The Welbz Thread (official)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I am invisible

In all honesty, and in spite of the fact that he's been around since about 2008, I don't think a lot of Arsenal fan (myself included) had actually paid a whole lot of attention to Danny Welbeck until he signed for us? I would imagine most people's first reaction was the same as mine: to be spectacularly underwhelmed, because we were rummaging around for one of Manchester United's unwanted squad players on deadline day, when most felt that we should have had the striker situation sorted out weeks or months (or years!) earlier. And the mood was then further soured by the fact that ManUre were smashing out deals for Falcaos and Di Marias (signings are the new trophies, after all). (Although, to be fair, I'm sure a lot of the outpouring of grief was just the usual football forum faux-outrage, for the sake of sarcasm and comedy, and generally just having something to tall about?) But anyway, once it was all done and dusted, and we'd had a chance to make even the slightest of slight efforts to dig out some YT clips, and see what rival fans were saying, I think he started to look and sound like exactly the kind of player that we need for the CF role (as we play it), and someone who would add a lot of the attributes that our attack has been desperately lacking. There's still a fair amount of uncertainty over what exactly we should expect from him, but the two goals against Switzerland certainly won't have done any harm in that respect!

And he's not Sanogo - that point cannot be stressed strongly enough. He's. Not. Sanogo.

To be fair, I'm not sure anyone has said that Welbeck is a better player than Falcao on an individual level - just that the deal was better, and that United may have made a serious cock-up here? They're basically paying £20m to borrow a player for 8 and a half months, whereas we've signed someone who could potentially lead our line for the next 7-10 years. But worse than that (from they're POV), they've potentially (significantly?) improved one of their closest rivals for the CL spots, when they really didn't have to. Just my opinion here, but I think they would have done their chances more good if they'd simply done nothing (kept Welbeck and not signed Falcao) and left us to work with what we had until the new year...

---

I'm not sure it matters a whole lot that our deal is better in honesty. There's is a signing capable of winning them the title and ours is not though I think it's important to note we couldn't afford Fatcow in any case. I haven't warmed to Welbeck any more than two weeks ago but for the fact he now plays for us and not the detestable northerns....but I have rated him for some time and hope that he does manage to climb to that next level.

Just as well I have rated him for a while because I'm not exactly enthused by Wenger's current comments on him shall we say, notwithstanding Syn's debunking of British reporting. Whilst I don't believe Wenger spends 17 million just because of another players' 3 month injury, I'm not convinced Welbeck was part of any masterplan or long standing desire Wenger had for him.

The failure to bring in a world class forward continues to frustrate in any case. You either make one or sign one and we seem to have done neither.....and for some time now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

A lot of these rumours from newspaper journalists have just made their own stories up to sell. You can watch the press conference on Arsenal.com - about going to Rome, he was arguing against the criticism he got for being away from Arsenal on deadline day, he said it's 2014 and you can make contact from anywhere (same way he bought all his other signings while being in Brazil). The rest was just usual cryptic "buy my future book and you'll find out" WUMery.

Wenger did not say he wanted a loan deal over a permanent deal - that's what the papers have made up. A question was asked about whether he would've taken Welbeck on loan, and he said 'if it had an option to buy, yes'. If anything it suggests he wouldn't have done a one year loan deal but wanted the permanent option.

Also about where he would play Welbeck, he mentioned a few times that CF would be his strongest position.

---

Well debunked!

If Welbeck scores tomorrow remember to look over at Gazidis and clap him for signing him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I'm not sure it matters a whole lot that our deal is better in honesty. There's is a signing capable of winning them the title and ours is not though I think it's important to note we couldn't afford Fatcow in any case...

---

I'm looking at it more in terms of the relative gains that each club can expect from their respective new signings? The way I see it, Falcao hasn't gone to Man U to replace Welbeck on the bench - he'll be a serious challenger for first-choice striker - so the gain they're looking at is how much more of an upgrade he will be on van Per... van Cunt, I beg your pardon, or Rooney (whoever gets dropped)? For me, he's a better goal-scorer than both of them, but I'm not sure I'd say that he's so much better that he could win them the league? For us, on the other hand, the gain will be how much of an upgrade Danny Welbeck is on Yaya Sanogo (a striker so shit that he doesn't even have a goal-scoring record yet!), so I think we're looking at making potentially bigger strides as a team from our signing, even though, player-for-player, Welbeck isn't in Falcao's league (yet ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

...I haven't warmed to Welbeck any more than two weeks ago but for the fact he now plays for us and not the detestable northerns....but I have rated him for some time and hope that he does manage to climb to that next level...

---

Fair play to you then mate, if you've rated him for some time - you may exclude yourself from that bewildered minority / majority that I was talking about, who have had to take a crash-course in Danny Welbeck this last week :good:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Van Gaal showing what a tiny "man" he is. Fergie was the enemy, but you could never imagine him stooping to the level of this pygmy.

---

Sounds like someone's strainin' to do some expalinin' to the OT faithful to me! Whatever though, Louis - you're only making yourself look small-minded and petty there, and a little bit silly too, in comparing Welbeck's scoring record to that of van Persie/Rooney/Falcao, when it's pretty widely accepted that he's never really been given a proper run as a CF in his time at Man U (and wasn't even guaranteed a starting place in any other role either)?

I'm sure Welbeck won't give too much of a shit either, if some old bloke that he's worked with for a matter of weeks doesn't rate him - when you look at the outpouring of opinion from other current and former players, team mates and coaches, you have to say that van Gaal's opinion falls in the vast, vast minority. As you say, he should just pin it to wall, use it for motivation, and live for the day when you can ram it down his throat...

The thing I like about Welbeck after watching him recently, is that if you give him the ball, he will run, take on defenders & actually shoot whenever he can. Something that we recently seem to be lacking.

He's not overly concerned with the tippy tappy bollox :good:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I am invisible

Sounds like someone's strainin' to do some expalinin' to the OT faithful to me! Whatever though, Louis - you're only making yourself look small-minded and petty there, and a little bit silly too, in comparing a 23 year old Welbeck's scoring record to that of a 28/29 year old van Persie/Rooney/Falcao (especially when it's pretty widely accepted that he's never really been given a proper run as a CF in his time at Man U).

I'm sure Welbeck won't give too much of a shit either, if some old bloke that he's worked with for a matter of weeks doesn't rate him - when you look at the outpouring of opinion from other current and former players, team mates and coaches, you have to say that van Gaal's opinion falls in the vast, vast minority. As you say, he should just pin it to wall, use it for motivation, and live for the day when you can ram it down his throat...

---

I think Van Gaal is fair in his comments. The age doesn't really matter. Van Gaal is after instant success and it's a big gamble but of the type he's clearly hired to take. Rooney and Van Persie are better than Welbeck so in terms of winning the title this year, if someone had to go, it should've been Welbeck. For someone who had a more long term plan, I think Rooney should've been thrown out a year ago to accommodate someone who might actually do some justice to a £250k a week salary.

As far as I can see, most of the criticism/panic by the Man Utd fans and ex-players is based on the assumption that Welbeck could make similar improvements to Sturridge. And at the moment he has got it all to do. It's all set up very nicely for him though, he has to use the momentum and positivity of this new move. Nobody was paying any attention to him a month ago and now all eyes are on him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

I think Van Gaal is fair in his comments. The age doesn't really matter. Van Gaal is after instant success and it's a big gamble but of the type he's clearly hired to take. Rooney and Van Persie are better than Welbeck so in terms of winning the title this year, if someone had to go, it should've been Welbeck. For someone who had a more long term plan, I think Rooney should've been thrown out a year ago to accommodate someone who might actually do some justice to a £250k a week salary.

As far as I can see, most of the criticism/panic by the Man Utd fans and ex-players is based on the assumption that Welbeck could make similar improvements to Sturridge. And at the moment he has got it all to do. It's all set up very nicely for him though, he has to use the momentum and positivity of this new move. Nobody was paying any attention to him a month ago and now all eyes are on him.

---

I think there's ways of saying it though, that would have shown more class. If he'd come out with something like 'We had the chance to sign Rademel Falcao, one of the world's best strikers, and someone had to make way' then that would have been fair enough - it's obviously not going to be van Persie or Rooney that goes, and Wilson is still young and inexperienced enough to be a few years away from demanding a place in the side, so most people would have understood why it had to be Welbeck, without too much more needing to be said. I just don't understand the need to cast doubt over his ability and standard of play? It's all come out a bit prickly and defensive, and feels like an unnecessary attack on a young player who has done nothing but give his all for his old club...

I don't think Van Gaal carries much sentiment for United really, it's just a job to him.

I don't see what's so wrong about what Van Gaal said, he's said he doesn't score enough goals, that's a fact he doesn't.

He's signed a player who guarantees goals and got rid of one that doesn't, he's now got two strikers who can score plenty and Rooney who can also get is fair share, not a bad thing for him.

By saying Wellbeck doesn't score enough he's not insulting him, he's just stating fact, he hadn't scored a goal for a year for England before the other night which is further proof that he's not a guy who's going to bag you goals left right and center, we're just hoping he turns into Sturridge but that's by no means guaranteed, not many players start off scoring little and then go on to score loads.

Quote:

---

not many players start off scoring little and then go on to score loads.

---

:blink:

All this Welbeck/Falcao value talk is premature. I hope he flops but only time will tell and we'll see how he performs for Manure. There is no exact science or formula to this. We can talk about the value to cost ratio, his age, the loan vs permanent or whatever else...it won't matter if he performs well and gets them back into the CL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Özim

I don't see what's so wrong about what Van Gaal said, he's said he doesn't score enough goals, that's a fact he doesn't.

He's signed a player who guarantees goals and got rid of one that doesn't, he's now got two strikers who can score plenty and Rooney who can also get is fair share, not a bad thing for him.

By saying Wellbeck doesn't score enough he's not insulting him, he's just stating fact, he hadn't scored a goal for a year for England before the other night which is further proof that he's not a guy who's going to bag you goals left right and center, we're just hoping he turns into Sturridge but that's by no means guaranteed, not many players start off scoring little and then go on to score loads.

---

When a player leaves, a manager with any class says thanks for the service and good luck. This cunt has zero class, as is clearly evidenced. Plus he talks about standards. Well our standard is the Champion's League. What's theirs? And how would a twat like van Gall know anyway? He's dumped half the squad and resorted to a chequebook as his entire strategy (his laughable first attempt at managing the club having gone tits up. I've already noticed his tendency to take credit when things go well and pass the buck when they don't. Here he's using a young player to distract from his own glaring failures to date. What a joke the guy is, he comes lording it into the PL with his "genius" methods and his super fancy formations and promptly has his arse handed to him by all-comers, including the rout at the hands of the MK Dons. In blind panic he's started catapulting barrows of cash into the air. If he can't win with £400mill on the pitch then how bad is this cretin? What's his standard? Pretty fucking low so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

When a player leaves, a manager with any class says thanks for the service and good luck. This cunt has zero class, as is clearly evidenced. Plus he talks about standards. Well our standard is the Champion's League. What's theirs? And how would a twat like van Gall know anyway? He's dumped half the squad and resorted to a chequebook as his entire strategy (his laughable first attempt at managing the club having gone tits up. I've already noticed his tendency to take credit when things go well and pass the buck when they don't. Here he's using a young player to distract from his own glaring failures to date. What a joke the guy is, he comes lording it into the PL with his "genius" methods and his super fancy formations and promptly has his arse handed to him by all-comers, including the rout at the hands of the MK Dons. In blind panic he's started catapulting barrows of cash into the air. If he can't win with £400mill on the pitch then how bad is this cretin? What's his standard? Pretty fucking low so far.

---

Van Gaal has won everything in the game, he built an Ajax team who won the CL with players through their youth setup, so he's not really a chequebook manager, he's shown he can deliver with or without money.

That's besides the point however, most fans use to take the p*ss out of him and joked about him and the possibility of him coming here, because let's face it we all thought he was pretty average, that hasn't changed because we for some reason decided to buy him, Van Gaal was most likely asked why he sold him, his answer to that makes sense, he's not at the level of the others and doesn't score enough. Given the choice of Falcoa or Wellbeck you'd have to be nuts to choose Wellbeck, because like I said noone at our club rated him before we surprisingly signed him, people talked about players like Falcoa etc but never Wellbeck.

Is Wellbeck and upgrade on what we've got, well yes on Sangogo because the guy is dogshite, is he an upgrade on Giroud, Campbell or Podolski, not really. He wouldn't have been my choice for a forward signing, he wouldn't have even ever entered my mind, realistically we needed to replace RVP not sign another young player several levels below him who will take time to come good if he ever does, based on some idea that he might be another Sturridge.

Sturridge was a rare example of a player who came good after a move and scored lots of goal (think he showed flashes before Liverpool though), I'm not holding my breath for Wellbeck to become Sturridge mark 2, he could just as easily become Heskey mark 2 if you wanted to draw parallels.

Henry scored 23 goals in 121 games before joining us and he turned out ok. Ozim would have complained about that signing too.

Zim, the actual point is this - bosses with an ounce of class thank you for your service and wish you luck when you leave. They don't turn up at your leaving do and call you a cunt, do they? It's small and miserable to try to deflect the disquiet of the fans and mask an underwhelming start by taking a potshot at Welbeck on his way out, a kid who grew up at the club. Utd fans know this too - at least the ones who aren't a petroleum based product.

Quote:

---

Given the choice of Falcoa or Wellbeck you'd have to be nuts to choose Wellbeck

---

In a one off match, true. Over the course of a single season, maybe. We'll see how the injuries go. RvC is quality, but wasn't much use to them last year as he was in the morgue for most of it. At the end of this season, that's where the questions start. It'll cost another £50mill fee plus somewhere between £30-40mill in wages to sign him on a longer term contract. Word is he's lied about his age and is really 30. But even if he's only 29 next year, a new contract takes him to 32, 33 or maybe beyond as he'll be looking for his last big pay day. That's if he doesn't go full pelt to get a move to Madrid. So an injury prone, £100mill odd investment at the tail end of his career? That's chequebook management any day of the week. They'll get ever diminishing returns for that investment too.

As for Welbeck, not 24 yet, signed with his prime years ahead, if he comes good we've effectively stolen him. If he's no good we move him on and we'll still get a decent fee considering he's an International. If you ask who the better player is right now, the answer is obvious. If you ask about the best investment then the answer is not obvious at all. Considering we were getting nobody and we were going with Sanogo until January, Welbeck coming here means we've at least dodged a fatal bullet. But there's potential for the move to become much more important, time will tell if that happens.

All in all I'd be excited but nervous had we signed Falcao, I'm intrigued at the Welbeck signing. If we end up with a quality #9 who fits into an English core of players we have been building then this might be very interesting indeed. Ironically it was Utd who were the last to do something like this. But that would be lost on the likes of van Gaal.

Who's this Falcoa bloke?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

Who's this Falcoa bloke?

---

Didn't you post this before? :haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Munchies

Didn't you post this before? :haha:

---

Who?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

Who?

---

lols

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Munchies

lols

---

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOLS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOLS

---

lots of of of o fo fo fo fo fo of of of of of laffs?

:unsure:

Go home Munchies, you're drunk.

:penguin:

DAT GUY WELBZ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I am invisible

I'm looking at it more in terms of the relative gains that each club can expect from their respective new signings? The way I see it, Falcao hasn't gone to Man U to replace Welbeck on the bench - he'll be a serious challenger for first-choice striker - so the gain they're looking at is how much more of an upgrade he will be on van Per... van Cunt, I beg your pardon, or Rooney (whoever gets dropped)? For me, he's a better goal-scorer than both of them, but I'm not sure I'd say that he's so much better that he could win them the league? For us, on the other hand, the gain will be how much of an upgrade Danny Welbeck is on Yaya Sanogo (a striker so shit that he doesn't even have a goal-scoring record yet!), so I think we're looking at making potentially bigger strides as a team from our signing, even though, player-for-player, Welbeck isn't in Falcao's league (yet ;) )


Fair play to you then mate, if you've rated him for some time - you may exclude yourself from that bewildered minority / majority that I was talking about, who have had to take a crash-course in Danny Welbeck this last week :good:

---

Don't get me wrong... I've rated him for a while (a few others, syn and marc overmars I think, vocally did too) but I don't think he is away beyond the level he has proved so far and his scoring record often made my liking for him look sheepish. We will see what he can do with a run of games though....

I tend to think the Sturridge comparison is slightly lazy. Sturridge was unfortunate to find himself at 2 petro dollar clubs with a plethora of forwards. Sturridge was always a fantastic finisher. Even Drogba said he was the best finisher at Chelsea when he was there and I didn't think that was far fetched at the the time. Sometimes finishing alone is not enough, which is precisely why Giroud players over Podolski in attack.

Welbecks' finishing is no where near as polished or natural as Sturridge's but he does has his strengths even if Sturridge, he is not. He is more closely compared to Andy Cole, who had a knack for making the runs, but not a knack for making a whole in one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I tend to think the Sturridge comparison is slightly lazy.

---

They're both blackish and they're both English. How much more similar can you get?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balotelli Is Boss

They're both blackish and they're both English. How much more similar can you get?!

---

I feel more inclined to compare Welbeck and Sterling, they clearly both go to their barber and ask for the MC Hammer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I feel more inclined to compare Welbeck and Sterling, they clearly both go to their barber and ask for the MC Hammer

---

I don't think Welbeck has 7 kids to 8 different mothers though tbf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balotelli Is Boss

I don't think Welbeck has 7 kids to 8 different mothers though tbf.

---

Is that an exaggerated claim about Radio Raheem or is that actually the truth?

I thought he had a solid debut, real shame he didn't put away his chance, nice idea to chip Hart too.

I like the way he held the ball up and he is strong and pretty technical too. I think he could turn out to be a pretty decent signing.

I don't think there's any particular issue with his general game, the issue with Wellbeck has always been his ability to put the ball in the net, I didn't see the match but it kinda sounds like he missed a good chance at the weekend which is his achilles heel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOLOb...e_gdata_player

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Özim

I don't think there's any particular issue with his general game, the issue with Wellbeck has always been his ability to put the ball in the net, I didn't see the match but it kinda sounds like he missed a good chance at the weekend which is his achilles heel.

---

He's on odd one, in that he doesn't look like he's failing to put the ball away because his technique is shocking and he can't actually shoot - that chip over Hart was actually a lovely first-time effort under pressure? It seems to be more about decision-making than anything (e.g. he probably should have just rolled it to either side of the keeper instead of going for the cute option)? Hopefully that will improve as he gets more games under his belt as the CF...

I don't really get the criticism Welbeck's been getting for that missed chance. He did pretty much everything right and was very unlucky not to score, especially after you look at the angle it came back off the post. Half an inch to the right and it would have gone in. Maybe he should have gone for a simpler finish like invisible said, but it wasn't an easy angle to beat Hart like that either.

I felt very confident in the way he took that chance. He was composed, skilful and ultimately unlucky that he wasn't rewarded.

He didn't scuff it ™, it wasn't miles wide. It was a good finish, very unlucky not to score and make it a perfect debut.
As it was it was a pretty decent debut, looking like a good signing.

You might say he was unlucky, but you make your own luck to some extent, a top finisher would have most likely put that away, he's got a history of missing chances, so was this just bad luck or an example of an achilles heel, failing to choose the right option and put the ball away.

Ah, Zim. The one Arsenal 'fan' punching the air when it didn't go in just so he won the internet again.
Well done.