Match Reaction Vs Wigan

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Good win

Clattenberg is a cunt though.

[milla]

Biggest, most important win ever!!!

:coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

3 points, lots of goals, clean sheet, job done.

[KSE Comedy Club]

tbf it was pretty meaningful, in that they have beaten us the last few times and made us look shite.

[Marc Overmars]

tbf it was pretty meaningful, in that they have beaten us the last few times and made us look shite.

Few times?

They beaten us once. Ever.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gave them a good tonking, now for a relaxing week.

[Joker]

Easy win against a really poor side. Good to see other players apart from RVP scoring.

I've got to say though, Santos' positioning is absolutely woeful at times. There were so many occasions when Song and Vermaelen had to cover him after he was caught upfield. He also seems to get beaten very easily by some mediocre players.

[LDG]

Arsenal :bow:

Venger :bow:

Shame no other results went our way AGAIN.

Is it premier league rules that sperz get a shit team every week? Cunts.

[Master Splinter]

Clattenberg is a cunt though.

:gp: :gp:

It would have been 0-8, with Wigan down to nine if he was a proper referee.

[LDG]

Easy win against a really poor side. Good to see other players apart from RVP scoring.

I've got to say though, Santos' positioning is absolutely woeful at times. There were so many occasions when Song and Vermaelen had to cover him after he was caught upfield. He also seems to get beaten very easily by some mediocre players.

Shut up.

[Master Splinter]

Arsenal in December :bow:.

Good to see Gervinho get a goal, hopefully it gives him some sort of confidence in the box now.

Ramsey was very sloppy in every area, but there's not much to complain about when our one man team is on such a good run.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Shut up.

:gp:

[Syn]

An away league win is an away league win. A 0-4 win at that. They didn't push us which was partly down to their shitness and partly down to the massive difference in quality and a professional performance.

That 3rd goal will probably be an underrated goal...the fact that it was a rebound takes the gloss away but it was a very good build-up. Very good mix to our play today - good counter-attacks, large range shots, threatening from corners.

[Joker]

:gp:

So you think there's no issue with Santos then? Against top quality sides, he's going to be liability.

[LDG]

I love this team :D

[milla]

I love this team :D

I love you too man. :coffee:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

So you think there's no issue with Santos then? Against top quality sides, he's going to be liability.

He is what he is, Have i ever said he is ir was world class, end of the day he is professional when he plays and what to play for the shirt with that im happy.

He is not the best defender in the world but he won't have a world class game every week.

just a new target for you pick on now RVP mugged you off ?

[Globalgunner]

Santos is better than Gibbs so if he is as poor as you say then we are in bad shape for that position. Actually I think Santos is getting better I hope he stays in the side when perma crock Gibbs comes back. Cant believe Gervinho scored that goal. Walcott also played well.

[LDG]

So you think there's no issue with Santos then? Against top quality sides, he's going to be liability.

Just looking for things to blame. We won four nil. It's a good day. Santos may be a liability at times, but so is John Terry. And barca are weak as fuck at the back. Just enjoy a win.

Don't give a toss. We always play with full backs who go forward. One of the reasons it's great to have the balance with gervinho who actually covera back.

[Syn]

Santos hasn't done much wrong at all in the last month or so and he has done plenty right. He's actually been one of our better players. He's not getting caught out of position because it's also his job to attack and it's Song/Arteta's job to mop up when necessary. Everyone's doing their bit. We're fantastic. End of story.

[KESSLER]

"Szczesny went to the Arsenal fans at the final whistle on his own and started singing "We're by far the greatest team" to them. #bbcfootball"

Legend :bow:

[Syn]

When was the last time we won a league game by 4? Must be a year or so?

[Master Splinter]

When was the last time we won a league game by 4? Must be a year or so?

Fulham on the last day of the 09/10 season.

[LDG]

Legend :bow:

It's so nice having players at the club whi are proud to wear the shirt again.

Nasri can keep his fuckin money. Chez, jenko, verms etc. love em.

[Marc Overmars]

When was the last time we won a league game by 4? Must be a year or so?

Got 6 against Blackpool last year if you're looking for a game we got at least a 4 goal margin in.

[Syn]

Ah yeah...around the time Theo was getting quasi-prolific.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386369_304957569534624_139411852755864_1026374_159 7916361_n.jpg

Gaaaaaay.

[LDG]

Gaaaaaay.

So's your hand.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ah yeah...around the time Theo was getting quasi-prolific.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386369_304957569534624_139411852755864_1026374_159 7916361_n.jpg

Gaaaaaay.

Theo had to jump quite high lol

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Theo has grown.

[GP]

Ah yeah...around the time Theo was getting quasi-prolific.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386369_304957569534624_139411852755864_1026374_159 7916361_n.jpg

Gaaaaaay.

No homo.

[Master Splinter]

No homo.

That's what Mertesacker is saying to Theo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Some really good play in the last 20 mins of the 1st half, second half was a stroll. Clattenberg a bit of a cunt for letting them go in two footed and from behind on our players. Hopefully Song is okay.

Wigan awful and going down, we did what needed to be done without having to extend past 2nd gear. Solid defensive performance again, its' getting plain weird now. Ches is maturing into a top keeper at a frightening rate. Kos is like a different player, hard to believe it's the same guy as last year. TV is just class and Merts will settle. Santos is probably the weak link but he's as good as anything we've had there since ca$hley cunt. If these 5 can stay fit then we're in really good shape at the back.

Arteta was absolute shit as usual, really awful apart from his goal and his endless running for 90 mins and accurate passing. But apart from that - utter shite.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also Clattenberg waving on that penalty was seriously dodgy.

[Kano]

not bad at all. getting the gd up and in the right position to at least retain our top 4 status. chelsea will buy in jan, so they are far from finished and if liverpool dont sort out their goalscoring issue, especially when suarez runs out of legs, they haven't a chance.

[Power n Glory]

Song and Verm should be covering when our wing backs go forward. That's part of the job

[Ollie the Optimist]

didnt see the game but it sounded like hte west brom game the other day. didnt have to do anything and once we got hte goal we were going to win. nothing amazing but then a clean sheet is always good. this team might just be going places. early days yet but everygame my hope and belief just gets stronger and stronger.

[Syn]

Orbinho: There were 33 passes in the build up to Gervinho's goal, 10 more than any goal by any other team this season.

Not sure it technically counts because their goalkeeper got a touch before Gervinho converted but still...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It has been counted as an RVP assist so I suspect it will, technically.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Missed the match because Japanese cable decided to show the Scum vs Bolton

But am happy to see we got the job done, its against the lesser teams we seemed to have our blips in previous years and this year against Bkackburn but if we can beat them bith gome and away, you can safely start to say the team is maturing.

The goal celebration photo says it all. . .you can see a strong sense if team spirit and I bet you Santos is someone in the middle, he may be a bit suss defending but he seems to have brought a bit of fun to the team, and we no longer look like s bunch of moody gits. . . .RvP and Theos golf celebration the other week was another example.

I for one am a happy Gooner, I like it when we win and it makes me cant wait for the next game!

[up the arse]

Missed the match because Japanese cable decided to show the Scum vs Bolton

But am happy to see we got the job done, its against the lesser teams we seemed to have our blips in previous years and this year against Bkackburn but if we can beat them bith gome and away, you can safely start to say the team is maturing.

The goal celebration photo says it all. . .you can see a strong sense if team spirit and I bet you Santos is someone in the middle, he may be a bit suss defending but he seems to have brought a bit of fun to the team, and we no longer look like s bunch of moody gits. . . .RvP and Theos golf celebration the other week was another example.

I for one am a happy Gooner, I like it when we win and it makes me cant wait for the next game!

MOTD highlights if you haven't seen them

http://www.101greatgoals.com/?gg_video=wigan-0-arsenal-4-motd

[Syn]

Think you can just about make out Szczesny singing with the fans here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDvqiMr9PIU&feature=player_embedded

[milla]

Think you can just about make out Szczesny singing with the fans here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDvqiMr9PIU&feature=player_embedded

Szc3escrazy :bow:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

MOTD highlights if you haven't seen them

http://www.101greatgoals.com/?gg_video=wigan-0-arsenal-4-motd


Cheers nice on

[Ollie the Optimist]

chesney went to a boxing match at the emirates sometime this year and grabbed a mic, and made the crowd stand up and sing stand up if you hate tottenham.

i love him :bow:

the players now care and its fucking fantastic to see

[Ollie the Optimist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJDyUjhBNaQ

fakeyank had this one on facebook. about 11 seconds in you can clearly see him singing. :bow:

[fakeyank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJDyUjhBNaQ

fakeyank had this one on facebook. about 11 seconds in you can clearly see him singing. :bow:

Fuckin Legend! :bow:

Good to see the players playing for the shirt!

[Master Splinter]

Gervinho kissed the badge too!!!

He definitely loves the club and never wants to leave.

[Letters]

Gervinho kissed the badge too!!!

He definitely loves the club and never wants to leave.

:ilt:

[Tipsychubbs]

Can end up being the kiss of death, I wish players wouldn't do that, there are other ways to show appreciation for the club, like Chesney above, but kissing the badge is unnecessary and excessive. Caught up in the moment they may feel like they love the club, but you never say never, remember Adebayor kissing the badge? You never know how players will behave when they get bigger and the the big clubs start sniffing around.

[Letters]

I don't like badge kissing (make up your own jokes), but I do really like Chesney's entheusiasm.

[LDG]

I don't like badge kissing (make up your own jokes). :unsure:

[Letters]

I think my innuendometer is broken :(

[Master Splinter]

I don't like badge kissing (make up your own jokes), but I do really like Chesney's entheusiasm.


I think my innuendometer is broken :(

Seems your spell-checker is broken too.

And your face.

[Flavs]

Fuckin Legend! :bow:

Good to see the players playing for the shirt!

"All the best goalkeepers are nuts"

Scvwyatrxvewe :bow:

[Kano]

it took us 197 pl corners before verm scored on saturday :lol:

[Fist of Lehmann]

1 long range strike, 1 far post corner, 1 passy passy bollocks goal and the last one - 4 passes from back to front.

Goalscoring diversity for the win. Scored from corner against BVB as well.

Should have had a pelanty too were it not for the referee, Clappenburk is too lenient in general.

Overall I thought we showed tremendous spirit. Loads of great performances. Gervais caused allsorts of problems. Arteta excellent. Ramsby, Walcott, Song. Really impressed with how hard we worked throughout the game.

Moses was lively and Stam, one of their better players, managed to isolate Santos on a couple of occasions but produced nothing clear cut. Santos defelection on Whatsisface point blank shot could have been key, but with the way we played thereafter, I doubt it.

[Power n Glory]

:tumbleweed:

It's like a ghost town around here.

[LDG]

:tumbleweed:It's like a ghost town around here. We won comfortably. What do you expect?Arteta played well too, so you have nothing to moan about either :d :lol:

[Letters]

:tumbleweed:

It's like a ghost town around here.

Zimm has nothing to moan about. Don't worry, he had a brief moan when we lost to Money $ity, we're playing them again soon so he'll be back then.

[Power n Glory]

Even after wins we'd still get a few critical discussions about the performance. Also, you arseholes really need stop that moaning stuff. You should be encouraging discussions instead of shooting people down.

Maybe it's quiet because of the 3 o'clock kick off. I only saw the MOTD highlights so can't really comment.

[Cripps_orig]

All on the weekend fixtures thread

[Letters]

There has been a lot of moaning on here - and it has been moaning, not discussion.
And it's been going round the same circles for years.
What else is there to say?

And it's interesting to note that the biggest moaners have barely posted here during our good run, you can bet you're bottom dollar the first setback or two and they'll be back like a shot. It's prett wearying.

Discussion is fine but the most positive people tire of relentless moaning to the extent that some people on here seem to actively want Arsenal to do badly because they'd rather that than be shown to have been wrong. It's pretty pathetic, frankly.

[Power n Glory]

You're talking about one poster in particular. What's tiresome is the constant sniping and the obsession with zimm is pathetic. You mention him every time and even have other posters following your lead with that nonsense. He's not even here and your taking shots. Has nothing to do with football or Arsenal.

oh well....

[Letters]

I didn't mention zimm in that last post. I mentioned him in the previous one because he has been conspicuous by his absense during our good run and seems to actively want Arsenal to fail because he'd rather be shown to be right than see the team he purports to support to succeed. THAT is pathetic.

My previous post was about the moaning all summer and early this season in general which was constant, wearying and widespread from quite a few posters.

[Cripps_orig]

I didn't mention zimm in that last post. I mentioned him in the previous one because he has been conspicuous by his absense during our good run and seems to actively want Arsenal to fail because he'd rather be shown to be right than see the team he purports to support to succeed. THAT is pathetic.

My previous post was about the moaning all summer and early this season in general which was constant, wearying and widespread from quite a few posters.

There was plenty to moan about so whats the problem?

[Power n Glory]

I didn't mention zimm in that last post. I mentioned him in the previous one because he has been conspicuous by his absense during our good run and seems to actively want Arsenal to fail because he'd rather be shown to be right than see the team he purports to support to succeed. THAT is pathetic.

My previous post was about the moaning all summer and early this season in general which was constant, wearying and widespread from quite a few posters.

Doesn't change the fact that you keep mentioning him when he's not even here. It's sad. Bad enough we've got other posters doing it.

[fakeyank]

There was plenty to moan about so whats the problem?

:gp:

Exactly. We had a terrible summer.. we didnt get replacements till the last minute and suffered our worst defeat in more than 100 years! While we are doing very well this time, I'd hate to be someone taking pot shots at Zimm or the realists (some call them moaners). I have been AW's biggest critic and I still am... While having this awesome run is good, lets remember that pretty much every season we put an unbeaten 16-17 match run and then one sign of crack, opens the pandora's box. Realistically, we have had 2 major targets- PL, CL and 2 smaller ones- CC, FA Cup. We are out of contention for the PL and also out of top 4 position, out of the CC... CL is a long shot and FA cup seems to be the only one that we can win. So where are we as a top football club? Mid table with realistically a chance of one cup...

However having said that, I do see this team as being very similar to the 07/08 group... they look to play for the fans and work hard. That honestly is all you can ask from the players... give your best! If only AW had opened his eyes and got some experience in the previous seasons or more importantly gave a fuck about defending. My opinion is that we shouldnt be critical if the players are giving their best but if they are acting like divas or if AW doesnt acknowledge the faults in the team (in terms of tactics/signings) then the swords need to come out again!

[Letters]

5th is mid-table?

[Letters]

There was plenty to moan about so whats the problem?

The ridiculous hyperbole and disrespect/abuse Wenger got which IMO was over the top and unwarranted.

No-one thought things were rosy in the summer or early season and I feared Wenger had lost the dressing room but as much as Wenger deserves criticism for the tail end of last season, the summer and the start of this season he deserves credit for turning it around and we look like a team again and the players actually seem to be playing for Wenger and each other.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:gp:

Exactly. We had a terrible summer.. we didnt get replacements till the last minute and suffered our worst defeat in more than 100 years! While we are doing very well this time, I'd hate to be someone taking pot shots at Zimm or the realists (some call them moaners). I have been AW's biggest critic and I still am... While having this awesome run is good, lets remember that pretty much every season we put an unbeaten 16-17 match run and then one sign of crack, opens the pandora's box. Realistically, we have had 2 major targets- PL, CL and 2 smaller ones- CC, FA Cup. We are out of contention for the PL and also out of top 4 position, out of the CC... CL is a long shot and FA cup seems to be the only one that we can win. So where are we as a top football club? Mid table with realistically a chance of one cup...

However having said that, I do see this team as being very similar to the 07/08 group... they look to play for the fans and work hard. That honestly is all you can ask from the players... give your best! If only AW had opened his eyes and got some experience in the previous seasons or more importantly gave a fuck about defending. My opinion is that we shouldnt be critical if the players are giving their best but if they are acting like divas or if AW doesnt acknowledge the faults in the team (in terms of tactics/signings) then the swords need to come out again!

Nope. Zim and yourself are not realists. You are pessimists. You're always on the lookout for the worst possible scenario, and whenever a setback happens you validate your opinion. Ach on the other hand is an extremist. He has completely veered from Wenger and his team can do no wrong to the exact opposite - nothing inbetween whatsoever - a complete black and white world pretty much devoid of thought and objective analysis.

There are many things wrong with this team and contrary to what you would like, there are no easy answers, but there are positive too and anyone who has noticed what is going on can see that early assertions that Wenger has lost the dressing room (myself included) have been proved wrong. This team is working hard for Wenger and they are growing in belief. The only thing remaining to be determined is, can they do this at the business end of the season where so many Arsenal teams have failed in recent years. Regardless of what anyone wants, this Board is not getting rid of Wenger during the season, but if we do witness another business end collapse then I hope he goes. Right now though, I am pleased with what I'm seeing and am more optimistic than I have been for a number of years - a position I would not have envisioned back in May.

[Syn]

And it's interesting to note that the biggest moaners have barely posted here during our good run, you can bet you're bottom dollar the first setback or two and they'll be back like a shot. It's prett wearying.

For you it might have to be because you're a mod that needs to see all posts. For us mortals, we have the ignore function on this new board which allows you to skip over the pointless posts.

I think - to a certain extent - it's quite natural for there to be more to talk about when we're doing badly. How many regular posters have we got - 25? Well then we have 25 football managers that have an opinion about every substitution, tackle (no homo), interview....quite frankly, there are not many problems left to solve at the moment. I would say that Wenger hasn't solved the problems yet, but the problems are being solved and we're looking a more solid side as games go on. But when we do badly, there will be plenty of problems to solve and we'll all have our little theories.

[AKBapologist]

Wenger out. Let's get Coyle and bring in Cahill with him.

[Cripps_orig]

The ridiculous hyperbole and disrespect/abuse Wenger got which IMO was over the top and unwarranted.No-one thought things were rosy in the summer or early season and I feared Wenger had lost the dressing room but as much as Wenger deserves criticism for the tail end of last season, the summer and the start of this season he deserves credit for turning it around and we look like a team again and the players actually seem to be playing for Wenger and each other.Wenger deserved all he got. Everyone could see we had an absolute shocking last few months of the season and imo he should have walked in the summer. He didn't so we thought he must have finally seen sense and realised his way has been a failure. He didn't. He did nothing in the summer to fix our blatant and obvious problems knowing full well we had a CL qualifier and Liverpool and Mancs coming up in August. We scraped through the qualifier thankfully but as expected, got our asses handed to us by Liverpool and the less said about the Manc debacle, the better. He then realises that fans are turning and he panic buys and gets in some Pub Teamers and Mertesacker who I actually rate so kudos on Wenger for getting a signing right for once. Since then we had the Blackburn horror show and Spuds kicking our butts. Whilst we are on a decent run now, its happened before. Every season we go on a good run only to lose one game and then lose it mentally. We aren't winning the league this season. Its unlikely we'll finish top 4 either as I doubt Chelsea will remain as they are. CL we have no chance in which leaves the FA Cup. If we manage to avoid the Manc clubs and thankfully one will be out soon and get the luck of the draw then maybe we can do something there.Wenger has apparently already said he's not looking to get anyone in this January which if true and it probably is means he has learnt nothing. We need quality players. His way has failed. Move with the times or move on

[fakeyank]

Nope. Zim and yourself are not realists. You are pessimists. You're always on the lookout for the worst possible scenario, and whenever a setback happens you validate your opinion. Ach on the other hand is an extremist. He has completely veered from Wenger and his team can do no wrong to the exact opposite - nothing inbetween whatsoever - a complete black and white world pretty much devoid of thought and objective analysis.

There are many things wrong with this team and contrary to what you would like, there are no easy answers, but there are positive too and anyone who has noticed what is going on can see that early assertions that Wenger has lost the dressing room (myself included) have been proved wrong. This team is working hard for Wenger and they are growing in belief. The only thing remaining to be determined is, can they do this at the business end of the season where so many Arsenal teams have failed in recent years. Regardless of what anyone wants, this Board is not getting rid of Wenger during the season, but if we do witness another business end collapse then I hope he goes. Right now though, I am pleased with what I'm seeing and am more optimistic than I have been for a number of years - a position I would not have envisioned back in May.

For the first highlighted part, that is true unfortunately.. I cant talk for Zimm but I can tell you how I think: I want AW to prove me wrong and make this team title challengers but reality is different. We have been mismanaged for years now and realistically we are only fighting for a top 4 spot and have given up on even thinking about being champions of England... this is what Zimm, myself and a few other pessimists (as you say) have been saying. So unfortunately when what we have been saying does come true, we come out with the "I told you so" line... does proving right that we are not championship material make me happy? Does folding in March/April season after season due to non-signings, injuries etc every season make me happy? NO! I'd rather MS, vpig's version of events come out true and I can come here and apologize to every optimist! Heck, I'll buy you guys drinks and call you all master for a year!!**

As for the second highlighted part from your post... what are you optimistic about? I am very happy with how the team is doing but I can again see us winning nothing and somehow falling way behind the two Manchester clubs to be even competing until financial fair play kicks in i.e. unless the Arabs and Russians find a way around it (which they will for sure). Since our last trophy, I was most optimistic about 06 season coz of CL final then I was optimistic in 07/08 season when we led the table by 5 points in Feb, I was optimistic last season till March... as of now, I am not optimistic about what we are going to achieve. However, I am very very happy with the way the team is playing and fighting for each other. They are not as talented as previous years but they look to be playing for the club and fans. I am distinguishing between happiness and optimism, while you may be confused and taking your happiness for optimism (?)

** Only one round of drinks that are on specials that night :lol:

[Kano]

why does it matter what people say, as long as they are not being abusive? if you don't like the post, ignore and move on. i think it's far sadder to complain about someone else complaining - that makes no sense at all

[Letters]

Wenger deserved all he got.

No, he didn't. He deserved criticism, IMO he deserved to be sacked for the collapse at the tail end of last season but the disrespect and abuse? No, he didn't deserve that.

We didn't get our arses handed to us by Liverpool by the way, I went to that game and we matched them that day and but for Frimpong's over-exuberance we'd have got a point IMO. The Utd debacle...well, no-one is defending that and if it's the thing that made Wenger or the board or both see that we needed reinforcements then it was a blessing in disguise :ollie:

It's laughable to call the panic buys (I agree they were panic buys) pub teamers, several of the players we bought have started to make a real difference to the squad and you can see that in both the way we're playing and the results. We should have conducted all that business at the start of the summer, not the end, but overall I think we did some good business on deadline day.

Spurs did not kick our butts. I didn't see that game but everyone I know who did says it was an even game which we were a bit unlucky to lose - that final part was emailed to me by a Spurs fan whose judgement I generally trust. Spurs are a good side this year, frustratingly, their record this season is excellent and losing narrowly away to them is not a disaster. The Blackburn result was a bad one but it was early season when confidence was shot and before the new signings had much time to make any impact. Since then we've gone on a fantastic run, not a 'decent' run.

I'm not sure whether we'll finish top 4 but if we keep playing like we have more recently then we've got a chance and so long as the players give everything to try and achieve it then you'll get no complaints from me. If we don't then it'll be in part because of City buying their way into the top 4.

The big problem right now is our over-reliance on RvP for goals. If that is not addressed in January with a signing and he either gets injured or goes off the boil and we struggle in the 2nd half of the season then Wenger will deserve criticism. Right now Wenger deserves some credit for turning things around. I have no problem with people criticising Wenger or the board or whoever when things go wrong but some people on here have such a polarized view (or, in your case, pretend to) and it's pretty much impossible to have sensible debate with them.
About a year ago you defended Wenger tirelessly, he could do no wrong.
Now you criticise him tirelessly, he can do no right.
I don't believe anyone can switch from one extreme position to the other so quickly, both points of view are simplistic and obviously nonsensical. He's clearly a good manager, he clearly has flaws. The transfer window was a car crash (till deadline day), he's turned things around and now we're looking like a team again.

Your posts come across as attention seeking and WUMmish. You like certain players and they can do no wrong, if they have a good game you trumpet them loudly, if they play poorly you refuse to acknowledge it. Other players you're the complete opposite. There are no shades of grey in your posts and that makes it hard to take you seriously.

[LDG]

Moaning about moaning :bow:

:lol:

Meh.

As far as I see it; I want to be proud of the team, feel some connection with the club I love, and laugh at the teams I hate. I want to see decent football (not Barca shite, I mean decent football), commitment and loyalty. I want singing, and beer and a laugh. All it boils down to, is seeing my team do everything they can to win a football game.

For me, the manager and players didn't do that back end of last year, or early this year. They are now, and therefore I am happy.

The good thing is, if we carry on doing that, then we'll naturally end up challenging for honours. Aslong as AW builds on the foundations he's laid these last few months.

If he doesn't, then we're back to square one. So that's where the issue currently sits for me.

I don't care about winning silverware. And I certainly don't want us to buy it. So for me, it's about using what we have in the best possible way. This is something we haven't really done the last 6 years. Used our quality / money etc to the best of it's ability....which for me (especially last year) should have meant winning a trophy.

If we carry on as we have been, and carry on improving, I'm happy as Larry. Silverware or not.

[Letters]

For the first highlighted part, that is true unfortunately.. I cant talk for Zimm but I can tell you how I think: I want AW to prove me wrong and make this team title challengers but reality is different. We have been mismanaged for years now and realistically we are only fighting for a top 4 spot and have given up on even thinking about being champions of England... this is what Zimm, myself and a few other pessimists (as you say) have been saying. So unfortunately when what we have been saying does come true, we come out with the "I told you so" line... does proving right that we are not championship material make me happy? Does folding in March/April season after season due to non-signings, injuries etc every season make me happy? NO! I'd rather MS, vpig's version of events come out true and I can come here and apologize to every optimist! Heck, I'll buy you guys drinks and call you all master for a year!!**

As for the second highlighted part from your post... what are you optimistic about? I am very happy with how the team is doing but I can again see us winning nothing and somehow falling way behind the two Manchester clubs to be even competing until financial fair play kicks in i.e. unless the Arabs and Russians find a way around it (which they will for sure). Since our last trophy, I was most optimistic about 06 season coz of CL final then I was optimistic in 07/08 season when we led the table by 5 points in Feb, I was optimistic last season till March... as of now, I am not optimistic about what we are going to achieve. However, I am very very happy with the way the team is playing and fighting for each other. They are not as talented as previous years but they look to be playing for the club and fans. I am distinguishing between happiness and optimism, while you may be confused and taking your happiness for optimism (?)

** Only one round of drinks that are on specials that night :lol:

You're TEG, right? EDIT: Oh, FY, right? Well, it still applies as you're a similar age.
If so then you've grown up in an era when Arsenal have been one of the top 2 sides in the country and most seasons have ended with trophies.
Those of us who are a bit older remember that it wasn't always thus and those of us with any sense realised that it probably wouldn't always be so.

6 years without a trophy is a failure, I'd agree. A club at our level shouldn't go that long without winning anything.
But failing to compete with the Manchester clubs who both have far more resources than we do is not failure, IMO. Even Utd are struggling to compete with City this year, chuck half a billion at any club and you're going to get results. We should be competing with clubs like Spurs though.

IMO we've been far too cautious in the transfer market. I wouldn't want us to have a sugar-daddy, I don't want success that way, but we could and should have spent more. The frustrating thing is that Wenger's policy has very nearly succeeded. Despite the silly money being thrown around we have challenged for the title a couple of times and been at the latter stages of cup competitions on a few occasions. We've failed to finish the job and that is Wenger's failure. What annoys me is people acting like Wenger's this incompetent buffoon when he's clearly still a very good manager. His stubbornness has possibly cost us trophies but you don't finish top 4 every year in an era of billionaire owners and other clubs chucking silly money around by being completely useless.

Wenger seems to be looking long term. If financial regulations ever have any bite (doubtful, sadly) then we'll be sitting pretty. That still leaves the failure to win trophies of course and I hope Wenger is remembered the right way at Arsenal because before he came along we wouldn't be having this discussion because we weren't at the level Wenger has raised us to. That, and the new stadium, will always be his legacy.

[IBK]

Hmmmm - moaning about moaners. IMO there's too much reactionism on here. If people want to moan they are entitled to - isn't it part of the rich tapestry of a forum? Over optimism can be just as tedious, yet there are no orchestrated campaigns against the mindless optimists, are there? I don't see myself as a moaner, but its been very easy to feel down about our club at various times over the past 3 seasons, and was very difficult too look positively on it from March to September/October this year.

But (and I'm with LDG on this) - what seems to be happening now is that there is cause to feel positive about AFC whether we are in the frame for silverware or not. For me this presents a wierd contrast with even periods over the past 3 seasons where we were doing well - when there wasn't such a feel good factor as there is now, despite the likelihood of us having to scrap for 4th. Despite the fact that Sp*rs are above us.

So what's changed? Well for me the no. 1 difference is the attitude of our team. Our players look like they want to be there. From Sczcesny to Vermaelen; Koscielny; Jenks and Dench - who seem to be genuinely fans of the club; to Arteta and Benayoun - who have got as high as they are going to and want to make the best of it; to RVP who is, finally a proper captain and again genuinely seems to want to be here - we have players fighting for each other rather than playing for themselves - which unfortunately is what our key players did previously.

Next is our style of play - we have become more direct - with players like Gervinho; Santos and Walcott adding some excitement to our play. The Cesc inspired tippy tappy stuff was, frankly, boring, and I'm glad to see the back of it.

And finally, our manager seems happier and more relaxed than he has been for ages - its almost as though the strain of trying to keep players who ultimately would prefer to play elsewhere has been lifted, and he is benefitting from a second wind.

Still early days of course, and all isn't 100% (I worry that we won't buy the striker we need in Jan for instance) - but finally I feel we can enjoy following this team for the sake of it, and enjoying games (such as the Citeh CC game) even where we drop points. Long may it last.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger deserved all he got. Everyone could see we had an absolute shocking last few months of the season and imo he should have walked in the summer. He didn't so we thought he must have finally seen sense and realised his way has been a failure. He didn't. He did nothing in the summer to fix our blatant and obvious problems knowing full well we had a CL qualifier and Liverpool and Mancs coming up in August. We scraped through the qualifier thankfully but as expected, got our asses handed to us by Liverpool and the less said about the Manc debacle, the better. He then realises that fans are turning and he panic buys and gets in some Pub Teamers and Mertesacker who I actually rate so kudos on Wenger for getting a signing right for once. Since then we had the Blackburn horror show and Spuds kicking our butts. Whilst we are on a decent run now, its happened before. Every season we go on a good run only to lose one game and then lose it mentally. We aren't winning the league this season. Its unlikely we'll finish top 4 either as I doubt Chelsea will remain as they are. CL we have no chance in which leaves the FA Cup. If we manage to avoid the Manc clubs and thankfully one will be out soon and get the luck of the draw then maybe we can do something there.Wenger has apparently already said he's not looking to get anyone in this January which if true and it probably is means he has learnt nothing. We need quality players. His way has failed. Move with the times or move on

Thats your Opinion though, to the board he did what was needed and thats why he stayed on.

2nd bolded part. Wenger always says the same but common sense he will buy in Jan eveyone knows he needs too, he knows he needs too. Unless your in the mans head you can't know what he is thinking.

Do i think he should have walked in the summer, nope because whoever came in the result would have been the same. Should he walk this summer, if he fails again then yes.

[Letters]

Define 'fails'

[Xhaka Can’t]

Define 'fails'

Your Arsenal shirt.

[LDG]

Your Arsenal shirt.

:lol:

[Cripps_orig]

No, he didn't. He deserved criticism, IMO he deserved to be sacked for the collapse at the tail end of last season but the disrespect and abuse? No, he didn't deserve that.

We didn't get our arses handed to us by Liverpool by the way, I went to that game and we matched them that day and but for Frimpong's over-exuberance we'd have got a point IMO. The Utd debacle...well, no-one is defending that and if it's the thing that made Wenger or the board or both see that we needed reinforcements then it was a blessing in disguise :ollie:

It's laughable to call the panic buys (I agree they were panic buys) pub teamers, several of the players we bought have started to make a real difference to the squad and you can see that in both the way we're playing and the results. We should have conducted all that business at the start of the summer, not the end, but overall I think we did some good business on deadline day.

Spurs did not kick our butts. I didn't see that game but everyone I know who did says it was an even game which we were a bit unlucky to lose - that final part was emailed to me by a Spurs fan whose judgement I generally trust. Spurs are a good side this year, frustratingly, their record this season is excellent and losing narrowly away to them is not a disaster. The Blackburn result was a bad one but it was early season when confidence was shot and before the new signings had much time to make any impact. Since then we've gone on a fantastic run, not a 'decent' run.

I'm not sure whether we'll finish top 4 but if we keep playing like we have more recently then we've got a chance and so long as the players give everything to try and achieve it then you'll get no complaints from me. If we don't then it'll be in part because of City buying their way into the top 4.

The big problem right now is our over-reliance on RvP for goals. If that is not addressed in January with a signing and he either gets injured or goes off the boil and we struggle in the 2nd half of the season then Wenger will deserve criticism. Right now Wenger deserves some credit for turning things around. I have no problem with people criticising Wenger or the board or whoever when things go wrong but some people on here have such a polarized view (or, in your case, pretend to) and it's pretty much impossible to have sensible debate with them.
About a year ago you defended Wenger tirelessly, he could do no wrong.
Now you criticise him tirelessly, he can do no right.
I don't believe anyone can switch from one extreme position to the other so quickly, both points of view are simplistic and obviously nonsensical. He's clearly a good manager, he clearly has flaws. The transfer window was a car crash (till deadline day), he's turned things around and now we're looking like a team again.

Your posts come across as attention seeking and WUMmish. You like certain players and they can do no wrong, if they have a good game you trumpet them loudly, if they play poorly you refuse to acknowledge it. Other players you're the complete opposite. There are no shades of grey in your posts and that makes it hard to take you seriously.

Critisism, for sure. Abuse and disrespect? Probably not but after what hes done to this club the last couple of years, cant blame the younger generation for dishing out some abuse to the cunt.

I watched the Liverpool game and we were woeful. Liverpool werent much better admittedly but they always looked the more likely team to win. The Manc defeat was the lowest of the low and Wenger shouldnt have walked then but he should have been sacked. Knee jerk? i dont think so if you consider the previous 6 months. Wenger shouldnt have needed to panic buy. He should have got all his transfers sorted before the season so we could go in to the Liverpool and Manc games with a stronger squad than what we did. He failed to do his job.

Juries still very much out on our deadline day signings. Benayoun has been shite as expected. Arteta has pulled up no trees. Santos has looked good offensively, not so much defensively. Mertesacker has had some iffy moments. Add to that our earlier summer signings, Gervinho whos been hit and more miss and Jenkinson whos been woeful then its not all rosy.

I didnt watch the Spuds game either but from what i read/been told, they dominated for much of the 2nd half after we had a decent first half. Blackburn game was awful. That had little to do with signings settling in but more to do with Kos having a shocker of a game and Djorou being absolute shite. 2 players who should have been nowhere near the first team. Fair enough, Kos has picked it up a bit although at RB where hes out of the line of fire. I said decent run and not fantastic cos until the Chelsea game, we beat no one i didnt expect us to beat and even then we didnt look great in doing so. We then put in a performance v Chelsea and have played better since and got the results as well bar the Fulham game but as i said at the time, i wasnt upset about the draw v Fulham, we arent going to win every game.

I dont think we'll finish top 4. Top 2 is sorted. Chelsea will improve and no doubt buy in January like last season when they were similarly shit before xmas. Spuds look favourites to get that other spot. Yes City spending will have played a part but Wengers non spending will have played a bigger part and thats the thing Arsenal can do something about. We cant do anything about City.

I can see Wenger buying in January if we are still challenging for a top 4 spot. Previous history suggests he will. Jan 06, we were in a fight with Spuds and he goes out and gets Ade, Theo and Diaby. Jan 09, competing with Villa and he gets Arshavin. Wenger is more likely to spend in January if we are sturggling for top 4 than he is when going for the title as in neither 2008, 2010 0r 2011, did he spend in January when in a title race. Shows where his priorities lie imo and thats not good enough.

I can tell you the exact date i turned on Wenger. April 18th 2010, the date we lost 3-2 to Wigan. Few days previously, we had just lost to Spuds away for the first time in the league since god knows when. Spuds are a decent team. No shame losing away to them. However our title rivals Chelsea then go lose to Spuds on the saturday giving us another lifeline in the title race and as the optimist i was then, i thought Wenger would have the players fired up against Wigan. We produced a shite ass performance and deservedly lost, conceding 3 in the last 10 minutes. The following summer, he again doesnt get the quality we need and the 10/11 season turned out to be an embarrassing and humiliating one cos of it. My turn around was hardly quick. I was willing to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt especially as we started last season rather well and we were still in 4 competitons by February. Now, i didnt expect us to win the quadruple as most papers thought we would or even the treble or a double but i did expect us to win one. In the end we end up humiliated in all 4 competitions.

Your last paragraph can be said about most if not all the posters on here. Theo is a great example. Hes had a very good season but critisised no matter what by some posters. Im not going to name names cos i did so last time and one started crying and i think im now on his ignore list :lol: Winterburn was right about that in his article. Everyone has their favourites. Tbf, the only players we have/had that i wouldnt praise are Diaby and Bendtner and considering neither have ever given me anything to praise them about, id say its fair what im doing.

[Cripps_orig]

Thats your Opinion though, to the board he did what was needed and thats why he stayed on.

2nd bolded part. Wenger always says the same but common sense he will buy in Jan eveyone knows he needs too, he knows he needs too. Unless your in the mans head you can't know what he is thinking.

Do i think he should have walked in the summer, nope because whoever came in the result would have been the same. Should he walk this summer, if he fails again then yes.

And thats why the board gets just as much critisism as Wenger

Wenger has "needed" to buy quality for a few transfer windows and has failed to do that. Why would this be any different? We needed a striker in the summer. Not just any striker but a quality one. He buys Park. Need i say more?

I dont believe that. If Wenger went as he should have done, i think a new manager would have given us new impetus.

[LDG]

Critisism, for sure. Abuse and disrespect? Probably not but after what hes done to this club the last couple of years, cant blame the younger generation for dishing out some abuse to the cunt.

I watched the Liverpool game and we were woeful. Liverpool werent much better admittedly but they always looked the more likely team to win. The Manc defeat was the lowest of the low and Wenger shouldnt have walked then but he should have been sacked. Knee jerk? i dont think so if you consider the previous 6 months. Wenger shouldnt have needed to panic buy. He should have got all his transfers sorted before the season so we could go in to the Liverpool and Manc games with a stronger squad than what we did. He failed to do his job.

Juries still very much out on our deadline day signings. Benayoun has been shite as expected. Arteta has pulled up no trees. Santos has looked good offensively, not so much defensively. Mertesacker has had some iffy moments. Add to that our earlier summer signings, Gervinho whos been hit and more miss and Jenkinson whos been woeful then its not all rosy.

I didnt watch the Spuds game either but from what i read/been told, they dominated for much of the 2nd half after we had a decent first half. Blackburn game was awful. That had little to do with signings settling in but more to do with Kos having a shocker of a game and Djorou being absolute shite. 2 players who should have been nowhere near the first team. Fair enough, Kos has picked it up a bit although at RB where hes out of the line of fire. I said decent run and not fantastic cos until the Chelsea game, we beat no one i didnt expect us to beat and even then we didnt look great in doing so. We then put in a performance v Chelsea and have played better since and got the results as well bar the Fulham game but as i said at the time, i wasnt upset about the draw v Fulham, we arent going to win every game.

I dont think we'll finish top 4. Top 2 is sorted. Chelsea will improve and no doubt buy in January like last season when they were similarly shit before xmas. Spuds look favourites to get that other spot. Yes City spending will have played a part but Wengers non spending will have played a bigger part and thats the thing Arsenal can do something about. We cant do anything about City.

I can see Wenger buying in January if we are still challenging for a top 4 spot. Previous history suggests he will. Jan 06, we were in a fight with Spuds and he goes out and gets Ade, Theo and Diaby. Jan 09, competing with Villa and he gets Arshavin. Wenger is more likely to spend in January if we are sturggling for top 4 than he is when going for the title as in neither 2008, 2010 0r 2011, did he spend in January when in a title race. Shows where his priorities lie imo and thats not good enough.

I can tell you the exact date i turned on Wenger. April 18th 2010, the date we lost 3-2 to Wigan. Few days previously, we had just lost to Spuds away for the first time in the league since god knows when. Spuds are a decent team. No shame losing away to them. However our title rivals Chelsea then go lose to Spuds on the saturday giving us another lifeline in the title race and as the optimist i was then, i thought Wenger would have the players fired up against Wigan. We produced a shite ass performance and deservedly lost, conceding 3 in the last 10 minutes. The following summer, he again doesnt get the quality we need and the 10/11 season turned out to be an embarrassing and humiliating one cos of it. My turn around was hardly quick. I was willing to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt especially as we started last season rather well and we were still in 4 competitons by February. Now, i didnt expect us to win the quadruple as most papers thought we would or even the treble or a double but i did expect us to win one. In the end we end up humiliated in all 4 competitions.

Your last paragraph can be said about most if not all the posters on here. Theo is a great example. Hes had a very good season but critisised no matter what by some posters. Im not going to name names cos i did so last time and one started crying and i think im now on his ignore list :lol: Winterburn was right about that in his article. Everyone has their favourites. Tbf, the only players we have/had that i wouldnt praise are Diaby and Bendtner and considering neither have ever given me anything to praise them about, id say its fair what im doing.

tl;dr

[Letters]

Critisism, for sure. Abuse and disrespect? Probably not but after what hes done to this club the last couple of years, cant blame the younger generation for dishing out some abuse to the cunt.

Stopped reading after this.
More pointless WUMming, doesn't deserve to be read or responded to in depth.

[Cripps_orig]

Stopped reading after this.
More pointless WUMming, doesn't deserve to be read or responded to in depth.

:lol:

It was sarcasm

[Japan Shaking All Over]

To be honest for a moment I really felt Wenger had lost it, qs the wheels really came off at the end of last season and did not look like they were getting back on at the start of this.
I would not have been too disappointed to see him do the honourable thing and show himself the door. . !but that didnt happen and plenty other things did. . .two of our talismen chose the door and Wenger was left in the lurch. . .he may have played the off season a little better but that is in the past and in hindsight it may be said that what he did bring him as made us better than before. . . .

Because without question we are better, playing better, mentally better and work for each other much better!
Wenger is a lot of things, but a cu#t he is not because I do not think thst such a person could do what he has done for us.
We may not yet be the title challengers that some say we must become before they drop their animosity but we aint the mugs those same people say we are, not by a long shot. Old Trafford could have seriously damaged us mentally but Wenger went out and bought a crop of players that steadied that ship and I believe that the way he pkays the next transfer window is vital to our progress.

The run we are currently on, can only bring a smile to a Gooners face and if it doesnt there is something seriously wrong. . .Fulham showed we are human and there will be similar games but the team is played more direct, attractive balanced football. We will see some of the other have moments, Utd are scraping out 1 nils, Chelsea look beatable, Spurs are shit, just need to hope Citeh slow down!
Silverware in some form is a possibility if we continue the way we are but if not this year, I feel confident with the direction we are going, and I am happy to have that cu#t Wenger stay in charge!

[IBK]

To be honest for a moment I really felt Wenger had lost it, qs the wheels really came off at the end of last season and did not look like they were getting back on at the start of this.
I would not have been too disappointed to see him do the honourable thing and show himself the door. . !but that didnt happen and plenty other things did. . .two of our talismen chose the door and Wenger was left in the lurch. . .he may have played the off season a little better but that is in the past and in hindsight it may be said that what he did bring him as made us better than before. . . .

Because without question we are better, playing better, mentally better and work for each other much better!
Wenger is a lot of things, but a cu#t he is not because I do not think thst such a person could do what he has done for us.
We may not yet be the title challengers that some say we must become before they drop their animosity but we aint the mugs those same people say we are, not by a long shot. Old Trafford could have seriously damaged us mentally but Wenger went out and bought a crop of players that steadied that ship and I believe that the way he pkays the next transfer window is vital to our progress.

The run we are currently on, can only bring a smile to a Gooners face and if it doesnt there is something seriously wrong. . .Fulham showed we are human and there will be similar games but the team is played more direct, attractive balanced football. We will see some of the other have moments, Utd are scraping out 1 nils, Chelsea look beatable, Spurs are shit, just need to hope Citeh slow down!
Silverware in some form is a possibility if we continue the way we are but if not this year, I feel confident with the direction we are going, and I am happy to have that cu#t Wenger stay in charge!

Aye. Plus while it might have been mostly down to him that we got into the shit, I can't think of another manager who would have got us out of it as well as AW has...

[Letters]

Your Arsenal shirt.

lolz, jk, roffle, etc.

No, but seriously. What is failure this year?

Finishing below City isn't, IMO. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer force of spending.
Chelsea and Utd also have more resources than us so while I do think we should be challenging them I don't think finishing below them is a huge failure. Finishing below Spurs would be a failure though IMO, not just because of the rivalry, they're a big club but don't have the resources we do and while they've outspent us in the transfer market they can't match our wages, we really should be finishing above clubs like that.
Not winning a cup isn't neccessarily failure, depends who we get at what stage. A young side lost to City in the CC, that wasn't a failure - their reserves are people like Nasri and Dzeko.

[Joker]

The so called "moaners" have every right to question the direction the club is taking. Just because we've had a few victories doesn't mean we've turned the corner. The same deficiencies still exist (not enough quality in central midfield, low quality squad players, over-reliance on a few players) and they haven't disappeared just because we've beaten Wigan.

And it's untrue that the "moaners" have stopped posting now that we're on a good run. Most of them have contributed consistently and I've stressed that I still have the same reservations about Wenger and the squad that I had after the 8-2 defeat.

What's more annoying at times are the Pro-Wenger brigade who keep baiting those who hold more critical views, sometimes resorting to downright abuse and swearing just because the great man has been criticised.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Joker, which player would you say we are most over reliant upon?

[Joker]

Joker, which player would you say we are most over reliant upon?

Vermaelen, RVP and Chesney. I know I criticised RVP at the start of the season, but to be fair to him he's stepped up since September and has done really well.

[Cripps_orig]

The so called "moaners" have every right to question the direction the club is taking. Just because we've had a few victories doesn't mean we've turned the corner. The same deficiencies still exist (not enough quality in central midfield, low quality squad players, over-reliance on a few players) and they haven't disappeared just because we've beaten Wigan.

And it's untrue that the "moaners" have stopped posting now that we're on a good run. Most of them have contributed consistently and I've stressed that I still have the same reservations about Wenger and the squad that I had after the 8-2 defeat.

What's more annoying at times are the Pro-Wenger brigade who keep baiting those who hold more critical views, sometimes resorting to downright abuse and swearing just because the great man has been criticised.Pretty much but of course you wont hear anything said against that

[Cripps_orig]

lolz, jk, roffle, etc.

No, but seriously. What is failure this year?

Finishing below City isn't, IMO. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer force of spending.
Chelsea and Utd also have more resources than us so while I do think we should be challenging them I don't think finishing below them is a huge failure. Finishing below Spurs would be a failure though IMO, not just because of the rivalry, they're a big club but don't have the resources we do and while they've outspent us in the transfer market they can't match our wages, we really should be finishing above clubs like that.
Not winning a cup isn't neccessarily failure, depends who we get at what stage. A young side lost to City in the CC, that wasn't a failure - their reserves are people like Nasri and Dzeko.

Failure for me is Wenger not doing what needs to be done to get the best out of the club. At the moment, that imo is getting some quality players in January, sorting out defensive issues, playing faster attacking football, take the pressure of RVP shoulders in term of scoring.

Do all that and il be happy regardless of where we finish. If he does that though, we are guaranteed top 4 imo

[IBK]

lolz, jk, roffle, etc.

No, but seriously. What is failure this year?

Finishing below City isn't, IMO. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer force of spending.
Chelsea and Utd also have more resources than us so while I do think we should be challenging them I don't think finishing below them is a huge failure. Finishing below Spurs would be a failure though IMO, not just because of the rivalry, they're a big club but don't have the resources we do and while they've outspent us in the transfer market they can't match our wages, we really should be finishing above clubs like that.
Not winning a cup isn't neccessarily failure, depends who we get at what stage. A young side lost to City in the CC, that wasn't a failure - their reserves are people like Nasri and Dzeko.

Re Spurs - I catch your drift, but IMHO Twitchy is in it for short term gain, not long term success. Their great start to the season is mostly down to the knack the Redknapp has for doing good last minute deals - VDV last season and Greedy this. But long term planning it ain't. Plus they are beniffitting massively from non-participation in the CL, and throwing the Europa League. It wouldn't surprise me if they do finish above us this season (although they've been incredibly lucky with injuries/decisions so far, and there's no way the Likes of Ledley King are going to stay fit all season...and VDV will fade as usual come the New Year) but there's no way they are consistently going to be better than us, season on season.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fair enough, and good answer. As for the content of your earlier post, I've been wanting Wenger to go for well over a year and while I agree this place gets abusive and shouldn't I have considerable ire for those calling Wenger a cunt and those who actively track negatives. I also have no time for those who will ignore the fact that there are a lot of things wrong and are living in lala land.

It would be nice if people could concentrate on debating what is actually happening, take into context why it is happening and go from there. Too often 'debate' is stifled by trivial point scoring in an effort to support some pre conceived opinion regardless of the situation.

I'm not a mindless optimist nor am I a relentless moaner. Most people here aren't in either category either, but debate gets stifled either by those that do fall into those categories or accuse others of being in one camp or another.

[LDG]

Failure for me is Wenger not doing what needs to be done to get the best out of the club. At the moment, that imo is getting some quality players in January, sorting out defensive issues, playing faster attacking football, take the pressure of RVP shoulders in term of scoring.

Do all that and il be happy regardless of where we finish. If he does that though, we are guaranteed top 4 imo

I'd agree with that.

And like I said earlier. The reason why we failed the last 6 years is because we haven't done the best we could have done. That doesn't mean spending masses of money. It meanes doing what was necessary to complete the job.

I think lots of Gooners have always had that "trust in Wenger" attitude, because waht he did with us in the first place was magic. He also made some odd decisions which turned out to be well thought out.

But he buggered that up to the point where many Arsenal fans didn't believe the guff anymore.

What I do think, however, is that he has gone back to basics just recently and I hope and pray that he continues this by buying in January.

[Letters]

The so called "moaners" have every right to question the direction the club is taking.

Well sure, we all questioned that this summer.

It's hardly a 'few victories' now, is it? It's P16 W12 D2 L2. The two defeats were Spurs away (disappointing but, like it or not, Spurs are a good side this year and as I said a Spurs fan told me we were a little unlucky to lose) and City at home in which we put out a young side and with the quality of City's 'reserves' it was a big ask to get a result - even then I thought we played well and matched them for much of the game. We've definitely turned a corner from where we were early season. Wigan are a poor side, but Blackburn are too. We lost at Blackburn, we cantered to a win at Wigan. We should be winning those games of course but the point is we are. Early season we weren't.
Whether that change continues remains to be seen but they look like a team again, look like they're playing for each other and for the manager and look like they care.

I don't think there is a strong Pro-Wenger brigade in the sense you seem to be implying. If you think there are people on here who think Wenger can do no wrong and that everything is perfect at the club then I've not seen any evidence of that. There are people, I'm one of them, who don't buy into the view which some on here spout that Wenger is a bumbling idiot who can't do anything right, take EVERY opportunity to snipe at him and refuse to give him any credit for the clear improvement in the last few months.

Wenger has faults, there are clear concerns about the squad (IMO the big problem being strength in depth up front) and I hope Wenger addresses those in January. If he doesn't and we suffer as a result he will be responsible for that. As ever, it's the lack of a middle ground and shades of grey in some people's opinions which I find wearying.

[Letters]

Failure for me is Wenger not doing what needs to be done to get the best out of the club. At the moment, that imo is getting some quality players in January, sorting out defensive issues, playing faster attacking football, take the pressure of RVP shoulders in term of scoring.

Do all that and il be happy regardless of where we finish. If he does that though, we are guaranteed top 4 imo

Well, I agree with all that.

See, you can do it when you try! :hug:

[Cripps_orig]

Well, I agree with all that.

See, you can do it when you try! :hug:

I didnt read it tbh

Someone read what i wrote and post a summary

[LDG]

:lol:

[Letters]

Re Spurs - I catch your drift, but IMHO Twitchy is in it for short term gain, not long term success. Their great start to the season is mostly down to the knack the Redknapp has for doing good last minute deals - VDV last season and Greedy this. But long term planning it ain't. Plus they are beniffitting massively from non-participation in the CL, and throwing the Europa League. It wouldn't surprise me if they do finish above us this season (although they've been incredibly lucky with injuries/decisions so far, and there's no way the Likes of Ledley King are going to stay fit all season...and VDV will fade as usual come the New Year) but there's no way they are consistently going to be better than us, season on season.

Oh I agree twitchy doesn't think long term, he left Portsmouth in all kinds of shit.
But like it or not he has built a good squad at Spurs and loathe as I am to admit it they do look good right now.
I think push come to shove we are capable of finishing above them. We've been there and done it plenty of times before and towards the end of the season when the pressure builds I'm not sure they'll finish the job. Also, we have got a lot of our tough away games out of the way already, I think they still have some of them to come.

[Dog Toffee]

Considering we are going to win the league, I think we will finish above Spurs no problem.

[IBK]

Oh I agree twitchy doesn't think long term, he left Portsmouth in all kinds of shit.
But like it or not he has built a good squad at Spurs and loathe as I am to admit it they do look good right now.
I think push come to shove we are capable of finishing above them. We've been there and done it plenty of times before and towards the end of the season when the pressure builds I'm not sure they'll finish the job. Also, we have got a lot of our tough away games out of the way already, I think they still have some of them to come.

Agreed, they look good right now - but then so do we - so a lot of it is down to how injuries feature later in the season...

[Kano]

lolz, jk, roffle, etc.

No, but seriously. What is failure this year?

Finishing below City isn't, IMO. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer force of spending.
Chelsea and Utd also have more resources than us so while I do think we should be challenging them I don't think finishing below them is a huge failure. Finishing below Spurs would be a failure though IMO, not just because of the rivalry, they're a big club but don't have the resources we do and while they've outspent us in the transfer market they can't match our wages, we really should be finishing above clubs like that.
Not winning a cup isn't neccessarily failure, depends who we get at what stage. A young side lost to City in the CC, that wasn't a failure - their reserves are people like Nasri and Dzeko.

not putting out a stronger side in the CC was a failure, despite how well the reserves stepped up. Not winning a trophy is a failure, as it should be the target of our club every single season. I couldn’t care less about trophies, as i enjoy the buzz of watching a game and excitement of the season but the players, staff and executives at arsenal should all deem it as a failed season when we only achieve top 4 status, and i think they do.

[Dog Toffee]

A stronger side may well have still lost to City, and was it worth risking injury to key players when we're still in the PL, Cl and FA cup?

With the form we're in atm, I think we can finish 3rd, and 4th quite easily.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Failure for me is Wenger not doing what needs to be done to get the best out of the club. At the moment, that imo is getting some quality players in January, sorting out defensive issues, playing faster attacking football, take the pressure of RVP shoulders in term of scoring.

Do all that and il be happy regardless of where we finish. If he does that though, we are guaranteed top 4 imo

This...

[Olivier's xmas twist]

not putting out a stronger side in the CC was a failure, despite how well the reserves stepped up. Not winning a trophy is a failure, as it should be the target of our club every single season. I couldn’t care less about trophies, as i enjoy the buzz of watching a game and excitement of the season but the players, staff and executives at arsenal should all deem it as a failed season when we only achieve top 4 status, and i think they do.

Can't agree with that, Wenger has done the same thing for the last 6 seasons playing a balanced team, why change that now. We should have beat them with the team put out.

We still go the fa cup to fight for lets hope we win that.

[Cripps_orig]

A stronger side may well have still lost to City, and was it worth risking injury to key players when we're still in the PL, Cl and FA cup?

With the form we're in atm, I think we can finish 3rd, and 4th quite easily.

Spuds are in even better form and have the better squad so i reckon they think the same.

Actually they are going for the title whilst we are stuck trying to get top 4.

The tide has turned

[Dog Toffee]

No, they're utterly deluding themselves talking about winning the PL, its City's already. Its just the same old Sperz rhetoric 'North London is ours now etc..' Come May we will have the last laugh.

Edit- a five point difference and we're barely into december, thats hardly much to worry about. If it wasnt for our awful start to the season we'd be up with United and City.

[Kano]

Can't agree with that, Wenger has done the same thing for the last 6 seasons playing a balanced team, why change that now.

because of the opposition. because of our no chance of winning the pl. or the cl. because of wanting to make up for last seasons debacle.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Spuds are in even better form and have the better squad so i reckon they think the same.

Actually they are going for the title whilst we are stuck trying to get top 4.

The tide has turned

Are they, is that why their manager and fans keep bleating on about how the top 4 should be theirs and all that. I agree our ambitions should be stronger.

Though if Wenger said tommrow He thinks we can win the league this season, He'd be called a mad man yes or no.

Sometimes no matter what he does he will cop it.

[Letters]

Spurs aren't going for the title. :lol:
And their form is pretty much the same as ours.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

because of the opposition. because of our no chance of winning the pl. or the cl. because of wanting to make up for last seasons debacle.

i see where your coming from, but with the sqaud at that game we should have won, If we were away then it might be eaiser yo play more of the big guns.
Had our stikers took their chances we'd have won that game.

I don't belive Wenger sacrficed that trophy for a top 4 finish.

[Marc Overmars]

No, they're utterly deluding themselves talking about winning the PL, its City's already. Its just the same old Sperz rhetoric 'North London is ours now etc..' Come May we will have the last laugh.

Edit- a five point difference and we're barely into december, thats hardly much to worry about. If it wasnt for our awful start to the season we'd be up with United and City.

If it wasn't for Wigan's awful start, they'd be up there too.

[Dog Toffee]

^ Im embarrassed for you.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm embarrassed for you as well, with a face like that.

[Ollie the Optimist]

with our start we were lucky to get top half not top four. its decemeber now and we are two points off top four. that is a massive turnaroud and one i am proud off. wenger deserves so much credit for that because he has got the stadium full of fans again beliveing because he has given us a team that we are proud off, one that will fight to win and not give up. other teams ahve been better then us, dortmund for example but we took four points off them. why? because we wanted it more.
the chelsea game showed to me that wenger turned it around. equaliser with ten minutes left to go, we would have normally dropped our heads and tbh lost. we didnt, we wanted the win. we got the win (thanks to big man :haha: )
something has changed since the 8-2, and thats pride to be wearing the shirt. look at jack, he loves the club, chesney singing with fans, jenkinson is a gooner, rvp is captain and a gooner, seen videos of him as a young boy syaing he wants to play for us. frimpong is another gooner. we have fans playing for us which helps.

the scum wont win the league, and they arent going for it either, its their deluded fans after winning a few games thinking they are the best team ever to have played football. they havnt played anyone of note bar us and city. both at home tbf, beat us but it took mike dean not blowing for a blatent fucking handball by van der vaart to score.