Am I alone in thinking that Wenger wouldn't be a bad director of football? Its the day to day coaching that needs sorting out most urgently...
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Am I alone in thinking that Wenger wouldn't be a bad director of football? Its the day to day coaching that needs sorting out most urgently...
I have no problem with him being on the board, I think he still has very good football insights and I think despite frustration with him, I'm not prepared like some on here to discount the massive positive influence he has had on the club.
Some seem to think the club that Graham and Rioch bequeathed Wenger is somehow better than what we have now, well there are always people that cry for the moon but the fact is our club is in a fantastic position and just needs a younger manager with better ideas to take us forward.
I see no reason to try and erase Wenger from history like he was Stalin.
Not director of football because I think it's a bullshit job and a totally pointless adornment in the modern gameQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
A total control freak as director of football? Kneecapping anyone who comes in to manage the club? Somebody who will likely be selected by Wenger in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
A disaster that could drag on for another 10 or 20 years.
We need a clean break from Wenger. His whole philosophy is the problem, not just his archaic methods.
I think there's only one way this ends now. With acrimony. We've known for a long time how much the owners and the board disrespect the fans but confirmation of Wenger's disrespect is fairly recent. And enough to make him unsuitable for any role at the club. I think the owners will try to keep him on, I believe the fans will need to be strong to ensure he is forced out completely.
Ferguson, a better manager than Wenger, was elected to the board but not in an executive position. Even a great like him made a disastrous last decision in imposing Moyes on the club. Best to cut the ties emphatically.
PS. Nobody is trying to erase Wengers legacy from the club. The man himself is doing a bang up job of that on his own
Let's be fair what is Wengers footballing philosophy, look at our performance on the pitch and it's fair to say it's variable and really it is utterly meaningless in any real sense.
I can't imagine a few years ago he'd have set up to contain and then break against teams like city, Bayern Munich and Barcelona so it's hard to argue his philosophy is that set in stone.
The issue with the squad and performances is down to a day to day lack of tactical preparation and a gameplan geared to specific opponents (we aren't Barcelona so playing our game as we seem to just makes us predictable) and the fact that we have been a confidence side, more than that a fragile confidence side. It's like a guy who is usually good at sex, has a girl laugh at his package and then his next few sexual encounters fails to get a boner that slight sticking in his mind.
We need a manager and a coaching team able to deal with those two key areas and get far more out of our current crop.
My issue with Wenger as director of football apart from the fact that I don't think it's a position I want to exist at AFC, is that most likely it will be his hands on the till drawer still.
No danger of Wenger's legacy being erased given the volume of football luvvies who have rushed to defend his appalling record of the last decade by highlighting the past. It's odd and inconsistent, sometimes these luminaries will tell you you are only as good as your last result, other times they will insist results from a decade ago warrant a free ride in the present. The records books will clearly state Wenger's achievements, those can't be removed. The same record books will detail his failures. Nobody has the power to rewrite the history. It all depends how Wenger wants to proceed. If he plods on he will cause the failures to outbalance the achievements and his overall legacy will be tarnished as a result. If he gets out while he still has a little credibility and respect he'll be remembered as Arsenal's greatest manager. Just. It's in the balance.
Of course, he'll have the final say on transfers and that in itself is enough to reject the notion of him staying on. We know all about his appalling philosophy in that respect. But I'm not just talking about his philosophy on the pitch or in the dressing room, I'm talking about his belief that a club should run as a business rather than a sports focused organisation. I can't think of any other club that places such ridiculous emphasis on delivering in a business sense even when it means failing to deliver on the stated aims of the organisation. We are here to win trophies, not generate financial growth. This is why Wenger accepts second best on the pitch, because football is his second and not primary focus. And if anything, since the money has come in, the focus has shifted even more towards business and away from football. Look at the state of the team. It is almost as if it has been entirely neglected whereas before at least we had a semblance of shape, tactics, the basics of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He's got to go. The club needs a mind shift, it needs to get away from everything Wenger stands for, which by the way is no longer good football, no longer ambition, no longer winning. All of the things you need to compete at the top are precisely what Wenger doesn't provide. So he has created a lot of revenue for the club, but even with that he doesn't spend it with a view to properly competing. Always just a couple of signings short.
If he genuinely believes he has done enough to earn a new contract than he's just full of shit and he would be deservedly hounded out.
I still tend to believe that he delayed the signing of his last contract even though the board left it there for him to put the ink on, and he even suggested himself he'd have walked away if he hadn't won the FA cup.
He has adapted his methods somewhat having mentioned the tactical approaches compared to the past, but frankly the learning curve is too steep for what many call an analogue manager in a digital age. He's too loyal to players, will always dismiss the opinions of the fans because he believes their anger is emotive, reactionary and ephemeral.
There is no doubt that the last couple of years has been an exercise in hubris, he knows full well that he is still here purely for himself to prove to himself that he can win things and do it his way, as Dein explained he does take things very personally and I think giving up now proves the likes of Mourinho and his other detractors right (unfortunately the longer he keeps going the more he is proving them right).
Aye, I want him completely gone too and for the reasons you have stated. I appreciate what he did back in the good old days but I don't appreciate what he's doing now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Que sera sera.
To be fair the mindset of Arsenal being a business will stay with or without Wenger, there are no football people on the board apart from Gazidis and he is essentially shackled as to what he can and cannot do. He brought in Wim Jonker and Shad Forsythe behind Wengers back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I think unfortunately things may improve with a new manager, but with a new manager the bottom line is that the most important thing for the club is the bottom line.
Agree with a lot of that. The question I would ask about the purse strings, however, is whether this would be such an issue under another, more effective tactical manager? Here's why. I wonder whether our criticism over Wenger's transfer policy is principally because we don't seem to have the level of technical talent to go with the 'non-tactical' approach that he favours. Put another way - is the talent in our team sufficient to have delivered the league this season. I would say the answer to that is a resounding yes. Is the talent at Wenger's disposal currently equal to that of Spurs; Leicester; West Ham this season, or Chelsea last year when they were champions - I think so. We have seen this season a shift in effectiveness between teams with so-called world class talent and those who operate effectively as a unit. We have seen also the failure of many 'star' names to deliver success for their respective teams. I don't think that this development can be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Wenger has signed some 'world class' talent in recent years, and there is no reason to suppose that this approach would be altered with a new manager - even if he 'went upstairs'. It is generally felt that a superior coach and tactician could do more with our 'lesser' players. Also, another manager would surely not persist with/reward high earning but underperforming players as our manager tends to do.
Yes it could be argued that this season is an anomaly, and that our traditional competitors are likely to come back stronger on the back of massive investment on the playing side. It could be said too that in Europe big spending on 'world class' talent is necessary for success. But let's look first and foremost on the need to re-build our team and take a new direction on the playing side. This is the remit of a coach, and I'm not sure that Wenger as a director of football would prevent this. One thing that a director is not is responsible for the is the training ground or the team's tactics; set up and playing style.
Last - you need to look at the set up of our club. We have an extremely unhealthy bias at the moment with a manager who is involved in every aspect of the team; investment; wage structure and coaching at a micro management level. Like Kano, I am deeply worried about what happens in the power vacuum that would accompany his leaving - in circumstances where there is basically noone at the club with the experience to step in - and an incoming manager simply could not be expected to step into Wenger's shoes and take over all the functions that he occupies, at the same time as getting used to his new footballing role. I think that this could be a recipe for disaster that might be lessened by Wenger taking a more administrative role. Most of us recognise that a quick fix to our current issues on the pitch might well be an effective assistant coach - yet this will never happen while Wenger is manager. Would Wenger going upstairs (something far more likely to happen - and to persuade him giving up the day to day reins) - not be an alternative way to achieve this change?
If he joins the Board and gets pally with Stan and co, I think he'd really tarnish his legacy. If results still continue to go south under a new manager, if we're still not spending as we should or signing dud players, ticket prices keep going up...etc I think Wenger's rep would take a battering. You'd have to wonder what he's doing upstairs and if he's still having an influence. It's best to have a clean break. Take himself out of the firing line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Im starting to think the best thing all round is if Wenger dies.
At least then we could all celebrate his career with an all encompassing respect party and it would keep all the ex players and media and wengerites happy :good:
Jesus wept.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
He's an £8m cunt so he deserves it.
3 score and 10 is the allocated number of years anyway so Wenger is almost thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Oh come on maccy, it was tongue in cheek :lol:
Never say things unless you mean them
I remember about 10-12 years I actually suggested the idea of pushing Pascal Cygan down a flight of steps, the risk of paralysing or killing him appeared to be justified by the fear of Wenger continuing to pick him.
And now you're suggesting exactly how he should die!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus