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That's a bit of a false equivalence.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
The FA Cup is regarded far more highly than any other domestic cup.
With the rise of the CL it has somewhat lost its sheen admittedly but I still regard it fairly highly and it's still a "thing" in the way the league cup really isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would be enough given the spend Arteta has been allowed. But it's not nothing.
No it was viewed more highly, but it’s really no bigger anymore than the Copa Del Ray or the German CupQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I mean, there's no objective measure of this but I'd suggest in terms of popular opinion you're not correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
There's something about the history of the FA Cup which still gives it more prestige than any other domestic cup.
You seem to be confusing you thinking something with everyone thinking it.
I’d say you’re doing precisely what you accuse me ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I think there’s always commentators who go on about the magic and prestige of the Fa cup, but it feels to me a bit like a desperate sales pitch. Maybe the Fa cup should have the same lustre that it once had, but let’s be fair we come from a time where the Fa cup final was the centrepiece of the whole season. You had cup final day on the Beeb where the program would begin at least three hours before kick off. And now? It’s shunted back to an early evening kick off, and it’s not unheard of for it to be played on the same day as league fixtures
I think there’s a little more to it than my opinion you know
I would say that it is a generational thing.
It definitely has lost something in prestige for the younger gen (or last 20 years at least) since the CL came to the fore.
Maybe as KSE says it is a generational thing - growing up in the era where Cup Final day was a "thing" the whole country stopped for and there was a real buzz about before and after.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
When we've won the FA Cup more recently it has meant something to me. If we won the league cup I guess I'd care in the same way as I do when Arsenal Ladies win a trophy. Sure, I'm not completely indifferent as I always want Arsenal to do well, but I honestly wouldn't really care that much. When Coventry "scored" that "winner" against Man Utd last year I yelled (before the spectre of VAR which looms over every goal did its thing), were that the league cup I wouldn't have been watching.
These two statements:
a) The FA Cup has lost a lot of its prestige and
b) It's still a meaningful competition which is widely regard as a major trophy
Can both be true and are not contradictory.
I think there’s also a difference between saying that the FA cup is not a significant trophy and saying that it’s more significant than the league cup. With the exception of the final against Birmingham city I’ve never remotely been bothered by us losing in that competition.
Of course the FA cup still throws up very good games, the 4-3 game with Liverpool and Man United. The Coventry game you cited, but that doesn’t make it a significant trophy not relative to the league title or the European cup as an award. I’d say there’s often better games in the Fa cup than in the Champions League…the Champions League has become a rather dull competition. The semi final between PSG and Dortmund were the only games I especially remember from last season that weren’t our games.
But for a truly ambitious club, it’s not really controversial for me to say Fa cups are nice but they are the window dressing compared to the prestige of being the champions of England or Europe. Put it in tennis terms, the League is a grand slam title and the fa cup is an ATP tournament like Indian Wells
That isn't controversial, but there's a big gulf in terms of how much I care about the FA Cup and League Cup. If we won the latter I honestly don't think I'd care that much, obviously it's always nice but it's not something I'd be crowing about to anyone and if I did then I'd be mocked. I think people in general care more about the FA Cup - I'd refer the honourable gentleman to the FA Cup match threads on here, look at people's reaction to us winning. I don't think people would have reacted anything like the same way with the league cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Unfortunately these days for top clubs it's very much CL then PL then FA Cup, and for the next tier one could argue "Top 4" would be up there with the FA Cup. It's a sad state of affairs, but for me an FA Cup would be meaningful - but also not an adequate return on investment, again I don't see that as a contradiction.
When the league was never a realistic prospect, winning the fa cup was good. Now that it is, it feels like at best a consolation prize and not much of one
In that context, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I wouldn't be indifferent if we won it, but it wouldn't be enough for me either to make me think Arteta can get us over the line in the biggest competitions.