in fairness i don't like being questionedQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
why did you beat that hooker black and blue?
You do you and let me do me....
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in fairness i don't like being questionedQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
why did you beat that hooker black and blue?
You do you and let me do me....
The most ridiculous part is that he still believes his teams are providing some extra special service to football and society at large by playing some revolutionary type of football. How special is your game when you have been tanked 15-3 in 3 consecutive games by a team you like to consider your equal?.
The questions are coming thick and fast, not out of the blue, but as a result of years of watching the same shit happening and wondering why Wenger hasn't reacted or done something about it. Questions like, why don't you play players in their proper positions? Why do you keep starting that gimp when he's consistently off form? It's legitimate to question him on the back of a catalogue of failures, relative to where we should be in the stated plan and given our resources. Same goes for all of them, they should all be questioned. I mean, WTF is going on? We have money now, for a few seasons now some of our key opponents have been in disarray, yet none of these advantages have been seized and if anything we have tumbled backwards. Questions most certainly should be asked. Tougher ones than the media will stick their necks out to ask.
Been catching with the debate on here and there is some great points being raised, arguments and coster-arguments. Pound for pound and all well reasoned and expressed, GW at it's finest! top stuff fellas.
PS* Unmask the seven
we will finish 4th, wenger will sign a new contract and we can have this fun again next year.
although I wouldn't mind finishing 5th, think Europa league we have a chance in. And football should be about winning things more than just playing CL football each year.
Leave.
Saw this in a comments section.
Classic.Quote:
Once more a top 5 finish. How is that a bad thing?
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...r-club-arsenal
Tony is thinking along the same lines. Wenger doesn't want anyone around to challenge him.Quote:
Tony Adams says Arsene Wenger did not want him coaching at his former club Arsenal
Arsenal great Tony Adams says he does not think he will be able to return to the club in a coaching capacity while Arsene Wenger is in charge.
Adams claims Wenger is "essentially not a coach" and prefers an assistant who will not "ruffle feathers".
The 50-year-old made the comments in his autobiography Sober, which has been serialised in The Sun.
Adams is currently managing La Liga club Granada, who he has been unable to save from relegation, but is closely identified with Arsenal, where he won 10 major honours during a 19-year stay.
There is a statue of the former central defender outside Arsenal's Emirates Stadium but he has not been granted the opportunity to coach at his former club.
And he wrote: "Perhaps Arsene thought I might be too challenging for him.
"He seemed to like an assistant such as Pat Rice or Steve Bould, both great club men who were not going to ruffle feathers.
"Arsene is so dominant that he was probably not going to like it if I said, 'We're conceding bad goals, I'm going to take the back four today and organise them'.
"Because Arsene is essentially not a coach - and that is the second reason why I believe he didn't want me.
"Back in the day, I said in an interview coaching wasn't Arsene's strong point.
"Actually in the original draft, I said he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.
"And, though I modified that in the final article, it didn't go down well.
"It all left me feeling that I would never get a chance in any capacity while Arsene was there.
"Much as I respected him for his long and successful tenure, my occasional willingness to pass comment on him and the team probably counted against me."
Steve Bould is currently Wenger's assistant at Arsenal
Adams also claims that Manchester United tried to sign him on two occasions, initially in 1991 and then again in 1996.
"I turned them down both times because I was Arsenal through and through," he wrote.
"At the time, the wages weren't going to be much better, and I was stuck in my drinking and the London life with my mates and family around me.
"I wouldn't have had the tools to cope up in Manchester on my own.
"The second United approach came in 96, in the autumn just five weeks after I had stopped drinking, and in that period of uncertainty when Arsene Wenger was taking over from the sacked Bruce Rioch.
"I guess Sir Alex [Ferguson] might also have wanted me because, as well as feeling he might be strengthening United, he might be weakening Arsenal."
Pretty much what a lot of us think about Wenger. Only weak insecure people act the way he does. Confident people want to be challenged, especially if it makes them reach higher achievements. Ferguson was always changing his assistants and backroom staff. Wenger always falls on his many excuses for failure. Now he cant even secure the coveted 4th place anymore.
#End the Ineptitude
I think that's probably right, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
:lol:Quote:
Adams is currently managing La Liga club Granada, who he has been unable to save from relegation
Adams has been a hopeless manager, not sure how well he'd do as a coach.
Adams hasn't really told us anything we didn't already know. Wenger has always surrounded himself with yes men. He's too stubborn to accept anyone else's opinion.
Not sure there'd be any manager who'd want Tony as his assistant though!
Yep, Wenger is a control freak, he has total control of the Technical side at the moment and is in no rush to let go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
He doesn't want players or coaches confronting him or questioning him, those that do he moves on.
It's bizarre it's all tied in with his refusal to get into confrontation
So it seems he wants to avoid confrontation with those who might question his methods
He asked Pat Rice and Steve Bould as a player in the past not to shout at players
Adams said he had to speak to Ian Wright about his timekeeping because Wenger wouldn't do it and instead changed the training sessions to fit around Wrights tardiness.
Considering he spent his entire career at Arsenal and the latter years under Wenger where he should have been making the transition from player to coach, it reflects badly on us too. Maybe Tony could have learned a few things from Arsene and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Just like the kids that have been developed badly at Arsenal, were looking at the other side of the spectrum in terms of former players not learning from Wenger when it comes to coaching.
Don't see how it's Wenger's role to develop players into future coaches or managers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I think we know that Wenger is not a good coach. However I'm not sure id blame him for Adams lack of development as a coach. Adams may have a lot of knowledge of how to make a side well drilled through his experience as a defender and working under George Graham, but the guy is by his own admission damaged psychologically from his alcoholism and especially somewhere like Granada it's going to be very hard for someone like Adams to relay his wishes and feelings to his players.
I know people that knew Adams personally and that he was very changeable now that was partly as a result of the drink but even after getting on the wagon, he could become very withdrawn and sullen (honestly not trying to get at Adams, but even after 20 years the guy still has a lot of demons).
For what it's worth, I think Adams observations are mostly if not entirely correct and tally in with what other people have said about Wenger, but at the same time it was Wenger who stabilised Adams after he kicked the booze and was in a negative spiral and extended his career (Adams himself acknowledged this).
I don't think Tony Adams is blaming Wenger for his own shortcomings as a coach either, I think he's saying that it wouldn't work because Adams would speak his mind if he saw something wrong.
That's a shortsighted way to look it. It's why we're in the position we're in now. Knowledge should be passed on in football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It's not why we're in the position we are now. We're in this position because our manager has stayed too long and has too much power at the club.
If it's true than plenty of managers are guilty of itQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Alex Ferguson especially. None of his guys Keane, Bruce, Giggs, Neville have made it that sucessfully as managers.
Again, very short-sighted. The debates we’ve had here about the culture of the club, the lack of leadership we see on the pitch and around the club stems from the club being filled with non-confrontational yes man. Wenger has always been Wenger, but once the big characters left the club, he was left exposed and I believe we should have retained some of those players and not have been so quick to shove them out the door with 1 year contracts once their bodies started to slow down. They still had something to offer this club and we had plenty of former players willing to take that on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Once Wenger goes, it looks like that footballing knowledge goes with him. Is that called a knowledge vacuum? This is why people are so uneasy with Kroenke being left in charge. The football culture has slowly been drained away from the club. If we were looking to Ajax, Bayern and Barca as model examples when starting this Emirates project, we’ve gone about it in the wrong way. Former players have a strong presence at those clubs. What will Wenger leave behind? It’s not just the lack of silverware that has people bitter about the legacy he leaves.
This isn’t an argument about success. It’s about passing down knowledge to your players and being a mentor. Fergie didn’t create a successor for Man Utd but passed on his knowledge. What’s disturbing to me is the way Wenger seems so resistant to embracing former players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Adams was a great Captain. I still remember vividly Ray Parlour's otherwise excellent debut where he nearly burst into tears when giving away a penalty at Anfield. Adams was there for him, as he was there for Beckham against Argentina when the rest of the team, coaches and pretty much the entire nation turned against him.
However, his record as a coach and the general impression he gives, in no way suggests he has anything to offer in a coaching role.
Also, his first autobiography was as boring. Boring as shit. Too bad he has to pump this one up by throwing the man who guided him to unparalleled success towards the end of his career under the bus.
Chesney's take on it as he contemplates the horror of soon being back under Wenger's "expert" tutelage.
Quote:
The biggest thing I have taken away from these two years at Roma is the fact I grew as a goalkeeper. It’s just raising your levels, your standards. I absorbed a bigger knowledge of football, the tactical side of the game.
I remember that game, Parlour looked a reall energetic prospect but then gave away a penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
As for the other part, Adams/Bergkamp and co ensured unparalled success for Wenger, their leadership, discipline on the field was passed on from one team to another, once that was lost we've seen what happens, it wasn't a one way relationship. Adam/Bergkamp and co were successes before Wenger arrived.
At the end of the day he's entitled an opinion, lots of former players have come out and spoken about Wengers flaws, he's an incomplete manager who requires players to do important part of a managers job for him, he's more of an economist/football manager, which makes it ever stranger that he doesn't value leadership, he's a man who fails to acknowledge his limitations, arrogance of the highest order.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Totally agree. Worse still he is addicted to power. Even now at almost 70 he cant see what time it is
Quote:
The biggest thing I have taken away from these two years at Roma is the fact I grew as a goalkeeper. It’s just raising your levels, your standards. I absorbed a bigger knowledge of football, the tactical side of the game.
Only just seen this post/those quotes NQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Sad but hardly surprising. Chesney isn't the first player to come out with statements like this, IIRC Cesc said something similar regarding his time at Barca and now Chelsea. He basically said that we don't really study or develop when it comes to the tactical side of the game at Arsenal, it's all technical work.
Rumours that L'Massive Loon is going to start Ospina rather than Cech in the final. Would make perfect sense to Le Bumbling Idiot. Cech is on great form so bench him, especially as we have lost two key defenders too.
Maybe sell Bellerin before the game?
Wenger's poisonous attitude summed up. We don't need the CL now because we get more money from elsewhere. Here it is, from his own trap.
It's all about the money with him. Has been for a long time (read that however you want to).Quote:
'Because today the television money makes the weight of the television money much weaker but at the time it was absolutely needed so that was for me the biggest period of pressure between 2006 and 2014,'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...riod-life.html
Stadium payments were £15m to £20m a year according to Wenger. How much were we getting from CL money and generating from the stadium along with player sales?
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...r-stadium-debt
Yeah he also thinks the television money makes the weight of television money much weaker! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
But yeah sums him up, always changes the rules to suit his agenda.
No he means the tv money from the sky and BT deals make not getting in the champions league less of a blow to the club financially and in that respect he's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Don't get me wrong I think it's deplorable that he's essentially boasting that he's under no pressure, and that the only pressure he was under for years was to get top four (although undeniably in some seasons in that time, it was a big achievement).
Let's be fair he's hardly the only manager to change the goalposts to turn underachievement into success. Certain diminutive Portugese gentleman did that this season.
But yeah the guy is essentially saying I delivered for the club for years, so they owe me.
FFS! Will you stop breaking my irony-meters :angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
For all of Wenger's faults and he has plenty of them he absolutely delivered today. He got the tactics spot on, I felt we dominated in every area and if it wasn't for poor finishing we would have won by 2 or 3 goals.
I truly hope this is it for Wenger now and he is going out on a high, obviously I want whoever takes over from him to be top class but I feel now is definitely the time for him to say goodbye.
Ultimately, this is why Wenger is no longer good enough. It takes him until our season is dead in the water to make the changes required to rejuvenate the team. Happens every season when we're struggling, we can't keep being left thinking; why the hell couldn't we find that courage and fight earlier in the season?
I hope he calls it a day but I think it's obvious he's staying on.
He's delivered a trophy and that's what any fan would want. Some excellence, in some respect. Facing up to a challenge and reaching the top of the pile. It's not the biggest trophy, it's the third biggest. But it's bigger than that ridiculous 4th Place Super Trophy. I've been talking to spuds today and they are trying to celebrate the 2nd Place World Cup Euro Olympic Champions Trophy. I'm not buying, because it's as pathetic as us taking selfies after coming 4th.
So Wenger has done good today and he deserves credit for that. I still want him to go and he still drives me into berserker rages when he opens his mouth and starts blaming the fans. But if he's staying, and it's 99% sure he will, then I hope he savours what it feels like to win and then ditch his fucked up penny pinching and holier than though philosophy and really engage with this league and the challenge and go all out to win it next season. Fuck it. Spend big keeping Alexis and Ozil and Ox here. And then spend big some more bringing in the extra quality we need. Just fucking do it. The fans love the trophies, they don't celebrate the balance sheet and tell tales about how we generated record returns on investments. We aren't cheering for prudence today, we're cheering because there's silver in the cabinet and we played fucking well and we beat the PL champions and we broke some records and it was fun to experience. Let's get the priorities right.
If he stays and, let's face it, he will, then we have to push on and have a proper title challenge next year.
He is the reason we expect to be up there challenging every year and he is the reason we've failed to.
But some credit where it's due, 3 FA Cups in 4 years is an impressive record.
Pleased for Wenger that he's now got the outright record and we do as a club, he deserves this.
It would be nice for him to go out on this high, the risk is he will stay and he'll lose any good will this win has bought him if things go wrong next season.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40069681
I don't know if he's staying for sure. Above interview was before the game. He said he won't forget the way he's been treated and that it's a disgrace. When questioned at the end of the game about his future he ducked the question. He didn't come out and say he wanted to stay. Maybe he wanted to avoid giving away more headlines but the past couple of interviews from Wenger has only muddied the waters.
Also, a lot of people said he lost the dressing room. What could he have said to get them back fighting?
It's not clear for me. But we'll find out next week.
I do think some of the treatment of him has been pretty disgraceful, the level of disrespect and abuse he gets on here is out of order IMO.
He's delivered 3 trophies in 4 seasons - and OK, the FA Cup has lost some of its lustre but can people please stop pretending they don't care about it, the reaction on here again shows they do. He's failed to challenge for the biggest trophies and that's why he should go but he's not been the catastrophic failure some people make out.
No he doesn't deserve the level of abuse he's got over the past year but by the same token he's come across as very arrogant. He's fallen short of his own criteria this year and deserves to be called out on that.
His record in the FA Cup is unmatched and his legacy is secure, however this is as good as it's going to get with him. It's enough for some but it's easy to see why we people think we have so much more potential that's just waiting to be tapped into by a better coach.
Complaining about not winning or even challenging the for the league is not disgraceful. Being humiliated 10-2 by Bayern or 15-3 in 3 matches . Now thats disgraceful!. The problem with Wenger is that he is too comfortable. It took all these so called insults to get him to buck up his ideas. Even his players admit that they are not properly prepared for games. Too much of that laissez-faire attitude is what perennially costs us the league. 1 stupid performance at the start of the season is ultimately what cost us his 4th place title. I knew it wouldnt take much for you to start crooning about him again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Bottom line...and we have seen it over and over again. If he gets a new contract he will go back to his idiosyncratic ways, buying players that he likes, rather than he needs and losing quality every season because no top player wants to stay for his never ending quest for personal validation instead of trophies. We are in the Europa next season. As a shit Utd have shown, any decent team can win that. Can Wenger do it? or will it be another, "lets give him the benefit of the doubt, he will improve next season"
This game has shown that the problem with this team is not so much quality as attitude. Next season when playing the likes of Southampton or Crystal Palace, they should play like this and not stink the place out.
Everything of course depends on Sanchez. If he does not see the FA cup as a mark of progress, we will be at least 40% less a team without him.