This Weekend's Fixtures & Midwek Fixtures (29/30 Nov/01/03/04/05 Dec)

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Apart from anything else after 13 games it’s not actually all that impressive…

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I am also looking at the wider context of them winning every game in the CL too. Winning 18 games out of 20 isn't to be dismissed lightly.

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Saying I think being 9 points clear flatters them a bit

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There's two things about that. Firstly you're claiming they've been a bit fortunate in some games. I can believe that, but I don't believe that winning 18 out of 20 games in all competitions at the start of a season can just be luck - I know that's not what you're claiming but even if they have got a bit lucky on occasions, there does seem to be more about Liverpool than I expected pre-season. And secondly I do think it's fair to say that the size of the gap is in part because of us dropping some silly points. Had we not done so we'd be closer.

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I think they are being overhyped for winning games that largely in the course of a season they’d be expected to win and that they haven’t properly been tested yet and we will see where they are when they are. Isn’t even miles removed from how I’d have assessed Arsenal two years ago and yet I’m being stubborn and harsh.
No…I’m just not prepared to jump the gun like everyone else is. And you read it like I’m saying “oh they are shit, they are Only where they are because they’ve fluked it”

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The thing I'm surprised about is you don't seem to have changed your pre-season stance an inch, before the season started you said:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Liverpool aren’t going to do anything. They only challenged last season because Klopp was by some way the best manager in the league. This Dutch guy won the league with Feyenoord season before last, I’d be surprised if they finish top four to be honest. Unless we fuck up badly, it’s going to be us and City making up the top two

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You surely can't stand by that, even if you think Liverpool have got a bit fortunate here and there and are in a false position because of their easier fixtures. And regarding the second point, I did a bit of fairly crude analysis and I think objectively we have had the harder start. I had a look at the average league position of the teams we've played - I used last season's finishing positions and put in 21 for a promoted side.

At home the average league position of the teams Liverpool have played is 9.57, ours is 14.5 - we have played two of the promoted sides, so at home I'd say they've had harder games, but they have had home advantage of course. Away though the average for them is 12.67 and ours is 6.29 - they've travelled to two of the promoted sides and other than Arsenal they've not played anyone in last season's top 6. We've already had to go away to 4 of the teams in last season's top 6 and we've also played Newcastle who finished 7th. So there is clearly hope if we can go on a run.

Guess what? I don’t care what Liverpool is doing in any other competition right now, because it has no direct impact on us. And more so it has no relevance to the discussion. We are talking about Liverpool and their current league position in the Premier League, not how they are doing in the Champions League and not how they are doing in the league cup.


As for my prediction involving the three clubs Liverpool, City and Us earlier, that’s clearly been endangered to Panda levels by City’s drop off. I wouldn’t rule it out entirely but yeah that particular prediction probably doesn’t stand up.


But I’d say to you what I said in reply to Mac earlier, if Klopp was still in charge of this team and nine points clear I’d be no where near as bullish. I don’t think the football is as good as it was under Klopp, and I think when Klopp’s teams went on a run the pace and power meant that they could intimidate sides and you would think where is the next dropped points coming from. I don’t feel the same with this bald guy, I think whilst he’s sensibly trying largely to keep to the Klopp formula, his languid style creeps in

Also don’t be stubborn, if you have time to look up statistics you have time to watch matches. Match of the Day is on IPlayer…watch the four games I have cited and tell me if you still think I’m being uncharitable.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Guess what? I don’t care what Liverpool is doing in any other competition right now, because it has no direct impact on us. And more so it has no relevance to the discussion. We are talking about Liverpool and their current league position in the Premier League, not how they are doing in the Champions League and not how they are doing in the league cup.

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I think it's relevant as it speaks to their level and whether it's where I expected it to be pre-season. I scoffed at the thought that they'd either seriously challenge us or City but here we are, clear at the top of the table and top of the CL "table" too. It's certainly possible they won't sustain this run - probable, even. We agree they have tougher tests to come. Whether we can go on a run good enough to capitalise remains to be seen. A game we should be winning tomorrow but with the new manager effect it's a definite banana skin.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think it's relevant as it speaks to their level and whether it's where I expected it to be pre-season. I scoffed at the thought that they'd either seriously challenge us or City but here we are, clear at the top of the table and top of the CL "table" too. It's certainly possible they won't sustain this run - probable, even. We agree they have tougher tests to come. Whether we can go on a run good enough to capitalise remains to be seen. A game we should be winning tomorrow but with the new manager effect it's a definite banana skin.

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But it’s not that relevant at all, because the two things don’t always correspond. Teams can do well in Europe but terrible in the league (like us in 2005-2006 and of course Liverpool the previous season) and also Liverpool have historical pedigree in Europe. I don’t think one informs the other.

I can see how it’s relevant to you, because you don’t want to let go and you need it to bolster whatever you think your argument is now.

Anyway basically we have easier games than Liverpool between now and December 31st, and at our best we are better than them….so I’m relatively hopeful of eating into that lead….and to be clear in a way I wouldn’t be if a) we were chasing Man City at their apex and b) I wouldn’t be if Klopp was managing Liverpool still

Vardy has put Van Thoroughbred’s Leicester City ahead against the Ammers

3-1 in the end. Fullkrug gets his first league goal for West Ham. Assuming he’s been out injured ?

Southampton 0-1 Chelsea, Disasi.

Man City 1-0 Forest, Bernardo Silva.

Southampton 1-1 Chelsea, Aribo!

Mac Allister hits the post!