So literally anyone who is qualified would do a better job than Arteta.
How stupid are you?
You need something else to occupy your time.
I don't have the time to spend arguing with you fucking idiots.
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So literally anyone who is qualified would do a better job than Arteta.
How stupid are you?
You need something else to occupy your time.
I don't have the time to spend arguing with you fucking idiots.
Don’t blame me for your limited thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Managers don’t have this magical power you ascribe to them, their ability to effect positive change is limited. Their ability to do damage with their ego however is limitless.
I don’t want any big names polluting things with their egos and galaxy brained tactics. We have the core of a very good team, we need an additional winger, a creative midfielder and a striker and to clear out some of the dead wood.
What we need is someone who works as part of a team and shares duties and responsibilities. No more square pegs in round holes, no more stubbornness. Just keep it simple
I’m sorry you can’t understand that and obsess about names as if it’s a fashion brand.
:gp::gp::gp: Mate, you've probably made the best chain of posts I've seen on GWEB for what feels like a generation and honestly you deserve to be GOATedQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Now I had accused our resident "sad little man" of subconsciously not wanting Arteta out, but the lack of proper responses to your post just reveals that a lot of us fans are guilty of the same offence....and TBH I have to include myself in this group too.
Now, there is something else I need to point out before trying to answer your question, which is that the way you are haranguing HCZ is almost a carbon copy of the way Letters (and other AW-forever members of yesteryears) use to come at anti-AW posters on this site, before he eventually changed his mind (oh and TBF he did the haranguing with a lot more finesse and less grunting than you are showing ATM :lol: ).
Anyway, I remember when having to give a name to Letters (or another AW-forever poster), among the options I mentioned at that time was Jurgen Klopp, and that was before Liverpool got interested (as I had been a fan of Dortmund in the 90s so I had kept following them for a bit). Obviously, he later joined Liverpool and we all know the story from there.
I also noticed Letters response to your "challenge" and I couldn't help but smile, as I do remember Zim replying to Letters in similar fashion (i.e. "naming names is not necessary") and getting beat downs like you are now dishing out :lol:
So back to your question, if we are really serious of getting rid, we should be discussing names by now. I mean look at the Hammers, it's only been about 2 months the fans realized they didn't like Julien's brand of football and straight away we started hearing whispers like Potter and even calls for Moysie's return!!
Imagine, this thread was started over 3 years ago and still we are struggling to name names. TBH its the same for most of goonerdom, we're really not ready to say goodbye to Arteta and I believe there are many reasons for that, though I still think "fear" trumps them all. Or what else could be keeping us this petrified when most of us freely admit we are not even enjoying the football yet we still can't clearly grab our balls and say "sayanora" to Arteta.
Anyway, if you asked this question anywhere fans are assembled, you are likely to get the same responses you are getting on here right now, which is zilch.
So to answer your question directly, I'd love us to at least try and sound out the hottest manager soon to be available, Alonso, and yes I know he is likely going to Madrid next season, but we've not even tried (sounds familiar right).
But yeah, he's likely off to Madrid, so that leaves me with my number one option. It's the same guy I wanted to take over from AW initially, the same guy I wanted to take over from Emery, and the same guy I still believe could take over from Arteta and give us Slot like results (i.e. win titles at the first time of asking, seeing as he has done that a few times already), Carlo Ancelotti.
He's not going to weaken our defence. He's not going to get into stupid spats with young players. He believes in strikers and the need to have good ones at your disposal. He's accustomed to managing young talents and not running them into the ground. He's also not going to want to stay here for an eternity making excuses as he's old enough to be looking for his last hurrah so we can learn to build and demand a proper culture of accountability from our future managers .... frankly IMO there is no coach in the world that has a better CV and is a better fit for us ATM, especially if we are serious about winning the EPL and the CL with this current team . I mean this is a proven winner, a guy that has almost as many top titles (as a player and manager) as we do as a club, and we're a 137 years old apparently!
But we could keep on the way we are going, Chaka Khaning Arteta with "Ain't Nobody Loves Me Better", while other clubs keep winning titles with coaches we never heard of and the occasional Ancelotti type managers.
Past my bedtime now, but hopefully others will point out their preferred options in the morning and this thread can be taken seriously again.
One more stat to leave us with, Arteta was appointed almost 5 years ago and out of the 91 other teams in the league at that time, 89 have changed their managers.
BTW, from that lot it's only Citeh and Brentford that have managers that have served longer than Arteta has with us.
To think that even Citeh fans have started whispering and we still can't name names.
I'm not saying naming names is irrelevant, but I don't think I personally have to know who would be better to think we should move on from Arteta. I'm not 100% sure I do think that although I'm leaning that way. To me the only relevant questions are:Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
1) Do we want to win a PL title or a CL? That's a big "yes" from me.
2) Is that a realistic ambition? Again, I'd say yes - we're one of the biggest clubs in the country and the whole point of the stadium move was to compete with the best in Europe.
3) Is Arteta the man to achieve that ambition?
Well that's a trickier one, isn't it? He's got no real pedigree at this level, he's never landed the biggest prizes for any club - although he's young so maybe that's unfair. And he's certainly taken us a long way. We were a shambles when he took over and now we are credible contenders. 2 seasons ago we fluffed our lines but I can forgive that as a title challenge wasn't expected. Last season we didn't fluff our lines, had we not been up against the utter machine that is City (who, let's face it, are cheats - morally if not legally), we'd have cruised to the title. The question is can Arteta get us over the line. Obviously we don't know for sure, this season is feeling like a slog so far but it actually did for the first half of last season. And we're actually in a pretty similar position to this time last year. Points wise it's exactly the same. We were 5 points off Liverpool this time last year - it's 6 this year and they have a game in hand. But they have harder games and a fixture pile up to come. They're surely going to wobble at some point. Whether we are the ones to capitalise remains to be seen. We'll have to assess things at the end of the season - another opinion I used to be routinely lambasted for in the dying days of the Wenger era, something which I always found irksome as it's so obviously correct that you assess things at the end of a season not in the middle of it! But if we don't win the title this year, if Liverpool are the ones to capitalise to City dropping off, then one would have to question whether Arteta is the man to get us over the finishing line. We've been the only side to push City in the last 2 years, last year we pushed them to the final day. If City drop off and Liverpool nip in then that would be massively frustrating.
The difference with Wenger was his record with us, he had been there and done it and landed us the biggest trophies. I was never "AW forever", but obviously that record made me more (and I'd concede too) patient with him. If someone says "Arteta out" then "well who in?" is the obvious next question. If someone thinks Arteta can't land us the biggest trophies then who can? It is a good question but it's not one I think someone has to have an answer for to hold the "Arteta out" opinion. With Wenger people were saying stupid things like "anyone would do better". It was obvious bollocks - although I think I was too patient with Wenger, I will never concede he was as bad as some of the idiots on here were claiming. His last season was his worst, we finished 6th. If that's the worst you do in 20 years then you can't be that bad. Emery showed that "anyone would be better" is bollocks. And that's another thing - Emery is clearly a good manager but for whatever reason it didn't work out with him at Arsenal. Maybe he wasn't given enough time, but it didn't seem to be a good fit.
TL;DR - I don't think having no ready made answer to "who in?" invalidates an "Arteta out" opinion. I am personally leaning towards Arteta out but obviously we'll have to see how this season pans out. And I continue to not really understand HCZ's weirdly personal reasons for wanting him out.
I often feel like I’m made to feel responsible for other people’s lack of basic comprehension. I’m not a teacher, what you fail to grasp is not on me.
Basically if I liked Arteta on a personal level, I’d be more inclined to give him leeway….before the last few years I arguably gave Wenger more leeway than he deserved.
Two years ago I said what I said about Arteta under the clearly wrong assumption that it was obvious. That somehow you didn’t need to be bombastic like Mourinho for people to know that you’re a cunt. But apparently people do need to be led by the nose.
Now the argument is, does it matter if he’s a cunt? Well no if he’s winning things. But if he’s not, I’m more inclined to find those thinks I dislike about him even more grating
Definitely don’t think names are needed if you are of the opinion that we need a change of coach. The people in charge take home millions to make these decisions.
It’s like saying we need to sign players, ok then, who? Plenty of players settle quickly and start delivering, sometimes players we’ve never heard of or players that we don’t rate. It’s doing nothing that will ultimately yield the same outcomes over and over.
Is there an echo in here? You don't know him on a personal level.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I mean, firstly he isn't one. That's just some weird Frank Grimes think you have against him because he folded his arms on a reality TV show or some nonsense like that.Quote:
Now the argument is, does it matter if he’s a cunt?
We are half way through the season. I wouldn't put any money on us landing a major trophy this year but half way through a season which has been very similar to the first half of last season is not a sensible point to judge a season. I'm leaning towards Arteta out on the basis that I'm not convinced he'll land us a PL or CL, but obviously May is the time to reassess that.Quote:
Well no if he’s winning things. But if he’s not
I don't know how I'll feel if we fall short again, but it's moot anyway as I don't think he's going anywhere unless we properly crash and burn.
Don’t be obtuse you know full well what I mean. Personal level as in the person’s personality. If you don’t understand how someone betrays their character and personality in what they say and how they say it…I don’t know frankly how you’ve got through life. Do you think if someone smiles that always means they are happy?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I wouldn’t mind if you just said “I don’t see what you’re seeing” or even “I don’t agree”.
Also there’s loads of strawmanning going on, the reason I don’t like him is because he’s a passive aggressive arrogant prick with no personality. Not because he folds his arms and can’t maintain eye contact….those were the physical cues I used as examples to suggest he wasn’t a people person (which I honestly think you need to be in that job) and perhaps evidence of him being on the autistic spectrum.
Honestly I’ve got to the age of 41, and I didn’t think it would need explaining that someone doesn’t need to be a scenery chewing ranter for someone to see there’s something not right about someone. Maybe if I was talking about Guardiola who has a lot of the same negative attributes in terms of being passive aggressive you’d have less trouble accepting it
Yes none of us (I assume) are experts in football across Europe and beyond to single out the best new manager (though I do agree with HCZ that we should revert to the 'head coach' model - making Arteta full manager was a big mistake).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I actually think Amorim will come good in the end at Man Ure and we need to be looking at people like that.
Letters is right, Arteta has done a lot of good things in terms of rebuilding trust and building a team cohesion, but maybe that's all he has for us and to actually be at the top, rather than also-rans, it’s now maybe someone else's job to add to that work
The trouble with Arteta is it's not a case of him gaining more experience, he's just so stubborn and cautious that I’m not sure that will ever change, at least not as long as he's here - ironically I could see him going elsewhere and using that shift to move himself on, but it’s happening too slowly here, if at all – he’s wedded to control and defensive players over attack and quick transition and it's making us turkeys.
I really think top four (and yes that is very important) is in real danger now, with Newcastle, Citeh, Forest and Chelsea at the very least genuine challengers to unseat us – losing CL would be a disaster, players like Saliba might go elsewhere and it would be harder to recruit, not to mention the loss of income.
For that reason, those who want Arteta to go should want us to do really badly from here on, as if we lose top four then the Kroenkes will take a long hard look at Arteta.
I don’t really want that bad run to happen though, because I’m an Arsenal fan and don’t want to see us lose game after game, but there’s a real danger of it now.
I think we’re about to hit a real dip but let’s see, Arsenal have pulled it out of the bag before, but some attacking recruits and a change of mindset from Arteta are crucial – the first has to be a real possibility, the second I fear not so much…