontent among you — and I can understand that because we live in a world where we fight with people who have extremely high resources.

"We can compete by trying to be intelligent and to be united, because football is very difficult to be consistent and we have been more consistent than anybody in the world in the last 15 years."

The Arsenal manager added: "To stay at the top, top level we have to stay united.

"That does not mean not I am not to be criticised, or the board — we accept that, but we have to show to the outside we are united. If you are not, then you have no chance."



Problem is that Wenger is 110% right in what he says - yet it is his messianistic approach that I believe is hurting the club.

...and what is the point of having a billionaire owner if he won't fucking invest in the club?

[Ollie the Optimist]

what i learnt from today is that silent stan is just that, wenger deeply cares about the club and is determined to put everything right. hill wood doesnt care about the fans but just the money and can quite frankly fuck off. wenger was honest at least today, hill wood wasnt and ignored questions etc. makes me put blame at board not wenger

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ay-united.html



[QUOTE] ARSENE WENGER has called on Arsenal's supporters and shareholders to stay united behind his philosophy.

The Gunners boss, who celebrated 15 years in charge of the club earlier this season, has endured one of the most testing spells of his tenure over the past few months.

But the Frenchman told the club's Annual General Meeting that they must not lose their faith in his methods.

Wenger said: "I believe the values we defend are highly defendable.

"We want to do things with class and be very brave. Courage is a quality I admire, because it is highly needed in the modern world. These players are ready to fight. Trust us.

"I can see a lot of fear and discontent among you — and I can understand that because we live in a world where we fight with people who have extremely high resources.

"We can compete by trying to be intelligent and to be united, because football is very difficult to be consistent and we have been more consistent than anybody in the world in the last 15 years."

The Arsenal manager added: "To stay at the top, top level we have to stay united.

"That does not mean not I am not to be criticised, or the board — we accept that, but we have to show to the outside we are united. If you are not, then you have no chance."

Interesting,

[Cripps_orig]

Its worrying that he wants us to unite behind his failed philosophy when he should be changing it instead.

Time for a change

[Ollie the Optimist]

Its worrying that he wants us to unite behind his failed philosophy when he should be changing it instead.

Time for a change

think he wants us to unite as a club and support the team instead actually. which is a fair point, he says you can moan at him but when the games come etc, support the team and forget all taht has happened before. i agree

[IBK]

think he wants us to unite as a club and support the team instead actually. which is a fair point, he says you can moan at him but when the games come etc, support the team and forget all taht has happened before. i agree

Seconded

[Power n Glory]

The Board and Wenger are dancing to the same tune. Wenger is no victim and that image of him being helpless can be laid to rest.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Seconded
Thirded

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The Board and Wenger are dancing to the same tune. Wenger is no victim and that image of him being helpless can be laid to rest.

yes and no but its was PHW who more or less stuck two fingers up to the fans/Shareholders again to seems at least Wenger was honest

[Syn]

Meaningless garbage. We want numbers and facts. And we are not getting numbers and facts because of this:


The Arsenal manager added: "To stay at the top, top level we have to stay united.

"That does not mean not I am not to be criticised, or the board — we accept that, but we have to show to the outside we are united. If you are not, then you have no chance."

Why? What difference does it make to remain 'united'? Wenger won't say exactly what the board are doing or how much money he has available to strengthen the squad because they want to present a 'united' front. Sometimes an under-performing player needs to be strung out in public to show that there are consequences. This obsession with 'class' (as he calls it) has gone on far too long. Everyone knows that everything's not right at the club - he, himself, says everything's not right. There is absolutely nothing classy in the fake smiles.


These players are ready to fight. Trust us.

No. That's not how it works. They need to show it - a massive performance on Sunday with every player seen to scrap for every 50/50 and run themselves to the ground for 90 mins regardless of the result.


"I can see a lot of fear and discontent among you — and I can understand that because we live in a world where we fight with people who have extremely high resources.

It really isn't. The 'discontent' stems from the fact that we still don't know how to deal with a basic set-piece. We don't need four £20m defenders to be able to do that. We need proper management and organisation to make the best of what we have.

We are getting a politician's answers. Honesty clearly has no place here.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Meaningless garbage. We want numbers and facts. And we are not getting numbers and facts because of this:



Why? What difference does it make to remain 'united'? Wenger won't say exactly what the board are doing or how much money he has available to strengthen the squad because they want to present a 'united' front. Sometimes an under-performing player needs to be strung out in public to show that there are consequences. This obsession with 'class' (as he calls it) has gone on far too long. Everyone knows that everything's not right at the club - he, himself, says everything's not right. There is absolutely nothing classy in the fake smiles.



No. That's not how it works. They need to show it - a massive performance on Sunday with every player seen to scrap for every 50/50 and run themselves to the ground for 90 mins regardless of the result.



It really isn't. The 'discontent' stems from the fact that we still don't know how to deal with a basic set-piece. We don't need four £20m defenders to be able to do that. We need proper management and organisation to make the best of what we have.

We are getting a politician's answers. Honesty clearly has no place here.

:gp:

Same old same old tbh

[Power n Glory]

yes and no but its was PHW who more or less stuck two fingers up to the fans/Shareholders again to seems at least Wenger was honest

Hmmm...thin line there. PHW was honest as well.

Wenger might as well have just said, "ain't shit changing round here, back my philosophy, you're free to bitch and moan...well it ain't free...but you know what I mean...we need you're funds/support."

But he just went about it in a nicer way. Nothing is changing and that might as well be a two fingers up as well.

[Power n Glory]

Meaningless garbage. We want numbers and facts. And we are not getting numbers and facts because of this:



Why? What difference does it make to remain 'united'? Wenger won't say exactly what the board are doing or how much money he has available to strengthen the squad because they want to present a 'united' front. Sometimes an under-performing player needs to be strung out in public to show that there are consequences. This obsession with 'class' (as he calls it) has gone on far too long. Everyone knows that everything's not right at the club - he, himself, says everything's not right. There is absolutely nothing classy in the fake smiles.



No. That's not how it works. They need to show it - a massive performance on Sunday with every player seen to scrap for every 50/50 and run themselves to the ground for 90 mins regardless of the result.



It really isn't. The 'discontent' stems from the fact that we still don't know how to deal with a basic set-piece. We don't need four £20m defenders to be able to do that. We need proper management and organisation to make the best of what we have.

We are getting a politician's answers. Honesty clearly has no place here.

Spot on.

[Cripps_orig]

Like i said, same old shit

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hmmm...thin line there. PHW was honest as well.

Wenger might as well have just said, "ain't shit changing round here, back my philosophy, you're free to bitch and moan...well it ain't free...but you know what I mean...we need you're funds/support."

But he just went about it in a nicer way. Nothing is changing and that might as well be a two fingers up as well.

Yeah i Guess, NQ was right the board just seem intent on making more money for themselves. Wengerless or not.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah i Guess, NQ was right the board just seem intent on making more money for themselves. Wengerless or not.

Why is that shocking? You think they came into this lose money and go bust?

I work for a very stingy company. They are mean bastards. But if I go to my boss and tell him our department needs new PC's because the current lot are slow and keep crashing, I expect my boss to speak to the powers at be to invest in new models and let them know that it will boost morale and efficiency. I don't expect to come back with some keep the faith shit, trust me and work harder. He should be fighting for the workers interest and benefits. With Wenger, it's like he has his priorities all messed up.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Also apparently for the first time ever there was no Q&A section at the end.

Bastard fans ask too many awkward questions.

[Super Ghel]

Glyn Taylor of AST Board asks for equity injection to make up shortfall in commercial. Club say no & will stick to only fans putting in

Sounds like an episode of Little Britain and Computer Says Noo..


Peter Hill-Wood informs the room that he still has his World War I Lee Enfield rifle and is not afraid to use it.

:haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why is that shocking? You think they came into this lose money and go bust?

I work for a very stingy company. They are mean bastards. But if I go to my boss and tell him our department needs new PC's because the current lot are slow and keep crashing, I expect my boss to speak to the powers at be to invest in new models and let them know that it will boost morale and efficiency. I don't expect to come back with some keep the faith shit, trust me and work harder. He should be fighting for the workers interest and benefits. With Wenger, it's like he has his priorities all messed up.

Yeah because give 20 grand for laptops and give 200 million to buy players are the same thing, but i get what you mean, there is no way to know what wenger asked for unless you was there.

Who's to know what your boss would do its easy to say he'd fight but he may feel as he is payed by these lot and we are in a reccission he will back them for job safety.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah because give 20 grand for laptops and give 200 million to buy players are the same thing, but i get what you mean, there is no way to know what wenger asked for unless you was there.

Who's to know what your boss would do its easy to say he'd fight but he may feel as he is payed by these lot and we are in a reccission he will back them for job safety.

