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He's just an attention seeker who gets his arse kicked a thousand times more than Wenger when he comes up against competent opposition. He was run out of America for being too dumb :haha: now we have to suffer him back here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
I see Wenger is somewhat irritated by Scholes comments:
Although we are six points behind if Man City win their games in hand it's nine, we've been battered by all the top teams which shows how far behind we are in reality, it's also Scholes opinion (he said in his eyes we were) and he's entitled to think what he likes, surprise Wenger seems irritated by this.Quote:
"People who have managed zero games have opinions. We have to accept that," said Wenger, whose side face third-placed Manchester City on Saturday.
"If six points is a 'million miles away', I don't know what the translation of a mile into a point is."
Wengers comments about him have zero games in management is irrelevant you don't have to manage to spot the obvious.
Again I have to say Wilshere hasn't improved, IMO he's regressed, what's more his dedication and attitude stinks, signs of a guy who's getting too big for his boots before he's achieved anything.Quote:
Wenger also dismissed the ex-England international's opinion that Gunners midfielder Jack Wilshere, 22, has "not improved since he was 17".
"Jack has been handicapped by many injuries, but once he is back and playing consistently he will show everybody that [Scholes] is wrong about that," said the Frenchman.
"He is an exceptional player - and Scholes knows that."
Won't go down well, but I'm personally sick of Wenger state of denial, 9 years we've had of this and the guy is still in fantasy land, he still thinks we can win the title apparently, not a cats chance in hell I'm afraid, not after those beatings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26785162
you say we have been battered by all the top teams, however we have only been battered in the away games. When they have come to the emirates, (bar city so i expect this to change tomorrow) we haven't lost. So what this proves against the big teams is that home form tends to get the better result i guess so i don't think we are a million miles away as scholes says.
also with his comments about winning the league, he's hardly said anything stupid. he says tomorrow is our last chance to stay in the race but also that city/chelsea/liverpool are the favourites
It obviously wasn't a literal comment by Scholes and Wenger shouldn't assume it as such and attack that strawman. He's basically saying we're a long way off, which whilst personally I feel is too harsh is a valid comment. Based some of the evidence seen there are some deep flaws in Wenger's coaching, management and player acquisition which are holding us back and will continue to hold us back unless they are rectified.
Also, he's quite right about Jack. Most people on here were already saying it and I for one am quite glad that his questionable form is getting some notice in the press so it forces and inspires him to work a lot harder to be the player we all expect him to be and not be content with his current showings.
At the Emirates we've done OK but you'd expect that at home (though we haven't won many against the better sides either), but it doesn't change those cricket scores we've experienced, I think Scholes is saying we're not close to them and we're not, just look at our record against the top 4 sides in recent years, you'd expect a side close to be able to beat some of them, but we seem to very rarely manage it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
I'm just not convinced we're that close, we had a healthy lead in December and then had a tough run of games and dropped a fair few points, happened again in Feb/March and it was the same story, we had a big opportunity this season with all the changes at other clubs and the start we had.
As for the title, it's gone, it's just not going to happen, losing 6-0 to Chelsea showed that, how many Champions do you know that get tonked three times in one season, his comments about the results seem to indicate he's doesn't accept the failings of his team and just things it's down to luck, it's not bad luck after 9 years of pretty much the same thing.
What I want is for him to accept responsibility and just say we haven't been good enough and we need changes, because those are the facts, especially after those embarrassing results, he brushes them off as if they were just a bad day at the office and nothing to worry about instead.
Catty comments from Wenget.
I'd suggest someone who has played under the greatest manager of all time and been a part of plenty of successful sides knows what he's talking about.
I watched Scholes comments, he was just giving his opinion, from a football fan point of view, nothing malicious about it and he had a point. Fans expect better than we've had in the last 9 years, as he said we're in there looking for for a few weeks getting a sniff of success and then it all falls apart, new season starts and it's the same all over again.
Would be refreshing to hear Wenger accept it's not good enough for once, particularly after those thrashings which should be totally unacceptable for any club of our stature.
Yeah but he's ginger.
