Match Reaction v Barca (home) 15/16

I think it's hard for us to go out at the last sixteen for the sixth season in a row and not think here we go again irrespective of who our oponents were.
Barcelona are the best team in Europe but they aren't unassailable, and I think it's understandable to be disappointed when despite on the whole playing well our usual failings conspired against us more than just Barcas quality winning through.

Giroud doesn't have it at the level we require, he's a decent striker but he looked out of his depth totally and it's hard not to understand why fans bang their heads in frustration thinking "we've had so much time to sort this issue, money isn't a problem now".
Any striker we bought for 40-50million would be a gamble, but it's a gamble we can well afford to take
A striker that has the confidence to find the net consistency also brings up the confidence levels of the other attacking players knowing that there is less pressure on them to find the net and they are less likely to snatch at chances.
Also there is the frustration of persisting with players who simply aren't good enough like Flamini.
I don't think there was much issue tactically, In games like last night we tend to operate a more direct style of play and use pace as well as long passing.....we were also happy to play the ball in behind the defence.

You can count out a more aggressive approach because Barca bring their own ref. Yes they are a very good team, nowhere near as good as we were at our best btw, but they also have a regular advantage that's just huge. Their style of play is greatly assisted by the fact every time they are put under pressure they hit the deck and their man blows his whistle. That's not an excuse for our inadequacies, but it's a factor in their superiority.

More to the point, Giroud. He came to us as a bang average striker at 25 or so. 4 years later, he is still a bang average striker. Ditto with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere and now Ox. The only players to have improved in any measurable quantity are Koscielny and Monreal latterly. So what are we doing. Take for instance a player with no pace like Merts. Do you believe players cannot be made to improve even latent speed. Some clubs hire sprinters like Linford Christie and other pros, to work on the defects in specific areas of players. Do we do this? Or do all our attributes emanate from the great Khali: Monsieur Wenger?

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Originally Posted by IBK

For once I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. I think Giroud has excellent feet and reactions for a big striker. His size means that he is not the most maneuverable in tight situations, but I think its a bit harsh to blame the player for this. I do feel that he is coached to lay off the ball for others, and to pick up one two's - and I would agree that his decision making last night reflected perhaps being wedded too much to this approach.

Striking wise I feel that our problem is that 90% of the time we deny ourselves any space in which to create proper chances. I've said before that our build up play compresses so many bodies in front of the opposition's goal that snatched chances or otherwise, it is almost impossible to score. We look impatient in the final third, and it hugely frustrates me to see so many of our final passes go astray - its almost as though there is no telepathy between the ball carriers and those whose job it is to make runs...unless its a piece of genius from Ozil, or Cazorla's on the pitch. This team looks unbalanced, and IMHO this is why scoring is being made to look so difficult.

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He has good feet for bringing the ball down but you’ll rarely see him take the ball under control in a tight situation and fashion out a shot for himself. With his back to goal, he’s not nimble enough to turn to face goal and pop a shot off. It’s not really a case of blame, I’m just saying this is the sort of striker we have starting up front. We either have to change our philosophy to suit him or change the striker. Not being manoeuvrable in tight situations hurts our attack because we’re often playing against teams that sit deep but he’s also too slow on counter attacks to lose his marker. It’s a double edged sword and when certain players are underperforming or out injured, his weakness is further exposed.

As for our tactical approach and the passing philosophy, I agree that we overplay at times. I think the midfield are the worst culprits but a striker that’s forgotten his natural instinct shouldn’t be playing for us. It’s a predator turned vegan. Unless you’re still learning the role, I don’t get how your natural game can be coached right out of you within a space of 4 seasons. He’s an established player and not one of the youth players. He’s always struggled to create his own space from the first season and that hasn’t really changed. Again, it’s not his fault it’s just the type of striker he is. I’ve often questioned why Wenger has gone for this big target man striker instead of someone with pace and agility. He likes these team player target men types and I think it has a lot to do with sharing the goals around the team.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Yes. Good summary. I really don't feel that angry towards the team or Wenger for last night. What we needed against the best team in the world was a 100% flawless display - but that is an almost impossible feat to achieve in any game. Merts played well - apart from his mistake, but if we are objective how many CB's have games where they don't put a foot wrong - the difference is that they don't have Messi waiting to capitalise. Flamini didn't mean to give away the pen. We all know he's a loose cannon - but he was retained for cover and to a degree its not his fault that he is being used as a 'go to' guy lately.

Up front we are misfiring - but I don't buy simply that all our forward players are off form. Barca missed a few chances of their own, but these are forgotten when you win. What concerns me more is how ponderous we are in the build up; and how lacking in composure we are in front of goal. This looks to me like players trying too hard - and not finding the rhythm and understanding required. This particularly applied to Sanchez last night - whose biggest flaw in my view is trying to take on too much and do too much himself.

Yes - we can rail against Wenger for not bringing in a better striker - but for me that's a debate for elsewhere. Last night's results showed simply the difference between us and a world class team.

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Aye, totally agree IBK, I'm not angry about last night because I expected, in fact we put in a better performance than I thought we would. I thought tactically we looked pretty organised until they scored. The manner in which they scored though really exposed our lack of shape at that given time and more or less undid all the good work we had done prior to it.

Offensively is definitely becoming a concern though and I agree in that I think that the players are trying too hard, in fact at times yesterday they even looked nervous and were snatching at chances, I suspect a lot of that has to do with a lack of confidence.

We need to start getting it right offensively otherwise this season could end badly.

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Originally Posted by Jeebus

Whilst I agree with you about the transfer policy, it doesn't change the glaringly obvious fact that under a better manager we could have won last night quite easily.

Put out that team with Fergie or someone or pep, etc in charge and the result is completely different.

Whatever it is Wengers vision of what the players should be doing and how the game should be played is now, after 12 years, irrelevant and nothing more than a pipe dream.

It's like trying to finish a puzzle with parts from a different jigsaw and waiting for them to fit and make the picture look good, and when it fails, finding bits from another jigsaw and hoping for the same thing.

Never going to happen. Time to move on and try someone / something new.

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Yep, Wenger just makes stuff difficult and I think it's unnecessary, but maybe that's for another thread. I'm done with him too, not for last night, even if we win the league Wenger needs to go IMO as I just don't see enough progression in the team, I think he holds us back TBH.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think it's hard for us to go out at the last sixteen for the sixth season in a row and not think here we go again irrespective of who our oponents were.
Barcelona are the best team in Europe but they aren't unassailable, and I think it's understandable to be disappointed when despite on the whole playing well our usual failings conspired against us more than just Barcas quality winning through.

Giroud doesn't have it at the level we require, he's a decent striker but he looked out of his depth totally and it's hard not to understand why fans bang their heads in frustration thinking "we've had so much time to sort this issue, money isn't a problem now".
Any striker we bought for 40-50million would be a gamble, but it's a gamble we can well afford to take
A striker that has the confidence to find the net consistency also brings up the confidence levels of the other attacking players knowing that there is less pressure on them to find the net and they are less likely to snatch at chances.
Also there is the frustration of persisting with players who simply aren't good enough like Flamini.
I don't think there was much issue tactically, In games like last night we tend to operate a more direct style of play and use pace as well as long passing.....we were also happy to play the ball in behind the defence.

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With the striker situation, I don't even think we need to spend £50m -£60m on a player. Giroud should have been dropped 3 or 4 games ago. Just try someone else up front and rotate to keep things fresh. Welbeck, Walcott and Sanchez should be getting games up front. Heck, Campbell was a striker right? I just don't get how we can allow a player to go so along without a goal and persist when we've seen this pattern in seasons before. The player's I mention get dropped for less.

Let's not forget the points Wenger chucked away with his antics in the early rounds of the tournament. If you don't want to face Barca in the last 16 then maybe try a bit harder to top your group. But we know this because of all the other seasons he fucked up the same way.

If we'd have won yesterday it would have been lucky, Barca are light years ahead of us in terms of quality, it shouldn't be that way but it is, that's why every year we get knocked out at the last 16 stage, that's our limit.

These lucky wins which end up in courageous failures shouldn't hide the fact that we fail because we're not good enough, just because we beat a decent team when they have an off day it doesn't mean we're top notch, if a top team plays well against us they put us to the sword because in the end we don't have a great team, there's plenty of ways we could improve it, a top notch striker, a better CB, a quality DM, a top notch winger.

Too many CM and not enough players who's natural position isn't CM, up front I'm sorry to say we're average, we have Walcott who scores from time to time but for 10 years has failed to really live up to expectation, Giroud who scores a few goals and then disappears for 2 months, Wellbeck who is like Bambi on ice and will never be a top notch striker as his play is far too erratic and Sanchez who is a quality player but isn't an out and out striker and who's goals have really dried up this season (he's been really poor recently too).

In the end I expected Barcelona to win this tie comfortably, just look at the personnel they have, even when they don't play that well they have players who win them games, other than Sanchez we don't.

Yes Barcelona are superior and should beat us, the more important question is why after 10 years are we so far behind them and why the manager has failed to deliver on the big stage for what 18-19 years in the CL.

We need a better manager and some better players, until we get that we'll always fall short, I accept we aren't coaching players right, but at the same time some of them just aren't good enough, a striker who goes missing for months several times a season just isn't a player we should be relying on to be our number 1 forward.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Let's not forget the points Wenger chucked away with his antics in the early rounds of the tournament. If you don't want to face Barca in the last 16 then maybe try a bit harder to top your group. But we know this because of all the other seasons he fucked up the same way.

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I'm sorry to say it but Wenger is a loser who always comes out 2nd best and is happy with that, the amount of times this happens it shouldn't be a surprise, there's no momentum and an inability to deliver when it matters most, every season we get tougher games because we come 2nd in our group and even when we do get lucky and get someone easier (Monaco) we blow it because we're unprepared and unprofessional. A better manager may not win everything with these players, but he'd do a much better job of beating opposition he should beat.