Match Reaction vs Man Utd (home).

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Originally Posted by mastermind84

he probably wasnt ready, but its happening now and its added an element to our attack that wasnt there before.

The problem is the right side. Ramsey did a good job on Sunday but he hasnt got the speed to do it out there and he is our best CM. Santi's legs are gone. Ox isnt really a threat out there and is often better for the opponent. Its a big issue.

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The reason Ramsey plays there is because of his defensive work and coming into the middle of pitch to act as another man and keep the passes going. Wenger has settled on Santi/Coq in the middle and Ramsey is going to stay where he is I think.

Also, interesting to read that the players had a separate meeting to gee themselves up for this game, making it a game 'for the manager'. Souness said after the game that was a weakness and I tend to agree - it should be the manager getting the team prepared mentally and physically for the game, not just a reaction by the players on behalf of the manager. Theo was saying 'we need to do more of this' but I'm not sure if that is possible if the key motivator is all wrong.

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I think that's a bit of a simplification. And in the last 2 seasons we've won a trophy in each. People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance." I was roundly criticised for saying that maybe, just maybe, it's a little early to be throwing in the towel after one game.

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Really?

And then you follow up with this simplified response.

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People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance."

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Knock it off, man.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Really?

And then you follow up with this simplified response.



Knock it off, man.

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That produced a genuine :lol:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

And then you follow up with this simplified response.

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Have a look back at the match reaction thread :good:

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Originally Posted by Kano

The reason Ramsey plays there is because of his defensive work and coming into the middle of pitch to act as another man and keep the passes going. Wenger has settled on Santi/Coq in the middle and Ramsey is going to stay where he is I think.

Also, interesting to read that the players had a separate meeting to gee themselves up for this game, making it a game 'for the manager'. Souness said after the game that was a weakness and I tend to agree - it should be the manager getting the team prepared mentally and physically for the game, not just a reaction by the players on behalf of the manager. Theo was saying 'we need to do more of this' but I'm not sure if that is possible if the key motivator is all wrong.

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I’m not surprised by the players having to gee themselves up. Invincible members will often say Sol Campbell really rallied them by constantly huddling the team and saying ‘together’. Wenger just seems too impassive at times. Stories circulated that he lost it with them in training and that must have had an effect. But we’ve heard stories like this before. I think it was a Liverpool game we were losing at half time and he just laid into them and they came out a totally different team. He doesn’t like doing things that way but that’s what’s held him back from being a true great. I think he trusts his players to mentally prepare themselves too often and then just sends them into battle.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I think Ox needs to be persevered with out right, and Ramsey needs to be tried in the CM position. I like Santi, but with Ozil on the left, and Alexis who can dribble and pass pretty much as well, I wonder if he is often a bit of a luxury in the team.

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Ox coming off the bench is okay at the moment I think. He had a good pre-season and had the opportunity to grab a starting spot but he hasn't really taken it. He's been dangerous up top but a bit of a liability defensively. But he'll mature into a very good player if he can sort out a few issues in his game. He might be the most likely candidate to come under pressure from outside interests next summer, I don't think Maureen was kidding about wanting him as part of the Cech deal. We'll need to keep him busy at Arsenal so he has the incentive to stick around long term.

I can't think of any player in the country who could have done a better job than Santi in the middle on Sunday. But that was against a team set up by an arrogant cock of a manager who thought he had more capable players. Santi doesn't do as well against more compact opposition who are more, how shall we say it, "English" in their approach to the game. This is where the squad rotation and Plan A, B, C could help us out a lot. And fewer games for the key players might mean fewer injuries and suspensions. I hope that's what we are going to see, a manager who starts appreciating and respecting every opponent and who finds an efficient way to organise and utilise the resources we have.

We also need more from our captain and vice-captains. It's time to start taking those roles seriously again. These guys should be a constant example and a constant reminder of what is expected at this club. They all sound like model citizens off the pitch, I think they need an alter-ego when on it. A bit more authoritative and bastardy please.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Ox coming off the bench is okay at the moment I think. He had a good pre-season and had the opportunity to grab a starting spot but he hasn't really taken it. He's been dangerous up top but a bit of a liability defensively. But he'll mature into a very good player if he can sort out a few issues in his game. He might be the most likely candidate to come under pressure from outside interests next summer, I don't think Maureen was kidding about wanting him as part of the Cech deal. We'll need to keep him busy at Arsenal so he has the incentive to stick around long term.

I can't think of any player in the country who could have done a better job than Santi in the middle on Sunday. But that was against a team set up by an arrogant cock of a manager who thought he had more capable players. Santi doesn't do as well against more compact opposition who are more, how shall we say it, "English" in their approach to the game. This is where the squad rotation and Plan A, B, C could help us out a lot. And fewer games for the key players might mean fewer injuries and suspensions. I hope that's what we are going to see, a manager who starts appreciating and respecting every opponent and who finds an efficient way to organise and utilise the resources we have.

We also need more from our captain and vice-captains. It's time to start taking those roles seriously again. These guys should be a constant example and a constant reminder of what is expected at this club. They all sound like model citizens off the pitch, I think they need an alter-ego when on it. A bit more authoritative and bastardy please.

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Oh I agree re Santi. When he is allowed to play, in common with all of our MF - he can be devastating in allowing us to pass at pace. Problem is that playing both him and Ozil against a formation that has become the favoured norm against us is a bit of a luxury - because there is no space to exploit, and Santi can tend to slow us down in these situations. The lack of space in these situations could be addressed by playing wider, and by having a more box to box type player like Ramsey in the centre - both of which would create gaps - and in addition Ramsey would give us a better defensive option for teams looking to break on us.

So - yes to rotation. But also yes to Wenger realising that he needs to help the players by setting up to address what he knows now is going to happen - particularly at home. Plus we need to come hard out of the traps in every game - because once the opposition needs to score merely to establish parity - then the 10 men behind the ball approach becomes a problem for them..

As for VC - I'd give it to Coquelin!

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I’m not surprised by the players having to gee themselves up. Invincible members will often say Sol Campbell really rallied them by constantly huddling the team and saying ‘together’. Wenger just seems too impassive at times. Stories circulated that he lost it with them in training and that must have had an effect. But we’ve heard stories like this before. I think it was a Liverpool game we were losing at half time and he just laid into them and they came out a totally different team. He doesn’t like doing things that way but that’s what’s held him back from being a true great. I think he trusts his players to mentally prepare themselves too often and then just sends them into battle.

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He does, that has always been the story coming out from ex-players, that he relies on their intelligence to figure things out for themselves. City last year too, where he admitted he took the advice of the players on the approach to the game, which I guess is a positive thing because it shows he is willing to listen and adapt still and perhaps not as stubborn as we thought. But then two games later we lose away to Spurs and embarrass ourselves at home to Monaco later that month too. Hoddle said that Wenger went into regular rages in the Monaco dressing room, throwing shit around and letting loose. He's obviously mellowed with old age but he probably still has it in him. That said, it was a strange sight seeing him come to the touchline to order a formation change. I honestly don't recall seeing him do that before.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think that's a bit of a simplification. And in the last 2 seasons we've won a trophy in each. People react because people get emotional about football and that seems to make them irrational. We lost at West Ham and it was all "woe is me, we have no chance." I was roundly criticised for saying that maybe, just maybe, it's a little early to be throwing in the towel after one game.



It is, but it's happening to every team every year. Maybe to us more than most but no team is completely consistent. City sweep all before them and then lost to West Ham and then get hammered at WHL of all places.



I disagree about the quality of our players, I think we're good enough to challenge properly.
I agree to an extent about not dealing with the weaker links - notably up front. My take on the summer's dealings, or lack thereof, is that Wenger didn't see the point in signing another Wellbeck, either sign someone who will push us - another like Sanchez or Ozil - or don't bother. If that is what happened then I agree with that, but the problem is he failed to land the big signing (it seems like he was chasing Benzema). If the result of that is we fail to challenge then he should be sacked. If Sanchez keeps his shooting boots on and Walcott stays fix then we might just have enough up front after all.

As I keep saying, Wenger should be ultimately judged next May. He shouldn't be judged after a poor result vs West Ham or a good one vs Utd. Obviously each game will change and shape options and the frustrations of the last 10 years will colour those opinions. So long as we stay in touch I'll feel we have a chance. We have a good run in - City away is our penultimate game, interestingly - and if we're in touch with 10 games to go I wouldn't write us off.

The key for now is to build on that Utd game and get a bit of momentum going.

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Letters. IMHO you are allowing your own mantra to colour your interpretation of what goes on here. People aren't 'throwing in the towel' after one game. All the debate is about really is whether people have faith in our team and its manager. You are entitled to take the view that you will wait and see what pans out over the season. Others are equally, and rationally, justified in seeing a disappointing defeat in which endlessly before repeated errors show themselves once again as evidence that they can already predict what is to happen.

You are, really, no more 'rational' than those who frustrate you.

As for emotion? Well my view is that by knocking this you are denying an essential - perhaps the essential - part of being a football fan. Plenty of posters on here analyse the failings (or successes) of the team. This analysis should not be dismissed because they are angry or frustrated at what they have seen, any more than yours should be because you are less passionate in your views.

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Originally Posted by Kano

He does, that has always been the story coming out from ex-players, that he relies on their intelligence to figure things out for themselves. City last year too, where he admitted he took the advice of the players on the approach to the game, which I guess is a positive thing because it shows he is willing to listen and adapt still and perhaps not as stubborn as we thought. But then two games later we lose away to Spurs and embarrass ourselves at home to Monaco later that month too. Hoddle said that Wenger went into regular rages in the Monaco dressing room, throwing shit around and letting loose. He's obviously mellowed with old age but he probably still has it in him. That said, it was a strange sight seeing him come to the touchline to order a formation change. I honestly don't recall seeing him do that before.

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Ahh, I never knew that about his Monaco days. You can see he holds it all back in most games but then you see stuff with water bottles. :lol: I think I recall him saying his stint in Japan really mellowed him out and changed his thinking on coaching.