Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again this is the problem, any attempt to say money is clearly a massive determining factor is seen as a defence of Wenger it clearly isn't

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You have to look at this logically. If we are spending annually 90-95% of what our opponents are spending.....and accruing money in the bank. You can hardly claim poverty. When the Spuds are spending 65% of what we spend to more or less keep pace with us, then all arguments about money and success should be relegated as secondary. Overall of course buying, better, more expensive players gives a better chance of positive placings, but it offers no guarantee. Chelsea outspent us the season Leiceter won the league and they finished 8th or something. We would like to see Arsenal do a Leicester sometime in our lifetime, but honestly can you see that ever happening if Wenger stays

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

. We would like to see Arsenal do a Leicester sometime in our lifetime, but honestly can you see that ever happening if Wenger stays

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It's funny how you quote my post but clearly don't read it. I think Wenger has to go obviously.....yes you only have to look at the wage bill difference between Arsenal and Man United/Man City and it's pretty much on par.,

But these three clubs have been able to regularly spend money on top quality, the tv money hasn't helped us it's made it more difficult because it's not feasible for us to spend 60million on a player because of the wages as well, where as these three clubs don't need to worry about being self-sustaining (well Man United do but they have that obscene Addidas deal)

We just won't be able to bring in a Griezmann or a Pogba or a Aubemeyang that's not feasible, those other three clubs can whether they qualify for the champions league or not.....that's not a defence of Wenger. It's an acceptance that 90% of the time the title will be divied up between these clubs that's just a sad fact and it's a fact that makes me fed up of football.

But yes of course in order to profit in the remaining 10% of the time we need a better manager than Wenger of course.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think my point is that even with Wenger gone we simply aren't going to go toe to toe with Chelsea or Man City or United every season, we just won't

Some seasons we will come close but ultimate their squad depth and quality will get them over the line, and some seasons we will struggle to make it into the champions league or even fail to qualify simply because of the spending of sides around us like Liverpool and Tottenham will increase.

I would hope the difference is, is the end to the embarrassing defeats the 8-2's, the 6-0's etc, the 10-2 agg drubbings.

That when we do qualify for the champions league we make it count and get as far as possible

That if the likes of chelsea, city or united have off seasons we are able to take advantage (because 90% of the time the title will be shared out between those three clubs)

We aren't even with a top manager going to start winning multiple titles or winning the champions league that seems unrealistic, the champions league seems closed off between bayern, real madrid and barcelona and arguably even bayern are shut out of that equation.

It doesn't in anyway excuse Wenger, but football has been totally poisoned by money

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I don't think the chavs are that great. They are solid, better than the rest who are themselves pretty ordinary. Especially the gypos. For the money poured into them they are horribly ordinary, although Guardiola will sort that out over time. Liverpool? Utd? Hot and cold. The real worry is the spuds. That bastard Poch is doing a great job, when is he going to be poached? The spuds are starting to show you can properly compete despite the budget deficit. The money is a big factor. But a smart manager, dedicated players, a bit of ambition and it goes a long way to making up the gap. I don't think the spuds are there yet, but I don't see why we shouldn't be able to land a half decent manager and start getting rid of the handicaps insisted on by Wenger for so long. I expect to see a very big bump for the better when the new manager comes in. It would be very strange were that not the case given Wenger's crippling limitations. There is a hell of a lot of potential in our squad that Wenger has no clue how to unlock. And, as you say, correct some of the outright ridiculous shit such as the traditional hammerings and the lack of attention to the basics of the game and I see us improving on many fronts. We'd have to bring in a real idiot to go backwards. Which is why Wenger should be nowhere near the decision making process. Then again, who does that leave? Gazidis? Dear me.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's funny how you quote my post but clearly don't read it. I think Wenger has to go obviously.....yes you only have to look at the wage bill difference between Arsenal and Man United/Man City and it's pretty much on par.,

But these three clubs have been able to regularly spend money on top quality, the tv money hasn't helped us it's made it more difficult because it's not feasible for us to spend 60million on a player because of the wages as well, where as these three clubs don't need to worry about being self-sustaining (well Man United do but they have that obscene Addidas deal)

We just won't be able to bring in a Griezmann or a Pogba or a Aubemeyang that's not feasible, those other three clubs can whether they qualify for the champions league or not.....that's not a defence of Wenger. It's an acceptance that 90% of the time the title will be divied up between these clubs that's just a sad fact and it's a fact that makes me fed up of football.

But yes of course in order to profit in the remaining 10% of the time we need a better manager than Wenger of course.

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What are the wages attached to the 90 mill of signings last window? Pretty high I'll bet considering we seem to pay way too much to second tier players and then refuse to spend what is needed to retain real stars. I think we certainly could have spent 60 mill plus the wages. The trouble is, Wenger has no strategy. What's wrong with one premium signing a season? Build the results as the team slowly improves and with the results comes the money to fund the next round. Much better than our current scattergun approach. We're not even playing Peres. Chambers has gone missing. Wilshere's string of big pay rises came to nothing, we kept Diaby on 70k for how long? Wenger just isn't very good in the transfer market.

I just want to go into big games not knowing what the outcome is, having my palms sweaty before the game because it could go either way. I am sick of knowing almost with 100% certainty how our games against the big guys are going to be like. There have been a few outliers like the win against Barcelona at home, against City away and Chelsea this season which does make me sit up and take notice but you know that these victories are more anomalies than the norm.

Frankly, I just want to get excited about the club again.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's funny how you quote my post but clearly don't read it. I think Wenger has to go obviously.....yes you only have to look at the wage bill difference between Arsenal and Man United/Man City and it's pretty much on par.,

But these three clubs have been able to regularly spend money on top quality, the tv money hasn't helped us it's made it more difficult because it's not feasible for us to spend 60million on a player because of the wages as well, where as these three clubs don't need to worry about being self-sustaining (well Man United do but they have that obscene Addidas deal)

We just won't be able to bring in a Griezmann or a Pogba or a Aubemeyang that's not feasible, those other three clubs can whether they qualify for the champions league or not.....that's not a defence of Wenger. It's an acceptance that 90% of the time the title will be divied up between these clubs that's just a sad fact and it's a fact that makes me fed up of football.

But yes of course in order to profit in the remaining 10% of the time we need a better manager than Wenger of course.

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We could buy the players you mention with the cash in the bank,but that is another issue. the real issue, is they would never come. After our player debacles going back to Fabregas. No ambitious players will ever come. We have become a cautionary tale.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I don't think the chavs are that great. They are solid, better than the rest who are themselves pretty ordinary. Especially the gypos. For the money poured into them they are horribly ordinary, although Guardiola will sort that out over time. Liverpool? Utd? Hot and cold. The real worry is the spuds. That bastard Poch is doing a great job, when is he going to be poached? The spuds are starting to show you can properly compete despite the budget deficit. The money is a big factor. But a smart manager, dedicated players, a bit of ambition and it goes a long way to making up the gap. I don't think the spuds are there yet, but I don't see why we shouldn't be able to land a half decent manager and start getting rid of the handicaps insisted on by Wenger for so long. I expect to see a very big bump for the better when the new manager comes in. It would be very strange were that not the case given Wenger's crippling limitations. There is a hell of a lot of potential in our squad that Wenger has no clue how to unlock. And, as you say, correct some of the outright ridiculous shit such as the traditional hammerings and the lack of attention to the basics of the game and I see us improving on many fronts. We'd have to bring in a real idiot to go backwards. Which is why Wenger should be nowhere near the decision making process. Then again, who does that leave? Gazidis? Dear me.

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Again yes it will make a difference, i just don't think it will be the epoch making difference we are all expecting

Yes a top manager will make us better to watch, we won't choke against top sides etc. But to dislodge the fact that 90% of the time the title will be won by united, chelsea and city?.....i don't see it.

Chelsea aren't that great, but they have dropped 15 points this season they win when they need to and that is a combination of a good manager and the fruits of sustained spending.

United and City will get where they need to be because the amount of money they have spunked into their squads, and i say when they need to they will get the cheque book out and get the type of players that are beyond us to sign.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think my point is that even with Wenger gone we simply aren't going to go toe to toe with Chelsea or Man City or United every season, we just won't

Some seasons we will come close but ultimate their squad depth and quality will get them over the line, and some seasons we will struggle to make it into the champions league or even fail to qualify simply because of the spending of sides around us like Liverpool and Tottenham will increase.

I would hope the difference is, is the end to the embarrassing defeats the 8-2's, the 6-0's etc, the 10-2 agg drubbings.

That when we do qualify for the champions league we make it count and get as far as possible

That if the likes of chelsea, city or united have off seasons we are able to take advantage (because 90% of the time the title will be shared out between those three clubs)

We aren't even with a top manager going to start winning multiple titles or winning the champions league that seems unrealistic, the champions league seems closed off between bayern, real madrid and barcelona and arguably even bayern are shut out of that equation.

It doesn't in anyway excuse Wenger, but football has been totally poisoned by money

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Why are you even talking about spending power or trying to manage fan expectations? Selassie was comparing Wenger’s response to Bayern’s when they were on the end of a beating to Barca and continued the discussion with Mastermind on how the embarrassment was their wake up call. Manager to infrastructure was changed to get them where they are now. This isn’t a discussion about money and the above post just backs up what Mastermind just said.

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I think a lot of fans think Arsenal are a smaller club than it actually is, the board plays off that.

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There has to be shift in fan mentality to go along with that. The defeatist attitude has to go. If we don’t demand more from the manager and board, they won’t feel any need to do the same with the manager and players. This goes way beyond finances.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

We could buy the players you mention with the cash in the bank,but that is another issue. the real issue, is they would never come. After our player debacles going back to Fabregas. No ambitious players will ever come. We have become a cautionary tale.

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We have cash in reserve and we could splash out once or twice (but we wouldn't be able to sign them because of the wage demands), chelsea, city and united can sign players like that season in and season out.

That will be the case when Wenger is gone.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Why are you even talking about spending power or trying to manage fan expectations? Selassie was comparing Wenger’s response to Bayern’s when they were on the end of a beating to Barca and continued the discussion with Mastermind on how the embarrassment was their wake up call. Manager to infrastructure was changed to get them where they are now. This isn’t a discussion about money and the above post just backs up what Mastermind just said.



There has to be shift in fan mentality to go along with that. The defeatist attitude has to go. If we don’t demand more from the manager and board, they won’t feel any need to do the same with the manager and players. This goes way beyond finances.

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We had this discussion six weeks ago, but just to remind you and so you don't think it's coming out of the blue. I made it abundantly clear that you asking me why I am posting on a subject would elicit the response of Go fuck yourself.

So Go fuck yourself.