Bayern Munich v Arsenal. 17th April. 20:00. CL 1/4 Final 2nd Leg.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Armchair Psychiatry is it now?

I don’t think my point is particularly subtle. There’s no essence of Wenger left at the club. It’s been six years he’s gone. It’s totally possible in fact nay probable that most coaches often have the same flaws…inability to instill a winning mentality.
It feels to me that because Arteta managed a clean sheet against City that you failed to notice how he was running the same team into the ground, was making things more difficult for us with galaxy brained team set ups and ultimately tonight put out a team lacking self belief and energy.

Occam’s Razor innit

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Oh, an actual response. I'm honoured.

To which I reply...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/childrens-r...eletubbies.jpg

And thank you for setting me straight on my sad analysis of a hard won point against the gypos (to make it the 4 we needed against them) which further goes to prove the value of Monday morning quarter-backing, despite your own (obviously tongue-in-cheek) analysis at the time. I clearly remember you shouting, "Oh NO! He's running the players into the ground!"

Being wise after the event doesn’t make me wrong. Although we have all been speaking repeatedly about his need to rotate more

I tend to do the same as you, judge the future by going by what’s in the past. Unlike you I don’t rely on phantoms

I see Arteta has fucked things up before, it seems likely he will do it again

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Being wise after the event doesn’t make me wrong. Although we have all been speaking repeatedly about his need to rotate more

I tend to do the same as you, judge the future by going by what’s in the past. Unlike you I don’t rely on phantoms

I see Arteta has fucked things up before, it seems likely he will do it again

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Arteta has done way, way better than any of the shit dished up in the last 20 years. Still nowhere near good enough, but if you need to jump on him for failing to turn around a root and branch culture of failure, carefully cultivated, have at it. The pitiful irony is that nothing bloke Dick is now being hailed as a master for coming 4th. It's fucking hilarious.

No what’s happened is we’ve spent a lot of money to be close but no cigar because of a coach that has bought luxury players without any other idea than to emulate his hero Pep Guardiola

We can’t even engineer simple counter attacks despite having devestating pace available to us because this halfwit has coached any spark of originality out of them

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Tom Selleck and the Idiot son

They said once about Stan, “when you think of silent people, you think they are clever, enigmatic they don’t speak unless they’ve something intelligent to say. He just doesn’t have much to contribute when he does speak”

The real fortune earner is the wife who is the heiress to Walmart

It’s not that he’s stupid, it’s that largely his investments are risk free…he’s always had the capital against which to borrow

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Yeah those idiots whose money we've used to buy Odegaard, Trossard, Rice etc

Morons

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Yeah those idiots whose money we've used to buy Odegaard, Trossard, Rice etc

Morons

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They gave us the money to spend on players.

It’s not exactly an act of genius

Plus Josh Kroenke is clearly the one being given nominal duties in the family company because he’s too much of a Retard to make it by himself

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

At this point you’re just upset because I’ve been telling you your comfort blanket is made from shit

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I don't know what that means.

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I’m well aware of what you think you covered earlier. Honestly….your argument is it’s not a collapse because I said we wouldn’t win this one?

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No.
My argument is there's no objective measure of what a collapse is so if you want to characterise this as such then sure, go nuts. I just don't see it that way and I have explained why so won't do so again. Your response was just to declare yourself very very right because we lost last night. You don't get any Mystic Meg points for predicting that. I thought we'd lose too and already said I wouldn't regard that as turning this in to a collapse unless we got a right pasting. Obviously I hoped we'd win but from the part I saw (most of the second half) we stood up to them, we weren't thumped. First season back in the CL for a while I can accept a narrow defeat against a good side who have loads of CL experience.
Disappointing but I never felt we were favourites for the tie and I think we all felt we needed to win the first leg to progress.
I'm more annoyed about Sunday.

The main thing for me is we pick ourselves up now and beat Wolves to go top. If we fail to then I'll climb aboard the HCZ Collapse™ bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don't know what that means.


No.
My argument is there's no objective measure of what a collapse is so if you want to characterise this as such then sure, go nuts. I just don't see it that way and I have explained why so won't do so again. Your response was just to declare yourself very very right because we lost last night. You don't get any Mystic Meg points for predicting that. I thought we'd lose too and already said I wouldn't regard that as turning this in to a collapse unless we got a right pasting. Obviously I hoped we'd win but from the part I saw (most of the second half) we stood up to them, we weren't thumped. First season back in the CL for a while I can accept a narrow defeat against a good side who have loads of CL experience.
Disappointing but I never felt we were favourites for the tie and I think we all felt we needed to win the first leg to progress.
I'm more annoyed about Sunday.

The main thing for me is we pick ourselves up now and beat Wolves to go top. If we fail to then I'll climb aboard the HCZ Collapse™ bandwagon.

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There is an objective measure, it’s when one poor performance bleeds into the next


Whether you accept it or not, the Villa defeat is as linked to the Bayern 1st leg draw, as the Bayern defeat is to the Villa defeat


Because they are separate competitions, form doesn’t exist independently between competitions. This is why we lost in the fa cup third round a week after losing to West Ham and Fulham

If we had simply gone out of the champions league, whilst enough to be concerning especially the way we went out with a whimper and lost the tie in the first leg. It wouldn’t have been a full on collapse if we’d beaten Villa.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

There is an objective measure, it’s when one poor performance bleeds into the next

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Well OK, I don't actually think that's an unreasonable definition. I just don't think that's what's happened.
I actually don't think any of them were bad performances. We were a bit naïve against Bayern at home, but we battled back well to get a draw. Villa at home we dominated the first half, I think we were hoping to be a couple of goals up by half time - and we could have been - so we could rest players for Bayern. Didn't quite work but the first half certainly wasn't a bad performance. Second half maybe, but Villa are a good side and I think we ran out of steam a bit while they stepped it up. Last night wasn't a poor performance, we stood toe to toe with a very good side. They might not be the force they were but they're still a side full of quality with a load of experience at this level.

I think the sides we've been playing has to be a factor here. This isn't like around this stage last year when we got 3 points from 12 - two of those games being disappointing draws against West Ham and Southampton. Bayern, Villa and Bayern is obviously a much harder sequence.

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Because they are separate competitions, form doesn’t exist independently between competitions.

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Agreed.

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This is why we lost in the fa cup third round a week after losing to West Ham and Fulham

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Disagreed. I mean, maybe it was a factor but we battered Liverpool in that FA Cup game. Certainly first half. We should have been out of sight. It was just wasteful finishing that cost us.

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If we had simply gone out of the champions league, whilst enough to be concerning especially the way we went out with a whimper and lost the tie in the first leg. It wouldn’t have been a full on collapse if we’d beaten Villa.

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As discussed, failing to win the Wolves game will turn it in to a full on collapse for me. I don't think we're there yet for the reasons I've outlined. We certainly could be heading there and if we do I'll possibly hop back on the Arteta Out bandwagon.