Wenger Referendum: Yes Or No

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Originally Posted by Letters

Last 15 games in all competitions:

W12 D1 L2

Hmm. This is the frustrating thing about the whole situation with Wenger. There are times when we do look like a properly good side, one that could challenge the money cheats. Other times we look hopeless.

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L2 :fury:

Wenger should be judged on a results only basis. As things stand we are still in the mix for top 4 and in the FA Cup and CL. I think the bare minimum should be Top 4 finish, preferably 3rd and strong runs in both Cups, basically we should be making the FA Cup final, irrespective of whether we draw Liverpool or United assuming we all progress from the 5th round.

If we achieve top 4 and respectable exits/losses in both of those cups then Wenger should be given the summer to get the squad right and get the players in shape for the upcoming season.

Despite our excellent recent form, to date this season has been write off and we have not consistently performed to the standard required.

Wenger should be judged on the whole season and not on a short period where he fixes up the mess that he created in the first place ;)

The problem with our manager is that he has manage to dampen expectations to the point where getting within wind of 4th looks now like a praiseworthy achievement.
Look where we are in reality. 5th behind a worm riddled team like United, parallel with a kneecapped and neutered Southampton and 2 points ahead of the Crappy Totts.

We are playing well since Xmas but we are far from being in a happy place.
This season we should end up comfortably 3rd otherwise no progress has been made. The FA cup has again been literally thrown in our laps. But before we get the "Wenger knows" bunting out lets get past Monaco and push whoever we get in the QFs all the way. Its bound to be any 1 of Bayern, Barca PSG or either Madrid.

At the moment as should be expected the Wenger out fervour has died down as results are going for us, whether he can achieve something meaningful in the time he has left is debatable but certainly the 2-0 win over City suggests he isn't quite as dead in the water as was once thought.
Am I disappointed with how the season has gone in its entirety? For sure. I can't even think about the United game without getting angry.
On the other hand if you ask me if I think our squad is better than at any time since 2011 and I was encouraged I would also say yes.

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I can't even think about the United game without getting angry.

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And Southampton. If there were two games we didn't want to fuck up...

Southampton result doesn't even register on the same scale as United, that was a meltdown that made Andy Murrays hissy fit yesterday pale into comparison.
We were genuinely shit on new years day and Southampton could have scored more, against United we dominated from kick off to full time, yet we turned into dunked rich tea biscuits when it came to keeping our nerve and composure.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And Southampton. If there were two games we didn't want to fuck up...

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And that is why, despite our current form, I believe we need a change of Manager.

Southampton was an uneventful game in which we gave two dreadful goals away. They are a solid defensive team though and earned their result.

At Stoke we were caught cold by a team who took full advantage of an atrocious selection by WUMger. The damage was done before the match started. And then again in the first thirty seconds.

Swansea was an even game, where we typically failed to take our chances and got punished in the end when they took theirs.

The Spurs and United games were the worst though. We played against a Spurs side devoid of any ideas and didn't seem to have any motivation to beat a team that were there to be beaten. Against United, well, just how the fuck did we manage that?

And do not forget as well Anderlecht.

Wait, is this the Wenger-bashing thread?

What a stupid old, self-harming, stubborn old fuck.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

The problem with our manager is that he has manage to dampen expectations to the point where getting within wind of 4th looks now like a praiseworthy achievement.
Look where we are in reality. 5th behind a worm riddled team like United, parallel with a kneecapped and neutered Southampton and 2 points ahead of the Crappy Totts.

We are playing well since Xmas but we are far from being in a happy place.
This season we should end up comfortably 3rd otherwise no progress has been made. The FA cup has again been literally thrown in our laps. But before we get the "Wenger knows" bunting out lets get past Monaco and push whoever we get in the QFs all the way. Its bound to be any 1 of Bayern, Barca PSG or either Madrid.

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:gp:

Still plenty left to play for and top 4 is not a gimme yet.

If it weren't for injuries to Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil and Arteta, I doubt we'd have seen Cazorla, Rosicky and Coquelin getting much game time and they've really helped pull us through along with Sanchez whose had an exceptional season. We've stumbled upon a winning combination and had a one player really carry us through and that doesn't fill me with much confidence for the future.

I've always thought Santi's best position was in the middle and shuffling him out wide just dampens his impact. Rosicky has always been that guy that gets the team really going when we're struggling. I don't know why it's taken injuries to everyone to get him more involved and that applies to Coquelin as well. My position on Wenger hasn't changed. I've seen seasons like this before and the only question in my mind is how Wenger will leave and not when.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And that is why, despite our current form, I believe we need a change of Manager.

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And this is also why I'm not spending any of my money to go and watch this team.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And that is why, despite our current form, I believe we need a change of Manager.

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And again.

Fuck the record over the last 15 or 16 games.

Our record over the last 15 or 16 games when it counts against a rival tells you all you need to know about why Wenger has to be sacked..

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And again.

Fuck the record over the last 15 or 16 games.

Our record over the last 15 or 16 games when it counts against a rival tells you all you need to know about why Wenger has to be sacked..

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He really killed us today.

Wenger loses the important ones. When he loses he loses to maximum effect.

You have to hand it to Diego Simeone, what a bastard and real thorn in the ass for Real and Barca ....sorry wrong thread

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Originally Posted by Maestro

You have to hand it to Diego Simeone, what a bastard and real thorn in the ass for Real and Barca ....sorry wrong thread

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Possibly the right thread.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Wenger loses the important ones. When he loses he loses to maximum effect.

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He's a useless shite that boy

Punish him for me

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And again.

Fuck the record over the last 15 or 16 games.

Our record over the last 15 or 16 games when it counts against a rival tells you all you need to know about why Wenger has to be sacked..

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Arsene is a fucking wind up merchant! I really felt after the City game he had finally woken up! But no, he is still the clueless cunt we thought he was!

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And again.

Fuck the record over the last 15 or 16 games.

Our record over the last 15 or 16 games when it counts against a rival tells you all you need to know about why Wenger has to be sacked..

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How are you defining a rival or when it counts?

We lost narrowly away to a side in form. It happens. We only lost to their trademark late goal - they've done that with infuriating frequency recently but they won't keep doing it. They haven't lost at home since early November in the league and drawn with ManYoo and beaten Chelsea at home in that time. I can't say too much about our performance. People on here are notoriously negative when we lose - sometimes even when we win. I suspect the match reaction thread is full of pant wetting. A Spurs fan friend said he reckoned they just about deserved to win, he certainly didn't suggest it was a pasting.

In terms of 'when it counts', doesn't it a always count in a league? Until late April, early May there are no especially high pressure game, we lost yesterday but the position is recoverable - midweek Spurs go to Anfield, we're at home vs Leicester. And, as we have always finished top 4, we have always won those games at the end of a season 'when it counts', even if we have rather stumbled over the line at times. In terms of rivals, in the run of good results we've beaten Southampton at home and West Ham away (not traditional rivals, but sides who this year have been a threat to our top 4 position) and City away.

Overall I'm happy enough with what I've seen from us more recently. It's always disappointing to lose, especially at Spurs :sick: but I don't think they'll be above us come May if we keep playing like we have recently.

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Originally Posted by Letters

if we keep playing like we have recently.

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This is dependent on WUMger picking the correct team. It would sadly be beneficial to us if Ozil, Welbeck, Wilshere and maybe even the erratic Ramsey stayed injured. He shoe-horns players into areas of the pitch where time and time again they've proven to be ineffective. Walcott, Oxlade, Cazorla and Rosicky will all play less than they should, with form and what they add to the balance and effectiveness of the team not even factoring into it.

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Originally Posted by Letters

How are you defining a rival or when it counts?

We lost narrowly away to a side in form. It happens. We only lost to their trademark late goal - they've done that with infuriating frequency recently but they won't keep doing it. They haven't lost at home since early November in the league and drawn with ManYoo and beaten Chelsea at home in that time. I can't say too much about our performance. People on here are notoriously negative when we lose - sometimes even when we win. I suspect the match reaction thread is full of pant wetting. A Spurs fan friend said he reckoned they just about deserved to win, he certainly didn't suggest it was a pasting.