If he's backing them for job safety then he's just as guilty and I'd be looking to jump ship. I can understand why our players want out if they see this sort of behaviour on a daily.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hill-Wood in response: "I am sorry to disappoint you but I have no intention of standing down. I regard it as a privilege to be chairman."

At least he hasn't ruled out shooting himself in the head, so I still have hope.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If he's backing them for job safety then he's just as guilty and I'd be looking to jump ship. I can understand why our players want out if they see this sort of behaviour on a daily.

fair enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

So in summary: "No, we won't put any money in. Yes, we want all your money." Nothing new or surprising here. Well maybe one, Stan's hint that something perked his interest in football and Arsenal in particular when previously there was no interest at all. Wonder what it could have been?

[Letters]

Also apparently for the first time ever there was no Q&A section at the end.

Bastard fans ask too many awkward questions.

This sort of thing worries me. It's like how they're no longer giving out the attendance figures as they're getting lower and it was increasingly farcical them reading out 60,000 people when thousands hadn't turned up but were still being counted.
These people should be accountable and increasingly sticking two fingers up at the fans who, one way or another, are paying their wages.

[Niall_Quinn]

This sort of thing worries me. It's like how they're no longer giving out the attendance figures as they're getting lower and it was increasingly farcical them reading out 60,000 people when thousands hadn't turned up but were still being counted.
These people should be accountable and increasingly sticking two fingers up at the fans who, one way or another, are paying their wages.

There are only 2 significant shareholders now, soon to be 1. The rest of the executive is there by the grace of Stan, a bloke who knows fuck all about football. It's not surprising things have changed considerably. The slimy cunt knows the majority of the fans won't abandon the club. What else matters?

[LDG]

So in summary: "No, we won't put any money in. Yes, we want all your money." Nothing new or surprising here. Well maybe one, Stan's hint that something perked his interest in football and Arsenal in particular when previously there was no interest at all. Wonder what it could have been?

The pies.

It's all about the pies.

Nomonomnom.

[Özim]

PHW is a tw*t and always has been, I dream of the day someone like Dein get's involved again and throws this good for nothing dinosaur out of the club....his contempt for the fans is unbearable.

At the end of the day only the fans walking and demaning he leaves will get rid of this chump.

[Cripps_orig]

Dein is Wengers best mate so hes the last person we need.

Agree on PHW though

[Power n Glory]

Dein introduced Stan Kronke as well. Dein is the reason why he's interested in Arsenal and football now.

But I think Dein coming back would be good for the club. Wenger has really gone down hill since Dein left.

[fakeyank]

The pies.

It's all about the pies.

Nomonomnom.

One of my biggest regrets other than not seeing us score a goal at Emirates was not being able to taste the pie. KK didnt leave his seat early enough, the brown c... :angry:

[Cripps_orig]

One of my biggest regrets other than not seeing us score a goal at Emirates was not being able to taste the pie. KK didnt leave his seat early enough, the brown c... :angry:What match did you go watch?

[fakeyank]

What match did you go watch?

Arsenal-Chelsea, 3-0 loss, season before last
Arsenal-City, 0-0, season before last again

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal-Chelsea, 3-0 loss, season before last
Arsenal-City, 0-0, season before last again

:pal:

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood has vowed to back manager Arsene Wenger in the transfer market to help the Gunners challenge for trophies.

Hill-Wood, however, has promised not to break the current business model that has made the Gunners one of the most profitable clubs in the Premier League.

The north London side have faced criticism in the past for not investing in quality on the field and for letting their top stars leave although over the summer Wenger splashed the cash bringing in a number of new faces to the Emirates.

Hill-Wood said at Arsenal’s Annual General Meeting that he will continue to back the manager and that the club still have the aim of competing for titles: "The provision of funds to invest in the team, which we did in the summer, we will do again.

"Let me make it clear that we are all seeking on-the-field success.

"Our goals are to compete for various titles and be in the Champions League, which we have done for 14 years. It remains our focus.

"We remain committed to our self-sustaining model, convinced that this is the right way forward for the club. It means our future is in our own hands."


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/10/27/2730991/arsenal-chairman-peter-hill-wood-vows-to-back-arsene-wenger

[Niall_Quinn]

The provision of funds to invest in the team, which we did in the summer, we will do again.

He's such a cunt. We made a fucking profit the last transfer window. Yeah, I'm bloody sure they are willing to do it again.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's such a cunt. We made a fucking profit the last transfer window. Yeah, I'm bloody sure they are willing to do it again.

Well thats enough about Wenger, what about PHW the Fat Controller.

[Power n Glory]

He's such a cunt. We made a fucking profit the last transfer window. Yeah, I'm bloody sure they are willing to do it again.

Have we actually ever made a loss instead of profit under Wenger? Hasn't this always been the case?

[Niall_Quinn]

We've never been "under" Wenger in terms of finances, he's the manager not the accountant or one of the directors. Under those bastards, we've made losses in the past but they key point is - they haven't. It's always been a bumper pay-day for those cunts, right up until they struck the mega-load. I could even live with that, but having the cunts hanging around telling the fans to fuck themselves is a little too much.

[Power n Glory]

We've never been "under" Wenger in terms of finances, he's the manager not the accountant or one of the directors. Under those bastards, we've made losses in the past but they key point is - they haven't. It's always been a bumper pay-day for those cunts, right up until they struck the mega-load. I could even live with that, but having the cunts hanging around telling the fans to fuck themselves is a little too much.

Wenger is telling you to get behind the system and support it. He's riding the gravy train as well.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger is telling you to get behind the system and support it. He's riding the gravy train as well.

Did someone say 'Groovy Train'?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In75rgGsp4A&ob=av3e :cool:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is telling you to get behind the system and support it. He's riding the gravy train as well.

They're all on the gravy train, players, the staff and the cunts in the boardroom alike. But not all are in the blacked out luxury compartment with the silver service and whores on tap.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Have we actually ever made a loss instead of profit under Wenger? Hasn't this always been the case?

This is what you need: http://www.arsenalreport.com/transfercentre/

Lists all our transfer spend back to 96-97.

In summary:

Emirates Era ~ Total £27,836,200
2011/2012 £12,388,200
2010/2011 -£8,914,000
2009/2010 £28,020,000
2008/2009 -£20,832,000
2007/2008 £17,640,000
2006/2007 -£466,000

Highbury Era ~ Total -£37,627,000
2005/2006 £395,000
2004/2005 -£3,936,000
2003/2004 -£15,046,000
2002/2003 -£2,210,000
2001/2002 -£18,976,000
2000/2001 £3,400,000
1999/2000 £8,630,000
1998/1999 -£9,780,000
1997/1998 -£1,064,000
1996/1997 £960,000


In short, yes we have made losses under Wenger, and no this has never been the case.

[Syn]

Emirates Era ~ Total £27,836,200
Highbury Era ~ Total -£37,627,000


Wow...the tightening of the purse strings is quite clear from that.

But aside from transfer fees, the biggest problem for us is competing with other clubs on wages offered. Some people here are annoyed we didn't bid a bit more for Mata...like there's a chance in hell he'd pick us over Chelsea. If we were able to offer top wages, we'd be able to make the type of signings that Liverpool make (who are able to attract names such as Torres and Suarez).

This summer was horrendous though. We had an amazing opportunity to rip everything up and start again. A change of system and a change in style. If we had used the Cesc-Nasri-Clichy money properly we'd be in a much more promising position.

[Power n Glory]

They're all on the gravy train, players, the staff and the cunts in the boardroom alike. But not all are in the blacked out luxury compartment with the silver service and whores on tap.

PHW - "That's how we roll, bitches" :lol:

[Power n Glory]

This is what you need: http://www.arsenalreport.com/transfercentre/

Lists all our transfer spend back to 96-97.

In summary:

Emirates Era ~ Total £27,836,200
2011/2012 £12,388,200
2010/2011 -£8,914,000
2009/2010 £28,020,000
2008/2009 -£20,832,000
2007/2008 £17,640,000
2006/2007 -£466,000

Highbury Era ~ Total -£37,627,000
2005/2006 £395,000
2004/2005 -£3,936,000
2003/2004 -£15,046,000
2002/2003 -£2,210,000
2001/2002 -£18,976,000
2000/2001 £3,400,000
1999/2000 £8,630,000
1998/1999 -£9,780,000
1997/1998 -£1,064,000
1996/1997 £960,000


In short, yes we have made losses under Wenger, and no this has never been the case.

So we have made losses. But look at the early days. He was able to build a title winning side without spending much money. He earned his rep with the Board. In 10 years only a loss of £37m! This has always been the plan. We built te youth academy to support this plan. Oh well

[Syn]

But look at the early days. He was able to build a title winning side without spending much money.

Before the era of Ambramovich and billionaire owners, it was a different (much easier) ball game.

Also worth noting the £10m+ paid for someone like Henry at that time is very different than paying £10m for a player right now. Inflation in football teams has spiralled.

[Power n Glory]

Before the era of Ambramovich and billionaire owners, it was a different (much easier) ball game.

Also worth noting the £10m+ paid for someone like Henry at that time is very different than paying £10m for a player right now. Inflation in football teams has spiralled.

Inflation is a factor but that's for players that get caught on the billionaire boys radars. Besides, Chamakh, Wenger is usually able to find good players in their mid 20's that slot well into our team. Signings like Hleb, Eduardo, Sagna, Vermaelen and recent guys like Santos, Park and Gervinho.

We should have been focussing on finding experienced playere hitting their peak instead of taking gambles on teens and trying to develop them into better players. Buying players like Vela, Diaby, Walcott, Denilson, Ramsey, Bendy...it has all back fired. Slowly, we've lost our talent because we've gambled on youth that have been slow to deliver. Wenger has been reluctant to buy central mid playere because he wanted to give players like Denilson and Diaby and in the end we end up losing out on both ends. Our experienced players don't want to babysit and carry the team anymore and the youth players turn out to be duds and we can't even sell them on for a healthy fee. We moved on Eduardo to give Vela a chance it has totally backfired. Now, we've gone out and done what we should have been doing from the get go. Find playere that are unheard of but ready to do a job for the first team and provide competition for places. It hasn't cost an arm and leg either.

Inflation is a factor, but playere like Park, Santos and Gervinho have always been around. We just haven't been going for them. Each summer, Wenger will look to add one or two players that's hitting their peak and ready for first team football. Sagna, Vermaelen, Eduardo....but it's not enough to add one first team player to the squad a season. It's taken him way too long to build a squad and he's placed too much hope on youth stepping up their game.

[Syn]

Inflation is a factor but that's for players that get caught on the billionaire boys radars. Besides, Chamakh, Wenger is usually able to find good players in their mid 20's that slot well into our team. Signings like Hleb, Eduardo, Sagna, Vermaelen and recent guys like Santos, Park and Gervinho.

We should have been focussing on finding experienced playere hitting their peak instead of taking gambles on teens and trying to develop them into better players. Buying players like Vela, Diaby, Walcott, Denilson, Ramsey, Bendy...it has all back fired. Slowly, we've lost our talent because we've gambled on youth that have been slow to deliver. Wenger has been reluctant to buy central mid playere because he wanted to give players like Denilson and Diaby and in the end we end up losing out on both ends. Our experienced players don't want to babysit and carry the team anymore and the youth players turn out to be duds and we can't even sell them on for a healthy fee. We moved on Eduardo to give Vela a chance it has totally backfired. Now, we've gone out and done what we should have been doing from the get go. Find playere that are unheard of but ready to do a job for the first team and provide competition for places. It hasn't cost an arm and leg either.

Inflation is a factor, but playere like Park, Santos and Gervinho have always been around. We just haven't been going for them. Each summer, Wenger will look to add one or two players that's hitting their peak and ready for first team football. Sagna, Vermaelen, Eduardo....but it's not enough to add one first team player to the squad a season. It's taken him way too long to build a squad and he's placed too much hope on youth stepping up their game.

I agree with most of that and it makes sense under a certain assumption...the same assumption that pretty much underlines everyone's view on Wenger. Some people think it's obvious and not debatable; some people think it's more complicated behind the scenes and that we are not seeing the truth. The assumption is about whether the 'youth project' was forced and whether Wenger really wouldn't choose to spend £20m if available on proven quality rather than stick with Denilson. I'm still not sure to this day.

But my point was simply that a £37m loss over the course of 9 seasons beginning in 1996 is a larger monetary hit than a £37m loss beginning from 2002 onwards. But I also agree that maybe inflation is more relevant for bigger targets...if we wanted top signings, it matters. If we wanted more smart signings, maybe a £10m signing like Vermaelen would've cost us £7m 5-7 years ago so not much difference.

I don't completely absolve Wenger from the fact that he was pinning his hopes on a Vela or Walcott-type signing turning into an Henry by now. I think it's a strategy that he had chosen. But I think his choice of potential strategies at the time weren't as large as some are making out.

[IBK]

Inflation is a factor but that's for players that get caught on the billionaire boys radars. Besides, Chamakh, Wenger is usually able to find good players in their mid 20's that slot well into our team. Signings like Hleb, Eduardo, Sagna, Vermaelen and recent guys like Santos, Park and Gervinho.

We should have been focussing on finding experienced playere hitting their peak instead of taking gambles on teens and trying to develop them into better players. Buying players like Vela, Diaby, Walcott, Denilson, Ramsey, Bendy...it has all back fired. Slowly, we've lost our talent because we've gambled on youth that have been slow to deliver. Wenger has been reluctant to buy central mid playere because he wanted to give players like Denilson and Diaby and in the end we end up losing out on both ends. Our experienced players don't want to babysit and carry the team anymore and the youth players turn out to be duds and we can't even sell them on for a healthy fee. We moved on Eduardo to give Vela a chance it has totally backfired. Now, we've gone out and done what we should have been doing from the get go. Find playere that are unheard of but ready to do a job for the first team and provide competition for places. It hasn't cost an arm and leg either.

Inflation is a factor, but playere like Park, Santos and Gervinho have always been around. We just haven't been going for them. Each summer, Wenger will look to add one or two players that's hitting their peak and ready for first team football. Sagna, Vermaelen, Eduardo....but it's not enough to add one first team player to the squad a season. It's taken him way too long to build a squad and he's placed too much hope on youth stepping up their game.

:gp: A good summary of what's gone wrong. Too much faith that players with potential will deliver on it. Every good manager (and by 'good' I mean those who have to operate in the normal world rather than the likes of Mancini or Villas Boas) will gamble on potential to an extent. In our case the principle has become too all consuming, because it has induced secondary gambles such as not buying cover for injured players; playing 'development' players out of position in a bid to make them more complete (and established players out of position in order to provide cover), and having to change the entire shape of the team to cope with project players' deficiencies.

And the fact that for all his eye for potential talent, Wenger has had a 'hit rate' that has generally been lower than that needed to sustain a winning side (the nearest he got was probably 2008/9) has meant a team building exercise that was doomed never to complete as his best players ran out of patience with it. He could encourage players to share his philosophy so far, but because he has the time that players do not have - they were never going to do so 100%.

The problem for Arsenal is that times have changed, and in the absence of a billionaire benefactor we have no choice but to try to build a successful side. But it has become much more difficult because the calibre of players that we are now able to attract - after so many trophyless years and with at least 3 teams so firmly established above us - and perhaps more importantly the calibre of players that will stay with the project rather than leave as soon as they improve - is self-limiting.

[Super Ghel]

So in summary: "No, we won't put any money in. Yes, we want all your money." Nothing new or surprising here. Well maybe one, Stan's hint that something perked his interest in football and Arsenal in particular when previously there was no interest at all. Wonder what it could have been?
Dunno about others, but I read it more as some form of stunted speech impediment disorder. I think it’s nothing but some constipated code-speak for “ho ho, yippee ki-yay I’ve spotted a good investment opportunity here yo suckers”. One thing is for sure though, as far as his intentions for the club are concerned; it ain’t so that he can twirl his ‘tache thin in anxious agony for some silverware at the end of the day.

[Super Ghel]

Also apparently for the first time ever there was no Q&A section at the end.

Bastard fans ask too many awkward questions.

Could be the start of a worrying trend. With no proper Q&A grilling sessions, AGMs are effectively no better than stage managed events where the main participants go about on some farcical lap of appreciation by patting themselves on the back as they re-new their vows to the self-sustaining model; with Gazidis harping about the financial health of the club in one corner, while Arsene reaffirms his commitment to the board’s “courageous” policy in the other, with a smirk but nevertheless bewildered looking Ron Burgundy impersonator fidgeting uncomfortably in his seat as PHW provides the eventual comic relief to break the doldrums. All this is done of course with a big two fingers sign hanging majestically in the background.

[Super Ghel]

PHW - "That's how we roll, bitches" :lol:

Nah. As much as we love good old Pete and how his sensibilities and priorities gets more “coherent” with each passing year, it’s a lot more fitting with slick Gazidis at the end of that line imo. PHW is nothing more than a figurehead at the club these days and his role has been greatly diminished since the arrival of Ivan. Slick Ivan is the one we need to watch out for since he’s effectively the de facto man in charge who’s running the investment vehicle for Kroenke’s Sports Empire on this side of the Atlantic now. Pete’s role is more or less reduced to that of the perennial court jester at the AGM.

[fakeyank]

Gazidis was brought on board by AW.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7749742.stm

First time ever at a football club properly where the chief executive of a club was done by the manager of the club. Arsene is much more powerful than a poor puppet. He pulls almost all the strings at Arsenal. It is very simple.. he wouldnt have stayed at Arsenal if he didnt have control over the running of the football side of things. If AFC is failing at football, I'll blame AW. When we went unbeaten, I dont recall people creaming their pants over the board, they were creaming over AW (and rightly so). If we are failing at football then the blame is entirely on Arsene.

[Niall_Quinn]

AGMs are effectively no better than stage managed events where the main participants go about on some farcical lap of appreciation by patting themselves on the back as they re-new their vows to the self-sustaining model

We've finally arrived in the 21st century. So everything can now proceed on behalf of the victims who, unfortunately, are compelled to say nothing on this occasion. All that remains is to dig in your pocket and hand over the money so the act can be spun as approval. 60,000 occupied seats say they can't be wrong. This is what makes football such an attractive business to the wrong sort. Abusive, amoral psychopaths have all the fun, whichever way it turns out. It's a bit like the vote. You get what you deserve if you fail to endorse one of the pre-selected serious criminals on offer, whereas those who exercise their rights and do their duty end up getting the same.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gazidis was brought on board by AW.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7749742.stm

First time ever at a football club properly where the chief executive of a club was done by the manager of the club. Arsene is much more powerful than a poor puppet. He pulls almost all the strings at Arsenal. It is very simple.. he wouldnt have stayed at Arsenal if he didnt have control over the running of the football side of things. If AFC is failing at football, I'll blame AW. When we went unbeaten, I dont recall people creaming their pants over the board, they were creaming over AW (and rightly so). If we are failing at football then the blame is entirely on Arsene.

Where does it say in that article Wenger appointed Gazidis?

[fakeyank]

Where does it say in that article Wenger appointed Gazidis?

Not in that article but thats common knowledge Arsene was involved in his appointment. See article:

http://www.arsenalinsider.com/arsenal-appoints-new-chief-executive-ivan-gazidis/

Read "About Arsene Wenger’s role in the appointment"

[Niall_Quinn]

“We all had lunch together a couple of weeks ago, and Arsene met Ivan and he likes him. It was important that Arsene Wenger respected his judgement, so to that extent Arsene was involved in the appointment.”

Is that the bit you're talking about, from the latest article you've offered?

[Power n Glory]

We don't have to hand over shit. Just stop going to games if you feel so strongly about it. I'd advise the same for everyone else. This isn't some gas or oil company exploiting workers and shafting customers with extortionate prices, and the piblic have no chocie, it's a football club and part of the entertainment business. It's always been easy money but now the pots bigger and we're global. We're paying for a few cheers and bragging rights. Forget protesting, just stop paying for it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We don't have to hand over shit. Just stop going to games if you feel so strongly about it. I'd advise the same for everyone else. This isn't some gas or oil company exploiting workers and shafting customers with extortionate prices, and the piblic have no chocie, it's a football club and part of the entertainment business. It's always been easy money but now the pots bigger and we're global. We're paying for a few cheers and bragging rights. Forget protesting, just stop paying for it.

Never going to get loads of fans to do that though, thats the problem, if that was the case loads would have not renewd their season tickets this summer.

As long as people are paying for the games they will go no matter how bad it is.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not in that article but thats common knowledge Arsene was involved in his appointment. See article:

http://www.arsenalinsider.com/arsenal-appoints-new-chief-executive-ivan-gazidis/

Read "About Arsene Wenger’s role in the appointment"

well of course he is going to be involved all managers would be. it be stupid to go "here aw here Ivan and he'll be working with you" deal with it.

But i highgly doub't he was hired on AW' say so. If the board did not want him or agree o him he'd not be there simples.

[Super Ghel]

Gazidis was brought on board by AW.

First time ever at a football club properly where the chief executive of a club was done by the manager of the club. Arsene is much more powerful than a poor puppet..etc

In what world do you belong where an internal employee has the final word in the hiring or firing process of a company CEO? Please tell me cos’ I’ll like to know. And why do you have to keep jumping to the extremes every time that Wenger’s a puppet if he’s not leading the board by the nose? Why can’t he just be an employee who sees eye to eye with his employers, but maybe for different reasons? How many times do posters like NQ, JSAO, myself and numerous others here have to repeat ourselves before that point finally sifts thru your skull?

Look FY, contrary to what you believe (or inferred from various articles), it’s not within the scope of Arsene’s role to appoint the CEO of the club. That final decision rests in the hands of the Board of Directors full stop. If Arsene was involved in any way during the consultation process, it was merely a way for the board to determine if the two can work well together; to see if the chemistry was right for a successful team partnership. Get it? Goddamn FOL was right. It’s a waste of time with certain people here.

[Super Ghel]

well of course he is going to be involved all managers would be. it be stupid to go "here aw here Ivan and he'll be working with you" deal with it.

But i highgly doub't he was hired on AW' say so. If the board did not want him or agree o him he'd not be there simples.

:good:

[fakeyank]

Is that the bit you're talking about, from the latest article you've offered?

There were more articles around that time as to how AW was doing Ken Friars job and actively finding his replacement. I am sure a lot of people will recall that... I will google them myself and get them here..

[Niall_Quinn]

There were more articles around that time as to how AW was doing Ken Friars job and actively finding his replacement. I am sure a lot of people will recall that... I will google them myself and get them here..

Yeah I heard it at the time, but it's not credible. A takeover like Stan's doesn't just happen. The ground is laid before and after such an event, often in excruciating detail. Gazidis would have been part of that plan and the plan itself would only make sense if the CEO and the manager could get along. So in that respect I'm sure Wenger influenced the decision, but there's no way he made the decision himself. The media will write any old shit just to fill the column space.

Look at this from the Guardian, which concentrates more on verifiable recent events:


Q: Should Alisher Usmanov be granted a seat on the board?

A: The Uzbek billionaire owns a little under 30% of the shares through his Red & White Holdings vehicle but he is something of an outsider. He has sought to ingratiate himself with the fans by proposing a £100m cash injection via a share issue, for spending on new players, and also positioning himself against the concept of the self-sustaining business model. Hence the calls for him to be appointed as a director. But they have been rejected and they continue to be met with resistance, with Hill-Wood speaking of being "comfortable with the constitution of the board" and having no wish to change it. The chairman talked of every director "caring deeply about the long-term future of the club" and wanting "the very best" for it. The suggestion was that Usmanov does not.

And:


Q: Can Arsenal enjoy the success that their supporters crave with the self‑sustaining business model?

A: This question underpins almost every discussion in relation to the club. The fans have long wished to see a greater degree of speculation – on the transfer market – in order to accumulate and they have been concerned at how the Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur have demonstrated their financial clout. There was the call here for an equity injection up to 2014, when Arsenal will be able to renegotiate their major commercial deals, in the hope that it would help to attract some high‑quality players. Yet the members of the board are utterly resolute, believing that living within the club's means is the only way forward. They refuse to mortgage the club's future by spending vast sums on new signings and have placed great faith in the incoming financial fair play rules. The club are working instead to develop revenue streams, with the pre-season tour to east Asia being advanced as one success. They will not consider a short-term injection of capital.

You see how this board operates? It makes £22mill profit in the transfer window and then rejects a cash injection on the grounds of sustainability whilst, at the same time, professing their love for the club. How is it not sustainable to reinvest funds raised from transfers? It's not like they have to pull money from elsewhere or, God forbid, their own pockets. What exactly is it they are sustaining? Not results on the pitch, not the trophy count, not the quality in the team. One thing has been sustained very well indeed though - the share price. The previous shareholders have taken the money that should have been invested in the team and they have put it in their own pockets. It's crystal clear, just look at the events and the numbers.

Now Stan states he will be following the same model. That should be at least a little worrying to any Arsenal fan.

Anyway, you won't agree and feel this is somehow all Wenger's doing. So we need to agree to disagree.

[Power n Glory]

Just read Le Grove. In the AGM meeting, Wenger said he was involved with the decision to raise ticket prices. This guy...

[Xhaka Can’t]

This is by and large a good debate topic, so please try and refrain from being personally abusive.

If you do feel there is a personally abusive post, rather than escalate things, please use the report function.

[Özim]

Just read Le Grove. In the AGM meeting, Wenger said he was involved with the decision to raise ticket prices. This guy...
He's got to make sure he covers his 6 million a year salary after all.

People who think Wenger is some sort of pawn being fed to the lions need to look back at everything he's said and done over the years, he's got this pipedream about building a team full of kids who dominate the world.....it's never happened despite his best efforts and never will, he just will never admit it.

I think he's far too involved in all aspects of the club, that's what happens when a manager is at a club for so long, problem is success isn't really his primary goal anymore...it's just about being morally superior and proving people wrong following a path which will never lead anywhere.

If you look at PHW, he sums up the club these days, doesn't give a toss about the fans....even when they want him to leave he's adamant he won't....Wenger for me doesn't care about the fans an awful lot either IMO, else he wouldn't keep insulting their intelligence and putting them through this crap, it really more about him and what he feels is right, which isn't necessarily right of course.

Rotten from top to bottom at the moment.....

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just read Le Grove. In the AGM meeting, Wenger said he was involved with the decision to raise ticket prices. This guy...

Which manager is not ? you think fergie don't have a say in the mancs ticket prices or mancini at city.

Don't see the problem tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's got to make sure he covers his 6 million a year salary after all.

People who think Wenger is some sort of pawn being fed to the lions need to look back at everything he's said and done over the years, he's got this pipedream about building a team full of kids who dominate the world.....it's never happened despite his best efforts and never will, he just will never admit it.

I think he's far too involved in all aspects of the club, that's what happens when a manager is at a club for so long, problem is success isn't really his primary goal anymore...it's just about being morally superior and proving people wrong following a path which will never lead anywhere.

If you look at PHW, he sums up the club these days, doesn't give a toss about the fans....even when they want him to leave he's adamant he won't....Wenger for me doesn't care about the fans an awful lot either IMO, else he wouldn't keep insulting their intelligence and putting them through this crap, it really more about him and what he feels is right, which isn't necessarily right of course.

Rotten from top to bottom at the moment.....


Well Arsenal is a business now why would they care about the fans, its the fans who need to stop paying because nothing will change from the board or the manager whilst all are still here.

if the fans want to be heard they need to boycott games and cancel memberships hit them where it really hurts.

why would aw care about some of the fans when they keep insulting him anyway. end of the day whether you like it or not he has done enough to get him salarly or he'd be sacked.

his aim like any manager is to please his board then his fans/staff/Customers.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I think he's far too involved in all aspects of the club,

Rotten from top to bottom at the moment.....


I wouuldnt say the very bottom......although the players do at times come across as they dont give a shit, I think most do!

However I doubt whether there is anyone, be it anti-Wenger or BH who wish that Wenger would just concentrate on the football side of things and that only......for the players to concentrate on the playing the game and that only and a board of directors to concentrate on running the club as a football club not as an avenue to get rich.

Whether we get these wishes under the current climate is another thing, I believe we may be too far down the line......Wenger has got his fingers in too many pies and it deflects him away from what should be his primary job......the players are controlled by their agents and only seem to play for the team once they know they are secure off the pitch and the board...........over to you NQ

[Joker]

I'm not surprised Wenger was involved in the decision to raise ticket prices. He's a free market fundamentalist who believes in "market forces"

[Niall_Quinn]

I wouuldnt say the very bottom......although the players do at times come across as they dont give a shit, I think most do!

However I doubt whether there is anyone, be it anti-Wenger or BH who wish that Wenger would just concentrate on the football side of things and that only......for the players to concentrate on the playing the game and that only and a board of directors to concentrate on running the club as a football club not as an avenue to get rich.

Whether we get these wishes under the current climate is another thing, I believe we may be too far down the line......Wenger has got his fingers in too many pies and it deflects him away from what should be his primary job......the players are controlled by their agents and only seem to play for the team once they know they are secure off the pitch and the board...........over to you NQ

Thank you JSAO, and I just want to say my door will always be open to all of you.

So how do we put the sugar on the cherry on the icing on the top of this day? Easy. Let's kill the board!

Who's with me?

[Super Ghel]

:lol: Let me give the mods some help since it's obviously still a big issue to someone

In what world do you belong where an internal employee has the final word in the hiring or firing process of a company CEO? Please tell me cos’ I’ll like to know. And why do you have to keep jumping to the extremes every time that Wenger’s a puppet if he’s not leading the board by the nose? Why can’t he just be an employee who sees eye to eye with his employers, but maybe for different reasons? How many times do posters like NQ, JSAO, myself and numerous others here have to repeat ourselves before that point finally registers?

Look FY, contrary to what you believe (or inferred from various articles), it’s not within the scope of Arsene’s role to appoint the CEO of the club. That final decision rests in the hands of the Board of Directors full stop. If Arsene was involved in any way during the consultation process, it was merely a way for the board to determine if the two can work well together; to see if the chemistry was right for a successful team partnership. Get it? Goddamn FOL was right. It’s a waste of time with certain people here.

[Super Ghel]

Note to mods: I’m reposting an edited version (without the insults) of my prior reply because I feel total deletion was overly harsh on your part as my post contained a lot of valid points which hopefully FY can take on board when making future posts here (however unlikely that may seem). If I've missed any parts which you deem inappropriate then just go ahead and edit

It’s staggering how some innocuous exchanges or pent up angst can lead to such embarrassing meltdowns. I am not surprised that you showed true form on cue by resorting to some primal pissing contest or delusional fits over the internet when the logical arguments or avenues are exhausted from your end yet again FY. Because that’s exactly what the majority of your posts seem like to most people around here; it revolves around your same tired pre-occupation of harping your flawed arguments again and again, having total disregard and no basic consideration to the many excellent points raised by various intelligent posters in this forum.

See the point I raised above, about how to keep you repeating the same thing by jumping to extremes that Wenger’s a puppet if he’s not leading the board by the nose? Did you not read NQ’s or JSAO’s posts explaining the folly of your argument? Why can’t you show some mature ability to digest valid points made by others for a change? Why don’t you show some coherent logical counter arguments instead of coming off like a dyslexic every time? Did Syn recently not point this fact out to you, that you keep avoiding legitimate points? What did you do? Dismiss his point entirely by claiming it was humour when the truth is, you’re fooling nobody here in this forum as the majority of your posts exactly reflect the true nature of your bias on the subject. Did JSAO not make a sarcastic point as well recently about how you’re hiding under the pretense of humour?

Sure, I’m aware that my brand of wit can be rather stinging or too much for you to handle but when you show no such consideration to others, why should anybody here extend you the same courtesy? It’s not like I’m throwing a hissy fit like you are right now or don’t have any coherence in my points or are depriving you of an opportunity to counter my argument in any way, shape or form. Evidently this pent up torment of yours goes back weeks ago when I made that mong paradox argument. Look, it was never my intention to refer to you as a mong directly in the first place; the opportunity was there for you to choose the non –mong option or counter my arguments logically, but what did you resort to?

You threw a hissy fit (much like what you’re doing now) like it was some personal attack or racial slur of sorts when you were out of logical replies. And with regards to your ethnicity, the truth is, it was merely exploratory conjecture on my part, as I seem to recall such references being made about you during my sparse visits here in the past. So, in the context of my usage with the Anglo-Bengal reference, it was only light banter since you started making so many odd references about the English dictionary; I just put two and two together and let my natural charm do the rest.

Hell I don’t think I’m overstepping the boundaries of acceptability by any means in our interesting little exchange here, but if you were offended in any way, well then, let’s have the mods decide. There’s no need for any mano-a-mano cockfights via PM or some prepubescent posturing from your end. I have neither the time, nor the slightest interest in such frivolities. It’s goddamn pointless, not to mention embarrassing.

[Ollie the Optimist]

think wengers speech at the agm was more significant then it first seemed. he said the team would fight, two days later they do just that. it united the most of fans when he said it behind him and the team and i think the players heard it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol: Let me give the mods some help since it's obviously still a big issue to someone

In what world do you belong where an internal employee has the final word in the hiring or firing process of a company CEO? Please tell me cos’ I’ll like to know. And why do you have to keep jumping to the extremes every time that Wenger’s a puppet if he’s not leading the board by the nose? Why can’t he just be an employee who sees eye to eye with his employers, but maybe for different reasons? How many times do posters like NQ, JSAO, myself and numerous others here have to repeat ourselves before that point finally registers?

Look FY, contrary to what you believe (or inferred from various articles), it’s not within the scope of Arsene’s role to appoint the CEO of the club. That final decision rests in the hands of the Board of Directors full stop. If Arsene was involved in any way during the consultation process, it was merely a way for the board to determine if the two can work well together; to see if the chemistry was right for a successful team partnership. Get it? Goddamn FOL was right. It’s a waste of time with certain people here.

Spot on SG don't see it a big deal about him being involved.

[Power n Glory]

Spot on SG don't see it a big deal about him being involved.

Interesting. You also don't see a problem with Wenger being involved with the decision to raise ticket prices. This is where bias starts to creep in. A funny thing has started to happen on these boards. A few months back when we'd discuss these sort of issues, there was outright denial that he was ever involved in such a process. It usually crops up when discussing the transfer budget and wage structure. As things develop and more information comes out, we find out that Wenger is more involved with these things than some people would like to believe.

