The next manager..

There's no doubt in my mind that we have hundreds of millions available for transfers if it's needed. All the same, I'm not sure how much I'd give the new guy in their first window? Enough to bring in a couple of trusted faces, certainly - players who can help transmit their ideas quickly to the rest of the squad - and that's on top of whatever Mislintat comes up with. But before I send them off with the best part of a quarter of a billion I'd kind of like to see what ideas they have and what they can coach into the current crop of players.

Is that wrong? To expect the new first team coach to actually do some coaching?

What I would invest in heavily is bolstering Mislintat's operation. Who's the guy at Monaco who keeps unearthing all these gems? Who's the guy at Atletico who keeps coming up with all these world class strikers and goalkeepers? Chuck money at these guys to come and work for us and then laugh at the rest of the world who have to spend 50m+ every time they want a Kyle Walker...

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We don't know any of that, it's all media speculation. Why would any of the parties involved talk to the media? Or confirm any of these "facts"?

The journos don't give a shit what they write provided they get clicks, and they never seem to get punished when they are found out. People keep on clicking and their "facts" keep on rolling out.

Wenger was on 10mill a year because he's been at the club for 22 years. That's pay hike after pay hike after pay hike. There was nothing to say we were going to pay the new guy the same money. Why would we? We aren't looking for one guy to run the whole show any more, we're looking for the opposite. If Allegri really did want 200 mill for transfers then maybe we said, forget it, transfers will be taken care of by somebody else. Maybe he didn't like that? I'm speculating just as much as the media. I don't know, they don't know.

If Arteta is coming to be a coach (rather than a general manager), which is highly likely, no reason to pay him big bucks because he'll have a third of the job description Wenger had. And if we want the role spread around, no reason to hire somebody who wants full control. Maybe this is why we aren't after a big, experienced name.

Looking at Arsenal's track record it's easy to say we are going cheap. But recent signings suggest otherwise. Aubameyang is supposedly the second highest paid player in the league (along with bonuses), and we have another 50 mill striker beside him. We're paying Ozil a fortune too. The money is being spent, but it is being spent in other areas. Good areas. Players on the pitch.

I'm not so keen to simply assume Arteta has been picked because he's cheap. It could still be the case, but we know as much of the truth as the media - which is none of it, at this stage.

Anyway, Arteta hasn't said yes yet. I'm sure he doesn't want to be Moyes v2. He's got plenty to think about before accepting.

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Well yes of course, you are right, but then, where is the fun in that? :lol:

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Originally Posted by Özim

Always thought as a big club we'd try and get someone top notch, seems we might not be thinking that way, for me though it would be Vieira over Arteta, he'd have instant respect for a start, might not work out but for me he'd be the preferred option (plus he's one of Arsenal greatest players - Real did it with Zidane), doing a decent job in the US as well even though that isn't a top league.

Arteta has never managed at all and I haven't personally seen any obvious qualities that might make him a good manager, never ever saw any kind of ruthlessness in him either, as Cripps said he was pretty average overall for us, would be a very odd choice really.

Guardiola seems good friends with Arteta (probably due to being Spanish) that probably helped him decide to have him as number 2, like I said Guardiola has won whoever his number 2 was, so it's not like they have a part in his successes. As I said before Mclaren, Queiroz were supposedly top notch number 2s, as managers however they were bang average, sometimes think managers talk up their impact so they get some credit, truth is if you look at top managers they succeed regardless of their assistants.

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See, this echoes my issues with Arteta being appointed.

It's all speculation and here say 'Pochetino said he is good, Pep rates him highly' 'Le grove wrote some stuff about him' none of it is based on any fact that can actually be backed up.

Regardless of our supposed new management structure, we still need an experienced head to come in and sort these lads out. Someone who can drill a defence and utilise two top strikers from an organised midfield.

I'm not saying that Arteta is a bad choice as, like everyone else, I have no idea how good/bad he is. But I don't think taking a risk is neccessarily the right thing to do at this point.

I will give him my support if he is appointed, as much as I can, however, I won't also start trying to see him as a hidden gem that hasn't been unearthed yet - because there is no proof of that.

Before anyone goes medieval on my ass, I am not making a comparison between them as players or their achievements as players.

For those doubting the rationale of appointing Arteta in his first major managerial role, isn’t that what Real Madrid did with Zidane?

He was coach of their B team pior but yeah it's essentially the same.

Slight difference in quality Arteta would be working with compared to Zidane though..:lol:

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Originally Posted by Özim

Always thought as a big club we'd try and get someone top notch, seems we might not be thinking that way, for me though it would be Vieira over Arteta, he'd have instant respect for a start, might not work out but for me he'd be the preferred option (plus he's one of Arsenal greatest players - Real did it with Zidane), doing a decent job in the US as well even though that isn't a top league.

Arteta has never managed at all and I haven't personally seen any obvious qualities that might make him a good manager, never ever saw any kind of ruthlessness in him either, as Cripps said he was pretty average overall for us, would be a very odd choice really.

Guardiola seems good friends with Arteta (probably due to being Spanish) that probably helped him decide to have him as number 2, like I said Guardiola has won whoever his number 2 was, so it's not like they have a part in his successes. As I said before Mclaren, Queiroz were supposedly top notch number 2s, as managers however they were bang average, sometimes think managers talk up their impact so they get some credit, truth is if you look at top managers they succeed regardless of their assistants.

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I also question whether Arteta will sort this group of players out. If Wilshere or Ramsey didn't obey his orders would Arteta really take them to the cleaners? I have my doubts.

On the other hand reports suggest he's a bit of a prick.

We need someone ruthless with authority but compassion at the same time.

This is such a big risk it's almost negligence of duties from Gazidis.

He wants the plaudits to uncover the next Pep but it's so so risky. At least Zidane and Pep were managing B teams in a professional league. This guy holds a clipboard :unsure:

P.s. Barca and Madrid have the best squads in the world. We on the other hand need major surgery. Which makes it even more mind boggling:unsure:

Can't really compare it Madrid or Barca. Ridiculous teams for both and they promoted from within and pick managers groomed for the role.

This unprecedented in football. The only comparison I can see is in what Stan did with the LA Rams in American Football. The process has been very similar. Not long after rewarding the LA Rams coach a new contract, Stan sacked their head coach after a poor start to the season. Very similar to Wenger's dismal. The Rams appointmenter the youngest coach in the NFL's history I think. Not sure how Stan went about the selection process but it couldn't have been random. The Rams managed to finish the season as Division Champions or whatever those crazy Yanks do for their competitions. The decision paid off. A lot of writers predicted Stan may choose the same route for Arsenal. We'll see what happens. Unprecedented territory but we'll see what happens. I don't think this is Gazidis making the decision. I think this is the direction Stan wants to go in. But I also doubt Sven and Raul would stand back and not have their say if they thought the appointment was wrong. Same goes for Josh Kroenke. There has to be some research and a consensus behind this decision.

Cripps, I think you are making the understandable mistake of thinking that the next manager is going to be the guy responsible for sorting out the mess. He is likely going to be a part of a team of people, most of whom are now in place sorting it out.

Players won’t just be answerable to the next manager, who will likely be concentrating on coaching and strategy, they’ll be answerable to the people in the new structure who are to date showing competence and proving to be pretty fucking ruthless.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

He was coach of their B team pior but yeah it's essentially the same.

Slight difference in quality Arteta would be working with compared to Zidane though..:lol:

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Arteta OUT <_<

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Originally Posted by Mikel’s Magic Hat

Cripps, I think you are making the understandable mistake of thinking that the next manager is going to be the guy responsible for sorting out the mess. He is likely going to be a part of a team of people, most of whom are now in place sorting it out.

Players won’t just be answerable to the next manager, who will likely be concentrating on coaching and strategy, they’ll be answerable to the people in the new structure who are to date showing competence and proving to be pretty fucking ruthless.

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A new era of accountability. I like it.

If it goes tits up we move on, like every other club in the world. Forget about dynasties for the time being.

@PnG
I think the remit is to go young like LA Rams but in terms of going for Arteta specifically it seems Gazidis is really pushing it. Gazidis seems to see something in Arteta that makes him think he can be our Pep/Zidane.

@Mikel
Regardless of whether it's an individual or part of a team, he'll still be most important person in terms of managing the club and the guy responsible for taking us to the top.

The ultra young, left wing appointment should have been someone like Nagelsmann. That should be the comparison to the LA Rams head coach. Not a guy with 0 experience.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

@PnG
I think the remit is to go young like LA Rams but in terms of going for Arteta specifically it seems Gazidis is really pushing it. Gazidis seems to see something in Arteta that makes him think he can be our Pep/Zidane.

@Mikel
Regardless of whether it's an individual or part of a team, he'll still be most important person in terms of managing the club and the guy responsible for taking us to the top.

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Where are you getting this information about Gazidis pushing for the move?

Considering we have appointed two credible footballing guys in Sven and Raul, do you not think they are also backing Gazidis with this decision?

Why would Gazidis stick his neck on the line for Arteta if he doesn't have everyone's backing? Why risk it?

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

Where are you getting this information about Gazidis pushing for the move?

Considering we have appointed two credible footballing guys in Sven and Raul, do you not think they are also backing Gazidis with this decision?

Why would Gazidis stick his neck on the line for Arteta if he doesn't have everyone's backing? Why risk it?

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Maybe he's promised Ivan the secret of growing hair like his.

https://twitter.com/JamesOlley/statu...120510976?s=19

There's been a few articles on it, it's common knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

https://twitter.com/JamesOlley/statu...120510976?s=19

There's been a few articles on it, it's common knowledge.

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Nothing at all about Arteta's hair in that article.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

https://twitter.com/JamesOlley/statu...120510976?s=19

There's been a few articles on it, it's common knowledge.

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Gazidis is Cheif Executive so of course it's going to fall on him to make the enquires about Arteta. But you make it sound as if he's the lone wolf leading the charge for him. The writer of the article is making an educated guess based off Gazidis's position at the club. It's nothing solid.

There has to be some sort of consensus for the club to take this sort of risk.

I also totally forgot that Arteta is from Barca and the school of Cryuff. A lot of positive background reports on Arteta. Worth reading them. A lot of hype around him and we may have just been the last to know. Regardless, nothing confirmed yet.

I’m loving finally having something Arsenal related to talk about.

Being hopeful for the future, challenging though it may be, is also a refreshing change.

@PnG: Well the majority of the people in the know suggest so, so I'll take their word for it :shrug:

I quite like the Barca model where there's a team of specialists and a head coach comes in, and if he doesn't do well, gets the chop. But the head coaches should be actual managers, not just any random Tommy from the backroom staff :shrug:

The Head Coach definitely shouldn’t be a puppet. The assistants neither.

We are so used to puppetry at this Club, we are rightly as fans struggling to come to terms with how things may be done in this new era.

I don’t think Arteta will be anyone’s puppet. Far too many people in the game who’s opinions matter seem to think too highly of him for that.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

@PnG: Well the majority of the people in the know suggest so, so I'll take their word for it :shrug:

I quite like the Barca model where there's a team of specialists and a head coach comes in, and if he doesn't do well, gets the chop. But the head coaches should be actual managers, not just any random Tommy from the backroom staff :shrug:

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But I'm asking you if you think it's Gazidis pushing for this move on his own. Gazidis is the figure head behind all club appointments of course. It's an educated guess from the press. But logically, do you think we're in a situation where Gazidis is pushing for Arteta with nobody else at the club in favour..except Kroenke?

If reports are to go by Sanllehi wants Enrique, Sven wants Nagelsmann and Gazidis wants Arteta. The first 2 are ruled out but Sanllehi still isn't keen on Arteta.

Yes I think Gazidis is hell bent on Arteta, for some reason he has been since day 1. I think he's managed to convince Josh due to the LA Rams thing and now Arteta is pretty much wrapped up.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

If reports are to go by Sanllehi wants Enrique, Sven wants Nagelsmann and Gazidis wants Arteta. The first 2 are ruled out but Sanllehi still isn't keen on Arteta.

Yes I think Gazidis is hell bent on Arteta, for some reason he has been since day 1. I think he's managed to convince Josh due to the LA Rams thing and now Arteta is pretty much wrapped up.

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I guessing this is all coming from the press right? Do the math and work out the educated guesses from the press. You don't see the link between the candidates and their respective backers?

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Originally Posted by Cripps

If reports are to go by Sanllehi wants Enrique, Sven wants Nagelsmann and Gazidis wants Arteta. The first 2 are ruled out but Sanllehi still isn't keen on Arteta.

Yes I think Gazidis is hell bent on Arteta, for some reason he has been since day 1. I think he's managed to convince Josh due to the LA Rams thing and now Arteta is pretty much wrapped up.

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Underwhelmed by all 3 of them.

Meanwhile the guy too ugly for Arsenal is helping himself to another honour with a club that has a fraction of our budget.

Sky Sports are reporting that talks with Arteta will get underway tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Sky Sports are reporting that talks with Arteta will get underway tomorrow.

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"Mikel, we need a new kit man for when Ancelotti starts - decent salary and all the hair gel you could ever want - interested?"

Arteta must be rubbing his hands together at the chance of getting a job at a top club as his first job in management based on a couple of his friends recommending him and Gazidis being on friendly terms with him.

I could understand it more if it was someone like Vieira, a guy who was a top player for us, but for a player of the calibre of Arteta to then get the job when he's never managed would really only happen at a club like Arsenal.

I really don't care what calibre of player they were for us, a lot of great managers haven't been outstanding players.
I wouldn't want either, I'd rather have somewhere who has been there and done it at a top club.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I really don't care what calibre of player they were for us, a lot of great managers haven't been outstanding players.
I wouldn't want either, I'd rather have somewhere who has been there and done it at a top club.

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How many managers who were not particularly good players get their 1st job with no management experience at a top club though, the reality is Arteta wasn't even Arsenal through and through, he was a panic buy who never partcularly established himself with us, his best days seemed to be with Everton. I know he was captain at one point, but this was at a time we weren't very good and he never really inspired the team to better things.

I'd understand it if he'd proved himself somewhere else, but getting the job with no experience with us is odd.

Yeah I agree with that, or even someone like Jardim who has shown some talent at management level at least.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Meanwhile the guy too ugly for Arsenal is helping himself to another honour with a club that has a fraction of our budget.

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Amazing manager to be honest, tactically brilliant, has an eye for a top player, instill real discipline and belief in his teams and wins stuff. Has his detractors but he's proven.

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Originally Posted by Özim

How many managers who were not particularly good players get their 1st job with no management experience at a top club though

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Not many, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. His quality as a player has no bearing on his potential quality as a manager.

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I'd understand it if he'd proved himself somewhere else, but getting the job with no experience with us is odd.

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Agreed, although that would apply to him or Vieira - the latter would have a few more good will points because he was a proper Arsenal legend, doesn't mean he'd do any better.

As others have said it seems that the new manager will have a far less far-reaching role than Wenger ended up having which can only be a good thing, especially for someone new to management.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Not many, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. His quality as a player has no bearing on his potential quality as a manager.



Agreed, although that would apply to him or Vieira - the latter would have a few more good will points because he was a proper Arsenal legend, doesn't mean he'd do any better.

As others have said it seems that the new manager will have a far less far-reaching role than Wenger ended up having which can only be a good thing, especially for someone new to management.

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Vieira at least is managing and is doing a good job albeit in the MLS, but at least he has some experience, plus he the fact he's a legend will give him instant respect, from players and fans. Arteta not so much, nothing about him stands out, doesn't stand out as a leader, isn't a great, has no experience, not exactly a glittering cv, given the next man replaces Wenger a man in charge for 22 years it seems even stranger we'd be looking at him.

I agree it would be a strange appointment, I wouldn't regard Vieira's as any less strange although I agree some would because of his playing days with us.
I never understand why some people think that great player for us = great manager for us. Rarely follows.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I agree it would be a strange appointment, I wouldn't regard Vieira's as any less strange although I agree some would because of his playing days with us.
I never understand why some people think that great player for us = great manager for us. Rarely follows.

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If we are going down the cheap route though why not Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche surely they would make more sense than Arteta. If it was Simeone or Allegri competing for the job then that's different. But at least Howe and Dyche have managed and done a good job on minimal resources.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Vieira at least is managing and is doing a good job albeit in the MLS, but at least he has some experience, plus he the fact he's a legend will give him instant respect, from players and fans. Arteta not so much, nothing about him stands out, doesn't stand out as a leader, isn't a great, has no experience, not exactly a glittering cv, given the next man replaces Wenger a man in charge for 22 years it seems even stranger we'd be looking at him.

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Strange to us. Yes.

But they have more information than we do and in Gazidis’s case, his job could be on the line here. It looks as if they are carrying out their due diligence here and their moves over the past year have been sound. Therefore I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt regardless of who they appoint. Well within reason.

Bear in mind, we are appointing a Coach type Manager that will be easy to get rid of if it looks like not working out.

Actually wouldnt mind Dyche, he is a very good coach and has Burnley in Europe!

But he wont ever be considered by the board.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I agree it would be a strange appointment, I wouldn't regard Vieira's as any less strange although I agree some would because of his playing days with us.
I never understand why some people think that great player for us = great manager for us. Rarely follows.

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Clearly Tony Adams should be manager.