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The problem with Mourinho is that he is too abrasive a character to ever make what he wants (build a dynasty) a reality. Also, the other problem is after he leaves - he's such a cult of personality which is great for when he is at a club but afterwards...players pine to work with him again. Look at Ibrahimovic's quote about Mourinho, saying he brightens a room, whereas Guardiola pulls down the curtains.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
No cos its not that simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Lets be real though the Mancs should have beatern bilbao and had they had a better team like they should have they would have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
Not saying all teams in la liga are bad, but if bilbao were in our league where would they finish?
Ok so maybe saying he does not want the best for clubs is wrong, but i don't think he cares for clubs more them himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Because everything is about him not the club thats why, all the club he has been at the circus has been about him. he don't give a shit about the future of the teams he left.
As for you using him to belittle AW you, do we know he is a better manager then AW and it would take a brave man(poster) to say otherwise, i don't see why you need to compare them, its like comapring barcelona with Villa.
This would make sense if Wenger 'commanded' RVP to hit the post, Vermaelen to clear one inexplicably, Benayoun and Vermaelen to collapse in the six yard box and Ramsey to be a palooka. You could easily say we won 'because' of Wenger as he is the one that bought Arteta, someone that does 'take his own decision'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Well it is suppose had it been barca who were 10 points clear and Real pulled it back you be branded them bottlers by now. Non?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Even if W did tell any of his players not to shoot, They should use their brains when they have a chance to shoot and shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
But respect to Wenger for buying a player with balls even if it was a panic buy.
Just because he says pass pass does nto mean these lot can't uses their brains.
Tbh I genuinely think - on the basis of those two games, mind - that Bilbao are on the same sort of level as Man Utd. Certainly technically, Bilbao are on another level. Maybe Man Utd's grit and Englishness could get them a few more points over the course of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
On the basis of those 2 games (...and I don't think Man Utd gave up at any point - they were just completely outplayed), Bilbao would be right up there on our league. But obviously it's not fair to judge them on those two games only - maybe they did put extra efforts into that. Hard to tell. The point was though that there do seem to be some very good teams in Spain. The fact that Barca and Real Madrid are so clear is probably more a reflection of their quality rather than the chasing pack.
To be fair I don't think Wenger is a great tactician or a great motivator. To win trophies he's always needed a strong captain to provide the latter. I think we may have that now (if he stays) and as for great players...well, maybe not like at our best under Wenger but we do look to have the makings of a pretty decent side now. Need a few reinforcements but I don't think we're that far away.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Wenger has failed in some ways in the last 6 years but in other ways he's done well given the amount spent. You really shouldn't underestimate how hard it is to keep a side in the top 4 every single season. No-one bar Fergie has done it, it really isn't that easy. Given that he's done that we should have won some trophies along the way, that is where he has failed. The question for me is whether we're going in the right direction and I'm more hopeful for next season. Right now I am and IMO changing manager would be a far bigger disruption than it's worth, other clubs at our level have changed manager after a few trophyless seasons and it rarely improves things - sometimes temporarily in the honeymoon period but longer term it doesn't tend to.
Your not wrong Bilbao were much better and the Mancs were bad. (this is the team that will win our league). Says how bad our league really is tbh when a UTD will win the league because no one has really challenged them and city bottled it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
But i suppose your right there are a few better teams in spain.
The funny thing about Bilbao is, prior to Bielsa going there, they were far more Premier League-esque in style. Just goes to show what can be done with players willing to play in a different way. And I concur, think they'd be top half certainly, most teams would struggle against their work on the ball - I mean we've got top four in the past by playing football you wouldn't associate with the best way of playing in England. Bilbao are low down in La Liga comparitively but they're competing against teams that are encouraged to keep the ball too and some much better at it, plus they aren't used to coping with two extra competitions (they're in the Copa Del Rey final).Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
What gives you more hope about next season than about previous seasons? Myself along with other users have seen this over the years and frankly speaking, I just do not understand what is different this season that hasnt happened before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
- We go on unbeaten runs and make the supporters think we have turned the corner... check
- We look like we are just a couple of re-enforcements short of challenging again.. check
- We look to be doing our transfers done early in a season, doesnt ever happen.. check
- We look to finally have a good captain.. only for him to jump ship either the following summer or the next.. check
A strong captain (if he leaves we're screwed of course but I don't think he will)Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
More mental strength (winning 4 games in a row when we were behind, bouncing back from the QPR loss to beat City, winning games when other teams have slipped up to take advantage)
A real team spirit which hasn't been there in the past few years and players who have far more of a connection with the fans and seem to really care about the club (RvP, Ox, Ches, Jack if he's still alive)
Far stronger rumours about early signings than other seasons. The Podolski signing looks to be a done deal.
If you can't see that this looks different to other seasons then you've not been watching recently. It's not just me that feels this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Oh come on FY even you have to admit, there is a diffrence between this season ending at last.
Last year u felt horrible going into the summer, with Cesc and Nasri both leaving, the sqaud bottled the season and thats the truth, looked like we do even worse this season. Just seemed the club did not know where it was going
Like letters says the mental strength seems to have improved better then last season, we seem not have any drama's of players leaving in the summer.
I feel the club, manager, know what needs to be done and hopfully will do it. we don't have a Cesc saga to stop us strenhening etc.
With the news were are doing our business early seems exciting. Things can only get better after all.
If you've been to any games recently you'll know what I'm talking about.
There is a different feeling right now. More of a connection between fans and players (something sadly lacking of late).
That doesn't mean that the outcome next season will be different of course but the feeling right now is, you can feel it on match day.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
People are so used to living in the past they don't want to give the future a chance.
If as a fan you can't get excited about a new season then i just don't know.
A lot of people thought the same about Cesc. He looked like a great captain but on hindsight, he looks to be just about average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We have gone on unbeaten runs in the last 6 seasons without fail. In 07/08, we were unbeaten till about Jan/Feb I think, in 08/09 we went 16-17 games unbeaten, 09/10 we had a great run after the Chelsea defeat at Emirates (my first game at Emirates) till we decided to fold and die towards March (remember the loss to Wigan after leading 2-0 till 85 min?) then last season we were in 4 trophies till Feb.. what happened afterwards? I just do not see a different pattern this season to think it will be different.
As for team spirit- remember 07/08 when we thought that team looked awesome- Flamini, Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky, Ade looking unbeatable. How about the season before last when Ramsey's leg was snapped.. we thought after that game at Stoke, we'd take it to the next level. Remember 'Let's do it for Rambo'? I see no difference in this team spirit mentality bollocks of this season. I hope I am wrong but history tells me otherwise!
Podolski has been signed, so was Nasri and Chamakh a few seasons back. What was ignored was the need for re-enforcement's in defense and up front.
As for your last statement, No, I cannot see the difference unfortunately. Once again, I re-iterate, I hope I am wrong. I have said this for the last 3-4 seasons but unfortunately I get proven right!
What makes you think we wont have the same saga for RVP? He hasnt signed a deal yet and the longer it goes, the more rich boys will come sniffing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
In Honesty he seems to love this club, The Cesc thing went on for about a few years and he was only going to Barce which messed us up.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
RVP has no ties so even if he did go it would be quicker and for a decnt fee.
even if he goes we have podolski coming in which is a quality replacement.
I just think compared to last season it seems diffrent. Me personally was miserable going into last summer just did not know what was going to happen or where the club was going.
now it seems with investment in the team and the core players we have next season could be a top 1.
No they didn't. A captain that spends all their time making eyes at another club isn't a great one. I do think he did his best for us while he was with us but he clearly had one eye elsewhere all the time. I don't think anyone thought he was a great captain. He did OK but there were depressingly few other options. There was an article earlier in the season when we started to get it together citing RvP as one of the reasons, organising days out and helping the players build some team spirit. Also I think we have other strong characters in the squad like Ches, Jack and the Verminator. I hear the last of those cocked up at QPR but he ran 80 yards in the 95th minute to put the ball in the net vs Newcastle so you have to give him some credit there.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
You don't see the difference partly because you take such a black and white view on things (Mourinho is a GENIUS with no faults, Wenger is an IDIOT with no redeeming features - I may be somewhat exaggerating your stance but that's how it comes across), and partly because you don't go to games. If you did you'd feel the difference, especially the connection between the players and between the players and fans. That's something you don't see on TV.
I hope you're wrong too and I hope I'm right. I am the eternal optimist and I do maybe take a too rosy view of things but I see us heading in the right direction and I hope it continues as I'm sure you do. Wenger has his faults as do all managers but he deserves some credit after the mess in last summer (I've no idea whose fault that was, Wenger is not blameless but I don't think he should get all the blame) and getting the team playing again. Who'd have thought we'd be top 3 right now? Not me. To deny him any credit for that is massively unfair. Will we push on from here? We'll see. I'm sure you hope we do as much as me.
No you're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
We have been over all this before I guess, and the main difference in opinion is whether the manager should go or not.
I've always believed that there has been much more to the problems we've had over the last few years than just the manager. That said he doesn't escape without blame, and if we were a different club, I don't think he would still be there.
