Arsenal vs Aston Villa 18.01.2025 KO 17:30 GMT

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Originally Posted by Letters

I always find it a bit odd when people of a certain age do it - people who have been following football surely know how quickly things change during a season, during a game. At 2-0 and cruising on Saturday all was right in the world, and then... And in the NLD we go 1-0 down. OK, that's bad. But it's the first half and...lads, it's Tottenham. I believe in the history of Tottenham...


Of course it's less likely. By definition you have to type something and post it. That all takes time, it gives you a moment to calm down. Of course you can send messages in anger but, again, as you get older it should become less likely as you learn to think a bit about what you're writing.

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1) You’re still trying to rationalise emotional responses, the two things rarely if ever overlap

2) If what you said was remotely true you simply wouldn’t have some of the stuff you see posted on social media. No one is above it not even you. I suspect your response to me is motivated by emotion, I’ve challenged your post and your “must win” driver has been activated. That’s an observation not a criticism, because I do it I can recognise it when I see it

Good Post. I was absolutely gutted at the way we let a 2 goal lead slip away - it felt like a loss.

But I'm not going to go after our players or coach after this one. I'm not even going to point to the match officials. IMO we tried as hard as we could in this game, but the players are running completely empty - you could see this in the difference between the 2 halves. There comes a point where you cannot keep defying injuries; fatigue and sheer bad luck to maintain title winning consistency, and we are seeing this before our eyes.

I said a week ago that 4 points in these last 2 games would probably be the best we could hope for, and it was. It is so disappointing to see us falter in a season where the league has opened up a bit, and in which last season's Arsenal would be likely to win. But it is not our season, and we are somehow going to have to accept this and move on. This is not throwing in the towel, it is simply recognition that too many factors have gone against us for this team to be able to capitalise.

Been thinking a bit about why the season has felt SO miserable - almost from the off - in contrast to the last couple. I think its the desperation for us to win the league - having come so close last season - and because the way things have shaped up have meant that for 2 months now EVERY game has felt like a must win - nervy almost every time, and every dropped point has felt so seismic. It's the hope that kills, but also sucks the life out of us when each injury; failed chance; adverse decision inevitably rears its head. When you are constantly on the knife edge - these factors inevitably loom larger.

The problem is that until we are at the literal point of no return the heart will still cling onto the hope that we can somehow break this cycle and ressurrect our title challenge. But the head says that silverware is beyond us this season. Sobering, because without that hope things feel pretty hollow...

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

1) You’re still trying to rationalise emotional responses, the two things rarely if ever overlap

2) If what you said was remotely true you simply wouldn’t have some of the stuff you see posted on social media. No one is above it not even you. I suspect your response to me is motivated by emotion, I’ve challenged your post and your “must win” driver has been activated. That’s an observation not a criticism, because I do it I can recognise it when I see it

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I'm not sure this is a win or lose thing.
I find these sorts of responses irrational. You're just saying "yes, but they happen". OK. But I still find them irrational and odd.
A lot of the social media stuff is trolling anyway which is a different category.

I guess I just don't care as much as I used to - don't get me wrong I was annoyed by Saturday's capitulation but I find it odd when people absolutely lose their shit half way through a game or season as though they have literally never seen football before and don't understand how quickly things can change. It's like people leaving games early back when I used to go. I guess if you're 2-0 up or down then it's more understandable, but people doing it at 0-0 or when there's only a goal in it. Never understood that. How many "moments" have people like that missed. Is that really worth getting an earlier train for?

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Originally Posted by IBK

Good Post. I was absolutely gutted at the way we let a 2 goal lead slip away - it felt like a loss.

But I'm not going to go after our players or coach after this one. I'm not even going to point to the match officials. IMO we tried as hard as we could in this game, but the players are running completely empty - you could see this in the difference between the 2 halves. There comes a point where you cannot keep defying injuries; fatigue and sheer bad luck to maintain title winning consistency, and we are seeing this before our eyes.

I said a week ago that 4 points in these last 2 games would probably be the best we could hope for, and it was. It is so disappointing to see us falter in a season where the league has opened up a bit, and in which last season's Arsenal would be likely to win. But it is not our season, and we are somehow going to have to accept this and move on. This is not throwing in the towel, it is simply recognition that too many factors have gone against us for this team to be able to capitalise.

Been thinking a bit about why the season has felt SO miserable - almost from the off - in contrast to the last couple. I think its the desperation for us to win the league - having come so close last season - and because the way things have shaped up have meant that for 2 months now EVERY game has felt like a must win - nervy almost every time, and every dropped point has felt so seismic. It's the hope that kills, but also sucks the life out of us when each injury; failed chance; adverse decision inevitably rears its head. When you are constantly on the knife edge - these factors inevitably loom larger.

The problem is that until we are at the literal point of no return the heart will still cling onto the hope that we can somehow break this cycle and ressurrect our title challenge. But the head says that silverware is beyond us this season. Sobering, because without that hope things feel pretty hollow...

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I didn’t go into this season with the expectation that we would win the title, but even after the 98th minute equaliser by City I came away thinking that we could win the title. It was the injury to Rodri that made me feel that we should be winning the title. I thought then and I still think we have a better team than Liverpool.

I think only Salah is better than any player we have, the rest are at best on the same level or in most cases inferior to ours. They do clearly have a fantastic set up that has allowed a coach who had previously never been known outside Dutch football to take Klopp’s work and succeed with it. Klopp will be sick as a dog over this, because he’s a winner…the one title would never have been enough for him.

Letters will of course resent it when I say that they’ve been lucky, but like many words this is relative. Compared to us in terms of match officiating and injuries to crucial players they have been incredibly fortunate. Also they have more squad depth than we do, which in many ways I attribute to Klopp for trying to build on what was available to him when he first arrived rather than stripping out everything and everyone like Arteta did. People speak as though we had finished 8th when Arteta took over, no that’s the position we finished in twice in a row under his stewardship.

It’s also because Arteta does not trust a lot of the players to give them the game time in order for them to become squad assets, and he talks of a thin squad as if it’s not something that’s come about as a result of him as well.


In my view, with the amount of fixtures you have…you essentially need two teams with two players for each position that can be utilised at a moments notice, below that? Is where you have the academy players

Often it feels like we have players who can do a job in two or three positions and then other positions barely having a competent first choice.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I didn’t go into this season with the expectation that we would win the title, but even after the 98th minute equaliser by City I came away thinking that we could win the title. It was the injury to Rodri that made me feel that we should be winning the title. I thought then and I still think we have a better team than Liverpool.

I think only Salah is better than any player we have, the rest are at best on the same level or in most cases inferior to ours. They do clearly have a fantastic set up that has allowed a coach who had previously never been known outside Dutch football to take Klopp’s work and succeed with it. Klopp will be sick as a dog over this, because he’s a winner…the one title would never have been enough for him.

Letters will of course resent it when I say that they’ve been lucky, but like many words this is relative. Compared to us in terms of match officiating and injuries to crucial players they have been incredibly fortunate. Also they have more squad depth than we do, which in many ways I attribute to Klopp for trying to build on what was available to him when he first arrived rather than stripping out everything and everyone like Arteta did. People speak as though we had finished 8th when Arteta took over, no that’s the position we finished in twice in a row under his stewardship.

It’s also because Arteta does not trust a lot of the players to give them the game time in order for them to become squad assets, and he talks of a thin squad as if it’s not something that’s come about as a result of him as well.


In my view, with the amount of fixtures you have…you essentially need two teams with two players for each position that can be utilised at a moments notice, below that? Is where you have the academy players

Often it feels like we have players who can do a job in two or three positions and then other positions barely having a competent first choice.

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You are on a roll today mate - more good points.

You might have been more circumspect, and of course there's no guarantee of anything, but I think that many Gooners anticipated that this could be our season for winning the league before the season started. Many pundits did also. I think this was based on losing out so narrowly last time out, and our players having another season of development and experience behind them, and our (correct IMO) faith that Arteta could continue the team's development in our 5th stage. I agree with you that the Rhodri injury made this anticipation even more keenly felt.

I also agree that Liverpool have been, and continue to be lucky in a number of ways. I conceded to our resident Liverpool fan that this is not to disparage Slot - who is obviously doing a great job in his first season, but the form of an ageing Salah, plus rub of the green in games and injuries has undoubtedly assisted them (as it did us last season). I think it's fairly obvious. If their players of equivalent importance to them as Odegard, Saka; White and even Jesus had been out for any significant time, it's unlikely that they would be clear front runners. If only 2 of the number of fairly extraordinary reffing decisions that we have suffered had seen 2 of their wins converted to draws, they would only be 2 points clear of us.

You make a good point re Arteta failing to give adequate game time to squad players, but I'm not sure this is so true this season. It is evident that some of this has been forced on him, but the breakthoughs of MLS and Nwaneri, the playing time given to Merino (I see him as a squad player); even his use of Jesus (also effectively a squad player), and previously Kiwor, and trying to give the likes of Rice and Martinelli (even IIRC Saka) some breaks from playing time has IMO seen a different approach this season. Who has realistically been available at the required level but been kept on the bench this season? You could say that Nwaneri was under used, but he has just broken through and his injury added creedence to what the manager was saying about the need to manage his playing time judiciously.

Agreed re needing to have 2 teams...but in MF and defence particularly absent injuries we would haveCala/Big Gabi; Timber-White/Saliba (and for each other); MLS-Zin-Cala-Tierney at RB. We could also point to Rice/Partey/Merino/Jorghino CMF. Martinelli/Tross LW; Even Jesus/Havertz up front (where we were admittedly a player light). The only true holes before the season started were lack of cover for Odegard and Saka - but even for the former we understand that Nwaneri was earmarked, and I think even sceptical Gooners could not have imagined that Sterling would be so bad.

Over emphasis on flexibility of players/positions is food for thought though.

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Originally Posted by IBK

You could say that Nwaneri was under used, but he has just broken through and his injury added creedence to what the manager was saying about the need to manage his playing time judiciously.
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Although the other side to that is, if he had been given a bit more game time previously, would he have coped better physically with suddenly being called upon to stand in for Saka in every game?

If you look at how it's taken MLS a few games to get up to being able to play 90 mins without being knackered, maybe that shows we should have done more to acclimatise Nwaneri prior to his being needed

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Although the other side to that is, if he had been given a bit more game time previously, would he have coped better physically with suddenly being called upon to stand in for Saka in every game?

If you look at how it's taken MLS a few games to get up to being able to play 90 mins without being knackered, maybe that shows we should have done more to acclimatise Nwaneri prior to his being needed

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Fair point...I guess we will never know. I reckon that the departures of Viera and MLS, plus Areta's own comments about Nwaneri being Odegard's 'understudy' does leave a bit of head scratching over his lack of playing time in Odegard's absence. Maybe the manager was a bit to wedded to captain stodge (Merino)?

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think you can dismiss injuries, how many times this season have we been able to put out our strongest team. I know we live in a world of binary consideration but the fact is you can both excoriate Arteta for the choices he has made both in the transfer market and tactically. And at the same time understand that with constant injuries (and yes he takes responsibility for that as well) and the fact that officials have been atrocious with us hasn’t helped either. It’s the perfect storm

I’ve wanted to solely blame Arteta because of how furious I was (and still am) that we won’t be winning the title this season and in all likelihood won’t be for the next ten years, as the vibes being sent out by Man City are that they are going to be allowed to get away with what they’ve done. Which shows that money doesn’t just buy you silverware, it buys you leniency as well.

But I have to concede that even if we had a different coach than Arteta, who didn’t keep infuriating us with these tactical idiosyncrasies….Im not entirely convinced we would be any better off. It doesn’t mean he’s good enough to win us the important things, but ultimately there are so many factors at play.

What’s noticeable is that Arteta is talking about our lack of options on the bench, which feels like a thinly veiled dig at the owners. Arteta of course isn’t removed from blame from this, he took the decision to bring in Calafiori and Merino essentially gambling that our attacking players would stay fit and score as many goals as last season.

Take away the anger and disappointment which I don’t blame anyone for feeling and it all just feels more complicated than get rid of Arteta = major trophies. Which isn’t a suggestion we should keep him (although that’s a decision that’s clearly out of our hands, Wenger wasn’t removed because of fan pressure he was removed because he failed twice in a row to get us top four).

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The problem I have with Arteta having a 'thinly veiled dig at the owners' is that he also praised them as being the best owners just after he signed that lucrative £15m a year contract.

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Originally Posted by Letters

He's not right to post "Arteta :wave:" when we go 1-0 down in the first half of a game :lol:
Sorry, dude, that's just ridiculous over-reaction. I mean, you may be aware we actually won that game!
That said, I'm not disputing that this season is feeling like a slog.

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Yes but I would say that MO made that post almost tongue in cheek as well as a quick emotional response

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes you can. Of course it's a factor. Losing players like Odegaard and Saka for a period definitely affected things. You can blame a lack of squad depth, and that is fair, but we have had far more injuries to key players this year and of course that is going to have an impact.

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It's easy to blame injuries but at this point we are 5 years into 'the process' and we should have spent the summer buying in the right players to strengthen the squad in key areas (like cover for Saka that we needed for last season too)
Instead we hopped straight back on the GK and LB merry go round and wasted time and money.
This has resulted in 1st team players being flogged to death sometimes in positions they don't normally play which has exacerbated the problem.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Saka, mostly.

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Exactly the problem. We need more than 1 player to rely on and backup when he's not around.
He may come back strong but it's unlikely he'll be back to his best until next season.

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Originally Posted by Letters

And yet at this stage last season we'd scored...1 more goal than this. And while we're here, we were 5 points off the top last season - Liverpool were top.
This year it's 6 and they have a game in hand, but my point is things can change quickly.

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The stats unfortunately don't tell the whole story though do they.
We may have one more goal, but we have drawn more games and sometimes only scored 1 goal per game. In all those draws, an extra goal or two from the 50,000 chances we created in them is what was needed to secure the points.
All too often we passed the ball around the midfield 200 times and managed zero shots on goal.

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Originally Posted by Letters

But as I said overall what it all adds up to is us being in a fairly similar position to this time last year. I'm struggling to see us winning the title and it's frustrating what a procession it could be for Liverpool. But I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet.

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And that is the crux of the matter. We really should be on top right now with Liverpool chasing us. That is where a sign of a team in progression would be.
Instead we have completely stagnated and it's more likely we will be facing a fight to stay in the top four now instead of doing anything of note.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

The problem I have with Arteta having a 'thinly veiled dig at the owners' is that he also praised them as being the best owners just after he signed that lucrative £15m a year contract.

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Well this is essentially two different points

Because Arteta has signed a new contract rather than refusing to do so until the club pays out to bolster the squad

Doesn’t change the fact that Arteta or no Arteta, the owners are not putting their hands in their pockets

It’s really just unfortunately dealing with the reality that there is no quick fix to things. Our season reminds me of the season Liverpool had four years ago just without the title the previous season to cushion the blow