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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
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:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
So that same old ageing defence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Do we even have a single Wenger in guy on here now? :lol:
Even the likes of Ollie and NQ have turned.
Obviously don't want to see sheer abuse like at the train station or confronting him on the pitch, but I'd fully support seeing more polite and respectful banners (like at WBA) calling on him to step down .... e.g. "Thank's for the memories Arsene but it's time to step aside"
No, but we'll be in the same basic place. I don't think we'll have significantly improved or regressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But with less funds if we try to spend our way out of trouble under Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
That depends really...do you have an issue with the players brought in by Wenger in the summer?, the issue was the quantity not the quality.
My only issue with Wenger spending money is bringing in another attacking midfielder to add to the ridiculous number we already have, other than that I don't mind him buying players in the hope that the squad will be decent for whoever replaces Wenger and that person will significantly improve that players on pitch performances
Debuchy and Sanchez are good purchases but I can't be so sure about the others.
Fair enough
Chambers concerns me and if Wenger had strengthened the squad like he should have done, the guy would have been dropped by now (still only young, but the jury is out on him I agree)
Welbeck never going to be prolific, but works hard generally and a solid if not spectacular squad player, arguably also played too much as well.
Ospina - I really rate this guy, I'm hoping he gets a run in the team to show his quality because Szczesny is an arrogant toerag whose judgement stinks
Ospina has been injured since he got here. Wenger had him diving under lorries on the M1 while trying not to spill a plate of broccoli.
You can accuse Wenger of many things but over-spending isn't one of them (except on wages).Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He's always been very aware of our financial situation and never put us in financial difficulties in the interests of short term.
He is, in some ways, a safe pair of hands. But it's pretty clear we won't make any real progress with him in charge.
:doh: except on wages!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I don't think Wenger will purposely overspend but there will be pressure on him to spend big this winter and summer.
Yes. Wenger famously listens to advise and caves in to pressure from fans and the media.
Still so concerned with defending Wenger. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I'm saying I'm against that call for him to spend more because it won't solve our problems. If he decides to stick his fingers up to the fans and media this winter and summer then you won't hear any complaints from me. We'd be wasting money.
How is me saying he never listens to advice or caves in to pressure defending Wenger?
:)
Because that's all you seem to be concerned with. Oversensitive to any criticism and jumped in this thread thinking this is more knee jerk reaction stuff when it's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You're a guy that often worries about life without Wenger and states the financial advantage other clubs have or how managerial changes can effect a club.....dig a little deeper and try to figure out my concern.
That's not what I said actually. I said the fact that people only post in here when we lose makes it look kneejerk although I also said there are obviously long standing reasons for people wanting Wenger to go. I've also repeatedly said we do need to move on from Wenger, I just don't want us to panic and sack him with no plan for what we do next. And yes, I'll defend Wenger when people start overly insulting him or criticizing every single thing he does as though literally nothing he does makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I've seen people say that Chelsea and City's infinite money cheat is an 'excuse'. Clearly it isn't. The top two clubs right now are City and Chelsea, miles clear of anyone else. Liverpool managed to muscle in on the party last year in a season when they had no European football and had one player on insane form, even then they fell short in the end. Some on here were hailing Rodgers a genius but they're nowhere near repeating it. The only person who has managed to stop one of the two billionaire-fueled clubs winning the title in the last 10 years is Ferguson who, in my view, is the GOAT in terms of management. That last season he was there...there's just no way they should have won the title with their squad vs City's or Chelsea's yet they won it at a canter. I don't care who our manager is, that problem is always going to be there unless the footballing authorities bother to impose financial fair play regulations that have any bite, which will never happen. All that said, we should be closer to those two with our resources and that is where Wenger is failing.
As for how managerial changes have affected other clubs, Moyes was a disaster for Utd, Van Gaal has had to go nuts in the transfer market to get them back in contention, even then they have no serious chance of the title this year. Spurs have repeatedly got on the managerial merry-go-round trying to break into the top 4 and failed to do so with any consistency. A change of management - especially when a manager has been with a club for so long and is so involved in every aspect of the club - needs to be carefully planned.
We were actually on a pretty good run before the Southampton game. Southampton have lost to City and Utd at home but no-one else, Chelsea only drew there. Losing there is not a disaster although from what I heard we were awful, which is more of a concern. But overall in our last ten games in all competitions our results have been pretty good: W7 D1 L2 (Chelsea's last 10, for comparison, are: W6 D2 L2). This season has been a bit of a fiasco but there have been some signs of improvement of late, if only in terms of results which, ultimately, are what matter. I see no reason to panic and sack Wenger right this second with no plan as to what to do next.
We've had years of this mediocrity now, I don't think the criticism is knee jerk any more. I am still happy to see us win, but that doesn't change my overall opinion that we are stagnating under Wenger. He has to go.
I'm not sure how consistently being in the top 4 could be considered mediocre, it's the stagnation and Groundhog Day we need to get out of though.
For a club of Arsenal's size and resources, I'd call that mediocre. We are stagnating in mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We have the 4th biggest resources. I'd call it par.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Not sure what that rant is about but I get the feeling you're not paying attention to what I'm saying at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
How are you under the impression that I'm suggesting we sack Wenger with no plan?
It's all over anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6XVP51CYAEgcgn.jpg
You started this exchange by completely twisting something I said. And it wasn't a rant, this is Arsenal Debate, it was part of a debate I thought we were having.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'm not.Quote:
How are you under the impression that I'm suggesting we sack Wenger with no plan?
We generate the 2nd most revenue from day to day matches. Charge no.1 in ticket prices in Britain and possibly no.2 in the world and have a manager whose salary can be seen in my signature (:lol:). Our wage bill is currently more than Chelsea and we have outspent City and Chelsea this window. On top of that, we have had the 'history of a big club' alongside Utd and Liverpool, which City and Chelsea had to catch up to. We also had 'continuity' with the same manager for nearly two decades... thats got to add up to something more than just coming 4th.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
OK, but that's not relevant to what I said. It is relevant, I guess, in terms of expectations. If you're paying £60+ to get into the stadium, you arguably have a right to expect more than the crap we're serving up right now. But it doesn't matter where the money comes from, the fact is in terms of total income we have the 4th highest resources so in a sport where success and resources are so highly correlated 4th is about par for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
We don't have a billionaire backing us (well, we do actually, but he's not backing us! Not financially anyway). In fact that's part of the reason why we have such high ticket prices. We do charge too much, but how else can we even hope to compete when 2 other clubs can do what they like in the transfer market. They don't have to rely on income from anywhere, they have multi-billionaire owners who are clearly hell bent on spending till they achieve success. Chelsea showed that buying success was possible, City showed you can do it with any club if you pump in enough money for long enough. We may have outspent them in one window but the way they've thrown money around in a sustained way, we could never have competed with that. It's only in the last year when the new financial deals were in place that we could sign players like Ozil (who, whatever you think about him, is a different class of player to those we signed of late before that) and Sanchez.
In terms of our wage bill, one thing you need to consider is how the clubs I'm talking about cook the books. Chelsea have a ridiculous number of players on their books who they then loan out to clubs who aren't their rivals, I guess those other clubs then pay their wages. City have gone one better and their owners have bought a whole different club where they can stockpile players. Moan about Wenger all you like, and we certainly have some cause to, but it's incredibly difficult to compete with clubs who can do these sorts of things.
History helps, to an extent, but when City were offering silly wages and signing on fees they were able to sign players we couldn't compete for despite our higher prestige as a club. Continuity helps too but, again, when other clubs can keep on buying players of the quality they've been able to it gets to the point where our squad just isn't good enough to compete and while we've discussed Wenger's frugality there's no way we could have competed with Chelsea or City's spending without getting into serious financial trouble.
My problems with Wenger right now are the awful football, the perennial injury problems which he surely must see is killing us every year but seems unable to do anything about and the fact that our team right now is far less than the sum of its parts. We DO have plenty of quality players and yet we're looking like a very ordinary side so far this season. I don't care that City and Chelsea are ahead of us, although we should be closer to them, but sides like Southampton, Spurs and West Ham shouldn't be anywhere near us. I don't mind us finishing 4th, but I do mind us limping in there and scraping past those sides when with our resources we should be miles ahead of them.
Would you have considered walking away if you hadn’t won the FA Cup last year?’
Wenger rebuked the question out of hand, and said it didn’t even cross his mind:
To walk where? No. I have just won my 600th game out of 1,000. That means I have won 60 per cent of the games and, after 18 years, it would not be serious to walk away for losing one game. I do my job as well as I can and I respect my contracts.
We didn’t win a trophy for years and of course people want that. As well, 2-0 down after 10 minutes and they nearly scored the third. When you know football, normally that means you have very little chance to win so the fact we could turn it around and win was a fantastic relief.”
He just doesnt get it does he? its not "1 game" you moron its 7-8 years of the same mistakes and nelgligence that has meant your time is up.
Thing is your not going to get an idea of what Wenger thinks from the media, if you admit openly your only still here because you ended your trophy draught then you invite all kinds of pressure and questions on yourself.
I wish people would stop paying so much attention to what l'ouisseau says in press conferences etc, unless you're a shameless media whore like Mourinho the whole thing is so PR managed that there is never likely to be any useful information.
Personally I think with the way things are now, Wenger would have walked if not then certainly by now
Unbelievable that the wrinkly old Faragehating cunt was smoking in the showers with Szczesny. Club is going up in flames. Thank you John Cross for bringing this to our attention.
The problem with Wenger is he buys who he likes and not what the squad/team needs. The fact we went into the season with 5 senior first team defenders says it all. He still prioritises "Youth" development over improving the first team with external solutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I would honestly rather Wenger leave the squad as it is so the new guy can come in and shape the squad the way he wants to.
We don't need drastic investment, a couple of high class signings and we could be challenging Chelsea and City IMO.
Some say we are 2% away from dominationQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
:run:
:D 1%Quote:
Originally Posted by Injury Time
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rSMLjVqFnt...r_1366817a.jpg
Does my finger smell little bit of itchy bum?Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
It is possible.
He'd best steer clear of the thumb as that has been firmly stuck up his hole all season.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Well to be honest as Long as its not his "come to bed" beckon to Sonia TatarQuote:
Originally Posted by LDG
He didn't fuck anything up today, well done arsene.
IN!
Definitely.
Until next week...
Still a Wenger out but if he shows the self awareness to address our problems this January (sign a top quality DM and CB) and that results in a new found defensive resilience then I may just be persuaded to change my mind.
Last 15 games in all competitions:
W12 D1 L2
Hmm. This is the frustrating thing about the whole situation with Wenger. There are times when we do look like a properly good side, one that could challenge the money cheats. Other times we look hopeless.
Retain the cup and finish top 4 and I'll give him another year.
Otherwise, Wenger out.