Liverpool vs Arsenal - 31.08.2025 - KO 16:30

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Originally Posted by IBK

Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm wth you on Zubi. I think he is a class act...but given the pace and physicality of the EPL compared to Spain it's understandable that he might take a bit of time to adjust. While he has made some errors I am confident that he will iron these out with a bit of time and familiarity with his team mates. Same goes for Gyok - and in particular I think he is not fully conditioned yet. My main concern with Gyok is that I didn't see him making many runs yesterday - bar the move that Martinelli fcuked up. If he is not going to show/get into the box then he is not going to encorage passes to him. I have a small concern that we have bought a battering ram rather than a player with sufficient technique to blend with an Arteta team - particularly if we are going to continue to be so slow getting the ball forward to him.

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I hope I’m wrong for sure, the problem is he’s 26 not 19….i simply don’t believe you can just adapt to a quicker stronger league unless you have the ability. Partey was injured loads but he never seemed to me to have adaptation issues.

I do think a new coach will need to spend money to implant his signature on the team, as an Arsenal supporting mate pointed out we played with four centre backs yesterday. That’s on top of the three defensive midfielders we had in the middle of the park. This is a team with much talent but is incredibly unbalanced.

It’s easy to say with hindsight but I think most of our summer spending was wasted on a man who is simply too certain in his way of working to change his ways. It hurts so much more than with City that we are allowing Liverpool to step over us to get the major prizes because we lack the ruthlessness to do what needs to be done.

Liverpool winning the title was painful extremely painful, not because I dislike Liverpool. I have a great deal of respect for the club and the way it conducts business. But they’ve stepped in when we wouldn’t step up

That title last season was ours for the taking, similarly with City clearly going through more than a one off stutter it could have been ours for the taking again. But it won’t be, we know it won’t be….yesterday was a chance to prove everyone wrong and inflict a massive psychological blow on Liverpool…they even expected it because they played cautiously, they knew we had the ability to punish them….but we didn’t fucking try. I can’t forgive that

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Originally Posted by IBK

Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm wth you on Zubi. I think he is a class act...but given the pace and physicality of the EPL compared to Spain it's understandable that he might take a bit of time to adjust. While he has made some errors I am confident that he will iron these out with a bit of time and familiarity with his team mates. Same goes for Gyok - and in particular I think he is not fully conditioned yet. My main concern with Gyok is that I didn't see him making many runs yesterday - bar the move that Martinelli fcuked up. If he is not going to show/get into the box then he is not going to encorage passes to him. I have a small concern that we have bought a battering ram rather than a player with sufficient technique to blend with an Arteta team - particularly if we are going to continue to be so slow getting the ball forward to him.

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I think from what we’ve seen of Gyokeres so far he is definitely a battering ram with hardly anything in terms of finesse and technique. Maybe he’ll play himself into form as he gets used to the league but I believe this is simply what he is and I think it’s on the rest of the team to adapt for him if we want to see the best of him.

I’m not going to judge too harshly though based off games at Old Trafford and Anfield, 2 grounds that we rarely perform at year in year out, however I am beginning to understand why Sesko’s style of play made him originally a more suitable choice for us.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I think from what we’ve seen of Gyokeres so far he is definitely a battering ram with hardly anything in terms of finesse and technique. Maybe he’ll play himself into form as he gets used to the league but I believe this is simply what he is and I think it’s on the rest of the team to adapt for him if we want to see the best of him.

I’m not going to judge too harshly though based off games at Old Trafford and Anfield, 2 grounds that we rarely perform at year in year out, however I am beginning to understand why Sesko’s style of play made him originally a more suitable choice for us.

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This is an interesting take.

I must say I don't see how Sesko, or even my preferred option, Ekitike, would do much better with the pointless system Arteta has chosen to operate in attack.

I actually think a battering Ram is what suits a team that lacks imagination going forward and insists on imposing its physicality on all opponents.

Gyokores didn't get any quality service or a single chance from what I saw yesterday. I don't think anything can be said about his performance yesterday as he was simply sacrificed to maintain our facade of control.

Eventually, I do believe Arteta will resort to long balls to seek him out (primarily from Raya or maybe Zubi), and this was where I was going to that our most effective form of attack under this manager will end up being plain route one football, which could have obviously been achieved with far less than a billion quid.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

This is an interesting take.

I must say I don't see how Sesko, or even my preferred option, Ekitike, would do much better with the pointless system Arteta has chosen to operate in attack.

I actually think a battering Ram is what suits a team that lacks imagination going forward and insists on imposing its physicality on all opponents.

Gyokores didn't get any quality service or a single chance from what I saw yesterday. I don't think anything can be said about his performance yesterday as he was simply sacrificed to maintain our facade of control.

Eventually, I do believe Arteta will resort to long balls to seek him out (primarily from Raya or maybe Zubi), and this was where I was going to that our most effective form of attack under this manager will end up being plain route one football, which could have obviously been achieved with far less than a billion quid.

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Neither did he make runs though...

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I was going to say the same thing earlier but wanted to see their take on MOTD first, which was non existent.

Honestly I do try to give Arteta the benefit of doubt and I want to really believe he has a plan and knows what he's doing, but that decision really pissed me off and made me feel like we've got a cynical human being in charge of our club.

Nwaneri was on the bench, Trossard was on the bench.

Established internationals like Gyokores and Madueke were being bullied off the ball, and the few times they got a sniff, they folded under that atmosphere......but he expected a 15 year old to come on and do what exactly? I mean what is someone who has not had an EPL shot on target suppose to do in that atmosphere??

Well if you ask me I think he was hoping for another pity party and probably a soft penalty.... whatever his thinking, it suggests to me he had no intention of winning that game honourably or properly.

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exactly, to play him ahead of Leo in particular (who, pay rise or not, must have been fuming) was a joke - ok so Leo is better on the left but still bring him on or at least Nwaneri

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I hope I’m wrong for sure, the problem is he’s 26 not 19….i simply don’t believe you can just adapt to a quicker stronger league unless you have the ability. Partey was injured loads but he never seemed to me to have adaptation issues.

I do think a new coach will need to spend money to implant his signature on the team, as an Arsenal supporting mate pointed out we played with four centre backs yesterday. That’s on top of the three defensive midfielders we had in the middle of the park. This is a team with much talent but is incredibly unbalanced.

It’s easy to say with hindsight but I think most of our summer spending was wasted on a man who is simply too certain in his way of working to change his ways. It hurts so much more than with City that we are allowing Liverpool to step over us to get the major prizes because we lack the ruthlessness to do what needs to be done.

Liverpool winning the title was painful extremely painful, not because I dislike Liverpool. I have a great deal of respect for the club and the way it conducts business. But they’ve stepped in when we wouldn’t step up

That title last season was ours for the taking, similarly with City clearly going through more than a one off stutter it could have been ours for the taking again. But it won’t be, we know it won’t be….yesterday was a chance to prove everyone wrong and inflict a massive psychological blow on Liverpool…they even expected it because they played cautiously, they knew we had the ability to punish them….but we didn’t fucking try. I can’t forgive that

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I don't think he lacks ability. Remember that there were other quality teams chasing him, including Liverpool. Talking of Liverpool - I didn't see their £116 million signing - Witrz - do much yesterday either...

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Originally Posted by Letters

And maybe you could justify that last season when we didn't have a striker worthy of the name. But now we do. But if they're not getting service then they're not going to be effective.

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and they're not getting service becasue Nwaneri and Eze who can make things happen are both on the bench for the majority of the game

The only person offering a threat of any kind was Madueke but he was over the other side to Gyokeres who was stuck with Mr Head-Down-and-Run

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Originally Posted by Letters

Are you new here?

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Letters

One could argue that's exactly what we did at Old Trafford.

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I was calm after Man Utd, a difficult first game with lots of new players - I'm not 'angry' now but very resigned to another season of crap football and no trophies

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'm disappointed that Arteta's first thought seems to be that this was a game we must not lose rather than must win.
This early in the season there are no must win games, that's why I was always OK with us having a tough start to the season. You wouldn't want this set of fixtures in the run in when, if you're in the mix, games are absolutely must win.

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You're not in the mix unless you pick up every available point throughout the season. That's why I was annoyed when Arteta didn't try to beat Brighton last year in the third game, 10 men or not - Pep or Klopp would have

As far as I'm concerned if you're not trying to win you're trying to lose - Arteta still thinks football is played on a computer, not on a pitch where the perfect FK can happen to upset all your careful plans...

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think HCZ writing off players this early is silly too

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agreed, ridiculous, we have a good squad but their potential is not being maximised

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Originally Posted by Letters

I've never been sure Arteta can get us over the line in terms of landing the biggest trophies. I always thought this season was his last chance to prove me wrong. With the transfer window we've had it definitely is. Surely the board will lose patience with him if he still can't deliver after the way they've backed him.

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You'd like to think so, sadly it will take a really shit season which won't be fun, especially if like me, someone is dumb enough to pay to go to the games :pal:

What the Kroenkes won't do is anticipate the failure and move him on, say, at Christmas, before it's completely too late

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Originally Posted by IBK

Neither did he make runs though...

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Maybe I need to rewatch the match again, but I can't recall a single time anyone got the ball and was looking to play a through pass....all I witnessed, especially in the 1st half where we were "dominant", were players who insisted on either holding the ball for too long or playing safe sideways passes to avoid conceding possession.

It almost seemed like attempting to play a through pass was forbidden and not part of the plan....and though this sounds ridiculous, one needs to consider the kind of control freak we have as a manager.

I mean this is someone who later blamed Zubi for conceding the foul that led to the goal, like its normal to expect a player to score from that distance.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

It also seems he believes the only way to score a goal is to take advantage of a mistake from the opposition or a moment of brilliance, at least he repeated that refrain shortly after the match.

This is something that baffles me as it is extremely unPeplike. That's why sometimes I argue I'm not sure he has an identity and knows how he wants his team to play, and by "play" I don't mean defend, but go after a game, score and win (the aim of the game, let's not forget)

It's really a shame that after six years, he still can't think of a way to actually play the game in a manner that leads to these outcomes instead of being a parasite that continually capitalises on people's mistakes.

No matter how many trophies he wins (or not in this case), no one is ever going to remember that kind of football.... at least not for the right reasons.

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This