Does Arteta really have favourites?

So it's become accepted fact that our manager has favourite players. This shouldn't be a surprise - there will always be players that any manager favours over others. But in Arteta's case, it tends to be used as a stick to beat him with - particular given many fans apathy to his 'constants' - or near-constants - such as Willian, Xhaka or Luis who polarise opinion like few players we have had in the past.

But is this really true - in the sense that the accusation tends to be made against Arteta - as opposed to him being invested in a system that he feels require certain players?

You can make a case against this supposed managerial weakness.

First and foremost, I am certain that there is no manager (or precious few) who won't be regarded as favouritist by fans who will naturally look to the players who aren't playing when things aren't going weel. Funny how these issues seldom arise when a team is flying high. It is human nature to look to potential alternatives as a panacea - whether or not 'frozen out' players would actually solve problems (they benefit by never being put to the test). If we look at Arteta's high profile 'rejects' - Ozil; Guendouzi and Torreira - none of them are doing much to prove Arteta wrong at their current clubs (as far as I am aware).

Same goes for AMN at West Brom (who is hardly showing he was right to want a MF place).

Martinelli is a player we all want to see play - as he is exciting and has a quickness that we often lack - but he had a serious long term injury and broke down again after 4 matches back in January. He didn't pull up any trees in the Manure draw at home. Is there any compelling case for him to start instead of, say, Pepe? (I deal with Willian below)

Pepe seems to be improving, and I can see the argument for giving him a run of games. But he is a wild card, and it is not necessrily favouritism of other players that is keeping him out of some games.

Saliba is a strange one - to put it mildly - but it's not necessarily unfair prejudice on the manager's part to think that a player - particularly a defender -so young is not what we needed this season.

Xhaka - I've said it elsewhere - there is basically noone else for the manager to play. He makes mistakes and costs points (as does Luis), but when he plays well he is not only our second best MF, but Partey has not stayed fit enough for the manager to build his team around.

So...the elephant in the room. Willian has stunk the place up for most of the season. But recent performances have shown a greater level of competence and while he has hardly set the worls on fire, with a manager who wants possession football and is clearly aiming for control of games it is possible to see how he is regarded as a useful recycler of the ball (I still don;t really like/rate the player, but I can see - just about - how Willian fits in with how Arteta wants us to play.

Now the positive - Arteta has done more than any manager in recent times to give young talent its chance in non-cup matches. He has a big squad and has done a reasonable job of keeping players interested - a crucial task particularly in a congested season. He has 4 interchangeable CB's and has used, and arguably improved the likes of Cedric; Mari and Holding - the latter despite his supposed favoured place for Luis.

So is the narrative really true, or is what has happened at Arsenal no different to what goes on at most clubs with a lot of players?

Thoughts?

he absolutely has favourites and it's never based on in-game performances but BS like 'good in the dressing room / good in training' etc.

basically if you run around enough traffic cones and play teacher's pet he'll play you, if you don't you're out

Yes.

You only have to look at the way he reacted to Pepe’s red card against Leeds in then post match interview where he heavily criticised Pepe (rightly so, Pepe was an idiot there)

However, a few days later, Xhaka does exactly the same (and this isn’t exactly his first offence) and Arteta says nothing. Pepe was dropped and didn’t come back into the side for weeks yet Xhaka went straight back into the side after his ban.

Again with Pepe, Arteta says he wont play him as he wasnt delivering (but giving him a few sub appearances & then an odd start expecting an MOTM performance is a huge ask) yet he kept playing Willian who failed to deliver in every game.

I don't think Arteta has favourites but he seems to be tied up, maybe contractually? For me, we have better alternatives to Luiz. Mari should be played more and Saliba should have been given a chance in a team rather than a proven liability like Luiz.

If Arteta feels certain players are required for certain situations the results definitely speak for themselves. The fact that a good number of us could see what was happening when he basically dumped Saliba and kept the likes Mustafi in front of him. To me that is poor management and the sign of a Mourinho-style manager who will blackball perfectly good players to the detriment of the team.

I don't care about whether he is favouritist or not. I want Arsenal to be back playing CL and challenging for the Premier League.

Basically having Luiz as the first player on the list clearly shows Arteta doesn't care about winning. If he played Saliba or other youngsters instead I would support him because it shows he is trying something different. If it fails, I would expect him to try something else, but not go back to tried and tested failures.

OK Guendouzi is a hothead who needs to improve, Torreira is easily wrested off the ball and Ozil was shite on a regular basis. But surely they deserved a run when we were piss poor? I don't see what they are doing now has any relevance. Saliba is pulling up trees, AMN has gone quiet at WBA just like Gnabry.

Martinelli should be being fast tracked to be Auba's replacement and it's probably too late now but Balogun should be getting some game time.

Pepe is a confidence player and needs lots of it. He's good enough to warrant the odd start.

Willian was a waste of time and money although he can be devastating on his day, but that day was long ago.

Agree about Xhaka - there is noone else to play. We know he makes mistakes and even getting a basic British Isles midfielder, think Henderson or Shelvey, coming to the end of his career would be a cheap upgrade.

Partey will hopefully come as good as people say he is. His final decision seems rushed and not as cerebral as a Tadic (although he is a different player, his final ball is something I'd love Partey to have in his armoury).

Sorry I don't see any positives with Arteta. We've spent a lot of money to slip further behind with no cohesive plan in evidence. And he plays proven failures instead of trying something different.

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Originally Posted by Slacker

I don't think Arteta has favourites but he seems to be tied up, maybe contractually? For me, we have better alternatives to Luiz. Mari should be played more and Saliba should have been given a chance in a team rather than a proven liability like Luiz.

If Arteta feels certain players are required for certain situations the results definitely speak for themselves. The fact that a good number of us could see what was happening when he basically dumped Saliba and kept the likes Mustafi in front of him. To me that is poor management and the sign of a Mourinho-style manager who will blackball perfectly good players to the detriment of the team.

I don't care about whether he is favouritist or not. I want Arsenal to be back playing CL and challenging for the Premier League.

Basically having Luiz as the first player on the list clearly shows Arteta doesn't care about winning. If he played Saliba or other youngsters instead I would support him because it shows he is trying something different. If it fails, I would expect him to try something else, but not go back to tried and tested failures.

OK Guendouzi is a hothead who needs to improve, Torreira is easily wrested off the ball and Ozil was shite on a regular basis. But surely they deserved a run when we were piss poor? I don't see what they are doing now has any relevance. Saliba is pulling up trees, AMN has gone quiet at WBA just like Gnabry.

Martinelli should be being fast tracked to be Auba's replacement and it's probably too late now but Balogun should be getting some game time.

Pepe is a confidence player and needs lots of it. He's good enough to warrant the odd start.

Willian was a waste of time and money although he can be devastating on his day, but that day was long ago.

Agree about Xhaka - there is noone else to play. We know he makes mistakes and even getting a basic British Isles midfielder, think Henderson or Shelvey, coming to the end of his career would be a cheap upgrade.

Partey will hopefully come as good as people say he is. His final decision seems rushed and not as cerebral as a Tadic (although he is a different player, his final ball is something I'd love Partey to have in his armoury).

Sorry I don't see any positives with Arteta. We've spent a lot of money to slip further behind with no cohesive plan in evidence. And he plays proven failures instead of trying something different.

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Interesting points - and as you say I think the issues raised have more to do with what you see as managerial failings rather than favouritism.

Playing devil's advocate - the 'proven failures' that you are referring to are basically Luis ans Xhaka. But I'm not sure I would agree. They are both error prone - but certainly since Xmas they have played really well otherwise. Which is a dilemna for Arteta because 'trying something different' by starting the likes of Saliba or giving AMN a go is likely to result in their replacements making mistakes also - Saliba because he is so young and AMN plauying out of position. Indeed - as good as he has reportedly been for Nice, Saliba has made one or 2 howlers himself - which is totally to be expected. For a young manager - I can see some sense in him wanting to have experienced players on the pitch.

I'm not sure that we can really level the accusation of failing to try something different on a manager who has changed the way we play hugely from earlier in the season, and brought in/clearly developed Saka; EMS; Odegard and Cedric, plus switching up his central defenders on a regular basis?

What you and Ollie point to is the Pepe Willian dilemna. And of course I agree that this is a head scratcher on the face of it. Pepe in particular has done enough IMO both in terms of his performances and by comparison with Willian to merit starting over him. I disagree with what we have seen from the manager over this. But in terms of 'favouritism' I am willing to bet that 75% of fans will have a similar gripe with their managers. Not sure that Arteta is an outlier here. And he (not me) would argue that Wilian is our top assister this season, and has not been error prone or wasteful with the ball...

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Originally Posted by IBK

Interesting points - and as you say I think the issues raised have more to do with what you see as managerial failings rather than favouritism.

Playing devil's advocate - the 'proven failures' that you are referring to are basically Luis ans Xhaka. But I'm not sure I would agree. They are both error prone - but certainly since Xmas they have played really well otherwise. Which is a dilemna for Arteta because 'trying something different' by starting the likes of Saliba or giving AMN a go is likely to result in their replacements making mistakes also - Saliba because he is so young and AMN plauying out of position. Indeed - as good as he has reportedly been for Nice, Saliba has made one or 2 howlers himself - which is totally to be expected. For a young manager - I can see some sense in him wanting to have experienced players on the pitch.

I'm not sure that we can really level the accusation of failing to try something different on a manager who has changed the way we play hugely from earlier in the season, and brought in/clearly developed Saka; EMS; Odegard and Cedric, plus switching up his central defenders on a regular basis?

What you and Ollie point to is the Pepe Willian dilemna. And of course I agree that this is a head scratcher on the face of it. Pepe in particular has done enough IMO both in terms of his performances and by comparison with Willian to merit starting over him. I disagree with what we have seen from the manager over this. But in terms of 'favouritism' I am willing to bet that 75% of fans will have a similar gripe with their managers. Not sure that Arteta is an outlier here. And he (not me) would argue that Wilian is our top assister this season, and has not been error prone or wasteful with the ball...

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Thanks for the sensible response. I'm probably being a bit harsh with the "proven failures", but I've been here before with Arsenal where managers insist on picking players like Mustafi and Kolasinac (earlier on), Luiz, Xhaka, Elneny and to a degree squad players who are good to bring on to do a job but are not going to win you anything. Maybe I've been spoilt with the quality and standard of the top players Arsene brought in, and expect too much.

My expectation is that the Arsenal manager can see have a vision of the style, shape and the quality of the team. Know his game changers, his squad players and his weak links. Luiz and Xhaka are weak links and they're in the first XI. Xhaka, as we agree, we can do little about, but Arteta has better players than Luiz available, and to me, having him there is poor management. Maybe he is obliged contractually to play him? That would not surprise me and that means the Club have wilfully presided in turning what was in 2002 a team who were on the way to the top in Europe into a bang average underachieving sleeping giant.

i don#t agree we can do 'little about' Xhaka

there's plenty of other combinations when you consider we can choose from Partey, Ceballos, Chambers, Elneny and personally i don't get why as long as we have him we couldn't try Luiz at DM, the best thing about him is his distribution, we all know he's a calamity in our own area

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Originally Posted by Mac76

i don#t agree we can do 'little about' Xhaka

there's plenty of other combinations when you consider we can choose from Partey, Ceballos, Chambers, Elneny and personally i don't get why as long as we have him we couldn't try Luiz at DM, the best thing about him is his distribution, we all know he's a calamity in our own area

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Good call. Luiz could do a great job in a DM situation. The more I think about it the more it could work.

Not sure I see the logic in dropping Xhaka on the grounds that he makes costly errors only to replace him with Luiz... a player who makes just as many costly errors (and has more or less the same attributes)? The absolute best case scenario I see there is we end up with a like-for-like swap? Doesn't really feel worth it.

Like it or not, Xhaka is gets games because he is genuinely our second best midfielder right now (also the guy literally never gets injured! I've never known anything like it). Sure, he'll hit the self-destruct button 1 game in every 4, but he'll also give you 3 good / solid games in every 4 along the way too.

Ceballos, from what I've seen, makes costly errors just as frequently as Xhaka, but he only really gives you 1 good game out of every 4 as trade off, so I don't see him as an improvement.

Elneny is safe, but that's about it - he doesn't really add anything to our play beyond an extra body and fresh legs.

And with Chambers it feels like we're getting into 'flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks' territory.

I get that we want someone more dynamic and less error-prone to be starting ahead of Xhaka - I do too - but cutting out his negatives is only one half of the brief. Whoever comes in also has to add positives to our play too, and be capable of leading / controlling the midfield. I don't think that option exists in our squad right now - it's going to need to be recruited - and that can't happen until the summer at the earliest. My advice: make your peace with Xhaka until then. He's going to play whether you like it or not - the only difference is going to be how angry and frustrated you want to feel about it.

i agree Luiz isn't ideal, but for me he'd just shade Xhaka for who i'd rather see at DM.

to me Elneny being safe is in itself a huge upgrade on the very unsafe Xhaka

Ceballos does lose the ball sometism but he doesn't try to strangle people which is an asset IMO...

and Chambers is very underrated by some, i think he's actually a good player who does his job and looks to start attacks (remember how good he was at RB when Emery played him there)

maybe it's because he's been a while that no-one takes much interest but i regard him as a very good squad player and again much better than Xhaka all round