As far as I see it, it is a question you have to ask of the board. Why did they not sack him?
i) I think, as most people agree, he makes the club financially strong, whilst keeping us in the money spinning ECL.
ii) Is there / was there anyone else out there that could do the same job? Probably, but then, why not sack him, and actually do it....which would seem to point to
iii) The people that know the club, inside out, who are running a 750 million pound company, might just know there shit better than internet joe....and they actually think he's a pretty bloody good manager
You can look at Wenger and the team over the last 5 years, and I think EVERYONE who knows a bit about football, could point to the stupid, frustrating and bafflingly obvious holes in our team.
However, the KEY thing that has dissapointed me over the last few years, has been the players, their attitude, and their lack of respect for THE Arsenal.
Ade, Nasri, Diairra, Cesc, Cole, Flamini, Bendtner etc etc.
They all of them thought themselves better than our club. And despite their obvious talent (in most cases), did not make us a team that was going to win things.....
Which leads us back to now.
The fundemental principle about winnning shit....is having a team, who has strength through the middle of the park, talent when the game is looking beyond your reach on an off day, committment to the club / fans AND THEIR TEAM MATES (funny Nasri went missing on Sunday wasn't it...funny how Ade went missing when we beat the shite out of the scum)....and above all, a manager who believes in them, and get the best out of them.
I'm tired of seeing Wenger buy players for nothing, make them wealthy superstars, only for them to stab him in the back when a better offer comes calling.
I think this team, here and now, has (in the most part) players committed to the club. And that is where we can hopefully kick on from.
I'll always believe. It makes me a mug sometimes. But whats the point if you don't believe?
Nope it makes you a fan and thats what its all about. Believing and hoping for the best can't ask for no more from a fan tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Not saying we have to be delusional and pretend eveything is rosy, but having a bit of faith in no way makes you a mug.
It's is rather quite simple, hence I see no point in over analyzing. For the 1st time in a long while, true team spirit and resolve can be sensed. As I said earlier, we always tend to fade and drop from 2nd to 4th at this stage of the season, but this time around, we seem to be finishing strong for a change. Whether it does continue, remains to be seen.
Players the ilk of say a RVP, are less likely to leave and it will be easier to get quality players to sign up for us for the upcoming season. We are not going into the transfer market in disarray and with talks of our best players wanting to leave.
IMO, Wenger has managed to navigate the rough parts of the sea, went close to capsizing a few times, but somehow has miraculously managed to get us to steady waters and sailing pretty smooth right now. This towards the end of a season that started disastrously, but what it will do, providing he gets the team to maintain momentum, is to give him the opportunity to aim higher next season and that aim can be nothing less than the EPL title.
We were lingering outside the top 4 all season but have managed to haul ourselves back in at just the right time. We all know 4th place is the bare minimum target the club needs to meet, and the team has given everything to ensure we do it.
What I'd like to see next season is whether we can we put this sort of brilliant form together if we're involved in a title race. History suggests we stumble in that scenario, however thrive when our top 4 place is under threat.
I'm certainly looking forward to next season anyway but we must get RVP signed up ASAP.
This, But id be happy to see us Challenging for the title even if we don't win it, i'd like us to be up there longer then Feb/March/April.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshGooner
If RVP goes, it's all gone. Any confidence/optimism/momentum we have built up - game over. Back to the same feeling at the beginning of the season. We don't just need him to stay for the goals, he's the figurehead of the fighting Arsenal. We can't do another transition...we have to be at the absolute limit now. Although the moaners think nothing is changed and that fans will always continue to back Wenger, they're forgetting how bad the atmosphere was at part this season. You might not realise it, but it the 'Wenger Out' party keep picking up a lot of floating voters each time something horrible happens. Not horrible like a loss to QPR after a run of 8 wins...that shit happens to everyone. Horrible like pissing away a 2 goal lead to the spuds or losing our captain, again. Van Persie goes, Wenger's Arsenal is finished for good.
Good thing he's not going though.
But if he does, we're fucked.
But good thing he's not going.
I agree. If RVP leaves, we will be back to where we were last August. The longer the saga goes, the less optimistic I am about him staying. Wenger needs to do business asap and give RVP confidence that there is a great team around him to win trophies. If, as in the past, AW goes into a waiting period, we might as well pitch in and buy a ticket for RVP to fly to the next team he will be signing for.
RVP leaving now would be worse than Cesc, Nasri et al. It would certainly be the nadir for me.
Agree with all of this Losing RVP the MVP would be a disaster of the highest. I think there is a chance of him staying unlike Cesc who bitched his way to a move.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
IMO RvP won't sign if we don't finish in the top 4. He's a world class player and would want to be playing at the highest level. If we do, and I think we will now, then I think he will sign but yes, we need to get that sorted early and not have it drag on all summer while $ity et al wave increasingly obscene amounts of money at him. I think he'll stay because he's got a brain (a rare commodity amongst footballers) and wouldn't want to go somewhere as soulless as City.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
the thing is with RVP there is now only one club in england he would sign for, and that would be united. the only club that can pretty much guantee him trophies.
he would have seen citeh on sunday, realised they are all a bunch of money grabbing ****s, realised they are not a team and would have seen them bottle winning everything. why would he go there after seeing them fuck up?