Scholes is a pundit now so therefore an ex-professional in every sense. The comments about Wilshere were pure shit. I know some will leap to the defence of the Utd guy but Scholes knows how it is and how he's just helped heap more shit on a player struggling with injury. Scholes is in big danger of destroying what was previously an untarnished record as one of the model pros in the game. Shame.
Also don't forget who is driving this:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/...ps928d565d.png
Shut it Scholes? Is that what Wenger said? I didn't think so. The media can't be trusted to report anything, they lie as a matter of routine.
Don't agree, Wilshere has been largely sh*t recently, he seemed a better player when he first broke through, he seems to think he's some sort of big shot now and his application and behaviour isn't exactly great, Scholes was spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Just because he came through the youth ranks it doesn't save him from criticism, his passing, tackling, positioning and end product are all disappointing, he has the odd good game but that's not enough. Injury or no injury he should be better than he is if he really is the talent some think
He didn't say shut it, but saying "people who have managed zero games" he's effectively saying WTF does he know, as if being a manager is the only way you can judge a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
From what Wenger says he disproves this, he's a poor judge of teams because he thinks his team is better than it is.
Im not quite sure that his comment about managed zero games is actually at Scholes but more at half the journalists on twitter and probably half the cry babies on twitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
It's at Scholes because he also saysQuote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Scholes made the million miles away comment after the game the other day.Quote:
"If six points is a 'million miles away', I don't know what the translation of a mile into a point is."
I know what Scholes said but Arsene also said this. full quote for the zero gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Obviously he has made his comments against scholes but its clear it wasn't all aimed at scholes. when you get twats like neil ashton saying give solado time to settle after calling ozil a flop etc, i think Arsene was aiming that last bit at themQuote:
"Everybody has opinions, people who have managed zero games have opinions and we have to accept that. We are in a society where there are thousands of opinions every day, and some go for you and some go against you. You have to live with that.
Maybe that's true, but two parts are clearly responses at Scholes comments from the other day, he was seemingly irked by these even though they were valid points to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Wenger doesn't seem to want to accept that his team aren't good enough, this is ultimately what bugs me the most, it's denial like this that just makes me thinks he's just not the man for the job, if he doesn't acknowledge our shortcomings what is there for him to fix, does he just think another year of experience will make all the difference as he has so often said in the past?
@johncrossmirror
Wenger says #afc only "really beaten" once this season.
u wot m8 :haha:Quote:
Wenger said: “The only game for me where we were really beaten was at Liverpool. The rest is a bit more coincidence going negatively together.
“At Chelsea the game was over after ten minutes. At Liverpool were were outplayed on the day and there’s not a lot to say.
“One week later we beat Liverpool (in the FA Cup) and no-one says there is a gap there between the two teams.
“You have to accept that it is not always as simple as that in the game. You play ten times the same team and every time it’s a different game.”
If this is true this really sums it up, he just doesn't accept we got beaten like this due to issues with the team/squad, it's just circumstances and bad luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
How many top teams get thrashed three times in the space of a season and are considered as good or even close to the top teams?
Fair point in terms of the denial and therefore unlikely to fix things but to counter that he did make moves to sign a DM and top striker in the summer. Clearly interested in improving that area although interest and actually doing it are two vey different things but your point about another year experience i do think would have been valid this year if our team had stayed fit. You saw how good we were in the first half of the season, while we might not have won the league, a season for Ozil to adjust with ramsey, jack, gibbs, szcesney, cazorla etc etc all learning with Ozil and then being ready next season would have been great experience but injuries have robbed us of that chance. Now there is a completely different argument about injuries etc and treatment for it but thats hardly something you can lay at Arsene's door but more medical staff door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Now if you take the team that played up until the Napoli game in decemeber. Some of the football played by that team was outstanding, the napoli home, or norwich game were brilliant. That team had a solid defence, strong midfield but weak striker. There isn't actually much you would say to improve that team (starting eleven) bar a striker and DM. Then we come to the bench and squad and we need to strengthen there too but otherwise that team with everyone fit and the bench is pretty strong. Strong enough to lead for most of the season until that point. Then injuries happened. Now while our tactics in big games recently have been lacking and the city game too was awful, and there is an now a stronger argument for Arsene to retire rather then renew, his point about not having much to fix (or your point) could actually be seen as true when you ignore injuries.
Let say, a fully fit squad.
starting team is: Szcesney, Sagna, BFG, Kos, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ozil, Theo, Giroud
subs: Fabianski, Monreal, Vermaelen, Flamini, Podolski, Ox, Diaby
then you have other players like: Gnabry, Jenkinson, Rosicky, Sanogo, Bendtner, Kallstrom.
Now we can debate all we like about which players would start etc but lets leave that alone for the moment. That is our fully fit squad with no injuries. The starting team is pretty strong. Imagine if you took out Giroud and Arteta and replaced with Bender and Suarez for example. Suddenly that team looks incredibly different. The bench then looks stronger with Giroud and Arteta on it while the squad looks stronger with Podolski and Flamini in it. There are other players who would also stregthen the starting team too but those two named are just examples based on last summers interest.
Now the next thing would be to strengthen the squad with a few decent 10/12 million pound signings. Obviously some players i have named above will be leaving like Fabianksi, Bendtner etc so they need to be replaced as well. So if we were to do that, as well as get in two big players (striker and DM) we actually have a very very strong starting team, bench and squad.
One problem we have though, is we can't actually ever play our full strength side as we always have injuries, that needs to be looked at and sorted ASAP but lets ignore injuries for this debate as its not actually in Arsene's control, more the medical teams control. So with that squad, added with additions in the summer, in terms of personal he doesn't need to fix much IMO, and the reason i think he will fix it is because he tried last summer and with more money this summer, there really is no excuse. So its tactics that need to be changed and fixed next after sorting out personal, and lets face it, its only really tactics in big matches against the big teams (hopefully big matches like semi finals v wigan don't come into this) that need to be changed and fixed. I think in the majority of matches this season, Arsene has got his tactics right and thats why we led for so long this season but when we come up against the big teams, we failed in the away matches, although the home matches weren't brilliant either but so far (touch wood) unbeaten in the big games at home but the problem is its been that way for too long. I think perhaps it is right for Arsene to retire this season and i hope to god he goes out with the cup, he deserves that but for the new man, who will probably be quite similar to Arsene in style of play etc, he doesn't have much to fix. Even if Arsene stays, he doesn't have much to fix with a fully fit squad bar the mental barriers and tactics in the big games. The problem is when it goes wrong with us, it goes wrong big time and its why its time for change but i don't think Arsene is blind or deluded when inferring there isn't much to fix, I don't think there is either but the chances of us having a fully fit squad for the season is unlikely and the chance of that happening coupled with mid season explosion again is very high under Arsene and thats why perhaps its best he leaves at the end of the season.
Simple option for everyone, stand behind the Utd cunt with the big mouth or stand behind our manager and our team. Really, really, simple option.
To be apologising for the media literally making shit up, all in an effort to pile more on Wenger - it's sad. Any old shit as long as it is anti-Wenger. Big game coming up tomorrow and look at the bitches on here moaning and whinging. Apparently Wenger doesn't motive the team.
Well it's a good job we don't let the moaning cocksuckers on here anywhere near the team then isn't it :lol:
Stand behind a manager I don't believe in anymore after 9 years of empty promises and nothing to show.
Sorry I'm done with standing behind him, especially if he remains in denial and accepts thrashings as "just a bad day of the office".
It's not about standing behind Scholes either, it's about looking at his points and deciding whether they are valid, to most people they are. Scholes really doesn't have a big mouth, he's more like a mouse. :lol:
he has a slight but very weak point here. Against city, there were four goals either disallowed or allowed that were completely wrong decisions and would have changed the game massively had they been given correctly. It might not have changed the overall result but perhaps city would have only won by one goal in which case its not a hammering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
The chelsea game was i guess because we had so many injuries that it was no where near our full strength team which is true to an extent but poor planning etc in the summer cost us there although you can't plan for so many key players to be out.
The liverpool game, well that was our best side minus theo and he's right, we were totally taken apart.
A weak point but one that has something to it.
He's gone mental and is in full on WUMger mode now.