In terms of 'when it counts', doesn't it a always count in a league? Until late April, early May there are no especially high pressure game, we lost yesterday but the position is recoverable - midweek Spurs go to Anfield, we're at home vs Leicester. And, as we have always finished top 4, we have always won those games at the end of a season 'when it counts', even if we have rather stumbled over the line at times. In terms of rivals, in the run of good results we've beaten Southampton at home and West Ham away (not traditional rivals, but sides who this year have been a threat to our top 4 position) and City away.

Overall I'm happy enough with what I've seen from us more recently. It's always disappointing to lose, especially at Spurs :sick: but I don't think they'll be above us come May if we keep playing like we have recently.

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If you are following this Club, it is crystal clear how I am defining it. Whenever we are playing a rival in a match for something both teams need - whether it is the title or fourth you could make a fortune betting against us. We don't show up. Not a surprise because the Manager is never there doing anything. If the camera didn't focus on him, sitting there motionless, slouched in a sulk eminating his defeatist and listless demeanour to the team (which was every time he appeared on camera), you wouldn't, nor would the players notice he was even there.

There were nothing but the same robotic pre-ordained substitutions that paid no regard at all to what was happening, what was needed or who was playing well. We may as well have handed in the time and name of the players to be substituted with the team sheet, then Wenger could have stayed at home.

And make no mistake about it - we were pasted. In that game thread I posted and genuinely meant it when I said other than the scoreline, Tottenham will rarely have had an easier game (or words to that effect).

All games count to some degree, but the games against direct opponents that want what you want - who are you biggest threat - we can't beat them in direct competition.

Not because we aren't capable of beating them - we are. But we just do not have the mentality and fortitude to be counted when it most matters. Everyone can see that because it is that weakness that now defines our Club.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

If you are following this Club, it is crystal clear how I am defining it. Whenever we are playing a rival in a match for something both teams need - whether it is the title or fourth you could make a fortune betting against us. We don't show up. Not a surprise because the Manager is never there doing anything. If the camera didn't focus on him, sitting there motionless, slouched in a sulk eminating his defeatist and listless demeanour to the team (which was every time he appeared on camera), you wouldn't, nor would the players notice he was even there.

There were nothing but the same robotic pre-ordained substitutions that paid no regard at all to what was happening, what was needed or who was playing well. We may as well have handed in the time and name of the players to be substituted with the team sheet, then Wenger could have stayed at home.

And make no mistake about it - we were pasted. In that game thread I posted and genuinely meant it when I said other than the scoreline, Tottenham will rarely have had an easier game (or words to that effect).

All games count to some degree, but the games against direct opponents that want what you want - who are you biggest threat - we can't beat them in direct competition.

Not because we aren't capable of beating them - we are. But we just do not have the mentality and fortitude to be counted when it most matters. Everyone can see that because it is that weakness that now defines our Club.

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Seconded!

Winning and losing yesterday was the difference between seeing a real change in attitude and application as opposed to here we go again, momentum hits a brick wall, nothing has changed at all. Just set out the record on the last few years against the top 6. It's appalling and easily grounds for sacking. No other manager would have survived it.

Even if that wasn't the case, it is not at all acceptable to face off in a derby and get rolled over without a fight. Which is what happened. Not just because we don't turn up for the big games (except once in a blue moon) but also because we don't like getting up early on Saturdays - not even for £100K per week or £8mill a year.

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People on here are notoriously negative when we lose - sometimes even when we win. I suspect the match reaction thread is full of pant wetting. A Spurs fan friend said he reckoned they just about deserved to win, he certainly didn't suggest it was a pasting.

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Your friend is being generous. We were owned from start to finish. Everyone watching could see how badly we were getting pasted down the right and overrun in central midfield. Everyone bar Wenger of course.

Understand - it's not the fact we lost. It's the fact we didn't show up. Just like we didn't show up against Southampton when we needed the 3 points. Same against Utd when we flounced around the place like an animated, dressed lettuce. These are the key games people are speaking about, the ones that decide if we lie 3rd or 6th in the table, above or behind our closest rivals.

Then you think about the fact we DID turn up against the gypos. We know we CAN play well against the top teams, it's not like we don't have it in us. Think about it. That makes it even worse. Some piss taking going on here.

As for Wenger and his bat shit crazed team selections and his complete aversion to consistency and momentum, well that's just Wenger. I think everyone is beyond caring about that now and just accepts it as part and parcel of being a Gooner.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

If you are following this Club, it is crystal clear how I am defining it. Whenever we are playing a rival in a match for something both teams need - whether it is the title or fourth you could make a fortune betting against us. We don't show up. Not a surprise because the Manager is never there doing anything. If the camera didn't focus on him, sitting there motionless, slouched in a sulk eminating his defeatist and listless demeanour to the team (which was every time he appeared on camera), you wouldn't, nor would the players notice he was even there.

There were nothing but the same robotic pre-ordained substitutions that paid no regard at all to what was happening, what was needed or who was playing well. We may as well have handed in the time and name of the players to be substituted with the team sheet, then Wenger could have stayed at home.

And make no mistake about it - we were pasted. In that game thread I posted and genuinely meant it when I said other than the scoreline, Tottenham will rarely have had an easier game (or words to that effect).

All games count to some degree, but the games against direct opponents that want what you want - who are you biggest threat - we can't beat them in direct competition.

Not because we aren't capable of beating them - we are. But we just do not have the mentality and fortitude to be counted when it most matters. Everyone can see that because it is that weakness that now defines our Club.

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No other way to put it, great posting.

At present, I'm really not sure how to go.

As things stand, some of Wenger's decisions have left me lost for words, however at the same time we have to really wonder who would replace him.

When things were at their worst, I (as well as many others) was singing Klopp's praises saying that he would be the best person to replace Wenger. Some months on, and he is at the helm of the biggest disaster in European football that I have ever seen.

We really have to be careful on what we wish for.

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Originally Posted by Zerlathon

At present, I'm really not sure how to go.

As things stand, some of Wenger's decisions have left me lost for words, however at the same time we have to really wonder who would replace him.

When things were at their worst, I (as well as many others) was singing Klopp's praises saying that he would be the best person to replace Wenger. Some months on, and he is at the helm of the biggest disaster in European football that I have ever seen.

We really have to be careful on what we wish for.

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I agree with that. Klopp and martinez were touted as the next Arsenal managers but look how far they've gone down? Everton could be in a dog fight and as you saym Dortmund are (or were) last in their league.

Also Owen Coyle, where is he now?

Diego Simeone
A pragmatic, cynical and talented barstad who hates losing. There I said it, he's my flavour of the month ..year etc

We all know that only Wenger can manage Arsenal to any successful degree anyone else is doomed to fail. When he kicks the bucket inevitably, the club will fold.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

We all know that only Wenger can manage Arsenal to any successful degree anyone else is doomed to fail. When he kicks the bucket inevitably, the club will fold.

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Why bother posting that? Literally no-one has said that.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Also Owen Coyle, where is he now?

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Phil Brown, Moyes, and Coyle were the dog's bollocks once upon a time.

Only Wenger can manage Arsenal to any successful degree anyone else is doomed to fail.

It's probably been said in board meetings once or twice

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

We all know that only Wenger can manage Arsenal to any successful degree anyone else is doomed to fail. When he kicks the bucket inevitably, the club will fold.

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's probably been said in board meetings once or twice

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Rumour has it he is top dog the order is:

Wenger
God
Jesus
Jurgen Klopp

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Originally Posted by Özim

Rumour has it he is top dog the order is:

Wenger
Diaby
God
Jesus
Jurgen Klopp

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:gp:

This time last year we were top. 12 months and millions of pounds spent later, we've spent most of the season outside the top 4.

Get rid.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

This time last year we were top. 12 months and millions of pounds spent later, we've spent most of the season outside the top 4.

Get rid.

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As well i have to congratulate the players (they) have been fantastic and (showed) resilience in tough moments.

The only one of our players who would have tried to prevent Kitty Genevieves' murder is Alexis Sanchez

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

This time last year we were top. 12 months and millions of pounds spent later, we've spent most of the season outside the top 4.

Get rid.

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He's a great manager if money and making a profit is the only thing that matters, but if it's football that counts forget it, he can't hack it.