Think if he went to any of the top 4 clubs he win cups with them, i just can't see him staying in the prem if he was to move, this would be his last big move and i think he want it to be to Madrid or Barca tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
We've just won 9 out of 10 at the business end of the season. City, the chavs and the scum are collapsing, we aren't. Anyone who can't see that's different is looking to pick holes come what may. A big name signing is already in the bag - doesn't mean he'll make it here but same holds true for any player moving to the PL. Where's Mata and Silva now? Good players playing in teams with bags of cash, but they still can't make the difference. Whereas we've had amazing seasons out of RvP, Kos, Ches, Song, Tomas fucking Rosicky if you can believe that! He's playing way better than Nasri, twice the player in fact.
Things are very different here right now. There's momentum, there's a team actually taking shape, the deadweight hasn't been on the pitch for months, Chamakh, Arshavin, Bendtner, Squillaci, Denilson, all gone. Young talent is coming through, Ox is a superstar in the making, Jack will be back, even Theo is playing. When it looked like we were going to finally collapse and drop out of the top flight the team dug in and played better than every other team around them. We hauled back 13 points on the scum and have turned them into a laughing stock. Last year the same shit was happening to us. So it's different for sure.
And Wenger has stayed 100% true to his beliefs throughout. Doesn't matter whether you agree with him or not, he said we had a team here and he turned out to be right. Will it all collapse next year. Maybe if we hope enough we can make that happen. Or we can just enjoy what's going on now, decent football again, results, good team performances, clean sheets, coming back from 2 down to hammer the enemy and end their season (instead of throwing 4 goal leads away). Why not hope for the best? The signs are there to say that hope wouldn't be misplaced. As fans it's surely better to do that and get some fucking fun out of the game rather than assume disaster. Better to say we'll win it next year and I HOPE I'm not proved wrong rather than say, hey I hope I'm not proved right but we're going to collapse.
It's different now and it can be different next season and the worst that can be said for anyone who buys into that is they have a belief in their team based on what the team is doing on the pitch right now.
Chelsea have won 8 out of the 11 games RDM has been in charge for.
Some collapse.
We've seen this all before with Arsenal. Yes its a good run but all its really done is convince Wenger he doesnt have to spend this summer cos he thinks this squad of players can handle it. It clearly cant.
Now you mention Podolski and hes a very good player but hes coming in to replace RVP so we arent really adding to our squad.
Same shit, different season
We've gone on good runs before. 07/08 we didnt lose til december. Season after we went on a 20 game unbeaten run IIRC with Denilson as our main man in midfield whilst Cesc feigned injury and pined for Barca. He came back and we had our asses handed to us in the Cup semi and CL semi. Pretty sure we had decent runs in the 09/10 and 10/11 season as well just like we are seeing now.
Its not enough. it might convince some of the gullibles on here that this club has changed. It hasnt. Seen it all too often and cant get too excited about it although admittedly beating Man City was my highlight of the season cos i actually watched that whereas i didnt when we scored 5 past Chelsea and Spuds
No, we haven't. I and others have explained why this feels different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Speculation. I don't think RvP is going anywhere. If he does then OK, we're screwed, but I think he'll stay and the Podolski thing shows we're looking to get business done early this time. Again, a clear difference from past years.Quote:
Now you mention Podolski and hes a very good player but hes coming in to replace RVP
Spoken like a true MOC member. :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
:good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
And I and others have explained why it feels the same. Ultimately one of us will be proved right. I hope its you guys. History suggests it'll be us.
As for RVP, when a player says he wants to leave contract talks til the end of the season, that spells trouble. You'll hear all the standard BS about how he wants to concentrate on the season etc etc but what it really means is he wants to see where this team is going, where we'll finish this season, what we'll do this summer and so on.
Best way of keeping him is to sign quality players, show him we mean business. This summer is massive.
Failure by Wenger to sign quality early in the summer could be the end of RVP and thus the team.
Im not holding out on much hope
But unlike those who left before its obvious RVP loves this club, where as for all Cesc saying it, you know he never really and his heart was with Barca.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Its not really clear if he wants to go like cesc where we all knew he was going, so really if he does decide to go in the summer we can only hope to sell to the highest bidder if it takes long then not much we can do, where as with cesc there was.
Don't think its fair to call people gullibles for believing in the best for their team because you don't makes them fans who want the best.
I agree its down to Wenger to prove that he has change and the clubs ambitions have changed.
MOC :cloud9:Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsi
(Also, good post NQ, fuck the doom merchants)