Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

I suppose an encouraging thought is that, even though we only finished 2 goals shy of Chelsea's total last year, there's every reason to expect more goals out of this current group of midfielders and attackers? Sanchez, Giroud and Cazorla (from his deeper role) all weighed in with the kind of numbers that I would have hoped/expected from them, but we missed out on a lot of goals through Walcott's absence, and I don't see why we shouldn't be looking at guys like Welbeck(8), Wilshere(2), Ozil(5) and Oxlade-Chamberlain(3) to be doubling (or getting close to doubling) their season-totals next time around? Even Ramsey was down on his previous season's contribution (10 in 41 down from 16 in 34).

Obviously the main concern with this is keeping everyone fit enough to deliver...

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To me this emphasizes the need for a proven goalscorer. If Maureen hadn't splashed out on Costa & "done a Wenger" hoping he could convert a wide player or expect Remy to suddenly become World class (like we seem to think will happen with Giroud) then I would strongly suggest Chelsea wouldn't have won the league. As you mention, we have a good spread of goals in the team with room for improvement - put a 30+ goals proven striker in there & you have a chance.

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Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm

Reckon he might give Akpom a shot.

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Just banged in a hattrick in our first friendly...

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

Yes we do differ - Arsenal football club shouldn't be looking to play a striker who "could" be dangerous. If we are to compete we have to have a striker who is dangerous & able to score 30+ goals a year. Theo is not composed enough infront of goal & physically he is a chocolate teapot. Giroud should be at Stoke. Its normally a fair shout to say that whoever scores the most goals wins the league. With this in mind we can't have "could be good" players in such key positions on the pitch.

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Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

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I don't think you can add Giroud into that bracket, he's not a young up and coming he's as good as he's ever going to be and that's not good enough.
He is Sylvain Wiltord for 2015, a decent squad striker but shouldn't be playing week in, week out.
Theo has been with us ten years if he was going to make it as an out and out striker he would have done so by now, he can function as part of an interchangeable front three with similar players....but actually on his own up front....not in a million years...he doesn't hold up the ball well enough or have the reading of the game.
And then you have Welbeck who for England actually plays well as a central striker but that's because he has Rooney playing behind him.

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

To me this emphasizes the need for a proven goalscorer. If Maureen hadn't splashed out on Costa & "done a Wenger" hoping he could convert a wide player or expect Remy to suddenly become World class (like we seem to think will happen with Giroud) then I would strongly suggest Chelsea wouldn't have won the league. As you mention, we have a good spread of goals in the team with room for improvement - put a 30+ goals proven striker in there & you have a chance.

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Mate, I doubt you'll find any Arsenal fan out there who's wish-list doesn't start with a world-class (or potentially world-class), 30-goal-a-season forward! If we can do it, then I'm all for it.

For what it's worth, I don't think Wenger would hesitate either, if a player of that standard suddenly came on the market - the problem, as I see it though, is that I don't think he's interested in anything less than that, and that's where we currently find ourselves. We'll either do a shock deal for someone awesome, or we won't do anything. Unfortunately we all know which one of those scenarios is more likely, but it is probably he right call - anything less than the very best doesn't really improve us.

Honestly though, there seems to be veeeeeeeeeeeeery little happening out there right now in terms of elite-level CFs moving around. Apart from Jackson Martinez (and I would hesitate to call him truly world-class just yet), has anyone else moved anywhere? Does anyone even look close?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

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Only Henry was a converted wide player from those you mention - the rest were bought as strikers. All of those made an impact within a year or two, how long do you want to give Theo - another few years maybe?
I would suggest not buying the correct players for correct positions has been disastrous for us - not a success. Henry was an amazing buy but he had natural ability that Theo can only dream about & he was big enough to take what defenders like to dish out. He is the only success in this case. Not buying a quality, proven goalscorer since RVP left whilst he has bought the likes of Giroud, Welbeck & Sonogo is terrible management from Wenger. It also would suggest that even Wenger doesn't think Theo can fit the role to buy the dross he has & put them in ahead of him.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't think you can add Giroud into that bracket, he's not a young up and coming he's as good as he's ever going to be and that's not good enough.
He is Sylvain Wiltord for 2015, a decent squad striker but shouldn't be playing week in, week out.
Theo has been with us ten years if he was going to make it as an out and out striker he would have done so by now, he can function as part of an interchangeable front three with similar players....but actually on his own up front....not in a million years...he doesn't hold up the ball well enough or have the reading of the game.
And then you have Welbeck who for England actually plays well as a central striker but that's because he has Rooney playing behind him.

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Where did I mention Giroud? That last paragraph I wrote applies to Giroud.

As for all the talk on what Walcott can and can't do, I heard the same being said about Coquelin whilst loaned out to Charlton. Until a player gets a good run of games we'll never know and so far Walcott has done well up front so far. Sounds so foolish when people say he can't play there.

I'm all for buying a striker this year but I'm not against Wenger trying something new up top.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

Mate, I doubt you'll find any Arsenal fan out there who's wish-list doesn't start with a world-class (or potentially world-class), 30-goal-a-season forward! If we can do it, then I'm all for it.

For what it's worth, I don't think Wenger would hesitate either, if a player of that standard suddenly came on the market - the problem, as I see it though, is that I don't think he's interested in anything less than that, and that's where we currently find ourselves. We'll either do a shock deal for someone awesome, or we won't do anything. Unfortunately we all know which one of those scenarios is more likely, but it is probably he right call - anything less than the very best doesn't really improve us.

Honestly though, there seems to be veeeeeeeeeeeeery little happening out there right now in terms of elite-level CFs moving around. Apart from Jackson Martinez (and I would hesitate to call him truly world-class just yet), has anyone else moved anywhere? Does anyone even look close?

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I agree - its hard to come up with an Aguero/Suarez type striker that would fit the bill but where were we when Liverpool bought Suarez or when City bought Aguero - too busy trying to turn Bendtner into a player or thinking Giroud was the answer.
Last year Dybala had made a name for himself as the new Aguero. Juventus get in quick & snap him up. Where were we again?
If these type of players are like rocking horse shit, we have to be more pro-active in getting to them before others, especially in key positions on the pitch.

Tbh the Giroud we saw this season is good enough to lead a title challenge. He was scoring at a good rate and his general all-round play is right up there with any striker in Europe IMO. He's actually more of a creative player than a goalscorer. Walcott is the polar opposite, very selfish but will guarantee you goals. I'm sure if Walcott played up top for a full season without injuries he'd match Harry Kane and get 30 goals. But would the team be better off? I don't know. As much as people like to claim strikers should be selfish, it is ultimately a team game and your strikers need to be aware of options around them. A mix of Walcott and Giroud is Van Persie. He was perfect, for the 3 years he was injury free. Hard to find a player like that right now.

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

Only Henry was a converted wide player from those you mention - the rest were bought as strikers. All of those made an impact within a year or two, how long do you want to give Theo - another few years maybe?
I would suggest not buying the correct players for correct positions has been disastrous for us - not a success. Henry was an amazing buy but he had natural ability that Theo can only dream about & he was big enough to take what defenders like to dish out. He is the only success in this case. Not buying a quality, proven goalscorer since RVP left whilst he has bought the likes of Giroud, Welbeck & Sonogo is terrible management from Wenger. It also would suggest that even Wenger doesn't think Theo can fit the role to buy the dross he has & put them in ahead of him.

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RVP wasn't a striker when we bought him or a proven goal scorer, neither were Anelka and Adebayor for that matter. None of them were dead on certs to score 30 goals a season and that's the point I'm making. Refutes your point about us not being a club that goes into seasons taking a gamble on players that could be dangerous.

In fact, unless I'm mistaken, weren't you arguing the other week that we should push out Arteta and Rosicky to try out our young reserve players that have zero first team experience?