West Ham away (PL) Match Reaction Thread

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Originally Posted by Letters

It is a weird one because we're going to finish below Leicester but probably above most of the other usual suspects. It's been a weird season all round.
I think 'new low' is exaggeration but we're going in the wrong direction and need someone to turn it around, it's increasingly clear that Wenger can't.

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It's not weird, it's predictable Arsenal under Wenger collapsing in title races, it really doesn't matter who we are up against we always find a way to screw it up.

You think 'new low' is an exaggeration, think about this for a minute, we were 4 points clear at the top at Christmas and now we're 13 points behind the leaders, it's an abomination, it's totally and utterly unacceptable collapsing in title races against teams who have less experience and inferior squads, we're miles behind too, out of sight!!! It's a new low alright, a total embarrassment.

Spot on.

There is no defence anymore.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

A more elaborate way of saying 'shut up and take it'. ;) You're talking in circles. 'Wenger must go...the fans are powerless, the owner doesn't care, there are no obvious candidates, it's the players fault'.....:banghead:

You say you don't know what will happen next season but seem to have it all mapped out with the assumption that pressure from the fans won't do anything. Whether people protest or just stay away from games, it's better than nothing.

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Fans can do what they like I just don't expect it to acheive much, I could be wrong....as I've said if people want to protest it's up to them I don't object to it.
When I say I don't know what will happen next season I mean I don't know whether Wenger will walk away or not, I don't personally believe if he did it would have anything to do with fan protests though.

And I find it interesting how blaming the players does in the eyes of others absolve the manager, it doesn't. These aren't programmable androids footballers learn the tools to their trade at a very young age and either have it or don't. Yes a manager can lessen the effectiveness of a decent player by playing them out of position or playing them too often or not enough, or not picking the right players by considering the opposistion and Wenger is guilty of all this.

But players shouldn't need to be instructed to perform the basics, they should know. And this is why the players are at fault as much as the manager....well either at fault for being lazy or just not good enough.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Fans can do what they like I just don't expect it to acheive much, I could be wrong....as I've said if people want to protest it's up to them I don't object to it.
When I say I don't know what will happen next season I mean I don't know whether Wenger will walk away or not, I don't personally believe if he did it would have anything to do with fan protests though.

And I find it interesting how blaming the players does in the eyes of others absolve the manager, it doesn't. These aren't programmable androids footballers learn the tools to their trade at a very young age and either have it or don't. Yes a manager can lessen the effectiveness of a decent player by playing them out of position or playing them too often or not enough, or not picking the right players by considering the opposistion and Wenger is guilty of all this.

But players shouldn't need to be instructed to perform the basics, they should know. And this is why the players are at fault as much as the manager....well either at fault for being lazy or just not good enough.

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You're having a debate with yourself. Knock yourself out.

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

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:coffee: circles.

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Wenger is there as long as Kroenke wants him there, fans don't attend matches?? No worries they can be replaced with fans who will or tourists who will. Plus the TV money is so high that it mitigates for any decrease in gate receipts.

If Wenger wants to stay beyond 2017 he will.

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I honestly don't know what will happen at the end of next season, but even if Wenger goes there is no overwhelming obvious choice to succeed him. No Wenger is not good enough, but are any of the candidates we have been linked with up to the job?.
I think Leicester City and Ranieri are proof that the influence a manager has is overstated, Wenger needs to go because he hasn't got the ruthlessness to instigate a root and branch change in the squad.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

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We don't and can't know what players we really need or if we in fact need a new squad, which is very unlikely. A new manager will have to figure that out. I don't blame the players. I mean I'll blame them if they fuck up on a match to match basis or if they are habitual under-performing fucks like Theo Walcott. But in terms of the tragic mediocrity we are trapped in and the lack of a backbone when it come to the fight, that's all Wenger and the culture he has built.

It can't be the case every player through the doors over the last 10 years has been weak or unambitious. It can't be the case we haven't stumbled on a single leader in all that time. The environment at Arsenal breeds complacency and arrogance and entitlement. Wenger insists on having control of everything so this is his team, his complacency, his arrogance, his lack of ambition and it flows down through the players and out to half the fan base. This is where the 4th place trophy comes from, Wenger's divided and inverted priorities. Please the board, please the players, please the fans, please the media. Yes, it's bloody tough. But the best way to do the job is to compete hard and win, then by one means or another everyone ends up happy. Pleasing the board while reaching the minimum benchmark everywhere else is a losing policy, the opposite of what's required. That's Wenger's choice and he has to live by (though apparently not fall by) his choice.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:coffee: circles.

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The two things don't necessarily contradict each other. Wenger in my view will be there as long as Kroenke wants him and the only alternative to this is if he walks away, obviously the statement "as long as Kroenke wants him" is dependent on what Wenger himself wants to do.

So when i say i genuinely don't know what will happen, i don't know whether Wenger will sign a new contract or walk away....those are realistically the only two options.

I think it's fair to say he won't walk away. And it's fair to say he won't be sacked.

The big question is, will he be offered a new contract, and will he take it?

I think he will be offered a contract.

And I think he'll take it.

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Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm

I think it's fair to say he won't walk away. And it's fair to say he won't be sacked.

The big question is, will he be offered a new contract, and will he take it?

I think he will be offered a contract.

And I think he'll take it.

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My feelings too. I don't see Wenger starting out with a new club at age 67 and I don't see any sign of him wanting out of the game. So where is the only place he can get his fix? Both owners have made a point of coming out to support him, they absolutely want him here. Are they really going to be hunting around for a replacement next season? And if not and they don't have a replacement lined up then Wenger will be staying. Will they pay any attention to what the fans think or do? Only if it affects the bottom line financially and the club has pretty much sealed off that possibility given the queue waiting to buy tickets.

Something dramatic will have to happen to shift this guy. If he gets that new contract the "always see out my contract" clause will come into effect. There will be no point protesting, it will be a done deal. Next season is the one where the fans will have to step up in a big way. The last chance to shift this guy before 2020.

Delusion is an option. We could all just pretend that spending a few quid in the summer (surely the club has to concede this much at least) will make a big difference and next season will be the moment when we eventually challenge. Delusion will be the only real option for those who want to get anything back from supporting the club. It's going to be like the delusional spuds. Only worse because they are above us now.

Unless we start playing decent football on a regular basis. Maybe that could happen? Maybe we'll drop the tippy-tappy? Could that happen?

Me :pal: