Croatia v England, 19:00 BST, ITV

The sun has gone, England are out and Trump is coming over.

What a come down. :rose:

On a conference call. Not really listening.
:crying:

Football doesn't often get to me like this but although I think we'd have lost in the final just to be there...we had a real chance :upset:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

We desperately lack a playmaker. It’s quite incredible really that England got this far without scoring hardly any goals from open passages of play.

Kane is an excellent striker but without the service he’s not going to be up to much. Sterling for all his effort was ordinary and Alli was just shit, 2 key positions that we fell woefully short in.

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Dele was shit all tournament! Stupid useless Spud!

Kane had a stinker but you may be right about lack of service. Plus it seemed like kind of like Messi is for Argentina, Croatia had several men on him and telling the others to step up which none of them had the talent to do.

Sterling faded in the second half but for all the ridiculous abuse he gets, he ran Croatia's defence ragged in the first half and you saw how utterly ineffective Rashford was when he came on. Hoping Southgate didn't buy into the narrative and sub him off for that reason.

I guess Croatia are the slightly better team on paper so it was a fair result ...... but damn .... with a few better decisions that game could have been won and we could have been in a WC final!

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes, and the win on pens is a psychological thing broken too.
I don't buy the "They're a young side, in 4 years they'll have grown" argument though. It rarely works out that way - remember when we were getting excited about a young Arsenal side who were doing well in the league cup.
That lot never came through and achieved anything.

At least I've enjoyed watching them play in this tournament. They're a side that can pass to one another and there's a bit of spirit about them. They just don't have the quality in depth. People like Vardy and Welbeck on the bench is a clue :(

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I think the 'they're a young side' does have something to it, look ar Germeny, Low took young players, built them up and did well.

Assuming most of these guys stay on form, i'd expect that team to do well at the next Euros, even though we won't again be lucky enough to have Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal falling away so easily...

I also hope some of our own young guys might play more of a part next time, for example, if AMN keeps improving he could easily break into the side

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Originally Posted by Letters

You think they play in England because they’re xenophobic?
Isn’t it just that they are pretty average and big European clubs are not clamouring for their signature.

I do think Kane is world class, a poor performance last night doesn’t change that. He could do with some better players around him though

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Ok, maybe i shouldn't have said xenopobic, and you may have a point re lack of demand. But I still don't think most of them have the appetite to open their horizons - someone here said they wanted to be near family etc, well fine if being near to mummy is more important than going somewhere different, and btw being helped witth your move and pampered all the way so there's no hassle, fine, but i think it shows a lack of ambition and or / curiosity that can only be a bad thing

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

Dele was shit all tournament! Stupid useless Spud!

Kane had a stinker but you may be right about lack of service. Plus it seemed like kind of like Messi is for Argentina, Croatia had several men on him and telling the others to step up which none of them had the talent to do.

Sterling faded in the second half but for all the ridiculous abuse he gets, he ran Croatia's defence ragged in the first half and you saw how utterly ineffective Rashford was when he came on. Hoping Southgate didn't buy into the narrative and sub him off for that reason.

I guess Croatia are the slightly better team on paper so it was a fair result ...... but damn .... with a few better decisions that game could have been won and we could have been in a WC final!

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Agree re walli and sterling, and yes Croatia were the better team

As for Kane, i thought he was starting to look off his game before last night, he really seems to be unreliable form-wise, plus i agree with those who say he was too deep, but was that southgate's instruction, or was it him thinking he had to do a 'captain's job' and help the team?

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

Dele was shit all tournament! Stupid useless Spud!

Kane had a stinker but you may be right about lack of service. Plus it seemed like kind of like Messi is for Argentina, Croatia had several men on him and telling the others to step up which none of them had the talent to do.

Sterling faded in the second half but for all the ridiculous abuse he gets, he ran Croatia's defence ragged in the first half and you saw how utterly ineffective Rashford was when he came on. Hoping Southgate didn't buy into the narrative and sub him off for that reason.

I guess Croatia are the slightly better team on paper so it was a fair result ...... but damn .... with a few better decisions that game could have been won and we could have been in a WC final!

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No idea why Sterling was taken off. I thought Kane went into a shell after missing that early chance in the first half. Southgate should have taken off Alli or Lingard for Rashford. Heck, even Danny Welbeck would have injected something into the game at the latter stages. Wasted subs. Dier, Rose and Vardy made no difference.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Ok, maybe i shouldn't have said xenopobic, and you may have a point re lack of demand. But I still don't think most of them have the appetite to open their horizons - someone here said they wanted to be near family etc, well fine if being near to mummy is more important than going somewhere different, and btw being helped witth your move and pampered all the way so there's no hassle, fine, but i think it shows a lack of ambition and or / curiosity that can only be a bad thing

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I think in general "them foreigners" have more of an appetite to work in England than English people do have to work abroad. Part of that might be the "island mentality", I think part of it is the language thing. English has become somewhat of a lingua franca so them jonny foreigners are always going to find it easier to come here than our players will to go there. Bah.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

Dele was shit all tournament! Stupid useless Spud!

Kane had a stinker but you may be right about lack of service. Plus it seemed like kind of like Messi is for Argentina, Croatia had several men on him and telling the others to step up which none of them had the talent to do.

Sterling faded in the second half but for all the ridiculous abuse he gets, he ran Croatia's defence ragged in the first half and you saw how utterly ineffective Rashford was when he came on. Hoping Southgate didn't buy into the narrative and sub him off for that reason.

I guess Croatia are the slightly better team on paper so it was a fair result ...... but damn .... with a few better decisions that game could have been won and we could have been in a WC final!

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Alli usually plays in that role Sterling was in and relies on someone like Eriksen to put him in. He rarely got into goal scoring positions because he was asked to play deeper along with Lingard - a role neither of them are used to. They’re not creative players and so Kane was isolated and dropped deeper too. Midfield was the biggest problem and using those two players there was exposed once the Croatian midfield took control in the second half.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think in general "them foreigners" have more of an appetite to work in England than English people do have to work abroad. Part of that might be the "island mentality", I think part of it is the language thing. English has become somewhat of a lingua franca so them jonny foreigners are always going to find it easier to come here than our players will to go there. Bah.

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I think English players refusing to go abroad is a big reason why we've been unsuccessful.

Even Jack had an opportunity to play abroad but he's chosen eternal mediocrity at West Ham. It's so disappointing.

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Originally Posted by GP

I think English players refusing to go abroad is a big reason why we've been unsuccessful.

Even Jack had an opportunity to play abroad but he's chosen eternal mediocrity at West Ham. It's so disappointing.

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Jack has been a boyhood West Ham fan. All that talk of being a future Arsenal captain never happened.

Unfortunately the money on offer in the Premier League provides them with a very easy comfort zone to stay in.

I've lost some respect for Wilshere. He wants a clear path to walk into the first team even at the expense of his own development. I would have liked to have seen him at least fight for a starting position this season until January. Hand in a transfer request after if you still can't get into the team and haven't learned anything new from Unai.

England played 2 good teams and lost to them both.

They were lucky to get as far as they did.

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Originally Posted by dostoy

England played 2 good teams and lost to them both.

They were lucky to get as far as they did.

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Ooft. Bit of a bleak way of looking at things but fairly accurate.
I'd counter that though by saying I did enjoy watching our games, I thought we mostly played well and they made much less hard work of beating some teams than they have on previous occasions.
Getting to the semi-final flattered us, had the draw not opened up so kindly we probably wouldn't have, but there seemed a bit more about this England team than 4 years ago when we went in with low expectations and they still disappointed us.
We do lack quality though.