Come off it Ollie. There's no way you can realistically defend such an absurb position. In all three games our team set up and tactical arrangement was plain wrong - once you can rule it out to a bad day at the office, but three times? No way. This isn't talking about the Stoke and Man Utd games were whilst we weren't comprehensively outplayed by superior opposition, we still played badly enough to not deserve a win.
However, first of all I'd question the legitimacy of the comments and the sincerity of them. Wenger, just like Fergie and Mourinho occasionally deliberately spouts bullshit especially after a loss, just to take the focus of the team. Actually, I'm confident that an intelligent man like Wenger doesn't really believe this - you could tell it from his attitude and his defeatist tone after the Chelsea game that he knew we had some major problems.
Empty promises and nothing to show? That's a perfect demonstration of the point I have been making for a while, there are a lot of fans who either don't understand the path the club has been on or simply factor it out of their analysis thereby viewing everything from a wildly negative slant. I'll grant you, the promises sure did look empty for a while there, but the fact is they are starting to be met - right on schedule. And nothing to show? That's a ludicrous denial of the self evident. The club has been transformed financially. It may be you don't value the business side of things or don't see any correlation between the business and the team and if that's your point of view then fine, it's your choice. But to say there is nothing to show and we are left with empty promised. That's just bullshit of the same standard as Wenger being clueless, or Wenger robbing the club or whatever other trash is being used by a section on the fans to belittle the club and the manager. Making these types of claims has got nothing to do with tactics or results, it's just a personal vendetta and blind dismissal of the facts. What did you call it? In denial? Correct, you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Ferguson would have long given up talking to the press by now if he was being subjected to this psychotic media agenda. It's perfectly valid to question results and team selections and other such things, but to broaden the attack to almost every aspect of the club, to paint a picture of almost everything being at fault or mismanaged or in crisis, it's just bullshit. There's an image earlier in the thread of scandalous lie of a headline created out of thin air by the Daily Himmler. These bastards aren't capable of criticising within any kind of real world context, and neither are many of the fans to be honest. How can there be any honest debate when shit is just being made up?
The path they took was clearly one for financial gain in my mind and it's worked out very well for everyone (except the fans), you may think they are starting to be met but after another season of the same old same old I'm just not convinced, yes we signed Ozil but the club were under such intense pressure from the fans after a disastrous transfer window they almost had no choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Most concerning to me is the manager's attitude towards those massive and hugely embarrassing defeats (we're not Stoke or Barnet we're one of the biggest clubs in the land and have been for many yes and results like this are simply unacceptable, for it to happen 3 times is just plain ridiculous), he really doesn't seem that bothered about them, maybe he should be more concerned that he and his team have embarrassed this club as much as they have, or maybe it's just the fact he can get away with whatever he wants at this club and never has to answer to anything or anyone.
There's no personal vendetta here, just a loss of patience for the same BS he always seems to come out with whenever things go pearshaped which incidentally seems to be every single season, you have to ask yourself when we he actually ever learn that he needs to change things, the answer seems to be never.
I don't want to hear about spirit or togetherness anymore, don't want to hear about the young players excuse and don't want to hear about being close anymore when we get trounced, I just want some honesty and some action to be taken rather than plain denial of the facts in front of his eyes.
:gp:
Pretty much.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...end-at-arsenal
This feels like his last season or we're certainly approaching the end. Wenger says he'll sign for next season unless he changes his mind. That's not reassuring and I hope the Board haven't put all their eggs in one basket.
Most concerning to you is an interview in the media? At least it's nothing serious. Partially concerning to me is the way some fans hop from one media piece to the next as if any of it is real. The personal gain thing - who are you talking about? The ones that left with all the money, or the ones that remained? Either way, you say getting beaten by the chavs invalidates all else so we end up with empty promises and zero change. Is that your argument? No trophy therefore nothing else has happened at the club? Is that your logic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
One astounding quote from that defeatist article - "Against Jose Mourinho—who for all intents and purposes is football's antidote to the 64-year-old..." Astonishing. In the same way you could say Bernie Madoff is the antidote to ethical finance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Also from that dreadful article. "Rodgers, of course, is a disciple of Mourinho. But more telling than their connection is the results the two men are yielding from their teams. The pair have embraced the times and moved with the sport's evolution to become the pre-eminent managers in the English game."
Half a season's worth of performance is all it takes to become pre-eminent? Symptomatic is how I'd describe such idiocy.
Some more childish analysis that dispenses with anything except the raw data. Rather like calling the 400m champion a slow coach because he was trounced by the 4x100m relay team. Give as another couple of Ramseys and the original article would have only played in a third of the games anyway, less chance of injury. Although, how have City been doing with Aguero compared to say, Giroud? Sort of blows the theory to smithereens but that doesn't mean the silliness garnered from the mainstream rags and regurgitated as expertise isn't at least amusing.
"In 2011-12—which was incidentally the first season Arsenal had managed to keep Robin van Persie on the pitch for a full campaign—Arsenal's players missed 1,343 days of activity through injury. In the same season, Chelsea's squad missed just 356. Champions Manchester City saw their players absent for just 186."
The only redeeming feature of that article is it has gathered all the unqualified speculation of the guess masters into one simple sheet that if used carefully would be good for one substantial wipe.
Enough with the self righteous rants!
After mulling over a possible replacement I narrowed my list to one man who can lead us to glory and work within a tight budget, and bring players in and turn them from good to brilliant. That my friends is the one and only DIEGO SIMEONE
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...34_634x457.jpg
Just dont mention the war!
No it's not just the interview it's the general attitude of the man, I've seen it enough over the last 9 years that I know about his belief in his team and how he goes about fixing problems and improving us and in my mind it's not adequate in any sense, whatever he does he always leaves us short or doesn't do the necessary with transfers and doesn't seem to motivate the players after heavy defeats or poor runs, it's not just this season this has been going on for the last 9 years, this season is just a repeat of the 8 before it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Personal gain, well the whol cub has gained benefited financially, yes those that have left certainly, I wouldn't say Wenger specifically but he has also benefited just look at how much money he gets paid (I'm not saying this was his intention but it was a consequence), which IMO is too much for a club with our record in the last 8-9 years. You can argue that the people upstairs are happy with it as that was his target, but that just reinforces my point, 4th place = money and thus they are happy and don't fell the need to pressure the manager into more and ultimately he's also happy.
No getting almost regular beatings does though, this season it's been cricket scores (3 times), but this isn't new, there's been enough 4-0, 4-1 and unacceptable scorelines in recent times, this season is just the icing on the cake, we've sunk to new levels getting absolutely humiliated, though in Wenger's opinion it's just circustmances, he changes nothing, doesn't adapt and doesn't react to results like this and within a couple weeks they're irrelevant.
Results that embarrass the club like this aren't irrelevant, they need to be taken seriously, you may be able to put one an an accident but three in one season for any other manager at a top club that would be a sackable offence tbh.
It seems to me that even some of the fans now write off those results as a bad day at the office, it's almost like they never happened at all now and don't matter, they matter a lot and should be taken more seriously rather than written off, big teams don't get battered like this as often as this without there being serious issues somewhere.
Enough with posting up curated content posing as analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Perhaps a misuse of words but by antidote he may well be talking about the fact Wenger has failed to ever get the better of Mourinho in a game, if you look at it from that perspective the word antidote kinda works, I doubt it's meant in the nasty way you probably are thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
This suggests to me that Mourinho's methods and tactics are able to nullify Wenger's philosophy.
It's not just half a season though, he did a fine job at Swansea too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It says "football's antidote", as if somehow Mourinho represents a positive. His philosophy is possibly the most negative and destructive we've ever seen in the game. A man who cares nothing for the sport as evidenced by his abominations in Europe. I'm not disputing his foul methods are effective, but to cast him as football's antidote to anything except entertainment is a polar misrepresentation, as wide of the mark as it is possible to be. Of course Mourinho didn't write this himself, it was some know nothing web administrator who culled a series of hack pieces into an article so he could pose as an analyst. Link bait for the unwary. Let's at least be sensible about who we listen to in our rush to put the boot in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim