Board meeting on Tuesday. At least we should know once and for all what he's doing this week.
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Board meeting on Tuesday. At least we should know once and for all what he's doing this week.
Journo's saying they think wenger is off because he never keeps his medals and he said he's keeping this one.
Think they're thinking too deeply about it tbh... he's had the more pressurised season of his life, he probably wants to keep this one as a middle finger to all the doubters.
He won't leave... stan will have to ok it and he only flies over a few times a year and was there yesterday. He saw us lift a trophy, fans singing his name and the team put in an incredible performance. To him it's probably all rosy.
If that's all he sees his judgement will be skewed... so why would he ask wenger to go? Nah
Disgraceful? If he decides to leave Arsenal and move on to a bigger club, I can't imagine another set of fans being this patient or restrained.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It's a football forum, I think some of the criticism of Wenger is indicative of emotional reactionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
But disgraceful?. It's like on Twitter when I ask people what's disgraceful about the people who Want Wenger out and all they can point to is an example of someone who might have said I hope Wenger dies, now that is disgraceful but you don't get anyone saying it on here.
I think a lot of what Zim says borders on the absurd, but nothing he says is disgraceful because Wenger isn't some God like figure and questioning his competence isn't akin to blasphemy.
I don't personally want him hounded out because I think that would be an awful way for his time at Arsenal to end, but he's been given a perfect oportunity to leave on a high now but he won't take it simply because he's scared of not being in management.
I think this overly sensitive and overwrought response to, how dare people treat this man so disrespectfully. It's the culture of the club that has made him and certain fans think he deserves this degree of reverence, a reverence which would not be afforded any other manager in the game with the possible exception of Alex Ferguson.
If he was so wounded by what was being said he wouldn't even think about staying.
You'll always find idiots at either end of the spectrum. It's best to just ignore them and actually converse with people who have something legitimate to say for themselves and to not let the morons muddy the waters with "WOB" and "AKB" nonsense.
Sometimes I think without the platform of the internet football would have a much more rational and sane following.
When Wenger blames the fans for his own fuck-ups, which he does regularly, then he's going to get a bucket of shit thrown back at him. That's natural and totally acceptable. If he doesn't like it, then don't start it by talking shit about the fans.
No, if anything the Internet has toned it all down by allowing social martyrs to congregate around anything that isn't politically correct. Football today is a dinner party compared to the howling, screaming, fist throwing atmosphere of the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Patient? Restrained? Do you read the posts on here?! It's that sort of thing I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
No, it isn't. I didn't say it was, it's the level of abuse he's got on places like this that I've always found distasteful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
And where have I done that? I don't know how to talk to someone who thinks that me thinking that the abuse on here has been OTT is me "crooning" about himQuote:
I knew it wouldnt take much for you to start crooning about him again.
I've said consistently that I hope he leaves with one final FA Cup. I am still of that opinion. I repeated it above. He HAS failed to challenge for the biggest trophies and with our squad and resources that isn't good enough, but I don't think people should be calling him a **** every 5 minutes.
Have you been reading what Wenger has been saying about the fans? What does he expect? He needs to take some responsibility. He's been given fair credit for the win yesterday and the new records he's set, but he also needs to own the other stuff too and not be looking to palm that off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Well, he's said that it's been hard at times playing in a hostile atmosphere - obviously true, but it has to be acknowledged that our and his ineptitude at time caused that atmosphere.
And he's saying now he thinks the level of disrespect has been disgraceful - I agree with that.
We've failed to challenge for the biggest prizes but he's won 3 FA Cups in 4 seasons, it's not been all bad and I think the level of criticism has been OTT at times.
Again the term OTT is your opinion and I don't agree but your entitled to it
Disgraceful? Please evidence what you find disgraceful. Whether I agree with everything that is said is one thing but there aren't any heavily personal comments about the guy, it's all directed at how he does his job.
What I find disgraceful is eight defeats in eighteen league games and four defeats in a row away from home, with two 5-1 drubbings to Bayern Munich to boot.
The FA cup is without doubt a nice trophy to win, and I haven't seen any Chelsea fan even pretend not to care that they lost yesterday. But there is something fundamentally very wrong with the way Wenger is managing the club. And what's abundantly clear is that he has far too much power for one man, and seems to resent the club trying to check his power.....that can't end well.
The run from late January to April really made you wonder if he'd lost the dressing room and whether wholesale changes were needed to playing personnel
Whatever happens on Tuesday there needs to be an inquest about what happened for about three months, and Wenger blaming other people for uncertainty over his future as well as the fans is simply not acceptable.
Come on. There has been loads of stuff like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
You're saying that isn't personal? There's been talk about how he doesn't love the club, is only in it for the money or to protect the board. Some of it has been pretty personal about his character.Quote:
No leaders, because they are a threat to the Mighty CUNT Wenger, no hope, because the inspirational CUNT Wenger smashed that years ago. We all know what happens when a Wenger inspired team with Wenger spirit comes up against a half decent opponent, or even a well organised pub outfit. Wenger has not only destroyed this club, he's destroyed each individual in it. He's a fucking cancer. Virulent. Remorseless. Everything he toucthes turns to shit.
And I agree, our results at times have been pretty disgraceful given our squad and resources. It seems something has gone on in the club this year, one day I'm sure we'll read his autobiography and maybe that will reveal more.
I have consistently said I still think Wenger should go. He has failed to challenge for the biggest prizes - I could forgive that when the stadium repayments were hampering us but we're past that now and while the FA Cups have been nice we have repeatedly failed in the PL and CL. I hope he goes now on his own terms with 3 FA Cups in 4 years which surely seal his legacy as our best ever manager. If he doesn't and we fail AGAIN to challenge in the PL then on his own head be it.
Again over the top but not disgraceful
I don't think he's motivated by money either but to question whether that is a motivation when it appears at time he's not doing everything in his power to push the club on is not an unfair statement.
Plus like I say this is a message board, I don't think you can expect the kind of high brow discourse all the time sometimes it's a good vent for frustration...and there is no one more frustrating than Arsene Wenger. The FA cup yesterday was frustrating, because it's like if you are capable of playing like that, what the fuck has been wrong with you the rest of the season?
Are you saying Wenger has been scanning forums and Twitter? Don't talk shit.
What he means by "disgraceful" is fans holding up banners and directing lasers onto building, or flying planes above the stadium. Wenger is 100% detached from the fans, you can easily tell that from the shit he talks about them. And it's THAT shit which he is shovelling that has caused people to lose all respect for him. Wenger started this, not the fans. The real issue here is his total refusal to take responsibility for his ongoing fuck-ups and his disgusting tendency to blame the fans for his own failings.
It's beyond belief you (or anyone) would fall into his little sob story after another season where his team got annihilated in both major competitions. Not just beaten, but annihilated. Total, utter failure. And what has he said? The fans are to blame and it's disgraceful that people are pissed at him after all these seasons of him fucking up.
Give me a break.
This guy needs to go right now, while he has somehow managed to salvage an ounce of credibility. But he won't go. So this is all going to get a whole lot worse and it is 100% his fault.
That sounds like me, but just in case it isn't, I agree with it 100%Quote:
No leaders, because they are a threat to the Mighty CUNT Wenger, no hope, because the inspirational CUNT Wenger smashed that years ago. We all know what happens when a Wenger inspired team with Wenger spirit comes up against a half decent opponent, or even a well organised pub outfit. Wenger has not only destroyed this club, he's destroyed each individual in it. He's a fucking cancer. Virulent. Remorseless. Everything he toucthes turns to shit.
I spent maybe 5 years avoiding calling him a cunt. But as soon as he started with his fan shite, he became a cunt. And so I now address him by his proper title.
Some people take the last 7-10 years of continuous disappointment and failures far more personally than maybe, they should.
Maybe you should take it with more of a pinch of salt though letters? People are entitled to have their say, and say what they like.
Maybe you shouldn't take it so personally yourself.
He's been defending Wenger all along. His tactic is to say, I agree he should go, and then he dives in and starts on anyone who says he should go. Covers his arse and then sticks his tongue right up Wenger's hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
For what it's worth, I think you're all cunts.
I must admit, when I read his post I though I'd accidentally stumbled into a thread from a couple of years ago, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Letters can't help himself, just when we thought he was with us, he reverts to type.
Typical wengerite tbh
Perfectly fair comment which I have no problem with. It's only if you said, you're a cunt and then sent me a PM saying fancy a dinner and a fuck? Then I'd think you were two faced.Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
I'd probably still fuck you for a decent dinner, of course, but that's besides the main point.
The things is, just about EVERYONE is on here saying well done Wenger, good win, we're buzzing. It can be left at that for a few days. Instead, it's not the Wenger out "moaners" who cause the conflict, but the Wenger worshipping twats who want to open up temporarily closed wounds and start applying salt. Not even the weekend could go by without having to put up with their bullshit. And that applies to Wenger himself. Yes I know he's being questioned (finally) by the media, but why not shut the fuck up about the whole thing for a few days and let the fans enjoy their crumb of consolation? Why doesn't Wenger and his disciples just shut the fuck up for a few minutes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Define decent dinnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I hope you set your self worth higher than a KFC mega bucket
Sure. As am I. And I think the level of abuse he's got on here is over the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
He does not read GW. He's talking about what he's seen at the stadium and maybe what he's heard papers report from AFTV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
OK. And I'm talking about what I see on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
The last page of posts is why this place is so rubbish and decent debate is next to impossible. I have consistently said Wenger needs to go regardless of the Cup Final result. Said it before the game, said it since. He has failed to challenge for the biggest prizes and with our resources that isn't good enough. But wanting him out isn't enough now. because I think posts like this:
Are over the top, I now apparently think "Wenger has been scanning forums and Twitter". (Didn't say or imply that).Quote:
No leaders, because they are a threat to the Mighty CUNT Wenger, no hope, because the inspirational CUNT Wenger smashed that years ago. We all know what happens when a Wenger inspired team with Wenger spirit comes up against a half decent opponent, or even a well organised pub outfit. Wenger has not only destroyed this club, he's destroyed each individual in it. He's a fucking cancer. Virulent. Remorseless. Everything he toucthes turns to shit.
I "dive in and starts on anyone who says he should go." (No, all I said is things like the above are OTT which it clearly is)
I "stick [my] tongue right up Wenger's hole". (Not quite sure how saying posts like the above are OTT is doing that, but OK)
I'm "reverting to type" and am a "Wengerite". (I don't even know what that means).
And I'm a "Wenger worshipping twat". Again, I just said I think posts like the above are OTT.
I agree with HCZ that you're not going to get much high brow discourse on here but people surely have the ability to have more nuanced views than the only two possible opinions are either that Wenger is a...all the things mentioned in the post I've quoted above or he's the best manager ever, a brilliant human being and I'd have children with him if I could. Do people really think those are the only two possible positions and if I don't think the former then I must think the latter?
It's pretty pathetic tbh.
Letters - if Wenger leaves, will he be treated better by other fans when he's on a losing streak? Are we the exception? If he thinks we've been disgraceful and you agree, is there anywhere else he can go where the grass is greener?
Well, I think the level of abuse has been because of repeated failings - it has built up over time - and frustrations from the fans about their inability to do anything about the situation. So the grass would be greener at a lot of clubs at least initially because new managers always get a certain grace period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
But I still think the level of abuse on here has been OTT. Amazingly it is possible to simultaneously think that and also think Wenger should leave.
Its football though, it comes with the territory and as I have said on here before, there are a huge hunk of people that are a bit more blasé with how they throw about some words and don't actually mean them with as much vitriol as they are intended. Its just sounding off after being wound up for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Also, he really hasn't had anywhere near the level of abuse that some managers get but he has brought all of it on himself through his own blind arrogance.
FFS mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Its a bloody football forum!
I think we have all had some brilliantly fascinating and interesting debates on here over the years - but there is really nothing left to debate to a high level as we have spent the last 5 years going round in circles and discussing the same things.
Until we see major changes at the club we are all resided to the fact that we will see the same results.
People digging you out (whilst probably justified ;)) is just for a laugh and a bit of fun to alleviate the immense sense of dissatisfaction, anger, disappointment & inevitability that we are all feeling under the latter part of the Wenger era.
We have been there, done that and worn the T shirt.
Up until recently, Wenger has had it pretty easy from us fans tbh. Other fans rip their failing managers to shreds to the point that they actually get sent death threats to force them out. A bit of nasty vitriol on a forum is hardly the same thing. What has made it worse now, is that even in the face of defeat & at the point where he should do the right thing and walk away - he is commenting on & trying to blame us fans for his failure.
IMO most of the comments on here is more banter and 'tongue in cheek' despite what we all want, & sometimes I think you are being a bit too precious
- but I'm sorry to say that for Wenger now (and going forward if he stays).... the gloves are off, anything goes.
A lot of it has been brought on by himself and actually I don't think protests in the ground have been over the top or disrespectful. Hiring planes with banners is a bit much!
It's just on here it's got more and more extreme. Yes, football is an emotional business so I understand the frustration but it has got OTT. It's pretty tiresome that I can't say so without then being called a Wengerite (whatever that means) and all the other nonsense in the last page or so of posts.
Why not try and give yourself some comfort that at least it is being spouted on here and not at the emirates & in the stands.
We are all pissed off but at least we have done it in a respectable way, when & where it matters :good:
Don't take it to heart so much Letters, there's a fairly broad scope of fans on GW and everyone has there own ideas of what is acceptable to be said about Wenger - it's not about you :hug:
(Wengerite = someone who follows wenger no matter what. other synonyms: AKB's, Ty) see, its just for laugh :)
Hmm. But Ty is a moran. He really IS a Wengerite. And I think you'll find a WOB is the opposite of a Wengerite - isn't it the Wenger Out Brigade which I guess I am now a member of.
NQ implied above that I'm lying about that. I really don't know why I would bother do so. Does he think I'm trying to infiltrate the WOBs to take them down from the inside? :lol:
Sign da Ting
Wengerite! Stone him! He's licking Wenger's (admittedly tasty) hole. Booooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
Am I doing this right?
Why did you even bring it up at all? We were all here celebrating the win. I put up a post about this when one of those media twats tried to spoil the day by going on about the negatives. "I agree with Wenger", I said - that media twat should fuck off, leave it alone for a day. You agreed. So what changed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Wenger himself decided he'd open up the whole issue with his "poor me" ramblings and you jumped on that and said you agreed with him. That's after you agreed with the whole fucking thing being dropped so we could celebrate a cup win.
Then you changed your story again when people reminded you how little disrespect, relatively speaking, Wenger has actually suffered. It went from what Wenger perceives as disrespect, which certainly would not involve reading GW and backwater Twitter feeds, to you highlighting the disrespect being shown on this particular forum. What does that have to do with what Wenger was moaning about? Nothing. It's just you shifting the goalposts.
You always seem to want to be the reasonable, rational, moderate guy who agrees with both sides of every debate. Fine, there's nothing wrong with reasonable and rational, but only when there's some sort of context. Rationality is irrelevant when it is not applied in context. It can't exist in a vacuum, like some social prize that is tangible in its own right. In truth, Wenger moaning about the fans is neither reasonable nor rational. What it is is totally unreasonable and entirely irrational when taken in the context of the season we have just witnessed, let alone all the other seasons that have gone before. He's talking shit. And even with him talking shit, it was left. So we could celebrate a cup win. Left until you dived in and dug it all up. When you got slapped back for shitting in the middle of the celebrations you then threw up your hands in exasperation and said, look at these people - so unreasonable, so irrational.
No, the general consensus appears to suggest you're being a complete arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I didn't. PnG posted a BBC link about Wenger's views on his treatment from the fans. I simply replied to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn