Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

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Originally Posted by Özim

Yes I do, in fact Vieria alluded to this saying he was happy then he heard we'd accepted an offer from Juve and once he heard the club wanted to let him go he decided he should move on.

It was always Wengers' plan to build some sort of super youth team, we were never going to replace him, the replacement was Cesc.

I'm not saying it strenghtened us, I didn't agree with it and would have never wanted to do this, but Wenger saw it differently as we can see from his obsession with signing young players and putting them in the 1st team in subsequent years, he always maintained they were close to delivering success, he was wrong of course, but that was clear to all but him.

We're moving away from the subject of Gazidis though, IMO he was a failure, a year ago most fans would have wanted him out, sure Wenger went and there were a few changes, but it was alll too little too late for me, he sat there for years accepting mediocrity and positively encouraged it, all whilst picking his paycheck, he wasn't proactive and never made any obvious changes, commercially some of our deals were also questionnable over the years with out rivals dwarfing these.

Gazidis for me allowed Wenger to get away with underperforming, he never created a fuss and tried to push him, he was just a yes man agreeing with Wenger on everything up until the very end, despite it being clear we were nowhere near good enough or ambitious enough.

I can't say I'm sorry to see him go, I'd rather see someone more proactive and hungrier for success on the field, for me Gazidis was all talk, good luck to Milan that's all I can say.

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I’m not going to argue this all day with you. Project Youth started under Dein. We sold players without adequate replacements under Dein. Also, Dein is a huge Wenger supporter. Do you think he’d have had Wenger sacked? We’ll never know. But what we do know, Dein left in April 2007. After the Invincible season we finished 2nd, 4th and 4th before Dein was kicked off the Board. The path was set and under investment had already kicked in. Saying Wenger had his mind set on project youth despite dropping down the table just proves that Dein was complicit and couldn’t or wouldn’t convince Wenger to invest in better players like Vieira had already warned. Biggest names we signed after the Invincible season were Rosicky and Gallas.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

I’m not going to argue this all day with you. Project Youth started under Dein. We sold players without adequate replacements under Dein. Also, Dein is a huge Wenger supporter. Do you think he’d have had Wenger sacked? We’ll never know. But what we do know, Dein left in April 2007. After the Invincible season we finished 2nd, 4th and 4th before Dein was kicked off the Board. The path was set and under investment had already kicked in. Saying Wenger had his mind set on project youth despite dropping down the table just proves that Dein was complicit and couldn’t or wouldn’t convince Wenger to invest in better players like Vieira had already warned. Biggest names we signed after the Invincible season were Rosicky and Gallas.

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There's no argument really, history tells us Dein achieved a lot more in his time with us than Gazidis ever did, we won titles, cup, european trophies the lot, we also had some of the best players we ever had (we kicked it off by signing Bergkamp).

I'm not sure if Dein would have put up with underperforming for so long, or whether he would have had a word with Wenger, encouraged him to sign some better players and gone and done it, Gazidis certainly didn't.

Zim not sure youre being entirely fair to Gazidis. Even though we could reasonably castigate him for staying mute while Wenger reigned supreme, it must be clearly obvious that Kroenke was the one fixated with Wenger. i am pretty sure Gazidis could read the tea leaves of our downward spiral at least 5 years ago, but when it seemed like we had reached a nadir in 2014. Wenger popped up with an FA cup win. Maybe in Kroenke`s eyes that was a big deal. I was ambivalent as many were towards that win against Hull as we all knew Wenger would milk it for all it was worth. Gazidis was one of the best paid CEO`s in the league, why would he jump ship if another better offer was not on the table?

This is not a stout defence of Ivan but you and I would have probably done the same, bide our time. However, at this point of time I wouldnt like him have dumped us for the floundering Rossoneri at the crescendo of a long struggle against Wenger. Im seriously of the thinking that there is no palpable lifestyle difference if you have 20m or 50m in the bank, For that you need to jump into triple digits. Why jump into the unknown because a little more money and share options were on the table? Milan are currently worth less than most PL teams, they are that bad.

On the other hand he may have become sick of genuflecting respectfully before Kroenke and this was an opportunity to stick it to him after all those years of stiffing him in favour of Wenger. That I can relate to.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Zim not sure youre being entirely fair to Gazidis. Even though we could reasonably castigate him for staying mute while Wenger reigned supreme, it must be clearly obvious that Kroenke was the one fixated with Wenger. i am pretty sure Gazidis could read the tea leaves of our downward spiral at least 5 years ago, but when it seemed like we had reached a nadir in 2014. Wenger popped up with an FA cup win. Maybe in Kroenke`s eyes that was a big deal. I was ambivalent as many were towards that win against Hull as we all knew Wenger would milk it for all it was worth. Gazidis was one of the best paid CEO`s in the league, why would he jump ship if another better offer was not on the table?

This is not a stout defence of Ivan but you and I would have probably done the same, bide our time. However, at this point of time I wouldnt like him have dumped us for the floundering Rossoneri at the crescendo of a long struggle against Wenger. Im seriously of the thinking that there is no palpable lifestyle difference if you have 20m or 50m in the bank, For that you need to jump into triple digits. Why jump into the unknown because a little more money and share options were on the table? Milan are currently worth less than most PL teams, they are that bad.

On the other hand he may have become sick of genuflecting respectfully before Kroenke and this was an opportunity to stick it to him after all those years of stiffing him in favour of Wenger. That I can relate to.

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I don't disagree, thing is though you'd think if that was the case he'd have moved on, he didn't though he stayed, doesn't really paint a great picture of him to be honest, suggests he's not that interested in making a difference as long as he gets paid.

For me though I'm just looking at what he's done and IMO that's precious little, so he got paid a stackload and got hefty payrises for making no noteable difference and now he (if you believe he didn't support Wenger, note when he quick he thanked Wenger so this may not be as clear cut as we think and he was always the first one to back him when he was there - he didn't have to if he disagreed with him) has decided to move on as soon as he has a chance to make changes.

I don't and never rated the guy, he came from the MLS, did next to nothing and then moved on once the spotlight was firmly put on him, poor show.

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Originally Posted by Özim

There's no argument really, history tells us Dein achieved a lot more in his time with us than Gazidis ever did, we won titles, cup, european trophies the lot, we also had some of the best players we ever had (we kicked it off by signing Bergkamp).

I'm not sure if Dein would have put up with underperforming for so long, or whether he would have had a word with Wenger, encouraged him to sign some better players and gone and done it, Gazidis certainly didn't.

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You're measuring what was done on the pitch and much of what was done should be credited to Wenger and what he brought to the club. I’ll give credit to Dein for being able to spot a good manager and having a passion for Arsenal. Can’t fault him for that.

But if we’re talking about the stuff that falls under his remit such as the sponsorship deals and commercial aspect, we were dreadful.

We were signed up and tied into to one of the crappiest kit sponsorship deals in the league with that Nike deal. That deal hampered our earning potential and at a time where we were at the height of our success with players.

Another sponsorship deal that was a joke. Who signed off on the Sega Dreamcast sponsorship deal? :lol: Would love to get the information on how much they were paying, but Sega died as a company not to long after. Their pockets weren’t deep at all. We also had that crappy O2 deal. Our recent sponsorship deals has enabled us to sign players like Ozil, Cech, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mkhitryan and dish out bigger contracts. It’s no competition on that front.

Also, our internal infrastructure. It was Wenger’s idea to build a first class training ground and it was Wenger’s idea to change the diets of our players. That’s where the new ideas stopped. We stopped developing our internal facilities and w’ve only just recently caught up with other clubs. How we scout, medical staff and facilities, the works…we were miles behind other clubs for far too long and were ran like a family business.

We had some real out of touch people at the club. Best intentions…some…but damn. I mean these guys were banking on us selling flats to help fund our transfers! There was no foresight, great planning or reaction to how things changed in football. Dein is included in that mess. I can’t take anything away from him during the good times, but he wasn’t prepared for the change in football. None of them were and we’ve had to adapt quickly.

In fairness the Nike deal was of it's time. This was before the game was awash with giant commercial deals, TV money, oligarch's and stupidly expensive tickets. It was only really United who could command a premium for their brand and that's why they were untouchable for so long. I think it was a stroke of bad luck that everything exploded at the height of our success and the stadium move.

Being tied down for so long though did show a lack of foresight, granted.

The game has changed so much from Dein's day to Gazidis', it's apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

You're measuring what was done on the pitch and much of what was done should be credited to Wenger and what he brought to the club. I’ll give credit to Dein for being able to spot a good manager and having a passion for Arsenal. Can’t fault him for that.

But if we’re talking about the stuff that falls under his remit such as the sponsorship deals and commercial aspect, we were dreadful.

We were signed up and tied into to one of the crappiest kit sponsorship deals in the league with that Nike deal. That deal hampered our earning potential and at a time where we were at the height of our success with players.

Another sponsorship deal that was a joke. Who signed off on the Sega Dreamcast sponsorship deal? :lol: Would love to get the information on how much they were paying, but Sega died as a company not to long after. Their pockets weren’t deep at all. We also had that crappy O2 deal. Our recent sponsorship deals has enabled us to sign players like Ozil, Cech, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mkhitryan and dish out bigger contracts. It’s no competition on that front.

Also, our internal infrastructure. It was Wenger’s idea to build a first class training ground and it was Wenger’s idea to change the diets of our players. That’s where the new ideas stopped. We stopped developing our internal facilities and w’ve only just recently caught up with other clubs. How we scout, medical staff and facilities, the works…we were miles behind other clubs for far too long and were ran like a family business.

We had some real out of touch people at the club. Best intentions…some…but damn. I mean these guys were banking on us selling flats to help fund our transfers! There was no foresight, great planning or reaction to how things changed in football. Dein is included in that mess. I can’t take anything away from him during the good times, but he wasn’t prepared for the change in football. None of them were and we’ve had to adapt quickly.

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If you want to know what Dein did, read this, it's a whole lot more than Gazidis ever did, the guy actually invested is own money into the club, he didn't just take:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...ole_at_Arsenal

As MO said the deal was a deal made in a time when big deals weren't the norm, yes mistakes were made in hindsight but the guy did a hell of a lot for Arsenal. Unfortunately some of the other guys hindered our progress and it's cost us in the longer term but the damage has really been done mostly since Dein left, in 2007 our stock was still very high.

As for the players mentioned, a lot fo them actually came about through player sales, most of the money spent on those players came from transfer money we brought in from selling players, I'm not sure how much the commercial deals really played a part, but regardless our deals whilst Gazidis has been here have been nothing to ride home about.

In reality though you can't compare a guy who did so much for Arsenal and gave a lot and actually invested with a guy who just took never put any of his own money in and oversaw some of the worst times on the pitch in recent history.

As for Wenger, it's been proven what happens when he's is left to his own devices(which is what Gazidis seemed to do) without someone like Dein guiding him so we I don't need to bring him into it.

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Originally Posted by Özim

If you want to know what Dein did, read this, it's a whole lot more than Gazidis ever did, the guy actually invested is own money into the club, he didn't just take:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...ole_at_Arsenal

As MO said the deal was a deal made in a time when big deals weren't the norm, yes mistakes were made in hindsight but the guy did a hell of a lot for Arsenal. Unfortunately some of the other guys hindered our progress and it's cost us in the longer term but the damage has really been done mostly since Dein left, in 2007 our stock was still very high.

As for the players mentioned, a lot fo them actually came about through player sales, most of the money spent on those players came from transfer money we brought in from selling players, I'm not sure how much the commercial deals really played a part, but regardless our deals whilst Gazidis has been here have been nothing to ride home about.

In reality though you can't compare a guy who did so much for Arsenal and gave a lot and actually invested with a guy who just took never put any of his own money in and oversaw some of the worst times on the pitch in recent history.

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:lol: Providing a wiki link ....is that what it's come to? I know about Dein and what he did for the players by getting them their first major pay rise. I've argued it here before.

In terms of all the points I've laid out for the sponsorship deals and our infrastructure, planning and foresight...you haven't said anything because you can't.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

:lol: Providing a wiki link ....is that what it's come to? I know about Dein and what he did for the players by getting them their first major pay rise. I've argued it here before.

In terms of all the points I've laid out for the sponsorship deals and our infrastructure, planning and foresight...you haven't said anything because you can't.

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It just shows what he did as you seem to be questioning (if you know why are you debating it?) what he did compared to what Gazidis did, there's no real comparison really, he invested in the club, had a stadium built, signed numerous top players, made sure the club was a success on the pitch and the club is what it is today because of him, he features heavly in Arsenals' history and in very scuessful periods for the club, Gazidis won't.

As I said he was here until 2007, planning of the team was down to the manager really, he wanted to follow the youth route and thought it would be a success and Dein trusted in him (wrongly so, but like I said he did make mistakes), the sponsorship dea with Nike was good at the time, a time with when we needed money for the stadium, in hindsight it wasn't good but it's easy to look back and say that, at the time there weren't many massive deals.

He made mistakes but what he did do heavily outweighed his mistakes, Gazidis did previous little and now he's left, I'm not really sure why you're debating this as the reality is they're not comparable, Gazidis has been seen as doing a poor job for years up until about 6 months to a year ago, most aren't sorry to see him go which tells you all you need to know.

I'm excited to see what the future holds without Gazidis, IMO it's good news, no more Wenger, no more Gazidis, we're 2/3 of the way there now, getting rid of those that have held us back for so long.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

In fairness the Nike deal was of it's time. This was before the game was awash with giant commercial deals, TV money, oligarch's and stupidly expensive tickets. It was only really United who could command a premium for their brand and that's why they were untouchable for so long. I think it was a stroke of bad luck that everything exploded at the height of our success and the stadium move.

Being tied down for so long though did show a lack of foresight, granted.

The game has changed so much from Dein's day to Gazidis', it's apples and oranges.

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From what I remember, the Nike deal we signed along with the other sponsorship deals put us behind Spurs and Liverpool in terms of sponsorship revenue. It wasn't just bad compared to United. Spurs and Liverpool would out spend us on a regular basis. We just had a better manager who knew the transfer market.

Also, we didn't do pre season tours to try and grow our overseas fanbase. We were well behind in our thinking and strategy. But yes, apples and oranges. I don't doubt Dein's love for the club and he did well in the past, but Gazidis stepped into a situation where the game had changed dramatically. Hate to start talking politics, but it's like when people were saying Labour/Gordon Brown didn't fix the roof whilst the sun was shining.