Not sure if you were a part of this debate, but I think Super Ghel and a few others were back on the old GW. The discussion went down the same route. I think it was about Nasri and the way the club allowed his contract to run down to less than two years. At first, a few people were arguing that he's not involved with that side of the business, so they place the blame firmly on the guys in the background, but it then becomes clear that Wenger is involved with these sort of decisions and can make difference. This is why I have a problem with so much of our problems being deflected on to the Board. It's an easy scapegoat. It's gone from Wenger not being involved and separate from to these guys to him being involved but it's 'okay' he's doing nothing wrong or out of the ordinary. It's in his job description.

This stance against the Board has been going on for years in fact and I've always been adamant that he's part of the 'old boys' club. He fits right in and that's why I give him more stick because people are too willing to look past that aspect of his character. It's not acceptable to look past these things and reply back with a 'how do you know' or 'were you there' type of response when discussing what's happening in the background. When it comes to light, with such interviews, of how involved he is, we get the shrug of the shoulders type, 'I don't see the problem' response. Not saying it's just you, it's just the way this overall discussion has gone and I'm starting to see a pattern. It started way before this thread was created. Years maybe. If people don't see a problem with Wenger being involved with key decisions like this, then why outright deny that he's involved with the process in the first place?

I'm not saying Wenger has the final word on these things, but he can influence the decision. Wenger is the golden goose here. They wouldn't ask him if they didn't respect his opinion. We wouldn't be here if they didn't. Take F1 for example.The Mercedes team have brought in Schuamacher so he can help them build a championship winning car. They rely on his feedback. If he told them they need to invest in better tires for a championship winning car, wouldn't it be foolish of them not to listen to his advice? On too many occasions, I find Wenger pulling in the direction of the Board instead of what's right for the team. Look at that meeting. He's patting them on the back for being courageous and applauding their model. He mentions he was involved with the ticket price hike decision and practically jumps in front of the bullet for these guys. Why mention that he was involved in such an unpopular decision amongst the fans? He knows he has clout with the crowd and that's why he used it. Why can't he do the reveres with the Board? If people are saying he's being denied funds so they can pocket the difference, why isn't he demanding all of it? He doesn't have the final word but I can't imagine another manager that has his sort of status in the club allowing it to happen. Without Wenger, this business model is impossible. Impossible. It wouldn't happen if we had someone like Fergie, O'Neil, Redknapp, Ancelotti...whoever. It's Wenger's philosophy on developing youth that ties this whole thing up and it's not something that was forced on him. The wheels were set in motion when we sold Anelka and co and then decided to invest in the training ground and academy. Wenger firmly believes in the Ajax model of youth development. That is what he's trying to replicate. Check all his interviews on developing talent and think back to when he was getting stick for not developing English talent. He told reporters it would take 10 years before they'd see the fruits of his labour behind the scenes regarding English talent and we're starting to see it now with JW. He kept stressing to the FA to replicate the French National Academy system that completely changed French football and resulted in the World Cup and Euro wins. That's the level of Wenger's thinking. You have to start young when it comes to developing talent. He firmly believes that and English football has always been way behind when it came to that level of thinking. This is why Wenger is held to such a high esteem at Arsenal. He has the vision that nobody else had.

Wenger doesn't have total power but he has the Board's ear. If he felt Gazidis was wrong for the club he could have said something. If he felt the self sustaining model was wrong and we needed outside investment, he could have said something. Would they have taking his opinion on board? We don't know. But they give him a lot of credit for us moving to the Emirates and developing our Youth system. A heck of a lot. It's obvious the Board and Wenger see eye to eye on these issues, but if we're going to talk about thieving, deceptive bastards...it might be worth paying close attention to Wenger. It's a hard one, but he's the mouthpiece that's calling for piece and harmony knowing that these guys 'have their hands in our pockets'. That's what I have a problem with.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Interesting. You also don't see a problem with Wenger being involved with the decision to raise ticket prices. .

Never said that, i said id agree there was nothing wrong with him being involved in the bringing Ivan in.

But even so doesn't every manager have a say in the risr of ticket prices. im sure fergie has the same imput wenger has. Same as AVB has and chavs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Thread closed for five minutes for a bit of a clean up.

To keep the actual topic debate flowing, any comments on moderation, complaints or general whinges can be made here:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Thread re-opened.

Please stay on topic and refrain from abusive posts. If you see an post you find to be abusive, please use the REPORT function rather than escalating the problem.

[Power n Glory]

Which manager is not ? you think fergie don't have a say in the mancs ticket prices or mancini at city.

Don't see the problem tbh.

Yes you did and here is the post. Also, I can't see any other manager saying we need to raise ticket prices to compete with the other clubs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I cannot see how it is right that a Club Manager gets involved in administrative minutae such as ticket prices. That said, if Wenger came out publicly and said the 6.5% increase is a fucking outrage, I'd applaud him.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes you did and here is the post. Also, I can't see any other manager saying we need to raise ticket prices to compete with the other clubs.

My initial post was about Aw being involved in the appointment of Ivan. Id expect him to be some say in the ticket prices, wheather its to say he don't agree with it or not is the question.

I don't expect him to have the final say on it or even approve it.

[Power n Glory]

My initial post was about Aw being involved in the appointment of Ivan. Id expect him to be some say in the ticket prices, wheather its to say he don't agree with it or not is the question.

I don't expect him to have the final say on it or even approve it.

No dude. I'm quoting post #103. I didn't say anything about Gazidis in that post. You were replying specifically to my post about the ticket price increase. Go look at what you wrote on page 11. Post #103.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No dude. I'm quoting post #103. I didn't say anything about Gazidis in that post. You were replying specifically to my post about the ticket price increase. Go look at what you wrote on page 11. Post #103.

Ah ok got my wires mixed up. Like i sais All managers get involved in these decisions, But i would not be happy if AW had the final say which i don't think he did.

As you don't have a link who's to know its even true.

[Boss]

Managers shouldn't be involved in these kinds of decisions and it's unlikely Fergie/Mancini etc are. Leave ticket pricing to the marketing department.

Our ticket price increase was a real own goal by the club given that it brought in only around 4.5M and we made a 18M profit on transfers this season. We already had the highest prices in the league IIRC and raising them does nothing apart from piss off fans, a lot of whom are already on the fence about attending games.

[Power n Glory]

Ah ok got my wires mixed up. Like i sais All managers get involved in these decisions, But i would not be happy if AW had the final say which i don't think he did.

As you don't have a link who's to know its even true.

Why comment and defend it if you thought it wasn't true?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Managers shouldn't be involved in these kinds of decisions and it's unlikely Fergie/Mancini etc are. Leave ticket pricing to the marketing department.

Our ticket price increase was a real own goal by the club given that it brought in only around 4.5M and we made a 18M profit on transfers this season. We already had the highest prices in the league IIRC and raising them does nothing apart from piss off fans, a lot of whom are already on the fence about attending games.

So you think they are not told and its just sprung on them?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why comment and defend it if you thought it wasn't true?

Said it might not be true as i had not seen the link and expected you to post it.

[Power n Glory]

Said it might not be true as i had not seen the link and expected you to post it. Go read Le Grove. Google Le Grove and find the AGM one. This ipod is too fiddly to copy and paste links.

[Boss]

So you think they are not told and its just sprung on them?

Has very little to do with them, so yep.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Unless Wenger specifically states it elsewhere, this is what I think Le Grove is talking about (~10:40 mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNXDAZIYZQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNXDAZIYZQ)


"I know as well that in the modern world ticket pricing is a problem. We spoke about that alot at the board before that decision has been made, but just to keep the players we have to put our wages up so high that the financial situation becomes more and more difficlut for us"

From that alone it's difficult to ascertain how much involvement he had in the decision, but given his justification of it he is at the very least outwardly complicit.

Why is Wenger involved in deciding ticket pricing? Wenger speaks about the need to keep hold of players in the face of spiralling wage demands. It's self-evident that money affects the ability to build the team. Whether that is justification for involvement, however large or small it may be, I neither know enough to care or care enough to know.

The question in my mind is why?
Why is he talking about the need of extra funds to service player wages when we know that:

a) We have a combined Wage and Transfer budget
b) Funds garnered from players sales are reserved for this budget
c) We started the summer with a £30-£50m 'warchest' (speculatively)
d) We made a transfer profit and we didn't even manage to spend that

With gates stable at around £93m a price rise of 6.5% is little more than £6m. A sum that SwissRamble claims could easily have been offset had one of the minted board members swallowed the £3m in fees associated with Kroenke's buyout.

So why the line about needing a paltry £6m for wages when we did not even spend our transfer surplus let alone the supposed warchest?
And at the AGM why wouldn't they talk about about Tom Fox's bonus or what the criteria for it was?

Tom Fox, if you need reminding is Commercial Director, the guy who on seeing the 40,000 waiting list for season tickets said “As a US sports executive… you think, you’re not charging enough for tickets.”

Both Wenger and Gazidis have spoken about the long discussions over the ticket price hike, presumably to propogate the idea that it was not a decision taken lightly. Then again, maybe they were undecided as to how much they could get away with.

[Syn]

Whether or not Wenger 'should' be involve in pricing strategy, the point about whether Fergie or Mancini would be involved...they're not involved because they're too thick to be involved. Or, at least, there's never a consideration to involve them because they don't have the credentials to be involved. Wenger, on the other hand, is clued up on economics.

Too much is being made of it...as it so often is with the pathetic false outrage from fans when we don't have a clue what's going on.

[Power n Glory]

Unless Wenger specifically states it elsewhere, this is what I think Le Grove is talking about (~10:40 mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNXDAZIYZQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNXDAZIYZQ)



From that alone it's difficult to ascertain how much involvement he had in the decision, but given his justification of it he is at the very least outwardly complicit.

Why is Wenger involved in deciding ticket pricing? Wenger speaks about the need to keep hold of players in the face of spiralling wage demands. It's self-evident that money affects the ability to build the team. Whether that is justification for involvement, however large or small it may be, I neither know enough to care or care enough to know.

The question in my mind is why?
Why is he talking about the need of extra funds to service player wages when we know that:

a) We have a combined Wage and Transfer budget
b) Funds garnered from players sales are reserved for this budget
c) We started the summer with a £30-£50m 'warchest' (speculatively)
d) We made a transfer profit and we didn't even manage to spend that

With gates stable at around £93m a price rise of 6.5% is little more than £6m. A sum that SwissRamble claims could easily have been offset had one of the minted board members swallowed the £3m in fees associated with Kroenke's buyout.

So why the line about needing a paltry £6m for wages when we did not even spend our transfer surplus let alone the supposed warchest?
And at the AGM why wouldn't they talk about about Tom Fox's bonus or what the criteria for it was?

Tom Fox, if you need reminding is Commercial Director, the guy who on seeing the 40,000 waiting list for season tickets said “As a US sports executive… you think, you’re not charging enough for tickets.”

Both Wenger and Gazidis have spoken about the long discussions over the ticket price hike, presumably to propogate the idea that it was not a decision taken lightly. Then again, maybe they were undecided as to how much they could get away with.

:gp:

That's a good post and hits a few points I'm driving at.

[Niall_Quinn]

The £6million per year is £60mill plus interest over 10 years. Tidy even if everything else stays flat. Money men won't look at things the same way as fans.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

My understanding of the whole story is when Wenger, Dein and rest of board signed up for the stadium they all agreed on not being able to spend for a few seasons, relying heavily on developing youngsters and limited top salaries. We achieved our primary goal of increasing the income from gate fees, how ever to fund the project they got into not so great commercial deals which were while not being high value was structured favorably. Unfortunately what happened next was the advent of Chelsea and a a steep increase in revenues of clubs like Real, Barca and Mancs. A lot of clubs started developing strong international scouting networks as well (not a strong point of English clubs before). The original plan could have been a few years of transition and then returning back to winning some trophies if not world domination. The unexpected events mentioned earlier coupled our inability to increase revenues meant that we not being able to compete with other top teams in terms of wages, gradually dawning on every one that we will develop great players but struggle to hold on to them. This i think is the point of disagreement that Dein had with the board, Dein wanting to get in investors who could help us through. Wenger is from what i gather on the Dein boat. Looks like he wanted t re-jig the whole team retaining only the top players, while the re-jig and and introduction/promotion of some young players worked what didn't work is retaining some Cesc and Nasri. Extending Cesc was always futile he did try for a gentle mans agreement for one season. The real disappointment for Wenger could have been losing out on Nasri and then losing out on Mata(again realiable people claiming we were in for him) due to wages. While we may have budgets to spend 20 to 25 mil on player fee we don't have budgets for huge salary. Despite of this we are still 4th or 5th on the highest salary league, largely as every one knows due to the relatively high average salaries that we play, again a problem when you see that a lot of performers were below average. The AGM has not provided any info in changing any of that. In hind sight we could all point at mistakes that could have been corrected, but i think i will take what has happened in the past 7 years including the lack of trophies.Its not an easy job building a new stadium(as others are finding out) and i think we have done an admirable job. What i'am worried about is in 2014 when we will improve our commercial revenues there is no saying what could happen to the other clubs for all that we know they could improve it further. The expectation on FFP bailing us out is misplaced. We know how Shitty has chosen to interpret it. Wenger has already made a public statement saying UEFA will struggle to enforce this (more of message to our board than anyone else). Footballisticly i would love to see honest, committed performances from the team which i think this squad will give as opposed to some other teams in the past which were supposedly high on quality.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That is a pretty good analysis.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

That is a pretty good analysis.
:tiphat:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

My understanding of the whole story is when Wenger, Dein and rest of board signed up for the stadium they all agreed on not being able to spend for a few seasons, relying heavily on developing youngsters and limited top salaries. We achieved our primary goal of increasing the income from gate fees, how ever to fund the project they got into not so great commercial deals which were while not being high value was structured favorably. Unfortunately what happened next was the advent of Chelsea and a a steep increase in revenues of clubs like Real, Barca and Mancs. A lot of clubs started developing strong international scouting networks as well (not a strong point of English clubs before). The original plan could have been a few years of transition and then returning back to winning some trophies if not world domination. The unexpected events mentioned earlier coupled our inability to increase revenues meant that we not being able to compete with other top teams in terms of wages, gradually dawning on every one that we will develop great players but struggle to hold on to them. This i think is the point of disagreement that Dein had with the board, Dein wanting to get in investors who could help us through. Wenger is from what i gather on the Dein boat. Looks like he wanted t re-jig the whole team retaining only the top players, while the re-jig and and introduction/promotion of some young players worked what didn't work is retaining some Cesc and Nasri. Extending Cesc was always futile he did try for a gentle mans agreement for one season. The real disappointment for Wenger could have been losing out on Nasri and then losing out on Mata(again realiable people claiming we were in for him) due to wages. While we may have budgets to spend 20 to 25 mil on player fee we don't have budgets for huge salary. Despite of this we are still 4th or 5th on the highest salary league, largely as every one knows due to the relatively high average salaries that we play, again a problem when you see that a lot of performers were below average. The AGM has not provided any info in changing any of that. In hind sight we could all point at mistakes that could have been corrected, but i think i will take what has happened in the past 7 years including the lack of trophies.Its not an easy job building a new stadium(as others are finding out) and i think we have done an admirable job. What i'am worried about is in 2014 when we will improve our commercial revenues there is no saying what could happen to the other clubs for all that we know they could improve it further. The expectation on FFP bailing us out is misplaced. We know how Shitty has chosen to interpret it. Wenger has already made a public statement saying UEFA will struggle to enforce this (more of message to our board than anyone else). Footballisticly i would love to see honest, committed performances from the team which i think this squad will give as opposed to some other teams in the past which were supposedly high on quality.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, it's a fair enough summary but it misses out the bit about the board not changing direction once it realised the plan was heading for the buffers. And it fails to analyse the train of events that led to them exiting with hundreds of millions of pounds in their pockets at a time when, everyone seems to agree, more cash was needed to compensate for developments in football. What's happened over the last decade is this board has put themselves first, second and third. You just look at what's happened both on and off the pitch and it's self evident. If we don't excoriate them for being totally self centred pricks who are 100% greedy when even 90% greedy would have done us all a favour, then we must say they are the most fortunate beneficiaries of coincidence the world has ever seen.

[Coney]

My understanding of the whole story is when Wenger, Dein and rest of board signed up for the stadium they all agreed on not being able to spend for a few seasons, relying heavily on developing youngsters and limited top salaries. We achieved our primary goal of increasing the income from gate fees, how ever to fund the project they got into not so great commercial deals which were while not being high value was structured favorably. Unfortunately what happened next was the advent of Chelsea and a a steep increase in revenues of clubs like Real, Barca and Mancs. A lot of clubs started developing strong international scouting networks as well (not a strong point of English clubs before). The original plan could have been a few years of transition and then returning back to winning some trophies if not world domination. The unexpected events mentioned earlier coupled our inability to increase revenues meant that we not being able to compete with other top teams in terms of wages, gradually dawning on every one that we will develop great players but struggle to hold on to them. This i think is the point of disagreement that Dein had with the board, Dein wanting to get in investors who could help us through. Wenger is from what i gather on the Dein boat. Looks like he wanted t re-jig the whole team retaining only the top players, while the re-jig and and introduction/promotion of some young players worked what didn't work is retaining some Cesc and Nasri. Extending Cesc was always futile he did try for a gentle mans agreement for one season. The real disappointment for Wenger could have been losing out on Nasri and then losing out on Mata(again realiable people claiming we were in for him) due to wages. While we may have budgets to spend 20 to 25 mil on player fee we don't have budgets for huge salary. Despite of this we are still 4th or 5th on the highest salary league, largely as every one knows due to the relatively high average salaries that we play, again a problem when you see that a lot of performers were below average. The AGM has not provided any info in changing any of that. In hind sight we could all point at mistakes that could have been corrected, but i think i will take what has happened in the past 7 years including the lack of trophies.Its not an easy job building a new stadium(as others are finding out) and i think we have done an admirable job. What i'am worried about is in 2014 when we will improve our commercial revenues there is no saying what could happen to the other clubs for all that we know they could improve it further. The expectation on FFP bailing us out is misplaced. We know how Shitty has chosen to interpret it. Wenger has already made a public statement saying UEFA will struggle to enforce this (more of message to our board than anyone else). Footballisticly i would love to see honest, committed performances from the team which i think this squad will give as opposed to some other teams in the past which were supposedly high on quality.

Interesting and very believable. :good:

[gunsofashburtongrove]

Yeah, it's a fair enough summary but it misses out the bit about the board not changing direction once it realised the plan was heading for the buffers. And it fails to analyse the train of events that led to them exiting with hundreds of millions of pounds in their pockets at a time when, everyone seems to agree, more cash was needed to compensate for developments in football. What's happened over the last decade is this board has put themselves first, second and third. You just look at what's happened both on and off the pitch and it's self evident. If we don't excoriate them for being totally self centred pricks who are 100% greedy when even 90% greedy would have done us all a favour, then we must say they are the most fortunate beneficiaries of coincidence the world has ever seen.
Hundreds of millions of pounds by selling shares, i don't have a problem with that because Kronke who's bought most has not converted his investment into liability for the club. I know Mancs who claim they would have our board over ours. The change in direction as i have mentioned towards the end is something I'am concerned with. I can think of two approaches
1. Get more money in read Usmanov types as supported by Dien or as AST has been wanting by way of equity etc
2. Pro-activley identifying commercial opportunities.

The first approach is definitely not what the board is going to take, while Dein might feel that being a consensus builder could moderate the effect of sugar daddy this could completely go out of control. The second is what we are after. Recruiting Ivan and the commercial officer etc are part of that. Unfortunately there are no intermediate targets which would tell us if we are making progress. Its wait and watch. So far some minor sponsorship deals, Asian tour and interpreting a waiting list of 40,000 as demand supply imbalance are their contribution. The first two are small gains out of nothing and the other very effective at antagonizing fans

[Fist of Lehmann]

Interesting and very believable. :good:I felt it was pretty much what I've said in the past, except with fewer paragraphs.

[Coney]

Hundreds of millions of pounds by selling shares, i don't have a problem with that because Kronke who's bought most has not converted his investment into liability for the club. I know Mancs who claim they would have our board over ours. The change in direction as i have mentioned towards the end is something I'am concerned with. I can think of two approaches
1. Get more money in read Usmanov types as supported by Dien or as AST has been wanting by way of equity etc
2. Pro-activley identifying commercial opportunities.

The first approach is definitely not what the board is going to take, while Dein might feel that being a consensus builder could moderate the effect of sugar daddy this could completely go out of control. The second is what we are after. Recruiting Ivan and the commercial officer etc are part of that. Unfortunately there are no intermediate targets which would tell us if we are making progress. Its wait and watch. So far some minor sponsorship deals, Asian tour and interpreting a waiting list of 40,000 as demand supply imbalance are their contribution. The first two are small gains out of nothing and the other very effective at antagonizing fans

1. At the time of the hassle with the board, I'm not sure Dein was in league with Usmanov, rather with Kroenke which would have been less frigthening.

2. The Emirates sponsorship could have been worse but should have been much better. Manu managed massively more than us, though maybe our refusal to do summer tours to build up more Far Eastern support might have made us less sellable as a name.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

1. At the time of the hassle with the board, I'm not sure Dein was in league with Usmanov, rather with Kroenke which would have been less frigthening.

2. The Emirates sponsorship could have been worse but should have been much better. Manu managed massively more than us, though maybe our refusal to do summer tours to build up more Far Eastern support might have made us less sellable as a name.
1. Yes. But he was representing R&W for some time (not sure if he is ). The gist is i think he is believes in getting an investor in who would spend
2. Yes. Though i don't know the exact details most commercial deals like most player payments are structured -over a period of time etc. The emirates deal was structured favorably as i understand. I don't think the board can be faulted for the earlier deals they took what was best at the time. That said there is a propensity to stick to the plan when the environment around football has changed. The board has to be aggressive and inventive from now on at least

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't disagree, what I'm saying is the board has chosen to place the entire burden on the fan base while ensuring their own return has been absolute. Was it inconceivable to make an arrangement with Kroenke that saw some of that money come back into the club? Did they really need every last penny for themselves right there and then? It also culled their interest in the club. What's it to them now if the club does well or falls down the table? In fact why are they still here? What's their role? What's their incentive? What do they stand to lose if they do not perform? It seems like they are stuffed shirt just crowding out the good seats. Why? Continuity seems to be the only answer, but why do we need continuity of a failed plan? And it has certainly failed. The intention (allegedly) was to retain our status in the top flight. In spite of Chelsea and City's emergence the plan has rolled on without taking account of these developments. That suggests to me it was never the real plan in the first place. And I agree 100%, there's no way these financial fair play rules are going to change anything. The top people at Arsenal aren't naive enough to think otherwise. So why another bullshit line? I watch what they do and not what they say, and I see them all getting rich while the team struggles against mounting odds. The board has done a very bad job and they've profited handsomely. They should be given zero credit as a result. They rely on the fans 100% but don't have the good grace to let the fans know what their intentions are, beyond some BS matra about "doing things the right way". Do they forget we are a football team and not a branch of M&S? I don't like these people. I don't like them because of what they have done to the club.

[Power n Glory]

Hundreds of millions of pounds by selling shares, i don't have a problem with that because Kronke who's bought most has not converted his investment into liability for the club. I know Mancs who claim they would have our board over ours. The change in direction as i have mentioned towards the end is something I'am concerned with. I can think of two approaches
1. Get more money in read Usmanov types as supported by Dien or as AST has been wanting by way of equity etc
2. Pro-activley identifying commercial opportunities.

The first approach is definitely not what the board is going to take, while Dein might feel that being a consensus builder could moderate the effect of sugar daddy this could completely go out of control. The second is what we are after. Recruiting Ivan and the commercial officer etc are part of that. Unfortunately there are no intermediate targets which would tell us if we are making progress. Its wait and watch. So far some minor sponsorship deals, Asian tour and interpreting a waiting list of 40,000 as demand supply imbalance are their contribution. The first two are small gains out of nothing and the other very effective at antagonizing fans

Sensible post.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

I don't disagree, what I'm saying is the board has chosen to place the entire burden on the fan base while ensuring their own return has been absolute. Was it inconceivable to make an arrangement with Kroenke that saw some of that money come back into the club? Did they really need every last penny for themselves right there and then? It also culled their interest in the club. What's it to them now if the club does well or falls down the table? In fact why are they still here? What's their role? What's their incentive? What do they stand to lose if they do not perform? It seems like they are stuffed shirt just crowding out the good seats. Why? Continuity seems to be the only answer, but why do we need continuity of a failed plan? And it has certainly failed. The intention (allegedly) was to retain our status in the top flight. In spite of Chelsea and City's emergence the plan has rolled on without taking account of these developments. That suggests to me it was never the real plan in the first place. And I agree 100%, there's no way these financial fair play rules are going to change anything. The top people at Arsenal aren't naive enough to think otherwise. So why another bullshit line? I watch what they do and not what they say, and I see them all getting rich while the team struggles against mounting odds. The board has done a very bad job and they've profited handsomely. They should be given zero credit as a result. They rely on the fans 100% but don't have the good grace to let the fans know what their intentions are, beyond some BS matra about "doing things the right way". Do they forget we are a football team and not a branch of M&S? I don't like these people. I don't like them because of what they have done to the club.
I see that you don't totally disagree. Your first suggestion is probably what Dein and few other members wanted, not sure what would have been the trade off. I don't think its has been a entirely failed plan though. I have been watching Arsenal since the mid/late 80's . Arsenal were never a big club then, which is not the case now i think the stadium decision was bold and well executed, but the failure in part has been in not adapting to the changed environments.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

Stan seems to be silent only with the fans

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/130984389.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF87892155F29F61288AC1CAD5A5939DEDE463B6 7D90780A16EA683B45BC0EF0114804BA

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Stan seems to be silent only with the fans

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/130984389.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF87892155F29F61288AC1CAD5A5939DEDE463B6 7D90780A16EA683B45BC0EF0114804BA

Wonder what he is saying to them lol

[IBK]

Wonder what he is saying to them lol

Why does American tailoring look so shite even when its cost a squillion dollars?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why does American tailoring look so shite even when its cost a squillion dollars?

Wengers like Stfu Stan your runing my team talk time lol