Match reaction v the orcs

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I don’t think we’ve seen a great deal of passing range from Arteta. Not consistently anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s superior because we struggle to keep the ball when he’s in the team as well. I’d like to see how he plays next to Flamini to be honest. We may see a bit more of what he can do. It's good that we have more options in the middle. It's been broken for a while now.

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I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.

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I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

I think I'd have to agree with Blink. Arteta is our key man at dictating the tempo of a match. He slows it down when necessary, plays more direct when necessary, and always exerts his authoritatively calming presence on the midfield.

Rosicky is very different and offers another skill. He dramatically accelerates our play and can raise the tempo in ways others can't. He buzzes around and is quick over 10 yards. He looks to make things happen. As a result we may be more direct, but we may also just lose the ball.

In terms of a monotonous metronomic tempo setter, Arteta is our man.

That slow pace isn't good for us and especially not when we're a 0-0 or a 1 goal up. It's the playing with the hand brake on. :lol:

That shouldn't be a part of our game plan and seems very odd for Wenger to want that when he's always been about quick and sharp passing. When he refers to being patient and not rushing, I think he means composure in front of goal and not playing a load of high risk passes all the time.

We must be the only team in the world where neither our captain or vice-captain are guaranteed a place in the side...

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.

I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.

Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

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I'm not sure anyone gives us the complete package in those deeper midfield roles, but what we do have is a good set of modular options thet we can pick and choose according to the situation - if you want passing + high-energy, for example, then Rosicky is probably your man, but if you want passing + positional discipline / organisation then you'd maybe go with Arteta? Or if you want high-energy + positional discipline / organisation, but not so much passing, then go with Flamini. Obviously that's just a tiny selection of the traits we'd be looking at in each player, but you get the point...

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.

If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.

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I don't agree but clearly we going to need to agree to disagree,lol.

Rosicky for me (although I don't really count him as a team regular who can be relied upon) is the best player in the squad at accelerating the play, not necessarily dictating it in general. One might say I am splitting hairs but in my mind there is an important distinction to be made. Gerrard is also very good at speeding the play up but he is not nearly as good at taking it down a notch or switching it up. That said Rosicky is a more cultured player than Gerrard.

I think there are numerous occasions when our passing did not look coherent when Arteta was out of the team since he has been here imo and before Wilshere or Ramsey made the strides they did, Arteta's absence was the most sorely felt of our midfielder's. We have learnt to deal better with his absence because we have centralised and focused our defensive strategy, particularly in this calender year, on collectively hustling and harrying the opponents quickly.

I've even heard quotes which support that strategy from Rosicky who has spoke about our strategy in winning the ball back high up the pitch within several seconds, by getting as many bodies in the necessary areas as possible.

I don't see much argument for Diaby enhancing the free flow of our football and I was one of his few remaining fans on AHFC. He holds on to the ball too long and fails to release it when he should. That in itself nullified potential counter attacks and attacks although I have said many times that with time in the team he would iron that tendency out and hone his skills which he has seldom had a chance to do.

I am for a solution that fits the circumstances but there will be one player that is used more than the other as any manager does not want to perpetually tinker and rotate. I just happen to think that in an ideal world, Arteta would play more games than Flamini does.

Arteta was a panic buy as a good Everton player. He only caught the eye at Everton as a poor man's Fabregas but Wumger has turned him into a modern day Ray Wilkins. You could teach a monkey to make 100 sideways passes of 10 yards in a game.
He is not what we need for the future, he is too slow in all aspects of the way we play & if people suggest he is a DM, please have a look at his tackling - its woeful & almost always end up giving away a free-kick in dangerous areas.
He did OK in a young, poor midfield last year but now that Rambo's found some bollocks, Jack's got undoubted quality & we have the beautiful sound of Cazorla & Ozil ( orgasmic ) - he's destined for the bench.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I don't agree but clearly we going to need to agree to disagree,lol.

Rosicky for me (although I don't really count him as a team regular who can be relied upon) is the best player in the squad at accelerating the play, not necessarily dictating it in general. One might say I am splitting hairs but in my mind there is an important distinction to be made. Gerrard is also very good at speeding the play up but he is not nearly as good at taking it down a notch or switching it up. That said Rosicky is a more cultured player than Gerrard.

I think there are numerous occasions when our passing did not look coherent when Arteta was out of the team since he has been here imo and before Wilshere or Ramsey made the strides they did, Arteta's absence was the most sorely felt of our midfielder's. We have learnt to deal better with his absence because we have centralised and focused our defensive strategy, particularly in this calender year, on collectively hustling and harrying the opponents quickly.

I've even heard quotes which support that strategy from Rosicky who has spoke about our strategy in winning the ball back high up the pitch within several seconds, by getting as many bodies in the necessary areas as possible.

I don't see much argument for Diaby enhancing the free flow of our football and I was one of his few remaining fans on AHFC. He holds on to the ball too long and fails to release it when he should. That in itself nullified potential counter attacks and attacks although I have said many times that with time in the team he would iron that tendency out and hone his skills which he has seldom had a chance to do.

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Diaby has bad habits but Wilshere and Ramsey are just as guilty. The Liverpool game was a reminder of his potential. He’s had the odd few games like that for France and when paired with Song in middle some years back. His fitness is the only issue for me. He’d have been perfect otherwise and just what we need.

There is probably too much of an emphasis on Arteta. His slow and cautious pace is one thing but I don’t the issue is resolved without him in the team, as seem this season. I’d like to see different combinations where we don’t have both Jack and Ramsey in the squad. A combination of Flamini/Arteta, Rosicky and Ozil would be dangerous.