Agreed. Theo wasn't playing badly because the crowd were on his back. The crowd were on his back because he was playing badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
First half, he had a holocaust.
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Agreed. Theo wasn't playing badly because the crowd were on his back. The crowd were on his back because he was playing badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
First half, he had a holocaust.
He looked that way all season lets not make excuses for him, he has been shite end off and if the fans feel it they should say it, just like if they feel wenger makes wrong choices they should boo him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
even Wenger says he nearly too theo off at HT cause he was notplaying well.
there is this, but then htere is the fact he is reportly asking for a lot more money to play for us. i dont think that will help keep the crowd at bay. of course it could be media bollocks but when a player not playing well and then demands more money the crowd arent going to be forgivingQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
He messed up a few times, but it was that one where he had a clear run at goal and decided to pass to Van Persie who had 3 defenders near him. That really pissed everyone off. As Letters says, Wenger is probably one of the only managers who is so patient with repeated mistakes (which is one of his repeated mistakes) because although it does pay-off sometimes, it usually has not been. Must admit - nevermind half-time, I would've hauled him off at that moment. He has to learn. A bad first-touch, a wayward pass...things like that you can forgive because he's not the most gifted player. But a complete lack of cojones, nope, he can do one (though it did take some cojones to keep making those runs in the second half and keep at it).
The crowd will definitely groan when players fuck up a promising attack. It's just what you do. You can't really help it. It doesn't matter who it is that fucks up - Van Persie, Walcott, whoever. It's just that it happens to be Walcott far too often. If you make too many of them, people will start shouting out "FFS Theo". Big fucking deal, either stop fucking up or leave.
I don't think Walcott has got any unfair criticism from Arsenal fans. ****s like Hansen who decide to lay into him after he scores a hat-trick...yeah, that's a bit out of order. But otherwise, given this is his 6th year of top flight football, I think the fans have been quite good to him. And rightly so. He should grow some balls but otherwise, he's ok. Not good enough for us IMO but that's Wenger's fault for sticking with him. It's not his fault he's shit but he is a tryer. This season especially himself and Gervinho do work hard tracking back. But the only aspect I think he has improved on since joining is his finishing...when he actually decides to shoot instead of bricking it and passing up the responsibility, he's quite clinical. Maybe his runs are more intelligent now too (Van Persie's goal came about because Theo made a great run from out wide to centre...Ljungberg style).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
A combination of:
Arsenal being on a terrible run and the fans being pissed off anyway.
Going 0-1 and then 0-2 down to Spurs.
Theo reportedly (and it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, fans will read it and it will effect how they feel) wanting a salary hike to £80k a week despite not being consistently effective all season.
and
Theo then having an awful first half.
It's not going to make people kindly disposed towards him. I like Theo and I think he can be effective but he hasn't been so far. Not consistently. And while he's young he's not that young and he should have developed more than he has.
It still effects a players confidence and especially when he's being asked to do something that isn't suitable to his game. He's not a winger and that should be the discussion instead of people getting defensive especially when I've heard the same people critcise others for booing during a game. Theo was getting abuse and that won't help his confidence one bit. But forget all that. The discussion should be about Wright's main argument. Playing him up front with RVP.
the "he's not a winger" argument has nothing to do with it. controlling, passing or making a decision is not based on where you play but who you are as a player. i was a big fan of the boy but have lost faith in him due to his inability to do the footballing basics on a consistent basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
What has missing a pass or failing to beat his man having to do with him being a winger ? he was booed because he was poor in the 1st half same as anyother player would be if they were frustating as him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
This him not being a winger talk is getting tedious now.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Dont understand why Wenger doesnt do this. 4-5-1 has killed our game and we need to go back to basics. To 4-4-2, a formation that won us trophies. Theo up top with RVP just behind, a baby version of Henry and Bergkamp and who knows, in time might be as good. Stick Ox on the right, Gervinho on the left until we get someone better and Song and Wilshere in the middle.
Pretty simple
Because walcott is shite no matter where you put him end off, just not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
It is mate and you can look at Vermaelen as a good example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
i wouldn't call him shite and he may prosper more in a duo in the middle but that still doesn't excuse the continual silly mistakes he makes most weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Fine shit thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
vermaelen's poor decision making is evident either at lb or cb - his position doesn't change his make up as a player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
and i'm not sure comparing someone who plays sporadically in a different position with someone who has spent 4/5 years there with marginal improvement is a fair assessment.
Your posting is shit. Sort it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Erosion of confidence. Play Verm there too long and he will suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
Just remember who you're replying toQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If failing to beat players and an inability to cross (both of which are true) were his only problems, then fair enough...the 'not a winger' stuff holds up. But as TT says, not having the balls to carry on towards goal and put a shot away - if you fancy yourself as a striker, you need to at least show some initiative.
I'm not in favour of changing the system for Walcott. Maybe he will play better in a 4-4-2 -ish type formation. He probably will. Maybe we need to change our system anyway. But until he shows better goalscoring instincts and some better basic control and decision-making, there were other players that would benefit from playing in a 4-4-1-1 formation more that I'd give a go first. Arshavin, Rosicky, Benayoun. Maybe even Chamakh.
It sounds harsh but he only netted the first goal due to a miscontrol. It made his mind up for him to go for the chip because he'd over-run it. His initial touch (before being dragged on) was minimal...as it so often is the case with Walcott, he couldn't carry the ball with him. You have no chance as a striker if you can't do simple stuff like that.
His first touch for the 2nd goal looked good to me
He's a pub teamer FFS, but that's not to say pub teamers can't be effective. This is it for Walnut, you've either got that natural poise and nous of a footballer or you haven't, he's been on display long enough now for us to know his limits.
Some games he'll spend in the pocket of his marker, other games he'll find space to punt and run towards goal. It's a lottery with him.
No idea why people are arguing against Ian Wright's opinion on this. I think he knows what he's talking about and notices the character traits of someone that could be a lethal striker. It's worth you guys reading player interviews and how they feel about being played out of position.
How they feel and how effective they'll actually be are two different things. I think this idea he plays on the 'wing' is a bit confusing anyway because he, nor are any of our attackers are fixed to a position, especially as RVP is very much a false 9 at times.
I also feel running from the inside towards the centrebacks on a diagonal is far more likely to allow him the space he needs to run in to then fronting up a centreback and charging at them in the middle, centrebacks just need to stand their ground then. And if he really wants to be played through the middle then he has to take his chances more often, like the one he struck against Vorm in the Swansea game in particular.
If we have the misfortune of RVP being out at all, then it's worth a try because the next alternative is Chakma but I wouldn't want us to lose the effectiveness RVP clearly does give us by putting Theo up there with him, for most of the time.
Coming in from a diagonal wide angle restricts your options. In most cases, you will have to hit it across the keeper and when your right footed you can't bend it around the keeper. Look at Theo's first shot on goal which narrowly missed. Struck well, plenty of power, beats the keeper but it bends just wide. How many times have we seen that happen with Theo? If he's coming in from the left, that shot would tuck in much like Henry's first goal for us this season. Coming in on your good foot at that angle makes a world of difference to a strikers confidence.
Take Ade for example. Terrible first touch, poor left foot, pretty average at finishing, missed a lot of sitters but had some pace, power and when coming in from the right, he'd just bend it around the keeper and hit it low. He was predictable with his finishing. Would never attempt a chip or go near post, just low and bend it around the keeper and that's what he was talking about when he said he discovered the art to finishing. Henry told him to aim for the far post and he does it all the time and the angle usually works in his favour. Knowing that gave him super confidence. If Wenger had tried to get him to always finish on his weaker foot his confidence in front of goal would have been shot to pieces. It's the same for any player coming in on their weaker foot. We've seen Wilshere pass up the chance to shoot with his right and RVP used to do it all the time. If Theo played on the left side, I think his strike rate would improve by far. He'd probably go for more long range belters as well. It makes a difference. Just watch how other players react when on their weaker foot.
We shouldn't change the formation for Theo, but we don't suit this formation, or at least, we're playing players that don't. Ramsey shouldn't be at the hub of our attack. I like what Alan Davis said on the Tuesday club last week and he summed it up perfectly. We should play Rosicky there or forget it.
People keep saying being played out of position doesn't make a difference but play Rosicky on the wings and see how ineffective he'd be. There are numerous examples of this and Rosicky is a versatile midfielder. Theo is a limited striker. That's not always a bad thing. We need that direct approach sometimes. He's terrible on the flanks. Not saying he's be world class there, but could he be any worse than Chamakh or Park? Adebayor was shocking at finishing , had the touch of a rapist and zero intelligence when it came to timing of runs but he was able to score 30 goals for us in one season. I think Theo has a lot more going for him compared to the other strikers I mentioned and I agree with Wright on this one.
didn't bergkamp say that rvp is no number 9 and would do better player deeper?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Despite his antics on Sunday in the 2nd half Theodore still looks like a bench player to me. Saying that he may improve and become more effective for the team once Sir Jack comes back into the team and starting threading those killer balls through to him on a regular basis.
Theodore thrives on excellent service that much is clear.
Can you understand why Bergkamp would make that argument for RVP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
of course everyone can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
but to suggest he would better than the position that has given him 50 goals in 12 months is not the sign of a man who is correct.
Would it be crazy to suggest that team as a whole would probably benefit from him playing in a deeper role? I think Dennis was looking at the team as whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
I think Theo is booed because more than any other Arsenal player (it used to be Arshavin) he epitomises our frustrating team. When he is good he suddenly looks world class but much of the time he looks like he doesn't have a clue what he is supposed to be doing (relatively speaking). We are used to seeing world class. now we are seeing the fine margins between talent and genius.
The high profile move to us and the World Cup debacle killed his rep.
I agree with that Theo on the left thing. Think it would suit him better....but depends on whether Arsene is asking him to get beyond the fullback, in true Arsenal cutback stylee....in which case he'd be more fucked than he currently is trying to beat a defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I think him hanging on the shoulder of the fullback, on his inside is where he's dangerous, as Maccy said. But that also relies heavily on us bing in front in a game, so that the opposition are pushed further forward.
I just think he's a Wrighty type of player, I guess. Instinct player, but he doesn't possess the thing Wright did, which was this niggly, cheeky, spiteful, predatory and angry personality. Theo's too nice most of the time.
not crazy but not a lot of sense either. rvp is displaying the talent that everyone believed he had - the type that you build a team around his strengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
it would be crazy be to suggest that a successful team couldn't be built around what we see now.
i don't want to keep moving away from the theo discussion. the point was that even the best might not always have the best ideas, like wright. i easily concede that these guys know more about actually performing the role on the pitch, but not every student becomes a great teacher.
The difference is, when Theo has scored, it's usually running in from the angle I mention. Also most don't have Theo's pace nor acceleration, I sometimes think even Theo forgets it. The very fact he has that asset means that sure his options might not be plentiful but the one option he has is on more often than not because there isn't as much time for the goalkeeper to get set, to cover the angle. You mention the one he missed but his second goal against Tottenham was very similar to that one missed. However if you maintain it would be better on the left, well then he'd be in the mirrored position and without being 'played up front' (and to be fair in your defence I am particularly thinking of the goal against Shakthar when he has come in on that angle on the left), though that just goes to prove our front three have license to go elsewhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
And I said he's worth trying as the next option 'up front' but not when RVP is already there.
I think that's what created his rep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
What has slowly killed it is years of slow progress or sometimes regression.
He doesn't benefit from GHEL protection. He can have a half decent game and won't get any recognition for it because no one seems to rate him outside Arsenal.
Serves him right anyway, he should have spent his teens spitting at cab drivers and rolling out of nightclubs at 4am. That's where you earn your stripes in this sport if you're English.
The little posh boy fanny, now he's doomed himself.
I bet he uses hankies like all the cool kids do :cool:
I bet he even has a spare fleece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:lol:
Anyway!
I don't care what other people think of him. What I care about is whether he delivers for Arsenal. Sometimes he does, just not often enough.
I bet it's a North Face fleece as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Letters :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Other mountain climbers :bow: