If you look at 1990 and 1996 when we got to the semis against Germany and compare that squad to today and don’t think this squad is vastly superior then I really don’t know what to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
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If you look at 1990 and 1996 when we got to the semis against Germany and compare that squad to today and don’t think this squad is vastly superior then I really don’t know what to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Tbh the best players are physically and technicaly better than anyone 30 years ago but the point that applies to every nation -Slovenia would probably trash that England side of '96Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
The point is that to not convincingly beat the lower-grade sides we've faced, while demonstrating a clear formation and positive tactics, allied to picking the wrong side, shows Southgate has failed to make anything like the best of what he has
The Dutch are the only really decent team we faced and he played a better formation and finally gave Watkins, albeit belatedly, a chance to show what he can do
Again when comparing quality you’re talking about quality relative to the teams around you at the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
In 1990 there were several teams better than England including the German team we went out to on penalties
In 1996 a lot of teams underperformed, we thrashed the Dutch at Wembley despite them having a stronger side than us
You won't get any argument from me that Venables and Robson weren't much better managers
In a meaningless friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I have never cared about friendlies. Because they’re friendlies. And thus meaningless.
Well firstly there’s no objective measure of quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
And secondly comparing across generations in sport is always tricky.
That was covered in another replyQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that Southgate isn’t better than what’s come before him, he has a better squad than a lot of the coaches that have come before him, he’s been incredibly lucky at times and the football being played is atrocious at times.
I’d love us to win tonight if it meant that he’d step down afterwards, hell I’d be in favour of giving him a knighthood but yeah I want him gone whatever the result tonight and I hope he makes the choice to go which is the choice he should have made after the Qatar World Cup.
That isn't unreasonable. I don't think he's an exceptional manager. But I agree with MO above when he said that what he has done is foster a real team spirit in the camp which shouldn't be understated. I read some stuff about the psychological work he's done around penalty shootouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Luck plays its part in football, but I don't accept that a World Cup semi-final and two Euros finals in a row has come about by dumb luck. Or that it's because we suddenly have this exceptional squad.
I'd love us to win regardless of what it means. And I think it's probably time to move on either way. But spoiler alert: we're not going to be sweeping all before us under the next guy either.
I genuinely think the potential is there that England could well have the best squad in world football (assuming the right players are picked) that then needs to translate to creating the best team. It wasn’t just an act of hubris on behalf of the bookies that made us favourites for this tournament prior to it starting…I thought the French squad was the best but I have to say I think they have largely squandered their potential…..this is a team that could and in my view should have won the last two European championships and the World Cup. No favourites don’t always win but they’ve been comfortably the best team in the world in terms of individual talent for the last eight years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
If we win tonight (I don’t think we will) I see it as a platform for the World Cup in two years time. And yes I would see it as a waste of our potential if we don’t win the World Cup in 2026 because I think with a competent manager I don’t think there is a national side that would be better than ours not France, not Spain, not Germany and certainly not Brazil or Argentina.
I don’t think the same thing could be said of the so-called Golden generation. There was far more strength in depth in international football then, and the players I don’t think are the same level as many of the ones we have now
It’s not even really about Southgate then, I think there’s lots of things he can rightly take credit for and certainly was a stabilising effect after we were really drifting for years but there’s no room for sentiment. Football is an ephemeral sport, Messi winning the World Cup at the last is not usually how it works…you have a window of opportunity and if you don’t take it, it passes you by like it did with Portugal when they had their golden generation of Figo, Rui Costa, Conceicao etc and The Belgians missed their chance too
Southgate has a fundamental choice today, show he has cojones and drops Kane for a better forward who will give a much better outlet for our attacking midfield, or play him despite all the evidence to the contrary and hope we pub it again, but if he doesn''t change it and we do win there will always be an asterisk against the win for those who want their team not just to win, but win playing watchable football and making the most of the talent available