Wenger Referendum IV

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

I think things can dramatically change if we lose half our games between now and the end of the season. I can see fan pressure changing the owners mind. Again, the higher probability is that the offer will still be good come May, but if that probability reduces by even 1% with us finishing outside the top 4 and absolutely pissing off the last few PL games, I am all for it. At the end of the day, it doesnt make an iota of difference if we finish 4th or 8th or 17th. If you aint first, you are last!

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We have to avoid further damage though. Blowing everything up as the only way to ensure getting Wenger is one way to go, but it leaves anyone who replaces him with an even greater task. A real catch 22 with every angle working in Wenger and the board's favour. It has reached this point because too many fans have been too complacent for too long (myself included). We should have been creating merry hell years ago. Now we've reached the point where one banner in the stadium gets greeted with outrage from a still significant section of the fan base and virtually the whole media. It's ridiculous, even a polite criticism is viewed as sacrilegious. Instead of the fans demanding the owner, the board, the manager and the players meet our standards it has been the latter who have trained the fans to meet theirs. I think hoping the club blows up is just more of the fans wanting to shift the responsibility of getting the job done. We need to be winning games and placing ourselves in the best position for a new manager to take advantage. And we need to be raising our voices and demanding the manager gets the hell out because he's had so much time and so much patience to this point and he's blown it all. If we want to blow things up then blow up those plastics who sit there in their expensive seats and call themselves fans just because they have the dosh to get through the door. And next time they sing Wenger's name or boo when a fan who expects a bit more sticks a banner up, then let the bastards have it with both barrels. For me, complacent fans are an even bigger problem than the general complacency in the boardroom and the manager's office. Put a rocket up the backsides of those shitty consumer fans, break their resolve to defend their Wenger god no matter what the circumstances and when that barrier is down go all out against Wenger and the board - EVEN WHEN WE ARE WINNING MATCHES. Especially when we are winning matches. Because it's about far, far more than results now.

Also, somebody needs to make a banner that states Gary Neville is a CUNT. This should be a priority.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

I beg to differ on that. I do not think Wenger will walk out himself. I used to believe that he was a 'good man' who wasnt in it for the money up until a few years back. Now I do not believe in that anymore. I think he is in it for the money, and if offered a new contract, he will sign it.

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The contract has been offered to him

If he was going to sign on no matter what, he would have done so already......he's looking for a turnaround in fortune to make it more acceptable but if that is not forthcoming he won't sign. And i don't think it's the money that motivates him, it's the total control he has over every footballing aspect of the club...he is scared of going from that to nothing.

The only reason he's holding out is because i think the fan reaction is getting to him, and i don't mean that to be sympathetic or say the fans shouldn't be doing it. But he's not a robot, i think he knows the fans have turned now....but he believes if we finish the season strongly it will be enough for people to accept him taking another two years.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Because it's about far, far more than results now.

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It's 100% about results, when he signed on three years ago i wasn't keen at all on the idea, but i could understand the idea that he deserved the chance to see if he could spend more money and if that would make a difference.

He's had three seasons and it has made absolutely no difference....we know the failings are a by product of his fiefdom when he micromanages everything and seems unable and unwilling to take outside advice/assistance.

I agree the football has been substandard but i'd lump that in with results, the way he has our teams playing means we might scrape results against mid-table sides but we are doomed as per usual against the sides in and around us.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The contract has been offered to him

If he was going to sign on no matter what, he would have done so already......he's looking for a turnaround in fortune to make it more acceptable but if that is not forthcoming he won't sign. And i don't think it's the money that motivates him, it's the total control he has over every footballing aspect of the club...he is scared of going from that to nothing.

The only reason he's holding out is because i think the fan reaction is getting to him, and i don't mean that to be sympathetic or say the fans shouldn't be doing it. But he's not a robot, i think he knows the fans have turned now....but he believes if we finish the season strongly it will be enough for people to accept him taking another two years.

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"The fans have turned", at our place means people posting slightly controversial message online. Actually turning would mean a relentless chorus of, "We want Wenger OUT!, throughout 90 minutes. We have the politest, most whipped fans in football. Some bloke with a tattoo going around saying, "Please Arsene, you've been great and all but, if it's not too much trouble, could you leave?", is viewed as hard core. We are a million miles away from turning, from what I can see. Most of us are still here pleading with a guy who already thinks he's doing the right thing, to do the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Apart from the primary reason we are all here in the first place. Competitive sport. And if that's not their primary reason then they should all fuck off and go into hedge fund management. The fans' expectations are aligned with the purpose of the sport, the board's and the manager's aren't.

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Well, I don't agree about the manager's, I don't think he's able to achieve more but I believe he wants to, I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't want to.
I was simply responding to the notion that he's under no pressure. He is, but the pressure he's under is from people whose interests expectations are different from the fans.
I wasn't saying it's a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

"The fans have turned", at our place means people posting slightly controversial message online. Actually turning would mean a relentless chorus of, "We want Wenger OUT!, throughout 90 minutes. We have the politest, most whipped fans in football. Some bloke with a tattoo going around saying, "Please Arsene, you've been great and all but, if it's not too much trouble, could you leave?", is viewed as hard core. We are a million miles away from turning, from what I can see. Most of us are still here pleading with a guy who already thinks he's doing the right thing, to do the right thing.

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and if the fans were that vociferous he'd be gone already, but it's rather besides the point. He is getting stick and abuse every time we lose, especially in away games

If it wasn't getting to him, we wouldn't have seen that John Cross hit piece on the fans last month.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's 100% about results, when he signed on three years ago i wasn't keen at all on the idea, but i could understand the idea that he deserved the chance to see if he could spend more money and if that would make a difference.

He's had three seasons and it has made absolutely no difference....we know the failings are a by product of his fiefdom when he micromanages everything and seems unable and unwilling to take outside advice/assistance.

I agree the football has been substandard but i'd lump that in with results, the way he has our teams playing means we might scrape results against mid-table sides but we are doomed as per usual against the sides in and around us.

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It's about the rotten attitude that runs through this club from top to bottom. You can forget about results while that attitude prevails. We've been conned by that before. A run of wins, top of the table even. But we all know where it ends because the winning mentality is nonexistent in this club. From an owner that knows fuck all and can't be bothered to turn up, through a manager that worships the consistency of averageness, to players who will take a wheelbarrow of cash and a selfie for finishing 4th, down to a considerable number of fans who beg us to remember what Wenger did before some of them were even born. It stinks. We aren't at the results bit yet, there's still a ton of work to do before we get there.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

It's about the rotten attitude that runs through this club from top to bottom. You can forget about results while that attitude prevails. We've been conned by that before. A run of wins, top of the table even. But we all know where it ends because the winning mentality is nonexistent in this club. From an owner that knows fuck all and can't be bothered to turn up, through a manager that worships the consistency of averageness, to players who will take a wheelbarrow of cash and a selfie for finishing 4th, down to a considerable number of fans who beg us to remember what Wenger did before some of them were even born. It stinks. We aren't at the results bit yet, there's still a ton of work to do before we get there.

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All of this is a causal factor for the results, but ultimately the majority shareholder could use the club as a front for drug and people trafficking and the board could be a satan worshipping paedophile ring but the fans wouldn't care if the results were good.

People are fed up of the attitude at the club because we aren't competing in the way we were promised borne out by the results, it's 100% the results and everything else is an offshoot of that.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

and if the fans were that vociferous he'd be gone already, but it's rather besides the point. He is getting stick and abuse every time we lose, especially in away games

If it wasn't getting to him, we wouldn't have seen that John Cross hit piece on the fans last month.

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And he should be getting stick every time we win too. And on all the days between matches. That's how the job gets done. The message needs to be, no more, we've heard it all before, seen it a thousand times, now get the fuck out! And when he's gone and a new guy comes in, for that guy to have any real chance the fans then need to turn their attention to Kroenke.

But Kroenke and Wenger have enough experience on the ground to know that's not going to happen. The vocal minority sounding off online won't shift their attitudes. Not when there are 50K+ library goers forking out their cash every other week. Wenger's going nowhere unless the fans up their game. You can already see the PR running out of every drainage pipe. They are setting things up for this guy to stay and it may be a longer stay than people fear.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

All of this is a causal factor for the results, but ultimately the majority shareholder could use the club as a front for drug and people trafficking and the board could be a satan worshipping paedophile ring but the fans wouldn't care if the results were good.

People are fed up of the attitude at the club because we aren't competing in the way we were promised borne out by the results, it's 100% the results and everything else is an offshoot of that.

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Perhaps. But the drug running paedos in charge would still need to instil the winning mentality or the results wouldn't arrive anyway. Of course I agree, give the fans a string of positive results and the temperature lowers. But Arsenal is a club that has been going around and around for a decade now. We've seen those results come in, cheered them, engaged in ridiculously optimistic talk of titles. Eventually people twig. At Arsenal it's not about the results, not in the way it is at normal clubs. Results for us are to uphold a minimum standard, not to strive for the maximum standard. It's the mentality. Que sera sera, whatever will do, will do.