Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes. That was in response to a point about him not signing established players and preferring to sign younger players being 'a stage'.
I never said he didn't have any money at all, but we didn't have the money to go out and by a Sanchez or an Ozil.
Now we do, and we have.

You always do this. Wilfully misrepresent my actual views, attack things I've not said and then basically call me a liar when I correct your misunderstanding.
Pretty lazy straw-man stuff.

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Yes you did. Are you crazy! :lol:

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It was never a 'stage'. We didn't have the money. Now we do, he's spending it.

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What the heck does that say?

If anyone is lazy, it's you take quotes out of context and I often wonder if you read the whole post. We hit the point about established players as well and I clearly said we had that the money to spend on established players with my examples and then you conceded that point and said the following.

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Wenger probably does prefer to develop players than buy them off the shelf. I would have thought any manager would. Surely it's more satisfying to develop a Fabregas rather than buy one off the shelf. I never understand why spending £100m of a multi-billionaire's spare change is regarded as 'ambitious'.

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And you still haven't answered my question. You wummed your way out with that silly smiley.

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I imagine developing your own player is more satisfying for a manger but should a manager be putting his own satisfaction and ideals above the needs of his own players, the fans and club? Does it outweigh the satisfaction of winning silverware?

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I haven't misrepresented any of what you've said Letters. You made a short blunt statement about our financial position. I corrected you on that. You elaborated your point. I corrected you again. You then concede that Wenger does properly prefer to develop young players which is the point Herbert was originally eluding to and what I was commenting on. There was in fact a stage where he'd prefer to take £30m and spread spending on young and undiscovered talent that he could develop.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

it's you take quotes out of context.

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Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

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It's ironic, this seems to be your answer to everything, the minute you get yourself into a hole you can't get out of you post stuff like this.

He was clearly not wumming.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

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:pal: It's funny how your memory has all of a sudden gone hazy. You ducked out of the argument last week because you admitted we had money to spend on established players during our barren run because Wenger prefers developing players.

Yes, we have money to spend now I can understand that point and not up for debate.

I've used quotes from your argument just to keep the page count low but also posted a link to where the debate started so you can re read what was said....but since your so lazy.....

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Originally Posted by Özim

It's ironic, this seems to be your answer to everything, the minute you get yourself into a hole you can't get out of you post stuff like this.

He was clearly not wumming.

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He knows I wasn't wumming but he's wound himself up and is frustrated because he doesn't have an answer. He stops reading posts and won't answer anything when he gets stuck. It's petulant.

Of course we didn't have an unlimited amount of money to play with during our barren run and we'd often sell to raise funds. But with the funds raised we could have bought maybe one or two established players a season instead of placing all bets on young unknowns developing into superstars. I understand the strategy and the conditions we were under but it was the wrong way to go. It costs us players and silverware because players like RVP and Fabregas could never understand why after losing a big name we wouldn't reinvest in someone that's more established. We can't repeat the same mistakes.

Children, Children....play nicely.
My own contention is that yes he does (by his own admission) prefer developing young players rather than buying established stars. But I think the financial constraints also meant that rightly or wrongly he felt the established stars he could afford were no better than what he already had.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Children, Children....play nicely.
My own contention is that yes he does (by his own admission) prefer developing young players rather than buying established stars. But I think the financial constraints also meant that rightly or wrongly he felt the established stars he could afford were no better than what he already had.

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We needed a mix and to strike a right balance. Developing Theo, RVP, Cesc...they were good investments. But leaning so heavy on youth development meant we lost out on silverware and players like RVP and Cesc lost faith in the manager’s strategy. Denilson shouldn’t have been anywhere near the first team and he persisted with Eboue at right wing for a long time as well. Costly decisions and there were plenty more. What made things more frustrating for me was hearing Wenger say year after year that we had ‘plenty of attacker/midfielders etc’ and name players like Denilson, Eboue or even Bendy as viable options only to realise that they weren’t good enough too late in the day. We passed up on signing good players for this lot and I worry we might be seeing the same with this Vidal situation. Ramsey and Wilshere need to develop into seriously good players if we’re passing on such a player. Same applies to Giroud/Walcott/Welbeck if we don’t sign a forward. At least this time around the players he’s reserving a spot for have some actual talent.

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

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No, I know you don't endorse it. I'm just elaborating on your point (ranting) on what I think we needed at the time and bringing it back to where we were with the original conversation. I can understand Wenger's rationale sometimes but he just goes a step too far sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

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It would never work with both of them in the same team, one of them has to be content sitting on the bench or find another team to get more playing time. :coffee: