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Subtle, Arsene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal.com
He might not be at his ‘best’ at 29-33, he can still be fucking good. Particularly if that striker doesn’t really rely on pace and strength like a Drogba but more on intelligence and technique.
(Hope the bold text really helps the message sink in. Any feedback would be much appreciated xx).
RVP :wave:
The people that argue that Wenger is getting screwed by the board need to pay attention to these sort of statements.
Just as people need to understand that Wenger works for the board and does their bidding. The board cannot wash their hands and claim they are leaving the financial affairs of the club to the manager and I don't think they even try to do that. Only some of the fans seem to entertain such an implausible idea.
It just demonstrates why we have come up short year after year, it has been about money, not trophies. It's also about Wenger's and the board's definition of competing at the top - in fact he uses the word "surviving" which is enough in itself to tell us everything. This would all be okay of at the same time the highest ticket prices in the world were not being demanded. That's the part none of them want to square away. 4th place is definitely viewed as a major achievement by the executives. Several key players have already disagreed with this policy by moving on. It would be hard to imagine any fan saying 4th was an achievement in terms of being "at the top". It irritates even more because we were so close on several occasions but refused to spend that little bit extra. The board wants a profit in the transfer window, Wenger gets them a profit, we get no trophies, that's the story. Their plan to let fair play compensate for their miserly approach was always doomed. And they must have known that. It was always just a stupid excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntos Claus
3 things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
1: I don't think 'money' is the reason we've missed out on trophies. I don't think cup trophies are a good indicator of how well a team is doing. I think that only really is determined by league position. But we have had plenty of opportunities to lift a cup/league and the players in the squad have been good enough ability-wise...but the mentality has been fragile and that's the reason we've missed out. We might've nabbed a couple of trophies with a bit more luck too but I don't think a lack of investment is the main reason.
2: It is true that we could have done (and could be doing) a lot better on the pitch if we at least get back what we make in terms of transfers. In recent seasons we've seen only a fraction of the £41m from the sales of Adebayor and Toure and £70m odd gained from Clichy, Fabregas, Nasri sales being invested. Liverpool lose Torres, they've got Suarez and Carroll straight in. Tottenham spend a lot but they're using money gained from transfer sales (Berbatov, Carrick or whoever). And if we're not going to see replacements for our best players leaving, at least take £10m and shove it in Van Persie's wallet. If the other players in the squad don't like it - tell them they can have the same if they start netting better than a goal a game.
3: Wenger's words here are not the words of a football manager. He's talking about players like assets. He's only concerned with re-sale value. I think it's very clear what Wenger's job at the club is. Most football managers are given a maximum budget to spend and told to maximise on-field success. Wenger's job is to maximise profits with the constraint that we have to be in the top 4. If Wenger's job was to maximise on-field success with a £70m budget, he'd gladly piss away £10m on Van Persie...as would anyone. Wenger is carrying out the work of his employers and doing it very well - which is why they're all happy with him and why Wenger is paid 'handsomely'.
That's a fair enough point on trophies, but I see a trophy (at least a significant one) as the sum of all the parts coming together to achieve more than that sum, the extra edge. And when anything is lacking that means it has to be compensated for in other areas. We tried to get away with a lack of experience by playing kids. We tried to cater for injuries by having sub-standard replacements. It all adds up and counts against you in the end. And it's just a bad message to be sending around the club, 2nd best (or 4th best as the case may be).
The transfer thing and the ambitions of the club we agree on. Both a scandal. Now we're playing some decent football again I've pushed it to the back of my mind - probably saving it up for the summer. I won't be so disappointed if we don't do any business in January because it's pretty difficult to find suitable players mid season. But if we let RvP leave in the summer and replace him with a cut-price option so the board can pocket the rest, I'll definitely sulk a lot.
He does his job but that statement there shows a serious flaw in his philosophy. His argument about player value and peak performances is something only a football manager could asses. It worries me that he can talk like his when we're negotiating a new deal for RVP who will pass his peak soon. If RVP wants more money and the Board ask Wenger if he thinks he's worth the wages, the last thing you want to hear from Wenger is the above. He justifies the sale of key players with such talk and doesn't make the counter argument that the sale of key players and lack of consistency has damaged our chances. We can't keep swapping and changing key playere like this. He shoudln't be talking like this. With such talk, you now know why he won't agree to the sale of a player Chamakh and top up RVP's wages with the money saved. As I've always thought, if Wenger doesn't think a player is worth it, he won't budge on price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
To be fair we're doing just as well having had a mass clearout as we've done persuading players to hang on, we'll still probably finish 4th this year. And we'll still have the highest ticket prices in the world. There's a flaw in his philosophy IF it is his philosophy as opposed to his job description. Employees talk shit on behalf of their shy bosses all the time - in public at least. Few will say anything to upset those bosses. If Wenger is being paid £6mill a year to finish 4th, develop players and flog them for a profit then he's doing that job monotonously well. The question is, does he set his own job description? And if he does, we have to assume the board sees eye to eye with him. But in reality it's a lot more realistic to assume he's doing what he's told, just like any other employee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Money spent on certain players would have made some difference. Unlimited money - like Chavs and Citeh d0 makes a big difference in that you can buy the matured product straight from the shelf and managing then becomes just a question of matchday tactics. Limited money means you have to also balance the books and therefore have to manage more in the traditional sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntos Claus
However, the reason for our failures was that we had not bought backbone players - not necessarily players with the ultimate top skills but ones with resilience and leadership qualities who also have good enough skills to perform as well. Wenger did not do this in the first few years of the 'experiment' - for whatever reason - and we ended up with a lot of players of great potential but fragile as a team, causing the collapses when we got past 2/3rds of the season.
Now whether he has got the board to agree to something he wanted to do, whether he has 'seen the light' or the 'error of his ways', this summer's purchase of experienced players has produced a more resililent squad. As soon as the backbone was added to the squad, the change was immediately obvious in result terms. We did not go out and spend silly sums on big name players, we just went and bought some experience to glue together the players we have so they stick at it when we are having poor games.
As far as the old chestnut posted by other GWers of the board not wanting trophies, just a top 4 place - that is utter crap. While we do need to try and finish in the top four to get the extra revenue, if we do not win the occasional trophy, then that will also cost the club financially in the long run as the support drops away. Top four is important as no Arsenal supporter in their right mind would want us not to get what money was available. But trophies are important whether you are a basic supporter, member of the board, shareholder, or any mercenary just in it for the money. All still need trophy success to fullfill their wishes.