Has Rogers enjoyed a perfect storm?

First - I want Liverpool to win the league, and Rogers has made me envious of his management skills as against our conservative manager.

No-one can doubt that Rogers has benefitted from no European football; Suarez staying against the odds, and injuries that his small squad has been able to ride - not to mention exploiting the rare weak spots of Manure, the Chavs and Citeh in a way that we have abjectly failed to do.

But I wonder whether Rogers' most potent fortune has been lack of expectation. They finished 7th last year - on the type of form which would probably have seen Liverpool 5th in this season's conditions - even without a step change. Has this allowed him the freedom to experiment with new formations and young players - which may not have been there had he (like us) had more to aim for than just top four?

Same here, I'd much rather Liverpool win it if we can't.

I'm not completely sold Rodgers though, as some already are - nowhere near enough evidence in place yet. All the things you point out have gone in his favour, though he had to take advantage rather than waste it, and he has so it's not a criticism. But his defence is still woeful and the last couple of games have shown what could happen if key injuries cropped up or the strikers lost form. I know they won both matches, but the extremes evident over the course of 180 minutes suggest things could go wrong just as quickly as they have gone right this season. Summer is just as important for them as it is for us.

Most likely. Everything's worked out perfectly for them: Chelsea, Citeh and Us not being ready for it and suffering abject runs in form, no European football to worry about, no long term injuries to any of their potent attacking quintet and, something that gets overlooked, because of their league positions the last few season, opposition teams not being as scared initally to play football against them and not as forthcoming to employ "park the bus" tactics. Things that hopefully they won't have next season.

However history won't remember any of this and instead will have them crowned as champions of the 13/14 and to be honest they deserve it fully. Despite all the favourable outcomes they've had, they've also had some negative challenges to overcome such as not being able to attract the same calibre of players that the CL teams can and not having the same finances as us.

Rodgers should get the manager of the year award and Suarez player of the year. I just hope both of them get poached by others team before next season. There's talk about Rodgers going to Barca - hope that comes true.

Of course things have gone in their favour but that's usually the case when you're at the top. I didn't see anyone predicting Liverpool to win the league at the start of the season by virtue of all these bullet points people have quickly started to attach to them now they're likely to do it.

They've been great and Rodgers has done a brilliant job. Things will be different for them next season undoubtedly, but I still see what they've done as damning for us - even if it does turn out to be a fluke.

Irks somewhat when their team is comprised of players Wenger himself could have signed......and yes even Suarez...... and even the much maligned and one time Arsenal player, Kolo Toure!

He could have easily have signed Sturridge, Sterling, Suarez, Coutinho....pretty much any number of them apart from Gerrard, so Rodgers does deserve credit. He doesn't have to be hailed as a genius but credit nonetheless is due. Even some of their better players of past like Alonso, Wenger could have signed if you believe reports about the 4million odd discrepancy between our value and the selling clubs.

Marc Overmars' point is an excellent one.

I'm not sure I really get the point that rivals haven't been ready. Obviously United are shit this season, but compared to last season everyone is doing better than they were in terms of points.

The lack of European football I can agree with. That has no doubt helped us, but equally we made our squad on the basis that we didn't have those extra games. The likes of Borini, Suso, Assaidi, Ilori, Robinson, Wisdom probably wouldn't have been loaned out and our transfers would surely have been different too. Just as this summer we will no doubt buy accordingly, hopefully with a bit more freedom in terms of wages and attracting them in the first place. Hopefully that will include a DM and full backs.

And for the long injuries we've avoided in attack, we've had them in defence. You could say that's just as important, since a solid defence is based just as much on having a settled unit. Enrique has been out most of the season, Johnson was out for a while, Agger is made of glass and Sakho was out for a long period too. Only Skrtel has been a constant and he's phenomenally inconsistent. Hence relying on Cissokho, Toure and Flanagan, who has been a bit of a revelation.
It's away from home where our defence, and performances, have been pretty terrible.

Next season we probably won't be as we were this season. We probably will fin it far tougher with European football. We might well have more injuries than this season. But all of this season people were convinced we would barely make top 4, then it was that we didn't have the squad to cope during a season, then it was that we might not have the mentality to keep going, then it was that we can't beat the top teams, then it was that we were a one man team, then it was that we wouldn't keep on scoring, then it was that we would bottle it.

It's odd that everyone [as in not just gw] claims we deserve to be where we are, the proceed to rattle off a bunch of reasons why we don't.

I don't even care if this is an anomaly. Compared to the shite of the last few years I'll take it.

And of course, nothing has been won yet.

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Originally Posted by Borini Is Boss

I'm not sure I really get the point that rivals haven't been ready. Obviously United are shit this season, but compared to last season everyone is doing better than they were in terms of points.

The lack of European football I can agree with. That has no doubt helped us, but equally we made our squad on the basis that we didn't have those extra games. The likes of Borini, Suso, Assaidi, Ilori, Robinson, Wisdom probably wouldn't have been loaned out and our transfers would surely have been different too. Just as this summer we will no doubt buy accordingly, hopefully with a bit more freedom in terms of wages and attracting them in the first place. Hopefully that will include a DM and full backs.

And for the long injuries we've avoided in attack, we've had them in defence. You could say that's just as important, since a solid defence is based just as much on having a settled unit. Enrique has been out most of the season, Johnson was out for a while, Agger is made of glass and Sakho was out for a long period too. Only Skrtel has been a constant and he's phenomenally inconsistent. Hence relying on Cissokho, Toure and Flanagan, who has been a bit of a revelation.
It's away from home where our defence, and performances, have been pretty terrible.

Next season we probably won't be as we were this season. We probably will fin it far tougher with European football. We might well have more injuries than this season. But all of this season people were convinced we would barely make top 4, then it was that we didn't have the squad to cope during a season, then it was that we might not have the mentality to keep going, then it was that we can't beat the top teams, then it was that we were a one man team, then it was that we wouldn't keep on scoring, then it was that we would bottle it.

It's odd that everyone [as in not just gw] claims we deserve to be where we are, the proceed to rattle off a bunch of reasons why we don't.

I don't even care if this is an anomaly. Compared to the shite of the last few years I'll take it.

And of course, nothing has been won yet.

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I still think it's entirely reasonable to cite areas where Liverpool have had a favourable ride, just as much as we lay into Wenger for his shortcomings, as in the most part, it's true. That's not to take anything away from them or Rogers.

I mean, what are you supposed to do in his position? Go with it, and use every means at your disposal to win the bloody thing, or request a handicap?

I happen to think they've been brilliant to watch, and if they do win it, they will have deserved to. No doubt about it.

It says just as much about the other teams failures, in many differing ways.

You still have to hold your nerve, and Rogers has been able to do that with his team better than anybody else. In many ways, that means a great deal more than just the relative ability of teams, as has been shown over the last month/s.

The gypo and chav in transition stuff is total nonsense. They make the concious decision to sack their managers every 5 minutes so it's not at all legitimate to then offer this lack of stability as a reason why another team finishes above them. That would be the same as saying they aren't top because they shot all their players. Real reason is because both these clubs are a laughing stock and not proper football clubs. Fair enough, Utd have been Moyes'd but I wonder if even Fergie could have propped up that bunch of average joes for another season? As for us - we're always in transition because we have, or had, a policy of selling everything that wasn't nailed down. And we would have sold the nailed down stuff too but we were too cheap to buy a claw hammer.

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Originally Posted by LDG

I still think it's entirely reasonable to cite areas where Liverpool have had a favourable ride, just as much as we lay into Wenger for his shortcomings, as in the most part, it's true. That's not to take anything away from them or Rogers.

I mean, what are you supposed to do in his position? Go with it, and use every means at your disposal to win the bloody thing, or request a handicap?

I happen to think they've been brilliant to watch, and if they do win it, they will have deserved to. No doubt about it.

It says just as much about the other teams failures, in many differing ways.

You still have to hold your nerve, and Rogers has been able to do that with his team better than anybody else. In many ways, that means a great deal more than just the relative ability of teams, as has been shown over the last month/s.

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Of course. We've had our fair share of luck just as we've had things go against us. Not a coincidence that the lucky teams tend to be the ones at the top though. As if we're the only team to have had luck go their way. If you ignore the ones who see us as the bestest westest, "win it for Gerrard" etc that literally the only reason we are where we are is because of Suarez, penalties and luck. Lucky penalties. Lucky penalties from Suarez dives. And apart from those, we have a terrible squad and have just happened to stumble into a title race with a front line we just happened to come across, playing football we just happened to play. Just like with the injuries argument. And then it turns out that we actually have had injuries, the likes of Chelsea have had even fewer and that what is actually meant is "Suarez hasn't been injured... all of those who were injured? crap anyway". Well if you look throughout his career it doesn't look like he's missed many games through injury at all so it's not as if we lucked out on that. And though I grant you this is a very cursory glance at wikipedia, it doesn't look as if Henry missed many league games for you either.

I think at least some of it is down to people thinking we have come from nowhere and there is a sense of disbelief that we could possibly challenge. And that if we can do it, why haven't [insert team] do it too? And if that team can't do it, then there must be some other reason why Liverpool have. Things not in their control.

I don't think Rodgers is some sort of genius. I don't think anyone does yet. Some of his ramblings are annoying and middle management-y but what he's done hasn't been complicated. As much as it is down to preparation and hard work, it's nothing that hasn't been done before. And it's totally fair that he (and we) should be viewed over a longer period, and I'm sure he'd agree with that. In between talking about focus groups. I'm not blind, I know we aren't the greatest team ever and we have some pretty big deficiencies but at the same time we've won something like 11 on the bounce and haven't lost since our wheels apparently came off in the games just after Christmas. Maybe those terrible, awful players like Henderson and Johnson aren't as bad as people think.

And yes I will say it again just so I don't get ahead of myself and jinx it all. Nothing won yet.

Fair play.

I really don't mean to take anything away from them. Seriously. And it's not so much the injuries for me, as the fewer amount of games, meaning more rest.

The match that made me look again, was vs City on boxing day, where the way you lot played made me little bit jealous. You really fucked them up, and I think that was the springboard....