Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

I'm basing it on the things people criticise Wenger for, not strengthening the squad when called for (didn't sign a proper centre back last summer and actually still hasn't this summer)....and overusing certain players and shoe horning them into positions they are not suited to.
The length of time both have been in the job is irrelevant, I'm not trying to claim one manager is miles better than the other, I'm saying they are the same level. Van Gaal was a great manager who won big things but arguably even at his best was flawed and now is something of a dinosaur...maybe you disagree that's up to you but I think that's an apt description of Wenger.
Of course there are differences but there are similarities between them, they are both stubborn and can be tactically out maneuvered (Mourinho has had the better of Van Gaal in their recent meetings including the champions league final 2010).

Van Gaal is a good manager still, but arguably if he wins a title it will only because of spending at the same level as their neighbours (Pellegrini also a manager at a similar level to Van Gaal and Wenger)

That's not rose tinted, that's just not seeing things in black and white. Is Wenger good enough to take us to where we need to be? No probably not. But I think if you told most people that someone like Pulis could have consistently got us to finish in the top four....I don't think I'd be the one whose view points look ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

What planet are you on - How can you compare Wenger & Van Gaal when the Dutchman's only been in the job 2 minutes. Wengers had 2 decades on Van Gaal, so when you say he had to do the same last year with youth defenders & wingers playing full back - its understandable when you inherit a squad, NOT when you've been there for 20 years!.

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Indeed. In similar qualitative comparative analyses situations it may be more valid to compare like for like. Wenger's first season vs Van Gaal's, weighted by expenditure for instance.

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Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann

Indeed. In similar qualitative comparative analyses situations it may be more valid to compare like for like. Wenger's first season vs Van Gaal's, weighted by expenditure for instance.

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Then you would also have to consider the squads they inherited.

Utd now apparantly close to signing Pedro for 25-30m euros :coffee:

They can have him. He's worse than Jesus Navas.

He's really not....don't know if he's the answer to their striking conundrum but a damn good player

Moutinho?

Walcott's a better player. Playing in successful teams elevates average players like Pedro. When Messi's not around and Pedro has to go alone because Smalling has let in 4 goals, it's a different story. He'll be shit here - guaranteed. He's no Sanchez, forgot the talent, he doesn't even have the mentality.

Respectfully disagree but my understanding is that it's completely irrelevant anyway, surely they are under a transfer embargo and wouldn't be able to join United till january?.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I'm basing it on the things people criticise Wenger for, not strengthening the squad when called for (didn't sign a proper centre back last summer and actually still hasn't this summer)....and overusing certain players and shoe horning them into positions they are not suited to.
The length of time both have been in the job is irrelevant, I'm not trying to claim one manager is miles better than the other, I'm saying they are the same level. Van Gaal was a great manager who won big things but arguably even at his best was flawed and now is something of a dinosaur...maybe you disagree that's up to you but I think that's an apt description of Wenger.
Of course there are differences but there are similarities between them, they are both stubborn and can be tactically out maneuvered (Mourinho has had the better of Van Gaal in their recent meetings including the champions league final 2010).

Van Gaal is a good manager still, but arguably if he wins a title it will only because of spending at the same level as their neighbours (Pellegrini also a manager at a similar level to Van Gaal and Wenger)

That's not rose tinted, that's just not seeing things in black and white. Is Wenger good enough to take us to where we need to be? No probably not. But I think if you told most people that someone like Pulis could have consistently got us to finish in the top four....I don't think I'd be the one whose view points look ridiculous.

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If we're going overall....Van Gaal wins and it's not debatable. What he did at Ajax alone all those years ago tops Wenger's career.

Dominated the league with three back to back title wins. An undefeated win league included. And that undefeated league win extended to an undefeated Champions League win. Wenger's never done back to back league wins or won the champs league.

That's all without mentioning his league wins with Barca, Bayern and AZ. It's a glowing CV. I didn't realise this guy was the one that coached legends like Bergkamp, Overmars, Davids, Seedorf the De Board brothers and Van der Sar. Shit. In terms of youth development and total football, he's Wenger's daddy. :lol:

In terms of what Van Gaal is capable of now? I don't know. It's way too early to talk about his Utd career after one season. We'll see what happens but the guy is legend. Wenger would have to really pull some magic out the bag to top Van Gaal's legacy.

I'm only comparing their respective abilities now, although I would say it's not the worlds biggest feat to win three eredivise titles with Ajax, although yes his Champions League win was impressive. I don't know enough to say whether he individually developed the talents you have mentioned or whether he was fortunate enough to have such talent at his disposal as a result of an excellent Ajax scouting/youth development set up.
Also in mentioning AZ, let's not forget Steve McClaren won the title with Twente a year later and he is generally thought of as a wally (and not totally unfairly)
Would Wenger have achieved what Van Gaal has had he made the move from one club to another as readily? I'm not going to say because it would be supposition. Though would have been interesting to see the trajectory of his career had he been released from his contract at Monaco to manage Bayern Munich in 1993.
I have personally long rated Van Gaal for all the achievements you have listed, but it's quite abundantly clear there are also the massive tactical/managerial foibles that we deride Wenger for, which again I put down as much to them both being managers from a different era.
This may sound ageist but you are less likely to be a cutting edge innovator as you get past sixty, and this is why I perhaps I rather disrespectful use the term relic and dinosaur to describe both.